"MJ won with centers on par with Travis knight, Greg foster and jelani Mccoy"

[John_Connor]

this is what people on here will say one minute to discredit kobe but the next minute to trash MJ they will say he had stacked teams

which one is it

https://i.ibb.co/1JjtVFT/Screenshot-20220416-090108-Gallery.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/4f1tX4F/Screenshot-20220416-090551-Gallery.jpg


this is why I hate talking hoops on here. guys that just watched box scores and were 5 or 10 years old talking about the kobe/shaq Lakers and guys who weren't even born yet talking MJs bulls


it's so damn annoying. you had to watch the games to know a guy like luc Longley was talented. he just didn't get many touches. he was very skilled. and cartwright was a former allstar big. they were infinitely better than jelani Mccoy, Travis knight ir Greg foster.

I might have to stop entertaining conversations about anything basketball related on her prior to the lebron era


https://youtu.be/q27fAO1emHM


https://youtu.be/US7VFL9cXTk


https://youtu.be/jJtJx9b-3nU


do people really think jordan does a half hour sit down interview about jelani Mccoy if he has his teammate? does jelani Mccoy get a documentary? does jelani Mccoy drop 24 points on the world champion bulls?

:biggums:

[John_Connor]

and not only did his front court have those guys. MJ also had Horace grant and Dennis Rodman. without those guys down there both cartwright and luc probly get a few more rebounds.. which is a good reason not to just look at box scores

[John_Connor]

*crickets*


:roll:

https://i.ibb.co/W21fqgq/Screenshot-20220416-111033-Chrome.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

Did you just spend 2 hours making this thread?

[1987_Lakers]

Imagine wasting so much time trying to convince us Longley & Cartwright were something to brag about. That's like someone trying to hype up Kurt Rambis or A.C. Green on the 80's Lakers.

MJ completely left out Longley in his documentary so he sat down and talked about him in an interview because of the backlash he received.

Longley has his own documentary because he is Australian, his country made the documentary, if he was American a documentary about him wouldn't exist.

[John_Connor]

Did you just spend 2 hours making this thread?

no but it took you 2 hours to grow a sack and respond. now address the issue. is jordan the goat and won all 6 titles with jelani Mccoy at center or did he have very talented decent centers that "lebron never had"

be careful how you answer this

[John_Connor]

Imagine wasting so much time trying to convince us Longley & Cartwright were something to brag about. That's like someone trying to hype up Kurt Rambis or A.C. Green on the 80's Lakers.

MJ completely left out Longley in his documentary so he sat down and talked about him in an interview because of the backlash he received.

Longley has his own documentary because he is Australian, his country made the documentary, if he was American a documentary about him wouldn't exist.

all I said was they were talented and decent cause you said that jordan won with Travis knight lowest tier centers. it's you who was trying to make a point by grabbing feces out of your ass and throwing them at the wall to see if they'd stick

I'm simply defending luc and Bill as quality starting centers


you're the moron in this situation

[ImKobe]

Imagine wasting so much time trying to convince us Longley & Cartwright were something to brag about. That's like someone trying to hype up Kurt Rambis or A.C. Green on the 80's Lakers.

MJ completely left out Longley in his documentary so he sat down and talked about him in an interview because of the backlash he received.

Longley has his own documentary because he is Australian, his country made the documentary, if he was American a documentary about him wouldn't exist.

It only makes MJ's GOAT case stronger. I think that's the point of OP's thread.

[RogueBorg]

In 1992-1993, Bill Cartwright was the worst starting center in the NBA.

.411 shooting
5.6 ppg
3.7 rpg
0.2 bpg

per36
.411 shooting
10.2 ppg
6.7 rpg
0.3 bpg

By comparison, Milwaukee's starting center Frank Brickowski's per36 (who most of you will say "Who?") He was a scrub
.545 shooting
19.3 ppg
7.0 rpg
0.8 bpg

You are right OP

[ShawkFactory]

no but it took you 2 hours to grow a sack and respond. now address the issue. is jordan the goat and won all 6 titles with jelani Mccoy at center or did he have very talented decent centers that "lebron never had"

be careful how you answer this

Literally don't care at all.

[John_Connor]

and LOL@ saying jordan leaving luc Longley out of the Netflix documentary proves he was nothing


no all that proved was luc never had a major f*ck up cause that's all he was bringing up about pippen and others he talked about you fool

:lol

[Axe]

Lmao if those centers were truly dominant, then they would have finals mvps like shaq did during his prime. Now stop lying to us muh boi.

[1987_Lakers]

all I said was they were talented and decent cause you said that jordan won with Travis knight lowest tier centers. it's you who was trying to make a point by grabbing feces out of your ass and throwing them at the wall to see if they'd stick

I'm simply defending luc and Bill as quality starting centers


you're the moron in this situation

I said they were bottom tier starting centers which is an absolute fact.

[John_Connor]

In 1992-1993, Bill Cartwright was the worst starting center in the NBA.

.411 shooting
5.6 ppg
3.7 rpg
0.2 bpg

per36
.411 shooting
10.2 ppg
6.7 rpg
0.3 bpg

By comparison, Milwaukee's starting center Frank Brickowski's per36 (who most of you will say "Who?") He was a scrub
.545 shooting
19.3 ppg
7.0 rpg
0.8 bpg

You are right OP

he was in there for mostly defense idiot lol. him and Horace grant locked up the paint

[ShawkFactory]

It only makes MJ's GOAT case stronger. I think that's the point of OP's thread.

No it isn't :lol

[1987_Lakers]

It only makes MJ's GOAT case stronger. I think that's the point of OP's thread.

No, he just got his pride hurt so he decided to make a thread about it.

[John_Connor]

No, he just got his pride hurt so he decided to make a thread about it.

you literally said luc Longley was the lowest rated center in the NBA

you were like 5 years old and only have box scores to go by while I watched the entire 2nd three peat


you dont have a leg to stand on. retire from basketball discussions prior to 2011 please. that's all you ever followed

[John_Connor]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.talkbasket.net/82759-acquisition-of-bill-cartwright-gave-bulls-a-vital-anchor%3famp=1

https://i.postimg.cc/9XKXYn2f/Screenshot-20220416-113939-Gallery.jpg


imagine anyone saying this after signing jelani Mccoy

:lol

[TheGoatest]

Center Brian Williams/Bison Dele played with the Bulls in 1996-97 as a bench warmer.

Here are his stats from the 1995-96 season, right before playing for the Bulls: 15.8 ppg on .543 and 7.6 rpg
Here are his stats from the 1997-98 season, right after playing for the Bulls: 16.2 ppg on .511 and 8.9 rpg

This is the type of player the 90s Bulls casually picked up to be a bench warmer, at their weakest/least stacked position.

[John_Connor]

Center Brian Williams/Bison Dele played with the Bulls in 1996-97 as a bench warmer.

Here are his stats from the 1995-96 season, right before playing for the Bulls: 15.8 ppg on .543 and 7.6 rpg
Here are his stats from the 1997-98 season, right after playing for the Bulls: 16.2 ppg on .511 and 8.9 rpg

This is the type of player the 90s Bulls casually picked up to be a bench warmer, at their weakest/least stacked position.

so you're saying jordan had stacked centers and front courts


wait. according to 1987lakers kobes a bum cause he couldn't win with jelani Mccoy, Travis knight and Greg foster and they were as good as any center jordan ever won with


1987lakers said Jordan's big men were the lowest tier bottom of the league trash


are you disagreeing with your brother?

[TheGoatest]

so you're saying jordan had stacked centers and front courts


wait. according to 1987lakers kobes a bum cause he couldn't win with jelani Mccoy, Travis knight and Greg foster and they were as good as any center jordan ever won with


1987lakers said Jordan's big men were the lowest tier bottom of the league trash


are you disagreeing with your brother?

I don't think anyone expected Kobe to win with his 2004-2008 rosters, but they definitely expected him (hailed as the next GOAT) to have better records and get out of the first round at the age of 26-27-28, which he didn't.

And speaking of Jelani McCoy...

https://images4.imagebam.com/6b/55/20/ME9E16M_o.png

:roll:

[RogueBorg]

he was in there for mostly defense idiot lol. him and Horace grant locked up the paint

The '93 version of Bill Cartwright was a terrible defender. Scott Williams and Will Perdue were both better on the defensive end. Both higher DWS, both higher DBPM, both higher BPG, there is nothing Cartwright has over his backups.

I stand by my statement, Cartwright was the worst starting center in 1992-1993.

[John_Connor]

The '93 version of Bill Cartwright was a terrible defender. Scott Williams and Will Perdue were both better on the defensive end. Both higher DWS, both higher DBPM, both higher BPG, there is nothing Cartwright has over his backups.

I stand by my statement, Cartwright was the worst starting center in 1992-1993.

well it's a good thing the bulls had soon to be allstar big man PF/C prime Horace grant by 93 huh

[3ba11]

The term "waste of space" was started with Cartwright and given to Longley as well

They're the original wastes of space

How many blocks did they average? What kind of rim protection did they offer compared to what everyone else in history had?

[tpols]

all I said was they were talented and decent cause you said that jordan won with Travis knight lowest tier centers. it's you who was trying to make a point by grabbing feces out of your ass and throwing them at the wall to see if they'd stick

I'm simply defending luc and Bill as quality starting centers


you're the moron in this situation

They clearly were below average center help especially given how stacked center was back then.... You re really bragging about luc longley?

[RogueBorg]

well it's a good thing the bulls had soon to be allstar big man PF/C prime Horace grant by 93 huh

Of course, Horace was good but he was the starting PF. I was 28 in the 1993 season living in Chicago, I watched those Bulls teams. Grant was good but he was primarily the starting PF. Their centers sucked big time. There was Cartwright, Perdue, Scott Williams, Grant could play center but the Bulls usually always had a traditional center in the game and left Grant at PF. Could you imagine what that Bulls teams would have looked like if they had a decent center. Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq would abuse our us at the center position. Grant was a good defender but he was too small to guard those big centers. We also had problems with Daugherty, Mourning, even Seikaly in Miami. Mutombo wasn't a scorer but the little we would get from that position was reduced almost nil against the good defensive centers. Don't you remember when Cartwright would go out and Wil Perdue would come into the game? He got abused by those guys too. Or God forbid when Stacy King had to play center. It was brutal man.

[RogueBorg]

The term "waste of space" was started with Cartwright and given to Longley as well

They're the original wastes of space

How many blocks did they average? What kind of rim protection did they offer compared to what everyone else in history had?

We had zero, zip, nada in the rim protection department. It's really amazing the Bulls won in that era of centers.

The top tier in '93
Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq

2nd tier
Daugherty, Mourning, Seikaly, Mutombo

3rd tier
Ellison, Smits, Parish, Divac

[ShawkFactory]

We had zero, zip, nada in the rim protection department. It's really amazing the Bulls won in that era of centers.

The top tier in '93
Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq

2nd tier
Daugherty, Mourning, Seikaly, Mutombo

3rd tier
Ellison, Smits, Parish, Divac

The true top tier was Robinson, Olajuwon, and Shaq.

You say it’s amazing they won in that era but who did they face other than Ewing? Until Rodman came they probably weren’t capable of winning a series against that big 3. They got lucky that Hakeem and Robinson were in the west.

[Kblaze8855]

I only glanced at the other topic and exited when I saw you comparing Luc to Pau Gasol with a “Not as good but…” kinda thing.

Luc was….ok I guess? Maybe better than someone who never heard of him might assume but nobody we would remember on any other team. He went to the Suns when they had Kidd and I’m not sure he did more than exist. And he couldn’t have been that old.

Not a player to have a whole argument about.

[RogueBorg]

The true top tier was Robinson, Olajuwon, and Shaq.

You say it’s amazing they won in that era but who did they face other than Ewing? Until Rodman came they probably weren’t capable of winning a series against that big 3. They got lucky that Hakeem and Robinson were in the west.

1st of all, you don't know if Chicago wasn't capable of beating your big three. Second, you're blaming the 1991-1993 Bulls because Houston and San Antonio couldn't make the Finals? Seems to me the blame should go to Houston and San Antonio, they're the ones that couldn't get out of their own conference. 3rd, Chicago beat the Western Conference representatives in the years those two couldn't make it. Lastly, Ewing was a great center, Hall of Famer, 11x All-Star, 75th Anniversary Team, don't slight him trying to make your weak-ass point.

[John_Connor]

I only glanced at the other topic and exited when I saw you comparing Luc to Pau Gasol with a “Not as good but…” kinda thing.

Luc was….ok I guess? Maybe better than someone who never heard of him might assume but nobody we would remember on any other team. He went to the Suns when they had Kidd and I’m not sure he did more than exist. And he couldn’t have been that old.

Not a player to have a whole argument about.

luc had every skill pau had but was obviously a lesser player. but he had the fundamentals. thats all i said.. he had less opportunities from playing in a dominant big man era. but believe me if luc Longleys prime coincided with the tail end of the big man era like paus did then he probly coulda put up 16-17ppg or so as number one option and lost just as much as Pau as lead dog in the playoffs.

unless you think Longley couldn't go 0-16

[ShawkFactory]

1st of all, you don't know if Chicago wasn't capable of beating your big three. Second, you're blaming the 1991-1993 Bulls because Houston and San Antonio couldn't make the Finals? Seems to me the blame should go to Houston and San Antonio, they're the ones that couldn't get out of their own conference. 3rd, Chicago beat the Western Conference representatives in the years those two couldn't make it. Lastly, Ewing was a great center, Hall of Famer, 11x All-Star, 75th Anniversary Team, don't slight him trying to make your weak-ass point.

Im not blaming anyone for anything. You said it was amazing that they won in an era with such great centers and my point was that they didn’t really have to go through any of them. That’s all.

[ShawkFactory]

luc had every skill pau had but was obviously a lesser player. but he had the fundamentals. thats all i said.. he had less opportunities from playing in a dominant big man era. but believe me if luc Longleys prime coincided with the tail end of the big man era like paus did then he probly coulda put up 16-17ppg or so as number one option and lost just as much as Pau as lead dog in the playoffs.

unless you think Longley couldn't go 0-16

Luv Longley would never be a lead dog.

[John_Connor]

Luv Longley would never be a lead dog.

he would on the grizzlies in the mid 2000s

[John_Connor]

luc longley > James posey 2003-04

[1987_Lakers]

he would on the grizzlies in the mid 2000s

He wasn't even a full time starter on a 60 loss team.

:lol

[John_Connor]

He wasn't even a lead dog on a 60 loss team.

:lol

luc longley > stromile swift

[ShawkFactory]

he would on the grizzlies in the mid 2000s

I mean..probably not.

But good to see you admit that those mid 2000s Grizzlies has an atrocious supporting cast.

[John_Connor]

I mean..probably not.

But good to see you admit that those mid 2000s Grizzlies has an atrocious supporting cast.

so you think James posey wouldn't dump it into luc on the block with the euro invasion starting up in the nba

agree to disagree I guess. I think guys like luc and kukoc were ahead of their time. so was sabonis. teams weren't ready to give a foreigner the lead dog role yet. aside from petrovic that's just how the nba was due to racism. even pippen trashed his coach for going to kukoc on a game winning shot play.


the only way luc longley doesn't start on that 03-04 grizzlies team and average 16ppg is if the other black players freeze him out

[tpols]

Luv Longley would never be a lead dog.

Pau was literally swept in every playoff series he ever played as lead dog. Couldn't even win a single game. Doesn't mean luc was as good he obviously wasn't but that's really not the argument to make. This thread is weird though. I'm not on 1987Lakers side by any means but this isn't a "gotcha" moment.

[John_Connor]

Pau was literally swept in every playoff series he ever played as lead dog. Couldn't even win a single game. Doesn't mean luc was as good he obviously wasn't but that's really not the argument to make. This thread is weird though. I'm not on 1987Lakers side by any means but this isn't a "gotcha" moment.

it's Steve aka 1987lakers trolling about Kobe having a losing record with Shaq injured between 2000 and 2002 with jelani Mccoy, Travis knight and Greg foster as shaqs backups and that 5'8 jew on disability saying that jordan didn't need anyone at center and he won titles woth jelani Mccoy level lowest tier bums at center so why couldn't kobe

and I explained to him that the bulls were great literally everywhere outside of the center spot and even there they had quality starting centers in bill and luc. they weren't lowest tier. they were average bigs

[ShawkFactory]

Pau was literally swept in every playoff series he ever played as lead dog. Couldn't even win a single game. Doesn't mean luc was as good he obviously wasn't but that's really not the argument to make. This thread is weird though. I'm not on 1987Lakers side by any means but this isn't a "gotcha" moment.

Sure it is. That someone would never be a lead dog while another is? Those Grizzlies casts were..not good. Who was the second be player? Mike Miller?

Longley still probably wouldn’t be the best player on the team and if he was, there’s no way they’re going to win 49-50 games in the west.

[tpols]

it's Steve aka 1987lakers trolling about Kobe having a losing record with Shaq injured between 2000 and 2002 with jelani Mccoy, Travis knight and Greg foster as shaqs backups and that 5'8 jew on disability saying that jordan didn't need anyone at center and he won titles woth jelani Mccoy level lowest tier bums at center so why couldn't kobe

and I explained to him that the bulls were great literally everywhere outside of the center spot and even there they had quality starting centers in bill and luc. they weren't lowest tier. they were average bigs

Yea I mean that is disingenuous on his part. Early 2000s Lakers were all shaq and Kobe. And shaq never even came close to winning anything until Kobe hit his prime. The late 90s Lakers had all star guard help outside kobe. Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. And shaq was getting swept with them.

[John_Connor]

Sure it is. That someone would never be a lead dog while another is? Those Grizzlies casts were..not good. Who was the second be player? Mike Miller?

Longley still probably wouldn’t be the best player on the team and if he was, there’s no way they’re going to win 49-50 games in the west.

and when did I say luc longley was Pau. I said he had all of paus skills to a slightly lesser degree. like good passes. not great ones. good mid range shooting. not great. he wasn't as agile. but he was more agile than some. I think he could average 16ppg as a starting big and lead Memphis to a near .500 record or slightly below it. they had a lot of ok to good players.


why is it so hard for people to just admit that luc longley was an average starting center with some skills and had a positive impact for Chicago


he wasn't jelani ****in mccoy

[Axe]

Yea I mean that is disingenuous on his part. Early 2000s Lakers were all shaq and Kobe. And shaq never even came close to winning anything until Kobe hit his prime. The late 90s Lakers had all star guard help outside kobe. Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. And shaq was getting swept with them.
Kobe never had any trip to the finals without phil jackson as his head coach while shaq had two without him.

[1987_Lakers]

it's Steve aka 1987lakers trolling about Kobe having a losing record with Shaq injured between 2000 and 2002 with jelani Mccoy, Travis knight and Greg foster as shaqs backups and that 5'8 jew on disability saying that jordan didn't need anyone at center and he won titles woth jelani Mccoy level lowest tier bums at center so why couldn't kobe

and I explained to him that the bulls were great literally everywhere outside of the center spot and even there they had quality starting centers in bill and luc. they weren't lowest tier. they were average bigs

Why you lying bro?


No, you said teams couldn't win without a Center and I pointed out how MJ did. Nowhere did I say MJ wins with that Lakers cast without Shaq. lmao.

[tpols]

Kobe never had any trip to the finals without phil jackson as his head coach while shaq had two without him.

He had riley, wade and penny outside Kobe and Phil lol. Along with a million other team hops ~ Nash, LeBron, and the Celtics. Shaq is low key one of the biggest team hoppers ever.

[John_Connor]

Kobe never had any trip to the finals without phil jackson as his head coach while shaq had two without him.

such a retarded statement. you act like kobe needed the triangle. it was the other guys that needed it lmao. and kobe broke the triangle all the time when he looked to score or facilitate. they only ran it when kobe was playing his decoy shit or went out

[John_Connor]

Why you lying bro?

why YOU lying BRO

you say you're not steve yet you run away every time I ask you what you do for a living.

[Axe]

He had riley, wade and penny outside Kobe and Phil lol. Along with a million other team hops ~ Nash, LeBron, and the Celtics. Shaq is low key one of the biggest team hoppers ever.
Shaq, who was drafted by the magic 30 years ago, was at least able to lead his original team to the finals. When did kobe ever managed to do that? Lmfao.

[Hey Yo]

Yea I mean that is disingenuous on his part. Early 2000s Lakers were all shaq and Kobe. And shaq never even came close to winning anything until Kobe hit his prime. The late 90s Lakers had all star guard help outside kobe. Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel. And shaq was getting swept with them.

Shaq won the 2000 title and FMVP before Kobe sniffed on becoming a star.

[Axe]

such a retarded statement. you act like kobe needed the triangle. it was the other guys that needed it lmao. and kobe broke the triangle all the time when he looked to score or facilitate. they only ran it when kobe was playing his decoy shit or went out
If that's true then why didn't he get to the finals with other coaches like scott, brown, d'antoni, etc.?

[1987_Lakers]

why YOU lying BRO

you say you're not steve yet you run away every time I ask you what you do for a living.

The fact that you have to turn a basketball discussion into "what do you do for a living" everytime you get upset really humors me. :lol

[John_Connor]

Shaq won the 2000 title and FMVP before Kobe sniffed on becoming a star.

shaq literally loses game 7 vs Portland and never wins that finals mvp and goes down as rhe biggest choker ever if kobe doesn't become a superstar over night and lead the team in points, rebounds, blocks and assists while shaq shits the bed down 15 in the most important game of his life

[tpols]

Shaq, who was drafted by the magic 30 years ago, was at least able to lead his original team to the finals. When did kobe ever managed to do that? Lmfao.

:biggums:

Kobe only played for the Lakers and led them to 3 Finals and 2 rings outside of shaq. Chico... what the f*ck are you smoking? I want some of it.... :lol

[1987_Lakers]

shaq literally loses game 7 vs Portland and never wins that finals mvp and goes down as rhe biggest choker ever if kobe doesn't become a superstar over night and lead the team in points, rebounds, blocks and assists while shaq shits the bed down 15 in the most important game of his life

Kobe literally loses game 7 vs Boston in 2010 if his teammates didn't bail him out and goes down as the worst game 7 performance ever.

[John_Connor]

The fact that you have to turn a basketball discussion into "what do you do for a living" everytime you get upset really humors me. :lol

a 3.5 hour discussion about luc longley and jelani Mccoy is irrelevant


what do you do for a living. just say anything. say gas station employee and you're on your laptop or phone all day. it's better than running and hiding every time cause you already said "millionaire semi retired investor" on your 8ball account


more like disabled retard message board administrator that collects government assistance and 3% ad revenue

that's why you're always trying to get 7 page threads about never ending useless shit out of me. cause you need the traffic. no sane human being could possibly be this obsessed with kobe naturally. you're worse than I ever was and I'm actually a fan of his and everyone knows I'm a spoiled trust fund kid

I have an excuse. what's yours

[John_Connor]

Kobe literally loses game 7 vs Boston in 2010 if his teammates didn't bail him out and goes down as the worst game 7 performance ever.

"kobe won them game 7. I just figured out how and it pisses me off" - rondo

[Hey Yo]

shaq literally loses game 7 vs Portland and never wins that finals mvp and goes down as rhe biggest choker ever if kobe doesn't become a superstar over night and lead the team in points, rebounds, blocks and assists while shaq shits the bed down 15 in the most important game of his life

Superstar overnight???

:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

"kobe won them game 7. I just figured out how and it passes me off" - rondo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4lTmal6JFQ&t

[John_Connor]

Superstar overnight???

:oldlol:

yeah game 7 vs Portland was kobes coming out party. he literally saved shaqs legacy. then again in game 4

those were the first glimpses of 2001 kobe

[John_Connor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4lTmal6JFQ&t

why do you keep ignoring my question. what do you do for a living. how is it you're here 24/7

you're 30


why di you care so much about forcing played out discussions every day to go 10 pages

why are you working so hard on here for more traffic


you're like a spam bot

[Kblaze8855]

luc had every skill pau had but was obviously a lesser player. but he had the fundamentals. thats all i said.. he had less opportunities from playing in a dominant big man era. but believe me if luc Longleys prime coincided with the tail end of the big man era like paus did then he probly coulda put up 16-17ppg or so as number one option and lost just as much as Pau as lead dog in the playoffs.

unless you think Longley couldn't go 0-16


There is so much wrong with that argument I can’t assume you are serious and don’t think I feel like participating in whatever has pushed you to the point of attempting it. There must be a personal conflict at play between you and whoever that was you talked about in the OP(I just skimmed it). I’ll leave you two to work that out.

[John_Connor]

tomorrow -" hey anyone wanna talk about the kobe shaq lakers" - 1987lakers

the day after that "shaq carried kobe. kobe sucks"

the day after that "kobe couldn't win with odom"

the day after that "here's kobes finals averages"

the day after that "2010 game 7. here's the same yougube clip showing gasols the real finals mvp"

next week "kobes 12th all time and soon to be out if the top 15"


next year "why couldn't kobe win when shaq got hurt"

next decade "I hate kobe and my life. don't ask me what I do for a living!!!! :mad:



:roll:

this is literally your last 15 years on here steve

[Axe]

:biggums:

Kobe only played for the Lakers and led them to 3 Finals and 2 rings outside of shaq. Chico... what the f*ck are you smoking? I want some of it.... :lol
Kobe wasn't even drafted by the lakers, you freaking buffoon. :oldlol:

I mean you can literally go check it out if you have a hard time believing it.

[John_Connor]

There is so much wrong with that argument I can’t assume you are serious and don’t think I feel like participating in whatever has pushed you to the point of attempting it. There must be a personal conflict at play between you and whoever that was you talked about in the OP(I just skimmed it). I’ll leave you two to work that out.

OK so what skill did luc longley not possess offensively other than the three ball


he did almost everything well. Pau did everything slightly better. how is saying this a stretch

[1987_Lakers]

There is so much wrong with that argument I can’t assume you are serious and don’t think I feel like participating in whatever has pushed you to the point of attempting it. There must be a personal conflict at play between you and whoever that was you talked about in the OP(I just skimmed it). I’ll leave you two to work that out.

:oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

OK so what skill did luc longley not possess offensively other than the three ball


he did almost everything well. Pau did everything slightly better. how is saying this a stretch


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrandSevereDiscus-size_restricted.gif

[John_Connor]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrandSevereDiscus-size_restricted.gif

you're a jordan Stan like 3ball so I know you wouldn't wanna admit luc longley was a skilled big man. you probly are 3ball... you're both black and nobodies ever seen you lol. only 2 hardcore jordan stans left on any message board. not that far fetched

[Hey Yo]

yeah game 7 vs Portland was kobes coming out party. he literally saved shaqs legacy. then again in game 4

those were the first glimpses of 2001 kobe

Kobe doesn't even sniff the 2000 WCF without Shaq.

[John_Connor]

:oldlol:

I literally just said he had every skill on offense like Pau minus the 3ball but in a lesser degree and that is irrefutable

I asked 3blazeball to list the things luc couldn't do other than that 3 ball and he drove away

I win

[John_Connor]

Kobe doesn't even sniff the 2000 WCF without Shaq.

duh. Ray Allen doesn't sniff the 2013 finals without lebron. but we both know who saved that series. same with the 2000 playoffs.... TWICE


kobe had 2 of his most historic performances at age 21


and shaq needed both or no ring


it's kinda funny how paus hyped up as finals mvp for having 1 great game when kobe struggled


but when kobe has 2 legendary games that are even better than paus game 7 kobe was still carried. odd

[Axe]

duh. Ray Allen doesn't sniff the 2013 finals without lebron. but we both know who saved that series. same with the 2000 playoffs.... TWICE


kobe had 2 of his most historic performances at age 21


and shaq needed both or no ring
Shaq was coachable at least. Kobe, otoh, was more chaotic in that regard. Which often led to conflicts with other members of the team and that included their superior zenmaster too.

[John_Connor]

Shaq was coachable at least. Kobe, otoh, was more chaotic in that regard. Which often led to conflicts with other members of the team and that included their superior zenmaster too.

shaq wasn't coachable at all. he cried to Phil when kobe was on his scoring streak in 2003 and said "if you don't feed the dog he won't guard the house"


he came into training camp out of shape and said "I heal on company time" ... he would cry in practice and fight with teammates. he hated doing running drills self admittedly while playing in Miami

he was insanely stubborn and lazy. how is that coachable?

[1987_Lakers]

I literally just said he had every skill on offense like Pau minus the 3ball but in a lesser degree and that is irrefutable

I asked 3blazeball to list the things luc couldn't do other than that 3 ball and he drove away

I win

You are basically Denzel in this scene, "I'm winning"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4adAAHa68

A defeated man claiming victory when it's obvious to everyone he's done with.

[John_Connor]

You are basically Denzel in this scene, "I'm winning"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4adAAHa68

A defeated man claiming victory when it's obvious to everyone he's done with.

what do you do for a living

[Axe]

shaq wasn't coachable at all. he cried to Phil when kobe was on his scoring streak in 2003 and said "if you don't feed the dog he won't guard the house"


he came into training camp out of shape and said "I heal on company time" ... he would cry in practice and fight with teammates. he hated doing running drills self admittedly while playing in Miami

he was insanely stubborn and lazy. how is that coachable?
https://emoji.gg/assets/emoji/2397-shrek-ahhuh.png

Anyway, that's true. Shaq may be lazy but i was talking more about the players' abilities to follow instructions from their coach with regards to team play and strategy. For example, conforming to the plays of the triangle with shaq as the team's focal point and there were times that kobe does unnecessary things like hogging the ball often or something like that.

[97 bulls]

Longley and Cartwright were solid centers. And they player their role to perfection. No they weren't Shaq or Olajuwan. But they weren't asked to be that.

[John_Connor]

Longley and Cartwright were solid centers. And they player their role to perfection. No they weren't Shaq or Olajuwan. But they weren't asked to be that.

it's obvious most posters here never watched the nba in the 90s. luc was very skilled. guys like 1987 Lakers were in diapers and kblaze is just a hardcore jordan stan that's sorta racist


I mean the guy gave Alonzo problems lmao


https://youtu.be/awncCd0Dops

another good vid


https://youtu.be/_byN6vF-Gfw

[3ba11]

Tristan Thompson > Longley

[John_Connor]

Tristan Thompson > Longley

I would say low IQ but you're a Homer like kblaze lol


Longley had every skill. Tristan had no skill. the end

[Baller789]

it's obvious most posters here never watched the nba in the 90s. luc was very skilled. guys like 1987 Lakers were in diapers and kblaze is just a hardcore jordan stan that's sorta racist


I mean the guy gave Alonzo problems lmao


https://youtu.be/awncCd0Dops

another good vid


https://youtu.be/_byN6vF-Gfw

Was very skilled? :roll:

They were decently skilled, but they weren't very skilled as you are alluding to which is pretty dishonest.

And I watched them both, they were average centers.

[John_Connor]

Was very skilled? :roll:

They were decently skilled, but they weren't very skilled as you are alluding to which is pretty dishonest.

And I watched them both, they were average centers.

yeah TODAY he would be an average center skill wise. but back in the 90s there was only a few guys in the league with all these offensive skills. most centers were just bruisers/athletes/strong/long/shot blockers/put back guys

he had sky hooks/ sweeping hooks/ banks/fades/passes/runners/dunks/no look passes/moved around easily/got up and down the court quickly


very underrated and ahead of his time IMO


https://youtu.be/jJtJx9b-3nU

[j3lademaster]

You are basically Denzel in this scene, "I'm winning"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4adAAHa68

A defeated man claiming victory when it's obvious to everyone he's done with.What a great scene.

[3ba11]

yeah TODAY he would be an average center skill wise. but back in the 90s there was only a few guys in the league with all these offensive skills. most centers were just bruisers/athletes/strong/long/shot blockers/put back guys

he had sky hooks/ sweeping hooks/ banks/fades/passes/runners/dunks/no look passes/moved around easily/got up and down the court quickly


very underrated and ahead of his time IMO


https://youtu.be/jJtJx9b-3nU


Longley averaged 9/5 and zero blocks in the "shaq" role of the triangle, which was an offense that fed the post multiple times each possession - everyone ran the same routes and received passes on the post including Kerr (equal-opportunity offense)

Phil Jackson hated Longley and thought he was a soft-ass bum that "couldn't get off his feet" or go up strong

[John_Connor]

What a great scene.

never saw the movie. it's definitely just for black people viewing and wannabe gangsters. I like Denzel in he got game, Eli and hurricane.. thats about it

[ShawkFactory]

never saw the movie. it's definitely just for black people viewing and wannabe gangsters. I like Denzel in he got game, Eli and hurricane.. thats about it

What the fvck are you :lol

[John_Connor]

What the fvck are you :lol

I only like movie characters with humility that try to correct their problems or have a cause that's higher than themselves so they give themselves up to God or the good of others. there needs to be a moral to the story. I find that most of Denzels characters come across as if he's just puffing his chest out and stroking his dick for 2 hours to sell a phoney narrative about being a strong alpha male confident smug gangster that black men want to live through. it's like an arnold movie for white people

[j3lademaster]

never saw the movie. it's definitely just for black people viewing and wannabe gangsters. I like Denzel in he got game, Eli and hurricane.. thats about itMan on Fire is my personal favorite Denzel movie, but I think most regard Training Day as his most iconic performance. You should give it a shot, it's a good movie.

[3ba11]

I only like movie characters with humility that try to correct their problems or have a cause that's higher than themselves so they give themselves up to God or the good of others. there needs to be a moral to the story. I find that most of Denzels characters come across as if he's just puffing his chest out and stroking his dick for 2 hours to sell a phoney narrative about being a strong alpha male confident smug gangster that black men want to live through. it's like an arnold movie for white people


Mostly whites watch Denzel or Training Day.. kind of like "Friday", which was a charachater of blacks for whites to consume

Blacks never needed Training Day to copy.. it's vice versa... due to slavery and it's impact over the last couple hundred years

[John_Connor]

Man on Fire is my personal favorite Denzel movie, but I think most regard Training Day as his most iconic performance. You should give it a shot, it's a good movie.

just watched the trailer for man on fire. like I said. it's arnold for black people. that's basically the story of commando but it's not his daughter and it's more realistic. hes a super hero. where's the inner flaws. he's not fixing himself. he's just saving the day.

[1987_Lakers]

never saw the movie. it's definitely just for black people viewing and wannabe gangsters. I like Denzel in he got game, Eli and hurricane.. thats about it

Wtf, that's like one of Denzel's best movies and best performance.

[John_Connor]

just watched the trailer for training day... I swear I saw that movie a year prior to its release

https://i.postimg.cc/5tHDr9VF/MV5-BYm-Jh-NWMy-OTUt-Zjgw-ZS00-Yzdj-LTk1-Mm-Mt-ODJl-OTEx-MDQ3-MDU5-Xk-Ey-Xk-Fqc-Gde-QXVy-NTAy-ODkw-OQ-V1.jpg

[John_Connor]

Wtf, that's like one of Denzel's best movies and best performance.

tough black cop with leather jacket that bends the rules and knows the streets. swears and acts like a badass. blends in with criminals. sorry that movie is called shaft and Samuel L Jackson beat him to it

[j3lademaster]

just watched the trailer for man on fire. like I said. it's arnold for black people. that's basically the story of commando but it's not his daughter and it's more realistic. hes a super hero. where's the inner flaws. he's not fixing himself. he's just saving the day.It sounds more like you're describing The Equalizer.

[jayfan]

this is what people on here will say one minute to discredit kobe but the next minute to trash MJ they will say he had stacked teams

which one is it




this is why I hate talking hoops on here. guys that just watched box scores and were 5 or 10 years old talking about the kobe/shaq Lakers and guys who weren't even born yet talking MJs bulls


it's so damn annoying. you had to watch the games to know a guy like luc Longley was talented. he just didn't get many touches. he was very skilled. and cartwright was a former allstar big. they were infinitely better than jelani Mccoy, Travis knight ir Greg foster.

I might have to stop entertaining conversations about anything basketball related on her prior to the lebron era




do people really think jordan does a half hour sit down interview about jelani Mccoy if he has his teammate? does jelani Mccoy get a documentary? does jelani Mccoy drop 24 points on the world champion bulls?




The bold, I agree with. And while Luc Longley was a notch above McCoy, that's not saying much. Fact is, he wasn't very good. Neither was Bill Wennington. Neither was Will Perdue.

Cartwright was ok for the first three, but Horace Grant was also just ok.

[John_Connor]

The bold, I agree with. And while Luc Longley was a notch up from McCoy, that's not saying much. Fact is, he wasn't very good. Neither was Bill Wennington. Neither was Will Perdue.

Cartwright was ok for the first three, but Horace Grant was also just ok.

so what did longley not do well. just curious. other than shooting 3 balls like I stated earlier. what was his flaw other than not being aggressive most of the time cause he played on one of the most dominant teams ever with jordan, pippen, kukoc, harper and Kerr with Rodman cleaning up every rebound. what negative impact did longley have. or did he just fill his role and step up whenever needed

[ShawkFactory]

tough black cop with leather jacket that bends the rules and knows the streets. swears and acts like a badass. blends in with criminals. sorry that movie is called shaft and Samuel L Jackson beat him to it

Training day has a little more depth than Shaft.

[3ba11]

so what did longley not do well. just curious. other than shooting 3 balls like I stated earlier. what was his flaw other than not being aggressive most of the time cause he played on one of the most dominant teams ever with jordan, pippen, kukoc, harper and Kerr with Rodman cleaning up every rebound. what negative impact did longley have. or did he just fill his role and step up whenever needed


Longley had deficits in every area - bad rebounding.. - bad offense.. bad defense

And none of the Bulls were go-to players - MJ is the only guy that never had a go-to teammate

[John_Connor]

Longley had deficits in every area - bad rebounding.. - bad offense.. bad defense

And none of the Bulls were go-to players - MJ is the only guy that never had a go-to teammate

I dunno. I said he was an average starting center that did a lot of things on offense well.

he was a 14/10 with 2 blocks player per 36 minutes when not sharing the court with Rodman. his rebounds went down to 8 a game per 36m with him. he averaged 46/47% on mid range jumpers and hooks. was never a clean up guy. that was Rodmans job. so it was about average. a solid free throw shooter. good passer. blocked shots. was a good defender and caused Alonzo all kinds of problems


I dont see the need to rip on the guy. he filled his role

[Kblaze8855]

tough black cop with leather jacket that bends the rules and knows the streets. swears and acts like a badass. blends in with criminals. sorry that movie is called shaft and Samuel L Jackson beat him to it

There are like 5 Shaft movies going back to the 70s and in only one of them is he a cop…and in that one he quits after like 10 minutes. Shaft is generally a private eye. The shaft you reference is the son of the original even though Samuel L Jackson is only like 5 years younger than the original Shaft. Denzel is a cop…but is not the protagonist of Training day. He’s the villain. And wasn’t designed to be likable. The white guy is the hero. Just a little black culture education for you since I know you don’t often dabble in such things.

[3ba11]

I dunno. I said he was an average starting center that did a lot of things on offense well.

he was a 14/10 with 2 blocks player per 36 minutes when not sharing the court with Rodman. his rebounds went down to 8 a game per 36m with him. he averaged 46/47% on mid range jumpers and hooks. was never a clean up guy. that was Rodmans job. so it was about average. a solid free throw shooter. good passer. blocked shots. was a good defender and caused Alonzo all kinds of problems


I dont see the need to rip on the guy. he filled his role


Longley was an absolutely all-round, wildly-sophisticated, DOMINANT big........

on the college or international level.. :confusedshrug:

On the NBA level, his best use was probably screen-setting or a poor man's Zydrunas pick-n-pop jumper

But I totally get your admiration of his game.. He had soft touch, skill, and could really play basketball... But again - that's against international or college comp.. In the league, he was a banger that Phil had to frequently chastise

[John_Connor]

There are like 5 Shaft movies going back to the 70s and in only one of them is he a cop…and in that one he quits after like 10 minutes. Shaft is generally a private eye. The shaft you reference is the son of the original even though Samuel L Jackson is only like 5 years younger than the original Shaft. Denzel is a cop…but is not the protagonist of Training day. He’s the villain. And wasn’t designed to be likable. The white guy is the hero. Just a little black culture education for you since I know you don’t often dabble in such things.

it seems too much like it glorifies being a gangster and people idolize denzels character when if it was a white guy they would rightfully humiliate someone like that. but instead they give him all the best lines and scenes cause it sells more cause black men idolize thugs and gangsters. it's not my cup of tea


for example. bad lieutenant makes nic cage look like a fool. that's how training day shoulda gone. people should laugh and mock people like Denzels character. not idolize them

[Kblaze8855]

The black people in the movie sided with the white cop against Denzel who was humiliated and ruined by it and that’s the famous scene he’s raging during. He’s mad at the black people all of which were walking away shaking their heads at how lame he was. Not that I expect your opinion on black anything to be informed.

[John_Connor]

The black people in the movie sided with the white cop against Denzel who was humiliated and ruined by it and that’s the famous scene he’s raging during. He’s mad at the black people all of which were walking away shaking their heads at how lame he was. Not that I expect your opinion on black anything to be informed.

so you're saying the scene that everyone loves so much about Denzel where he says "king Kong ain't got shit on me" is his most embarrassing moment in the film?

yikes

[j3lademaster]

so you're saying the scene that everyone loves so much about Denzel where he says "king Kong ain't got shit on me" is his most embarrassing moment in the film?

yikesYes. He's a desperate man trying very hard to put on a front in that scene. It's what makes it so brilliant and tough to pull off, but Denzel did an A+ job.

edit: I'm telling you, go watch the movie. The protagonist is played by Ethan Hawke, Denzel just kinda stole the show. It in no way glorifies "black street culture".

[John_Connor]

Yes. He's a desperate man trying very hard to put on a front in that scene. It's what makes it so brilliant and tough to pull off, but Denzel did an A+ job.

but people idolize that scene and act like it's a cool moment. even shaq was begging Denzel to do it again on tnt. it's like his highlight for the movie. it makes him look too proud and like some kind of lone wolf above everyone or something. like Tony Montana when he says "you need people like me. say goodnight to the bad guy"

that's not humiliating. neither are. they're glorified and emulated by wannabe thugs and gangsters. it's why so many immature lowlifes say scarface is their favorite movie. I bet training day is in their top 5 too.


https://youtu.be/Mi7kTTpDwTY


it's not brilliant. it's a catch phrase

[Kblaze8855]

so you're saying the scene that everyone loves so much about Denzel where he says "king Kong ain't got shit on me" is his most embarrassing moment in the film?

yikes

There are literally children and a grandma shaking heads and walking off ignoring him.

It being a famous and climactic scene doesn’t mean he was shown in a positive light.

He was a cop threatening to destroy a black neighborhood. You think black kids watched it like “I wanna be a traitorous cop who locks up blacks when I grow up!”.

In fact Denzel finally winning an Oscar in a role as someone hated was raised at the time. Jadakiss had a line that went “Why Halle had to let a white man pop her to get an Oscar. Why Denzel had to be crooked before he took it?”.

It was considered a great role as a scumbag lame. But as I said you don’t care about being informed. You have openly hated black people on multiple forums for a decade without bothering to learn anything about them you can’t Google and hand pick for a point. So I didn’t expect you to actually watch the movie. Just telling you how it went.

[John_Connor]

There are literally children and a grandma shaking heads and walking off ignoring him.

It being a famous and climactic scene doesn’t mean he was shown in a positive light.

He was a cop threatening to destroy a black neighborhood. You think black kids watched it like “I wanna be a traitorous cop who locks up blacks when I grow up!”.

In fact Denzel finally winning an Oscar in a role as someone hated was raised at the time. Jadakiss had a line that went “Why Halle had to let a white man pop her to get an Oscar. Why Denzel had to be crooked before he took it?”.

It was considered a great role as a scumbag lame. But as I said you don’t care about being informed. You have openly hated black people on multiple forums for a decade without bothering to learn anything about them you can’t Google and hand pick for a point. So I didn’t expect you to actually watch the movie. Just telling you how it went.

I never said he was shown in a positive light. I see right through it. he was shown in a thuggish cool alpha way that young thugs look up to. they wanna be the "bad guy" and look/talk like Denzel. it shows strength and confidence. he has zero humility in defeat. it's black Tony Montana. maybe you see it differently than most but if you're a fan of Denzel it's hard to hate any character of his. that's why it's a poor choice. he's a hero among the black community and was forever their token academy award possibility. it's impossible to root against him. Denzel could literally rape women in a movie and people like shaq would still ask him to say the lines from the movie.. "say ima rape you b*tch!" ..."ahhaa that's a good line Denzel. I love that movie.."


a better choice for that role would be someone like Cuba Gooding Jr. he can be liked and then in an instant be hated and look pathetic when needed. people can go either way with him

[97 bulls]

Longley was an absolutely all-round, wildly-sophisticated, DOMINANT big........

on the college or international level.. :confusedshrug:

On the NBA level, his best use was probably screen-setting or a poor man's Zydrunas pick-n-pop jumper

But I totally get your admiration of his game.. He had soft touch, skill, and could really play basketball... But again - that's against international or college comp.. In the league, he was a banger that Phil had to frequently chastise
My only issue with Longley was that he had a tendency to go up soft and blow layups. Layups that should've been dunks. That alone costs him 4 points a night roughly. But he was perfect for what the Bulls needed. He was an excellent mid range shooter. Had size, good passer out of the Triangle, good low post moves, and a serviceable defender. He was even good at running the floor.