We were told Ingraham was better than Tatum

[RRR3]

:roll::roll::roll:

[post]

supposedly booker is better than paul

https://c.tenor.com/udq1uD9WHSQAAAAC/oops.gif

[k 96]

Brandon will bounce back next game.

[3ba11]

:no: ... Ingram lost a year to Lebron-ball, so they're on the same level when you factor that lost season of development

[outofstomach]

i was told you’ve never had sex with a woman

[Wally450]

Shit, there were people on Reddit saying they’d take Cade Cunningham over Tatum. :roll:

[RRR3]

d-DUHHHHHHHHHHH-uhhh-uhhh
:biggums:

[3ba11]

18/5 is prime Pippen caliber, so Ingram played like trash - McColllum isn't Jordan, so Ingram will need to play much better than peak Pippen to win

We expect Ingram to average 25-30 on great efficiency as the alpha clutch dog - aka far superior than Pippen ever played..

[RRR3]

Duhhhhhh huhhhhhh duRrrrrrrrr
:facepalm

[Spurs m8]

Bron stans are so fvcking weird.

Why do they have vendettas against all his ex team mates....honestly the shittest fanbase in all of sports

All they do is knock down others, to try and boost LeFailure

[iamgine]

It's true though. At one point Ingram was better than Tatum.

[ImKobe]

Bron stans are so fvcking weird.

Why do they have vendettas against all his ex team mates....honestly the shittest fanbase in all of sports

All they do is knock down others, to try and boost LeFailure

This. And Tatum's playing the Nets' "defense" while BI is playing the Suns. Tatum didn't look too hot against Phoenix this season either when he had 24 pts on 25 shots.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This. And Tatum's playing the Nets' "defense" while BI is playing the Suns. Tatum didn't look too hot against Phoenix this season either when he had 24 pts on 25 shots.
And what about the entire rest of the season where he averaged 27 points?

Really this topic was unnecessary though. Tatum vs Ingram is beating a dead horse. And that horse is very dead.

[ImKobe]

And what about the entire rest of the season where he averaged 27 points?

Really this topic was unnecessary though. Tatum vs Ingram is beating a dead horse. And that horse is very dead.

They're pretty close statistically over the last 3 seasons. BI's at 23/6/5 vs Tatum's 26/8/4, both are around 57%TS. Tatum had a crazy run post-ASB but Ingram's also a winning player as it showed this year when the Pels struggled without him while they were 29 - 26 with him on the court and he got them into the Playoffs. Tatum's playing for one of the best franchises in the league and has a #2 star while BI is playing for one of the 3 worst franchises of the last 20 years and his star teammate has been out all season. CJ is a decent #2 too but he's no Zion. I'd say the horse is still very much alive. Tatum could lose in the 1st round this year as well.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Tatums path is actually pretty underrated. He has made multiple conference finals, led reg season and playoffs in defensive win shares. 22/7/4 for playoff career and 27/9/5 in his last 23 games. Clearly a hall of fame path even if he retired right now has a better career then a guy like grant hill.

But now Tatum is starting to hit his peak years where hes a scary top 3 defender and top 5-8ish offensive player. So he's basically the best player in the game if he can put together a finals run. I'm surprised his advanced BPM/win share stats are not better but maybe they will go crazy in his mid 20s I don't know

Even when you compare Tatum to someone like lebron james he's holding his own.

LeBron James end of his 23 year old playoff run: 1267 points

Jayson Tatum was 23 this season: right now he has 1109 points

Ingram is an all-star but Tatum is generational. Unless I'm getting ahead of myself but that's what its starting to look like. Time will tell if this trajectory is true.

[ImKobe]

Tatums path is actually pretty underrated. He has made multiple conference finals, led reg season and playoffs in defensive win shares. 22/7/4 for playoff career and 27/9/5 in his last 23 games. Clearly a hall of fame path even if he retired right now has a better career then a guy like grant hill.

But now Tatum is starting to hit his peak years where hes a scary top 3 defender and top 5-8ish offensive player. So he's basically the best player in the game if he can put together a finals run. I'm surprised his advanced BPM/win share stats are not better but maybe they will go crazy in his mid 20s I don't know

Even when you compare Tatum to someone like lebron james he's holding his own.

LeBron James end of his 23 year old playoff run: 1267 points

Jayson Tatum was 23 this season: right now he has 1109 points

Ingram is an all-star but Tatum is generational. Unless I'm getting ahead of myself but that's what its starting to look like. Time will tell if this trajectory is true.

Tatum might have a higher ceiling but tbh he's more like a Paul George than a Kawhi as a 2-way player at least right now, still a very good player but he just hasn't been able to play at that elite level for a full season. He was drafted to Boston with all that talent around him and a great coach and he hasn't made that superstar leap yet in the Playoffs.

Tatum has become a great volume 3PT shooter while BI is a killer in the mid-range and has more potential as a playmaker. It's closer than people would like to admit. Tatum has been a little better this year but BI was right there with him the last two seasons when his 3 was falling.

[Real Men Wear Green]

They're pretty close statistically over the last 3 seasons. BI's at 23/6/5 vs Tatum's 26/8/4, both are around 57%TS. Tatum had a crazy run post-ASB but Ingram's also a winning player as it showed this year when the Pels struggled without him while they were 29 - 26 with him on the court and he got them into the Playoffs. Tatum's playing for one of the best franchises in the league and has a #2 star while BI is playing for one of the 3 worst franchises of the last 20 years and his star teammate has been out all season. CJ is a decent #2 too but he's no Zion. I'd say the horse is still very much alive. Tatum could lose in the 1st round this year as well.
Again with the "last 3 seasons." So did Tatum peak when he was 21? That is an irrelevant and terrible argument. We are talking about players that are still young and developing. Why wouldn't Tatum average 27 and 8 next year? The only reason his assist number (4) might change is the fact that he's making better decisions and so could average more with all the doubles. Ingram is a good player but how is he a "winning" player when he has made the playoffs once in his career in a team that only had the 9th best record in its conference? They are about to get swept and have no business in the playoffs. He has lost more games than he won. That's not "winning." I was noeven going to bring up wins and losses because it's just more beating off the dead horse and between these two is almost unfair. You should just be happy with the good player Ingram is and not concern yourself with how he stacks up to Tatum. This is only going to get worse.

[ImKobe]

Again with the "last 3 seasons." So did Tatum peak when he was 21? That is an irrelevant and terrible argument. We are talking about players that are still young and developing. Why wouldn't Tatum average 27 and 8 next year? The only reason his assist number (4) might change is the fact that he's making better decisions and so could average more with all the doubles. Ingram is a good player but how is he a "winning" player when he has made the playoffs once in his career in a team that only had the 9th best record in its conference? They are about to get swept and have no business in the playoffs. He has lost more games than he won. That's not "winning." I was noeven going to bring up wins and losses because it's just more beating off the dead horse and between these two is almost unfair. You should just be happy with the good player Ingram is and not concern yourself with how he stacks up to Tatum. This is only going to get worse.

We're going to act as if there's no argument when the two have been damn near identical production-wise for years now. Tatum went up a level in the 2nd half of this season after a bad start and we're going to act as if there's no way Ingram couldn't improve his game at 24.

BI has the tools to be an elite player, just like JT. JT is more athletic and is the better defensive player but Ingram's mid-range numbers are damn near elite and his 3-Point shooting was on par with JT the previous 2 seasons and he can actually play point and be really good at it. I don't see a gap between the two where it's not an argument. JT had the better season so I'm not going to argue against that but I wouldn't be surprised if BI goes up a level next year when his team is actually healthy for once.

And I'm not the one who started this thread, or the one who is constantly bringing up BI and bringing up the old Tatum vs Ingram arguments from when both were starting out in the league. I'm merely responding to the anti-Laker trolls who want BI to fail because he was once a teammate of Lebron's. It doesn't really matter which one is better if they're playing on two opposite Conferences and don't meet in the Finals, I just don't like the Ingram hate on this board and the people who bring up Tatum's success to discredit his play. And I'm not calling you an anti-Laker troll but OP obviously has a hard-on for making a thread every time BI has an off night.

[CelticBaller]

Tatum is undoubtedly better than Ingram

[PeroAntic]

It's closer than people would like to admit.

This. Tatum is great but so is Ingram.

[bobopenguin]

It's true though. At one point Ingram was better than Tatum.

when tho?
was ingram ever a leader of a team?

[coin24]

We were told OP is a transman that gets its soytits milked by its uncle

[Kblaze8855]

We're going to act as if there's no argument when the two have been damn near identical production-wise for years now.

I don’t imagine there is an argument anywhere. Tatum would win that poll anywhere. He might well win it in New Orleans. Classic “Who hangs up” situation. The Pelicans listen to a Tatum for BI offer and probably take it. The Celtics would hang up without even waiting to see what sweeteners might be added. I feel like you know that’s true even if you feel it shouldn’t be.

[Nb1]

Ingram was part of the Lakers worst 5 yr stretch in history (12th worst all time) and worst team at the NBA before Lebron came. He should have stayed with Lebron, then maybe he could have developped into a better player.

[ShawkFactory]

We're going to act as if there's no argument when the two have been damn near identical production-wise for years now. Tatum went up a level in the 2nd half of this season after a bad start and we're going to act as if there's no way Ingram couldn't improve his game at 24.

BI has the tools to be an elite player, just like JT. JT is more athletic and is the better defensive player but Ingram's mid-range numbers are damn near elite and his 3-Point shooting was on par with JT the previous 2 seasons and he can actually play point and be really good at it. I don't see a gap between the two where it's not an argument. JT had the better season so I'm not going to argue against that but I wouldn't be surprised if BI goes up a level next year when his team is actually healthy for once.

And I'm not the one who started this thread, or the one who is constantly bringing up BI and bringing up the old Tatum vs Ingram arguments from when both were starting out in the league. I'm merely responding to the anti-Laker trolls who want BI to fail because he was once a teammate of Lebron's. It doesn't really matter which one is better if they're playing on two opposite Conferences and don't meet in the Finals, I just don't like the Ingram hate on this board and the people who bring up Tatum's success to discredit his play. And I'm not calling you an anti-Laker troll but OP obviously has a hard-on for making a thread every time BI has an off night.

Yes.

[SouBeachTalents]

You know what the most insane thing is, ImKobe is legitimately only arguing this because Ingram played 30 games with LeBron 3 years ago :lol And he really is as dishonest as 3ball in his arguments, bringing up the last 3 years when Tatum has undoubtedly surpassed Ingram as a player over the past 2 seasons.

[RRR3]

They're pretty close statistically over the last 3 seasons. BI's at 23/6/5 vs Tatum's 26/8/4, both are around 57%TS. Tatum had a crazy run post-ASB but Ingram's also a winning player as it showed this year when the Pels struggled without him while they were 29 - 26 with him on the court and he got them into the Playoffs. Tatum's playing for one of the best franchises in the league and has a #2 star while BI is playing for one of the 3 worst franchises of the last 20 years and his star teammate has been out all season. CJ is a decent #2 too but he's no Zion. I'd say the horse is still very much alive. Tatum could lose in the 1st round this year as well.
They are not close check the impact stats you moron.

[RRR3]

You know what the most insane thing is, ImKobe is legitimately only arguing this because Ingram played 30 games with LeBron 3 years ago :lol And he really is as dishonest as 3ball in his arguments, bringing up the last 3 years when Tatum has undoubtedly surpassed Ingram as a player over the past 2 seasons.
Literally all his posts can be explained by the fact that he’s mad LeBron surpassed Kobe.

[Wally450]

Yes.

Lol. :lol

[ImKobe]

I don’t imagine there is an argument anywhere. Tatum would win that poll anywhere. He might well win it in New Orleans. Classic “Who hangs up” situation. The Pelicans listen to a Tatum for BI offer and probably take it. The Celtics would hang up without even waiting to see what sweeteners might be added. I feel like you know that’s true even if you feel it shouldn’t be.

All I'm saying is that it's closer than people here make it out to be. Didn't I already say that Tatum is better this season? It wasn't a clear-cut argument the last two years. BI is a valuable player himself but obviously Tatum's stock is a little higher at this moment, I'm not arguing against that.

It would win a poll on ISH just because of how many pro-Lebron posters would downplay BI's level of play as evidenced in this thread, the people who are actually serious about this would say it's pretty damn close because Tatum is not on a level where he's undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league just yet. You can live in the moment and act like JT is a top 5 player and a superstar but he hasn't done enough to solidify that argument just yet.

[ShawkFactory]

All I'm saying is that it's closer than people here make it out to be. Didn't I already say that Tatum is better this season? It wasn't a clear-cut argument the last two years. BI is a valuable player himself but obviously Tatum's stock is a little higher at this moment, I'm not arguing against that.

It would win a poll on ISH just because of how many pro-Lebron posters would downplay BI's level of play as evidenced in this thread, the people who are actually serious about this would say it's pretty damn close because Tatum is not on a level where he's undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league just yet. You can live in the moment and act like JT is a top 5 player and a superstar but he hasn't done enough to solidify that argument just yet.

No but I think it's pretty clear that he's solidified himself in the top 10.

[ImKobe]

They are not close check the impact stats you moron.

Pels are 29 - 26 (31 - 27 if you include the play in & the first game of the Playoffs) with BI and are 7 - 20 without him this season. He has by far the best on/off numbers (+8.1) among major rotation players on his team. Both the ORTG & DRTG numbers are considerably better when he's on the court. The impact is there. Tatum's net rating is even better in Boston but I'm not here to debate BI over JT, just that they're both great young forwards and we shouldn't pretend that one is that far apart from the other.

They're not very similar as players either so it's difficult to evaluate which player is really better or who's game will age better, though I'm obviously more biased towards the player with the unstoppable mid-range shot and BI has shown that for multiple seasons now while also developing into a solid point forward.

[SouBeachTalents]

Last 2 seasons

Tatum: 27/8/4 58%TS 21.5 PER .154 WS/48 4.4 BPM 8.1 VORP

Ingram: 23/5/5 57%TS 18.9 PER .110 WS/48 2.1 BPM 4.1 VORP

You'd have to have a clear bias to argue Tatum isn't the decisively better player right now.

[ImKobe]

No but I think it's pretty clear that he's solidified himself in the top 10.

Probably with some of the guys falling off and Ingram's about 10-12 spots behind him based on this season, so I don't think that's a very significant gap overall. I can't be bothered getting further into this and responding to every argument that comes after one of these guys has a bad Playoff game but they're both very good and aren't at their apex yet, it will get more interesting down the line when they're 26-27 years old and hitting their peaks.


Both could improve their games a lot to take that next step. Ingram's had some nice 3PT shooting seasons but he could be more aggressive from the perimeter and not take as many contested mid-range shots while Tatum could improve his game inside the arc, where he's struggled the past few seasons and has moved away from taking as many of those shots. He's taking more 3s now but he could be a far more lethal scorer if he had the ability to consistently knock down some 2s when the defenses are giving him that shot in the Playoffs.

[RRR3]

Last 2 seasons

Tatum: 27/8/4 58%TS 21.5 PER .154 WS/48 4.4 BPM 8.1 VORP

Ingram: 23/5/5 57%TS 18.9 PER .110 WS/48 2.1 BPM 4.1 VORP

You'd have to have a clear bias to argue Tatum isn't the decisively better player right now.
ImSniveling will ignore this

[ImKobe]

Last 2 seasons

Tatum: 27/8/4 58%TS 21.5 PER .154 WS/48 4.4 BPM 8.1 VORP

Ingram: 23/5/5 57%TS 18.9 PER .110 WS/48 2.1 BPM 4.1 VORP

You'd have to have a clear bias to argue Tatum isn't the decisively better player right now.


Even this year BI's at 33/9/8 per 100 poss to Tatum's 37/11/6
BI was the more efficient scorer the last 2 seasons and Tatum's a little better this year as BI has not attempted or made as many 3s. BI gets to the line at a slightly higher rate as well.

Tatum's better right now but not by a WIDE margin where his stats scream "superstar". He's top 10 while BI is around the 20 spot. That's pretty fair if you ask me.

[Kblaze8855]

All I'm saying is that it's closer than people here make it out to be. Didn't I already say that Tatum is better this season? It wasn't a clear-cut argument the last two years. BI is a valuable player himself but obviously Tatum's stock is a little higher at this moment, I'm not arguing against that.

It would win a poll on ISH just because of how many pro-Lebron posters would downplay BI's level of play as evidenced in this thread, the people who are actually serious about this would say it's pretty damn close because Tatum is not on a level where he's undoubtedly a top 5 player in the league just yet. You can live in the moment and act like JT is a top 5 player and a superstar but he hasn't done enough to solidify that argument just yet.



What moment should be lived in if not the one we are…living in?

Why am I supposed to be talking about years ago? Besides Tatum was all NBA two years ago and has gotten better since. He’d be taken by whatever group of people you could think to ask for years. Tatum has been a significant player for 3 years. BI is obviously a good player just on that next level. Like Stackhouse vs Pierce, Vince, or Ray back in the day. They might all do 22-25 or more but one is not like the others. You can call it “close” if that makes you feel better but it’s close like 4 is close to 6. Close but no real argument which is more.

I just hate that so many guys who played with our holy troll/hater trinity get sucked into eternal proxy arguments they have nothing to do with.

Isiah Thomas played like 200 minutes with Lebron and I bet BI started 35 games with him. Pau played like 17-18 years and I think 5 with Kobe. I saw a George Gervin topic turn into “And Jordan couldn’t win with this guy?” and it’s all so…I don’t even know. I don’t have the word.

Sucks so many guys can’t have their own lives and legacy independent of random guys they have a cup of coffee with because that guys fans and haters have to turn them to weapons.

I promise I can’t make an Antawn Jamison 50 point back to back topic without hearing about the 2010 Cavs when he was approaching washed.

Neither side is innocent and it shows no sign of stopping. Disrespectful of most of these guys really. Work your whole life for fans to turn you into a tool to use for or against someone you knew for 8 months.

[ImKobe]

What moment should be lived in if not the one we are…living in?

Why am I supposed to be talking about years ago? Besides Tatum was all NBA two years ago and has gotten better since. He’d be taken by whatever group of people you could think to ask for years. Tatum has been a significant player for 3 years. BI is obviously a good player just on that next level. Like Stackhouse vs Pierce, Vince, or Ray back in the day. They might all do 22-25 or more but one is not like the others. You can call it “close” if that makes you feel better but it’s close like 4 is close to 6. Close but no real argument which is more.

I just hate that so many guys who played with our holy troll/hater trinity get sucked into eternal proxy arguments they have nothing to do with.

Isiah Thomas played like 200 minutes with Lebron and I bet BI started 35 games with him. Pau played like 17-18 years and I think 5 with Kobe. I saw a George Gervin topic turn into “And Jordan couldn’t win with this guy?” and it’s all so…I don’t even know. I don’t have the word.

Sucks so many guys can’t have their own lives and legacy independent of random guys they have a cup of coffee with because that guys fans and haters have to turn them to weapons.

I promise I can’t make an Antawn Jamison 50 point back to back topic without hearing about the 2010 Cavs when he was approaching washed.

Neither side is innocent and it shows no sign of stopping. Disrespectful of most of these guys really. Work your whole life for fans to turn you into a tool to use for or against someone you knew for 8 months.

Agreed with the latter but BI was also close to that All-NBA level the year Tatum was selected, you can look at the numbers and they're all really close. Tatum didn't improve last year and their numbers were really close again.

I just can't get there with the "next level" talk overall when prior to the Celtics' run the last 40 or so games they had played .500 ball for over a calendar year with Tatum struggling on offense for long stretches. I need a little more consistency from him on offense to start putting him on the level of guys like Luka or Booker. He hasn't made a significant jump statistically to warrant that kind of a response. I'll just leave it at that.

[Kblaze8855]

Someone somewhere thinks everything. My little cousin still think Carmelo in the 80s would be Michael, Magic, and Bird. He named his son Karmelo believe it or not(he’s a Laker fan for the record). You thinking he needs to do more to be a star means precisely dick. The sports world already decided.

Where in that hierarchy he sits is debatable but the nba universe has him in it. BI might get there. He’s young. But Tatum is there to the people no matter what some contrarian individuals might feel about it.

[Akeem34TheDream]

I think Jaylen Brown vs Brandon Ingram is a better comparison.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

[r0drig0lac]

Even this year BI's at 33/9/8 per 100 poss to Tatum's 37/11/6
BI was the more efficient scorer the last 2 seasons and Tatum's a little better this year as BI has not attempted or made as many 3s. BI gets to the line at a slightly higher rate as well.

Tatum's better right now but not by a WIDE margin where his stats scream "superstar". He's top 10 while BI is around the 20 spot. That's pretty fair if you ask me.

Fair.
I still believe Ingram has the biggest ceilling between the two, although their ceilling is basically the same (first team, top 5), I can't see either of them being considered the best player in the league.

[PeroAntic]

Ingram would score as much as Tatum if he was a Celtic, and Tatum would score as much as Ingram if he was a Pelican. Tatum rebounds a bit better, Ingram is a better playmaker. Tatum is slightly better on defense, but Boston as a unit makes him better.

People acting like these two are in a different league are having a laugh. They are as close as it gets, right now Tatum has the edge but there is no final verdict.

[ShawkFactory]

Here's my top 25 or so right now. I just created this now so it might be flawed and I don't know what to do with Kawhi, AD, Lillard, PG, and Klay so I didn't include them. I'm also ordering by tiers of 5 and not really in order within the tiers.

Jokic
Embiid
KD
Giannis
Luka

Steph
Booker
Lebron
Tatum
Harden

Trae
Kyrie
Ja
Butler
CP3

Gobert
Mitchell
Towns
Ayton
Bam

Jrue
VanVleet
Sabonis
Allen
Siakem

That was hard.

Ingram is kind of on that tier with Siakem and Sabonis. You could make an argument that he's in the top 25 with them but you could also make the argument that he isn't.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's true though. At one point Ingram was better than Tatum.


Nahh.

[Kblaze8855]

Here's my top 25 or so right now. I just created this now so it might be flawed and I don't know what to do with Kawhi, AD, Lillard, PG, and Klay so I didn't include them. I'm also ordering by tiers of 5 and not really in order within the tiers.

Jokic
Embiid
KD
Giannis
Luka

Steph
Booker
Lebron
Tatum
Harden

Trae
Kyrie
Ja
Butler
CP3

Gobert
Mitchell
Towns
Ayton
Bam

Jrue
VanVleet
Sabonis
Allen
Siakem

That was hard.

Ingram is kind of on that tier with Siakem and Sabonis. You could make an argument that he's in the top 25 with them but you could also make the argument that he isn't.


I actually did one in my head earlier to see if BI would be in it. He was but reading your list I realized I forgot several so he’d slide out. And I think I’d take Brown over about 4 of your list.

[SouBeachTalents]

Here's my top 25 or so right now. I just created this now so it might be flawed and I don't know what to do with Kawhi, AD, Lillard, PG, and Klay so I didn't include them. I'm also ordering by tiers of 5 and not really in order within the tiers.

Jokic
Embiid
KD
Giannis
Luka

Steph
Booker
Lebron
Tatum
Harden

Trae
Kyrie
Ja
Butler
CP3

Gobert
Mitchell
Towns
Ayton
Bam

Jrue
VanVleet
Sabonis
Allen
Siakem

That was hard.

Ingram is kind of on that tier with Siakem and Sabonis. You could make an argument that he's in the top 25 with them but you could also make the argument that he isn't.
Not trying to nitpick, but genuinely curious, do you have Booker as a clear top 10, and definitively better than Morant, Kyrie, Trae, Mitchell etc.

And assuming you maybe just didn't think of them, would DeRozan, Lavine or LaMelo make your list?

[3ba11]

Not trying to nitpick, but genuinely curious, do you have Booker as a clear top 10, and definitively better than Morant, Kyrie, Trae, Mitchell etc.

And assuming you maybe just didn't think of them, would DeRozan, Lavine or LaMelo make your list?


Booker has optimal size, fundamentals and position (off-guard), so his team ceilings (chemistry, brand of ball) are higher than ball-dominant shrimps like Trae Young or Ja..

But Mitchell is the prize and I might take him over Booker.. Infact, I would take Mitchell over Booker (barring health concerns) - Mitchell would instantly be a champion with a modicum of scoring help

[ShawkFactory]

Not trying to nitpick, but genuinely curious, do you have Booker as a clear top 10, and definitively better than Morant, Kyrie, Trae, Mitchell etc.

And assuming you maybe just didn't think of them, would DeRozan, Lavine or LaMelo make your list?

Yea it was just off the top so I knew there'd be a few I'd miss. I wouldn't have Lamelo in the top 25 yet to be honest I don't think he's quite consistent enough. Derozan would probably be in the top end of the 16-20 tier. Lavine in the back of the top 25 maybe. Could probably kick out Allen and Siakem then but idk. I'd probably throw Brown in there too.

Trae and Ja could easily been in the top 10. Booker is probably at the lower end of the top 10 for me but it's arguable and certainly not definitive.

[NBAGOAT]

Booker has optimal size, fundamentals and position (off-guard), so his team ceilings (chemistry, brand of ball) are higher than ball-dominant shrimps like Trae Young or Ja..

But Mitchell is the prize and I might take him over Booker.. Infact, I would take Mitchell over Booker (barring health concerns) - Mitchell would instantly be a champion with a modicum of scoring help

utah has plenty of scoring help, they're an offense first team. You just dont see it because none of the other guys are all stars. He's also more ball dominant than booker by quite a bit so no idea why you call him a prize.

[NBAGOAT]

Yea it was just off the top so I knew there'd be a few I'd miss. I wouldn't have Lamelo in the top 25 yet to be honest I don't think he's quite consistent enough. Derozan would probably be in the top end of the 16-20 tier. Lavine in the back of the top 25 maybe. Could probably kick out Allen and Siakem then but idk. I'd probably throw Brown in there too.

Trae and Ja could easily been in the top 10. Booker is probably at the lower end of the top 10 for me but it's arguable and certainly not definitive.

I will throw out some other names but yes ranking guys is really tough this year. Dejounte murray, vanvleet(arguably better than siakam), bam, garland, and healthy draymond

[ShawkFactory]

I will throw out some other names but yes ranking guys is really tough this year. Dejounte murray, vanvleet(arguably better than siakam), bam, garland, and healthy draymond

My next few after my top 25 would probably be garland, dray (could probably be in the top 25), middleton, ingram, and lamelo.

[NBAGOAT]

My next few after my top 25 would probably be garland, dray (could probably be in the top 25), middleton, ingram, and lamelo.

damn it missed bam and vanvleet in your list. I'll only say murray was pretty good this year

[Spurs m8]

Lakers could have had both lmao

[Taurus]

I swear people only talk about Ingram cause he used to be on the Lakers. He's six seasons into his career and has a grand total of one all-star appearance and zero winning seasons. Hell, this "playoff appearance" is kind of a fluke cause PG had to miss the play-in game.

[Spurs m8]

I swear people only talk about Ingram cause he used to be on the Lakers. He's six seasons into his career and has a grand total of one all-star appearance and zero winning seasons. Hell, this "playoff appearance" is kind of a fluke cause PG had to miss the play-in game.

Yeah but he hasn't exactly had great help...for the most part

[Taurus]

Yeah but he hasn't exactly had great help...for the most part

Yeah he's definitely had bad luck in terms of supporting casts and injuries, but I still can't see what really separates him from other second/third tier NBA players. Like forget Tatum, is he really that much better than say Jaylen Brown?

[3ba11]

AND????..... :kobe:... :whatever:

[ShawkFactory]

AND????..... :kobe:... :whatever:

What do you mean “and”?

Tatum is still better :lol

[3ba11]

What do you mean “and”?

Tatum is still better :lol


Tatum had more time and opportunity to break out, whereas this is Ingram's first opportunity and he's showing that he's on the same tier

Shaq said it well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2b6yuwhRg&t=07m35s


Heck, Kyrie got the 18' Celtics a good seed so rookie Tatum had an opportunity in the playoffs

[ShawkFactory]

Tatum had more time and opportunity to break out, whereas this is Ingram's first opportunity and he's showing that he's on the same tier

Shaq said it well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3x2b6yuwhRg&t=07m35s

He was awful in game 1 and great in game 2. Relax

If this continues? Maybe. Although Tatum being much stronger defensively will always make him the better player, even if they are comparable on offense. Which they aren't at all right now.

Tatum just had a standard game the other night and scored like 33. That's what you expect from him. The fact that you have to come in a bump this thread after 37 from Ingram kind of proves my point.

[tpols]

Tatum is better but Ingram just had a monster game in his 2nd playoff game. Its pretty clear you guys underestimated him.

[Wally450]

The Pels had to win 2 playoff games just to make the playoffs. They're lucky they aren't sitting at home. Congrats on taking one from the Suns though...

[ShawkFactory]

Tatum is better but Ingram just had a monster game in his 2nd playoff game. Its pretty clear you guys underestimated him.

Nobody said that he wasn't good.

[tpols]

The Pels had to win 2 playoff games just to make the playoffs. They're lucky they aren't sitting at home. Congrats on taking one from the Suns though...

Ingram was awesome in those two games. He put up 29/6/5 on 60% shooting. That's not helping your case.

[ImKobe]

Ingram was awesome in those two games. He put up 29/6/5 on 60% shooting. That's not helping your case.

And saying the Pels were in the Play In and needed two big games from him just to make it to the POs just shows you how good of a player he actually is because they were HORRIBLE without him. The same guys who argue the Lakers' record without Bran to make a case for him as the "MVP" are the ones ignoring how the Pels are 7 - 20 without BI on the season, and BI outplayed Bran H2H twice to get the Pels into the Play In.

[Jay-B]

LOL only to think how bad the Pelicans wanted Kuzma instead of Ingram in the Anthony Davis trade. The Lakers could of had a big 3 of Lebron AD and Ingram and would of never worried about the Westbrook mess

[Real Men Wear Green]

Kyrie got the 18' Celtics a good seed so rookie Tatum had an opportunity in the playoffs
You're either lying or ignorant. I would say both. The Celtics had the same winning percentage with Irving as they did without him and Irving missed 15 games and the entire postseason.

[RRR3]

Snivelball and his lapdogs pretending Ingram had any chance in this series is pathetic.

[Axe]

Ingram was awesome in those two games. He put up 29/6/5 on 60% shooting. That's not helping your case.
Yep, that's 'rich mans pippen' for you who has yet to lead his team to the finals. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

If I remember right it was AirTupac who started this nonsense. I don't like the comparison because it makes people talk about Ingram as if he is garbage.

Ingram is a good player just not as good as Tatum, maybe a tier below him.

[PeroAntic]

Ingram is a very good player.

[RRR3]

Ingram is a very good player.
He is but Tatum is a great player. Levels to this shit.

[1987_Lakers]

Ingram is very good, but Tatum is on another level.

[Wally450]

I think we're done here.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If I remember right it was AirTupac who started this nonsense. I don't like the comparison because it makes people talk about Ingram as if he is garbage.

Ingram is a good player just not as good as Tatum, maybe a tier below him.

It's unfair to Ingram. Very good player that will have himself a good career make a lot of money msg even win a ring or two of he's lucky and sticks around long enough. Both being Duke guys I bet him and Tatum are friends or at least very respectful of one another. No need to continue this non-rivalry. They go head to head twice a year at most and usually one of them is out.

[ImKobe]

BI against an elite Suns' defense - 30/8/5 66.3%TS through 3 games so far. Are we sure he's a level below Tatum?

[Real Men Wear Green]

BI against an elite Suns' defense - 30/8/5 66.3%TS through 3 games so far. Are we sure he's a level below Tatum?

Well he could be two levels below Tatum. I suppose it depends on what you define as a level.

[RRR3]

Well he could be two levels below Tatum. I suppose it depends on what you define as a level.
:lol

[Kblaze8855]

BI against an elite Suns' defense - 30/8/5 66.3%TS through 3 games so far. Are we sure he's a level below Tatum?


Thats not how any of this works. It doesn’t even work that way vs the same team. Richard Jefferson had a better series vs the 04 Pistons than Kobe. That’s not even information worth knowing. It’s entirely possible the best and second best player on every team the Celtics play the rest of the playoffs do better than KDs 22/5 on 30 whatever shooting with almost 7 turnovers a game. Won’t make all of them Kevin Durant.

“Level” isn’t something you easily determine in 120 minutes. Individual playoff series numbers are too easily skewed to make a big deal of determining something like that.

[ShawkFactory]

Thats not how any of this works. It doesn’t even work that way vs the same team. Richard Jefferson had a better series vs the 04 Pistons than Kobe. That’s not even information worth knowing. It’s entirely possible the best and second best player on every team the Celtics play the rest of the playoffs do better than KDs 22/5 on 30 whatever shooting with almost 7 turnovers a game. Won’t make all of them Kevin Durant.

“Level” isn’t something you easily determine in 120 minutes. Individual playoff series numbers are too easily skewed to make a big deal of determining something like that.

To be fair you’re talking to people who are convinced that a series is going to be a sweep when the home team wins decisively in game 1.

[ShawkFactory]

BI against an elite Suns' defense - 30/8/5 66.3%TS through 3 games so far. Are we sure he's a level below Tatum?

You don’t have to die on this hill.

[ImKobe]

You don’t have to die on this hill.

What? I thought BI wasn't any good? How did he carry the Pels to the POs and is going off against the best team in the league?

[1987_Lakers]

Thats not how any of this works. It doesn’t even work that way vs the same team. Richard Jefferson had a better series vs the 04 Pistons than Kobe. That’s not even information worth knowing. It’s entirely possible the best and second best player on every team the Celtics play the rest of the playoffs do better than KDs 22/5 on 30 whatever shooting with almost 7 turnovers a game. Won’t make all of them Kevin Durant.

“Level” isn’t something you easily determine in 120 minutes. Individual playoff series numbers are too easily skewed to make a big deal of determining something like that.

:cheers:

[ImKobe]

Thats not how any of this works. It doesn’t even work that way vs the same team. Richard Jefferson had a better series vs the 04 Pistons than Kobe. That’s not even information worth knowing. It’s entirely possible the best and second best player on every team the Celtics play the rest of the playoffs do better than KDs 22/5 on 30 whatever shooting with almost 7 turnovers a game. Won’t make all of them Kevin Durant.

“Level” isn’t something you easily determine in 120 minutes. Individual playoff series numbers are too easily skewed to make a big deal of determining something like that.

Ok?

Pels are like a 20 win team without him this season while they're above .500 when he plays. He also went off in both Play In elimination games.

Y'all gonna need him to win a chip before giving him any credit? How much does he need to do?

[8Ball]

Thats not how any of this works. It doesn’t even work that way vs the same team. Richard Jefferson had a better series vs the 04 Pistons than Kobe. That’s not even information worth knowing. It’s entirely possible the best and second best player on every team the Celtics play the rest of the playoffs do better than KDs 22/5 on 30 whatever shooting with almost 7 turnovers a game. Won’t make all of them Kevin Durant.

“Level” isn’t something you easily determine in 120 minutes. Individual playoff series numbers are too easily skewed to make a big deal of determining something like that.

You are throwing pearls before swine kblaze.

[ShawkFactory]

What? I thought BI wasn't any good? How did he carry the Pels to the POs and is going off against the best team in the league?

What? It’s about being an Tatums level.

Jayson Tatum is currently head to head outplaying Kevin Durant. By a good bit.

The hill is you thinking that Ingram is currently on his level.

[ImKobe]

What? It’s about being an Tatums level.

Jayson Tatum is currently head to head outplaying Kevin Durant. By a good bit.

The hill is you thinking that Ingram is currently on his level.

So Tatum is playing a much worse defensive team and is shooting worse than BI. Got it.

It's only 3 games for BI, but Tatum's 3 games mean something because he's playing a worse team that has KD on it, who's being defended by 2-3 guys?

[ShawkFactory]

So Tatum is playing a much worse defensive team and is shooting worse than BI. Got it.

It's only 3 games for BI, but Tatum's 3 games mean something because he's playing a worse team that has KD on it, who's being defended by 2-3 guys?

Well it’s not really about the 3 games. You’re the one who brought up BI being on Tatums level because of it.

When Tatum has been better all year.

But now that you mention the 3 games, Tatums primary defensive assignment...is Kevin Durant. You’re arguing shooting percentages in a 3 game sample but ignoring that Ingram doesn’t have to guard the best scorer in the world during it. And guess what? He’s doing a damn good job defensively.

[ImKobe]

Well it’s not really about the 3 games. You’re the one who brought up BI being on Tatums level because of it.

When Tatum has been better all year.

But now that you mention the 3 games, Tatums primary defensive assignment...is Kevin Durant. You’re arguing shooting percentages in a 3 game sample but ignoring that Ingram doesn’t have to guard the best scorer in the world during it. And guess what? He’s doing a damn good job defensively.

Bro, I've been talking about BI being on Tatum's level for years here, I was on this before the POs started this year too.

Tatum is not shutting down KD 1 on 1 here, it's a team effort by the Celtics. They're guarding him with multiple defenders to shut off the paint and not allow him to even get a decent look off from mid-range. Tatum's made some great plays on D for sure but it's a result of what the C's do as a team, he's not the best defensive player on his own team. I've given him credit for his play this season so don't take it as a slight, but to completely ignore BI because "it's only x games" while we're hyping up Tatum in the same stretch is BS.

[CelticBaller]

Tatum plays both elite offense and defense stop it

[ImKobe]

BI is a better offensive player. Elite mid-range (Tatum sucks from mid-range), better playmaking and a higher Free Throw Rate. Tatum is closer to Paul George on offense while Ingram's more like a Kawhi or a Durant with his offensive skillset.

[ShawkFactory]

Bro, I've been talking about BI being on Tatum's level for years here, I was on this before the POs started this year too.

Tatum is not shutting down KD 1 on 1 here, it's a team effort by the Celtics. They're guarding him with multiple defenders to shut off the paint and not allow him to even get a decent look off from mid-range. Tatum's made some great plays on D for sure but it's a result of what the C's do as a team, he's not the best defensive player on his own team. I've given him credit for his play this season so don't take it as a slight, but to completely ignore BI because "it's only x games" while we're hyping up Tatum in the same stretch is BS.

I didn’t say that. But he’s the primary. That’s inarguable.

Who’s Ingram guarding? Crowder?

[ImKobe]

I didn’t say that. But he’s the primary. That’s inarguable.

Who’s Ingram guarding? Crowder?

Doesn't matter. I'm not arguing the defensive ability here. There's a big enough gap in their offensive skillset that the defensive side of things make them equal level players. That's the point. Go look at the shooting splits/FT rate for both players through the last 3 years and tell me I'm wrong on that end. I'm not arguing that BI is the better player either, but he's playing at a similar level overall up until this point. Tatum can have a deep Playoff run here and come out looking a lot stronger with how good Boston is overall but right now it's a closer race between the two than ISH would admit.

[ShawkFactory]

Doesn't matter. I'm not arguing the defensive ability here. There's a big enough gap in their offensive skillset that the defensive side of things make them equal level players. That's the point. Go look at the shooting splits/FT rate for both players through the last 3 years and tell me I'm wrong on that end. I'm not arguing that BI is the better player either, but he's playing at a similar level overall up until this point. Tatum can have a deep Playoff run here and come out looking a lot stronger with how good Boston is overall but right now it's a closer race between the two than ISH would admit.
I feel like the true colors are showing and you actually believe that Ingram and Tatum are about the same. What the fvck dude..

Are you just being a contrarian for fun?

[ImKobe]

I feel like the true colors are showing and you actually believe that Ingram and Tatum are about the same. What the fvck dude..

Are you just being a contrarian for fun?

Have they not been about the same for 3 damn years here? Where's the significant gap in their production or their impact on winning that would prove me otherwise? BI elevated a 20-win team to the Playoffs this year, while Tatum elevated a decent team to a very good one and both are playing at the same level in the POs thus far. Both also had great net rating numbers on the season, Tatum's are obviously higher because he's playing on a better team. I watch both of them and I don't see a gap either way to put one over the other as of right now.

[ShawkFactory]

Have they not been about the same for 3 damn years here? Where's the significant gap in their production or their impact on winning that would prove me otherwise? BI elevated a 20-win team to the Playoffs this year, while Tatum elevated a decent team to a very good one and both are playing at the same level in the POs thus far. Both also had great net rating numbers on the season, Tatum's are obviously higher because he's playing on a better team. I watch both of them and I don't see a gap either way to put one over the other as of right now.

Ok.

[tontoz]

This year Tatum has been decisively better than Ingram. Tatum averages more points on better efficiency and is a better defender.

Not to mention the fact that Tatum played 21 more games. Their advanced stats aren't close.

[3ba11]

This year Tatum has been decisively better than Ingram. Tatum averages more points on better efficiency and is a better defender.

Not to mention the fact that Tatum played 21 more games. Their advanced stats aren't close.


Tatum had more years to develop his team

and Ingram is averaging 30/8/5 on 66% TS versus a far superior opponent in these playoffs

So they're absolutely comparable

[NBAGOAT]

Tatum had more years to develop his team

and Ingram is averaging 30/8/5 on 66% TS versus a far superior opponent in these playoffs

So they're absolutely comparable

Are the suns vastly superior without Booker for half the series so far? If you put out Kyrie/kd against cp3/ayton/bridges ik you and most of this forum are picking bkn to dominate

[LeCola]

Tatum led his team to 2nd place on his conference. He played 53 playoff games in 5 seasons, he was mostly first option of his team on those 53 games.

Ingram finally attend playoffs from playin on his 6th season, he has only 3 playoff games.

They are clearly on different levels. Comparing them is just disrespecting Tatum.

If you compare players with RS stats you could also say:

Wesbrook is GOAT PG.

Lebron is on his prime.

Lowry and Derozan were a great duo etc.

[ShawkFactory]

Just for the people who are going to bring the numbers up after 3 games here:

Ingram: 23/6/6, 55 TS%, 18.7 PER, .099 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 1.9 VORP, 122nd in RAPTOR

Tatum: 27/8/4, 58 TS%, 21.8 PER, .169 WS/48, 4.9 BPM, 4.8 VORP, 6th in RAPTOR

The fvck are we talking about.

[RRR3]

Just for the people who are going to bring the numbers up after 3 games here:

Ingram: 23/6/6, 55 TS%, 18.7 PER, .099 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 1.9 VORP, 122nd in RAPTOR

Tatum: 27/8/4, 58 TS%, 21.8 PER, .169 WS/48, 4.9 BPM, 4.8 VORP, 6th in RAPTOR

The fvck are we talking about.
Ouch :lol

[Shooter]

Just for the people who are going to bring the numbers up after 3 games here:

Ingram: 23/6/6, 55 TS%, 18.7 PER, .099 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 1.9 VORP, 122nd in RAPTOR

Tatum: 27/8/4, 58 TS%, 21.8 PER, .169 WS/48, 4.9 BPM, 4.8 VORP, 6th in RAPTOR

The fvck are we talking about.

Body • bagged

[PeroAntic]

Just for the people who are going to bring the numbers up after 3 games here:

Ingram: 23/6/6, 55 TS%, 18.7 PER, .099 WS/48, 2.0 BPM, 1.9 VORP, 122nd in RAPTOR

Tatum: 27/8/4, 58 TS%, 21.8 PER, .169 WS/48, 4.9 BPM, 4.8 VORP, 6th in RAPTOR

The fvck are we talking about.

The biggest gap is ppg, but if you count the two more apg Ingram has it makes it equal. Which is basically the argument here; Tatum if hes better than Ingram then he is only marginally. Advanced stats don't take into account context or the eye test, Ingram is playing in a much weaker team and his impact on that team is bigger, and he has more variety and skill than Tatum on offense, a lot more when you add playmaking. Tatum is a better defender, but a lot of this is due to the Cs as a defensive unit.

[ShawkFactory]

The biggest gap is ppg, but if you count the two more apg Ingram has it makes it equal. Which is basically the argument here; Tatum if hes better than Ingram then he is only marginally. Advanced stats don't take into account context or the eye test, Ingram is playing in a much weaker team and his impact on that team is bigger, and he has more variety and skill than Tatum on offense, a lot more when you add playmaking. Tatum is a better defender, but a lot of this is due to the Cs as a defensive unit.

Stopped reading there.

[Charlie Sheen]

Stopped reading there.


He has the right argument, but he has it backwards. Ingram's impact stats should increase when he's running with Zion on a better pels team. That's a role where he will provide more impact even at lower usage. Like an even better version of Lamar Odom. He could probably max out in the perfect situation an draw comparison to Manu.

Tatum is clearly the better player. Impact stats paint an unfair picture of BI because he's placed in a role that's not the best fit for him on the Pels team.

[ShawkFactory]

He has the right argument, but he has it backwards. Ingram's impact stats should increase when he's running with Zion on a better pels team. That's a role where he will provide more impact even at lower usage. Like an even better version of Lamar Odom. He could probably max out in the perfect situation an draw comparison to Manu.

Tatum is clearly the better player. Impact stats paint an unfair picture of BI because he's placed in a role that's not the best fit for him on the Pels team.

I'm definitely aware that impact stats are often influenced by the surroundings but when it's that drastic I think it's worth noting. SGA ranks higher with all of those and his team is worse.

On a grander scale, for me it's kind of like arguing Tmac vs Kobe in the early 2000s. You could argue that the talent/skill level was comparable, but Kobe was more well-rounded and played on a different level.

[tpols]

This thread isn't aging well. Ingram is dominating the playoffs.

[3ba11]

This thread isn't aging well. Ingram is dominating the playoffs.


It's because Lebron fans admire inferior skillsets like spotty-shooting, athletic-based ball-dominators instead of pure shooting pure scorers like Ingram

[Charlie Sheen]

I'm definitely aware that impact stats are often influenced by the surroundings but when it's that drastic I think it's worth noting. SGA ranks higher with all of those and his team is worse.

On a grander scale, for me it's kind of like arguing Tmac vs Kobe in the early 2000s. You could argue that the talent/skill level was comparable, but Kobe was more well-rounded and played on a different level.

To be fair, I wasn't implying you didn't know how advanced stats worked. I quoted you because I didn't want to have a conversation with Pero.:lol

[tpols]

It's because Lebron fans admire inferior skillsets like spotty-shooting, athletic-based ball-dominators instead of pure shooting pure scorers like Ingram

Ingram is averaging 30/7/5 on 51/50/88 shooting.That's like a prime Kobe or Wade line. (better actually) I didn't even know he was that good of a shooter. This guy might become a Durant level superstar.

[ImKobe]

Ingram is averaging 30/7/5 on 51/50/88 shooting.That's like a prime Kobe or Wade line. (better actually) I didn't even know he was that good of a shooter. This guy might become a Durant level superstar.

His mid-range numbers have been getting better with each season. The 3PT shooting is the only real aberration right now, but he's only averaging 4.0 3PA in the Playoffs, the mid-range numbers are pretty godly but they're not that far off from what he averaged in the RS this year, so most of that is sustainable. He's going to keep evolving and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the moment where he takes that leap, though the Zion piece is still an issue because it clearly affected BI's play last year.

[NBAGOAT]

His mid-range numbers have been getting better with each season. The 3PT shooting is the only real aberration right now, but he's only averaging 4.0 3PA in the Playoffs, the mid-range numbers are pretty godly but they're not that far off from what he averaged in the RS this year, so most of that is sustainable. He's going to keep evolving and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the moment where he takes that leap, though the Zion piece is still an issue because it clearly affected BI's play last year.

Leap to all-nba? Zion even with his issues is still such an offensive talent, going take away some volume from Ingram but his efficiency will go up tbf. Think it’s easier said than done. Either Ingram becomes the best player on the team(don’t think zion will be all-nba yet) or the pels become a legit contender with two all-nba guys and cj and other pieces

[Akeem34TheDream]

I think Ingram gained some weight this year. He doesn't look fragile to me anymore.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's kind of amazing that Tatum can be having the series he is having vs the preseason favorite and one of the 5 best to ever play their position yet some of you can act like the playoffs have somehow improved Ingram's case. You guys don't give up. It's almost adnirable... but not really.

[SouBeachTalents]

It's kind of amazing that Tatum can be having the series he is having vs the preseason favorite and one of the 5 best to ever play their position yet some of you can act like the playoffs have somehow improved Ingram's case. You guys don't give up. It's almost adnirable... but not really.
What's insane to me is they're going to be at this the rest of Ingram's career because he played 30 games with LeBron when he was 21 years old :lol

[ImKobe]

It's kind of amazing that Tatum can be having the series he is having vs the preseason favorite and one of the 5 best to ever play their position yet some of you can act like the playoffs have somehow improved Ingram's case. You guys don't give up. It's almost adnirable... but not really.

A team that was a pre-season favorite with James Harden, who they replaced with two role players and a cheerleader.

Ingram's putting up the better numbers against a much better defensive team, but somehow it doesn't improve his case at all. It's not like BI hasn't played 6 Playoff games in a row with the Play In and hasn't been ****ing amazing in 5 of them, nope. Can't give him any credit for putting up 30 a game on the #3 defensive team with Crowder & Bridges (who was a DPOY candidate) guarding him, nope.

[ImKobe]

What's insane to me is they're going to be at this the rest of Ingram's career because he played 30 games with LeBron when he was 21 years old :lol

Yeah, because Ingram wasn't a Laker for 3 seasons.. We're watching all these Pels games because of Lebron. We didn't talk about BI or BI vs Tatum before Lebron was a Laker. Got it.

[tpols]

It's kind of amazing that Tatum can be having the series he is having vs the preseason favorite and one of the 5 best to ever play their position yet some of you can act like the playoffs have somehow improved Ingram's case. You guys don't give up. It's almost adnirable... but not really.

Its cute you think Tatum has it easier playing a terrible defense as a 2 seed while Ingram is playing a top defense on a 10 seed.

[Real Men Wear Green]

A team that was a pre-season favorite with James Harden, who they replaced with two role players and a cheerleader.

Ingram's putting up the better numbers against a much better defensive team, but somehow it doesn't improve his case at all. It's not like BI hasn't played 6 Playoff games in a row with the Play In and hasn't been ****ing amazing in 5 of them, nope. Can't give him any credit for putting up 30 a game on the #3 defensive team with Crowder & Bridges (who was a DPOY candidate) guarding him, nope.

Which one of them is the primary defender on Kevin Durant? Which one is going had to head with one of the greatest players in the history of the game and dominating that match up?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Its cute you think Tatum has it easier playing a terrible defense as a 2 seed while Ingram is playing a top defense on a 10 seed.

Tell me which Sun is a tougher match up than KD. Ingram can defend Durant? And do that defensive task while leading his teams offense?

Tatum will be first team All-NBA. Ingram will not be All-NBA. And you guys will have your hands up in the air wondering "why, why? "

[ShawkFactory]

Which one of them is the primary defender on Kevin Durant? Which one is going had to head with one of the greatest players in the history of the game and dominating that match up?

It's astounding that this continues to be ignored.

People only like context when it favors them.

[ImKobe]

Which one of them is the primary defender on Kevin Durant? Which one is going had to head with one of the greatest players in the history of the game and dominating that match up?

You're acting as if Tatum's just locking KD down 1 on 1, when in reality there's a 2nd defender coming his way if he holds onto the ball for too long. Yes, I've seen the tweet about the 27 minutes when Tatum's guarding KD "1 on 1".

Nets are playing 3-4 small guys out there at a time. JT can pick any mismatch he wants, whether it's Kyrie, Mills, Dragic etc. He was lowkey struggling in Game 3 as well and was scoreless in the 4th, until the Nets brought in Blake Griffin, who had played like 85 minutes total since the ASB and of course Tatum & Brown both instantly attacked him on D and got it going.

[tpols]

Tell me which Sun is a tougher match up than KD. Ingram can defend Durant? And do that defensive task while leading his teams offense?

Tatum will be first team All-NBA. Ingram will not be All-NBA. And you guys will have your hands up in the air wondering "why, why? "

I've agreed Tatum is better but Ingram has surprised me. I had no idea he was such a smooth dribbler and shooter at that height. He's basically Durant jr.

Tatum also isn't guarding KD in isolation. The Celtics are doubling the shit out of him and throwing the whole sink at Durant.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You're acting as if Tatum's just locking KD down 1 on 1, when in reality there's a 2nd defender coming his way if he holds onto the ball for too long. Yes, I've seen the tweet about the 27 minutes when Tatum's guarding KD "1 on 1".

Nets are playing 3-4 small guys out there at a time. JT can pick any mismatch he wants, whether it's Kyrie, Mills, Dragic etc. He was lowkey struggling in Game 3 as well and was scoreless in the 4th, until the Nets brought in Blake Griffin, who had played like 85 minutes total since the ASB and of course Tatum & Brown both instantly attacked him on D and got it going.

What superstar doesn't get defended by multiple defenders? Of course he gets helped. Tatum is still doing a great job vs one of the greatest scorers of all time. He is a failed challenge away from having blocked KDs shot head to head three games in a row. Three playoff games in a row. Can you think of anyone else to ever do that two games in a row? I bet you can't but if you do come up with a name or won't be Brandon.

And then you complain that the Celtics exploit mismatches. Which team doesn't do that? Celtics are going to continue to force and then exploit mismatches so you will have plenty of useless arguments as to why this isn't a joke of an argument.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Ingram is extremely underrated and like a young Durant.

But not as good as a two way player as Tatum no way.

[NBAGOAT]

Ingram is extremely underrated and like a young Durant.

But not as good as a two way player as Tatum no way.

this will trigger you a bit. Ingram could turn out to be as good as prime paul george. tatum could turn out to be as good as prime kawhi

[1987_Lakers]

Tatum wins

[RRR3]

Tatum wins
ImSniveling with another night of tears.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

this will trigger you a bit. Ingram could turn out to be as good as prime paul george. tatum could turn out to be as good as prime kawhi

Exactly.

Ingram will be tracy mcgrady but Tatum is Kobe

Not really an insult to Ingram

[Taurus]

Ingram is averaging 30/7/5 on 51/50/88 shooting.That's like a prime Kobe or Wade line. (better actually) I didn't even know he was that good of a shooter. This guy might become a Durant level superstar.

Did you really just say Brandon Ingram, a 24 year old, whose career high is 23.8 on 46% might become a Durant level player off of one playoff series?

KD's career low is 25.1, which was on a stacked Warriors roster. He also shot 53% that season.

A KD level player would not be six years into his career and have a grand total of ZERO winning seasons.

[ShawkFactory]

Did you really just say Brandon Ingram, a 24 year old, whose career high is 23.8 on 46% might become a Durant level player off of one playoff series?

KD's career low is 25.1, which was on a stacked Warriors roster. He also shot 53% that season.

A KD level player would not be six years into his career and have a grand total of ZERO winning seasons.

When KD was Ingram's age he'd already won 3 scoring titles.

[SouBeachTalents]

Did you really just say Brandon Ingram, a 24 year old, whose career high is 23.8 on 46% might become a Durant level player off of one playoff series?

KD's career low is 25.1, which was on a stacked Warriors roster. He also shot 53% that season.

A KD level player would not be six years into his career and have a grand total of ZERO winning seasons.
tpols with another abysmal take :lol KD at Ingram's age was the consensus 2nd best player in the league, a multi time scoring champ, and a soon to be MVP. I also have significant doubts Ingram is winning 60 games with Westbrook, or 59 with him missing half the season.

[NBAGOAT]

tpols with another abysmal take :lol KD at Ingram's age was the consensus 2nd best player in the league, a multi time scoring champ, and a soon to be MVP. I also have significant doubts Ingram is winning 60 games with Westbrook, or 59 with him missing half the season.

Pels fans have good reason to be excited but there’s no way zion/Ingram/cj win 60

[tpols]

Did you really just say Brandon Ingram, a 24 year old, whose career high is 23.8 on 46% might become a Durant level player off of one playoff series?

KD's career low is 25.1, which was on a stacked Warriors roster. He also shot 53% that season.

A KD level player would not be six years into his career and have a grand total of ZERO winning seasons.

I didn't say anything about career ranking. I said he could be as good at some point if he keeps it up. 27/6/6 on 48/41/83 in the playoffs shows he has shooting ability to compliment his extreme height and dribbling ability. I watched him and he was moving like Durant. You don't always see guys that tall and that long who are coordinated like that. Lamar Odom had that combo but he wasn't a shooter. Ingram is much closer to Durant in that aspect. Try to keep up son. Compare prime Durants averages in this post season to Ingrams. The Nets would've won with Ingram in Durants place given how awful he was.

[RRR3]

I didn't say anything about career ranking. I said he could be as good at some point if he keeps it up. 27/6/6 on 48/41/83 in the playoffs shows he has shooting ability to compliment his extreme height and dribbling ability. I watched him and he was moving like Durant. You don't always see guys that tall and that long who are coordinated like that. Lamar Odom had that combo but he wasn't a shooter. Ingram is much closer to Durant in that aspect. Try to keep up son. Compare prime Durants averages in this post season to Ingrams. The Nets would've won with Ingram in Durants place given how awful he was.
I find it hilarious you think Ingram is the next KD for averaging 27/6/6 on great efficiency in a 6 game series but LeBron was the worst player ever for averaging almost 40 PPG+ 8/8 and elite efficiency in a 6 game series in 2009.

[ShawkFactory]

I didn't say anything about career ranking. I said he could be as good at some point if he keeps it up. 27/6/6 on 48/41/83 in the playoffs shows he has shooting ability to compliment his extreme height and dribbling ability. I watched him and he was moving like Durant. You don't always see guys that tall and that long who are coordinated like that. Lamar Odom had that combo but he wasn't a shooter. Ingram is much closer to Durant in that aspect. Try to keep up son. Compare prime Durants averages in this post season to Ingrams. The Nets would've won with Ingram in Durants place given how awful he was.

Durant has played 155 postseason games. Ingram now has 4.

You serious? :lol

[tontoz]

Ingram is basically a poor mans KD, which is still a very good player. If Zion is healthy next year they could be a legit 50+ win team.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Ingram isn't better than KD. Tatum shut Ingram down (6-19 15 points) but unlike KD it was just man to man defense the Celtic defense wasn't focused on Ingram like that because he's not dangerous like that. So acting like Ingram is on part with Durant just because Durant playoff numbers were bad is wrong. Ingram is a good player and a legit star but this is just talking foolishness.

[RRR3]

Ingram is basically a poor mans KD, which is still a very good player. If Zion is healthy next year they could be a legit 50+ win team.
Maybe but they should add more defense. Don’t like their defense roster wise at all.

[tontoz]

Maybe but they should add more defense. Don’t like their defense roster wise at all.

To be a title contender, sure. But they were noticably better after the CJ trade.

[tpols]

To be a title contender, sure. But they were noticably better after the CJ trade.

CJ shit the bed in the playoffs. Like he usually does. Eye test shows he has great skill with the break down dribbling and midrange shooting. Yet if you check his playoff splits year after year he shits the bed. 39/33/69 from your 2nd option? A guard who plays no defense? Thats hard to win with.

[tontoz]

CJ shit the bed in the playoffs. Like he usually does. Eye test shows he has great skill with the break down dribbling and midrange shooting. Yet if you check his playoff splits year after year he shits the bed. 39/33/69 from your 2nd option? A guard who plays no defense? Thats hard to win with.

If Zion plays he won't be the 2nd option.

For his career in the playoffs he has averaged 20 ppg with a 53% TS. Weak efficiency but as a 3rd options that should go up.

[ShawkFactory]

Yea a 1-2-3 of Zion, Ingram, and CJ is really really poor defensively. And you know all of them will have to be in the game in key moments for them to win. Even Jonas is pretty bad.

Alvarado and Herb Jones have been revelations though and will have to play more minutes.

If Zion is actually healthy and himself I'd put them at maybe 52-54 wins but they would have a tough time against a great offensive team in a series.

[ImKobe]

Ingram isn't better than KD. Tatum shut Ingram down (6-19 15 points) but unlike KD it was just man to man defense the Celtic defense wasn't focused on Ingram like that because he's not dangerous like that. So acting like Ingram is on part with Durant just because Durant playoff numbers were bad is wrong. Ingram is a good player and a legit star but this is just talking foolishness.

Oh, now we're using a 1 game sample to make a case for Tatum and ignore what Ingram's being doing the last 3 years. Amazing takes on this board lmao. We give 0 credit to BI for performing at a high level with the season on the line for the past month but we're going to use 1 RS game to discredit his entire body of work. :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Oh, now we're using a 1 game sample to make a case for Tatum and ignore what Ingram's being doing the last 3 years. Amazing takes on this board lmao. We give 0 credit to BI for performing at a high level with the season on the line for the past month but we're going to use 1 RS game to discredit his entire body of work. :applause:

I wasn't making a case for Tatum. I told you: that debate is over. I was just objecting to tpols trying to act like Ingram is on past with KD. Tatum wouldn't shut KD down like that without help.

[PeroAntic]

Yea a 1-2-3 of Zion, Ingram, and CJ is really really poor defensively. And you know all of them will have to be in the game in key moments for them to win. Even Jonas is pretty bad.


Ingram about to make a defensive leap next season. mark it. hes been improving steadily.

They do need to change Jonas with a defensive big.

[Shooter]

I find it hilarious you think Ingram is the next KD for averaging 27/6/6 on great efficiency in a 6 game series but LeBron was the worst player ever for averaging almost 40 PPG+ 8/8 and elite efficiency in a 6 game series in 2009.

T trolls is a dumb bitch :lol

Thurston...

https://i.postimg.cc/PxGVGsPg/Thurston_(Tpols).jpg

[ImKobe]

...are we sure Ingram is not on Tatum's level?

[Wally450]

...are we sure Ingram is not on Tatum's level?

Yes, we're sure.

[ShawkFactory]

...are we sure Ingram is not on Tatum's level?

Yea.

[RRR3]

...are we sure Ingram is not on Tatum's level?
LeBron is better than Kobe get over it.

[SouBeachTalents]

...are we sure Ingram is not on Tatum's level?
Yes.

[Axe]

T trolls is a dumb bitch :lol

Thurston...

https://i.postimg.cc/PxGVGsPg/Thurston_(Tpols).jpg
:roll:

[ImKobe]

Yes, we're sure.

When did Ingram go 4-19 for 10 pts in the Playoffs?

Tatum doesn't look like a star now that he's playing against an actual defense.. but him putting up 30 on Mills/Dragic/Curry was seen as this great achievement. He also shot 6/18 in Game 1..

No mid-range game, can't do shit in the post, has 7 All-Defensive team level defenders around him to make him look like an elite defender.. :sleeping

[ShawkFactory]

When did Ingram go 4-19 for 10 pts in the Playoffs?

Tatum doesn't look like a star now that he's playing against an actual defense.. but him putting up 30 on Mills/Dragic/Curry was seen as this great achievement. He also shot 6/18 in Game 1..

No mid-range game, can't do shit in the post, has 7 All-NBA level defenders around him to make him look like an elite defender.. :sleeping

Yea..the one-off playoff game performances are not the reason for any of this thinking.

Nobody separated the two after Ingrams game 1 against Phoenix.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yea..the one-off playoff game performances are not the reason for any of this thinking.

Nobody separated the two after Ingrams game 1 against Phoenix.
He also closed the series going 15/38 with 11 turnovers over the final 2 games.

[RRR3]

He also closed the series going 15/38 with 11 turnovers over the final 2 games.
ImKobe loves guys who play like that in elimination games.

[3ba11]

He also closed the series going 15/38 with 11 turnovers over the final 2 games.


You guys will be eating out of my hand next year when Zion returns and Ingram is his Pippen for the title.. I really like McCollum at #3

[ImKobe]

He also closed the series going 15/38 with 11 turnovers over the final 2 games.

He broke his back in Game 5, moron.

Still had 22 w/ 11 assists in elimination, not his fault the refs rigged the end of that game, and he took 3 bad threes at the end of it because they had no time left, so the shooting #s look worse than they really are.

[Axe]

You guys will be eating out of my hand next year when Zion returns and Ingram is his Pippen for the title.. I really like McCollum at #3
Lmao zion is a bust. Nobody is scared of new orleans's patrick chewing.

[RRR3]

He broke his back in Game 5, moron.

Still had 22 w/ 11 assists in elimination, not his fault the refs rigged the end of that game, and he took 3 bad threes at the end of it because they had no time left, so the shooting #s look worse than they really are.
How the **** was he playing then? :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

You guys will be eating out of my hand next year when Zion returns and Ingram is his Pippen for the title.. I really like McCollum at #3

I don’t understand this post.

[3ba11]

He broke his back in Game 5, moron.

Still had 22 w/ 11 assists in elimination, not his fault the refs rigged the end of that game, and he took 3 bad threes at the end of it because they had no time left, so the shooting #s look worse than they really are.


Ingram's mid-range and turnaround seems to be better

But I would watch out for Tatum in Game 4.. He has a chance to drop 40-50 and change the Bucks' defensive plan.. this would change the series

[SouBeachTalents]

He broke his back in Game 5, moron.

Still had 22 w/ 11 assists in elimination, not his fault the refs rigged the end of that game, and he took 3 bad threes at the end of it because they had no time left, so the shooting #s look worse than they really are.
We resorting to flat out lies now?

[3ba11]

We resorting to flat out lies now?


Lebron was lottery with Ingram, Kuzma, Ball, Caruso, Rondo, McGee...

He would've romped to the Finals in the East with that easily - lots of guys would (depending on the year, aka 01, 07', 09', etc)

That's why Finals record matters - Finals appearances are obviously conference-dependant

2019 Lebron basically had the current bulls cast with Ingram instead of DeRozan - so add Lebron to the current Bulls and he's lottery out West

[Axe]

This thread being derailed to lebron all over again :yaohappy:

[RRR3]

We resorting to flat out lies now?
First player to ever play with a broken back, truly incredible stuff from Ingram.

[ImKobe]

We resorting to flat out lies now?


https://youtu.be/px6Bp1B_wqI

[ImKobe]

Ingram's mid-range and turnaround seems to be better

But I would watch out for Tatum in Game 4.. He has a chance to drop 40-50 and change the Bucks' defensive plan.. this would change the series

BI has incredible mid-range numbers w/ a high volume while Tatum can only shoot 3s and score on layups/dunks.

[RRR3]

https://youtu.be/px6Bp1B_wqI
I knew you were stupid, but I didn't know you were THIS stupid. My god.

[ImKobe]

I knew you were stupid, but I didn't know you were THIS stupid. My god.

AD would have been out for the rest of the series if he fell on his back like that.

[RRR3]

AD would have been out for the rest of the series if he fell on his back like that.
You're too stupid to even realize why I'm calling you stupid. Incredible.

[TheGoatest]

Last night was an epic choke job by Tatum. If the Celtics lose this series, Tatum can look back at game 3 they lost by two points in which he shot 4-19 and wonder what could've been had he merely had a bad game, and not an atrocious one.

None of this has anything to do with Tatum being better Chokegraham, which he is by a mile.