Rod Strickland, Harden, and Kyrie make the same play. The one from 1991 is a travel.

[Kblaze8855]

Forgive my boredom in this pregame. Let me just show you something real quick then let you be and we can discuss it later….




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AccomplishedAmbitiousHellbender-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SimilarWeepyLemming-size_restricted.gif






31 years ago. Travel.


These days:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PowerlessEsteemedBighornedsheep-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FrailSpryCopepod-size_restricted.gif





Legal.

Im not here to call the new ones travels. The league decided that first step is merely finishing the last dribble and is a “zero” step. So 3 steps are 0-1-2. You write it that way…fine. Not a travel. Let’s not argue that. Rod can’t do it. His godson can. People take such things and conclude players are capable of more amazing things when there is more to it. Whatever.

My question to you is…are you ok with it? You were told 2 steps all your life. People might take 3 and get away with it be it 1935 or now(I actually have clips of some brutal 30s travels by the way). But it’s actually written now. You can take 3 steps.

All I wanna know is are you fine with that decision and what do you think of making the game easier for the “top” level instead of harder? Must be so hard teaching kids to play and not travel when the nba legalizes it. It’s legal there. But almost nowhere else. So kids can’t emulate their heroes moves legally on most levels. I’m sure they do it anyway and largely get away with it but you know what I mean.

Just some pregame rambling. I’ll get back to this later unless there’s a massive blowout that brings me back sooner….

[kawhileonard2]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.

[2much_knowledge]

Any person with half a brain knows while today has more talent, it also easier than ever to inflate numbers due to rule changes. Undeniable truth

[Kblaze8855]

Any person with half a brain knows while today has more talent, it also easier than ever to inflate numbers due to rule changes. Undeniable truth

Its weird to me for the league to both want to push the idea that the players are better but allow them to play an easier game.

Not like Harden, Kyrie, Giannis, and so on can’t destroy you with 2 steps. You look for it you can find them doing amazing previously legal drives. But you give some of these guys the extra step(s) it’s like guarding Barry Sanders



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VagueShorttermKentrosaurus-size_restricted.gif






I can see how Wilt had a resentment of a lot of more modern players when he’d say in his day they kept changing the rules to make it harder for him but they change it now to make it easier.

I get that people love offense but when does it end?

Manu, Wade, and others were absolutely destroying guys and mostly having to take 2 steps on moves like this. Wade had people frozen. Manu could two step with a number of variations. It was entertaining. But the people complaining about some violations going uncalled makes them simply lie and call the first step 0 instead of 1 so it’s 0-1-2(legal) not 1-2-3(travel)?

That had to be maybe the laziest fix to a problem ever.

We probably all need to shut up about the unstoppable carry moves too. They used to see it and try to make people like AI and Rod stop with a run of heavy enforcement. We complain too much now they’ll make a “The bottom of the ball is part of the side” rule official. Sounds ludicrous but no more so than calling a step 0 instead of 1.

[97 bulls]

Its weird to me for the league to both want to push the idea that the players are better but allow them to play an easier game.

Not like Harden, Kyrie, Giannis, and so on can’t destroy you with 2 steps. You look for it you can find them doing amazing previously legal drives. But you give some of these guys the extra step(s) it’s like guarding Barry Sanders



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VagueShorttermKentrosaurus-size_restricted.gif






I can see how Wilt had a resentment of a lot of more modern players when he’d say in his day they kept changing the rules to make it harder for him but they change it now to make it easier.

I get that people love offense but when does it end?

Manu, Wade, and others were absolutely destroying guys and mostly having to take 2 steps on moves like this. Wade had people frozen. Manu could two step with a number of variations. It was entertaining. But the people complaining about some violations going uncalled makes them simply lie and call the first step 0 instead of 1 so it’s 0-1-2(legal) not 1-2-3(travel)?

That had to be maybe the laziest fix to a problem ever.

We probably all need to shut up about the unstoppable carry moves too. They used to see it and try to make people like AI and Rod stop with a run of heavy enforcement. We complain too much now they’ll make a “The bottom of the ball is part of the side” rule official. Sounds ludicrous but no more so than calling a step 0 instead of 1.

I always say the rule changes in basketball are similar to the ones implemented in football for the DBs and WRs. It's do much more easier for wide receivers to get open today due to the rule changes. And no football fan denies it. Or says players today are better and use stats as an argument. I've only seen this logic with NBA fans. It's weird.

[tpols]

I always say the rule changes in basketball are similar to the ones implemented in football for the DBs and WRs. It's do much more easier for wide receivers to get open today due to the rule changes. And no football fan denies it. Or says players today are better and use stats as an argument. I've only seen this logic with NBA fans. It's weird.

Somebody here after the super bowl said cooper kupp is the greatest WR of the past 20 years because of his stats. And I was thinking shit... Randy moss and Terrell Owens played in the past 20 years. There s no way cooper kupp was better than Julio Jones or Megatron either. Guys used to get killed going over the middle. So all these fancy plays where you have tall slender WRs running all his midrange action... they would get laid out 20 years ago. Nowadays its a big penalty to "hit a defenseless receiver". So they just made the rules softer for offense which is why we see the stat increase.

[ShawkFactory]

Rod Strickland and Tim Hardaway would be absolute nightmares today.

[97 bulls]

Somebody here after the super bowl said cooper kupp is the greatest WR of the past 20 years because of his stats. And I was thinking shit... Randy moss and Terrell Owens played in the past 20 years. There s no way cooper kupp was better than Julio Jones or Megatron either. Guys used to get killed going over the middle. So all these fancy plays where you have tall slender WRs running all his midrange action... they would get laid out 20 years ago. Nowadays its a big penalty to "hit a defenseless receiver". So they just made the rules softer for offense which is why we see the stat increase.

Leagues have always taken steps towards offense. That's what fans want to see. The rules for WRs in the NFL, the MLB lowering the pitchers mound to help hitters, or the rule changes in basketball.

What's insane is the blatant willingness to ignore these facts. Over 200 people have viewed this thread. But very few responses. But these same viewers will then go and make a thread or comment in a thread, talking about how much more talented and skilled and athletic the league is today.

I remember Bob Cousey saying that alot of the assists Magic Johnson was credited with wouldn't have been considered an assist in his time. The term inconvient truth has never been more appropriate.

[Kblaze8855]

But these same viewers will then go and make a thread or comment in a thread, talking about how much more talented and skilled and athletic the league is today.



I don’t exactly have a problem with that. Almost every era since the 60s had easier rules than the one before it because entertainment beats fundamentals every time. I can acknowledge the incredible skills of a lot of these guys even as they break old rules. Like you mentioned I would like people to acknowledge the benefit of not having to play by the rules but really…if you’re 19? You don’t remember the rules being enforced differently.


There was a time that a hesi that even approached a carry or discontinued dribble was illegal. There is no way a guy on Jordan’s level gets called for this today:




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PlaintiveLazyArctichare-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FittingUnitedHapuku-size_restricted.gif





It does look like he almost touched it with the off hand but he didn’t. That little bit of hesi or fumble just looks awkward.


Today?

Kyrie uses a hand switch hesi as a common move nightly. It’s an evolution of the carry hesi Isaiah and Kemba killed people with.

You carry the ball up….use your off hand to “shadow” it and give the impression you’re pulling up. People train to do it and there are many kids watching videos teaching it:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BothImpartialFairybluebird-size_restricted.gif





Done at high speed you don’t even see the carry and you only simulate the double dribble as Steph does here:







https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CarefulFearfulEquine-size_restricted.gif







The problem is they do it so often and so quickly and have the credibility lent to them by their legit skills refs don’t see when they:






https://thumbs.gfycat.com/IdenticalVagueGrassspider-size_restricted.gif






which is completely unguardable.


How do you defend a Steph or a Kyrie when they pick up the ball and look at the rim? They’re too good not to honor the shot fake hesi and every single one of those moves would be called a carry or a double dribble in the past.


I’ve watched Steph carry twice and shot fake double dribble in like 3 seconds. Kyrie might do it on back to back dribbles. He’s so quick with it and the refs know he’s nasty and his moves are hard to follow so he gets away with it under the assumption he’s just that good.


If you don’t remember a shot fake hesi being a discontinued dribble it’s just a nice move not a “Wtf?”.


And old people complaining sound like the old people complaining to us about Jordan traveling. I don’t know where it will be in 20 years but I bet whatever insane moves they workshop and master Kyrie could do today if they let him.

Double dribbles will probably be downright legal by then.

[HylianNightmare]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.



This. And people act like if you gave any 70s or 80s team some time to adjust they would still get destroyed by today's teams

[r0drig0lac]

Another reason why numbers are inflated and easier to score nowadays.

this and illegal screens are the only reasons there are so many "super talented offensive players", product of the clowning that are the current rules.

[3ba11]

do you have a problem with it


Yes because the extras carry and travel ability allows today's players to make more athletic-looking plays and dunks... So everyone thinks they're more athletic when it's a function of the extras momentum gleaned from the travel and carries.

We already know that Ben Johnson ran a 9.78 in 1988 and the current record is an abnormal 9.58... so 0.2 seconds isn't making guys get over the rim more than before... But the carries and travels do.. they allow extra momentum heading towards the rim

[Im Still Ballin]

Carrying + travelling + illegal screens + no hand-checking + freedom of movement rule

[Kblaze8855]

The freedom of movement and illegal screens could be a whole other topic. They are just buzzwords now and the change is so built in that fans no longer notice. Those first couple years of really getting it the way they wanted it called and training defenders in the new way to play?

Shit like this is how they got rid of defense:



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You don’t even see anything like a foul there. And when play continues(this is the very same clip split in two):

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they get him again!




They made everyone go watch the film and adjust. Not only can you not hold off the ball you can’t touch to feel when they go. Kyle Anderson was talking about that once. He’s not even used to real 2000s and earlier physical off ball d. He’s a fully modern player and when they changed he was complaining about not even being able to keep track off the ball with a light touch to see which way a guy might go.

Sure you can find plays with contact now but it is a whole different game to what Reggie or Jordan types had to do off the ball to get open. They beat it out of the defenders. Now contact is a mistake. Guys used to just hold your jersey. You’d see jerseys coming untucked on every few cuts. Guys like Reggie and Iverson would have the collar of their jersey stretched from tugging all day.

You can absolutely lose people off the ball now with much less effort so the people actually good at it like Steph?

People feel like it’s hate when you point it out but it’s true that you just can’t play that way without these rules.

Players today do put in more defensive effort on average than in the mid 90s going back and they are FAR better prepared so with similar rules teams would be getting absolutely demolished by these defenses. And it started to happen early 2000s. Modern prep, training, and effort with old school rules combined to have teams scoring 39 points at the end of 3 in the playoffs and it just wasn’t acceptable to marketing departments. Nets and Pistons had 34 and 27 at halftime and I bet Stern decided right then to begin the transition.

The response was to rig it towards the offense and worked. Then they did it again. And again. Now young fans think that’s what basketball is…instead of what the nba decided was entertaining.

Its annoying but it is what it is.

[L.Kizzle]

They're adapting to how players play the game IMO.
From street ball, AAU ball. All that has an effect to what is called now. When you think of PGs on the early 90s, only a few were like Rod. Timmy, Kenny Anderson and later on AI. I can't remember Payton, Stockton, Terry Porter, Danny Ainge playing like them.
But a few years later you have Marbury, Francis, Jason Williams. If 8 out of 10 PGs are now playing like that instead of 1 out of 10, you have to follow the 8 ...

[TheGoatest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5pzgfsu1M

[Phoenix]

Any person with half a brain knows while today has more talent, it also easier than ever to inflate numbers due to rule changes. Undeniable truth

It's also easier to 'appear' more talented when the rules let you do more. Rod Strickland is an all-timer as far as handles for any era. I'm sure he'd love to have access to 2k22 dribbling rules.

[j3lademaster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5pzgfsu1MYes, refs are human are missed some travel calls on Michael Jordan.

[insight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5pzgfsu1M


This is not a credible video, the 2nd example of Jordan switching his pivot foot ignores that he starts dribbling.

[Kblaze8855]

Everyone in every era traveled. The point is the league didn’t just change the rules to say what they did wasn’t traveling to encourage it becoming a standard. They didn’t just make a new rule saying you can move your feet before the dribble to keep complaints down and help the scorers. The current league literally responded to violations by making the violation legal.

[Charlie Sheen]

Everyone in every era traveled. The point is the league didn’t just change the rules to say what they did wasn’t traveling to encourage it becoming a standard. They didn’t just make a new rule saying you can move your feet before the dribble to keep complaints down and help the scorers. The current league literally responded to violations by making the violation legal.
While I agree, it stinks for the old guys who played with less freedom... It's a good direction for the game moving forward because you're overlooking this part of the discussion.

Yes, refs are human are missed some travel calls on Michael Jordan.

It moves the letter of the rule closer in alignment to the spirit of the rule. Narrowing the gray area of travels is going to level the playing field because travel calls aren't gonna vary as much from ref to ref. MLB has a similar problem with umpires and their strike zones and they are trying to bring them closer to the mean through rule changes.

[Kblaze8855]

Its a good direction to make commonly missed calls legal moves to remove the reason for complaint?

[StrongLurk]

I cannot stand how players get away with obvious travels and carries recently. Swear it wasn't this bad even 5-6 years ago.

The crazy travels Harden does now on stepbacks, the awful carries from guys like Morant...it's just bullshit honestly. Watering down the integrity of the game even further.

[97 bulls]

I cannot stand how players get away with obvious travels and carries recently. Swear it wasn't this bad even 5-6 years ago.

The crazy travels Harden does now on stepbacks, the awful carries from guys like Morant...it's just bullshit honestly. Watering down the integrity of the game even further.

I see your point. But I honestly don't mind. It does make the game esthetics more pleasant.

I just get frustrated when people say that today's league is better when alot of the "more skilled" argument is due to the fact that players get away with more stuff today.

[GimmeThat]

the idea of a rhythm game really just means peoples thoughts aren't clashing with one another.

[Kblaze8855]

The post referencing it was deleted by the user for some reason so I won’t undelete it but will agree….


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AchingReliableKite-size_restricted.gif




They called Andrew Toney for a palming for that.

Remember it next time you think handles were invented when you started watching. You could rarely even get away with a hesi.

Handles aren’t improved by nearly as much as freedom to perform.

[Charlie Sheen]

Its a good direction to make commonly missed calls legal moves to remove the reason for complaint?

Yes. It brings everyone closer to playing under the same set of rules. The traveling violations called on rod was the standard in his day, but it would be an outlier today. It is good for the game to limit the power of refs to go off script and call those at their discretion. The NBA was never going back to enforcing the rule the way it was called even 20 years ago.

Not arguing the point that it creates even more problems comparing players today to players from a previous era. I agree with that, but I'll give that up for moving in the direction of more consistency in officiating.

[Kblaze8855]

They had that back then. Jerry West got called for palming plenty. Just call it on everyone. It’s consistent. Now they just call it on nobody. It’s not more consistent it’s just lax. Equally consistent going the other way.

Go back before they cared what anyone was entertained by you saw some really strict and consistent calls. And little complaining about them. Hell at the start of the league you got a tech for not physically raising your hand to acknowledge you fouled someone when it was called.

We don’t need that back and maybe not even the tighter rules….but the solution to violations shouldn’t be making the violation legal so you can’t complain.

Where does it stop?

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't know where it stops. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it isn't approaching egregious from what I always grew up knowing the rule to be. We don't disagree on this.

We are at a point where teams have a competitive advantage on the floor based off how much better their analytics is at predicting ref behavior than the other team. Adjusting the rule limits at least this opportunity to game the refs.

[2much_knowledge]

Leagues have always taken steps towards offense. That's what fans want to see. The rules for WRs in the NFL, the MLB lowering the pitchers mound to help hitters, or the rule changes in basketball.

What's insane is the blatant willingness to ignore these facts. Over 200 people have viewed this thread. But very few responses. But these same viewers will then go and make a thread or comment in a thread, talking about how much more talented and skilled and athletic the league is today.

I remember Bob Cousey saying that alot of the assists Magic Johnson was credited with wouldn't have been considered an assist in his time. The term inconvient truth has never been more appropriate.

Spot on. This thread is h.q . So rare in here

[WhiteKyrie]

The rule was 1.5 steps TOWARDS the basket on a move. League did 2 steps. Now? 3 and 4 steps. To the side, backwards or wherever

[Kblaze8855]

If you actually read the amended travel rules where they say to incorporate the gathering of the ball which isn’t completed till both hands are on it or the dribble is illegal to continue….then you get 2 more steps?
this isn’t entirely illegal:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DismalConcernedChipmunk-size_restricted.gif




And I promise you the trainers who work on proper footwork to exploit such things will be doing something just shy of it in the coming years. It’s just a matter of training the refs to accept it doesn’t matter what direction you gather then use your extra steps.

[Xiao Yao You]

If you actually read the amended travel rules where they say to incorporate the gathering of the ball which isn’t completed till both hands are on it or the dribble is illegal to continue….then you get 2 more steps?
this isn’t entirely illegal:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DismalConcernedChipmunk-size_restricted.gif




And I promise you the trainers who work on proper footwork to exploit such things will be doing something just shy of it in the coming years. It’s just a matter of training the refs to accept it doesn’t matter what direction you gather then use your extra steps.

ridiculous

[Xiao Yao You]

more like handball where they have to occasionally dribble

[Kblaze8855]

Just stealing points from the old guys:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamefulWhichIrishwaterspaniel-size_restricted.gif



Travel.

[light]

LOL. The only reason that was called on Strickland was because he wasn't Michael Jordan.

[Kblaze8855]

Rather than make a new topic I’ll post this and ask the question it’s forced discussion of….



https://s1.imgfi.com/images/IMG_5876.gif


Are we just making everything nba legal ok to do in all leagues even though no other level amended it’s rules to allow such foolishness? Youth coaches and trainers are insisting it isn’t a travel because he’s using the gather to cancel the first of 3 steps as they are now trained to do. But they’re training to be in the nba and not playing in it.

All basketball must abide by the rules of its top league now?

[Xiao Yao You]

Just stealing points from the old guys:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamefulWhichIrishwaterspaniel-size_restricted.gif



Travel.

a big reason I always thought he was overrated with all of his hopping. Definitely decades before his time with that shit

[90sgoat]

The NBA has made basketball a different sport and it's diffused through the systems.

Like Strickland up there in the first post, this is how we learned to play basketball, it was 1.5 step, not full 2 steps. The 0.5 was the gather, then 1 step.

And the key here in the rules, was that the step was allowed "in momentum", essentially a way to allow the player to gain control while dribbling. It was not strictly meant for layups or shooting, it is a general rule for picking up the ball.

Anyway, I remember in the early to mid 90s, everyone still played with 1.5 steps and "hand on top" dribbling, then in the late 90s, more and more guys began eurostepping and doing "hand on side" dribbling, which was usually "hand below" dribbling.

I played some streeball in Asia like 10 years ago and it was still mostly old school, pass the ball basketball, like how asians used to play. Then I went back this winter and holee fook, it was like a different world, everyone hesiing and doing stepbacks, the game had completely changed.

I think it's over for us old heads, the game is like it is now. It's a different game, but it is what it is.

My guess is that as the NBA continues to make the less strict, eventually a new org will emerge, with stricter rules. Maybe some of the old heads. It will be like rugby with the two competing rule sets. Unfortunately it seems like FIBA is getting less strict too.

[FultzNationRISE]

Nobody buys the shoes of the guy who passes and moves without the ball.

This is what Nike, Adidas, and the NBA prefer. Basketball being a 1 on 1 magic show.

Not saying I mind one way or the other, it has entertainment value in its own way. But as long as the money follows the flash, thats what basketball will be.

[Kblaze8855]

Nobody buys the shoes of the guy who passes and moves without the ball.

This is what Nike, Adidas, and the NBA prefer. Basketball being a 1 on 1 magic show.

Not saying I mind one way or the other, it has entertainment value in its own way. But as long as the money follows the flash, thats what basketball will be.



I think this issue interests and annoys me so much because I’ve spent a lot of time around people playing the lower levels. The last couple years I have not had to work so I’ve been in practice on the college level. Been hanging around high school games more. A couple friends of the family have really good kids who go to camp and all that. I feel for youth coaches. Trainers both in person and online know the way to get attention is to teach kids the flashy moves of NBA players they know. The problem is the NBA is the only place that changed the rules to make a lot of those moves legal.

so what are you supposed to do when entrusted to teach a kid to play the game? Kids are eight years old learning the proper foot work to get away with what has always been traveling in the NBA because all they do is sit on devices and watch highlights and move breakdowns. They are so ****ing skilled and you don’t wanna dampen their enthusiasm making them play basketball from 1978. The problem is not even one in 1000 of these people are going to the NBA where these moves might be legal. So is it wrong to teach them the game they are more likely to need?

But on the other hand, lower levels are taking the NBA’s lead, and simply not calling their own rules. At that point is a youth coach preaching fundamentals ignoring his responsibility to help these kids prosper in the game of the real world? It’s almost like if the NFL decided pass rushers are too athletic so offensive lineman can hold for no more than two seconds now. College and below you can’t hold so a coach should teach a young player not to hold right? But once it starts to filter down through the ranks and high school refs let you hold am I doing a disservice and setting my kids up to fail If I don’t also encourage them to hold? Are we trying to help the kids or be technically correct?

If you’re trying to help them, and the world is agreeing you can travel and carry is teaching and encouraging traveling and carrying just the act of a good coach?

Long story short if the refs let you do it should you teach kids to cheat? And if you don’t aren’t you just setting them up to fail when the other side masters cheating? Is our stubborn attachment to the so-called right way to play more important than kids learning how to play the game they are allowed to play? No right? Knowing that is it time we all just embrace whatever previously illegal tactics people need to get the ball in the basket?

Who is the victim other than our feelings?

[Phoenix]

Serious question, is Euroleague worth getting into if I want to watch a so-called 'purer' game? Because the NBA feels like it's starting to become the WWF( I refuse to call it WWE).

[tpols]

Just stealing points from the old guys:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ShamefulWhichIrishwaterspaniel-size_restricted.gif



Travel.

If that's a travel than Giannis whole career is invalidated. Today they do that plus an extra step. While flopping on contact they create with the euro jumping into defenders sideways and acting like they got hit.

[90sgoat]

Serious question, is Euroleague worth getting into if I want to watch a so-called 'purer' game? Because the NBA feels like it's starting to become the WWF( I refuse to call it WWE).

In my limited experience, yes, for sure, but you need to find a stream with a knowledgeable english language crew, because games are not produced anywhere near as dramatic as the NBA and with the more packed court and bigger focus on strategy, the game can seem a bit repetetive and ugly sometimes.

It can be quite similar to early 00s NBA, in that these teams really want to win and often need to win, to make enough money, so games are tactical and physical, which sounds great, but can also be too much.

That's where a good presenter crew helps, who can explain the teams, their main players, their coach, their style, their culture and so on. That helps you understand what is a stake, because it's not like in the NBA, where you tune on and you get some fancy dribbles and some dunks always.

I suppose it's more like college, in that it's not purely the entertainment, but the experience, the meaning.

I haven't watched in years, but I've been thinking like you. One team I followed back in the day was Barcelona, so I was thinking to start following them again. They're a really good team with a big budget and the Barcelona teams are owned by the same group, so soccer, football and handball, all part of the deal.

Let me know if you sign up, we can create a running thread for FIBA games.

[Xiao Yao You]

In my limited experience, yes, for sure, but you need to find a stream with a knowledgeable english language crew, because games are not produced anywhere near as dramatic as the NBA and with the more packed court and bigger focus on strategy, the game can seem a bit repetetive and ugly sometimes.

It can be quite similar to early 00s NBA, in that these teams really want to win and often need to win, to make enough money, so games are tactical and physical, which sounds great, but can also be too much.

That's where a good presenter crew helps, who can explain the teams, their main players, their coach, their style, their culture and so on. That helps you understand what is a stake, because it's not like in the NBA, where you tune on and you get some fancy dribbles and some dunks always.

I suppose it's more like college, in that it's not purely the entertainment, but the experience, the meaning.

I haven't watched in years, but I've been thinking like you. One team I followed back in the day was Barcelona, so I was thinking to start following them again. They're a really good team with a big budget and the Barcelona teams are owned by the same group, so soccer, football and handball, all part of the deal.

Let me know if you sign up, we can create a running thread for FIBA games.

Who needs announcers? I watched NBA and CBA in China without English announcers

[Phoenix]

In my limited experience, yes, for sure, but you need to find a stream with a knowledgeable english language crew, because games are not produced anywhere near as dramatic as the NBA and with the more packed court and bigger focus on strategy, the game can seem a bit repetetive and ugly sometimes.

It can be quite similar to early 00s NBA, in that these teams really want to win and often need to win, to make enough money, so games are tactical and physical, which sounds great, but can also be too much.

That's where a good presenter crew helps, who can explain the teams, their main players, their coach, their style, their culture and so on. That helps you understand what is a stake, because it's not like in the NBA, where you tune on and you get some fancy dribbles and some dunks always.

I suppose it's more like college, in that it's not purely the entertainment, but the experience, the meaning.

I haven't watched in years, but I've been thinking like you. One team I followed back in the day was Barcelona, so I was thinking to start following them again. They're a really good team with a big budget and the Barcelona teams are owned by the same group, so soccer, football and handball, all part of the deal.

Let me know if you sign up, we can create a running thread for FIBA games.

Will do, I'll be on the look-out for some good streaming links.

[90sgoat]

Who needs announcers? I watched NBA and CBA in China without English announcers

Like I said, the NBA is entertainment, the Euroleague is competition.

Just my experience, I really enjoyed FIBA and Euroleague with knowledgeable announcers and less when it wasn't.