Does Lebron have the record for most losses as the preseason favorite?

[3ba11]

.

2011
2014
2015
2021


Some sources had Lebron as the preseason favorite in 2010 and 2022, so that's 2 more losses, or 6 total

Has anyone else lost so much with the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite)?..

It should be noted that only a weak brand of ball can cause favored talent to underachieve, so this is direct evidence of Lebron's inferior brand of ball (big man ball-dominance)..

[John_Connor]

more like

times lebron either lost with the best team, #1 seed or was the betting odds favorite to win

2004 Olympics
2006 FIBA
2008 if not for Kobe
2009 #1 seed
2010 #1 seed
2011 betting odds/favorite/best team
2013 if not for ray allen
2014 betting odds/favorite/best team
2015 betting odds/favorite
2021 betting odds/favorite
2022 betting odds/favorite

[ShawkFactory]

Todays games

7:00pm: Miami Heat @ Atlanta Hawks (Heat -1.5)
8:30pm: Milwaukee Bucks @ Chicago Bulls (Bucks -2.5)
9:30pm: Phoenix Suns @ New Orleans Pelicans (Suns -1.5)

[John_Connor]

Todays games

7:00pm: Miami Heat @ Atlanta Hawks (Heat -1.5)
8:30pm: Milwaukee Bucks @ Chicago Bulls (Bucks -2.5)
9:30pm: Phoenix Suns @ New Orleans Pelicans (Suns -1.5)


https://youtu.be/s86K-p089R8

[3ba11]

Todays games

7:00pm: Miami Heat @ Atlanta Hawks (Heat -1.5)
8:30pm: Milwaukee Bucks @ Chicago Bulls (Bucks -2.5)
9:30pm: Phoenix Suns @ New Orleans Pelicans (Suns -1.5)


Good games tonight - injuries have made the on-paper talent equal between the teams, so brand of ball, chemistry, and teammate fits will decide the games.

Naturally, only a weak brand of ball can cause favored talent to underachieve, so the perennial underachevement specified in the OP is direct evidence of Lebron's inferior brand of ball (big man ball-dominance)..

[GimmeThat]

as long as he is the sole owner of the Lakers organization, then the answer is yes

[SouBeachTalents]

He has the record for most threads made by one poster. Kblaze said he was at 1400 a few months ago.

[FKAri]

No that would be Michael Jordan with 1-9.

[John_Connor]

No that would be Michael Jordan with 1-9.

jordan was the favorite vs the pistons and Celtics in the 80s ? lol

[RRR3]

He has the record for most threads made by one poster. Kblaze said he was at 1400 a few months ago.
Beyond obsessed.

[3ba11]

Beyond obsessed.


Defrauded = ignorant

Obsessed = aware


I'll take the latter.. you can have the former

[Wally450]

What's everyone having for dinner tonight?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Beyond obsessed.




2011
2014
2015
2021

Some sources had Lebron as the preseason favorite in 2010 and 2022, so that's 2 more losses, or 6 total

Has anyone else lost so much with the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite)?..

It should be noted that only a weak brand of ball can cause favored talent to underachieve, so this is direct evidence of Lebron's inferior brand of ball (big man ball-dominance)..


Lebron had good runs in 07' and 15' without super-team, but he gave away 2 easy runs in 09 and 10'..

So he could've been dominating the conference every year WITHOUT super-teams, but he lacks the integrity of his gamer son and seeks the cheat code instead... aka the short-cut...

Why develop chemistry and favorite status over many years when you can just get Year 1 favorite status by forming super-teams?

Btw, the 18' Cavs were the only 2-star team in the conference plus a shoal of Finals veterans, so that's a massive edge against 0-star newbie opponents.. Each of his series wins that year were like Jordan beating the 88' Cavs or 90' Sixers... Something like that

Defrauded = ignorant

Obsessed = aware


I'll take the latter.. you can have the former

.....

https://64.media.tumblr.com/b2db3af865fa6378d2926be2f61fbbd9/88bb8c49b2581d49-34/s400x600/3ebe4c5319fcf56fef33f9bbab29fd9aa39149a5.gifv

The Kobe stalker never recovered.

[Shooter]

He has the record for most threads made by one poster. Kblaze said he was at 1400 a few months ago.

Baaaang!!!

[paksat]

I was watching 2006 fiba earlier, his lapses on defense are comical

the sad thing is he's actually pretty good at it when he tries, but he just doesn't give a damn for w.e reason.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Yes sir.

I think kawhi has the record for most underdog finals mvps in 2014 and 2019

[Spurs m8]

more like

times lebron either lost with the best team, #1 seed or was the betting odds favorite to win

2004 Olympics
2006 FIBA
2008 if not for Kobe
2009 #1 seed
2010 #1 seed
2011 betting odds/favorite/best team
2013 if not for ray allen
2014 betting odds/favorite/best team
2015 betting odds/favorite
2021 betting odds/favorite
2022 betting odds/favorite

Yikes

[r15mohd]

.

2011
2014
2015
2021


Some sources had Lebron as the preseason favorite in 2010 and 2022, so that's 2 more losses, or 6 total

Has anyone else lost so much with the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite)?..

It should be noted that only a weak brand of ball can cause favored talent to underachieve, so this is direct evidence of Lebron's inferior brand of ball (big man ball-dominance)..


now we do your idol, Kobe...1 less than Lebron

99
03
04

and some sources had Kobe as the preseason fav in 2011 (aiming for a 3peat), so that's another loss or 4 total

let's see the back-pedalling with 1st/2nd option distinction for Shaq and Kobe now :lol

[3ba11]

now we do your idol, Kobe...1 less than Lebron

99
03
04

and some sources had Kobe as the preseason fav in 2011 (aiming for a 3peat), so that's another loss or 4 total

let's see the back-pedalling with 1st/2nd option distinction for Shaq and Kobe now :lol


Thanks for doing the work to show that Lebron has significantly more losses as the preseason talent favorite (25-50% more)

Remember that favored talent underachieves due to weak brand of ball - since Lebron lost more than anyone else as the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite), we know that his brand of ball is the worst-ever.

[Lebron23]

Lebron will always be rank higher than your idol Kobe

[John_Connor]

Lebron will always be rank higher than your idol Kobe

by who


nick Wright? Henry Abbott? lol

who cares


most players put kobe above YOUR idol

[red1]

only finals MVP over a 70-win team


:oldlol:

[red1]

Lebron will always be rank higher than your idol Kobe

Not even a comparison anymore.

[r15mohd]

Thanks for doing the work to show that Lebron has significantly more losses as the preseason talent favorite (25-50% more)

Remember that favored talent underachieves due to weak brand of ball - since Lebron lost more than anyone else as the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite), we know that his brand of ball is the worst-ever.


4 is not significantly more than 3. you can put in any metric to amplify it to fit your agenda like you've done with %, but it is 1 season out of roughly 20 for both that separates the parity

and that's your personal definition of pre-season fav = best brand of ball. from 85-21, the preseason fav has won 18/37 times -- if your assumption is that the best brand of ball is pre-season determined, results from 85-21 indicate your assumption is flawed (just like all your takes) as it is wrong half the time.

[3ba11]

4 is not significantly more than 3. you can put in any metric to amplify it to fit your agenda like you've done with %, but it is 1 season out of roughly 20 for both that separates the parity

and that's your personal definition of pre-season fav = best brand of ball. from 85-21, the preseason fav has won 18/37 times -- if your assumption is that the best brand of ball is pre-season determined, results from 85-21 indicate your assumption is flawed (just like all your takes) as it is wrong half the time.


Maybe I wasn't clear enough

Bad brand of ball causes favored talent to underachieve - so there's been many bad brands that underachieved but Lebron's worst-ever brand lost with favored talent (preseason favorite) more than anyone in history

[r15mohd]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough

Bad brand of ball causes favored talent to underachieve - so there's been many bad brands that underachieved but Lebron's worst-ever brand lost with favored talent (preseason favorite) more than anyone in history

between 85-88, LAL and BOS were alternate in favorites and also in champs - what switched or imposed "bad brand of ball" for both to underachieve?
same for detroit from 88-91, their brand of basketball didnt change - injuries caused the results of winning then losing to Chicago
were the warriors playing any different brand of ball when they won in 15 vs when they lost in 16?

again, it's your personal definition and doesnt align with reality...

[3ba11]

between 85-88, LAL and BOS were alternate in favorites and also in champs - what switched or imposed "bad brand of ball" for both to underachieve?
same for detroit from 88-91, their brand of basketball didnt change - injuries caused the results of winning then losing to Chicago
were the warriors playing any different brand of ball when they won in 15 vs when they lost in 16?

again, it's your personal definition and doesnt align with reality...


Tons of inferior brands caused favored talent to lose

We're in agreement there

Lebron's brand simply did it the MOST, so it's the worst brand ever (see thread title).. confirmed

[Manny98]

He has the record for most threads made by one poster. Kblaze said he was at 1400 a few months ago.
:oldlol:

[r15mohd]

Tons of inferior brands caused favored talent to lose

We're in agreement there

Lebron's brand simply did it the MOST, so it's the worst brand ever (see thread title).. confirmed

we're not...for one, cite your sources for pre-season odds. for instance some had LAL as pre-season favs in 2011 after coming off their 2peat and some had the Heat
same for 16, even tho the Warriors won over an injured Cavs, some still had the Cavs as favs in 16

this would change the totals significantly, in your words.




Tons of inferior brands caused favored talent to lose

and you can keep saying this but it's without value. since you are a self-proclaimed aficionado of the MJ era, you can certainly explain why any of those examples of the Lakers/Celtics or Det/Lakers/Chi had underchieving brands of basketball when they lost as pre-season favs vs when they won. pick either

[3ba11]

we're not...for one, cite your sources for pre-season odds. for instance some had LAL as pre-season favs in 2011 after coming off their 2peat and some had the Heat
same for 16, even tho the Warriors won over an injured Cavs, some still had the Cavs as favs in 16

this would change the totals significantly, in your words.




and you can keep saying this but it's without value. since you are a self-proclaimed aficionado of the MJ era, you can certainly explain why any of those examples of the Lakers/Celtics or Det/Lakers/Chi had underchieving brands of basketball when they lost as pre-season favs vs when they won. pick either


bballref is the source for preseason odds

And I don't know why those 80's super-teams had inferior brands than their super-teams opponent.. All I know is that Lebron's bad brand caused favored talent to lose more times than anyone ever, so he has the worst brand ever (big man ball-dominance that makes everyone stand in corner)

[Turbo Slayer]

LOL

[r15mohd]

bballref is the source for preseason odds

And I don't know why those 80's super-teams had inferior brands than their super-teams opponent.. All I know is that Lebron's bad brand caused favored talent to lose more times than anyone ever, so he has the worst brand ever (big man ball-dominance that makes everyone stand in corner)

basically sums up this thread of yours....

the reason you dont know is because there is no correlation or validity to it. all you're doing is taking a random stat that fits your agenda and trying to make it seem worthy, when it's already shown that this take is wrong 1/2 the time.

you have no bounds to how much you'll let Lebron run your life lol

[SouBeachTalents]

basically sums up this thread of yours....

the reason you dont know is because there is no correlation or validity to it. all you're doing is taking a random stat that fits your agenda and trying to make it seem worthy, when it's already shown that this take is wrong 1/2 the time.

you have no bounds to how much you'll let Lebron run your life lol
Sums up all that fakkits posts :lol

[3ba11]

basically sums up this thread of yours....

the reason you dont know is because there is no correlation or validity to it. all you're doing is taking a random stat that fits your agenda and trying to make it seem worthy, when it's already shown that this take is wrong 1/2 the time.

you have no bounds to how much you'll let Lebron run your life lol


There's only 2 reasons teams win - talent and brand of ball (aka strategy/chemistry)

So when favored talent loses, it's due to inferior brand of ball

Lebron lost with favored talent the most, so his brand is the worst

[plowking]

.

2011
2014
2015
2021


Some sources had Lebron as the preseason favorite in 2010 and 2022, so that's 2 more losses, or 6 total

Has anyone else lost so much with the on-paper talent favorite (preseason favorite)?..

It should be noted that only a weak brand of ball can cause favored talent to underachieve, so this is direct evidence of Lebron's inferior brand of ball (big man ball-dominance)..

You know what is wild? You're still here. After all this time talking about the same crap.

You could have been off bettering yourself. Making money. Learning a skill. Getting fit. But nah. You still here with LeBron's balls in ya mouth every day.

Crazy. Some people just don't get it.

[3ba11]

You know what is wild? You're still here. After all this time talking about the same crap.

You could have been off bettering yourself. Making money. Learning a skill. Getting fit. But nah. You still here with LeBron's balls in ya mouth every day.

Crazy. Some people just don't get it.


Just because you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, that doesn't mean I can't

I'm literally doing all of that and so much more - running things

[plowking]

Just because you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, that doesn't mean I can't

I'm literally doing all of that and so much more - running things

Could be. But doubt it.

Seen people with your mindset and fascination with focusing on downplaying and stressing on negatives. Generally not the ones that can chew gum and walk at the same time.

Hope you find something better than this.

[3ba11]

Could be. But doubt it.

Seen people with your mindset and fascination with focusing on downplaying and stressing on negatives. Generally not the ones that can chew gum and walk at the same time.

Hope you find something better than this.


Maybe if you had a better understanding, you wouldn't get so mad when someone points out that you never saw the goat.. So here you go...

As a frontcourt ball-dominator, Lebron's high scoring yields horrific teammate fits, chemistry and brand of ball, so he can't beat good teams with high scoring..

Essentially, Lebron is the worst-ever at chemistry, teammate fits and brand of ball (low team assists) - this horrible brand gets worse at higher scoring levels, which is why he needs all-time elite scorers at sidekick to win - his weak brand needs massive scoring help..

The stats prove it - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).

Otoh, MJ's high scoring was partially-assisted and off-ball, which elevates teammate role (good teammate fits) and allows a ball movement brand that can beat good teams.. This superior brand resulted from superior SKILL, aka elite jumpshooting skill and production off-screens.

Since MJ's fundamentals, teammate fits and brand of ball was still great at high scoring volumes, he could beat good teams with high scoring or bed-wetting teammates (carry-jobs), and therefore didn't need great scoring help like everyone else that won multiple chips.

MJ is the only player that defeated maximum defensive attention (carried the scoring load) in every series of his career.. Everyone else needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.. For example, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention in the Finals, so most of his already-inferior Finals stats are inflated compared to Michael's.
.

[plowking]

Maybe if you had a better understanding, you wouldn't get so mad when someone points out that you never saw the goat.. So here you go...

As a frontcourt ball-dominator, Lebron's high scoring yields horrific teammate fits, chemistry and brand of ball, so he can't beat good teams with high scoring..

Essentially, Lebron is the worst-ever at chemistry, teammate fits and brand of ball (low team assists) - this horrible brand gets worse at higher scoring levels, which is why he needs all-time elite scorers at sidekick to win - his weak brand needs massive scoring help..

The stats prove it - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).

Otoh, MJ's high scoring was partially-assisted and off-ball, which elevates teammate role (good teammate fits) and allows a ball movement brand that can beat good teams.. This superior brand resulted from superior SKILL, aka elite jumpshooting skill and production off-screens.

Since MJ's fundamentals, teammate fits and brand of ball was still great at high scoring volumes, he could beat good teams with high scoring or bed-wetting teammates (carry-jobs), and therefore didn't need great scoring help like everyone else that won multiple chips.

MJ is the only player that defeated maximum defensive attention (carried the scoring load) in every series of his career.. Everyone else needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention - any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.. For example, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention in the Finals, so most of his already-inferior Finals stats are inflated compared to Michael's.
.


You kinda proved my point there. You're obsessed with this.

Its always Lebron bad, Lebron sucks, Lebron no good, etc. That is all you kinda do on here...

If you're obsessed with this, which is unhealthy as it is just negative energy geared towards something that doesn't matter... then yeah, that walk and chew gum thing... Can't see it homie.

Find something more productive. This ain't it. Not worth it.

Your 25k posts on here all about the same topic hasn't changed anyones mind. And just made you more upset because you haven't changed anyones mind.

[3ba11]

Its always Lebron bad, Lebron sucks, Lebron no good, etc. That is all you kinda do on here...





I talk about all subjects basketball on here because it's a basketball forum - I've talked about every player like DeRozan, CP3, Lowry - everyone.

But Lebron ruined the NBA and basketball (per his teammates) so he's gotten a lot of focus for his fake goat debate, which has been exposed as a grift

[SouBeachTalents]

I talk about all subjects basketball on here because it's a basketball forum - I've talked about every player like DeRozan, CP3, Lowry - everyone.

But Lebron ruined the NBA and basketball (per his teammates) so he's gotten a lot of focus for his fake goat debate, which has been exposed as a grift
:oldlol:

Even when you do talk about other players, it's ALWAYS really about Jordan/LeBron/Pippen.

[RRR3]

:oldlol:

Even when you do talk about other players, it's ALWAYS really about Kobe/LeBron.
Fixed.

[3ba11]

:oldlol:

Even when you do talk about other players, it's ALWAYS really about Jordan/LeBron/Pippen.


You'd be amazed the insight you get if you compare everything to the goat standard

(the goat standard being things like meeting the preseason expectation.... or knowing how to win, aka brand of ball/organic... or team ceilings/Finals records... or defeating maximum defensive attention, aka carrying scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run... etc... etc... etc)

[r15mohd]

You'd be amazed the insight you get if you compare everything to the goat standard

(the goat standard being things like meeting the preseason expectation.... or knowing how to win, aka brand of ball/organic... or team ceilings/Finals records... or defeating maximum defensive attention, aka carrying scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run... etc... etc... etc)

so if meeting preseason expectations = GOAT standard, what does exceeding expectations do i.e.: 2016 and 2020? as well as directly when not winning as favorites prior to the Finals?

[Baller789]

so if meeting preseason expectations = GOAT standard, what does exceeding expectations do i.e.: 2016 and 2020? as well as directly when not winning as favorites prior to the Finals?

It adds to your legacy.

But then again if you fall well short of your expectations like Lebron has this season, it should be a black mark on your legacy.

It's only fair.

[kawhileonard2]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

[kawhileonard2]

so if meeting preseason expectations = GOAT standard, what does exceeding expectations do i.e.: 2016 and 2020? as well as directly when not winning as favorites prior to the Finals?

That wasn't exceeding expectations.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_preseason_odds.html (Cleveland 1st)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_preseason_odds.html (Lakers 2nd and didn't play #1 team) nor played a #1 nor #2 seed in either conference.

[r15mohd]

It adds to your legacy.

But then again if you fall well short of your expectations like Lebron has this season, it should be a black mark on your legacy.

It's only fair.

completely agree...but it doesnt stop with only the Finals taken into consideration only. every game should go into account and never be overlooked or omitted, like some conveniently do here.

[Axe]

LOL
Welcome back :cheers: