Jayson Tatum vs Luka Doncic

[1987_Lakers]

Who's the better player?

[John_Connor]

right now it's debatable. it's basically 2001 kobe vs 1986 bird. they're also pretty close all time in terms of value even while being different players

[FultzNationRISE]

Theyre pretty similar in style and close in value. Tatum feels more consistent, Luka has the higher ceiling and the lower floor. But Luka tends to play toward his ceiling in the playoffs so I would favor him individually in a finals.

Dallas-Boston in general would be a great series. I think the C’s have the slightly better team overall. I assume they would also have home court in that match? Not positive tho. So I would pick the C’s but it could clearly go either way.

[SouBeachTalents]

right now it's debatable. it's basically 2001 kobe vs 1986 bird. they're also pretty close all time in terms of value even while being different players
‘86 Bird > ‘01 Kobe

[ArbitraryWater]

Luka, not particularly close.

Luka is the BITW.

He just plays the game at a different pace.


Tatum still looked a little rushed and not sure what he was doing a couple times this series.

Luka is always in control. Always dominating.

[John_Connor]

‘86 Bird > ‘01 Kobe

that's debatable. but I doubt 86 bird would outplay peak shaq in a playoff run

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

I'm taking Tatum because he doesn't ballhog quite as much, he's the better shooter, massively better defender, better athlete.

The defense gap is bigger then the offensive gap.

Luka is never going to shut stars down like Tatum just did Durant. Tatum would shut or slow down luka if he guarded him in a playoff series as well.

[ArbitraryWater]

that's debatable. but I doubt 86 bird would outplay peak shaq in a playoff run

kobe didnt.

[John_Connor]

Luka, not particularly close.

Luka is the BITW.

He just plays the game at a different pace.


Tatum still looked a little rushed and not sure what he was doing a couple times this series.

Luka is always in control. Always dominating.

the impossibility to matchup with tatum is underrated. it's worth a lot more than his basic skill set or athletic ability. like Kenny Smith said if you put someone big on him he can't stick with him and if you put someone small on him he bullies them. it's the same with luka.. obviously luka is the more talented offensive player but when you factor in defense and his unique matchup problem it brings him closer to Lukas overall value

[John_Connor]

kobe didnt.

yes he did

[ArbitraryWater]

yes he did

how is that possible when kobe did 25/8/6 on 42% in the finals and shaq 33/16/5 on 57% ? :lol

[ImKobe]

Luka's far better on offense, it's not even close man. The defense doesn't make up for that kind of a gap. Luka is generational.

[FultzNationRISE]

I'm taking Tatum because he doesn't ballhog quite as much, he's the better shooter, massively better defender, better athlete.

The defense gap is bigger then the offensive gap.

Luka is never going to shut stars down like Tatum just did Durant. Tatum would shut or slow down luka if he guarded him in a playoff series as well.

As individual scorers/defenders, it’s probably close. But Luka raises the team offense higher. Tatum isnt really tasked with doing that, in his case he benefits from having other playmakers, and a decent post scorer like Horford. He can mainly focus on his own scoring instead of running the offense from the point, and that works well for Boston. But if you give them identical teammates, Luka’s team will be better offensively. Theres really no doubt about that.

[Phoenix]

My gut tells me Luka is a better floor raiser and can do more with less, Tatum has a better team around him. Two great young franchise talents no matter who you go with.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Luka.

Luka has a generational feel for the game. Tatum is very good overall. But Lukas natural feel and IQ are off the charts. He's insanely clutch too.

[k0kakw0rld]

Tatum is better defensively but Luka can control an offense far better than Tatum can dream of.

[tpols]

Luka is better but Tatum is close. Lukas confidence is unlike anything I've ever seen. Some players shy away from big moments, some are too aggressive, Luka just buries mfers. And then talks shit after he does it.

[Manny98]

Right now I would give a slight edge to Tatum because defense and I prefer his way of scoring in the flow of the offense rather than dominating the ball like Luka which could have a negative effect on his teammates

[bizil]

The thing with Luka is you are getting more of the Magic-Lebron-Oscar-Bird type of feel for the game. Tatum NO DOUBT has stepped up to the next level. At some point, he's gonna be regarded as the best SF in the world. But Luka will BE REGARDED as the best PG in the world. Hell is arguably is right now.

And for those knocking Luka being ball dominant, CONSIDER two things. First of all he's a PG. SECONDLY, look at the talent he plays with. In comparison to other playoff teams. None of his teammates are All Star caliber. LET ALONE superstar-All NBA level guys. So Luka NEEDS to be ball dominant for Dallas to be at their best.

You have a legendary top 5 FLOOR GENERAL of all time in J Kidd as the coach. He WANTS Luka to play that way. So as of now, give me Luka. Only edge Tatum has on him is defense. And the SCARY PART with Luka is gonna be when he gets to play with a perennial All Star OR superstar type. The guys similar to him (Magic, Bron, Oscar, Bird) ALL got that chance. And ALL of them won at least one ring.

[FultzNationRISE]

The thing with Luka is you are getting more of the Magic-Lebron-Oscar-Bird type of feel for the game. Tatum NO DOUBT has stepped up to the next level. At some point, he's gonna be regarded as the best SF in the world. But Luka will BE REGARDED as the best PG in the world. Hell is arguably is right now.

And for those knocking Luka being ball dominant, CONSIDER two things. First of all he's a PG. SECONDLY, look at the talent he plays with. In comparison to other playoff teams. None of his teammates are All Star caliber. LET ALONE superstar-All NBA level guys. So Luka NEEDS to be ball dominant for Dallas to be at their best.

You have a legendary top 5 FLOOR GENERAL of all time in J Kidd as the coach. He WANTS Luka to play that way. So as of now, give me Luka. Only edge Tatum has on him is defense. And the SCARY PART with Luka is gonna be when he gets to play with a perennial All Star OR superstar type. The guys similar to him (Magic, Bron, Oscar, Bird) ALL got that chance. And ALL of them won at least one ring.

I'm not sure how many superstar guys are going to want to play with him tbh. His style of play quickly alienated Porzingis, and I suspect it would do likewise for most guys who are used to getting a lot of touches.

Luka's usage is the highest in the league by FAR (Harden was in that ballpark for a while but I think he's declined since). It may be effective and it may be the best way for the Mavs to win... but it's not a style that's gonna attract other guys used to having the ball in their hands.

If there was a superstar like Dwight Howard still around, it might be a good fit. Altho even he always wanted more touches than he deserved. Maybe a very quick-trigger guy like Booker could work.

It's kind of redundant to add another superstar to the lineup. I think they'd be better off just finding the best fitting role players they can.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Luka Doncic+4 Maxi Klebers would be a dynasty.

[ArbitraryWater]

Tatum is a superstar.


Luka is a generational talent.

[90sgoat]

If there was a superstar like Dwight Howard still around, it might be a good fit.

We're going to steal Gobert:oldlol:

I mean, he is already used to not getting touches.

[90sgoat]

Tatum is a superstar.


Luka is a generational talent.

Yeah, I'm not going to comment on Tatum because I haven't seen him play recently, but I don't think he has that extremely high floor that Luka has. In terms of going off as scorers, they're probably equal, but Luka contributes more in all other aspects.

[FultzNationRISE]

We're going to steal Gobert:oldlol:

I mean, he is already used to not getting touches.


Maybe, but Xiao Yao You's opinion notwithstanding, Gobert isnt really a 'superstar.'

He's just paid like one :lol

[imdaman99]

Luka is better but I would rather have Tatum as a teammate. Seems like Luka's teammates get nothing but killed as he dominates the ball.

[iamgine]

I think obviously Luka. And it's not close.

[GrayGoat]

Tatum and it isn’t close. The impact isn’t close

[theman93]

Tatum.

[ArbitraryWater]

So apparently Tatum lept Luka as a player this year?


Lol.

[FultzNationRISE]

So apparently Tatum lept Luka as a player this year?


Lol.


It’s a prisoner of the moment thing after the great series Tatum just had.

Happens a lot on here.

Altho hes not THAT far off if he keeps playing like he did in round 1. But Luka is a clear arm’s distance ahead.

[theman93]

I'll take the guy who's just as efficient of a shooter, who's just as capable of offensive explosions, and who is also easily the better defender that can check the opposition's primary offensive threat. But that's just me.

[FultzNationRISE]

I'll take the guy who's just as efficient of a shooter, who's just as capable of offensive explosions, and who is also easily the better defender that can check the opposition's primary offensive threat. But that's just me.

Yeah but it’s not just about the numbers. It’s about controlling the game and directing the team accordingly. A lot of guys have better numbers than Chris Paul, but dont impact the game the same way.

Luka is like a 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.

Just... let that sink in.

A 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.

[GrayGoat]

Yeah but it’s not just about the numbers. It’s about controlling the game and directing the team accordingly. A lot of guys have better numbers than Chris Paul, but dont impact the game the same way.

Luka is like a 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.
Just... let that sink in.

A 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.


Chris Paul hasn’t won shit tho

[FultzNationRISE]

Chris Paul hasn’t won shit tho

Yeah but he’s not 6’8 and he’s not clutch (in the very last moments). Luka is a superior version.

Whats more, I think very few if any teams take a current Tatum over a prime Chris Paul.

[Wally450]

I think Luka's got the slight advantage. But if Tatum continues to take another step forward, he could overtake Luka.

I expect them both to be in the run for MVP next season.

[theman93]

Yeah but it’s not just about the numbers. It’s about controlling the game and directing the team accordingly. A lot of guys have better numbers than Chris Paul, but dont impact the game the same way.

Luka is like a 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.

Just... let that sink in.

A 6’8 Chris Paul that’s clutch.

Nah he doesn't draw that comparison because he doesn't play defense to the level of Chris Paul. You see that's the hole in Luka's game - defense. Tatum doesn't have a hole in his game.

[FultzNationRISE]

Nah he doesn't draw that comparison because he doesn't play defense to the level of Chris Paul. You see that's the hole in Luka's game - defense. Tatum doesn't have a hole in his game.

Youre making too much of that. First of all Tatum got torched in game 1 by Irving, and Durant dropped big numbers on him in game 4. Yes there were times Tatum and other Celtics bodied him up nicely and threw him off his game, but first of all he didnt cover either guy exclusively, nor did he lock them down exclusively. Top offensive players rarely guard each other anymore except at the end of games. Luka is playing very good team defense, and it’s reflected in the Mavs high defensive rating.

Elevating a team offensively all game is more important than locking down Bruce Brown for most of it and switching to KD for a handful of possessions.

Respectfully.

[1987_Lakers]

Luka's far better on offense, it's not even close man. The defense doesn't make up for that kind of a gap. Luka is generational.

For once I agree with you, although I woudn't say "far better on offense". But to me Luka has a clear edge there, he has shown he can run an offense by himself with great results, that to me is more valuable than what Tatum brings to the table.

[theman93]

Youre making too much of that. First of all Tatum got torched in game 1 by Irving, and Durant dropped big numbers on him in game 4. Yes there were times Tatum and other Celtics bodied him up nicely and threw him off his game, but first of all he didnt cover either guy exclusively, nor did he lock them down exclusively. Top offensive players rarely guard each other anymore except at the end of games. Luka is playing very good team defense, and it’s reflected in the Mavs high defensive rating.

Elevating a team offensively all game is more important than locking down Bruce Brown for most of it and switching to KD for a handful of possessions.

Respectfully.

This is a self-refutation. He couldn't have been torched game 1 by Irving nor could Durant have dropped big numbers on him in game 4 if he is only switching for, "a handful of possessions." Btw, 39 on an inefficient 13/31 torching is not even close to the Durant we are used to seeing.

Give me the guy who can dominate on both sides of the ball.

[FultzNationRISE]

This is a self-refutation. He couldn't have been torched game 1 by Irving nor could Durant have dropped big numbers on him in game 4 if he is only switching for, "a handful of possessions." Btw, 39 on an inefficient 13/31 torching is not even close to the Durant we are used to seeing.

Give me the guy who can dominate on both sides of the ball.


But Im saying, Irving and Durant scored a fair share of points over him even tho he wasnt guarding them all the time. It’s not a big deal, they did it to other guys too. When those guys are on theyre pretty hard to stop. And to some extent when they were off it was because they shut themselves down as much as the Celtics defense did. They put up a lot of bricks on decent looks throughout the series.

Anyway here’s hoping Luka and Tatum meet in the finals, because that would be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, and I think wed get an answer to a lot of these questions.

[theman93]

But Im saying, Irving and Durant scored a fair share of points over him even tho he wasnt guarding them all the time. It’s not a big deal, they did it to other guys too. When those guys are on theyre pretty hard to stop. And to some extent when they were off it was because they shut themselves down as much as the Celtics defense did. They put up a lot of bricks on decent looks throughout the series.

Anyway here’s hoping they meet in the finals, because that would be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, and I think wed get an answer to a lot of these questions.

Right, but what I'm saying is if you want to credit Kyrie and Durant in games 1 and 4 respectively, then by your own logic you need to credit Tatum in the other 3 games for shutting them down. We are never going to have a discussion about Luka dominating generational offensive players on the defensive end in a playoff game, let alone an entire series.

But I think we'll get that Finals matchup one day.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Youre making too much of that. First of all Tatum got torched in game 1 by Irving, and Durant dropped big numbers on him in game 4. Yes there were times Tatum and other Celtics bodied him up nicely and threw him off his game, but first of all he didnt cover either guy exclusively, nor did he lock them down exclusively. Top offensive players rarely guard each other anymore except at the end of games. Luka is playing very good team defense, and it’s reflected in the Mavs high defensive rating.

Elevating a team offensively all game is more important than locking down Bruce Brown for most of it and switching to KD for a handful of possessions.

Respectfully.

Durant never actually scored on Tatum, if he did it was like 25% FG or something embarrassing. He scored through switches only.

Tatum's presence damn near gave Durant a stroke. He wasn't scoring on him at all.

[theman93]

Durant never actually scored on Tatum, if he did it was like 25% FG or something embarrassing. He scored through switches only.

Tatum's presence damn near gave Durant a stroke. He wasn't scoring on him at all.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/bGqn5Vo8T2yFPTzipSZsVw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/FA39yzPHJTY2QONwkN5uOw--~B/aD00MjA7dz02MzA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/billboard_547/079110a61bf36b6ceb9e8bd5c0e3884d

[bizil]

I'm not sure how many superstar guys are going to want to play with him tbh. His style of play quickly alienated Porzingis, and I suspect it would do likewise for most guys who are used to getting a lot of touches.

Luka's usage is the highest in the league by FAR (Harden was in that ballpark for a while but I think he's declined since). It may be effective and it may be the best way for the Mavs to win... but it's not a style that's gonna attract other guys used to having the ball in their hands.

If there was a superstar like Dwight Howard still around, it might be a good fit. Altho even he always wanted more touches than he deserved. Maybe a very quick-trigger guy like Booker could work.

It's kind of redundant to add another superstar to the lineup. I think they'd be better off just finding the best fitting role players they can.

REDUNDANT??? Redundant are having guys who do the SAME SHIT and can't make it work for whatever reason. Luka and Tatum on the same team would work TREMENDOUSLY! Luka and KD on the same squad would be SICK!!! Luka and the Joker!!! OMG!!! Luka and Embid would be nasty! Luka and Curry! Come on now that would work tremendously! Luka would TAILOR HIS GAME to play with those guys! It would unlock his passing ability even more. Teams couldn't load up on Luka as much with guys like that on his team.

And u CAN'T JUST surround Luka with mere role players. And expect him to win rings. U SURROUND HIM with the best talent possible THAT WILL FIT! That means u SEEK superstar level guys who could FIT! And work your way down from there.

[tanibanana]

I hope they’ll face each other in the Finals.

[ZionDunks]

Tatum has accomplished a lot more.

[Sulico]

It's Luka.

Tatum is a nice 2 way star, but Luka have talent to be generational player.

[Phoenix]

I'll take the guy who's just as efficient of a shooter, who's just as capable of offensive explosions, and who is also easily the better defender that can check the opposition's primary offensive threat. But that's just me.

If you consider Tatum and Luka equal just in terms of scoring acumen, then it comes down to Tatum's superior defense vs Luka's 'rising tide lifts all boats' facilitating. Luke can get you 50 wins with a couple of shooters around him and some defensive roleplayers, not sure you can say the same for Tatum. Guess like much of this stuff it's about what one subjectively values.

[LeCola]

Doncic is new Lebron.

Just like Lebron's teams can only play Lebronball, his team can only play Doncicball.

However, he is a natural GOAT candidate (Chosen One) just like young Lebron.

Lebron failed to reach his potential, maybe Doncic can.

However, Tatum's maximum level that he can reach seems top 15 or maybe top 10.

[ArbitraryWater]

Doncic is new Lebron.

Just like Lebron's teams can only play Lebronball, his team can only play Doncicball.

However, he is a natural GOAT candidate (Chosen One) just like young Lebron.

Lebron failed to reach his potential, maybe Doncic can.

However, Tatum's maximum level that he can reach seems top 15 or maybe top 10.


:oldlol:



LeCoka going for biggest clown award

[Axe]

If results matter, then tatum has a better resume because he's been to the conference finals for more than once.

[LeCola]

:oldlol:



LeCoka going for biggest clown award

He has potential to be GOAT but he become a top 10 player, so he couldn't reach his potential.

Give back that account to you dad, kid.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5usx4mQg6x8/hqdefault.jpg

[Sulico]

He has potential to be GOAT but he become a top 10 player, so he couldn't reach his potential.

Give back that account to you dad, kid.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5usx4mQg6x8/hqdefault.jpg

I don't like Lebron either, but if you don't aknowledge that there is consensus on him being top2 player and in GOAT conversation, you just delusional.

[Gudo]

:oldlol:



LeCoka going for biggest clown award

Lebron's potential was GOAT. He came in calling himself the chosen one and the king. Then people should expect nothing less. 2011 happened. Team jumping, superteaming/shortcuts happened, bad leadership in LA happened. Yes, he did not reach his potential.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron's potential was GOAT. He came in calling himself the chosen one and the king. Then people should expect nothing less. 2011 happened. Team jumping, superteaming/shortcuts happened, bad leadership in LA happened. Yes, he did not reach his potential.

many players have "potential" to become something.

that doesnt make it a guarantee nor can it be expected of them.

someone who 30+% of the people consider the greatest ever at something, did not fail to live up to potential.


thats retarded

[LeCola]

many players have "potential" to become something.

that doesnt make it a guarantee nor can it be expected of them.

someone who 30+% of the people consider the greatest ever at something, did not fail to live up to potential.


thats retarded

30+%

30+%

30+%

30+%

30+%

30+%

30+%

30+%

:lol

:oldlol:

:roll:

Maybe, 30+% could be in you school. People who didnt even watched Young Lebron. :oldlol:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5usx4mQg6x8/hqdefault.jpg

[PeroAntic]

I hate ballhogs who are also poor defenders, so its Tatum between the two.

[steezy]

Tatum has achieved more at the moment, but Luka is the better player.

[plowking]

Luka, not particularly close.

Luka is the BITW.

He just plays the game at a different pace.


Tatum still looked a little rushed and not sure what he was doing a couple times this series.

Luka is always in control. Always dominating.

Luka ain't better than Giannis or Jokic.

[Phoenix]

Tatum has achieved more at the moment, but Luka is the better player.

Luka was rookie of the year and two-time all-NBA first team. They're both 3 time all-stars. The Celtics have done more than the Mavericks the past 4 seasons, but those are team achievements if that's your basis for saying Tatum has done more.

[1987_Lakers]

For once I agree with you, although I woudn't say "far better on offense". But to me Luka has a clear edge there, he has shown he can run an offense by himself with great results, that to me is more valuable than what Tatum brings to the table.

I think the Bucks/Celtics & Suns/Mavs series are good examples to what I was saying here. Luka averaged something like 33/10/7 on 47 fg% with inconsistent help all series vs a team with more talent and won.

Tatum averaged 27/6/5 with Jaylen Brown also putting up 22 ppg and overall a clear edge in talent vs the Bucks and that series still went 7.

Luka to me is more impressive.

[NBASTATMAN]

Luka, not particularly close.

Luka is the BITW.

He just plays the game at a different pace.


Tatum still looked a little rushed and not sure what he was doing a couple times this series.

Luka is always in control. Always dominating.

THIS RIGHT HERE.. We are talking levels.. A player that can control tempo and score will always be better than a scorer like Ingram.. I will say that Ingram is a far better defender so that makes it close.. BUt offensively give me LUKA every day of the week

[1987_Lakers]

THIS RIGHT HERE.. We are talking levels.. A player that can control tempo and score will always be better than a scorer like Ingram.. I will say that Ingram is a far better defender so that makes it close.. BUt offensively give me LUKA every day of the week

:biggums:

[Cold soul]

Luka is the better player all around and I say this as a huge Tatum fan one of my favorite players in the league.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Tatum is a better off ball player, better shooter, massively better defender.

I'm taking the guy who justeliminated and outplayed durant/Giannis

Luka only beat choke paul and Gobert

Not really close in terms of matchups

[ImKobe]

Tatum is a better off ball player, better shooter, massively better defender.

I'm taking the guy who justeliminated and outplayed durant/Giannis

Luka only beat choke paul and Gobert

Not really close in terms of matchups

Tatum's not a better scorer off the dribble and he's limited offensively compared to Luka. Doncic is averaging 32/10/7/2 on ~59%TS in just 36.1 mpg vs Tatum's 28/6/6 58%TS in 41.2 mpg and beats him in all the advanced metrics by a wide margin. Luka has a +18.2 Net Rating in these PO's compared to Tatum's +7.4 as well.

Luka beat the title favorites (almost everyone picked the Suns to be in the Finals and gave the Mavs 0 chance) with a Game 7 win on the road while Tatum beat an undermanned Bucks' team with HCA.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Tatum's not a better scorer off the dribble and he's limited offensively compared to Luka. Doncic is averaging 32/10/7/2 on ~59%TS in just 36.1 mpg vs Tatum's 28/6/6 58%TS in 41.2 mpg and beats him in all the advanced metrics by a wide margin. Luka has a +18.2 Net Rating in these PO's compared to Tatum's +7.4 as well.

Luka beat the title favorites (almost everyone picked the Suns to be in the Finals and gave the Mavs 0 chance) with a Game 7 win on the road while Tatum beat an undermanned Bucks' team with HCA.

Giannis/Jrue > Paul/Booker

Durant/Irving > Mitchell/gobert (by far)

I still don't see how luka run is more impressive. It's choke Paul vs Giannis

Tatum is kind of like their point guard now, he was running point guard in game 7.

Smart is the point guard as well and he's pretty good at it

Non stop ball movement

Take away horrid defense and ball stopping. Most importantly taking the ball out of Tatum's hands is what kemba did. This is a much new and improved and prime form celtics

Tatum is averaging 28 points 58% TS, 6 REBS, 6 ASSISTS, 1 BLOCK

39% from 3 shooting 9 a game

6"11 wingspan can pull up over majority players

He's the perfect wing player. Almost as perfect as kawhi.

Can you name a player who averaged 28/6/6/1 and eliminated players the caliber of Durant/Irving and Giannis/jrue? Tatum is coming off the greatest first two rounds in playoff history that I can think of.

[ImKobe]

Giannis/Jrue > Paul/Booker

Durant/Irving > Mitchell/gobert (by far)

I still don't see how luka run is more impressive. It's choke Paul vs Giannis

Tatum is kind of like their point guard now, he was running point guard in game 7.

Smart is the point guard as well and he's pretty good at it

Non stop ball movement

Take away horrid defense and ball stopping. Most importantly taking the ball out of Tatum's hands is what kemba did. This is a much new and improved and prime form celtics

Tatum is averaging 28 points 58% TS, 6 REBS, 6 ASSISTS, 1 BLOCK

39% from 3 shooting 9 a game

6"11 wingspan can pull up over majority players

He's the perfect wing player. Almost as perfect as kawhi.

Can you name a player who averaged 28/6/6/1 and eliminated players the caliber of Durant/Irving and Giannis/jrue? Tatum is coming off the greatest first two rounds in playoff history that I can think of.

Nets' defense was just as bad as the Jazz. Chris Paul and Booker were both considered to be MVP candidates/top 10 in the league and they had the best team by a wide margin. Mikal Bridges was a DPOY candidate too and Ayton was supposed to be a huge advantage for Phoenix. The Suns easily had more depth & scoring than the Bucks and also had HCA.

Smart is not a real point guard.

Mavs move the ball a lot, they play at a slower pace so the averages don't look as great for the team overall but they can hurt teams in a lot of ways with 3 ballhandlers in Doncic, Brunson & Dinwiddie.

Tatum is playing 6 more minutes a game and at a higher pace and his numbers aren't even close, his PER & WS numbers are barely All-Star level, his stats are very similar to Booker's through the first 2 rounds of last year's POs, who averaged 28/7/5 in ~40 mpg vs. Lakers & Nuggets.

Booker eliminated Bran and Jokic. Both Lakers & Nuggets had injuries to their top players, just like the Nets & Bucks.

He's nowhere near as good as Kawhi, who's an ATG mid-range shooter and who's also a superior athlete and who's still superior to him defensively.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Nets' defense was just as bad as the Jazz. Chris Paul and Booker were both considered to be MVP candidates/top 10 in the league and they had the best team by a wide margin. Mikal Bridges was a DPOY candidate too and Ayton was supposed to be a huge advantage for Phoenix. The Suns easily had more depth & scoring than the Bucks and also had HCA.

Smart is not a real point guard.

Mavs move the ball a lot, they play at a slower pace so the averages don't look as great for the team overall but they can hurt teams in a lot of ways with 3 ballhandlers in Doncic, Brunson & Dinwiddie.

Tatum is playing 6 more minutes a game and at a higher pace and his numbers aren't even close, his PER & WS numbers are barely All-Star level, his stats are very similar to Booker's through the first 2 rounds of last year's POs, who averaged 28/7/5 in ~40 mpg vs. Lakers & Nuggets.

Booker eliminated Bran and Jokic. Both Lakers & Nuggets had injuries to their top players, just like the Nets & Bucks.

He's nowhere near as good as Kawhi, who's an ATG mid-range shooter and who's also a superior athlete and who's still superior to him defensively.

It's still a chris paul team at the end of the day. Biggest choker ever and can't give you credit over beating Giannis and the defending champs.

Tatum has similar win share as Hakeem did in 1995 playoffs. That stat isn't always high for every all time great. They get it right majority of time but not every time.

Luka is going to have better stats because his usage is so much higher and ball domination. But overall impact is Tatum due to the defense gap.

[bizil]

Magic,Luka, Bron,and Bird are basically in a class by themselves. BECAUSE when it comes to guys 6'7 and up, they are the top 4 EVER when it comes to combining scoring, passing, rebounding, and true SAVANT level floor generalship-IQ. They all did it their own way. BUT at the same time, they are four of a kind for the criteria I mentioned. Plus Luka can play 3-4 different positions legit as well like those guys.

So I would take Luka over Tatum. EVEN THOUGH Tatum is gonna be regarded as the best SF in the world at some point. The MORE his passing ability improves, the MORE he can close the gap on Luka. And while he's an elite defender, he's not a Kawhi level two way guy. IF he gets to that level, then who knows. So it's either get to Kawhi level two way as much as possible. OR become a great passer for a SG. If he doesn't do ANY of those things, Luka's always gonna have the edge.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

Magic,Luka, Bron,and Bird are basically in a class by themselves. BECAUSE when it comes to guys 6'7 and up, they are the top 4 EVER when it comes to combining scoring, passing, rebounding, and true SAVANT level floor generalship-IQ. They all did it their own way. BUT at the same time, they are four of a kind for the criteria I mentioned. Plus Luka can play 3-4 different positions legit as well like those guys.

So I would take Luka over Tatum. EVEN THOUGH Tatum is gonna be regarded as the best SF in the world at some point. The MORE his passing ability improves, the MORE he can close the gap on Luka. And while he's an elite defender, he's not a Kawhi level two way guy. IF he gets to that level, then who knows. So it's either get to Kawhi level two way as much as possible. OR become a great passer for a SG. If he doesn't do ANY of those things, Luka's always gonna have the edge.

I would say Tatum is on that level of kawhi on defense. This is the 3rd conference finals team that Tatum anchored. 2020 ECF he faced dragic, bam, butler, herro a stacked team offensively as dragic and bam both got hurt in the finals. Then he's facing harden-Irving-Durant without JB last year. So he has had some bad luck but 3 conference finals coming into your age 23 season is excellent. 2018,2020, 2022 all three teams show that Tatum was their defensive anchor by on/off metrics as well. His man to man is scary on the eye test.

It's actually kawhi's offense that I'm not sure Tatum will ever reach. Kawhi is just insanely hyper efficient a goat level mid range guy and capable of carry jobs like his raptors run. Time will tell as Tatum is still like 2016 kawhi age

[bizil]

When you elevate a team the way Luka has with the Mavs, it REALLY stands out! He's not part of a dynamic duo. Or a Big 3! They traded Porzingis and are ALREADY reaping the benefits of that. The thing with Luka and Bron is the FACT they can cover so many gaps. You just don't find guys who score as well as Luka does that ALSO has sick triple double ability AND savant level floor generalship to go with it. You have guys who get great assist numbers. BUT they don't have Luka's level of floor generalship.

If Luka was on Boston in place of Tatum, they would be just as good or better. If you put Tatum on the Mavs in place of Luka, they wouldn't be as good.

[bizil]

I would say Tatum is on that level of kawhi on defense. This is the 3rd conference finals team that Tatum anchored. 2020 ECF he faced dragic, bam, butler, herro a stacked team offensively as dragic and bam both got hurt in the finals. Then he's facing harden-Irving-Durant without JB last year. So he has had some bad luck but 3 conference finals coming into your age 23 season is excellent. 2018,2020, 2022 all three teams show that Tatum was their defensive anchor by on/off metrics as well. His man to man is scary on the eye test.

It's actually kawhi's offense that I'm not sure Tatum will ever reach. Kawhi is just insanely hyper efficient a goat level mid range guy and capable of carry jobs like his raptors run. Time will tell as Tatum is still like 2016 kawhi age

You sure about that??? Kawhi is THE BEST two way SF of all time!!! Who has DPOYs and All D's teams out the ass! Can't put JT on that level of defense yet.

[Round Mound]

Luka is better. But...i think the Celtics will win the chip.

[RicardoTubbs]

If the Mavs lose. It won't be because of Luka's play

If the Celtics lose it will be because of Tatum's play

[BarberSchool]

If the Mavs lose. It won't be because of Luka's play

If the Celtics lose it will be because of Tatum's play
That seems to be the case, because of Luka’s offensive creative versatility in the same evolving play, and when the evolving play dictates that Luka score instead of playmake, Luka has endless counters utilizing pivots and fakes with great stability thru traffic and heavy body blows.

Tatum is in literally perfect condition, has a perfect basketball body, and a very diverse array of ways he can score. But he doesn’t react well yet to heavy traffic or body contact, and doesn’t kill opponents early or often, with his passing, when he’s doubled. In time, he can get there, but it’ll take a few years of him getting consistently doubled, while handling the ball like a PG in the PNR.

[ShawkFactory]

Luka is clearly better.

Tatum is a good defender and a great finisher on all levels but this series is showing that his handle needs a little work. It’s a fixable issue I think but it needs to happen.

[Full Court]

yes he did

No, he didn't.

[1987_Lakers]

Tatum and it isn’t close. The impact isn’t close


Tatum.

:biggums:

[FultzNationRISE]

Theyre pretty similar in style and close in value. Tatum feels more consistent, Luka has the higher ceiling and the lower floor. But Luka tends to play toward his ceiling in the playoffs so I would favor him individually in a finals.

Dallas-Boston in general would be a great series. I think the C’s have the slightly better team overall. I assume they would also have home court in that match? Not positive tho. So I would pick the C’s but it could clearly go either way.

:biggums:

[ImKobe]

:biggums:

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o84sv2u7KSHKbwPza/giphy.gif

[theman93]

:biggums:

Did I stutter?

[1987_Lakers]

Did I stutter?

Retard confirmed

[kentatm]

All I know is that Tatum was a turd in this series and Luka played far better against Golden State w/much less help.

[Phoenix]

https://c.tenor.com/fl1ex5toUtIAAAAC/han-solo-shrug.gif

[Nike D'Antoni]

Tatum now leading the MVP race over Luka.

[Nike D'Antoni]

1. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics
Season stats: 31.6 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.5 apg

Tatum showed he was king of the court as the Prince and Princess of Wales sat courtside Wednesday to watch him drill eight 3-pointers as part of a season-high 49 points in a win against the Miami Heat. The performance marked Tatum’s third 40-point game of the season as Boston’s top-rated offense powered the team’s fifth straight win. Tatum is the sixth player in NBA history to have multiple games with 45 points or more with 10 or more rebounds while only committing one turnover or fewer, joining the company of Anthony Davis (six such games), Michael Jordan (three), Antetokounmpo (three), Kobe Bryant (two) and Carmelo Anthony (two).


2. Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks

Season stats: 33.6 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 8.7 apg

The NBA’s leading scorer, Doncic continues to dominate at a clip that leaves pundits wondering whether all the production is sustainable. The 23-year-old churned out the 51st triple-double of his career in Tuesday’s win over Golden State, with Mavericks coach Jason Kidd joking Doncic’s latest feat was “boring.” Given Dallas’ struggles this season to find consistent secondary ballhandlers, the club added a proven point guard Tuesday in Kemba Walker, which should help. Despite Doncic’s heroics, the Mavericks lost four in a row before Tuesday’s victory, and the club is currently a conference-worst 1-8 on the road after Wednesday’s overtime loss at Detroit.


https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-2-2022-edition

[Nike D'Antoni]

Tatum stays first, and Doncic drops to third in Race to the MVP

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-9-2022-edition

1. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics

Last week’s ranking: No. 1

Season stats: 30.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 4.1 apg

Expect the rematch of the 2022 NBA Finals on Saturday at Golden State (8:30 ET, ABC) to look different than what we saw back in May because the Tatum we’re seeing now isn’t the same guy that ran out of gas down the stretch last season. He’s on a mission and provided more evidence of that Wednesday in leading Boston to its second largest margin of victory (27 points) of the season in a 125-98 trouncing of the Suns and fellow MVP candidate Devin Booker. The Celtics are now 14-4 this season when Tatum and Jaylen Brown each score 20 points or more. Boston is also 10-2 this season against teams that are .500 or better.

3. Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks

Last week’s ranking: Tied at No. 2

Season stats: 32.9 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 8.7 apg

Doncic owns the Mavs’ franchise-record for triple-doubles (52), but what’s wild is the 23-year-old missed out on potential triple-doubles by either one rebound or one assist on 19 occasions throughout his short career. We’re just a quarter of the way into the season, but there’s no shortage of highlights featuring Doncic, who is continuing to improve as a facilitator. The point guard showcased as much in reading the defense and finding Dorian Finney-Smith for the game-winning bucket Tuesday against the Nuggets. By the way, Doncic needs only one more 35-point game to tie Oscar Robertson (55) for the fifth-most 35-point games by a player 23 or younger in NBA history.

[AirBonner]

I’ll take the guy that can hit free throws

[Nike D'Antoni]

Luka Doncic has a record of 5-2 versus Jayson Tatum in his career.

[Manny98]

Luka easily

[Street Hunger]

Luka Doncic basically carries the Mavericks I think.

Celtics feel like a more complete team.

But I wonder if we're underrating the Mavs players? Maybe a bunch of these guys are better defenders and role players than we thought

[Yeezy]

right now it's debatable. it's basically 2001 kobe vs 1986 bird. they're also pretty close all time in terms of value even while being different players

now it's 2003 kobe vs 1986 bird

I might have to side with tatum at this point. Lukas great inside and at playmaking but his defense and shooting is horrible. tatum is more complete. it saddens me cause I'm still more of a luka fan


luka can take over a game better but he's inconsistent. he's such an enormous choker at the line like his idol that it totally takes away from all the positives

[Airupthere]

Luka still

[Yeezy]

Luka still

at Lukas best he's better. but he's too inconsistent. tatum had an all time choke job in the finals last year but if he can overcome that and win league mvp and finals mvp then he has to be considered better than luka wouldn't he?


luka is having a tough time co existing with others. tatum can quite easily


it's really their styles. one is a do it all guy and the other guy can fit in a system. the mavs need shooters and defenders everywhere fir him to succeed. it's like a lebron scenario. it's sad that he can't play off the ball. I wish he had kobe to teach him still. only downfall of his premature death