This may sound crazy but if Jimmy Butler gets to the Finals again....

[Mask the Embiid]

We have to start ranking this dude up there with the greats...That would be 2 Finals appearances as the guy and he raised his performance in the playoffs big time... Thats karl malone ish.....thats more finals than barkley....im not saying.....but im just saying + he got it from the mud...thats pretty much just like homegrown finals appearances... The heat were nothing before he got there in the late 2019...its actually even more impressive than homegrown cause he intentionally took a hard road and overachieved....

[RRR3]

He's underrated because he doesn't score as much as most superstars.

[1987_Lakers]

Not crazy at all, although I wouldn't put him anywhere near guys like Barkley, Malone, or CP3....I can see him being discussed somwhere in the top 45-60. Those Drexler comparisons don't seem crazy at all now.

[RRR3]

Not crazy at all, although I wouldn't put him anywhere near guys like Barkley, Malone, or CP3....I can see him being discussed somwhere in the top 45-60. Those Drexler comparisons don't seem crazy at all now.
Not unless you are addicted to nostalgia, yeah.

[Mask the Embiid]

This game 7 is even bigger for him than tatum....cause if tatum wins a ring.... and i mean the whole thing not just make it to the finals. He would just break the top 100-90 all time players . If Jimmy wins game 7 and just gets to the Finals, he will legit be a top 75 player ever....and closer to the #20 than to the #75....He would fly up the rankings just off another finals appearance alone...not even winning the whole thing. i hope ppl get that....This is a legacy defining game for him


Yes, some top players are better regular-season players than him...but he is better than a lot of legends when it matters the most... the playoffs...when the lights are the brightest...when scoring is the toughest..... His scoring goes up....a lot of top 75 ppls go down (not saying any names).... just keeping it real

[Axe]

Looks like the sixers are cursed to be a second-round fodder for a while and butler himself knew this. That's why he left for miami in 2019.

[ZionDunks]

Jimmy doesn’t get the credit he should (he is unbelievable) because he’s played on a million teams. He needs to finish with the Heat. He will go down as an all time player. He’s on par with Barkley to me

[plowking]

I don't think Jimmy gets the credit he deserves just due to how malleable he is as a player. He does everything well, and I think he changes it up for his team depending on where he thinks his energy is best spent to win the game.

He doesn't have any weaknesses in his game. Just shifts his focus to what he needs to do. Extremely hard to rank because of it.

[RRR3]

I don't think Jimmy gets the credit he deserves just due to how malleable he is as a player. He does everything well, and I think he changes it up for his team depending on where he thinks his energy is best spent to win the game.

He doesn't have any weaknesses in his game. Just shifts his focus to what he needs to do. Extremely hard to rank because of it.
3point shooting is a pretty clear weakness lol but he is terrific.

[Im Still Ballin]

His impact is greater than his regular-season stat line suggests. Much like Dr J in the '80s, he willingly chooses to play within a democratic offense. He obviously can do more, but he leaves it till the playoffs when it's direly needed.

[Phoenix]

He is a tough rank because he's more of a 'whatever it takes to win' type and has never seemed that interested in chasing personal stats or achievements. If he was something like a 25/6/6 guy over his career it'd be alot easier to measure him against other greats at his position, but as is his stats don't measure up as well as high number of all-NBA/all-star appearances that are the usual bullet-point metrics. I think history will rate him somewhere in that 50-60 range which may be selling his actual impact about ten spots or so too low.

[Full Court]

He took the worst finals team ever to the finals in 2020...but everything was so off kilter in the bubble, that you can't really rank it the same way you would in a normal season.

[Phoenix]

He took the worst finals team ever to the finals in 2020...but everything was so off kilter in the bubble, that you can't really rank it the same way you would in a normal season.

Perhaps, but if Miami pulls off the comeback it does show that he's capable of being the best guy on a finals team outside of extenuating conditions. He will have knocked off the team that took out KD and Giannis in back to back rounds, that has to mean something.

[Bronbron23]

We have to start ranking this dude up there with the greats...That would be 2 Finals appearances as the guy and he raised his performance in the playoffs big time... Thats karl malone ish.....thats more finals than barkley....im not saying.....but im just saying + he got it from the mud...thats pretty much just like homegrown finals appearances... The heat were nothing before he got there in the late 2019...its actually even more impressive than homegrown cause he intentionally took a hard road and overachieved....

Hell no and I really like Butler. 2 finals runner ups with little else to show in the way of MVPs, scoring titles, first team all NBA ect does not put you up there with the greatest of all time players.

[Full Court]

Perhaps, but if Miami pulls off the comeback it does show that he's capable of being the best guy on a finals team outside of extenuating conditions. He will have knocked off the team that took out KD and Giannis in back to back rounds, that has to mean something.

Agree. I have Butler as easily a top ten player in the league. Probably closer to top 5.

[Full Court]

Hell no and I really like Butler. 2 finals runner ups with little else to show in the way of MVPs, scoring titles, first team all NBA ect does not put you up there with the greatest of all time players.

True. But if he can manage to beat the Warriors this year with this Heat team, the conversation changes. It should put him into the top 20-25 for sure.

[FKAri]

He took the worst finals team ever to the finals in 2020...but everything was so off kilter in the bubble, that you can't really rank it the same way you would in a normal season.

Yet they're one game away from going back to the finals with the same core in a "regular" season. They were bad IN the finals because of injuries but not on their way there.


Hell no and I really like Butler. 2 finals runner ups with little else to show in the way of MVPs, scoring titles, first team all NBA ect does not put you up there with the greatest of all time players.

I guess he should've been glory hunting more.

[Shooter]

bUt hE hAs a fiNaLs lOsS dOe

Shouldnt he be boosting his legacy by losing this round so he cant get a Finals loss? :lol

Real winners lose early :pimp:

[Bronbron23]

True. But if he can manage to beat the Warriors this year with this Heat team, the conversation changes. It should put him into the top 20-25 for sure.

Yeah a chip against the warriors is a different story

[Shooter]

Yeah a chip against the warriors is a different story

Dumb. He's one Curry injury away from that.

Look at his INDIVIDUAL play and it's obvious Butler already is an all-timer.

cHiPs dOe :lol

So is Bill Russell goat?

[ImKobe]

I wouldn't put him that high because his numbers aren't that great overall for his career and he's had maybe 2 or 3 seasons where you could say that he was top 10 in the league, but he's making his case as a future 1st ballot HOFer. Right now he's leading the POs in WS/BPM/VORP numbers and his raw averages/PER are very solid as well, and that's with the 3 horrible games after he tweaked his knee.

He's in rare company with Steve Nash as players who went up a level and peaked in their 30s. I guess you could make that argument for MJ or Kobe or Lebron as well, but only a few players have went from All-Star to superstar level in their 30s.

[Bronbron23]

bUt hE hAs a fiNaLs lOsS dOe

Shouldnt he be boosting his legacy by losing this round so he cant get a Finals loss? :lol

Real winners lose early :pimp:

Nah regardless if he loses first round or last he still lost. His legacy only got a boost from losing in the finals a couple years ago because of how he was always viewed as a cancer. The bar for him was set so low that anything positive helped his career. The atg are juged on a tougher scale but if you want compare Bron to lower level guys like Butler all the power to you:oldlol:

[Shooter]

Nah regardless if he loses first round or last he still lost. His legacy only got a boost from losing in the finals a couple years ago because of how he was always viewed as a cancer. The bar for him was set so low that anything positive helped his career. The atg are juged on a tougher scale but if you want compare Bron to lower level guys like Butler all the power to you:oldlol:

Nope you're wrong. Losing in the 1st round is MUCH better for your Legacy than winning that round, winning the next round, then winning ANOTHER round, then losing.

It's better for your legacy to win fewer playoff series and play fewer games and have less success :oldlol:

[plowking]

True. But if he can manage to beat the Warriors this year with this Heat team, the conversation changes. It should put him into the top 20-25 for sure.


Lets not get crazy. Butler isn't a better player than someone like Barkley or Malone. Consistency and level of play over an extended period of time count for a lot.

[Johnny32]

reminder: 35 yr old legoat held jimmy to 12 points on 10 fga in gm 6 of the 2020 nba finals.

[PeroAntic]

reminder: 35 yr old legoat held jimmy to 12 points on 10 fga in gm 6 of the 2020 nba finals.

:facepalm

[coin24]

By OPs logic Jason Terry is an all time great

[Bronbron23]

Dumb. He's one Curry injury away from that.

Look at his INDIVIDUAL play and it's obvious Butler already is an all-timer.

cHiPs dOe :lol

So is Bill Russell goat?

Injuries are a part of the game. Sorry dude winning matters. That's why u play the game. Nothing else means shit. Sure it helps when trying to figure atg ranking rankings but you have to have everything to be in that convo. Chips, stats and accolades. Butler has the stats recently but he didn't have the chips and accolades to put him in the same breath as the other atg players who had everything or at the very least 2 out of 3.

And yes Russell absolutely has an argument for goat. It's funny how ya'll clowns will prop pip up as one of the greatest but Russell isn't considered because he isn't from this era. Russell was putting up playoff pip scoring numbers but getting 3x more rebounds and he was a better defender.

Plus everyone knows sports is over 70% mental and Russell is largely viewed as the most intelligent player ever. Not saying he's the goat because I don't believe in the goat talk because I'm not an idiot but Russell definitely has a case.

[Bronbron23]

Nope you're wrong. Losing in the 1st round is MUCH better for your Legacy than winning that round, winning the next round, then winning ANOTHER round, then losing.

It's better for your legacy to win fewer playoff series and play fewer games and have less success :oldlol:

Nah it's not better but it isn't much worse. Losing is losing buddy

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't put him that high because his numbers aren't that great overall for his career and he's had maybe 2 or 3 seasons where you could say that he was top 10 in the league, but he's making his case as a future 1st ballot HOFer. Right now he's leading the POs in WS/BPM/VORP numbers and his raw averages/PER are very solid as well, and that's with the 3 horrible games after he tweaked his knee.

He's in rare company with Steve Nash as players who went up a level and peaked in their 30s. I guess you could make that argument for MJ or Kobe or Lebron as well, but only a few players have went from All-Star to superstar level in their 30s.

Peaked in what sense? MJ was 30 in 1993, Kobe in 2008. I don't think either were better after 30 than they were before. Mayyyyyybe you can stretch it to 2009 for Kobe and even then he was 30/31, right on the line. But you're a Kobe guy, would you take any version of Kobe from 30 onwards over 2006, or 2003? At least with Lebron, there's an argument his offensive peak was 2018( at 33) but as an overall player( offensively, defensively, mentally) he peaked in 2013.

[tpols]

Not crazy at all, although I wouldn't put him anywhere near guys like Barkley, Malone, or CP3....I can see him being discussed somwhere in the top 45-60. Those Drexler comparisons don't seem crazy at all now.

Jimmy butler is better than Chris Paul. Especially in the playoffs.

[Shooter]

Injuries are a part of the game. Sorry dude winning matters. That's why u play the game. Nothing else means shit. Sure it helps when trying to figure atg ranking rankings but you have to have everything to be in that convo. Chips, stats and accolades. Butler has the stats recently but he didn't have the chips and accolades to put him in the same breath as the other atg players who had everything or at the very least 2 out of 3.

And yes Russell absolutely has an argument for goat. It's funny how ya'll clowns will prop pip up as one of the greatest but Russell isn't considered because he isn't from this era. Russell was putting up playoff pip scoring numbers but getting 3x more rebounds and he was a better defender.

Plus everyone knows sports is over 70% mental and Russell is largely viewed as the most intelligent player ever. Not saying he's the goat because I don't believe in the goat talk because I'm not an idiot but Russell definitely has a case.

"Injuries are part of the game." Oh yeah? They are? :lol Thanks, didn't know that...Like WTF does that even mean?

Everything is part of the game. EVERYTHING. Politics. The weather (See Dallas leak). Faulty air conditioning. Pandemics. Jersey manufacturers. All of it is.

Okay, now that we can stop saying obvious things, let's move on.

Injuries do not define a career when you have years and years of proof as to a player's ability. Butler is great whether he wins a ring or not. Same with Chris Paul. John Stockton. Charles Barkley. James Harden. Karl Malone. You get the point?

Was LeBron "worse" in 2014 vs the Spurs and better in 2013 vs the Spurs? OR...Was Wade just injured in 2014.

Are you saying LeBron's legacy is based on Wade's ability to keep his knee straight? Or was he already good regardless of Wade's knee? Does LeBron's greatness hinge on Wade's knee?

[Bronbron23]

"Injuries are part of the game." Oh yeah? They are? :lol Thanks, didn't know that...Like WTF does that even mean?

Everything is part of the game. EVERYTHING. Politics. The weather (See Dallas leak). Faulty air conditioning. Pandemics. Jersey manufacturers. All of it is.

Okay, now that we can stop saying obvious things, let's move on.

Injuries do not define a career when you have years and years of proof as to a player's ability. Butler is great whether he wins a ring or not. Same with Chris Paul. John Stockton. Charles Barkley. James Harden. Karl Malone. You get the point?

Was LeBron "worse" in 2014 vs the Spurs and better in 2013 vs the Spurs? OR...Was Wade just injured in 2014.

Are you saying LeBron's legacy is based on Wade's ability to keep his knee straight? Or was he already good regardless of Wade's knee? Does LeBron's greatness hinge on Wade's knee?

No dude what I mean is injuries happen to all the time. Some big ones some small ones but it's so often that it's not a good excuse for losing or winning in relation to a players career because every player and team deals with it.

That said if you wanna put Butler up there with those guys that's fine. I was thinking you were talking more along the lines of him being up there be with the MJ, Bron and Greeks of f the game.

[Shooter]

No dude what I mean is injuries happen to all the time. Some big ones some small ones but it's so often that it's not a good excuse for losing or winning in relation to a players career because every player and team deals with it.

That said if you wanna put Butler up there with those guys that's fine. I was thinking you were talking more along the lines of him being up there be with the MJ, Bron and Greeks of f the game.

Let's slow down, you're rambling at this point. You said Butler's legacy is predicated on winning a ring. I said that's dumb because we have 10 years of his career to look at and Curry's health for one year (2022) should not determine Butler's legacy. If Curry gets injured does that make Butler better? Because he'd win a ring if that happened.

[ImKobe]

Peaked in what sense? MJ was 30 in 1993, Kobe in 2008. I don't think either were better after 30 than they were before. Mayyyyyybe you can stretch it to 2009 for Kobe and even then he was 30/31, right on the line. But you're a Kobe guy, would you take any version of Kobe from 30 onwards over 2006, or 2003? At least with Lebron, there's an argument his offensive peak was 2018( at 33) but as an overall player( offensively, defensively, mentally) he peaked in 2013.

Idk, Kobe in 2010 was just as good as '09 IMO, especially in the WC Playoffs, though he did play on one leg, but you could argue that 2010 WCF was as good as Kobe ever played in a Playoff series

[Bronbron23]

Let's slow down, you're rambling at this point. You said Butler's legacy is predicated on winning a ring. I said that's dumb because we have 10 years of his career to look at and Curry's health for one year (2022) should not determine Butler's legacy. If Curry gets injured does that make Butler better? Because he'd win a ring if that happened.

Yes of course his legacy is impacted by a ring.what Good player isn't dude?

And yes if curry gets hurt and Butler wins a ring it will boost his legacy. Weather or not I agree with that is irrelevant. All we have to go by is chips, stats, accolades and eye test. All 4 are flawed but that's we have. I can at least acknowledge the chip factor isn't by itself a great measurement but neither is stats dude.

[Full Court]

Yes of course his legacy is impacted by a ring.what Good player isn't dude?

And yes if curry gets hurt and Butler wins a ring it will boost his legacy. Weather or not I agree with that is irrelevant. All we have to go by is chips, stats, accolades and eye test. All 4 are flawed but that's we have. I can at least acknowledge the chip factor isn't by itself a great measurement but neither is stats dude.

Dude, you're trying to use logic with one of the dumbest posters on ISH.

[Shooter]

Yes of course his legacy is impacted by a ring.what Good player isn't dude?

And yes if curry gets hurt and Butler wins a ring it will boost his legacy. Weather or not I agree with that is irrelevant. All we have to go by is chips, stats, accolades and eye test. All 4 are flawed but that's we have. I can at least acknowledge the chip factor isn't by itself a great measurement but neither is stats dude.

So at least you admit your criteria is heavily flawed. I don't think Butler's legacy hinges on another player's health. It doesn't even make sense...Butler already is great.

[Bronbron23]

So at least you admit your criteria is heavily flawed. I don't think Butler's legacy hinges on another player's health. It doesn't even make sense...Butler already is great.
No my logic isn't flawed at all. Rings, stats accolades and eye test are the measurements. All are important factors but all are Flawed. Including stats. Get it?

[Shooter]

No my logic isn't flawed at all. Rings, stats accolades and eye test are the measurements. All are important factors but all are Flawed. Including stats. Get it?

But you said he needs to win a ring to boost his legacy...Right? What about if he has another killer series like 2020 but loses to an all-time player. Would that ALSO help his legacy? :pimp:

[Bronbron23]

Dude, you're trying to use logic with one of the dumbest posters on ISH.

Yeah dude is hilarious. I'm trying to be a good Samaritan and help the guy not sound so retarded but I think it's a lost cause.

[Shooter]

Yeah dude is hilarious. I'm trying to be a good Samaritan and help the guy not sound so retarded but I think it's a lost cause.

You took the words right out of my mouth chico.

[red1]

not crazy at all. butler is a G.


his bulls snapped the 27-game win streak that prime wade and lebron were on in 2013 and his defense was a huge part of it. he doesnt have the size of the all-time players but he's definitely top-tier for heart. got that dawg in him.

[hold this L]

Not crazy relevant but.. why did Jimmy have such a bad PS last year? He was amazing in 2020 and this PS, but he was a completely different player then. Was he injured a year ago?

[Axe]

Jimmy butler is better than Chris Paul. Especially in the playoffs.
But he's already lost a finals. So that only means his legacy is tainted forever.

[Shooter]

But he's already lost a finals. So that only means his legacy is tainted forever.
:lol

Yep! Shoulda had a 1st round Jordan sweep instead :roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

If Butler loses in the Finals AGAIN his legacy will be forever ruined.

As we all know, getting to the Finals and losing is a whole lot worse then not even getting to the Finals to begin with.

Jimmy better be careful because going 0-2 is going to poison his career and longtime reputation.

[Shooter]

If Butler loses in the Finals AGAIN his legacy will be forever ruined.

As we all know, getting to the Finals and losing is a whole lot worse then not even getting to the Finals to begin with.

Jimmy better be careful because going 0-2 is going to poison his career and longtime reputation.

+1

He needs to lose game 7 in order to save his Legacy

[Xiao Yao You]

unlike most guys he's in the worst era for his skillset too. He's not a great 3 point shooter. Would have been better in any other era

[beasted]

No to Barkley/Malone comparisons due to MVP and consecutive 1st team appearances.

Yes to Drexler comparisons easily who's in that top 50-60 rank. If he somehow wills Miami to a title win he's a lock to be over Drexler, CP3, etc. Will probably elevate him into that top 40.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I have him above curry easily. Curry couldn't do what Butler is doing with the Heat. They're lottery every year with curry in his place

Crazy how many guys rank players based on luck/circumstances and not ability. It's just laziness.

[beasted]

If Butler loses in the Finals AGAIN his legacy will be forever ruined.

As we all know, getting to the Finals and losing is a whole lot worse then not even getting to the Finals to begin with.

Jimmy better be careful because going 0-2 is going to poison his career and longtime reputation.

Stupid agenda-driven take. You should like a triggered lil dickhead.

Finals appearances as the best player help all-time ranking. But losing in the Finals doesn't propel you higher than comparable players with more wins and less appearances.

It's the reason nobody has Jerry West in their top 4. Following your flawed logic, based on his stats + appearances he would easily fall there.

Regardless of this sidebar, there are levels to this shit. There's different standards when discussing guys in the top 3-5 guys. That's totally irrelevant to Butler. He's not in the vicinity of that conversation. Him advancing to the Finals helps vs where he's currently ranked.

[FireDavidKahn]

Stupid agenda-driven take. You should like a triggered lil dickhead.

Finals appearances as the best player help all-time ranking. But losing in the Finals doesn't propel you higher than comparable players with more wins and less appearances.

It's the reason nobody has Jerry West in their top 4. Following your flawed logic, based on his stats + appearances he would easily fall there.

Regardless of this sidebar, there are levels to this shit. There's different standards when discussing guys in the top 3-5 guys. That's totally irrelevant to Butler. He's not in the vicinity of that conversation. Him advancing to the Finals helps vs where he's currently ranked.

Clearly the joke is over your head.

That argument is what LeHaters In a very serious (as in they aren't joking) way. They'd rather him have lost before the Finals then get to the Finals and lose

[TheGoatest]

:lol

Yep! Shoulda had a 1st round Jordan sweep instead :roll:

Make that back-to-back 1st round sweeps to the same team in 1986 and 1987. :oldlol:
It would've looked so much worse for jordon's legacy had he carried those Bulls to the finals and lost there, instead of getting swept in the first round. :roll:

[HALLandOATES]

jimmy is in the convo for best player when he’s scoring 28,29 a game with his defense, leadership ect., This thing is though he isn’t like this in the regular season and that matters to an extent in all time ranking .

He’s not aggressive enough in the regular season to raise his stock in the average persons eyes .

He’ll be somewhere in the top 50-75 when it’s said and done to most people .I have him in my top 30, top 25 if he gets to the finals again and if he wins maybe even top 20,that’s how much winning matters

[John8204]

I think Jimmy's definitely in the starting five of underated players, guys that could have 5-6 time champions had they been in a different situation

C - Nate Thurmond
PG - Tiny Archibald
SG - Pete Maravich
PF - Dolph Schayes
SF - Jimmy Butler

[Xiao Yao You]

I think Jimmy's definitely in the starting five of underated players, guys that could have 5-6 time champions had they been in a different situation

C - Nate Thurmond
PG - Tiny Archibald
SG - Pete Maravich
PF - Dolph Schayes
SF - Jimmy Butler

Maravich couldn't lead the Jazz to a .500 record

[Shooter]

Make that back-to-back 1st round sweeps to the same team in 1986 and 1987. :oldlol:
It would've looked so much worse for jordon's legacy had he carried those Bulls to the finals and lost there, instead of getting swept in the first round. :roll:

Jesus :lol What a scam artist MJ was :lol

[dankok8]

Most top 50 players are guys who have MVP's and/or major statistical achievements. Butler's ceiling is a top 75 player. He's one of my favorite players in the NBA but let's pump the brakes. He isn't ever getting in the top 30/40. That just isn't happening.

[Jasper]

Jimmy doesn’t get the credit he should (he is unbelievable) because he’s played on a million teams. He needs to finish with the Heat. He will go down as an all time player. He’s on par with Barkley to me

he is no where near Barkley(.)

Butler is a 2nd option player at best , I don't care if he scores 20 or 45.

[DMAVS41]

He's a really really really good player, but he does not deserve comparisons to Barkley and Malone. He has not proven to be that caliber of a player.

[PeroAntic]

lol people are STILL underrating him. Jimmy Butler is too much for some to wrap their minds around.

[RRR3]

he is no where near Barkley(.)

Butler is a 2nd option player at best , I don't care if he scores 20 or 45.
A second option who has led a team to the finals as a first option and is possibly about to do it again? Sure :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

He's a really really really good player, but he does not deserve comparisons to Barkley and Malone. He has not proven to be that caliber of a player.

this.

[ArbitraryWater]

He took the worst finals team ever to the finals in 2020...but everything was so off kilter in the bubble, that you can't really rank it the same way you would in a normal season.

damn, now he took the worst team ever to the finals again!


he must be the goat?