Ben Simmons is in a Win-Win Situation

[Foster5k]

Imagine if Ben Simmons actually started game 1 in this Celtics series, and the Nets ended up down 0-3. Who do you think would be taking a lot of heat? You guessed it. Ben Simmons. Now that the world has seen KD and Kyrie wet the bed and the so called greatest offensive duo in NBA history are on the verge of getting swept, the pressure is off Ben Simmons.

If Ben Simmons plays and the Nets get swept, well he was never expected to help on such short notice anyhow and KD, Kyrie, and Nash are mostly to blame.

If Ben Simmons plays and by some miracle they tie the series or even somehow wins, he'll get a ton of credit even if he barely has a positive impact.

Right now, is the perfect time for Ben Simmons to lace up the sneakers and enter a win-win situation. Also, if you're the Nets, you have nothing to lose by playing him.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Hmm by my estimations he is a certified pssy now so i disagree.

[post]

Hmm by my estimations he is a certified pssy now so i disagree.

i was going to say basically the same thing

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FrailFondBilby-size_restricted.gif

[kabacho]

Imagine if Ben Simmons actually started game 1 in this Celtics series, and the Nets ended up down 0-3. Who do you think would be taking a lot of heat? You guessed it. Ben Simmons. Now that the world has seen KD and Kyrie wet the bed and the so called greatest offensive duo in NBA history are on the verge of getting swept, the pressure is off Ben Simmons.

If Ben Simmons plays and the Nets get swept, well he was never expected to help on such short notice anyhow and KD, Kyrie, and Nash are mostly to blame.

If Ben Simmons plays and by some miracle they tie the series or even somehow wins, he'll get a ton of credit even if he barely has a positive impact.

Right now, is the perfect time for Ben Simmons to lace up the sneakers and enter a win-win situation. Also, if you're the Nets, you have nothing to lose by playing him.

is he playing thought?

[Wally450]

If Simmons plays and they lost game 4, his last two game played will have been eliminations from the playoffs. :lol

[Full Court]

What if Simmons comes back and the Nets win the next 4 though?

[GimmeThat]

he's in a winning situation as long as he's not going to have his current contract voided.

[post]

What if Simmons comes back and the Nets win the next 4 though?

i have a better chance of plowing marilyn monroe

[CelticBaller]

relegated to human victory cigar

[ImKobe]

What if Simmons comes back and the Nets win the next 4 though?

He's definitely in a situation where he could come back and give the Nets just enough where they win a couple games and make the series interesting. These games have all been close, if Simmons can swing the game by 5-6 points while playing ~20 minutes, that might just be enough. They're not winning 4, but they could push this to 6-7 games. We've seen it happen before. I remember when the '03 mavs almost blew a 3 - 0 series lead against Portland. Portland was up 2 going into the 4th quarter of that Game 7.

[Jasper]

What if Simmons comes back and the Nets win the next 4 though?

I will be rolling on the floor puking ...lmfao

[Kblaze8855]

What’s funny to me is if he were out there and had these results the armchair analysts here would be acting like it was proving them right about how his lack of shooting would doom any team in the playoffs. But here we are. Nets shooting 45% from 3 to no result.

Let him be out there. His lack of spacing would be the whole reason KD can’t get going.

[ImKobe]

What’s funny to me is if he were out there and had these results the armchair analysts here would be acting like it was proving them right about how his lack of shooting would doom any team in the playoffs. But here we are. Nets shooting 45% from 3 to no result.

Let him be out there. His lack of spacing would be the whole reason KD can’t get going.

Nets have been killing their own spacing regardless by playing Drummond/Claxton at the 5. Replacing that with Simmons at the 5 makes them more versatile on both ends and significantly better in transition.

[CelticBaller]

Nets have been killing their own spacing regardless by playing Drummond/Claxton at the 5. Replacing that with Simmons at the 5 makes them more versatile on both ends and significantly better in transition.
bro your basketball takes are trash :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

bro your basketball takes are trash :oldlol:

If they're going to have one non-shooter out there, Simmons is a significant upgrade over a role player like Drummond or Claxton. You're a ****ing idiot if you think otherwise.

[8Ball]

I don't see how a guy that hasn't played NBA basketball in 11 months can just jump into a new team in the playoffs and "save" them.

Off a recent back injury to boot.

[CelticBaller]

If they're going to have one non-shooter out there, Simmons is a significant upgrade over a role player like Drummond or Claxton. You're a ****ing idiot if you think otherwise.

Ben Simmons is not a good rim protector, Claxton and Dummond are better than him at that. Robert Williams and Horford will feast. Shit Jaylen will have a clear path to the basket with Benny boy there

Simmons at 5 will never work, he's better as a 4

[ImKobe]

Ben Simmons is not a good rim protector, Claxton and Dummond are better than him at that. Robert Williams and Horford will feast. Shit Jaylen will have a clear path to the basket with Benny boy there

Simmons at 5 will never work, he's better as a 4

Guess what, the Nets didn't have Drummond and barely played Claxton & did just fine on defense in the POs without a legitimate rim protector.

I didn't say that Simmons was going to protect the rim, my point is that he's a massive upgrade over those guys.

This is what Simmons at the 5 can look like


https://youtu.be/EbezMUTAtg8

He was a beast as a "Point Center" when Embiid was injured. This was ALWAYS the issue with Ben Simmons in Philly. He could not play as the 5 with Embiid, it just wouldn't work on offense. It works on a team with KD, Irving, Bruce Brown & Seth Curry.

[DMAVS41]

He should play. Almost absurd if he doesn't. They are at home and things can't get any worse. Only upside for him and the Nets.

[CelticBaller]

Guess what, the Nets didn't have Drummond and barely played Claxton & did just fine on defense in the POs without a legitimate rim protector.

I didn't say that Simmons was going to protect the rim, my point is that he's a massive upgrade over those guys.

This is what Simmons at the 5 can look like


https://youtu.be/EbezMUTAtg8

He was a beast as a "Point Center" when Embiid was injured. This was ALWAYS the issue with Ben Simmons in Philly. He could not play as the 5 with Embiid, it just wouldn't work on offense. It works on a team with KD, Irving, Bruce Brown & Seth Curry.

he was a net negative in the game lol

[ImKobe]

he was a net negative in the game lol

False. He was a -5, but they lost by 11 points. So they were in fact worse with him off the court. He had a 16.7 BPM in that game. The Jazz were 23 - 5 at that point so losing to them on the road is not really a huge deal here, Jordan Clarkson went off.

But getting back to the point, Simmons as a small ball 5 is a very good player, even with his flaws. Drummond/Claxton suck from the FT line anyway (Claxton cost them Game 1 with his two bricks at the line) so he's not making them any worse in that aspect, and they'd obviously have to bench him on offense in close games to avoid intentional fouls, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has the best season of his career next year if the Nets bring everyone back, and I do think he could give them a small boost right now if he's in good enough shape. Can't be worse than Drummond, who has the highest turnover rate on the team and who only has a slightly higher ORTG than KD in the series.

[SouBeachTalents]

He should play. Almost absurd if he doesn't. They are at home and things can't get any worse. Only upside for him and the Nets.
I still don’t understand why he didn’t at minimum play last night. I find it hard to believe after missing an entire year he wouldn’t have been able to come back 2 days earlier than expected.

[bladefd]

Ben Simmons is not a good rim protector, Claxton and Dummond are better than him at that. Robert Williams and Horford will feast. Shit Jaylen will have a clear path to the basket with Benny boy there

Simmons at 5 will never work, he's better as a 4

You can try position-less basketball, which is actually a thing.

[tpols]

I'm really interested to see Simmons at the 5. People talk spacing. Simmons was a 4 on the Sixers. When the Celtics double KD Claxton can't make them pay. He's a nice hustle guy, good guy but Simmons has a tremendous dribble playmaking advantage over him. He could be their dray. Problem is he has 1 game to establish chemistry. Its a brutal task.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He is quite possibly about to be the first player in league history to get eliminated from the playoffs in consecutive games and this is win win? Let's be real here, he has made a strong case for NBA owners to eliminate guaranteed contracts, he himself should never be given a max deal again, and oh yeah he had mental health issues that prevent him from playing a game that pays him 300k a night. This is not winning. If he could go out there and play to the full extent of his physical abilities and skills and had been playing too lead Philly or Brooklyn to a championship. Win, win, win... but instead he has become a sad joke with some very real mental health problems. He's not winning just because people on the internet use specious logic to act like he's in a good position.

[GimmeThat]

You can try position-less basketball, which is actually a thing.

Simmons at the 5 requires Griffin who's a better rebounder than Durant at the 4.

[CelticBaller]

You can try position-less basketball, which is actually a thing.

Yeah, the Celtics do it idiot

Difference is Celtics play to the players skills. Ben Simmons at the 5 would require a line up of shooters with him to help offset the defensive mismatch

[bladefd]

Yeah, the Celtics do it idiot

Difference is Celtics play to the players skills. Ben Simmons at the 5 would require a line up of shooters with him to help offset the defensive mismatch

May I mention Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Seth Curry, and Bruce Brown?

[CelticBaller]

May I mention Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Seth Curry, and Bruce Brown?
1. Bruce Brown is not a shooter
2. Kyrie will not become a spot up shooter with that huge ego of his

[Kblaze8855]

Let's be real here, he has made a strong case for NBA owners to eliminate guaranteed contracts


Not really. He’s not likely to end up on a worst contracts ever list. John Wall got 170 million in 2017 and he’s played less games since 2016 than Dirk….who has been retired for 3 of those 5 years.

Hes missed a season due to a trade demand taking a long time and what I assume is a mild back problem. He’d need to straight up vanish for a couple years to even get into the worst contract competition. He’s likely to go back to doing roughly what he did to earn it.

And his deal won’t even be that noteworthy soon. Like Conley. Eye popping the day of and then we realize the new world we entered.

Luka will have an 80 million dollar season one day unless we get expansion of teams or rosters to dilute the cap after the next digital rights deal.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Not really. He’s not likely to end up on a worst contracts ever list. John Wall got 170 million in 2017 and he’s played less games since 2016 than Dirk….who has been retired for 3 of those 5 years.

Hes missed a season due to a trade demand taking a long time and what I assume is a mild back problem. He’d need to straight up vanish for a couple years to even get into the worst contract competition. He’s likely to go back to doing roughly what he did to earn it.

And his deal won’t even be that noteworthy soon. Like Conley. Eye popping the day of and then we realize the new world we entered.

Luka will have an 80 million dollar season one day unless we get expansion of teams or rosters to dilute the cap after the next digital rights deal.

I am not talking about the dollar value I am talking about his refusal to play. Neither Philly nor Brooklyn with Harden and quite likely Brooklyn next season could possibly be happy with how they were just forced to operate. Guaranteed money will still be around but the owners can be expected to do something about this kind of crap. I am generally pro labor but this is unprofessional in the extreme. It's gone too far.

[Kblaze8855]

Doesn’t much bother me to be real. If I say I’m not playing and you won’t trade me a decision was made for me to not play. If it turns out he refuses to play for the new team that’s another story. We are gonna make it a big deal for the next few months but it only is if he doesn’t suit up to go into next season.

I don’t give a shit about the 76ers owner or the nets owner. They are around 9 billion each and nothing Simmons does hurts them. Whole thing strikes me as personal between him and a coach and perhaps a player and that is none of my business. I care only so far as my entertainment is diminished.

When he’s not playing next year I’ll care. I don’t care about a messy business breakup.

Owners don’t have to pay guaranteed money. It’s not required. Just like it isn’t in the nfl. But if you want the prizes you bid against other people who will. When everyone wants to win it’s just playing them against each other. Nfl players starting to get fully guaranteed too. Cousins. Watson now.

Owners will always want who they want and they know a non guaranteed deal won’t do it and it isn’t worth ending the league for a year or two(which is what it would take) when every seasons ratings, online impressions, and gambling factors into what they really care about. Future rights deals that increase their teams value. The poorer owners want increased Forbes value so they can sell smaller stakes for petty cash(few million or even better have a new partial owner assume debt) and the richer ones don’t care about the day to day at all.

There is a good podcast called Nothing Personal from a former team president(and son of an owner) who always talks to other higher ups and laughs about what fans think is important.

Those owners genuinely don’t give two shits about any individuals pay when the system is setup to cover it. And it is. They are about to make money like none of them believed possible just off legalized gambling. There’s more gambling money on the table than there used to be cable money and these people didn’t care when they could get 25 billion. What do you think happens when they get 75?

Ben Simmons doesn’t mean shit to these tycoons. They are eating too good to do the ugliest lockout in history to get contracts all non guaranteed. And it would have to be all of them because leaving it to each owner to decide is how they all got to be guaranteed to begin with.

This is annoying to fans but won’t mean shit to the guy who owns the nets. His team is gonna be worth 4 billion soon when they lock in a new deal. He could flip it for billions in profit. Think he votes for a lockout that gives Amazon, Apple, Disney, Turner, and Draft kings leverage? Nfl Sunday ticket is going to Amazon prime video. Think Silver isn’t trying to get them to bid on League pass? Can’t create a bidding war with no product.

Its a money train and even the guys who piss you off are a necessary evil.

[bladefd]

Owners don’t have to pay guaranteed money. It’s not required. Just like it isn’t in the nfl. But if you want the prizes you bid against other people who will. When everyone wants to win it’s just playing them against each other. Nfl players starting to get fully guaranteed too. Cousins. Watson now.

I'm not sure if that's true. I was of the understanding you cannot have a large long-term contract be non-guaranteed as in you can cut them whenever you feel like it.

Two-way contracts and 10-day contracts are non-guaranteed, but I'm referring to long-term contracts.

[Kblaze8855]

There are a number of ways to not be saddled with anyone long term it just comes down to what I said. Getting the player to accept it. And players in demand never will. The big ass deals have always been born of owners wanting to lock players up. They used to give out future ownership. Isiah Thomas had a deal to be part owner of the Pistons which was later voided.

Owners will always find a way to **** themselves. The Dolphins we’re trying to bring Brady in to play then be part owner after retirement.

The ones who wanna win will always do what the other guy won’t.

Being eligible for those long max deals doesn’t mandate offering them.

You just lose if you don’t.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I am not saying I care about the owners. I am saying that the owners have to be getting sick of players signing deals and then forcing teams not only to trade them but to trade them to a limited number of potential trade partners. If I owned the Nets I would be angry about Harden and then even angrier about Simmons. Some owners may not care about winning but those that do can't be satisfied with this. And they don't necessarily have to jeopardize profits to do something about it. The players union could see some stipulation that made it harder for a guy to force his way out of a team as preferable to a lockout standoff where the owners have deeper pockets and will still be getting that tv money

[Kblaze8855]

There is really nothing you can do about a guy who already has 75-200 million in earnings telling you he’s not gonna play unless traded to ____. Your only weapon is just letting him sit for free for years out of spite. Lots of people say they would do just that but actual owners aren’t that stupid. Spite makes you feel better it doesn’t make your business better. Just tough talk that ignores the real world.

Every solution breaks down once you get to a point where all the other teams(including the one that gets better in the demand) has to play along.

They won’t.

Thats the end of it.

Its all born of the former desire to end super long term deals that trapped them even longer. Deals used to be sometimes 10-20 years(Magic, Isiah, Larry Johnson, Chris Webber briefly before he took a player option). Then a max of 7. Now most are 4 year extensions with options. All helps the team get out of bad deals early. But guess what else? Makes everyone a potential free agent soon enough that he can **** you over by telling you he will leave for nothing.

If Steph won’t play for you but will play for me you can eat a dick. And I’m gonna lowball you too. I can get him for nothing next year. You better take this overpaid has been, these two picks in the late 20s, and hope you suck enough to draft one of Shawn Kemps kids in a couple years while me and Steph take pics with the trophy.

Say no. I dare you. We’re gonna get him anyway and keep our picks and just bring our overpaid vet off the bench. He loves it here. We donate to his moms charity. We’re gonna draft Giannis last brother with the 26th pick we keep, sign the one the Lakers used to have, and see if he wants to come play with Steph.

[Real Men Wear Green]

We saw the NFL owners collude to keep Kaepenick out when it was obvious that some of them could have used him. And that was breaking law. If and when NBA owners lawyers come up with some clause to limit the crap a guy like Simmons can pull they can make it happen. After all they managed to institute a salary cap and have other rules to keep the league more competitive. I don't know what the exact language of the role would need to be but in not a lawyer. I suspect establishing a powerful independent arbitrator to weigh in and determine an appetite punishment may be the kind of solution they come with but even if the solution doesn't work I can't see them not doing anything about this.

[Kblaze8855]

There is no solution to a problem you keep creating for yourself. As long as free agency exists with these shortened contracts the owners want a guy is always in position to let you know you can trade him or get nothing. Star vets like Lebron, KD, Davis, Leonard and others just sign 2 year deals with player options. Why do you think that is? Freedom.

You’d have to go back to the reserve clause to even seriously attempt it. Long as free agency exists the kind of star who has options will get whatever structure he needs to maintain the ability to tell you to **** off.

Making a player stay is just flat out stupid. He plays and does it poorly he still gets paid. He refuses to play….your spite is just costing you whatever he can be traded for while he does just fine. Or he plays and does his best he gets paid and walks in a year or two so you get nothing.

If someone doesn’t want to play the only punishment is to satisfy your spite at the cost of common sense. A 25 year old who hates you and is already rich will just tell you to eat a dick while you don’t pay him. You just watched Ben do it and he’s not half as secured as most superstars. Harden is gonna make a quarter billion off adidas before he’s done to go with his quarter billion from the nba he’s already made. You think your fines will stop him if he hates you?

They can afford to be spiteful too. They’re more cash rich than some of these owners. It’s spite vs spite and your side is trying to run a business while they’re prime hundred millionaires who will ball off the court till you come to your senses.

All you can do is be mad about it.

Players who want out bad enough manage to get it done even in the nfl that has franchise tags and mostly non guaranteed deals….and signing bonus teams can demand back later.

Deebo Samuel will get traded. Watson just picked his team and got the most guaranteed money ever with 23 accusations. If the nfl system can’t stop player freedom nothing the nba does will do it.

The nba needs its players way more than the nfl needs theirs.

[PP34Deuce]

Charles Barkley had the best insight on this situation. If Ben was really going to play 100% he would have played Game 3 when they were done 0-2. To wait and see shows he doesn't want to play.

I also think regardless, Game 4 against an elevated Celtics defense, it wouldn't be smart as they are hungry and will look to close this serious out tonight.

Brooklyn needs new coaching and one more year. Steve Nash is not it. Brooklyn has talent and then Joe Harris comes back next season you have sharp shooters, penetrators, and veterans. They need a better coach and Ben Simmons to to play the draymond green/marcus smart role.

[PP34Deuce]

There is no solution to a problem you keep creating for yourself. As long as free agency exists with these shortened contracts the owners want a guy is always in position to let you know you can trade him or get nothing. Star vets like Lebron, KD, Davis, Leonard and others just sign 2 year deals with player options. Why do you think that is? Freedom.

You’d have to go back to the reserve clause to even seriously attempt it. Long as free agency exists the kind of star who has options will get whatever structure he needs to maintain the ability to tell you to **** off.

Making a player stay is just flat out stupid. He plays and does it poorly he still gets paid. He refuses to play….your spite is just costing you whatever he can be traded for while he does just fine. Or he plays and does his best he gets paid and walks in a year or two so you get nothing.

If someone doesn’t want to play the only punishment is to satisfy your spite at the cost of common sense. A 25 year old who hates you and is already rich will just tell you to eat a dick while you don’t pay him. You just watched Ben do it and he’s not half as secured as most superstars. Harden is gonna make a quarter billion off adidas before he’s done to go with his quarter billion from the nba he’s already made. You think your fines will stop him if he hates you?

They can afford to be spiteful too. They’re more cash rich than some of these owners. It’s spite vs spite and your side is trying to run a business while they’re prime hundred millionaires who will ball off the court till you come to your senses.

All you can do is be mad about it.

Players who want out bad enough manage to get it done even in the nfl that has franchise tags and mostly non guaranteed deals….and signing bonus teams can demand back later.

Deebo Samuel will get traded. Watson just picked his team and got the most guaranteed money ever with 23 accusations. If the nfl system can’t stop player freedom nothing the nba does will do it.

The nba needs its players way more than the nfl needs theirs.

I wonder if the next CBA will the player option be examined. Lebron and KD made it popular but they also produced and had availability. Player option benefits injury prone players too.