Bob Cousy responds to JJ Reddick

[j3lademaster]

https://streamable.com/26cb6s

It's in response to JJ's "he(Cousy) was guarded by firemen and plumbers" comment from a few weeks ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2DzEv5aUEg

When I originally heard this I agreed with JJ, and I get he could have been more respectful about it, but personally I like listening to someone who isn't constantly walking on eggshells like Stephen A who has to spend 30 seconds talking someone up before he criticizes them.

[1987_Lakers]

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

cant take anyone seriously saying Elgin Baylor is the best SF ever

[RRR3]

cant take anyone seriously saying Elgin Baylor is the best SF ever
Fr, Cous OD'ing on nostalgia.

[plowking]

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif


We can criticise how goofy and unrefined the game looked back then, but even now you see older school guys have a dorky looking game in the gym that absolutely destroy people.

I remember playing at a local rec league here in Australia, and one goofy looking 45 year old dude knocked down 7 threes in a half, had the worst looking dribble you'd seen, and just looked flat out clumsy. Someone at half time proceeds to tell me he is only 8 years removed from playing pro ball here in Australia... same league Lamelo and a few other NBA cats played in.

Basically, you're a product of your era/environment. Regardless of the time, they'd be effective.

[Wally450]

Both players couldn't play in each others eras IMO.

[SATAN]

firemen and perhaps plumbers usually seem more athletic than grocery baggers. :confusedshrug:

[dankok8]

Holy shit.. That's very disrespectful by J.J. Redick.

[TheGoatest]

firemen and perhaps plumbers usually seem more athletic than grocery baggers. :confusedshrug:

https://www.sportscasting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/John-Starks.jpg

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

cant take anyone seriously saying Elgin Baylor is the best SF ever
well, considering you've probably only watched NBA players from the past decade, it doesn't matter what you take serious.

But, if we remove tweener F's like LeBron and KD (which I hate to do, but hey, "positionless basketball" era), there's pretty much just Bird and Dr. J as definitive competition to Baylor. I'll give you Bird being the #1 SF. But then Baylor is easily in the convo as 2nd best behind Bird. And if you're easily considered #2, then it's not unreasonable for someone to think you are #1.

[Shogon]

We can criticise how goofy and unrefined the game looked back then, but even now you see older school guys have a dorky looking game in the gym that absolutely destroy people.

I remember playing at a local rec league here in Australia, and one goofy looking 45 year old dude knocked down 7 threes in a half, had the worst looking dribble you'd seen, and just looked flat out clumsy. Someone at half time proceeds to tell me he is only 8 years removed from playing pro ball here in Australia... same league Lamelo and a few other NBA cats played in.

Basically, you're a product of your era/environment. Regardless of the time, they'd be effective.

Not only that but the game and best dribblers would look something closer to this than they do now if carrying the ball was something that was actually still whistled.

As I believe it was kblaze that pointed out, carrying has been steadily increasing gradually over time until we've gotten where we are now.

It has culminated with where Ja Morant is a player, who essentially relies on shamelessly carrying the ball in conjunction with his insane athleticism... to be the player he is today. He's not the only one doing it, but he's arguably the worst ever with it. And it just keeps getting worse.

If guys had to absolutely keep their hand on top of the ball at all times, which they are supposed to do, dribblers would look closer to the gif in the first response to the OP.

[ArbitraryWater]

well, considering you've probably only watched NBA players from the past decade, it doesn't matter what you take serious.

But, if we remove tweener F's like LeBron and KD (which I hate to do, but hey, "positionless basketball" era), there's pretty much just Bird and Dr. J as definitive competition to Baylor. I'll give you Bird being the #1 SF. But then Baylor is easily in the convo as 2nd best behind Bird. And if you're easily considered #2, then it's not unreasonable for someone to think you are #1.


thats a lot of stretching and mental gymnastics there to give it the reasonable take label, lmao.

[Bronbron23]

I like JJ but he wrong on this one. He has no idea how good Cousy would be in this era with hindsight. Everyone talks about these convos without taking hindsight into account.

[CelticBaller]

I seen Cousy highlights, they're actually really good if you consider that they weren't allowed to carry or travel as much as players can nowadays

[hold this L]

When I originally heard this I agreed with JJ, and I get he could have been more respectful about it, but personally I like listening to someone who isn't constantly walking on eggshells like Stephen A who has to spend 30 seconds talking someone up before he criticizes them.

I think he says that more for players that played the game. I would be with you but he tows the line big time when it comes to talking about current players that he knows / is friends with.

[GimmeThat]

I seen Cousy highlights, they're actually really good if you consider that they weren't allowed to carry or travel as much as players can nowadays

the era where hockey assists hadn't been invented. SG and SF is a very blurred concept given that, but it was also probably given that you played as close to the basket as much as your size allows.

of course, all prior to the idea of air space.

[GimmeThat]

I think he says that more for players that played the game. I would be with you but he tows the line big time when it comes to talking about current players that he knows / is friends with.

Stephen A is pretty much known for trying to establish what relationship he has with you, a cringe in its own right, then either be a ******ger, or verbally assaults them as both quotes implied.

it's always personal with Stephen A. who like 3ba11, tries to hold onto the past, and fails to embrace the present.

[8Ball]

21 year old Cousy wouldn't even be drafted in today's game.

[Bronbron23]

21 year old Cousy wouldn't even be drafted in today's game.

How in the hell do u know? It's not like there isn't basic white dudes around his size in the league. Shit Payton Prichard is playing on the best team in the east right now. If he can play 15 min a game for one of the best teams in the league I'm sure Cousy with hindsight would be just fine

[1987_Lakers]

How in the hell do u know? It's not like there isn't basic white dudes around his size in the league. Shit Payton Prichard is playing on the best team in the east right now. If he can play 15 min a game for one of the best teams in the league I'm sure Cousy with hindsight would be just fine

He couldn't shoot, was a below average athlete, & couldn't play defense. He would suck today.

Let's give Cousy his respect, he changed the PG position, probably the first playmaking guard. But this is a dude who peaked in the mid 50's, almost 70 years ago, 95-98% of players back then wouldn't make the NBA today. It's pretty damn obvious.

[SouBeachTalents]

well, considering you've probably only watched NBA players from the past decade, it doesn't matter what you take serious.

But, if we remove tweener F's like LeBron and KD (which I hate to do, but hey, "positionless basketball" era), there's pretty much just Bird and Dr. J as definitive competition to Baylor. I'll give you Bird being the #1 SF. But then Baylor is easily in the convo as 2nd best behind Bird. And if you're easily considered #2, then it's not unreasonable for someone to think you are #1.
What kinda nonsense is this :lol Sorry, we don't get to remove LeBron & KD from the discussion for that bogus reason, then keep Bird who was playing PF early in his career.

Dr. J would get consensus consideration for being ranked ahead of Baylor, and you're crazy if you don't think Havlicek at minimum meets "definitive competition".

[SouBeachTalents]

And Chris "Mad Dog" Russo was wrong on several points in this video, or at least unintentionally disingenuous. He didn't know how the OKC Game 5 in 2014 unfolded, believing CP3 missed FT's at the end of the game when he never even attempted one, and didn't know which game CP3 shat the bed in the Finals, it was Game 4, not Game 5.

As for his Bob Cousy point, he made All-NBA First Team in Oscar & West's rookie year, where Oscar also made the First Team and West wasn't even All-NBA. Once the two of them became All-NBA players, Cousy never made the All-NBA First Team again. He also legitimately didn't even know if CP3 ever made the All-NBA First Team :lol

I know Mad Dog is a sports broadcasting icon due to his time with Mike Francesa, but it's a really bad look when he just flatly doesn't know what he's talking about. I would trust JJ Redick's NBA opinion far more than his.

[Gohan]

Jj reddick is retarded

[Bronbron23]

He couldn't shoot, was a below average athlete, & couldn't play defense. He would suck today.

Let's give Cousy his respect, he changed the PG position, probably the first playmaking guard. But this is a dude who peaked in the mid 50's, almost 70 years ago, 95-98% of players back then wouldn't make the NBA today. It's pretty damn obvious.

He couldn't shoot? He played forever ago in a different era. I swear people on this forum are retarded. Do you think players now in the 50's would shoot this way without hindsight? Of course they wouldn't. You guys talk about this shit like it's a back to the future scenario.

[GimmeThat]

He couldn't shoot? He played forever ago in a different era. I swear people on this forum are retarded. Do you think players now in the 50's would shoot this way without hindsight? Of course they wouldn't. You guys talk about this shit like it's a back to the future scenario.

based on the back to the future scenario, people from the 50's still don't know how to use a smart phone.

[dankok8]

The time machine argument is dumb. Let Cousy grow up in this era with modern training, nutrition, wearing proper shoes and playing under modern rules... Great players would be great in any era. And you can only judge someone for what they did in THEIR ERA. Cousy won an MVP and was the floor general for the most dominant dynasty in pro sports. Led the league in assists 8 times. I don't think Cousy is definitely better than CP3 but he may have a greater legacy. At least it's debatable.

[1987_Lakers]

He couldn't shoot? He played forever ago in a different era. I swear people on this forum are retarded. Do you think players now in the 50's would shoot this way without hindsight? Of course they wouldn't. You guys talk about this shit like it's a back to the future scenario.

You said he would be just fine today. What benefit would Cousy bring to a team today if he couldn't shoot & play defense?

Teams would feast on him.

[SATAN]

Imagine Cousy trying to guard LeBron James. :oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

You said he would be just fine today. What benefit would Cousy bring to a team today if he couldn't shoot & play defense?

Teams would feast on him.

He'd write a pretty good script I'd imagine.

[SATAN]

The time machine argument is dumb. Let Cousy grow up in this era with modern training, nutrition, wearing proper shoes and playing under modern rules... Great players would be great in any era. And you can only judge someone for what they did in THEIR ERA. Cousy won an MVP and was the floor general for the most dominant dynasty in pro sports. Led the league in assists 8 times. I don't think Cousy is definitely better than CP3 but he may have a greater legacy. At least it's debatable.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KLP4Xd7HAr4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

He couldn't shoot? He played forever ago in a different era. I swear people on this forum are retarded. Do you think players now in the 50's would shoot this way without hindsight? Of course they wouldn't. You guys talk about this shit like it's a back to the future scenario.

He looks like he developed a shot over the years. In his final game he was hitting shots. Imagine him being able to palm and travel with the ball though!

[RRR3]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KLP4Xd7HAr4/maxresdefault.jpg
Campazzo would average like 35/20 in the sixties lmao.

[Phoenix]

We can criticise how goofy and unrefined the game looked back then, but even now you see older school guys have a dorky looking game in the gym that absolutely destroy people.

I remember playing at a local rec league here in Australia, and one goofy looking 45 year old dude knocked down 7 threes in a half, had the worst looking dribble you'd seen, and just looked flat out clumsy. Someone at half time proceeds to tell me he is only 8 years removed from playing pro ball here in Australia... same league Lamelo and a few other NBA cats played in.

Basically, you're a product of your era/environment. Regardless of the time, they'd be effective.

Lol I had that happen to me in college once. I'm a solid 6'2, reasonably athletic back then....was playing against this fat, balding white guy who couldn't have been more than 5'8 and moved like a slug going uphill in winter. This dude would just throw up these WTF skyhooks from like the free throw line. After the first 3 went in consecutively I was like :biggums:

Dude was uncoordinated as could be, couldn't dribble or drive past a lamp post, but would just throw up the ugliest shots and swishing em like nothing.

[Patrick Chewing]

Cousy still sharp as a tack at 93.


What these younger generation people fail to realize is that the NBA players of yesteryear were the best athletes on the planet back then as they are today in 2022. So the notion that they were plumbers and firemen is silly.

[ShawkFactory]

Cousy still sharp as a tack at 93.


What these younger generation people fail to realize is that the NBA players of yesteryear were the best athletes on the planet back then as they are today in 2022. So the notion that they were plumbers and firemen is silly.

Umm..

[GimmeThat]

Umm..

similar to when Stephen A. said, had the Warriors lost to the Grizzlies, it'd have been the lack of physicality, not mentality. As if their mind shrinks their physicality.

[Bronbron23]

based on the back to the future scenario, people from the 50's still don't know how to use a smart phone.

:oldlol: that's how dumb these guys sound.

[Bronbron23]

The time machine argument is dumb. Let Cousy grow up in this era with modern training, nutrition, wearing proper shoes and playing under modern rules... Great players would be great in any era. And you can only judge someone for what they did in THEIR ERA. Cousy won an MVP and was the floor general for the most dominant dynasty in pro sports. Led the league in assists 8 times. I don't think Cousy is definitely better than CP3 but he may have a greater legacy. At least it's debatable.

We'll at least there's some sign of intelligence in this thread.

[Bronbron23]

You said he would be just fine today. What benefit would Cousy bring to a team today if he couldn't shoot & play defense?

Teams would feast on him.

Yeah he would because he'd have 70 years of hindsight. If we're talking a time travel scenario then yeah sure he'd get worked.

[Patrick Chewing]

Umm..

What's the problem? Who were the best athletes in the 50's and 60's??

[Bronbron23]

He looks like he developed a shot over the years. In his final game he was hitting shots. Imagine him being able to palm and travel with the ball though!

Yeah good point. Rules were by the book back then.

[Bronbron23]

Campazzo would average like 35/20 in the sixties lmao.

With hindsight sure. He'd also be way better at using a computers lol. Holy shit u guys are dumb.

[Champ]

Someone said Cousy couldn't shoot???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gDLsZlLEPw

[8Ball]

How in the hell do u know? It's not like there isn't basic white dudes around his size in the league. Shit Payton Prichard is playing on the best team in the east right now. If he can play 15 min a game for one of the best teams in the league I'm sure Cousy with hindsight would be just fine

He is barely 6 feet.
Can't play defense in modern nba because he isn't fast enough.
Cant shoot and is not athletic.

That is a death sentence for any draft.

He'd have problems in college let alone nba.

[GimmeThat]

What's the problem? Who were the best athletes in the 50's and 60's??

I don't have a fortune 500 list of those who survived from that era. But that'd probably be it.

[meat]

Of course he could shoot. Nobody shot good back then. The arenas were dim, the floors were crappy, the ball was wonky. Nothing was standardized. The Lakers court wasn't even regulation size. Mikan, the greatest center of the era, barely shot 40%.

[ShawkFactory]

What's the problem? Who were the best athletes in the 50's and 60's??

I don’t know names. But many of them weren’t playing in the NBA.

[meat]

I don’t know names. But many of them weren’t playing in the NBA.

Wilt comes to mind. Mickey Mantle. Pele. That's a 20 year span. Kind hard to name a bunch of names.

[Bronbron23]

He is barely 6 feet.
Can't play defense in modern nba because he isn't fast enough.
Cant shoot and is not athletic.

That is a death sentence for any draft.

He'd have problems in college let alone nba.

Again there's a white dude same size and athleticism in the east NBA conference finals as we speak. Jalen Brunson is in the west final and while he isn't it white he isn't any taller than Cousy and he be isn't crazy athletic either. Sure he can shoot but Cousy shooting was a product of his era. Again comparing NBA 50's shooting to now is retarded as hell for reasons all ready given.

[Bronbron23]

This dumb shit is like saying Jesse owens couldn't compete with current sprinters because he ran in the mid 10's and sprinters now run sub 10. Are u people really this stupid?

[ShawkFactory]

Wilt comes to mind. Mickey Mantle. Pele. That's a 20 year span. Kind hard to name a bunch of names.

There's always outliers. The idea I believe he was proposing is that the entire pool of players in the NBA in the 50s were the best athletes in the world. Which is preposterous.

[tpols]

Imagine Cousy trying to guard LeBron James. :oldlol:

JJ Barea is even smaller than cousy and handled it quite well.

[Charlie Sheen]

And Chris "Mad Dog" Russo was wrong on several points in this video, or at least unintentionally disingenuous. He didn't know how the OKC Game 5 in 2014 unfolded, believing CP3 missed FT's at the end of the game when he never even attempted one, and didn't know which game CP3 shat the bed in the Finals, it was Game 4, not Game 5.

As for his Bob Cousy point, he made All-NBA First Team in Oscar & West's rookie year, where Oscar also made the First Team and West wasn't even All-NBA. Once the two of them became All-NBA players, Cousy never made the All-NBA First Team again. He also legitimately didn't even know if CP3 ever made the All-NBA First Team :lol

I know Mad Dog is a sports broadcasting icon due to his time with Mike Francesa, but it's a really bad look when he just flatly doesn't know what he's talking about. I would trust JJ Redick's NBA opinion far more than his.

This is a really good post. Jj lost his cool because Russo was disingenuous with every point he made. I would be shocked if Jj actually held that view of Cousy when he wasn't caught up in an argument with a professional troll. Giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.

[Patrick Chewing]

There's always outliers. The idea I believe he was proposing is that the entire pool of players in the NBA in the 50s were the best athletes in the world. Which is preposterous.

What makes that preposterous? Because they didn't look like Lebron. No one looked like Lebron back then.

[ShawkFactory]

What makes that preposterous? Because they didn't look like Lebron. No one looked like Lebron back then.

No one looks like Lebron now. That's not what I'm talking out.

Again..the ENTIRE pool of NBA players were less athletic then than they are now. Or even after the merger. This isn't a hot take.

[Bronbron23]

There's always outliers. The idea I believe he was proposing is that the entire pool of players in the NBA in the 50s were the best athletes in the world. Which is preposterous.

While this is true there's no way of knowing who would still be a star in this era from then. The argument is that players are too athletic but it's not like only athletic players do well. If cp3 and Brunson can have success despite their size and athleticism there's no reason Cousy couldn't. We'll obviously never know so all we can go by is what we do know.

[ShawkFactory]

While this is true there's no way of knowing who would still be a star in this era from then. The argument is that players are too athletic but it's not like only athletic players do well. If cp3 and Brunson can have success despite their size and athleticism there's no reason Cousy couldn't. We'll obviously never know so all we can go by is what we do know.

I'm wasn't making the argument that Cousy couldn't play today or that JJ Redick or Tyrus Thomas would dominate the 50s-60s.

[Patrick Chewing]

No one looks like Lebron now. That's not what I'm talking out.

Again..the ENTIRE pool of NBA players were less athletic then than they are now. Or even after the merger. This isn't a hot take.

I'm not comparing them to the NBA players of today. I hope that's not what you think I was referring to cause that's not what I said in the OP. NBA players of the 50's and 60's were some of the best athletes of that era. So to say that they were plumbers and firemen is incorrect because everyone back in the 50's and 60's would have been inferior athletically to these NBA players.

[warriorfan]

https://i0.wp.com/ourweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/nate-thurmond.jpg?fit=1200%2C1199&ssl=1

[ShawkFactory]

I'm not comparing them to the NBA players of today. I hope that's not what you think I was referring to cause that's not what I said in the OP. NBA players of the 50's and 60's were some of the best athletes of that era. So to say that they were plumbers and firemen is incorrect because everyone back in the 50's and 60's would have been inferior athletically to these NBA players.

Just had to rule that line of thinking out.

So wait..you think that human beings in general evolved that much from 1958 to say, 1980?

[warriorfan]

Just had to rule that line of thinking out.

So wait..you think that human beings in general evolved that much from 1958 to say, 1980?

Of course the notion that Humans have drastically evolved in the past 50+ years is preposterous.

The real argument can be made is that with the global popularity of the NBA now, there is a much bigger pool of potential players to select from, which will increase competition when selecting the most athletic players.

Another thing to realize though is the league was a lot smaller back then. There wasn’t nearly as many roster spots with an 8 team league. So even though the pool of players was smaller to chose from back then, the amount of players who made the league was smaller too, so this acted as increased competition for selecting the most athletic players as well.

[meat]

Just had to rule that line of thinking out.

So wait..you think that human beings in general evolved that much from 1958 to say, 1980?

Medicine, science, sports training and drugs evolved. And the game itself. The NBA was 4 years old when Cousy came around

[Bronbron23]

Medicine, science, sports training and drugs evolved. And the game itself. The NBA was 4 years old when Cousy came around

This is true but Cousy would have all the benefits of this if he played now. Vice versa someone from this era who played when Cousy would have non of those benefits. These conversations for some weird reason are had without this hindsight in mind.

[meat]

This is true but Cousy would have all the benefits of this if he played now. Vice versa someone from this era who played when Cousy would have non of those benefits. These conversations for some weird reason are had without this hindsight in mind.

I think I'm agreeing with you! There's no way to ever know. It's a stupid argument. :cheers:

[tpols]

As most have pointed out the main thing that evolved was the rules. John Stockton was the same size as bob cousy. He might have actually weighed less. But he wasn't forced by the rules to dribble like a square. He was allowed to have a modern handle.

If you look at that one dunk MJ did on Ewing where he pulled a hesi spin move before setting up the dunk... Jordan palmed the ball as much as anybody ever to set that hesi up and get the blow by.

So the point is its all about the rules. John Stockton is the all time assist and steals leader and he was the same size and posses the same athleticism as bob cousy. They played under vastly different rules. That's the only difference. And Stockton never won an MVP.

Bran stans are pathetic because they think just because a guy is small and white he must suck. Or if he lacks athleticism and is white he'd never make it today. Meanwhile an old ass Dirk and Jason Terry took a steaming dump on a Heat team that had 10x their athleticism. You would think they'd have learned their lesson....

[GimmeThat]

Bran stans are pathetic because they think just because a guy is small and white he must suck. Or if he lacks athleticism and is white he'd never make it today. Meanwhile an old ass Dirk and Jason Terry took a steaming dump on a Heat team that had 10x their athleticism. You would think they'd have learned their lesson....

I feel like you're more talking about the likes of Jeanie Buss, Magic Johnson, and Phil Jackson co. who've actually dumped the Lebron brand.

It's probably upsetting because Westbrook is a branch off the Lebron brand, same way Converse is off of Nike. So they come off as Bran stan, but I'm guessing that's only because there are orders not to trade both Westbrook AND Lebron.

if that was an option, they'd pulled the trigger, just see how Gasol left town, and they didn't retain any other star alongside Kobe.

[AlternativeAcc.]

As most have pointed out the main thing that evolved was the rules. John Stockton was the same size as bob cousy. He might have actually weighed less. But he wasn't forced by the rules to dribble like a square. He was allowed to have a modern handle.

If you look at that one dunk MJ did on Ewing where he pulled a hesi spin move before setting up the dunk... Jordan palmed the ball as much as anybody ever to set that hesi up and get the blow by.

So the point is its all about the rules. John Stockton is the all time assist and steals leader and he was the same size and posses the same athleticism as bob cousy. They played under vastly different rules. That's the only difference. And Stockton never won an MVP.

Bran stans are pathetic because they think just because a guy is small and white he must suck. Or if he lacks athleticism and is white he'd never make it today. Meanwhile an old ass Dirk and Jason Terry took a steaming dump on a Heat team that had 10x their athleticism. You would think they'd have learned their lesson....

So Dirk at 33 is old as hell but 37 yo Bron isn't?

LeBron fans appreciate the white boys. Remember dellavedova? He's out of the league now but he made Curry his bitch in the NBA finals. That's the year Curry lost FMVP to a role player and got less votes than LeBron despite LeBron being on the losing team.

We appreciate the white boys, like Kevin Love who locked curry down in 2016 game 7. Remember that airball curry threw up trying to tie the game? :roll:

[ShawkFactory]

Of course the notion that Humans have drastically evolved in the past 50+ years is preposterous.

The real argument can be made is that with the global popularity of the NBA now, there is a much bigger pool of potential players to select from, which will increase competition when selecting the most athletic players.

Another thing to realize though is the league was a lot smaller back then. There wasn’t nearly as many roster spots with an 8 team league. So even though the pool of players was smaller to chose from back then, the amount of players who made the league was smaller too, so this acted as increased competition for selecting the most athletic players as well.

That doesn’t even come close to making up for the drastically larger talent pool though.

[Patrick Chewing]

Just had to rule that line of thinking out.

So wait..you think that human beings in general evolved that much from 1958 to say, 1980?

Of course! Just look at the athletes of today. It's primarily the nutrition and science that has evolved, but the strength and conditioning has evolved also.

[ShawkFactory]

Of course! Just look at the athletes of today. It's primarily the nutrition and science that has evolved, but the strength and conditioning has evolved also.

I’m not even talking about today. You think from 1955 to 1970 that humans evolved that much?

You’re a fool if you don’t give respect to guys like Milan and Cousy for increasing popularity for the league. Who knows where it would be without that. But it doesn’t go much beyond that to me.

Not that they’d be bad in any era but it certainly would be different.

[iamgine]

In this kind of comparison, we have to take the athletes for what they are at the time. We can't just add something out of thin air and not take out something else. Or else soon we'll have Hakeem shooting threes at high efficiency.

[Bronbron23]

I think I'm agreeing with you! There's no way to ever know. It's a stupid argument. :cheers:

:cheers:

[GimmeThat]

In this kind of comparison, we have to take the athletes for what they are at the time. We can't just add something out of thin air and not take out something else. Or else soon we'll have Hakeem shooting threes at high efficiency.

energy creates life, but we shouldn't create energy by destroying life, or the energy in us, is no longer life.

[Patrick Chewing]

I’m not even talking about today. You think from 1955 to 1970 that humans evolved that much?

You’re a fool if you don’t give respect to guys like Milan and Cousy for increasing popularity for the league. Who knows where it would be without that. But it doesn’t go much beyond that to me.

Not that they’d be bad in any era but it certainly would be different.

So what are you disagreeing with me here? Now you're talking about popularity which is a completely different discussion. I'm talking about athleticism. In the 50's and 60's, professional athletes were the standard for peak athleticism at the time. Just like the athletes of today are the standard. We should not be comparing both eras. I'll reiterate, the notion that a guy like Bob Cousy wasn't athletic is silly. For that time period, he was. More than the average man living in America at the time.

[ShawkFactory]

So what are you disagreeing with me here? Now you're talking about popularity which is a completely different discussion. I'm talking about athleticism. In the 50's and 60's, professional athletes were the standard for peak athleticism at the time. Just like the athletes of today are the standard. We should not be comparing both eras. I'll reiterate, the notion that a guy like Bob Cousy wasn't athletic is silly. For that time period, he was. More than the average man living in America at the time.

The popularity ties into it. An increase in popularity caused an increase in the amount of people that played the sport.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Why are these insufferable Duke f#cks given access to national airwaves?

[warriorfan]

That doesn’t even come close to making up for the drastically larger talent pool though.

If you are a big man you will be seeing a whole lot of Wilt and Russell in an 8 team league. A quarter of the league has some of the most athletic big men to ever play.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Cousy sounds a bit delusional, but I get where he's coming from.

Reddick is a clown. I mean damn... Have a little respect for the generation that paved the way.

[HoopsNY]

He couldn't shoot, was a below average athlete, & couldn't play defense. He would suck today.

Let's give Cousy his respect, he changed the PG position, probably the first playmaking guard. But this is a dude who peaked in the mid 50's, almost 70 years ago, 95-98% of players back then wouldn't make the NBA today. It's pretty damn obvious.

You're way smarter than this. You can't stack the deck with everything favoring today's stars and not give Cousy any benefit of the doubt if he were to play in this era.

When you subtract all of what players today have, from equipment, supplements, technology, coaching, conditioning, not to mention non-existent dribbling rules, what are they left with?

I'm not one to think that Cousy would be some perennial superstar in this era, but if he was considered a formidable opponent against Jerry West, someone who everyone considers to be top 15, then surely he would be successful given the support systems and structures that modern players have.

[HoopsNY]

And Chris "Mad Dog" Russo was wrong on several points in this video, or at least unintentionally disingenuous. He didn't know how the OKC Game 5 in 2014 unfolded, believing CP3 missed FT's at the end of the game when he never even attempted one, and didn't know which game CP3 shat the bed in the Finals, it was Game 4, not Game 5.

As for his Bob Cousy point, he made All-NBA First Team in Oscar & West's rookie year, where Oscar also made the First Team and West wasn't even All-NBA. Once the two of them became All-NBA players, Cousy never made the All-NBA First Team again. He also legitimately didn't even know if CP3 ever made the All-NBA First Team :lol

I know Mad Dog is a sports broadcasting icon due to his time with Mike Francesa, but it's a really bad look when he just flatly doesn't know what he's talking about. I would trust JJ Redick's NBA opinion far more than his.

Cousy was All-NBA 2nd Team in the years you're mentioning, which are also his final 2 seasons. Not to mention, he was 32 and 33. Keep in mind, players then didn't have modern medicine, conditioning, or diets like they do now. So you have to consider that when discussing this subject.

Granted, Russo is insane if he thinks Cousy > CP3. It just isn't true. But Reddick is also off on his analysis because he's conveniently ignoring context.

[meat]

13 allstars in 13 seasons. not bad. maybe he'd be Stockton, maybe he'd be Bobby Hurley. who f'in cares

[RogueBorg]

https://streamable.com/26cb6s

It's in response to JJ's "he(Cousy) was guarded by firemen and plumbers" comment from a few weeks ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2DzEv5aUEg

When I originally heard this I agreed with JJ, and I get he could have been more respectful about it, but personally I like listening to someone who isn't constantly walking on eggshells like Stephen A who has to spend 30 seconds talking someone up before he criticizes them.

You can't compare players from one era to another. Take J.J. Redick for example. If you were to compare video of Redick to Bob Cousy, Redick probably looks like a better player. But compared to his contemporaries, Redick was never even close to ever being the best SG in the NBA while Bob Cousy for a time was the best PG in the NBA. Redick will never sniff the Hall of Fame because he gets compared to players from his era. Players from later eras learn from players in earlier eras and progress.

[TheMan]

firemen and perhaps plumbers usually seem more athletic than grocery baggers. :confusedshrug:

Trinket street vendors FTW

[Carbine]

Cousy was All-NBA 2nd Team in the years you're mentioning, which are also his final 2 seasons. Not to mention, he was 32 and 33. Keep in mind, players then didn't have modern medicine, conditioning, or diets like they do now. So you have to consider that when discussing this subject.

Granted, Russo is insane if he thinks Cousy > CP3. It just isn't true. But Reddick is also off on his analysis because he's conveniently ignoring context.


Why is it insane to think Cousy was greater than CP3?

[LeGoat4Life]

https://c.tenor.com/H0foamBzrn4AAAAC/bob-cousy-crossover.gif

Slick moves.

Definitely better than modern players

Players like Lebron can’t even dribble correctly

[ShawkFactory]

If you are a big man you will be seeing a whole lot of Wilt and Russell in an 8 team league. A quarter of the league has some of the most athletic big men to ever play.

Sure. And 3 quarters of league had 6th men who wouldn’t be on a team in another era.

Outliers =\= norms