This Series PROVES you need Playmakers, not ISO scorers

[8Ball]

This series definitively proves what we knew all along, you need a playmaker, facilitator, distributer, shot caller, floor general to win NBA playoff games.


KD and Kyrie had no idea how to get their team involved, just run iso plays, hope to score or dump it off to an open man. It was painfully obvious for 4 straight games that they had no idea how to adjust during the game, or game to game. By game 4 they keep running the same plays and hope both of them get hot and drop 30 points for a win. It didn't happen, sweep.


Casual fans don't understand this. It's all about PPGz and iso talent to them. Clueless. Hopeless.


If Nets could trade Kyrie Irving for prime Scottie Pippen they would do it in a heart beat. Not even a second thought.

[warriorfan]

Yeah they need a simplistic drive and kick offense that gets you outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

Sounds legit

[8Ball]

Yeah they need a simplistic drive and kick offense that gets you outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

Sounds legit

LeBron beat a 73 win team and the unanimous MVP.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah they need a simplistic drive and kick offense that gets you outscored by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

Sounds legit
That drive and kick offense defeated a 73 win team.

[John_Connor]

finals mvps last 30 years


1991 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1992 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1993 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1994 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1995 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1996 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1997 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1998 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1999 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2000 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2001 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender kobe)

2002 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2003 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2004 - Billups (team defense/depth title)

2005 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2006 - Wade (iso scorer/defender)

2007 - Parker (team defense/depth title)

2008 - Pierce (team defense/depth title)

2009 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2010 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2011 - dirk (iso scorer/team depth title)

2012 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender wade)

2013 - Lebron (playmaker/team depth/fluke shot title)

2014 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2015 - Iguodala (iso scorer/defender)

2016 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer kyrie/fluke shot/suspension rigging)

2017 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2018 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2019 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2020 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender AD)

2021 - Giannis (iso scorer/defender)



lol wut

[John_Connor]

and tatum = iso scorer/defender

but the Celtics would fall under the 2011 dirk iso scorer team/depth category

[SouBeachTalents]

finals mvps last 30 years


1991 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1992 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1993 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1994 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1995 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1996 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1997 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1998 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1999 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2000 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2001 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender kobe)

2002 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2003 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2004 - Billups (team defense/depth title)

2005 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2006 - Wade (iso scorer/defender)

2007 - Parker (team defense/depth title)

2008 - Pierce (team defense/depth title)

2009 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2010 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2011 - dirk (iso scorer/team depth title)

2012 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender wade)

2013 - Lebron (playmaker/team depth/fluke shot title)

2014 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2015 - Iguodala (iso scorer/defender)

2016 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer kyrie/fluke shot/suspension rigging)

2017 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2018 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2019 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2020 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender AD)

2021 - Giannis (iso scorer/defender)



lol wut
LeBron, Shaq & Duncan all with more than Kobe.

[8Ball]

finals mvps last 30 years


1991 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1992 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1993 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1994 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1995 - Hakeem (iso scorer/defender)

1996 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1997 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1998 - Jordan (iso scorer/defender)

1999 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2000 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2001 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender kobe)

2002 - Shaq (iso scorer with iso scorer/defender Kobe)

2003 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2004 - Billups (team defense/depth title)

2005 - Duncan (iso scorer/defender)

2006 - Wade (iso scorer/defender)

2007 - Parker (team defense/depth title)

2008 - Pierce (team defense/depth title)

2009 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2010 - Kobe (iso scorer/defender)

2011 - dirk (iso scorer/team depth title)

2012 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender wade)

2013 - Lebron (playmaker/team depth/fluke shot title)

2014 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2015 - Iguodala (iso scorer/defender)

2016 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer kyrie/fluke shot/suspension rigging)

2017 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2018 - Durant (iso scorer/team depth title)

2019 - Kawhi (iso scorer/defender)

2020 - Lebron (playmaker with iso scorer/defender AD)

2021 - Giannis (iso scorer/defender)



lol wut

95% of those teams had playmakers doing facilitating.

A bunch of Kobesque iso scorers on 1 team = nothing.

[John_Connor]

LeBron, Shaq & Duncan all with more than Kobe.

yeah if you count 1999, 2005 for Duncan or 2001 for shaq or any of lebrons but I could make an argument they didn't deserve them cause of anomalies/ring chasing/colluding/do or die bail outs/roids/cheating/lockouts or bubbles or teammates being more valuable


you can't take away either of kobes

[John_Connor]

95% of those teams had playmakers doing facilitating.

A bunch of Kobesque iso scorers on 1 team = nothing.

obviously every team has a point guard. but they weren't the driving force for those teams. iso scoring was


dynamic scoring/defenders have been the most important piece of a title team for 30 years

[AlternativeAcc.]

They need better players

They traded their 2nd option for a guy who didn't play

Imagine the sun's traded Chris Paul for Wendell Carter...

[SouBeachTalents]

yeah if you count 1999 for Duncan or 2001 for shaq or any of lebrons but I could make an argument they didn't deserve them cause of anomalies/ring chasing/colluding/do or die bail outs/roids/cheating/lockouts or bubbles etc...


you can't take away either of kobes
That sounds like a bunch of excuses. The facts are over Kobe's 20 seasons in the league he didn't even finish top 3 in FMVP's during his career, and to top it all off he was surpassed by his own teammate, his biggest conference rival, and his fanbases most despised player :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Lol @ calling Kobe a defender in 2009 & 2010.

[John_Connor]

That sounds like a bunch of excuses. The facts are over Kobe's 20 seasons in the league he didn't even finish top 3 in FMVP's during his career, and to top it all off he was surpassed by his own teammate, his biggest conference rival, and his fanbases most despised player :lol

theyre all valid excuses

1999 = lockout fake season

2001 = Kobe was better vs the 2 best teams

2005 = Manu was infinitely better in the 4 wins

2012 = colluded big 3/ring chase/lockout

2013 = collude with a 4th/that 4th guy saves season

2016 = colluded big 3/kyrie series winning shot/draymond suspension

2020 = collusion/tampering/rigging AD/5 month break/bubble/no travel or fans



these don't count. sorry but we give asterisks to bill Russell for his titles just cause he played in an era where there was less teams and less black players. that wasn't illegal. that wasn't cheating. that wasn't an anomaly. if he gets asterisks then those guys get VOIDS

[John_Connor]

Lol @ calling Kobe a defender in 2009 & 2010.

he defended very well in the playoffs those years. his defense and rebounding vs Boston was great


yes he picked his spots during the regular season by 2010 due to knee issues but he was 1st team all defense for a reason. when he turned it on he shut guys down

[3ba11]

.
Everyone was better playmaker than Pippen



Career APG

Westbrook..... 8.6
Rondo........... 8.0
Kyrie............ 5.7
Wade............ 5.4
Jordan.......... 5.3
Pippen.......... 5.2


Among 90's sidekicks, only Pippen failed to get elite ppg, rpg or apg in any series..

Every other 90's sidekick was infact a 1b with many series of elite stats and domination.

Pippen is the only sidekick that was more of an athlete/transition player and not a go-to player capable of dominating stats like every other sidekick

If the Bulls needed more than 7 assists, MJ was the only option - he averaged 10 apg on numerous occasions like the upset against the 89' Knicks or the 91' Finals, or his 25-game stint at PG in 89' (30/9/11).. The Associated Press said he was a better PG than Magic after just 10 games at the new position (goat talent)

[SouBeachTalents]

theyre all valid excuses

1999 = lockout fake season

2001 = Kobe was better vs the 2 best teams

2005 = Manu was infinitely better in the 4 wins

2012 = colluded big 3/ring chase/lockout

2013 = collude with a 4th/that 4th guy saves season

2016 = colluded big 3/kyrie series winning shot/draymond suspension

2020 = collusion/tampering/rigging AD/5 month break/bubble/no travel or fans



these don't count. sorry but we give asterisks to bill Russell for his titles just cause he played in an era where there was less teams and less black players. that wasn't illegal. that wasn't cheating. that wasn't an anomaly. if he gets asterisks then those guys get VOIDS
Care to post Kobe & Gasol's numbers from their 4 wins in 2010? I'm honestly too lazy to look it up, but from what I remember Pau, like Manu, put up (arguably) better and more efficient production.

And I love how Shaq's 2002 ring doesn't get an asterisk with one of the biggest bail out shots ever and the most infamously rigged series in sports history :lol

[John_Connor]

Care to post Kobe & Gasol's numbers from their 4 wins in 2010? I'm honestly too lazy to look it up, but from what I remember Pau, like Manu, put up (arguably) better and more efficient production.

And I love how Shaq's 2002 ring doesn't get an asterisk with one of the biggest bail outs ever and the most infamously rigged series in sports history :lol

Manu and Duncan had the same scoring average and Manu had more assists


kobe probly had 10 more ppg and more assists. get lost lol

[tpols]

:oldlol:

This series proves chemistry and defense matter. The Nets haven't had a cohesive lineup all year long. I remember when KD was out and Kyrie could only play road games a guy named Cam Thomas was a beast for us. Now he doesn't get a single playoff minute. Million other guys in and out of rotation. Nash also can't coach defense.

Celtics otoh have many years and 100s of games of chemistry. And they play great defense.

Despite this the Nets were a miracle from losing game 1, were up 15+ in game 2, and couldve won tonight if KD could hit a single big shot down the stretch. They lacked chemistry and defense yet it still took a big time Durant choke for them to lose this badly.

[1987_Lakers]

:oldlol:

This series proves chemistry and defense matter..

For sure.

Kyrie failed in Boston as a #1 option, team made the conference finals without him. And is failing in Brooklyn despite having KD.

More proof that LeBron won with a cancer in 2016.

[3ba11]

For sure.

Kyrie failed in Boston as a #1 option, team made the conference finals without him. And is failing in Brooklyn despite having KD.

More proof that LeBron won with a cancer in 2016.


Anytime Kyrie was healthy, his team was the juggernaut like the 16' Cavs, 18' Celtics (when he was healthy) and the 21' Nets (up 2-0 on Giannis)

But teams don't realize that you have to play Kyrie 2 weeks on and 1 week off.. all year.... then you can win like other load managers have done (19' Kawhi)

[n00bie]

Celtics has always been a scary team. They're a combination of team play combined with stars.

Their defense is extremely underrated.

[1987_Lakers]

Anytime Kyrie was healthy, his team was the juggernaut like the 16' Cavs, 18' Celtics (when he was healthy) and the 21' Nets (up 2-0 on Giannis)

But teams don't realize that you have to play Kyrie 2 weeks on and 1 week off.. all year.... then you can win like other load managers have done (19' Kawhi)


Team makes the ECF without him in 2018

2019 Celtics:
37-30 record with Kyrie
12-3 record without Kyrie

Carry on

[SouBeachTalents]

Anytime Kyrie was healthy, his team was the juggernaut like the 16' Cavs, 18' Celtics (when he was healthy) and the 21' Nets (up 2-0 on Giannis)

But teams don't realize that you have to play Kyrie 2 weeks on and 1 week off.. all year.... then you can win like other load managers have done (19' Kawhi)
Kyrie played in 29 games all season :roll: The facts are in the 5 years since he's left Cleveland, Kyrie has legitimately played poorly in the playoffs.

[1987_Lakers]

Team makes the ECF without him in 2018

2019 Celtics:
37-30 record with Kyrie
12-3 record without Kyrie

Carry on

To add to this, Nets were 14-15 in the regular season games he played this year.

[Jasper]

I never liked the makeup of the Nets.
Two players that are consider alpha sharing the ball, and neither taking a back seat.

Irving when he joined the Nets thought it was his team.
Durant when he joined him thought it was his team.
from that point on Durant should of dictated how things flowed... and quite frankly the Warriors might of fvcked him up.
If I was Durant I would bail , and reset his career , because quite frankly he has about one year left to get a chip.

[Baller789]

More proof that LeBron won with a cancer in 2016.

Another fallacy from the fake Laker fan.

[RRR3]

Lol @ calling Kobe a defender in 2009 & 2010.
Makes more sense than calling Duncan an iso scorer and LeBron not.

[8Ball]

I never liked the makeup of the Nets.
Two players that are consider alpha sharing the ball, and neither taking a back seat.

Irving when he joined the Nets thought it was his team.
Durant when he joined him thought it was his team.
from that point on Durant should of dictated how things flowed... and quite frankly the Warriors might of fvcked him up.
If I was Durant I would bail , and reset his career , because quite frankly he has about one year left to get a chip.
A bunch of alpha scorers have zero clue how to run an offense nor facilitate one.

[FultzNationRISE]

Been sayin this for over a decade.

People think you can just throw a bunch of ppg iso heroes onto a squad and it’s gonna dominate. I remember people insisting Melo and Amare would be an instant contender regardless of who they were surrounded with. Hell, people thought that about Melo and Iverson. Im sure these same people would have thought Arenas and Westbrook together is some kind of Dream Team.

I mean it was SO OBVIOUS putting Harden, Irving and Durant together was a debacle waiting to happen. Those guys dont play with the kind of precision and effort you see on championship teams. Theyre not leaders. They have no grit. Their IQs are low. They dont elevate teammates (Harden gets a few assists but his energy is shit).

Like what made people so convinced this was a great idea?? It’s just so strange to me when so many people cant see something so obvious.

Not even tryin to be all “I told you so”, but it just really has me scratching my head sometimes.

[8Ball]

A bunch of alpha scorers have zero clue how to run an offense nor facilitate one.

More context, they do know how to run an offense in the regular season, but it's not the same in the playoffs when the other team knows your playbook and tendencies.

You have to floor general at a higher level.

[Wally450]

Anytime Kyrie was healthy, his team was the juggernaut like the 16' Cavs, 18' Celtics (when he was healthy) and the 21' Nets (up 2-0 on Giannis)


Ohh boy.... :facepalm

[8Ball]

Been sayin this for over a decade.

People think you can just throw a bunch of ppg iso heroes onto a squad and it’s gonna dominate. I remember people insisting Melo and Amare would be an instant contender regardless of who they were surrounded with. Hell, people thought that about Melo and Iverson. Im sure these same people would have thought Arenas and Westbrook together is some kind of Dream Team.

I mean it was SO OBVIOUS putting Harden, Irving and Durant together was a debacle waiting to happen. Those guys dont play with the kind of precision and effort you see on championship teams. Theyre not leaders. They have no grit. Their IQs are low. They dont elevate teammates (Harden gets a few assists but his energy is shit).

Like what made people so convinced this was a great idea?? It’s just so strange to me when so many people cant see something so obvious.

Not even tryin to be all “I told you so”, but it just really has me scratching my head sometimes.

Because they love Jordan and hate LeBron. It's that simple.


So retard arguments get adopted to denigrate LeBron. Jordan was never a facilitator so by winning 6 championships it was assumed by the idiots that floor general / facilitation / passing is overrated ability. Scottie Pippen PPGz wasn't high so he wasn't important.


To the LeBron fans it was obvious to us all day, every day, how important being a floor general is. Throwing elite iso PPGz players together and they suddenly run into a brick wall when they don't have a facilitator on the team that can command the offense.

[FultzNationRISE]

Because they love Jordan and hate LeBron. It's that simple.


So retard arguments get adopted to denigrate LeBron. Jordan was never a facilitator so by winning 6 championships it was assumed by the idiots that floor general / facilitation / passing is overrated ability. Scottie Pippen PPGz wasn't high so he wasn't important.


To the LeBron fans it was obvious to us all day, every day, how important being a floor general is. Throwing elite iso PPGz players together and they suddenly run into a brick wall when they don't have a facilitator on the team that can command the offense.

I agree with you 8ball.

If we’re being honest, Lebron Haters are low key the cause of a lot of the world’s problems. Something has to be done about it. We need a solution.


A Final Solution.

[8Ball]

I agree with you 8ball.

If we’re being honest, Lebron Haters are low key the cause of a lot of the world’s problems. Something has to be done about it. We need a solution.


A Final Solution.

The Final Solution will be when Bron wins the most important individual award in all of NBA basketball, the all time reg points leader.

This is the award that only 1 player holds.

[ShawkFactory]

:oldlol:

This series proves chemistry and defense matter. The Nets haven't had a cohesive lineup all year long. I remember when KD was out and Kyrie could only play road games a guy named Cam Thomas was a beast for us. Now he doesn't get a single playoff minute. Million other guys in and out of rotation. Nash also can't coach defense.

Celtics otoh have many years and 100s of games of chemistry. And they play great defense.

Despite this the Nets were a miracle from losing game 1, were up 15+ in game 2, and couldve won tonight if KD could hit a single big shot down the stretch. They lacked chemistry and defense yet it still took a big time Durant choke for them to lose this badly.

That was proven a long time ago. Refusing to acknowledge something doesn’t make it not there.

[John_Connor]

the last 7 posts ITT minus wally are one person. most likely a 5'8 failed Jewish lawyer with psychosis

[ShawkFactory]

the last 7 posts ITT minus wally are one person. most likely a 5'8 failed Jewish lawyer with psychosis

You think I'm one of the alts?

[FultzNationRISE]

the last 7 posts ITT minus wally are one person. most likely a 5'8 failed Jewish lawyer with psychosis

You think I'm one of the alts?

[John_Connor]

the last 7 posts ITT minus wally are one person. most likely a 5'8 failed Jewish lawyer with psychosis

You think I'm one of the alts?