Curry so far in the 4th this PS: 1st in points, 33rd in minutes

[hold this L]

https://twitter.com/joeylinn_/status/1527855866271019008



Steph Curry’s 4th quarter ranks this postseason:

Points: 1st
Minutes: 33rd

He’s doing it on 57/44/90 splits.

Have a good night yall.

https://c.tenor.com/211IRWxCW0AAAAAd/stephen-curry.gif

[warriorfan]

Chef Dingo

The Closer

[tontoz]

Can't wait to see how the haters spin this.

[Stephonit]

Curry getting carried all these years by Green with a -19 and Klay with a -9.

[nayte]

While curry is balling let's talk about dudes in the playoffs in right now..oh wait. Yep curry is balling

[DMAVS41]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.

[tontoz]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.


On this board it is mostly butthurt LeBron stans hating on him.

[Stephonit]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.

You're wrong. He wouldn't be borderline, he'd be well inside.

They scared of him. Unlike the inferior player, Curry is a legit contender for greatest player of all-time. Ever since the unanimous MVP season they've done everything they can to minimize Steph's achievements ignoring them, attributing them to someone else, or what not. But they cannot entirely pretend he's not there because he's the draw.

[DMAVS41]

You're wrong. He wouldn't be borderline, he'd be well inside.

They scared of him. Unlike the inferior player, Curry is a legit contender for greatest player of all-time. Ever since the unanimous MVP season they've done everything they can to minimize Steph's achievements ignoring them, attributing them to someone else, or what not. But they cannot entirely pretend he's not there because he's the draw.

He is not a contender for the GOAT, but I wouldn't argue if someone had him top 10 if he plays great and wins the title this year.

[Shogon]

He is not a contender for the GOAT, but I wouldn't argue if someone had him top 10 if he plays great and wins the title this year.

He is absolutely a contender for the GOAT offensive player and I would argue that he is, though it is unknowable. Nobody in league history has distorted the opposing team's defense like Curry... nobody. Not even prime Shaq.

[DMAVS41]

He is absolutely a contender for the GOAT offensive player and I would argue that he is, though it is unknowable. Nobody in league history has distorted the opposing team's defense like Curry... nobody. Not even prime Shaq.

The post I responded to didn't say "offensive GOAT"...he said GOAT...and Curry is not in that conversation. Solely talking offense? Yes...he's up there in that conversation for sure.

[Stephonit]

He is not a contender for the GOAT, but I wouldn't argue if someone had him top 10 if he plays great and wins the title this year.

There are people arguing for a certain player from this era as the greatest of all-time but his achievements are qualitatively weaker next to Curry's. His supporters know this that's why they avoid a direct side-by-side comparison like the plague. You should ask why with all these sports debate shows on TV endlessly comparing one player with another they don't talk about the most obvious comparison to be made from this era.

[tpols]

Yea he's been clutch but he's gotta finish it. Boston or Miami would be the first team,where there's true pressure. Their west competition isn't the best this year. They're facing a bunch of one man bands. Miami and especially Boston have true teams and Marcus smart.

[DMAVS41]

There are people arguing for a certain player from this era as the greatest of all-time but his achievements are qualitatively weaker next to Curry's. His supporters know this that's why they avoid a direct side-by-side comparison like the plague. You should ask why with all these sports debate shows on TV endlessly comparing one player with another they don't talk about the most obvious comparison to be made from this era.

I've been on the Curry better than Durant train for years...so I don't need any convincing of the greatness of Steph. He's also just not as good of a player as Lebron was in my opinion.

I will say this...if Curry leads this team to a title and plays great...wins a finals MVP...he's up there with some lofty company.

[Shogon]

The post I responded to didn't say "offensive GOAT"...he said GOAT...and Curry is not in that conversation. Solely talking offense? Yes...he's up there in that conversation for sure.

Oh I know but it's worth a mention.

His defense is underrated mind you. He's never been a DPOY or anywhere close to it but he has played good team defense for many many years.

If Curry were a lockdown defender or anywhere close to it he would be the greatest player ever, but he's not, so he's not.

[tontoz]

People crap on Curry's defense because it is pretty hard to criticize his offense. But yeah his defense is far better than it used to be. Hitting the weights has helped a lot.

[hold this L]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.
Nahh, he has to be 7-10 at that point. Not borderline.

People crap on Curry's defense because it is pretty hard to criticize his offense. But yeah his defense is far better than it used to be. Hitting the weights has helped a lot.
He's been elite this season. Not good, elite. :applause:

[j3lademaster]

At 9.5ppg . Next is Tatum at 7.6 ppg for players still in the playoffs.

Steph allows a team to change their entire dynamic. Teams don’t have to run 4 or 5 shooters, but they need to in order to achieve the level of spacing you get with just Steph, Klay and a decent shooter like Wiggins. It’s why they can get away with running Looney and Draymond at the same time. Replace Steph with literally any player in history and that lineup wouldn’t work in the current league.

[Bronbron23]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.

I used to be a curry "hater" so to speak but recently I've grown to appreciate him a bit more. In a league that's becoming more and more ball dominant his ability to control the offensive end without dominating the ball is a breath of fresh air. I don't really like the term hate anyway because I never actually hated curry. He seems like a great dude and I've always said he was one of the best in the league and a top 15 all time.

For me it wasn't really curry that I disliked it was his Stans that overstated his greatness that did it. Them saying shit like Steph was better than Bron or Steph is the greatest offensive player ever was going too far imo. If they just let Steph be the greatest shooter ever and a top 15 player all time that be fine but like most Stans they take shit too far. In recent years with Steph and the warriors not dominating, those claims have chilled out a bit so I guess my "hate" for him has also. I'm sure if the warriors win and Steph has a good finals his Stans will be back with the exaggerated claims and I'll be forced to "hate" again but it is what is.

[DMAVS41]

Nahh, he has to be 7-10 at that point. Not borderline.

He's been elite this season. Not good, elite. :applause:

It would depend on the longevity...you are getting into some crazy good company in that range. If he does what I said and plays another 5 years at a high quality level...then yes imo.

[GimmeThat]

and Curry fans are absolutely thrilled that he's 33rd in minutes, yet others get criticized for calling them a mental midget

[Bronbron23]

It would depend on the longevity...you are getting into some crazy good company in that range. If he does what I said and plays another 5 years at a high quality level...then yes imo.

What's high quality? He's 34 now. I can see him being one of the best in the league for another year or 2 after this year but once players hit mid thirties old age usually catches up to them fast. So as far as MVPs and fmvps I think he only has a 2 year window max. After that he can still be good but I don't see him being a top 10 player in the league after 36. It almost never happens. Bron is a freak plus he's bigger. I think Karl Malone was still great at 36. Kareem was in decline but still great at 36. Those are all bigger dudes. I don't think any small guards were still dominating past their mid thirties but maybe I'm missing someone.

[Stephonit]

It would depend on the longevity...you are getting into some crazy good company in that range. If he does what I said and plays another 5 years at a high quality level...then yes imo.

Longevity is one of the dumbest arguments I see used in discussions such as this. In virtually any other field the more you can accomplish in less time the better you are considered. If Player A has 1 championship in 19 years and Player B has 1 in 5 years and is setting records and displaying dominance to boot I'm already projecting Player B as the better player.

[red1]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.

we're just trolling curry fans because the warriors became the bandwagon team of the latter half of the decade

warriors jerseys starting popping up everywhere - this is a very different batch of fans from the die-hard underdog we believe teams


then durant's scrawny ass joined their hype-train and ruined the league for two years, tarnishing his reputation for the rest of his career. shaq and chuck are on kd's ass now, calling him a career-long bus-rider :roll:

[Manny98]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.
Handed LeBron 3 finals beatdowns :oldlol:

[red1]

Handed LeBron 3 finals beatdowns :oldlol:

they got 3 rings but they also gave him his legacy. everyone had lebron as the best player in the world after every loss - no surprise considering he was the best player. it got to the point that kd was even hurt that no one cared when he won two rings. :oldlol:


this is never going to be touched. first time ever anyone led both teams in all stats - and it happened during the only 3-1 finals comeback in the nba finals and warriors gave him the only finals MVP in nba history over a 70-win team. thats GOAT shit. :oldlol:


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b3/75/c7/b375c7a409b2c1eaafcf56ef23a110b3--lebron-james-stats-nba-finals-.jpg

[AlternativeAcc.]

Could someone explain the Curry hate? I legit just don't understand it.

I've seen quite a few mainstream people over the years do it. They'll say things like Westbrook is better and that Curry has to prove he can win without Durant to solidify his place as an all-time great.

I will never understand the broken logic behind this. The dude led a team to a title without Durant and was the best player on the best regular season team in NBA history. He's averaging 27/5/6... 61%TS for his career in the playoffs and all he and his teams do is win.

If he leads this team to a title this year...he's a borderline top 10 player ever by any reasonable standard.

All his teams do is win except when they miss the playoffs like last year

His entire career is predicated on stacked teams facing injured teams. He has no fmvps and no legit titles. Only casuals buy the hype. He's the most one dimensional 'star' in the league

[Gohan]

All his teams do is win except when they miss the playoffs like last year

His entire career is predicated on stacked teams facing injured teams. He has no fmvps and no legit titles. Only casuals buy the hype. He's the most one dimensional 'star' in the league

When you dislike a player you take it to the extreme everytime. Tone that sh1t down

[Taurus]

People don’t wanna admit it, but Curry vs Kobe all time is turning into a serious argument

[dankok8]

Top 10 player seems like it's pushing it a bit but then again maybe not. He will start having a case over the likes of Hakeem and Bird with another title this year.

[Axe]

All his teams do is win except when they miss the playoffs like last year

His entire career is predicated on stacked teams facing injured teams. He has no fmvps and no legit titles. Only casuals buy the hype. He's the most one dimensional 'star' in the league
This. Just like michael jordan, he is a very blessed player with an organic team composed of good system, head coach and teammates. Honestly he wouldn't have been this relevant without them.

[Full Court]

People don’t wanna admit it, but Curry vs Kobe all time is turning into a serious argument

Curry hasn't passed him yet, but there's a decent chance Curry will end up ahead of Kobe when all is said and done.

[StrongLurk]

Have a hard time seeing Curry in the top ten all time...trying to think who I would take out and maybe I'd take Curry over Bird?

[tpols]

Have a hard time seeing Curry in the top ten all time...trying to think who I would take out and maybe I'd take Curry over Bird?

He's already done more than Hakeem. More MVPs, All NBA 1st teams, rings, totals and playoff averages. What case does Hakeem have?

[Ghost1]

the greatest front runner of all time:bowdown:

[hold this L]

the greatest front runner of all time:bowdown:

You talking about Lebron when he's down 20 in the 4th quarter? Nobody racks up points LePaddstatter in those NBA finals.. most notably 2015 and 2014 :applause::applause::applause:

[Bronbron23]

He's already done more than Hakeem. More MVPs, All NBA 1st teams, rings, totals and playoff averages. What case does Hakeem have?

No bro. Hakeem was a beast on both ends. You guys always have these convos with just half the game in mind.

And if the Rockets went out and got Michael Jordan because they didn't trust Hakeem to get it done I'm sure Hakeem would have 5 or 6 rings. The warriors went out and got a better scorer than Steph because they didn't have any faith he could win another chip. 2 of his 3 chips are a joke because of it and even the first one is lucky because the Cavs in 15 lost Irving in love.

[SouBeachTalents]

It feels like a huge double standard to me that Durant’s titles don’t count toward his all time ranking, but those 2 titles count towards Curry’s.

[tpols]

No bro. Hakeem was a beast on both ends. You guys always have these convos with just half the game in mind.

And if the Rockets went out and got Michael Jordan because they didn't trust Hakeem to get it done I'm sure Hakeem would have 5 or 6 rings. The warriors went out and got a better scorer than Steph because they didn't have any faith he could win another chip. 2 of his 3 chips are a joke because of it and even the first one is lucky because the Cavs in 15 lost Irving in love.

Hakeem at his peak probably was better than Curry because of his defense but GOAT rankings are about careers. Hakeem was more dominant than Tim Duncan on offense and same level defense yet most people rank Duncan over Hakeem because he had a more successful career.

[tpols]

And your point about rockets having MJ... lol. They had Clyde Drexler playing out of his mind in the 1995 playoffs. 20/7/6 on a blistering 120 ORTG and elite perimeter defense. A top 5 all time SG.


https://youtu.be/UzKOfqxJbEc

So you clearly don't even know who was on Hakeems team.

Curry won 73 games and championships with klay thompson as his 2nd option... Nowhere near the player Clyde Drexler was.

[hold this L]

It feels like a huge double standard to me that Durant’s titles don’t count toward his all time ranking, but those 2 titles count towards Curry’s.

All titles count.

[Bronbron23]

Hakeem at his peak probably was better than Curry because of his defense but GOAT rankings are about careers. Hakeem was more dominant than Tim Duncan on offense and same level defense yet most people rank Duncan over Hakeem because he had a more successful career.

That's fair

[Bronbron23]

And your point about rockets having MJ... lol. They had Clyde Drexler playing out of his mind in the 1995 playoffs. 20/7/6 on a blistering 120 ORTG and elite perimeter defense. A top 5 all time SG.


https://youtu.be/UzKOfqxJbEc

So you clearly don't even know who was on Hakeems team.

Curry won 73 games and championships with klay thompson as his 2nd option... Nowhere near the player Clyde Drexler was.
Bruh Clyde was nice but he wasn't kd. I don't even think Clyde was a top 10 player in 95. Kd was arguably the best player in the league.

[warriorfan]

It feels like a huge double standard to me that Durant’s titles don’t count toward his all time ranking, but those 2 titles count towards Curry’s.

None of LeBron’s count

[HoopsNY]

He's already done more than Hakeem. More MVPs, All NBA 1st teams, rings, totals and playoff averages. What case does Hakeem have?

Hakeem is a GOAT defensive player with some of the most elite offensive numbers against elite competition. Not to mention, Hakeem has 2 FMVPs. How many does Steph have?

2015 was a sham given that Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were both injured. LeBron took that series to 6 games without his #2 and #3. What's he doing with them? And even with that, Steph still couldn't win FMVP.

Steph had the greatest choke job in league history, giving up a 3-1 lead in 2016, and gave an overall underwhelming performance.

Then he teams up with KD and wins 2 more titles. Those are artificial rings of the highest order. In 2019, KD goes down and they lose to Toronto. Not to mention, Steph's defense career-wise is lack luster.

Is he a top 15 player of all-time? Sure. But he's not Hakeem.

[HoopsNY]

And your point about rockets having MJ... lol. They had Clyde Drexler playing out of his mind in the 1995 playoffs. 20/7/6 on a blistering 120 ORTG and elite perimeter defense. A top 5 all time SG.


https://youtu.be/UzKOfqxJbEc

So you clearly don't even know who was on Hakeems team.

Curry won 73 games and championships with klay thompson as his 2nd option... Nowhere near the player Clyde Drexler was.

You're acting like that 73 win team was just him and Klay. First of all, Klay was a great perimeter defender on top of giving elite shooting and 22 PPG. Add Draymond to that and a great bench, and you can see why that team dominated the way they did. And even with that, they gave up a 3-1 lead in the finals.

2015 they won, sure, but not without Kyrie and Love being out. That matters. And you'd think that series ended in a sweep. It didn't, it ended in 6 games.

[hold this L]

You're acting like that 73 win team was just him and Klay. First of all, Klay was a great perimeter defender on top of giving elite shooting and 22 PPG. Add Draymond to that and a great bench, and you can see why that team dominated the way they did. And even with that, they gave up a 3-1 lead in the finals.

2015 they won, sure, but not without Kyrie and Love being out. That matters. And you'd think that series ended in a sweep. It didn't, it ended in 6 games.

And? They won. I don't see people crying about Lebron beating up an injured Heat team when counting his rings. But yes, you need more than 1 player to have the greatest regular season of all time, what an insightful comment. Magic and MJ also had amazing teams when they dominated those RS seasons. Oddly enough, I don't see people putting their amazing accomplishments down because of the teammates they had. Draymond literally looked like one of the worst players in the league and was mocked by every single NBA analyst when Steph went down. Klay isn't looking anywhere near the same guy he was pre-2 injuries. 2 wins away from yet another finals. Here's the reality.

Steph has the GOAT RS. Also has the GOAT PS along with KD and the Shaq/Kobe Lakers team. Regardless of whatever whiny excuses you can throw out, those are his. Hakeem's accomplishments are already dwarfed by the Chef.



It's hilariously pathetic that people cling on to 1 series about Steph, but that in itself shows his greatness. Don't compare the dude that couldn't win shit without MJ being out of commission throughout an entire decade. Difference between him and Curry is that he did while one of the best of all time was on the court, and beat him 3 out of 4 times during that timeline.

[tpols]

You're acting like that 73 win team was just him and Klay. First of all, Klay was a great perimeter defender on top of giving elite shooting and 22 PPG. Add Draymond to that and a great bench, and you can see why that team dominated the way they did. And even with that, they gave up a 3-1 lead in the finals.

2015 they won, sure, but not without Kyrie and Love being out. That matters. And you'd think that series ended in a sweep. It didn't, it ended in 6 games.

The point is people think Hakeem won both his titles carrying scrubs when that wasn't true. Rockets had a deep team too and a better 2nd option. Clyde is obviously a better player than Klay. He was an MVP candidate in the 90s.

So people have a double standard where Hakeem can play with a superstar but curry isn't allowed to for his rings. Clyde was the 2nd best perimeter player of the 90s behind MJ.

[DMAVS41]

Curry definitely deserves more respect in all-time rankings than he tends to get on here and in the mainstream...where he ends up will depend on what happens this year (great shot at the title) and his longevity. Curry was really good early, but lost most of the 12 season and virtually all of the 20 season. He's played roughly 9 all-star or all-nba caliber seasons. He's going to need at least 3 more to solidify his longevity...especially in this era...for him to compare favorably to some of the best players ever on that front.

But a title and fmvp here...it's a wrap...you'll be able to argue him favorably against pretty much everyone other than the elite of the elite all time.

[DMAVS41]

The point is people think Hakeem won both his titles carrying scrubs when that wasn't true. Rockets had a deep team too and a better 2nd option. Clyde is obviously a better player than Klay. He was an MVP candidate in the 90s.

So people have a double standard where Hakeem can play with a superstar but curry isn't allowed to for his rings. Clyde was the 2nd best perimeter player of the 90s behind MJ.

True...but his 86 and 94 supporting casts were historically weak. Those are super impressive data points to make the finals and win a title in those 2 years.

[tpols]

Hakeem is a GOAT defensive player with some of the most elite offensive numbers against elite competition. Not to mention, Hakeem has 2 FMVPs. How many does Steph have?

2015 was a sham given that Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were both injured. LeBron took that series to 6 games without his #2 and #3. What's he doing with them? And even with that, Steph still couldn't win FMVP.

Steph had the greatest choke job in league history, giving up a 3-1 lead in 2016, and gave an overall underwhelming performance.

Then he teams up with KD and wins 2 more titles. Those are artificial rings of the highest order. In 2019, KD goes down and they lose to Toronto. Not to mention, Steph's defense career-wise is lack luster.

Is he a top 15 player of all-time? Sure. But he's not Hakeem.

2016 wasn't even close to the biggest chokejob ever. Curry was bad but he at least hung 22 ppg. LeBron in 2011 could only manage 18 and was a far bigger choke. Plus everybody knows that bogus suspension flipped momentum.

Hakeem literally only had 2-3 years of true playoff dominance where his team advanced deep. Curry is going on a decade of it now. Hakeem never led offenses as potent as Curry, That's statistical fact by their teams offensive ranks and ratings.

Hakeem was a great brilliant individual offensive player. He wasn't the offensive engine curry is. Not even close. In fact some people used to call Hakeem a black hole on offense. He didn't facilitate GOAT teamwork and offense... just got his at a great rate. Sort of like Anthony Davis. Which is great. But team elevation means more especially since curry is a 30+ ppg individual scorer in his own right and on better overall efficiency than Hakeem in the playoffs.

[tpols]

True...but his 86 and 94 supporting casts were historically weak. Those are super impressive data points to make the finals and win a title in those 2 years.

Yea he did overachieve in those years. So he has one title and 2 Finals with no superstar teammates. Same as Curry if the warriors win this conference finals.

I just looked up the pre season title odds for 1994 and 2015 respectively.

'94 Rockets +1200
'15 warriors +2800

So the expectations on the rockets were even more favorable than the warriors to win a title. The 90s especially in 1994 with MJ gone had great parity. You didn't necessarily need a stacked team to win that year. If john Starks doesn't go 2-18 and blow 1 shot Ewing wouldve been a champion with a historically weak 2nd option.

[DMAVS41]

Yea he did overachieve in those years. So he has one title and 2 Finals with no superstar teammates. Same as Curry if the warriors win this conference finals.

I just looked up the pre season title odds for 1994 and 2015 respectively.

'94 Rockets +1200
'15 warriors +2800

So the expectations on the rockets were even more favorable than the warriors to win a title. The 90s especially in 1994 with MJ gone had great parity. You didn't necessarily need a stacked team to win that year. If john Starks doesn't go 2-18 and blow 1 shot Ewing wouldve been a champion with a historically weak 2nd option.

I don't think the preseason odds is better evaluation metric than just comparing how good the supporting casts actually were. I'd argue Curry's in 15 was better than average while Hakeem's in 94 was definitely one of the worst....to ever win a chip.

In addition, your point about Starks could easily be flipped against Curry and one could argue that if Kyrie and Love don't get hurt...the Warriors lose....and if you want to talk about competition (which is silly to do, but you seem like you always want to...at least one side of it)...the Warriors didn't face anything noteworthy in 2015 until the Finals...and again...the team they faced was missing their 2nd and 3rd best players.

You can always point to "something" for just about any deep run if you want to...

[tpols]

The pre season odds tell us the talent level of the team and what their expectations are. In 1994 you didn't need a stacked team to win. It was pretty much wide open after MJ retired.

Its a fair point to say that if Ewing won he would have did it with a very weak 2nd option historically and he was literally one single shot away from,that happening. So if Hakeem wins, he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. If Ewing wins he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. Either way that's proof you didn't need an elite 2nd option to win in 1994 since the result would have been the same either way.

[DMAVS41]

The pre season odds tell us the talent level of the team and what their expectations are. In 1994 you didn't need a stacked team to win. It was pretty much wide open after MJ retired.

Its a fair point to say that if Ewing won he would have did it with a very weak 2nd option historically and he was literally one single shot away from,that happening. So if Hakeem wins, he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. If Ewing wins he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. Either way that's proof you didn't need an elite 2nd option to win in 1994 since the result would have been the same either way.

And the odds would change based on what actually happened. For example, the Cavs losing their 2nd and 3rd best player for the series.

Like I said...comparing the actual help matters more than mere guesses with lacking information well before a season even begins....especially when the road for the 15 Warriors was absolutely nothing noteworthy at all.

The 538 supporting cast rankings had the 15 Warriors as the 14th best supporting cast to make the finals since 1985. They had the 94 Rockets as the 59th best (4th worst)...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/

[tpols]

The warriors weren't even projected to make the Finals dude. They were the 6th projected team to come out of the west in 2015. The 1994 Rockets didn't suffer any crazy injury that would disqualify pre season odds. All their guys were good. I understand if a team loses players wed have to apply context to pre season odds but that simply didn't happen.

The historical record shows the 2015 warriors were much bigger underdogs to win the title than the 1994 Rockets. +2800 to +1200. Big difference. No major injuries to either team to disqualify the odds. Just because the dubs unlocked a GOAT chemistry doesn't mean it can be used against them for playing above their talent level.

[DMAVS41]

The warriors weren't even projected to make the Finals dude. They were the 6th projected team to come out of the west in 2015. The 1994 Rockets didn't suffer any crazy injury that would disqualify pre season odds. All their guys were good. I understand if a team loses players wed have to apply context to pre season odds but that simply didn't happen.

The historical record shows the 2015 warriors were much bigger underdogs to win the title than the 1994 Rockets. +2800 to +1200. Big difference. No major injuries to either team to disqualify the odds. Just because the dubs unlocked a GOAT chemistry doesn't mean it can be used against them for playing above their talent level.

The data also shows that the Steph had a better supporting cast than Hakeem did...and faced the 3rd worst, at the time, supporting cast in the NBA finals...because of injuries.

You can't just look at one side...and you can't make Starks arguments and not also discuss the breaks the Warriors got.

You are constantly telling us how over-rated Lebron was/is...how is it impressive to beat him and a terrible supporting cast in the Finals? According to your own assessments and logic...the Cavs were a total joke in 2015. An over-rated star with little help....:confusedshrug:

[hold this L]

And the odds would change based on what actually happened. For example, the Cavs losing their 2nd and 3rd best player for the series.

Like I said...comparing the actual help matters more than mere guesses with lacking information well before a season even begins....especially when the road for the 15 Warriors was absolutely nothing noteworthy at all.

The 538 supporting cast rankings had the 15 Warriors as the 14th best supporting cast to make the finals since 1985. They had the 94 Rockets as the 59th best (4th worst)...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-this-years-cavs-rank-among-lebrons-nba-finals-supporting-casts/

538 also had the Warriors missing the playoffs this year, so their metrics are about as useful as what happens after eating too much indian food.

[StrongLurk]

Lol are people really trying to say Curry > Hakeem? Might as well just put Curry as GOAT if you are going to suck him off that much.

[DMAVS41]

538 also had the Warriors missing the playoffs this year, so their metrics are about as useful as what happens after eating too much indian food.

And the preseason odds being referenced were obviously wrong in the case of the Warriors as well in 15....there is no perfect metric...no title won without breaks or luck...you can play this game forever.

I'm not even taking a stance on the Curry vs Hakeem thing...but you have to at least look at it from both sides.

[SouBeachTalents]

And your point about rockets having MJ... lol. They had Clyde Drexler playing out of his mind in the 1995 playoffs. 20/7/6 on a blistering 120 ORTG and elite perimeter defense. A top 5 all time SG..
:roll:

That's playing out of your mind, but Gasol averaging 20/11/4 on an even more blistering 126 ORTG is a historically weak 2nd option.

[tpols]

:roll:

That's playing out of your mind, but Gasol averaging 20/11/4 on an even more blistering 126 ORTG is a historically weak 2nd option.

That's actually the point. A lot of people used to say Kobe was carried by his frontcourt. Pau Gasol is maybe a top 15 all time PF. Never an MVP candidate and never out of the first round as 1st option. (literally swept every time)

Clyde literally led a team to the Finals and was an MVP candidate and top 5 all time at his position.

You just showed how skewed the perception is of Hakeems help. Most people think he carried scrubs when he was playing with amazing help for half his titles. And in the year he wasn't neither was his competition. Starks was the 2nd option on the team he beat. An inefficient shitty 2nd option historically.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's actually the point. A lot of people used to say Kobe was carried by his frontcourt. Pau Gasol is maybe a top 15 all time PF. Never an MVP candidate and never out of the first round as 1st option. Clyde literally led a team to the Finals and was an MVP candidate and top 5 all time at his position.

You just showed how skewed the perception is of Hakeems help. Most people think he carried scrubs when he was playing with amazing help for half his titles. And in the year he wasn't neither was his competition. Starks wad the 2nd option on the team he beat. An inefficient shitty 2nd option historically.
What their all time positional ranking is, or what they did earlier in their career, is IRRELEVANT, the only thing that matters is how the player in question performed. Drexler was still a good player in '95, but he was simply not the player he was on Portland. And just being frank, his production is extremely standard for a typical championship 2nd option. He was honestly no better than Gasol was in 2010.

[tpols]

For people adding up offense and defense like addition.... Is Gary Payton better than Magic Johnson? Is Garnett way better than Dirk? Is David Robinson way better than Charles Barkley? Nobody would agree to those things yet those guys destroy their comparison on defense while also being very high level offensive players.

Hakeems Rockets finished 15th and 7th on offense in rank in 1994 and 1995 respectively. Curry has led literal record breaking #1 all time GOAT offenses.

You can miss,me with Hakeem being better than curry offensively. There s a difference between a GOAT offensive engine and an individually brilliant iso scorer. The offensive ranks don't lie.

[DMAVS41]

That's actually the point. A lot of people used to say Kobe was carried by his frontcourt. Pau Gasol is maybe a top 15 all time PF. Never an MVP candidate and never out of the first round as 1st option. (literally swept every time)

Clyde literally led a team to the Finals and was an MVP candidate and top 5 all time at his position.

You just showed how skewed the perception is of Hakeems help. Most people think he carried scrubs when he was playing with amazing help for half his titles. And in the year he wasn't neither was his competition. Starks was the 2nd option on the team he beat. An inefficient shitty 2nd option historically.

You don't get bonus points in current games based on what you did in your past.

You are all over the place here. Drexler is an amazing 2nd option as evidenced by the stats you provide, but Gasol is nothing of note even though he has similar stats (probably better)...

Curry winning in 15 is super impressive even though he faced weak competition in the West and then faced a player you think is massively over-rated missing his 2nd and 3rd best guys...

Do you really not see the blatant contradictions in your arguments?

Just say you think Curry's offense and what he provides a team is more valuable than what Hakeem provided....and stop doing these bullshit...one title is better than the other...because you can't stay remotely consistent.

[DMAVS41]

That's actually the point. A lot of people used to say Kobe was carried by his frontcourt. Pau Gasol is maybe a top 15 all time PF. Never an MVP candidate and never out of the first round as 1st option. (literally swept every time)

Clyde literally led a team to the Finals and was an MVP candidate and top 5 all time at his position.

You just showed how skewed the perception is of Hakeems help. Most people think he carried scrubs when he was playing with amazing help for half his titles. And in the year he wasn't neither was his competition. Starks was the 2nd option on the team he beat. An inefficient shitty 2nd option historically.


But JR Smith was a monster...right?

[tpols]

[/B]

But JR Smith was a monster...right?

You're only furthering the case here for Curry. Everybody knows they faced a team in the Finals that had weak help surrounding their superstar LeBron James. Even though the help played much better than thought was possible. Everybody knows that.

What everybody doesn't know is Hakeem beat a team in the Finals that had a similar shitty cast around his Finals opponent. John Starks was horrible. And as inefficient as LeBron was in the 2015 Finals, he was better than Ewing in the 1994 Finals. Ewing had a terrible offensive series.

This is the point. Hakeems Rockets are seen as some champion underdogs... They had +1200 odds at winning the title to the warriors +2800. And faced a bed wetting team in the Finals that was ONE single shot away from,beating them anyway. Nobody acknowledges this and makes Hakeem look like a hero, while simultaneously shitting on Curry for 2015.

So I'm correcting the record here. You didn't know the 1994 Rockets had way better title odds than the 2015 warriors.

I had to show you that.

[DMAVS41]

You're only furthering the case here for Curry. Everybody knows they faced a team in the Finals that had weak help surrounding their superstar LeBron James. Even though the help played much better than thought was possible. Everybody knows that.

What everybody doesn't know is Hakeem beat a team in the Finals that had a similar shitty cast around his Finals opponent. John Starks was horrible. And as inefficient as LeBron was in the 2015 Finals, he was better than Ewing in the 1994 Finals. Ewing had a terrible offensive series.

This is the point. Hakeems Rockets are seen as some champion underdogs... They had +1200 odds at winning the title to the warriors +2800. And faced a bed wetting team in the Finals that was ONE single shot away from,beating them anyway. Nobody acknowledges this and makes Hakeem look like a hero, while simultaneously shitting on Curry for 2015.

So I'm correcting the record here. You didn't k,ow the 1994 Rockets had way better title odds than the 2015 warriors.

I had to show you that.

I didn't know? I watched it you clown.

You are playing a game of semantics. That is why I chimed in. You are trying to devalue Hakeem's title by using the term "underdog" and preseason odds to create a narrative.

All I have said was that Curry had better help than Hakeem and Hakeem faced tougher competition. The 94 Rockets had to beat the Suns to even get out of the 2nd round iirc...that Suns team was better than any team the Warriors faced in 2015 imo.

I don't think you even know what you are arguing at this point.

Which title was more impressive? Curry in 15 or Hakeem in 94?

[SouBeachTalents]

You're only furthering the case here for Curry. Everybody knows they faced a team in the Finals that had weak help surrounding their superstar LeBron James. Even though the help played much better than thought was possible. Everybody knows that.

What everybody doesn't know is Hakeem beat a team in the Finals that had a similar shitty cast around his Finals opponent. John Starks was horrible. And as inefficient as LeBron was in the 2015 Finals, he was better than Ewing in the 1994 Finals. Ewing had a terrible offensive series.

This is the point. Hakeems Rockets are seen as some champion underdogs... They had +1200 odds at winning the title to the warriors +2800. And faced a bed wetting team in the Finals that was ONE single shot away from,beating them anyway. Nobody acknowledges this and makes Hakeem look like a hero, while simultaneously shitting on Curry for 2015.

So I'm correcting the record here. You didn't know the 1994 Rockets had way better title odds than the 2015 warriors.

I had to show you that.
1994 Finals
Starks: 18/3/6 on 50%TS
Maxwell: 13/3/3 on 45%TS

You can harp on Starks, but he BLOWS away the production of Hakeem's 2nd option :lol

That's not even including the Knicks also had Harper averaging 16/3/6 on 59%TS in that series, possibly the FMVP if the Knicks win.

[tpols]

I mean you clearly didnt know. Most people didn't. That's why you acted shocked when I showed you the rockets had much better title odds. And then tried to make up a bunch of excuses. That's simply what the expectations and reality were my friend.

[hold this L]

And the preseason odds being referenced were obviously wrong in the case of the Warriors as well in 15....there is no perfect metric...no title won without breaks or luck...you can play this game forever.

I'm not even taking a stance on the Curry vs Hakeem thing...but you have to at least look at it from both sides.
I'm just saying that those statistics are not reliable, because they have been laughably bad. Warriors finished 8th, had Klay coming back and beefed up the depth and yet whatever metrics these guys used stated that they would finish 14th. It's flawed data. The preseason odds are what people think, and I'm sure preseason odds for Nets and Lakers to win the championship this season was likely somewhere at the top as well for example. :lol You don't know as much outside of history until a quarter of the season is underway IMO.

[DMAVS41]

I mean you clearly didnt know. Most people didn't. That's why you acted shocked when I showed you the rockets had much better title odds. And then tried to make up a bunch of excuses. That's simply what the expectations and reality were my friend.

I didn't even react to it...I simply said Hakeem had less help.

But keep on keeping on...

[DMAVS41]

I'm just saying that those statistics are not reliable, because they have been laughably bad. Warriors finished 8th, had Klay coming back and beefed up the depth and yet whatever metrics these guys used stated that they would finish 14th. It's flawed data. The preseason odds are what people think, and I'm sure preseason odds for Nets and Lakers to win the championship this season was likely somewhere at the top as well for example. :lol You don't know as much outside of history until a quarter of the season is underway IMO.

Nothing is perfect, but I think the metrics they used to rank the supporting casts is more accurate than mere predictions about what is going to happen. There is a big difference analyzing what happened vs predicting it.

[paksat]

Hakeem is a GOAT defensive player with some of the most elite offensive numbers against elite competition. Not to mention, Hakeem has 2 FMVPs. How many does Steph have?

2015 was a sham given that Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were both injured. LeBron took that series to 6 games without his #2 and #3. What's he doing with them? And even with that, Steph still couldn't win FMVP.

Steph had the greatest choke job in league history, giving up a 3-1 lead in 2016, and gave an overall underwhelming performance.

Then he teams up with KD and wins 2 more titles. Those are artificial rings of the highest order. In 2019, KD goes down and they lose to Toronto. Not to mention, Steph's defense career-wise is lack luster.

Is he a top 15 player of all-time? Sure. But he's not Hakeem.

solid post, irrefutable points

irving out played the crap out of him in those series. he's just not good enough defensively to be all time great, but he has always had great defensive players on his teams to mask it.

[Stephonit]

Nothing is perfect, but I think the metrics they used to rank the supporting casts is more accurate than mere predictions about what is going to happen.

Metrics used to rank the supporting cast? Then according to 538 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-predictions/) the team this year that is the big underdog that made it all the way to conference finals is the Warriors!

The Celtics they think are a near all-time great team and should be heavily favored.

[DMAVS41]

Metrics used to rank the supporting cast? Then according to 538 (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-predictions/) the team this year that is the big underdog that made it all the way to conference finals is the Warriors!

The Celtics they think are a near all-time great team and should be heavily favored.

Metrics, like anything, can be wrong...just like, you know, opinions and the eye-test...I'm also not sure they are using the same measures for what they did in the past to rank the finals supporting casts.

Before they released their list...the most commonly thought worst supporting casts to make the finals were definitely 07 Cavs / 99 Knicks / 11 Mavs / 94 Rockets / 03 Spurs...and to a lesser extent the 01 Sixers and 86 Rockets. All of those teams that everyone using the "eye-test" to judge...wound up at the bottom of the rankings. So lets tap the brakes here on claiming there is no touch of reality....everyone already had agreed on most of these well before this list ever came out.

I will say though...I actually didn't think the Warriors would beat the Grizzlies...maybe Ja going out was the difference or maybe the Warriors were/are just better than I thought.

It's just one data point...but I've yet to hear anyone actually claim that the 15 Warriors supporting cast around Curry was worse than Hakeem's in 94.

[NBAGOAT]

Steph is a better offensive player than hakeem quote significantly. Yes hakeem has 2 way play but shaq is considered better than hakeem because of his offense, he’s some years in his prime not a good defender. Curry can have a shaq type career with a longer prime. His stats drop a bit in the playoffs but his impact is there. Saw some stat in another thread where curry has like a net rating of +6.5 while even lebron is only +5.

As for the metrics they can’t account for dray not giving effort during the regular season last few years or Poole or Wiggins leaps or klay coming back relatively well(I didnt either). Also low key a big thing is wiseman not playing. He was such a negative last year he cost the warriors like 5 games compared to someone average

[Gohan]

Damn curry on some prime allen iverson stuff. Im officially proud to call curry a “juggernaut”

[Axe]

Hakeem is a GOAT defensive player with some of the most elite offensive numbers against elite competition. Not to mention, Hakeem has 2 FMVPs. How many does Steph have?

2015 was a sham given that Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving were both injured. LeBron took that series to 6 games without his #2 and #3. What's he doing with them? And even with that, Steph still couldn't win FMVP.

Steph had the greatest choke job in league history, giving up a 3-1 lead in 2016, and gave an overall underwhelming performance.

Then he teams up with KD and wins 2 more titles. Those are artificial rings of the highest order. In 2019, KD goes down and they lose to Toronto. Not to mention, Steph's defense career-wise is lack luster.

Is he a top 15 player of all-time? Sure. But he's not Hakeem.
Bingo. Let's not forget that he was the only mvp with this big unforgettable stain, even moreso with a 70-win team. A lot of his fans are also bandwagon freaks. :yaohappy:

[HoopsNY]

And? They won. I don't see people crying about Lebron beating up an injured Heat team when counting his rings. But yes, you need more than 1 player to have the greatest regular season of all time, what an insightful comment. Magic and MJ also had amazing teams when they dominated those RS seasons. Oddly enough, I don't see people putting their amazing accomplishments down because of the teammates they had. Draymond literally looked like one of the worst players in the league and was mocked by every single NBA analyst when Steph went down. Klay isn't looking anywhere near the same guy he was pre-2 injuries. 2 wins away from yet another finals. Here's the reality.

I'm not talking about this season. And I said nothing about LeBron's 2020 finals against Miami. Furthermore, none of Steph's playoff accomplishments trump Hakeem's '94 run....none.


Steph has the GOAT RS. Also has the GOAT PS along with KD and the Shaq/Kobe Lakers team. Regardless of whatever whiny excuses you can throw out, those are his. Hakeem's accomplishments are already dwarfed by the Chef.


Nonsense. As mentioned before, Hakeem's '94 run is a GOAT run, beaten only by maybe Tim Duncan's '03. And Hakeem has 2 FMVPs. How many does Steph have? :lol


It's hilariously pathetic that people cling on to 1 series about Steph, but that in itself shows his greatness. Don't compare the dude that couldn't win shit without MJ being out of commission throughout an entire decade. Difference between him and Curry is that he did while one of the best of all time was on the court, and beat him 3 out of 4 times during that timeline.

As opposed to Love/Kyrie being out and then partnering with KD to win 2 titles? You're kidding me right?

[HoopsNY]

The point is people think Hakeem won both his titles carrying scrubs when that wasn't true. Rockets had a deep team too and a better 2nd option. Clyde is obviously a better player than Klay. He was an MVP candidate in the 90s.

So people have a double standard where Hakeem can play with a superstar but curry isn't allowed to for his rings. Clyde was the 2nd best perimeter player of the 90s behind MJ.

This would add up if you didn't factor in who the '95 Rockets were facing. Shaq+Penny, and then Grant who was an All-Star and All-Defensive in 1994, and then All-Defensive in 1995. They also had Scott and Anderson who were two 20 PPG scorers prior to Shaq and Penny, but took diminished roles to facilitate that juggernaut 1+2 punch.

Who's better, the '95 Magic or a Kyrie/Love-less Cavs team with Delly, Smith, and co?

[Stephonit]

This would add up if you didn't factor in who the '95 Rockets were facing. Shaq+Penny, and then Grant who was an All-Star and All-Defensive in 1994, and then All-Defensive in 1995. They also had Scott and Anderson who were two 20 PPG scorers prior to Shaq and Penny, but took diminished roles to facilitate that juggernaut 1+2 punch.

Who's better, the '95 Magic or a Kyrie/Love-less Cavs team with Delly, Smith, and co?

That '95 Magic team was pushed to 7 games in the Eastern Conference final by a 52-win Pacers team. The Cavs swept the 60-win Hawks.


I'm not talking about this season. And I said nothing about LeBron's 2020 finals against Miami. Furthermore, none of Steph's playoff accomplishments trump Hakeem's '94 run....none.


Curry led a team to 67 wins in the regular season. The Rockets underperformed expectations in that part of the season. Curry then led his team with no players who had been to a finals before to a championship past all the other teams with All-NBA First Team players that year and were also the highest seeds possible on the Warriors' path. Curry also faced LeBron while Hakeem didn't meet Jordan.

One can claim Hakeem's championship was more impressive but Curry's run in 2015 is greatly underrated.

[HoopsNY]

2016 wasn't even close to the biggest chokejob ever. Curry was bad but he at least hung 22 ppg. LeBron in 2011 could only manage 18 and was a far bigger choke. Plus everybody knows that bogus suspension flipped momentum.

GS was a 73 win team and was up 3-1. Miami was up 2-1 and lost. It's not the same. At best you can say it was the greatest upset, but in no way was it the greatest choke job for a team.


Hakeem literally only had 2-3 years of true playoff dominance where his team advanced deep. Curry is going on a decade of it now. Hakeem never led offenses as potent as Curry, That's statistical fact by their teams offensive ranks and ratings.

'86-'93 Hakeem put up 27/14/3/2/4 on 54%. People act like Hakeem's dominance started in his championship years. You can't fault him for the demise of a franchise that would have been if not for the injuries to Sampson and the cocaine addictions of his starting lineup.


Hakeem was a great brilliant individual offensive player. He wasn't the offensive engine curry is. Not even close. In fact some people used to call Hakeem a black hole on offense. He didn't facilitate GOAT teamwork and offense... just got his at a great rate. Sort of like Anthony Davis. Which is great. But team elevation means more especially since curry is a 30+ ppg individual scorer in his own right and on better overall efficiency than Hakeem in the playoffs.

He didn't have to be. Hakeem was a defensive machine, which coupled with his offensive abilities trumps Steph. Not to mention, Hakeem did what he did in an era where the paint was clogged and filled with elite 4s and 5s on both sides of the court. Steph played through an era that saw lax perimeter play to enhance 3PT shooting. The two are not the same.

And look at the evolution of the game as GS adapted to the lax perimeter play...

2010 GS: 14th ORTG
2011 GS: 12th ORTG
2012 GS: 14th ORTG
2013 GS: 11th ORTG
2014 GS: 12th ORTG
2020 GS: 30th ORTG* (Steph injured)
2021 GS: 20th ORTG
2022 GS: 17th ORTG

2015-2019 they were elite, and 3 of those 5 years were with KD. So magically we just ignore the rest of the sample size? Maybe, just maybe, GS' offense had a lot more to do with the rest of the squad than just Steph?

[HoopsNY]

The pre season odds tell us the talent level of the team and what their expectations are. In 1994 you didn't need a stacked team to win. It was pretty much wide open after MJ retired.

Its a fair point to say that if Ewing won he would have did it with a very weak 2nd option historically and he was literally one single shot away from,that happening. So if Hakeem wins, he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. If Ewing wins he did it with a historically weak 2nd option. Either way that's proof you didn't need an elite 2nd option to win in 1994 since the result would have been the same either way.

C'mon man, you're grasping at straws here. Hakeem beat Portland with Portland's second option putting up 24/4/10 on 50%. He beat Phoenix with Phoenix's second option putting up 27/4/10 on 44%. They beat Utah with Utah's 3rd option outscoring Houston's 2nd and 3rd options.

Then they beat the Knicks, who were the #1 Defensive team and one of the most ferocious defensive teams in league history. Look at what their cast did as opposed to Houston's.

Maxwell put up 13 PPG on 36%, Horry 10 PPG on 32%, Cassell 10 PPG on 42%.

Starks - 17 PPG on 37%
Harper - 16 PPG on 47%
Oakley - 11 PPG on 48%

[HoopsNY]

For people adding up offense and defense like addition.... Is Gary Payton better than Magic Johnson? Is Garnett way better than Dirk? Is David Robinson way better than Charles Barkley? Nobody would agree to those things yet those guys destroy their comparison on defense while also being very high level offensive players.

Hakeems Rockets finished 15th and 7th on offense in rank in 1994 and 1995 respectively. Curry has led literal record breaking #1 all time GOAT offenses.

You can miss,me with Hakeem being better than curry offensively. There s a difference between a GOAT offensive engine and an individually brilliant iso scorer. The offensive ranks don't lie.

Only no one is saying that Hakeem > Steph offensively. Rather, the complete package of Hakeem, which is elite offensive and GOAT defense (arguably the greatest defensive player ever), trumps Steph.

[Stephonit]

Only no one is saying that Hakeem > Steph offensively. Rather, the complete package of Hakeem, which is elite offensive and GOAT defense (arguably the greatest defensive player ever), trumps Steph.

Hakeem doesn't have Curry's off-ball or facilitating game and Curry's offense has more explosive potential.

[HoopsNY]

You don't get bonus points in current games based on what you did in your past.

You are all over the place here. Drexler is an amazing 2nd option as evidenced by the stats you provide, but Gasol is nothing of note even though he has similar stats (probably better)...

Curry winning in 15 is super impressive even though he faced weak competition in the West and then faced a player you think is massively over-rated missing his 2nd and 3rd best guys...

Do you really not see the blatant contradictions in your arguments?

Just say you think Curry's offense and what he provides a team is more valuable than what Hakeem provided....and stop doing these bullshit...one title is better than the other...because you can't stay remotely consistent.

He keeps bringing up Drexler but ignores Penny. How did Drexler fair compared to Penny?

Drexler '95 Finals: 22/10/7/1/0 on 56% TS%
Penny '95 Finals: 26/5/8/1/1 on 64% TS%

[HoopsNY]

1994 Finals
Starks: 18/3/6 on 50%TS
Maxwell: 13/3/3 on 45%TS

You can harp on Starks, but he BLOWS away the production of Hakeem's 2nd option :lol

That's not even including the Knicks also had Harper averaging 16/3/6 on 59%TS in that series, possibly the FMVP if the Knicks win.

He fails to mention the Knicks were the #1 defensive team (amongst the best all time) and had 3 All-Stars. And on top of that, the trio of Starks+Oakley+Harper were better than Hakeem's cast by a mile.

[Bronbron23]

The warriors went out and got a better scorer than Steph in his prime because they didn't trust him to get it done. Nuff said. End thread

[HoopsNY]

Hakeem doesn't have Curry's off-ball or facilitating game and Curry's offense has more explosive potential.

And again, who is claiming that Hakeem > Steph offensively?

[Gohan]

The warriors went out and got a better scorer than Steph in his prime because they didn't trust him to get it done. Nuff said. End thread

No nba is a business if they had a chance to sign lebron they would of signed him too. Dont play stupid now

[Bronbron23]

No nba is a business if they had a chance to sign lebron they would of signed him too. Dont play stupid now

You're the one playing stupid. The warriors were the most popular team in the league. Getting kd had nothing to do with business and money. They got kd so they could win because they knew they couldn't with Steph. This is something Steph Stans like to ignore but it is really is telling.

[Axe]

The warriors went out and got a better scorer than Steph in his prime because they didn't trust him to get it done. Nuff said. End thread
Ether.

[DMAVS41]

GS was a 73 win team and was up 3-1. Miami was up 2-1 and lost. It's not the same. At best you can say it was the greatest upset, but in no way was it the greatest choke job for a team.



'86-'93 Hakeem put up 27/14/3/2/4 on 54%. People act like Hakeem's dominance started in his championship years. You can't fault him for the demise of a franchise that would have been if not for the injuries to Sampson and the cocaine addictions of his starting lineup.



He didn't have to be. Hakeem was a defensive machine, which coupled with his offensive abilities trumps Steph. Not to mention, Hakeem did what he did in an era where the paint was clogged and filled with elite 4s and 5s on both sides of the court. Steph played through an era that saw lax perimeter play to enhance 3PT shooting. The two are not the same.

And look at the evolution of the game as GS adapted to the lax perimeter play...

2010 GS: 14th ORTG
2011 GS: 12th ORTG
2012 GS: 14th ORTG
2013 GS: 11th ORTG
2014 GS: 12th ORTG
2020 GS: 30th ORTG* (Steph injured)
2021 GS: 20th ORTG
2022 GS: 17th ORTG

2015-2019 they were elite, and 3 of those 5 years were with KD. So magically we just ignore the rest of the sample size? Maybe, just maybe, GS' offense had a lot more to do with the rest of the squad than just Steph?

A lot of this is why this year is so important for his legacy. He's already one of the best ever, but if he plays great and they win the title. Nothing can really be said. I will say though that the year KD got hurt...they won at like a 65 win pace without him and easily made the finals.

So while I agree with most of your argument...without KD they've proven a lot.

[Stephonit]

You're the one playing stupid. The warriors were the most popular team in the league. Getting kd had nothing to do with business and money. They got kd so they could win because they knew they couldn't with Steph. This is something Steph Stans like to ignore but it is really is telling.

They got KD because for almost the same amount of money they'd be paying Harrison Barnes they could upgrade to KD.



A lot of this is why this year is so important for his legacy. He's already one of the best ever, but if he plays great and they win the title. Nothing can really be said. I will say though that the year KD got hurt...they won at like a 65 win pace without him and easily made the finals.

So while I agree with most of your argument...without KD they've proven a lot.

Nothing can really be said already. But more rings always help.

[Bronbron23]

They got KD because for almost the same amount of money they'd be paying Harrison Barnes they could upgrade to KD.




Nothing can really be said already. But more rings always help.

Almost? Bruh they paid kd about 70 million more than what they would of had to pay barnes.