lebron's bad GM'ing is used as scapegoat when skill deficit caused bad fit w/ Westbro

[3ba11]

Why does Lebron's GM'ing get blamed instead of skill deficit that caused the bad fit?..

Lebron can't produce off-screens or off-ball, which is a massive skill deficit that caused the bad fit.. But media ignores the skill deficit and weak brand of ball by focusing on the GM aspect.

The best player-type is a combo player that can produce at elite levels on-ball and off-ball, thereby fitting with any teammate or system to yield the highest team ceilings (Finals records)..

Indeed, the combo guys have much better Finals records than the straight ball-dominators, who need a lot more help due to weaker teammate fits and brand of ball.

[FultzNationRISE]

OP had peyote for breakfast again.

[RRR3]

This bitch never stops whining. Whiniest poster ever.

[3ba11]

This bitch never stops whining. Whiniest poster ever.


Who's #1 all-time in turnovers?

It's Lebron.... Not Westbrook

Yet the media says Westbrook is the turnover machine.. it's all lies..

now that Lebron's collusions are gone, we're seeing the exciting parity and superior brand-based basketball that was the STANDARD in prior eras

You're enjoying the exciting playoffs right? That's because LeCollude is gone so we have real competition again

[ShawkFactory]

Who's #1 all-time in turnovers?

It's Lebron.... Not Westbrook

Yet the media says Westbrook is the turnover machine.. it's all lies..

now that Lebron's collusions are gone, we're seeing the exciting parity and superior brand-based basketball that was the STANDARD in prior eras

You're enjoying the exciting playoffs right? That's because LeCollude is gone so we have real competition again

He's averaged 5 TOs a game over the last 6 years.

No one has ever turned the ball over at the rate he has since KD left OKC.

[Nb1]

He was number 1 again this season and would have won most TO if he played till the end lol

I mean, look at this, this isn't even up for debate unless someone is totally retarded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0r8eAhhf3k

[NBAGOAT]

Construct a fantasy roster with a realistic set of salaries that wins a title with westbrook as lead hall handler and a top 2 scoring option. Lebron doesn’t fit well but westbrook also just isn’t that good now. Bradley Beal fit well with westbrook and they made the playin.

[RRR3]

Construct a fantasy roster with a realistic set of salaries that wins a title with westbrook as lead hall handler and a top 2 scoring option. Lebron doesn’t fit well but westbrook also just isn’t that good now. Bradley Beal fit well with westbrook and they made the playin.
You couldn’t construct a title team with Westbrook playing in the rotation at all. This isn’t 2015 despite what OP thinks.

[3ba11]

He's averaged 5 TOs a game over the last 6 years.

No one has ever turned the ball over at the rate he has since KD left OKC.


frontcourt positions are LOW turnover positions.

so Lebron's point guard turnover rate is insanely high for a forward and therefore increases his team's turnovers compared to teams that have normal forwards.

Essentially, only Lebron's turnovers are abnormally-high, while Westbrook's are in line with his position

Let that sink in... Again, the bad fit is Lebron's fault because only his turnovers and ball-dominance is abnormally-high for his position

[RRR3]

frontcourt positions are LOW turnover positions.

so Lebron's point guard turnover rate is insanely high for a forward and therefore increases his team's turnovers compared to teams that have normal forwards.

Essentially, only Lebron's turnovers are abnormally-high, while Westbrook's are in line with his position

Let that sink in... Again, the bad fit is Lebron's fault because only his turnovers and ball-dominance is abnormally-high for his position
Not if they’re high usage players who create offense you ****ing idiot.

[3ba11]

Not if they’re high usage players who create offense you ****ing idiot.


That's the point - Lebron lacks a typical frontcourt skillset that would fit with Westbrook, such as low-turnovers, off-ball, elite jumpshooting or post dominance

Otoh, combo players can produce elite levels on-ball or off, so they fit with any player or system, thereby yielding the highest team ceilings (Finals records)

[SouBeachTalents]

Construct a fantasy roster with a realistic set of salaries that wins a title with westbrook as lead hall handler and a top 2 scoring option. Lebron doesn’t fit well but westbrook also just isn’t that good now. Bradley Beal fit well with westbrook and they made the playin.
Swap Pippen & Westbrook and the Bulls win 6-7 rings.

[3ba11]

Swap Pippen & Westbrook and the Bulls win 6-7 rings.


Prime Westbrook and MJ in the backcourt would demolish the 12' Spurs more than Westbrook/KD did... Only Lebron's collusion stole Westbrook's organic chip in 2012.

Those Spurs were hot like fire, but Westbrook/KD overwhelmed them and cooled them off... one must assume that Westbrook/MJ would blow the doors off even more because we know MJ > KD (MJ never had this kind of debacle like 22' KD or other yrs)

[RRR3]

MJ is nowhere near a good a fit with Westbrook as Durant was. Durant is the ideal costar for WB tbh.

[3ba11]

MJ is nowhere near a good a fit with Westbrook as Durant was. Durant is the ideal costar for WB tbh.


The term "goat scorer" isn't some fancy term that means nothing - Jordan was the goat scorer for a REASON

It's because he was the goat producer off-screens and jumpshooting, as shown by his 69 point game, or many other 40-60 point games in the regular season, playoffs and Finals that Durant is nowhere near matching..

Has Durant even scored 50 in the playoffs?.. lol. smh

Jordan has the power, strength and explosiveness that KD lacks, while producing more off-screens and via jumpshot - KD has many failures alongside Westbrook because he simply wasn't dominant enough.. He has no post moves, lacks strength and doesn't require a "wall" or Jordan Rules to stop rim attack ... He can be shut down for important stretches

[Bronbron23]

Why does Lebron's GM'ing get blamed instead of skill deficit that caused the bad fit?..

Lebron can't produce off-screens or off-ball, which is a massive skill deficit that caused the bad fit.. But media ignores the skill deficit and weak brand of ball by focusing on the GM aspect.

The best player-type is a combo player that can produce at elite levels on-ball and off-ball, thereby fitting with any teammate or system to yield the highest team ceilings (Finals records)..

Indeed, the combo guys have much better Finals records than the straight ball-dominators, who need a lot more help due to weaker teammate fits and brand of ball.

Brons play gets criticism all the time dude

[3ba11]

Brons play gets criticism all the time dude


He never gets blamed for his goat turnover rate or ball-dominance for a frontcourt player (frontcourt ball-dominance = low team assists)

He literally has the worst teammate fits, chemistry and brand of ball ever, which is why he's a talent-based winner (team-hopper.. all-star team strategy)

His woat brand is why he needs more help regardless of cast and struggles on the championship level (4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts)

[ShawkFactory]

frontcourt positions are LOW turnover positions.

so Lebron's point guard turnover rate is insanely high for a forward and therefore increases his team's turnovers compared to teams that have normal forwards.

Essentially, only Lebron's turnovers are abnormally-high, while Westbrook's are in line with his position

Let that sink in... Again, the bad fit is Lebron's fault because only his turnovers and ball-dominance is abnormally-high for his position

Positions aren't the same as they were in 1992.

The same is true for most sports. Or most things in general. They evolve.

[3ba11]

Positions aren't the same as they were in 1992.

The same is true for most sports. Or most things in general. They evolve.


Lebron is the only frontcourt player in the league that has a point guard turnover rate and ball-dominance, so he doesn't fit with Westbrook.

Any other forward (off-ball player) could fit with Westbrook, or anyone with elite jumpshooting skill and off-screen production. Lebron lacks these standard forward skills and therefore should get knocked for skill deficit - he's just a simpleton ball-dominator like Westbrook, even though it's the #2 all-time player's job and a forward's job to have these skills

If he was a combo forward that could get elite production on-ball AND off-ball, then he would fit with Westbrook.. Like say, Kawhi or Bird or Kobe...And obviously, we saw Durant win organically with Westbrook in 2012, if not for Lebron's collusion.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron is the only frontcourt player that has a point guard turnover rate and ball-dominance, so he doesn't fit with Westbrook.

Any other forward (off-ball player) could fit with Westbrook, or anyone with elite jumpshooting skill and off-screen production. Lebron lacks these standard forward skills and therefore should get knocked for skill deficit - he's just a simpleton ball-dominator like Westbrook, even though it's the #2 all-time player's job and a forward's job to have these skills

If he was a combo forward that could get elite production on-ball AND off-ball, then he would fit with Westbrook

He's the only frontcourt player with a point guard skillset. You're right. Two guys with point guard skillsets on the same team aren't going to maximize each other. Particularly when one of them (Russ) literally can't do anything else at an even passable level, aside from rebound.

It's bad GMing because the Lakers could have kept KCP, Kuzma, and Caruso (3 shooters/play finishers; and defenders for that matter) instead of bringing on Westbrook. Bringing someone on who doesn't fit well with your best player while giving up 3 that do = bad GMing. Like..the textbook definition of that.

[1987_Lakers]

Lebron is the only frontcourt player in the league that has a point guard turnover rate and ball-dominance, so he doesn't fit with Westbrook.

Any other forward (off-ball player) could fit with Westbrook, or anyone with elite jumpshooting skill and off-screen production. Lebron lacks these standard forward skills and therefore should get knocked for skill deficit - he's just a simpleton ball-dominator like Westbrook, even though it's the #2 all-time player's job and a forward's job to have these skills

If he was a combo forward that could get elite production on-ball AND off-ball, then he would fit with Westbrook.. Like say, Kawhi or Bird or Kobe...And obviously, we saw Durant win organically with Westbrook in 2012, if not for Lebron's collusion.

I saw what you posted the other night. A vid of you getting harassed by a woman then you quickly deleted it. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron is the only frontcourt player in the league that has a point guard turnover rate and ball-dominance, so he doesn't fit with Westbrook.

Any other forward (off-ball player) could fit with Westbrook, or anyone with elite jumpshooting skill and off-screen production. Lebron lacks these standard forward skills and therefore should get knocked for skill deficit - he's just a simpleton ball-dominator like Westbrook, even though it's the #2 all-time player's job and a forward's job to have these skills

If he was a combo forward that could get elite production on-ball AND off-ball, then he would fit with Westbrook.. Like say, Kawhi or Bird or Kobe...And obviously, we saw Durant win organically with Westbrook in 2012, if not for Lebron's collusion.
Kobe & Westbrook would be a hilariously bad fit. I don’t even think they’d survive their first season together before Kobe would either request a trade or demand Westbrook be traded.

[3ba11]

I saw what you posted the other night. A vid of you getting harassed by a woman then you quickly deleted it. :lol


That was my girl snapping on someone at Walmart in a video that got over 2 million views

That was 1/9th of the original video

[3ba11]

Kobe & Westbrook would be a hilariously bad fit. I don’t even think they’d survive their first season together before Kobe would either request a trade or demand Westbrook be traded.


You guys are forgetting that Durant and Westbrook played mostly your-turn-my-turn

They didn't really fit optimally the way Westbrook and Jordan would because Jordan had elite production off-screens.. He actually came off screens throughout the game while Durant actually rarely operates off-screens alongside Westbrook or Kyrie... Curry made him do it and he hated it

So Kobe's ability in the triangle and off-screens would be a superior fit with Westbrook too, just like Jordan

[SouBeachTalents]

You guys are forgetting that Durant and Westbrook played mostly your-turn-my-turn

They didn't really fit optimally the way Westbrook and Jordan would because Jordan had elite production off-screens.. He actually came off screens throughout the game while Durant actually rarely operates off-screens alongside Westbrook or Kyrie... Curry made him do it and he hated it

So Kobe's ability in the triangle and off-screens would be a superior fit with Westbrook too, just like Jordan
Nah, unlike Durant Kobe wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate such a low IQ, inefficient player dominanting the ball to the extent that Westbrook does. Then when you include his crunch time antics of chucking mindless 3 pointers and keeping the ball out of Kobe’s hands, he would never tolerate that shit :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Nah, unlike Durant Kobe wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate such a low IQ, inefficient player dominanting the ball to the extent that Westbrook does. Then when you include his crunch time antics of chucking mindless 3 pointers and keeping the ball out of Kobe’s hands, he would never tolerate that shit :lol

Was literally thinking the same thing. KD was too nice back then. There were so many "holy shit" moments with Westbrook taking a terrible/wild shot when KD was open or had a great matchup.

Jordan or Kobe would have yelled his ass off the floor. He wouldn't be the same player if he played with them.

[3ba11]

Nah, unlike Durant Kobe wouldn’t have the patience to tolerate such a low IQ, inefficient player dominanting the ball to the extent that Westbrook does. Then when you include his crunch time antics of chucking mindless 3 pointers and keeping the ball out of Kobe’s hands, he would never tolerate that shit :lol


I forgot to mention that the ego clash might doom the 2 but I think they would be happy to dominate together for a while

Great players don't look at each other like "you're great - I will clash with you" - it's the opposite at least initially and for a while.. They would last several years

[3ba11]

Was literally thinking the same thing. KD was too nice back then. There were so many "holy shit" moments with Westbrook taking a terrible/wild shot when KD was open or had a great matchup.

Jordan or Kobe would have yelled his ass off the floor. He wouldn't be the same player if he played with them.


Durant's your-turn-my-turn wasn't the perfect fit for Westbrook but elite production off-screens would be:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-27-2022/NXu-D7.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-22-2015/LaRhrm.gif


Westbrook would NEVER miss out on 10 apg alongside that caliber assist target (the goat one)

[Hey Yo]

Wrong thread

[ShawkFactory]

Durant's your-turn-my-turn wasn't the perfect fit for Westbrook but elite production off-screens would be:



https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-27-2022/NXu-D7.gif


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-22-2015/LaRhrm.gif


Westbrook would NEVER miss out on 10 apg alongside that caliber assist target (the goat one)

Given the context of the argument I think that this is probably one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever seen.

[1987_Lakers]

That was my girl snapping on someone at Walmart in a video that got over 2 million views

That was 1/9th of the original video

She didn't look European like you said though.

[999Guy]

She didn't look European like you said though.

Can you link that?

[Hey Yo]

That was my girl snapping on someone at Walmart in a video that got over 2 million views

That was 1/9th of the original video

LOL @ going through the self checkout and getting busted for not scanning 500 dollars worth of stuff.

No wonder your sister was pissed.

[Shooter]

https://i.postimg.cc/WzqNqNKR/LBJ_Top_Producer.png

[Shooter]

She didn't look European like you said though.

lol link?

[RRR3]

How are you guys letting him get away with saying LeBron is the only frontcourt player to have a point guard level number of turnovers? Look at the TO numbers for Barkley, Ewing, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone and Moses Malone. And those guys didn’t get nearly the number of assists LeBron got so they’re actually turning it over more for how often they create. Those are literally just a few frontcourt players from the era he jacks off too, there are obviously way more but the point has been made.

[3ba11]

Given the context of the argument I think that this is probably one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever seen.


You said that Kobe/MJ wouldn't fit with Westbrook like Durant did and I pointed out that Durant/Westbrook played the talent-based, your-turn-my-turn strategy - they didn't actually fit optimally or as well as guys that could produce without ball-dominance or a weak your-turn-my-turn style.- MJ/Kobe could produce without ball-dominance or your-turn-my-turn brand, so they would fit better with Westbrook and win more with him .. They had dynasties with a lot less talent than the 12 Thunder

[SATAN]

https://i.postimg.cc/WzqNqNKR/LBJ_Top_Producer.png

Amazing! :applause:

[3ba11]

Amazing! :applause:


It's also false because Jordan led the Bulls on n assists and steals for most of the title runs, while also averaging 10-30 more points in every series - everyone in history needed juggernaut scoring help except the GOAT.. only Jordan had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

[ShawkFactory]

You said that Kobe/MJ wouldn't fit with Westbrook like Durant did and I pointed out that Durant/Westbrook played the talent-based, your-turn-my-turn strategy - they didn't actually fit optimally or as well as guys that could produce without ball-dominance or a weak your-turn-my-turn style.- MJ/Kobe could produce without ball-dominance or your-turn-my-turn brand, so they would fit better with Westbrook and win more with him .. They had dynasties with a lot less talent than the 12 Thunder

No...I didn't. I said The Kobe/MJ would never put up with Westbrook's bullshit. Which is a fact and you know it's true. It's wild to me that you could argue that the issue with the Thunder was "brand of ball" and not Westbrook's idiocy, bordering on lunacy, at the end of games. When you have an assist target like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28BFJCrKEoo

...you don't go tunnel-vision and jack up terrible shots at the end of games.


MJ/Kobe could produce without ball-dominance or your-turn-my-turn brand, so they would fit better with Westbrook and win more with him .. They had dynasties with a lot less talent than the 12 Thunder
Aren't you literally always talking about how Lebron stole a ring from Durant in 12? But now it's about brand of ball?

I'll revert back to my previous comment about how your post was one of the dumbest I've ever seen. You are legit talking foolishness right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Positions aren't the same as they were in 1992.

The same is true for most sports. Or most things in general. They evolve.

Even in 92 turnovers were pretty universal. Shaq led the league in 93. The two people Lebron passed for the all time lead were Moses and Karl Malone. And until Harden and Westbrook the single season leaders were all forwards and centers. That’s back when those players had the ball. Generally….whoever has the ball turns it over most. Centers did it a lot more when they got the ball. Shocking I know.

[ShawkFactory]

Even in 92 turnovers were pretty universal. Shaq led the league in 93. The two people Lebron passed for the all time lead were Moses and Karl Malone. And until Harden and Westbrook the single season leaders were all forwards and centers. That’s back when those players had the ball. Generally….whoever has the ball turns it over most. Centers did it a lot more when they got the ball. Shocking I know.

Very true.

As an aside that kind of makes Chris Paul look bananas.

[3ba11]

No...I didn't. I said The Kobe/MJ would never put up with Westbrook's bullshit. Which is a fact and you know it's true. It's wild to me that you could argue that the issue with the Thunder was "brand of ball" and not Westbrook's idiocy, bordering on lunacy, at the end of games. When you have an assist target like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28BFJCrKEoo

...you don't go tunnel-vision and jack up terrible shots at the end of games.


Aren't you literally always talking about how Lebron stole a ring from Durant in 12? But now it's about brand of ball?

I'll revert back to my previous comment about how your post was one of the dumbest I've ever seen. You are legit talking foolishness right now.


There wouldn't be any "bullshit" to put up just like with Rodman.. Everyone gets in line alongside the GOAT.. there's a reverence (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r_IGlUNKSRo&t=03m23s) there.

Furthermore, Westbrook wouldn't think he was anything compared to Jordan, who was a 6'6" version of Westbrook - they would be going at it in practice all the time and Jordan would establish a pattern of extreme dominance over Westbrook, even more than Pippen, who was taller.. Westbrook would be extremely submissive to Jordan

But your whole premise is wrong because players agree to play together - Kobe wasn't like "I won't step on the floor with him" (talking about Shaq).. The players will get on the floor and play together, at which point their talent alone will win chips like it did in 2012 (if not for lebron's collusion).

[3ba11]

Even in 92 turnovers were pretty universal. Shaq led the league in 93. The two people Lebron passed for the all time lead were Moses and Karl Malone. And until Harden and Westbrook the single season leaders were all forwards and centers. That’s back when those players had the ball. Generally….whoever has the ball turns it over most. Centers did it a lot more when they got the ball. Shocking I know.


Lebron is the only frontcourt player (started in the frontcourt most of his career) in the top 10 all-time for turnovers per game.

But the whole point about turnovers was that it's just another indication of his point guard style of play (high turnovers, low assisted rate, high time of possession) - he's the only guy doing this point guard style while starting in the frontcourt, which creates 2 point guard lineups.

These 2 point guard lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1 point guard lineups, so the TEAM has low assists (weaker brand) that struggles on the championship level (4/10 including 2 teammate bailouts).

Essentially, his abnormal ball-dominance for a forward (including turnovers) makes his TEAM abnormally ball-dominant (poor teammate fits, poor brand), which requires more supporting talent to win.

[ShawkFactory]

There wouldn't be any "bullshit" to put up just like with Rodman.

Doubling down :lol

Rodman's bullshit didn't have anything to do with how he played basketball. The entire narrative with MJ is that he LET Rodman continue his off-the-court bullshit so that he could get his full value on the court. If there was any submission it was on MJ's end.

Westbrook's bullshit is on the court. Totally different. You know that.

[3ba11]

Doubling down :lol

Rodman's bullshit didn't have anything to do with how he played basketball. The entire narrative with MJ is that he LET Rodman continue his off-the-court bullshit so that he could get his full value on the court. If there was any submission it was on MJ's end.

Westbrook's bullshit is on the court. Totally different. You know that.


Westbrook would play with MJ just like he did Durant

except MJ can't be bodied in the clutch like Durant can, while also playing a superior brand than Durant's your-turn-my-turn, so he would have a better fit and win with Westbrook in 2012, 2016, and more - the Thunder were championship-caliber but the brand of ball and clutch ability was lacking

[ShawkFactory]

Westbrook would play with MJ just like he did Durant


Well that's certainly not what you said before.

And it's insane. Durant was too nice.