The Shapeshifting Warriors

[Stephonit]

First there was the Death Lineup.

Then the Hampton 5.

Now there's the PTSD Lineup.

Built around the Warriors core their lineups may appear slightly different but they're still deadly.

I wonder if the Warriors win the championship this year people will end up thinking that the current version may actually be the best of the lot.

[nineiron]

doesn't matter.

Curry will choke when it matters most. he always does.

[hold this L]

Death Lineup will always sounds the best. Just call it that, the newer version of that.

[Shogon]

Thought for the day... would the Warriors be better with Steph off the bench? He is clearly their best player, but from an ego perspective, my contention is he can probably deal with it better than anyone else they have and not have it negatively impact his play.

Hmm.

[RRR3]

Thought for the day... would the Warriors be better with Steph off the bench? He is clearly their best player, but from an ego perspective, my contention is he can probably deal with it better than anyone else they have and not have it negatively impact his play.

Hmm.
No wtf

[Shogon]

No wtf

I don't think there's any clear formula as to whether it matters if someone starts or not... so long as they're getting the lion's share of the minutes they're capable of.

This isn't as simplistic of a formula as you think.

Things are done a certain way for years, decades and longer... in less than optimal ways.

It's not that absurd.

[tontoz]

I don't think there's any clear formula as to whether it matters if someone starts or not... so long as they're getting the lion's share of the minutes they're capable of.

This isn't as simplistic of a formula as you think.

Things are done a certain way for years, decades and longer... in less than optimal ways.

It's not that absurd.


This season has been interesting for Steph. He got off to a hot start then hit a slump in January.

He does a lot of running without the ball and at age 34 that is harder to do. I think he might have been struggling with fatigue. Limiting his minutes in an easy series makes sense, especially coming off an injury.

Curious to see how long this lasts.

[hold this L]

It doesn't make any sense at all to start him from the bench, what kind of crazed nonsense is that? :facepalm He's going to start when his minutes are up because he's far and away the most impactful player on the team, and they need him out there. They're +17 with him on the floor and -1 off in game 1, +32 with him on the floor and -12 in game 2. He's played 45/98 minutes so far.

[Shogon]

It doesn't make any sense at all to start him from the bench, what kind of crazed nonsense is that? :facepalm He's going to start when his minutes are up because he's far and away the most impactful player on the team, and they need him out there. They're +17 with him on the floor and -1 off in game 1, +32 with him on the floor and -12 in game 2. He's played 45/98 minutes so far.

You can't start from the bench. lol. Math and logic aren't most people's strong suits, I didn't expect any other type of reaction from most of you.

Just another brain dead take. You clearly don't have the ego to deal with such a thing, lol. You're just making a bunch of arguments that never addressed my point in any way whatsoever.

Ego, ego, ego.

[Shogon]

This season has been interesting for Steph. He got off to a hot start then hit a slump in January.

He does a lot of running without the ball and at age 34 that is harder to do. I think he might have been struggling with fatigue. Limiting his minutes in an easy series makes sense, especially coming off an injury.

Curious to see how long this lasts.

He slumped incredibly hard leading up to and after breaking the all time 3 point record compared to what he was doing early in the season. I feel like that can't be a coincidence.

[hold this L]

You can't start from the bench. lol. Math and logic aren't most people's strong suits, I didn't expect any other type of reaction from most of you.

Just another brain dead take. You clearly don't have the ego to deal with such a thing, lol. You're just making a bunch of arguments that never addressed my point in any way whatsoever.

Ego, ego, ego.

Stop focusing on worthless semantics you ****ing goofball. What's next, grammar and spelling? You've addressed nothing in regards to how him coming off the bench benefits the Warriors in any way, outside of saying that it might not affect them negatively. In other words, a useless suggestion.

[Shogon]

Stop focusing on worthless semantics you ****ing goofball. What's next, grammar and spelling? You've addressed nothing in regards to how him coming off the bench benefits the Warriors in any way, outside of saying that it might not affect them negatively. In other words, a useless suggestion.

You're just a dumb**** that doesn't understand even the mere idea of team dynamics being impacted by multiple things including but not limited to psychological aspects, which was the entire point of my first post. It's ok, the leading minds in this sport don't get it either. It's beyond our current understanding. The only way we can even start to attempt to figure it out is to experiment...but too many simple minded fools like you exist so it's going to be a long ways off.

[3ba11]

That's why I have Curry #5 all-time

His all-time jumpshooting skill and fundamentals fit with any teammate or system and develop young players into stars like Poole, Wiggins, or Klay.

so his teams are capable of the best chemistry and brand of ball in the league, thereby yielding the highest team ceilings without super-team help

[tpols]

You can't start from the bench. lol. Math and logic aren't most people's strong suits, I didn't expect any other type of reaction from most of you.

Just another brain dead take. You clearly don't have the ego to deal with such a thing, lol. You're just making a bunch of arguments that never addressed my point in any way whatsoever.

Ego, ego, ego.

The point is when Curry is in the game they literally blow the game wide open. When he's out they literally were losing lol. If they started him from the beginning the rout would just start earlier. Its,not like that hasn't been proven over many seasons and were talking about starting a guy who always came off the bench.

[tontoz]

He isn't healthy yet:



Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry says he still feels some discomfort in his injured foot. But Curry said that "doesn't matter" and he plans to keep playing.

After coming off the bench for the Warriors first two playoff games against the Denver Nuggets, Curry added he doesn't care about starting. He said he's focused on making the minutes he plays "impactful".

Curry scored 34 points on 12-of-17 shooting in 23 minutes, as Golden State took a 2-0 series lead over Denver on Monday night.

[tpols]

That's why I have Curry #5 all-time

His all-time jumpshooting skill and fundamentals fit with any teammate or system and develop young players into stars like Poole, Wiggins, or Klay.

so his teams are capable of the best chemistry and brand of ball in the league, thereby yielding the highest team ceilings without super-team help

Yea it would be amazing if Curry played with multiple MVP talents in his career. Oh wait, he did that once with Durant and the team was literally unstoppable.

[3ba11]

Yea it would be amazing if Curry played with multiple MVP talents in his career. Oh wait, he did that once with Durant and the team was literally unstoppable.


Everyone gets theirs in Curry-ball. No one plays like the Warriors

[tontoz]

When did 3ball flip the script on Curry? He used to trash him all the time.

[3ba11]

When did 3ball flip the script on Curry? He used to trash him all the time.

Giannis and Curry are 2 players that proved me wrong

[SouBeachTalents]

When did 3ball flip the script on Curry? He used to trash him all the time.
He flip flops on virtually every single player :lol Curry went from the most overrated player of all time to top 5 ever over the span of like 7 games.

[Shogon]

He flip flops on virtually every single player :lol Curry went from the most overrated player of all time to top 5 ever over the span of like 7 games.

The only 3 players he never changes his stances on ever are Jordan, Pippen & LeBron. And even then he said LeBron was the GOAT for that moment he thought LeBron walked out on the NBA during the bubble post George Floyd, lol.

[3ba11]

He flip flops on virtually every single player :lol Curry went from the most overrated player of all time to top 5 ever over the span of like 7 games.


in addition to knowing how to win (chemistry.. brand of ball.. organic), Curry possesses the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals of title run)..

Knowing how to win (organic) and being able to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load) is required for top 5

This seems intuitive and I'm surprised that more people don't have these primary tenets as their criteria for top 10

[SouBeachTalents]

in addition to knowing how to win (chemistry.. brand of ball.. organic), Curry possesses the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in playoffs and Finals of title run)..

Knowing how to win (organic) and being able to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load) is required for top 5

This seems intuitive and I'm surprised that more people don't have these primary tenets of bball as their criteria for top 10
Literally all of that was still true when you made this thread less than a year ago.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history

[Shogon]

Steph Curry is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan due to his extreme range and extreme gravity. There's never been another perimeter player in league history that distorts opposing defenses quite like Stephen Curry. That second sentence isn't even an opinion, it's a fact.

[3ba11]

Literally all of that was still true when you made this thread less than a year ago.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history


I was biased against Curry for changing the game and this bias prevented me from seeing how well Curry actually fit my criteria

he DOES infact know how to win (goat brand of ball & organic qualities, aka not a talent-based winner/team-hopper) and he DID infact defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs/Finals of title run and win without elite scorer at sidekick)

I was just blinded by my unwillingness to accept the 3ball.. He changed the game

[Airupthere]

Good thing curry doesnt leave teams

[3ba11]

Steph Curry is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan due to his extreme range and extreme gravity. There's never been another perimeter player in league history that distorts opposing defenses quite like Stephen Curry. That second sentence isn't even an opinion, it's a fact.


^^^ there's truth here

MJ would be playing Curry's format in today's game..the 3ball... Not MJ's format..

But MJ would win a bunch of chips in the 3ball era just like he did in the big man era... He would be a 40% three-point shooter in today's game just he was in his era whenever he took more than bailout volume

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Thought for the day... would the Warriors be better with Steph off the bench? He is clearly their best player, but from an ego perspective, my contention is he can probably deal with it better than anyone else they have and not have it negatively impact his play.

Hmm.

I would say its smart to have 1 of curry/Klay/Poole off the bench as I don't see them co existing. But curry? Lol probably one of the other two

Lets see them play an average defense, jokic is like an overgrown fat 6th grader

[r0drig0lac]

another season where they face injury-torn teams when it matters.

[Hey Yo]

He isn't healthy yet:
Then he should quit dancing like an idiot.

[hold this L]

another season where they face injury-torn teams when it matters.

Teams? They're playing 1 team, and their next opponents are all fit. Stop crying.

[tontoz]

another season where they face injury-torn teams when it matters.

Not really a valid point even with this series. Denver has been without Murray/MPJ all year and still won 48 games. It isn't like those two suddenly got hurt two weeks ago.

[Bronbron23]

First there was the Death Lineup.

Then the Hampton 5.

Now there's the PTSD Lineup.

Built around the Warriors core their lineups may appear slightly different but they're still deadly.

I wonder if the Warriors win the championship this year people will end up thinking that the current version may actually be the best of the lot.


They're still probably the smartest team in the league. I can see them beating everyone except the suns. The suns match up very well. They're one of the few teams that can switch everything defensively without the warriors being able to take advantage of the mismatch off the switch. This is how the cavs beat them in 16 and it's how houston almost beat them with durant after that.

[Soundwave]

^^^ there's truth here

MJ would be playing Curry's format in today's game..the 3ball... Not MJ's format..

But MJ would win a bunch of chips in the 3ball era just like he did in the big man era... He would be a 40% three-point shooter in today's game just he was in his era whenever he took more than bailout volume

He'd shoot and make more 3s and work more on that in the summer, but I don't think he'd play THAT differently.

Kawhi won 2 titles in the modern era and he's a poor man's Jordan (slower and more robotic and less creative and more injury prone) but he basically plays the same style as 2nd 3-peat Jordan (1st threepeat Jordan is far more explosive than any version of Kawhi) and Kawhi did outplay Curry in that Raptors-Warriors final.

[3ba11]

He'd shoot and make more 3s and work more on that in the summer, but I don't think he'd play THAT differently.

Kawhi won 2 titles in the modern era and he's a poor man's Jordan (slower and more robotic and less creative and more injury prone) but he basically plays the same style as 2nd 3-peat Jordan (1st threepeat Jordan is far more explosive than any version of Kawhi) and Kawhi did outplay Curry in that Raptors-Warriors final.


He wouldn't play differently today except a few more threes per game

And yeah, a quicker, springier, more durable, better shot-making version of Kawhi wins every year with Lowry in today's game

[hold this L]

He'd shoot and make more 3s and work more on that in the summer, but I don't think he'd play THAT differently.

Kawhi won 2 titles in the modern era and he's a poor man's Jordan (slower and more robotic and less creative and more injury prone) but he basically plays the same style as 2nd 3-peat Jordan (1st threepeat Jordan is far more explosive than any version of Kawhi) and Kawhi did outplay Curry in that Raptors-Warriors final.
Easy to outplay Curry when the raptors applied a box-and-1 on him and his teammate was Quinn Cook next to him. Somehow still shot about as well as Curry did which is embarrassing considering the level of defense one had to deal with.

[Im Still Ballin]

Thought for the day... would the Warriors be better with Steph off the bench? He is clearly their best player, but from an ego perspective, my contention is he can probably deal with it better than anyone else they have and not have it negatively impact his play.

Hmm.

It would be interesting simply because they'd be doing something unconventional. It could, for a game or two, throw a team off.

[Im Still Ballin]

The point is when Curry is in the game they literally blow the game wide open. When he's out they literally were losing lol. If they started him from the beginning the rout would just start earlier. Its,not like that hasn't been proven over many seasons and were talking about starting a guy who always came off the bench.

I think the point is the distribution of minutes in an unconventional order, along with the psychological boost to teammates. At the end of the day, he'd still be playing the same amount of minutes and closing games.

That allocation could absolutely throw some teams off for one or two games. The Warriors would be sacrificing the first six minutes of the game for a stronger next twelve.

[Bronbron23]

Easy to outplay Curry when the raptors applied a box-and-1 on him and his teammate was Quinn Cook next to him. Somehow still shot about as well as Curry did which is embarrassing considering the level of defense one had to deal with.

What about the cavs in 16 and rockets with kd after that? They just switched everything and gaurded him man up. They had mobile pieces at every position to do it and this caused the warriors and steph alot of problems. Warriors like to set screens to get steph a mismatch that he can take take advantage of. This puts defenses in a tough position because they're forced to either let steph put their big on skates or double him and leave someone wide open for an easy look. This dosn't work as well with teams that don't have a major weak link defensively like the suns.

[NBAGOAT]

Easy to outplay Curry when the raptors applied a box-and-1 on him and his teammate was Quinn Cook next to him. Somehow still shot about as well as Curry did which is embarrassing considering the level of defense one had to deal with.

yea curry outplayed kawhi that series anyways lol. Kawhi had a much better team. Evidence is raptors won 59 without kawhi the next year, the warriors were WOAT lvl with the team they fielded at times in the Finals minus curry the next year.

[NBAGOAT]

What about the cavs in 16 and rockets with kd after that? They just switched everything and gaurded him man up. They had mobile pieces at every position to do it and this caused the warriors and steph alot of problems. Warriors like to set screens to get steph a mismatch that he can take take advantage of. This puts defenses in a tough position because they're forced to either let steph put their big on skates or double him and leave someone wide open for an easy look. This dosn't work as well with teams that don't have a major weak link defensively like the suns.

switching is a good counter vs gs but curry can still abuse most guys. What you're overlooking is how much defensive attention those teams put on curry, constantly multiple guys focused on curry with a lot of soft doubles. in 16 the cavs basically let barnes get off any shot he wanted. With the rockets, they rarely doubled KD even if he had chris paul or harden on him. the rockets defense was that much more worried about curry than the best scorer in the world

[ClipperRevival]

Steph Curry is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan due to his extreme range and extreme gravity. There's never been another perimeter player in league history that distorts opposing defenses quite like Stephen Curry. That second sentence isn't even an opinion, it's a fact.

https://c.tenor.com/mx9fNn1S4PwAAAAS/spit-take.gif

Gravity doesn't = better.

Come on babyboi, at least try to be objective.

[Axe]

Thank you very much, iggy. :applause:

[Axe]

https://c.tenor.com/mx9fNn1S4PwAAAAS/spit-take.gif

Gravity doesn't = better.

Come on babyboi, at least try to be objective.
He must be on meth or adderalls once again.

[hold this L]

What about the cavs in 16 and rockets with kd after that? They just switched everything and gaurded him man up. They had mobile pieces at every position to do it and this caused the warriors and steph alot of problems. Warriors like to set screens to get steph a mismatch that he can take take advantage of. This puts defenses in a tough position because they're forced to either let steph put their big on skates or double him and leave someone wide open for an easy look. This dosn't work as well with teams that don't have a major weak link defensively like the suns.

That tactic causes issues for sure. The Rockets gameplan was to turn Warriors into an iso team and kill the player movement. But at the end of the day, they still lost both series. Cavs won, but that's 1 series. Suns are definitely prepared to defend best against the Warriors. I think Boston and Heat are probably up there as well. However, Warriors are the biggest matchup nightmare for the Suns as well. They have the bodies to break down both CP3 and Booker. It will essentially turn into Ayton feasting or other guys hitting their shots.

My point for a box + 1 is something else though. There's no player in NBA history that can do anything to that. That's a high school play designed to specifically shut down that 1 special kid while his scrub teammates attempt to play basketball. That's the level of respect Nurse showed the Warrior team when they essentially had 6 of their top 8 players either injured the whole series, playing broken, or playing some games like Klay.

[FKAri]

Steph Curry is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan due to his extreme range and extreme gravity. There's never been another perimeter player in league history that distorts opposing defenses quite like Stephen Curry. That second sentence isn't even an opinion, it's a fact.

Curry being a better offensive player than MJ is not an inarguable fact. Hell I'd argue against it. Unless your inarguable fact was his distortion of defenses. I can agree with you on that one. The two are correlated but not the same thing.

[Bronbron23]

That tactic causes issues for sure. The Rockets gameplan was to turn Warriors into an iso team and kill the player movement. But at the end of the day, they still lost both series. Cavs won, but that's 1 series. Suns are definitely prepared to defend best against the Warriors. I think Boston and Heat are probably up there as well. However, Warriors are the biggest matchup nightmare for the Suns as well. They have the bodies to break down both CP3 and Booker. It will essentially turn into Ayton feasting or other guys hitting their shots.

My point for a box + 1 is something else though. There's no player in NBA history that can do anything to that. That's a high school play designed to specifically shut down that 1 special kid while his scrub teammates attempt to play basketball. That's the level of respect Nurse showed the Warrior team when they essentially had 6 of their top 8 players either injured the whole series, playing broken, or playing some games like Klay.

Yeah for sure a box and 1 is tough for 1 guy to get looks against. Teams can't get with it now though with curry having a solid supporting cast. The only way to defend them now is switching everything. Suns and boston are probably the only 2 teams capable. Not sure about heat. They have a couple weak links warriors could expose. Bucks are capable but they seem to love doubling and over helping unnecessarily.

[Bronbron23]

switching is a good counter vs gs but curry can still abuse most guys. What you're overlooking is how much defensive attention those teams put on curry, constantly multiple guys focused on curry with a lot of soft doubles. in 16 the cavs basically let barnes get off any shot he wanted. With the rockets, they rarely doubled KD even if he had chris paul or harden on him. the rockets defense was that much more worried about curry than the best scorer in the world

No i understand that but you have to with the amount of screens he gets. If he was just isoing like other players defenders wouldn't worry nearly as much. With the screens and his elite off ball movement and the rules that don't allow guys to blow through screens anymore you have to be aware of where steph is. The down side to this is it takes alot of effort from the whole team for steph to get off the way he does. When this isn't effective thus is where the warriors get in trouble because they don't have a guy that can get goid looks against a tough defender like they did when they had kd. That's the reason they went out and got him.

[hold this L]

Yeah for sure a box and 1 is tough for 1 guy to get looks against. Teams can't get with it now though with curry having a solid supporting cast. The only way to defend them now is switching everything. Suns and boston are probably the only 2 teams capable. Not sure about heat. They have a couple weak links warriors could expose. Bucks are capable but they seem to love doubling and over helping unnecessarily.

We just need to see how it works. Switching everything and forcing isos is the best way to counter the Warriors. But I have no idea how well it will work with the current team, they thankfully signed a bunch of shooters this time around (including JP's development). We'll see if we're lucky enough to see a healthy Suns Warriors WCF. Something everyone wants to see.

[Spurs m8]

Nah, fvck the Warriors (soz warrorfan)

Gimme Grizz Vs Suns

[Bronbron23]

We just need to see how it works. Switching everything and forcing isos is the best way to counter the Warriors. But I have no idea how well it will work with the current team, they thankfully signed a bunch of shooters this time around (including JP's development). We'll see if we're lucky enough to see a healthy Suns Warriors WCF. Something everyone wants to see.

Yeah poole emerging is big. He looks real good and confident. If he continues to play like this warriors gonna be a problem for anyone.

[sdot_thadon]

We just need to see how it works. Switching everything and forcing isos is the best way to counter the Warriors. But I have no idea how well it will work with the current team, they thankfully signed a bunch of shooters this time around (including JP's development). We'll see if we're lucky enough to see a healthy Suns Warriors WCF. Something everyone wants to see.

That's the series I'm hoping for aside from Bk-Philly.