It needs to be at least discussed, Are the Grizzlies better without Morant?

[1987_Lakers]

:confusedshrug:

[FultzNationRISE]

Up by 32 against Golden State without him right now :roll:


Ja_m8 in tears :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Up by 32 against Golden State without him right now :roll:


Ja_m8 in tears :roll:

It's really mind blowing how good they are without him, you had Barkley a couple of days ago saying them being 20-5 without him in the season doesn't mean anything. That is a huge sample size.

[ImKobe]

Of course not. Grizzlies have a deep team and a great defense, but there's no one who can carry the offense and close games without him on the court. He might not be as valuable as some think, but they have no chance of contending for a title without him.

[RRR3]

Poor Morant m8 :roll: :roll: :roll:

[insight]

The offense and defense looks better without Ja. I think Ja is most valuable in the 4th quarter when they need a closer.

[Shogon]

Honestly it looks like yes.

The exception to this might be when the game is tied / hangs in the balance in the final minute and they need someone to create their own shot and get a bucket. Nobody else on the Grizzlies comes close in that instance. Outside of that niche moment? Looks like yes.

[GimmeThat]

fixed thread title for you

[1987_Lakers]

Of course not. Grizzlies have a deep team and a great defense, but there's no one who can carry the offense and close games without him on the court. He might not be as valuable as some think, but they have no chance of contending for a title without him.

Don't let this Kobe fan trick you guys. He is still upset the Lakers went 33-16 without Kobe in '00-'04 while going 25-31 in games without Shaq in that span, proving who the MVP on those teams were.

[Full Court]

Grizzlies are a deep team, no doubt.

However, if they had Morant last game, they would have closed out the fourth quarter and be about to go up 3-2 for the series. Saying Memphis is better without him is just a dumb take.

[post]

massacre

[SATAN]

Yeah I may have been wrong although I agree with the fourth quarter comments. :confusedshrug:

Up by almost FIFTY without Ja.

[post]

Grizzlies are a deep team, no doubt.

However, if they had Morant last game, they would have closed out the fourth quarter and be about to go up 3-2 for the series. Saying Memphis is better without him is just a dumb take.

they got obliterated in game 3 with morant

[Full Court]

they got obliterated in game 3 with morant

And Morant won game 2 for the Grizzlies....What point are you trying to make?

[FultzNationRISE]

Grizzlies are a deep team, no doubt.

However, if they had Morant last game, they would have closed out the fourth quarter and be about to go up 3-2 for the series. Saying Memphis is better without him is just a dumb take.

Youre missing a crucial point bozo.

It’s much better to just win more games outright and not need a closer as often, than to be a worse team overall but with a “closer” :hammerhead:

[1987_Lakers]

Warriors down by 50? :wtf:

[Full Court]

Youre missing a crucial point bozo.

It’s much better to just win more games outright and not need a closer as often, than to be a worse team overall but with a “closer” :hammerhead:

No kidding. But surely you don't think that if Morant were playing this would be a close game....

Or maybe I'm giving you too much credit.

[kawhileonard2]

Lakers are better without Lebron have 16 titles without him. Bubble doesn't count because of no fans and 4 month break. Missed playoffs twice and lost in round 1 the other years.

[insight]

And Morant won game 2 for the Grizzlies....What point are you trying to make?

The Grizzlies won 1 game in this series with Ja. They are about to win the second game without him with over a 50 point margin.

[post]

And Morant won game 2 for the Grizzlies....What point are you trying to make?

he sucks on d and they play better as a team without him

he is not necessarily all nba and absolutely should not have been considered an mvp candidate

very good offensive player though

[ImKobe]

Don't let this Kobe fan trick you guys. He is still upset the Lakers went 33-16 without Kobe in '00-'04 while going 25-31 in games without Shaq in that span, proving who the MVP on those teams were.

Shaq's career proves that you need a closer. How much success did he have without Kobe?

[Full Court]

If the only argument you guys can make are simplistic correlations, then you're missing a lot of context.

But hey, if you want to think that Morant is a net negative, then go for it.

[1987_Lakers]

Shaq's career proves that you need a closer. How much success did he have without Kobe?

He won a championship with Kobe averaging 16 ppg on 37 fg%

[Shooter]

20-5 is hard to argue against. Plus they looked solid during their last two games.

Morant's ability to score is hard to match but is he giving up too much on the defensive end? Is he not the leader this team needs.

[NBAGOAT]

no they're a pretty streaky team outside ja. Jackson could dominate or play 20min, bane is very streaky etc. They're the beat team in the league if each team lost their top star however(so no booker, curry, giannis, embiid, butler etc).

[insight]

If the only argument you guys can make are simplistic correlations, then you're missing a lot of context.

But hey, if you want to think that Morant is a net negative, then go for it.

Morant missed a lot of regular season games and Memphis played really well without him. Do I believe Memphis is BETTER without Ja, NO! but they do seem to play collectively better when he is out due to injury.
What is missing is the excitement he brings to the game. Memphis is not very exciting to watch without Ja.

[Full Court]

no they're a pretty streaky team outside ja. Jackson could dominate or play 20min, bane is very streaky etc. They're the beat team in the league if each team lost their top star however(so no booker, curry, giannis, embiid, butler etc).

I agree with all this.

[insight]

no they're a pretty streaky team outside ja. Jackson could dominate or play 20min, bane is very streaky etc. They're the beat team in the league if each team lost their top star however(so no booker, curry, giannis, embiid, butler etc).

Ja is VERY STREAKY, I watched the majority of the Grizzly games and Ja had plenty of stinkers and horrible games. No other team is going 24-5 without their star player.

[ImKobe]

He won a championship with Kobe averaging 16 ppg on 37 fg%

Nice. How many championships did he win with Penny, Nash and Lebron?

[1987_Lakers]

One thing is certain, Mike Brown is going to be a disastrous hire for Sacramento.

[Shooter]

Nice. How many championships did he win with Penny, Nash and Lebron?

In 2006 Shaq had two Finals games where he scored nine and five, yes, FIVE points.

By 2010 he was beyond washed. Try again, tardo.

[Axe]

I heard casuals telling us before that he's worthy of winning the league mvp award. Looks it didn't age well at all ala drinking milk after a day.

[ImKobe]

Ja is VERY STREAKY, I watched the majority of the Grizzly games and Ja had plenty of stinkers and horrible games. No other team is going 24-5 without their star player.

Yes, but they clearly played a lot better in this series with him on the court.

-1 in a 1-point loss
+13 in a close win in Game 2
-6 in a 30-point blowout in Game 3

30+ pts on great efficiency in all 3 games. Warriors have NO ONE who can stay in front of him in this series.

This game is more about the Grizzlies being desperate & the Warriors not playing with any urgency, and they waited until Ja's injury to play Steven Adams, who was absolutely the main reason they got off to a great start (other than GS just throwing the ball away and shooting themselves in the foot) with his offensive rebounding & the overall physical play and who was also a +13 in the loss in Game 4.

[Full Court]

Yes, but they clearly played a lot better in this series with him on the court.

-1 in a 1-point loss
+13 in a close win in Game 2
-6 in a 30-point blowout in Game 3

30+ pts on great efficiency in all 3 games. Warriors have NO ONE who can stay in front of him in this series.

This game is more about the Grizzlies being desperate & the Warriors not playing with any urgency, and they waited until Ja's injury to play Steven Adams, who was absolutely the main reason they got off to a great start (other than GS just throwing the ball away and shooting themselves in the foot) with his offensive rebounding & the overall physical play and who was also a +13 in the loss in Game 4.

And this is the context that I'm talking about, that certain people in this thread are too dense to understand.

[Foster5k]

Without looking at stats, I can say that they need Ja. They lack a go to scorer when the game is close in the 4th quarter.

[ImKobe]

In 2006 Shaq had two Finals games where he scored nine and five, yes, FIVE points.

By 2010 he was beyond washed. Try again, tardo.

Ok? And wasn't he in is prime when he played with Penny? Wasn't he in his prime when he had Eddie Jones and NVE? He got swept by Utah & San Antonio in the late 90s. What changed in 2000?

You need a closer to win championships, and Shaq's the modern Wilt in a lot of ways. He can't make FTs at a reliable rate. He can't run the offense. You need a lot more to win with Shaq than you do with Kobe, which is why Shaq won 1 ring with Penny/Wade/Nash/Bran while KB made 3 straight Finals and won 2 with Gasol.

[1987_Lakers]

What changed in 2000?



Phil Jackson.

Kobe was always bailed out by his bigs. ala game 7 vs Boston.

[Full Court]

Without looking at stats, I can say that they need Ja. They lack a go to scorer when the game is close in the 4th quarter.

Exactly. Anyone who doesn't get this is either dumb or just a hater. And I don't understand the Morant haters. What's to hate about the guy?

[insight]

Yes, but they clearly played a lot better in this series with him on the court.

-1 in a 1-point loss
+13 in a close win in Game 2
-6 in a 30-point blowout in Game 3

30+ pts on great efficiency in all 3 games. Warriors have NO ONE who can stay in front of him in this series.

This game is more about the Grizzlies being desperate & the Warriors not playing with any urgency, and they waited until Ja's injury to play Steven Adams, who was absolutely the main reason they got off to a great start (other than GS just throwing the ball away and shooting themselves in the foot) with his offensive rebounding & the overall physical play and who was also a +13 in the loss in Game 4.

What about game 4? Memphis dominated Golden State without Ja and gave the game away late. I agree that GS doesn't have anybody to stay in front of him but they are also a better defensive team without him.
I don't think they are better without him but clearly Ja is getting too much credit for their success.

[1987_Lakers]

Exactly. Anyone who doesn't get this is either dumb or just a hater. And I don't understand the Morant haters. What's to hate about the guy?

They were 20-5 without him during the season, 20-2 at one point before they rested their starters, they just beat the Warriors by 40 without Ja.

The fact that you are having a meltdown that this question is being asked is quite hilarious.

It's a good discussion.

[ImKobe]

Phil Jackson.

Kobe was always bailed out by his bigs. ala game 7 vs Boston.

Bailed out? Who got them in the 2 - 3 hole in the first place?

Did Shaq bail out Kobe in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF? Who led the team in pts, reb, ast & blks and beat Pippen over & over again in crunch time of that game? Who closed Game 4 of the Finals to put the Lakers up 3 - 1? You NEED a closer to win championships.

[post]

just accept the dude for what he is

same with booker and trae and all these other americans that are getting outplayed by non americans these days

[insight]

Without looking at stats, I can say that they need Ja. They lack a go to scorer when the game is close in the 4th quarter.

Memphis barely loss game 4, and blew out GS in game 5. They also were like 24-5 in the regular season without Ja. What makes you so sure THE NEED JA?

[1987_Lakers]

Bailed out? Who got them in the 2 - 3 hole in the first place?

Did Shaq bail out Kobe in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF? Who led the team in pts, reb, ast & blks and beat Pippen over & over again in crunch time of that game? Who closed Game 4 of the Finals to put the Lakers up 3 - 1? You NEED a closer to win championships.

Here are Kobe's finals stats

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%

2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%

2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%

2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%

2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%

2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%

2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%



Here are Kobe's game seven stats.

44.2 MPG

22.2 points

FG 38.9%

FT 67.3%

8 RPG

5 APG

1 SPG

1.3 BPG





Here are Kobe's stats when facing elimination.



22.3 PPG

5.8 RPG


3.5 APG

1.3 SPG

1.3 BPG

on a 50.3 TS

[FultzNationRISE]

Without looking at stats, I can say that they need Ja. They lack a go to scorer when the game is close in the 4th quarter.

But there are fewer close games when he doesnt play :hammerhead:

[post]

Bailed out? Who got them in the 2 - 3 hole in the first place?

Did Shaq bail out Kobe in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF? Who led the team in pts, reb, ast & blks and beat Pippen over & over again in crunch time of that game? Who closed Game 4 of the Finals to put the Lakers up 3 - 1? You NEED a closer to win championships.

someone named imkobe is too obsessed with kobe

shocking

[RRR3]

Imagine giving Kobe credit for 2000, ImKobe is absolutely pathetic.

[RRR3]

someone named imkobe is too obsessed with kobe

shocking
:roll:

[ImKobe]

Imagine giving Kobe credit for 2000, ImKobe is absolutely pathetic.

Yes, let's give him 0 credit for averaging 21/5/4 with elite defense and closing out pivotal Playoff games.

Go back and look at who brought up Kobe ITT. OP is a fake Laker fan who's been talking shit about Kobe for damn near 2 decades, but keep defending him.

[8Ball]

Golden state closes this out in 6 games and Grizzlies are a really good team, but better in 7 game series with Ja Morant.

[j3lademaster]

Imagine giving Kobe credit for 2000, ImKobe is absolutely pathetic.that was a one superstar ring if Ive ever seen one. TD gets a ton of credit for 03 and Hakeem for 94, the fact that Shaq’s 00 ring has Kobe’s name included in it massively underrates Shaq’s impact.

[1987_Lakers]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/eb/ff/80ebff5d4895501127835eec2df88dd5.gif



https://media1.giphy.com/media/ycCD6qTrOX10TRnsxA/giphy.gif?cid=790b761160beff8f087e83cbdf72f62ded2b 305e8735cc3e&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[ImKobe]

that was a one superstar ring if Ive ever seen one. TD gets a ton of credit for 03 and Hakeem for 94, the fact that Shaq’s 00 ring has Kobe’s name included in it massively underrates Shaq’s impact.

25/11/7 with 4 blocks in a Game 7 with Shaq putting up a pedestrian 18/9 when it mattered most, coach telling the team to forget about Shaq with the season on the line.. Yeah, KB was just a role player in those POs and did nothing to contribute to any of the wins.

[Axe]

Memphis barely loss game 4, and blew out GS in game 5. They also were like 24-5 in the regular season without Ja. What makes you so sure THE NEED JA?
Last time morant played saw him scoring over 30 points. Tho once looked at the bigger picture, his team was blown out by 30 too.

This time he was absent so his teammates had to step up. The result? Three of them scored over 20 points while six of them scored in double-figures and guess what? Like what you said earlier that's what they did; blowing out GS in the postseason without him.

[1987_Lakers]

that was a one superstar ring if Ive ever seen one. TD gets a ton of credit for 03 and Hakeem for 94, the fact that Shaq’s 00 ring has Kobe’s name included in it massively underrates Shaq’s impact.

:applause:

[post]

memphis could be 100-0 without ja but if ja averaged 50 ppg in losses people would say they are better with him

[ImKobe]

memphis could be 100-0 without ja but if ja averaged 50 ppg in losses people would say they are better with him

So were the Warriors better without Curry in '16 and '18 because they won Playoff games without him? Are the Mavs better without Luka because they won 2 against Utah without him? Were the Clippers better without Kawhi last year because they beat Utah and took 2 from the Suns without him?

[1987_Lakers]

So were the Warriors better without Curry in '16 and '18 because they won Playoff games without him? Are the Mavs better without Luka because they won 2 against Utah without him? Were the Clippers better without Kawhi last year because they beat Utah and took 2 from the Suns without him?

Did the Warriors & Mavs go 20-5 without Curry & Luka?

[post]

So were the Warriors better without Curry in '16 and '18 because they won Playoff games without him? Are the Mavs better without Luka because they won 2 against Utah without him? Were the Clippers better without Kawhi last year because they beat Utah and took 2 from the Suns without him?

reality is often counter intuitive

science proves it all the time

[hold this L]

They're really good but Warriors are playing.. dumb basketball. Adams is killing the Warriors since he returned and what does Kerr do? He tells Steph to go to a corner and watch Draymond be a pretend point guard as nobody guards him. Only coach in the NBA that has a giant missmatch in his face but doesn't bother with it until the later rounds. Makes absolutely no sense that Adams isn't sent through constinous pick & rolls until he's played off the floor as he was in Minny. And that was under a dumbass coach that wouldn't call TOs despite the opposite team coming back from two 20 point leads in 1 game.

It's crazy.

[ImKobe]

Did the Warriors & Mavs go 20-5 without Curry & Luka?

Suns were 2 - 0 without CP3 in the WCF last year. Were they also better without him?

It's much harder to win a Playoff game. Warriors essentially went 4 - 2 (he only played 18 minutes in one of those Rockets games and was a non-factor with a +/- of 0 and 6 pts on bad shooting) without Curry in the '16 POs and 5 - 1 in '18.

If you combine GSW's, PHO's & DAL' teams records without them in the POs, we get a 13 - 4 record. That's significantly better than going 20 - 5 in the RS against a mix of good/bad teams and guys sitting out due to load management etc.

[Kawhi_Why_Not]

They're really good but Warriors are playing.. dumb basketball. Adams is killing the Warriors since he returned and what does Kerr do? He tells Steph to go to a corner and watch Draymond be a pretend point guard as nobody guards him. Only coach in the NBA that has a giant missmatch in his face but doesn't bother with it until the later rounds. Makes absolutely no sense that Adams isn't sent through constinous pick & rolls until he's played off the floor as he was in Minny. And that was under a dumbass coach that wouldn't call TOs despite the opposite team coming back from two 20 point leads in 1 game.

It's crazy.

Kerr isn't even there you dumbf*ck

not his fault curry is a cuck without him

[1987_Lakers]

Suns were 2 - 0 without CP3 in the WCF last year. Were they also better without him?

It's much harder to win a Playoff game. Warriors essentially went 4 - 2 (he only played 18 minutes in one of those Rockets games and was a non-factor with a +/- of 0 and 6 pts on bad shooting) without Curry in the '16 POs and 5 - 1 in '18.

If you combine GSW's, PHO's & DAL' teams records without them in the POs, we get a 13 - 4 record. That's significantly better than going 20 - 5 in the RS against a mix of good/bad teams and guys sitting out due to load management etc.
So still not as good as 20-5, (20-2 at one point)

Not everyone has LeBron level impact, just ask the Cavs how they did without him.

[Axe]

Over 55% voted yes so far. Interesting.

[GimmeThat]

They're really good but Warriors are playing.. dumb basketball. Adams is killing the Warriors since he returned and what does Kerr do? He tells Steph to go to a corner and watch Draymond be a pretend point guard as nobody guards him. Only coach in the NBA that has a giant missmatch in his face but doesn't bother with it until the later rounds. Makes absolutely no sense that Adams isn't sent through constinous pick & rolls until he's played off the floor as he was in Minny. And that was under a dumbass coach that wouldn't call TOs despite the opposite team coming back from two 20 point leads in 1 game.

It's crazy.

so you're openly admitting that the Warriors have 0 ability cutting to the basket even with shooters spreading the floor.

[justin43]

They're really good but Warriors are playing.. dumb basketball. Adams is killing the Warriors since he returned and what does Kerr do? He tells Steph to go to a corner and watch Draymond be a pretend point guard as nobody guards him. Only coach in the NBA that has a giant missmatch in his face but doesn't bother with it until the later rounds. Makes absolutely no sense that Adams isn't sent through constinous pick & rolls until he's played off the floor as he was in Minny. And that was under a dumbass coach that wouldn't call TOs despite the opposite team coming back from two 20 point leads in 1 game.

It's crazy.

Warriors cant allow Steven adams to stay in the game. The Grizzlies are much better when Adams is on the floor with or without Morant. This forum seems to think not having Ja on the floor makes the Grizzlies better. The real answer is having Adams on the floor.

[post]

Warriors cant allow Steven adams to stay in the game. The Grizzlies are much better when Adams is on the floor with or without Morant. This forum seems to think not having Ja on the floor makes the Grizzlies better. The real answer is having Adams on the floor.

adams didn't even play in game 2 and memphis won

[post]

what memphis really needed was closer morant in game 1 and they wouldn't have lost by 1

wait a second

morant played in game 1

[GimmeThat]

Warriors cant allow Steven adams to stay in the game. The Grizzlies are much better when Adams is on the floor with or without Morant. This forum seems to think not having Ja on the floor makes the Grizzlies better. The real answer is having Adams on the floor.

Wiggins is taking and making 1 less 3 per game so far in this series, and supposedly, by the Warriors basketball standards, Adams should be someone very easy to lob over.

[RRR3]

that was a one superstar ring if Ive ever seen one. TD gets a ton of credit for 03 and Hakeem for 94, the fact that Shaq’s 00 ring has Kobe’s name included in it massively underrates Shaq’s impact.
But Kobe hit a few clutch shots so he gets equal credit :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

memphis could be 100-0 without ja but if ja averaged 50 ppg in losses people would say they are better with him
Lmao it’s sad because it’s true.

[GimmeThat]

what memphis really needed was closer morant in game 1 and they wouldn't have lost by 1

wait a second

morant played in game 1

Poole had the most playing time in game 1, who has since seen a diminished role in order to slow the pace down in order for the Warriors to play a grind it out game and let the outcome be determined in the 4th quarter. or you can say he's been neutralized by Brooks.

[justin43]

adams didn't even play in game 2 and memphis won

Adams makes the game easier for Memphis because they can get more possessions with his rebounding. There is a reason Memphis got a lot more possessions than Golden State. By the way Memphis lost game one due to rebounding. Dont underrate Adams value to Memphis game plan.

[GimmeThat]

memphis could be 100-0 without ja but if ja averaged 50 ppg in losses people would say they are better with him

because people choose not to freeze out Ja and take the loss instead of freezing him out the way Jordan froze out Thomas.

[GimmeThat]

Adams makes the game easier for Memphis because they can get more possessions with his rebounding. There is a reason Memphis got a lot more possessions than Golden State. By the way Memphis lost game one due to rebounding. Dont underrate Adams value to Memphis game plan.

will it haunt me if I say he's more important to the Memphis's game plan than the all star starter Wiggins to Golden State's

[post]

Adams makes the game easier for Memphis because they can get more possessions with his rebounding. There is a reason Memphis got a lot more possessions than Golden State. By the way Memphis lost game one due to rebounding. Dont underrate Adams value to Memphis game plan.

adams had 15 rebounds in game 4 and they lost

winning 47 out of 48 minutes on the road in game 4 and then demolishing gs in game 5 is best explained by morant not playing

[justin43]

adams had 15 rebounds in game 4 and they lost

winning 47 out of 48 minutes on the road in game 4 and then demolishing gs in game 5 is best explained by morant not playing

That is why they lost game 4. No closer(ja morant). You disprove your own point. Just look back at the Timberwolves series. Memphis struggled since Adams was unplayable. Making Adams unplayable or a disadvantage may be the key to closeout. Memphis thrives out of getting more possesions than their opponent. Missing Adams cut off a key part on what made Memphis tough. I know the internet would rather hate Morant, but Adams is the foundation for Memphis game crazy as it sounds. Not morant be unavailable.

[Taurus]

The real question is why the Grizzlies coach took so long to use Steven Adams more. I understand that the Timberwolves are a bad matchup for him, but he gives the Warriors so many problems.

[Taurus]

adams had 15 rebounds in game 4 and they lost

winning 47 out of 48 minutes on the road in game 4 and then demolishing gs in game 5 is best explained by morant not playing

Adams was yanked pretty early in the 4th quarter of game 4.

Subbed out around the 8 minute mark and didn't return until under 30 seconds left.

[justin43]

Steven adams had covid first 2 games. Had to get nack in game shape game 3.

[Taurus]

Steven adams had covid first 2 games. Had to get nack in game shape game 3.

Yeah that's the only logical explanation I can think of

[justin43]

Yeah that's the only logical explanation I can think of

Missing Steven Adams that first game was so critical to the Warriors win. The Warriors dont get those critical offensive rebounds with Adams there.

[post]

Poole had the most playing time in game 1, who has since seen a diminished role in order to slow the pace down in order for the Warriors to play a grind it out game and let the outcome be determined in the 4th quarter. or you can say he's been neutralized by Brooks.

poole will have his ups and downs like anyone

[post]

because people choose not to freeze out Ja and take the loss instead of freezing him out the way Jordan froze out Thomas.

there you go

[GimmeThat]

as 3ba11 would put it, the Grizzlies play a better brand of ball

[post]

That is why they lost game 4. No closer(ja morant). You disprove your own point. Just look back at the Timberwolves series. Memphis struggled since Adams was unplayable. Making Adams unplayable or a disadvantage may be the key to closeout. Memphis thrives out of getting more possesions than their opponent. Missing Adams cut off a key part on what made Memphis tough. I know the internet would rather hate Morant, but Adams is the foundation for Memphis game crazy as it sounds. Not morant be unavailable.

i don't hate morant

and i'd be less inclined to comment at all if the media wasn't desperately overrating him and others

in a futile effort to stave off the decline of american basektball dominance which kobe himself said was inevitable

[GimmeThat]

in a futile effort to stave off the decline of american basektball dominance which kobe himself said was inevitable

you can tell how corrupted America were by how the transition of only amateurs to professional players allowed in international competition was handled.

[post]

as 3ba11 would put it, the Grizzlies play a better brand of ball

as did stockton and duncan

the little fundamental and the big fundamental

[post]

you can tell how corrupted America were by how the transition of only amateurs to professional players allowed in international competition was handled.

the russian untermensch must be destroyed

their philosophy not mine

[SouBeachTalents]

Regardless of if you feel they’re better with or without Morant, it’s nearly unprecedented how good they are without him. The only other team that played THIS well without their star player were the Warriors without Durant

[Bronbron23]

:confusedshrug:

No but they give a different look when he's not there so it's hard to game plan against them. They go from a ball dominant team with ja to a team with lots of on and off ball movement without him. Credit to ja throughout the season he'd often play off ball and allow this to happen to even with him on the floor.

[ArbitraryWater]

100% they are.

[ArbitraryWater]

No but they give a different look when he's not there so it's hard to game plan against them. They go from a ball dominant team with ja to a team with lots of on and off ball movement without him. Credit to ja throughout the season he'd often play off ball and allow this to happen to even with him on the floor.

what bullshit is this? :oldlol:


Every team has missed their star at one point.

Doesnt mean giving a "different look" was good enough for them to have a 75% winning record and bully teams in the playoffs :oldlol:


Man you have some dumb takes

[Manny98]

No their ceiling is higher with Ja

And the big reason they blew the Warriors last night was the fact that they inserted Adams back into the rotation which led to the Grizzlies out rebounding the Warriors by 20+

There have been multiple games this playoffs that the Grizzlies would not have won without Ja

[FultzNationRISE]

No their ceiling is higher with Ja

And the big reason they blew the Warriors last night was the fact that they inserted Adams back into the rotation which led to the Grizzlies out rebounding the Warriors by 20+

There have been multiple games this playoffs that the Grizzlies would not have won without Ja

This is a good point, he did give them a big lift with his hustle/physicality.

That said... the rate at which they win with and without Ja is kind of hard to ignore. I dont have anything against the guy and Im not pushing the idea just to spite the likes of m8 and Pero Antic (altho it’s a nice ancillary consequence). But winning vs not winning is pretty empirical evidence...

[tpols]

Steven Adams is making the difference right now. The warriors frontcourt is undersized. He's way bigger than the dubs biggest players. And I saw Wiggins get stuck on,him a bunch... that's not going to work.

[Bronbron23]

what bullshit is this? :oldlol:


Every team has missed their star at one point.

Doesnt mean giving a "different look" was good enough for them to have a 75% winning record and bully teams in the playoffs :oldlol:


Man you have some dumb takes

Bruh fact is if this same squad was in Los Angeles with Bron they wouldn't be beating teams without Bron the way the are without ja. There's a reason for this but you're in too stupid to understand.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bruh fact is if this same squad was in Los Angeles with Bron they wouldn't be beating teams without Bron the way the are without ja. There's a reason for this but you're in too stupid to understand.

What the **** are you rambling about?

LA?

LeBron?

What the **** is wrong with you?

[ImKobe]

Man you have some dumb takes

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

Looking at the morons ITT, you'd think this was the first time that a team played well with their star player out.

[1987_Lakers]

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

Looking at the morons ITT, you'd think this was the first time that a team played well with their star player out.

Lakers had a losing record without Shaq and a winning record without Kobe.

:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Kind of ironic, isn't it?

Looking at the morons ITT, you'd think this was the first time that a team played well with their star player out.

I cant recall many teams without their best player blowing out the odds-on championship favorites by 40 in the playoffs nor going 20-5 without said player,

but enlighten us!


Much like I am waiting for you to enlighten us here:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504347-The-Grizzlies-are-simply-a-different-team-without-Ja

[Bronbron23]

What the **** are you rambling about?

LA?

LeBron?

What the **** is wrong with you?

It's simple little buddy. The grizzlies supporting cast wouldn't be as successful with Bron as their leader. He would of destroyed their confidence and pigeon holed them into playing his brand of ball with shit on and off ball movement. I'm sorry if this fact triggers you:lol

[RRR3]

It's simple little buddy. The grizzlies supporting cast wouldn't be as successful with Bron as their leader. He would of destroyed their confidence and pigeon holed them into playing his brand of ball with shit on and off ball movement. I'm sorry if this fact triggers you:lol
Ja literally is more ball dominant than LeBron, they literally track this stuff, unfotunately for your agenda.

[1987_Lakers]

I cant recall many teams without their best player blowing out the odds-on championship favorites by 40 in the playoffs nor going 20-5 without said player,

but enlighten us!


Much like I am waiting for you to enlighten us here:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504347-The-Grizzlies-are-simply-a-different-team-without-Ja

20-2 at one point before the Grizzlies rested their players.

No star in NBA history had "his" team play this well without him.

[RRR3]

Time of possession


Ja Morant: 7.6 minutes per game

LeBron James: 6.2 minutes per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1



Dumbdumb23: Ja's team is good without him because he isn't ball dominant like LeBron!


:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Time of possession


Ja Morant: 7.6 minutes per game

LeBron James: 6.2 minutes per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1



Dumbdumb23: Ja's team is good without him because he isn't ball dominant like LeBron!


:roll:

:lol

[Bronbron23]

Time of possession


Ja Morant: 7.6 minutes per game

LeBron James: 6.2 minutes per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1



Dumbdumb23: Ja's team is good without him because he isn't ball dominant like LeBron!


:roll:

Nobody said he wasn't ball dominant idiot. in fact I said he was ball dominant like Bron. Unlike Bron though ja will move off ball and allow his team to play with elite movement. He's also been a much better leader this year. Bron was a terrible leader this year. Even your Stan ass has to admit that.

[tpols]

Time of possession


Ja Morant: 7.6 minutes per game

LeBron James: 6.2 minutes per game

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1



Dumbdumb23: Ja's team is good without him because he isn't ball dominant like LeBron!


:roll:

Ja Morant may be ball dominant but he is the point guard. That's normal. A lot of that time is spent dribbling the ball,up the court. Westbrick was LAs point guard so LeBron almost matched Ja without even being a full time point guard.

[ImKobe]

I cant recall many teams without their best player blowing out the odds-on championship favorites by 40 in the playoffs nor going 20-5 without said player,

but enlighten us!


Much like I am waiting for you to enlighten us here:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504347-The-Grizzlies-are-simply-a-different-team-without-Ja

So how many #1 options on a #2 seed are only making 9 million with their 2nd and 3rd best players combining for roughly 12 mil in salary?

Yes, Bran making 40-50 million is going to have a worse team around him, no shit.

[RRR3]

:mad:
He's literally more ball dominant than LeBron you idiot. Why are you arguing with someone who just proved you wrong with literal facts? Just admit you were wrong, it's not that ****ing hard. Legitimately embarrassed for you seeing you try to argue against facts.

[Bronbron23]

He's literally more ball dominant than LeBron you idiot. Why are you arguing with someone who just proved you wrong with literal facts? Just admit you were wrong, it's not that ****ing hard. Legitimately embarrassed for you seeing you try to argue against facts.

How in the hell did you prove me wrong lol. Can u not read? I said in my post ja was ball dominant. Nowhere did I say he wasn't ball dominant. Learn to read before you comment idiot.

And not all ball dominance is the same dummy. MJ, bird and Kobe could all be ball dominant. When they didn't have the ball though they were elite moving off ball. This is something Bron isn't and has never been. He was ok in Miami but even then it wasn't elite.

I swear Bron Stans don't understand the game for shit :facepalm

[j3lademaster]

Lebron isn’t that ball dominant by any metric. If you want to go by dribbles by touch, sec per touch. Lebron averaged 30 with 6 assists, hardly anyone at that kind of offensive production gets assisted on 45% of their fg’s. For reference Jimmy Butler avg 40%, Derozan is at 27%… no one will consider him ball dominant, harden 21%, Luka 14%. Durant and Curry are elite assist targets for non-bigs at 51% and 48% respectively, so Lebron’s not quite there(mostly because he can’t shoot like those guys), but he’s an underrated offball player. The other myth that needs to die is that Lebron needs to be surrounded by shooters like that’s something exclusive to him. Which superstar doesn’t play way better surrounded by shooters? Hint: it isn’t just Lebron.

[RRR3]

:mad:
LeBron can move fine off the ball, you just hate him. Ja is not an elite off the ball player by any stretch, that's ridiculous, stop making shit up. The Grizzlies ball movement is signficantly better without Morant and you're out here making up shit about how he "allows" them to flourish by playing off ball when he's one of the most ball dominant players in entire league. Only Luka has been more ball dominant than him in the playoffs, you're literally just spewing out easily disproven falsehoods. Come back with stuff that actually happened in reality, not emotional bullshit.

[RRR3]

Lebron isn’t that ball dominant by any metric. If you want to go by dribbles by touch, sec per touch. Lebron averaged 30 with 6 assists, hardly anyone at that kind of offensive production gets assisted on 45% of their fg’s. For reference Jimmy Butler avg 40%, Derozan is at 27%… no one will consider him ball dominant, harden 21%, Luka 14%. Durant and Curry are elite assist targets for non-bigs at 51% and 48% respectively, so Lebron’s not quite there(mostly because he can’t shoot like those guys), but he’s an underrated offball player. The other myth that needs to die is that Lebron needs to be surrounded by shooters like that’s something exclusive to him. Which superstar doesn’t play way better surrounded by shooters? Hint: it isn’t just Lebron.
You can give dumbdumb23 as many facts as you want, he will continue to argue with it, because what he FEELS is just more important than reality. Absolutely incredible stuff.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They definitely play harder and do less standing around.

Are they better without him overall? Doubt it. That's like me saying Ja's numbers (an efficient 38/8/7 in this series) are empty.

[8Ball]

Lebron isn’t that ball dominant by any metric. If you want to go by dribbles by touch, sec per touch. Lebron averaged 30 with 6 assists, hardly anyone at that kind of offensive production gets assisted on 45% of their fg’s. For reference Jimmy Butler avg 40%, Derozan is at 27%… no one will consider him ball dominant, harden 21%, Luka 14%. Durant and Curry are elite assist targets for non-bigs at 51% and 48% respectively, so Lebron’s not quite there(mostly because he can’t shoot like those guys), but he’s an underrated offball player. The other myth that needs to die is that Lebron needs to be surrounded by shooters like that’s something exclusive to him. Which superstar doesn’t play way better surrounded by shooters? Hint: it isn’t just Lebron.

High IQ poster right here.

[Bronbron23]

LeBron can move fine off the ball, you just hate him. Ja is not an elite off the ball player by any stretch, that's ridiculous, stop making shit up. The Grizzlies ball movement is signficantly better without Morant and you're out here making up shit about how he "allows" them to flourish by playing off ball when he's one of the most ball dominant players in entire league. Only Luka has been more ball dominant than him in the playoffs, you're literally just spewing out easily disproven falsehoods. Come back with stuff that actually happened in reality, not emotional bullshit.
You lost all credibility by saying Bron is fine off ball. He isn't fine off ball he's trash off ball and everyone except u and the other Bron Stans on here knows it.

And no ja isn't elite off ball but he does move and cut off ball when the play isn't being run through him unlike Bron who usually just stands there. Or do you want to argue that fact also :roll:

[FKAri]

No. That would be a awful take. Maybe a better way to put it would be could they replace Ja with equivalent talent and get more out of it than they do with Ja?



You lost all credibility by saying Bron is fine off ball. He isn't fine off ball he's trash off ball and everyone except u and the other Bron Stans on here knows it.

And no ja isn't elite off ball but he does move and cut off ball when the play isn't being run through him unlike Bron who usually just stands there. Or do you want to argue that fact also :roll:

I wouldn't expect old ass Bron to be running and cutting like a 22 year old PG. Lebron's not great off the ball but his problems in that regard are overblown. That Laker team has no one else to put on the ball that isn't an idiot. So even if Lebron were better off the ball it doesn't help that particular team.

[Full Court]

Lebron isn’t that ball dominant by any metric. If you want to go by dribbles by touch, sec per touch. Lebron averaged 30 with 6 assists, hardly anyone at that kind of offensive production gets assisted on 45% of their fg’s. For reference Jimmy Butler avg 40%, Derozan is at 27%… no one will consider him ball dominant, harden 21%, Luka 14%. Durant and Curry are elite assist targets for non-bigs at 51% and 48% respectively, so Lebron’s not quite there(mostly because he can’t shoot like those guys), but he’s an underrated offball player. The other myth that needs to die is that Lebron needs to be surrounded by shooters like that’s something exclusive to him. Which superstar doesn’t play way better surrounded by shooters? Hint: it isn’t just Lebron.


I don't disagree with this. Fact is, it's a team sport and nobody gets anywhere without help. However, the fact is also that Lebron is much worse off ball then other superstars. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any "greats" who are as bad off ball as Lebron.

[FultzNationRISE]

I don't disagree with this. Fact is, it's a team sport and nobody gets anywhere without help. However, the fact is also that Lebron is much worse off ball then other superstars. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any "greats" who are as bad off ball as Lebron.

^ Problem with this logic is youre speaking exclusively about half court sets, which is not the only way to play off ball.

In transition, Lebron is one of - if not THE most - dangerous off ball players ever.

Between running the wing in transition and running the point in half court sets, the amount of time for which Lebron’s half court off-ball value comes into play is minimal. Even then, he’s a GOOD (not great, but GOOD) catch and shoot guy. It’s just not the optimal way for his team to run most posessions.

GOAT transition, GOAT point forward, GOOD catch and shoot...

It adds up to the greatest and most hung player to ever lace em up, simple as that. :confusedshrug:

[bison]

Youre missing a crucial point bozo.

It’s much better to just win more games outright and not need a closer as often, than to be a worse team overall but with a “closer” :hammerhead:

A brain stain would know about this.

Who needs wins when you got $tat$

[warriorfan]

Warriors just played shit basketball. This is a retarded ass thread.

[RRR3]

No. That would be a awful take. Maybe a better way to put it would be could they replace Ja with equivalent talent and get more out of it than they do with Ja?




I wouldn't expect old ass Bron to be running and cutting like a 22 year old PG. Lebron's not great off the ball but his problems in that regard are overblown. That Laker team has no one else to put on the ball that isn't an idiot. So even if Lebron were better off the ball it doesn't help that particular team.
Yeah but he’s also an idiot so he doesn’t get this. LeBron played off ball early in the year I literally watched him do it, he gave up doing when it became clear to him Westbrook was too much of a scrub to handle being the lead ball handler. But dumbdumb23 thinks Bron should have continued to let arguably the worst player in the league dominate the ball :lol

[Bronbron23]

No. That would be a awful take. Maybe a better way to put it would be could they replace Ja with equivalent talent and get more out of it than they do with Ja?




I wouldn't expect old ass Bron to be running and cutting like a 22 year old PG. Lebron's not great off the ball but his problems in that regard are overblown. That Laker team has no one else to put on the ball that isn't an idiot. So even if Lebron were better off the ball it doesn't help that particular team.

We'll 35 year old MJ did it. So did broke back bird. You don't have to be young to move off ball Bron just didn't like doing so. It was a point of contention when he was in Miami with spols. That said I agree it can get overblown mainly because he's so good dominating the ball. It can be a problem however when Bron doesn't play like this year and the team hasn't worked on on and off ball movement and now they have no identity because they can't move off ball and they don't have anyone in to effectively control the ball and game.

[Bronbron23]

Yeah but he’s also an idiot so he doesn’t get this. LeBron played off ball early in the year I literally watched him do it, he gave up doing when it became clear to him Westbrook was too much of a scrub to handle being the lead ball handler. But dumbdumb23 thinks Bron should have continued to let arguably the worst player in the league dominate the ball :lol

No dummy I get it I responded on that. What you don't get is the Lakers had almost zero off ball movement all year. My little nephews u12 team had better off ball movement than the Lakers this year. So all year they never worked on it so once the only player they had that could effectively control the ball and game was gone they didn't know how to play. This is basic af btw. Not surprised your dumbass didn't get it.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Its becoming a question around here.

[1987_Lakers]

Next time ask permission before bumping my thread buddy.

[Full Court]

It needs to be discussed: is OP legitimately retarded?

[Axe]

One thing is certain, Mike Brown is going to be a disastrous hire for Sacramento.
This was wrong tho, op. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

It needs to be discussed: is OP legitimately retarded?

Tell me again how Chris Mullin led the Dream Team in rebounding.

[1987_Lakers]

This was wrong tho, op. :oldlol:

For sure, Mike Brown looking great in Sac at the moment.

[Axe]

For sure, Mike Brown looking great in Sac at the moment.
:cheers:

Still coty awardee

[Nike D'Antoni]

Next time ask permission before bumping my thread buddy.

There is no private mesage feature.

[RRR3]

Man I forgot how painfully stupid Dumbdumb23 was. Glad he doesn't post anymore.

[Full Court]

Tell me again how Chris Mullin led the Dream Team in rebounding.

Tell me again what an advanced stat is.

Oh, that's right. You don't know.


:yaohappy:

[Nike D'Antoni]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1649090572681089026

[Axe]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1649090572681089026
Just an overrated dunker with very little impact in the playoffs. :eek:

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6hidM6vCC4vHsfw4l-MKSPqo5i1UFmLzAQg&usqp=CAU

:yaohappy:

[1987_Lakers]

1-4 with Morant, 1-0 without him.

3-16 shooting tonight, got blown out by 40. :lol

[SATAN]

How many times did Morant wince in pain and shake the shit out of his hand since injury? What the **** is that supposed to accomplish? Probably just making the injury worse.

Dude needs to chill out a bit.

[RRR3]

1-4 with Morant, 1-0 without him.

3-16 shooting tonight, got blown out by 40. :lol
DLo was blowing by him. DLO. Aka the slowest PG in the league. Getting cooked by DLo on jumpers is one thing (he's a good shooter) but on drives? ASS

[ILLsmak]

1-4 with Morant, 1-0 without him.

3-16 shooting tonight, got blown out by 40. :lol

v lal tho nah? I liked him til I realized ppl were so juiced on his almost dunks. Dude is lucky to be intact. The real dunkers go to the rim with a diff balance. Even a guy like Russ. It’d take one wrong clip and ja could be injured. For what? U put someone on a poster for a reason (not that I’ve ever done it,) other than hahhh another poster. That’s what a lot of todays dunkers are missing, ability to really punctuate. Sure I bet his dunks have won games, and lal is kinda super stacked with all the role players they picked up, as long as they stay healthy they gonna be good til the suns abolish them.

Edit: actual answer no they aren’t. If anything they need more doods, not fewer.

-Smak

[8Ball]

:confusedshrug:

OP is wise beyond years.

Legendary thread.

[Carbine]

He is an immature, non winning player right now.

He's still extremely young, but whatever his consensus "rank" is would be massively over inflated. His impact doesn't reflect a top ten player.

[Carbine]

He's extremely lucky to be playing with JJJ and Bane, both who have intangibles that make up for Morants lack of them.

[1987_Lakers]

DLo was blowing by him. DLO. Aka the slowest PG in the league. Getting cooked by DLo on jumpers is one thing (he's a good shooter) but on drives? ASS

I'm trying to think of a worse defensive PG than Morant who is/was labeled a "star". We all know Magic couldn't play D, but he was actually not too bad on that end when he was young.

I'm guessing Nash, but he didn't have the physical traits most NBA players have. Morant is God awful on that end, he shouldn't be that bad with the physical traits he has.

[1987_Lakers]

OP is wise beyond years.

Legendary thread.

:cheers: