Houston James Harden vs. Miami Jimmy Butler

[Im Still Ballin]

This may seem like a stupid question, but hear me out. Is there an argument for Jimmy Butler? Perhaps on the basis of defense and a more 'playoff-suited' game?

Let's hear your thoughts.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Harden might get underrated because of his style and baits but he was really good. Butler is slightly better though.

[Im Still Ballin]

For comparison:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 PPG / 5.6 RPG / 7.3 APG / 1.9 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 4.4 TOPG
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 23.3 PPG / 6.9 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.0 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 2.2 TOPG
- 59.0% TS
- +7.5 BPM
- 24.8 PER
- 41 games played

[SATAN]

Harden was being called the best offensive player ever at one point. Jimmy is good but being overrated over the last 24 hours.

I kept thinking about this and editing my reply but ultimately ended up deleting it. The comparison is stupid.

Prime Harden was a ****ing beast. No matter how much anyone dislikes him. It depends how you rate players. Butler is a better team player.

[post]

one guy is an mvp another is all nba third team

hardly the holy grail method of comparison but perhaps means something

[HylianNightmare]

Prime harden

[SouBeachTalents]

The disparity between the two of them in the regular season is so massive, it’d be like trying to compare Jokic and Siakm. It’s as decisive an advantage as one player could have over another.

And even if his playoff numbers look elite on paper and better than Butler’s, Harden really might be the most disappointing playoff performer ever, or in terms of superstar players, at minimum in the bottom 5. Downplay it due to the bubble, but Butler had literally 2 of the greatest Finals performances ever 2 years ago, going toe to toe with LeBron, and just carried the Heat last night with another ATG performance with their season and a trip to the Finals on the line.

Harden has simply never come through for his team like that, and 13 years into his career he doesn’t have a single memorable playoff performance, and more often than not gets worse the bigger the game & series gets.

I 100% get why someone would pick Harden, but how you perform in critical games is extremely important to me, and when it comes to that, I can’t imagine anybody picking Harden over Butler.

[Shooter]

Like SouBeach mentioned it's a very tough comparison because Harden balls out in the regular season whereas maybe Butler saves himself for the Playoffs?

Butler has never had a regular season like Harden and Harden has never had a playoff series or playoff run like Butler has (2020 and now 2022).

It's oddly very hard to compare them.

[1987_Lakers]

I mean, no doubt Butler has more intangibles and is a better big game performer, but strictly comparing them as basketball players? Harden was better.

[Shooter]

I mean, no doubt Butler has more intangibles and is a better big game performer, but strictly comparing them as basketball players? Harden was better.

It's hard to overlook an MVP, Assist Title, and Scoring Title over an 82-game stretch.

[Im Still Ballin]

The disparity between the two of them in the regular season is so massive, it’d be like trying to compare Jokic and Siakm. It’s as decisive an advantage as one player could have over another.

And even if his playoff numbers look elite on paper and better than Butler’s, Harden really might be the most disappointing playoff performer ever, or in terms of superstar players, at minimum in the bottom 5. Downplay it due to the bubble, but Butler had literally 2 of the greatest Finals performances ever 2 years ago, going toe to toe with LeBron, and just carried the Heat last night with another ATG performance with their season and a trip to the Finals on the line.

Harden has simply never come through for his team like that, and 13 years into his career he doesn’t have a single memorable playoff performance, and more often than not gets worse the bigger the game & series gets.

I 100% get why someone would pick Harden, but how you perform in critical games is extremely important to me, and when it comes to that, I can’t imagine anybody picking Harden over Butler.

Well said.

Both teams have some solid playoff scalps:

James Harden in Houston:

- Beat Dallas in '15
- Beat Clippers in '15
- Beat OKC in '17
- Beat Minny in '18
- Beat Utah in '18
- Beat Utah in '19
- Beat OKC in '20

Jimmy Butler in Miami:

- Beat Indiana in '20
- Beat Milwaukee in '20
- Beat Boston in '20
- Beat Atlanta in '22
- Beat Philly in '22
- Might beat Boston in '22

[red1]

Jimmy Butler


hands down

[L.Kizzle]

I'm not even a Harden fan when he played here in Houston, but James is the answer.
Harden possibly can't handle the pressure while there is really no pressure on Jimmy Butler. None. Not saying that it matter.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm not even a Harden fan when he played here in Houston, but James is the answer.
Harden possibly can't handle the pressure while there is really no pressure on Jimmy Butler. None. Not saying that it matter.

I picked Harden, but Butler has become your new McHale. lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Well said.

You can't even say Houston has faced stiffer competition in the postseason. Both teams have some solid playoff scalps:

James Harden in Houston:

- Beat Clippers in '15
- Beat OKC in '17
- Beat Minny in '18
- Beat Utah in '18
- Beat Utah in '19
- Beat OKC in '20

Jimmy Butler in Miami:

- Beat Indiana in '20
- Beat Milwaukee in '20
- Beat Boston in '20
- Beat Atlanta in '22
- Beat Philly in '22
- Might beat Boston in '22

I think beating Milwaukee is the top scalp, and Boston in '20 is the second best. Beating LAC in '15 could be argued as #2, but James really didn't do much that round.
I'm honestly not that impressed with most of those teams :lol I'd agree the Bucks is the most impressive win, but Giannis did miss nearly 2 games in that series. I'd also agree you could probably argue the Clippers #2, but Harden was infamously left on the bench when the Rockets made their season saving comeback in Game 6. CP3 also missed the first 2 games of that series.

[red1]

I'm not even a Harden fan when he played here in Houston, but James is the answer.
Harden possibly can't handle the pressure while there is really no pressure on Jimmy Butler. None. Not saying that it matter.

true butler would get annihilated by those warriors - harden never had a fair shake against those KD teams but the difference is that butler would be an elite defender while carrying the scoring load so he might've tipped the scales when the warriors were struggling to score, making it that much harder for them.


thats a HUGE advantage because even though harden is the best playmaking shooting guard in the league, defending other stars is a MUCH bigger part of the game IMO.

[red1]

the reason every nba guard and forward respects butler is because they know how hard it is to score on him

[jayfan]

I have no use for any version of James Harden.


.

[Bronbron23]

This may seem like a stupid question, but hear me out. Is there an argument for Jimmy Butler? Perhaps on the basis of defense and a more 'playoff-suited' game?

Let's hear your thoughts.

Yes defense is half the game. Offensively they're close when it comes to the post season at least. Defensively it's not close at all.

[L.Kizzle]

I picked Harden, but Butler has become your new McHale. lol
I actually like Butler lol.

[Manny98]

I'd take Butler 10/10 because championships are not won in the regular season

[PeroAntic]

Harden isn't fit to polish Butler's shoes.

[FKAri]

Harden for a longer stretch. Butler for short, load managed bursts.
Butler can score on tougher defenses but he can't walk into 30 points on the regular vs lax defense like Harden could. Defensively, it's definitely Butler tho.
Harden can carry a team better. Butler can elevate a team better. So it depends what the rest of the roster looks like and what's the goal for the team.

[ArbitraryWater]

Harden might get underrated because of his style and baits but he was really good. Butler is slightly better though.


:oldlol:

[Axe]

Both butler and harden are 0-1 in the finals.

[Im Still Ballin]

Will another legendary playoff run sway anyone?

[Im Still Ballin]

For comparison:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 PPG / 5.6 RPG / 7.3 APG / 1.9 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 4.4 TOPG
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 23.3 PPG / 6.9 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.0 SPG / 0.6 BPG / 2.2 TOPG
- 59.0% TS
- +7.5 BPM
- 24.8 PER
- 41 games played

Updated stats:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 ppg / 5.6 rpg / 7.3 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 4.4 topg
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 24.7 ppg / 6.8 rpg / 5.5 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 2.2 topg
- 60.4% TS
- +7.9 BPM
- 25.9 PER
- 46 games played

[John8204]

Will another legendary playoff run sway anyone?

Butler wasn't top 75 going into this season while Harden was top 50. Even though I like this guy a hell of a lot more than many players that are better than him he hasn't passed Harden up yet.

Russ on the other hand, I'm pretty confident to say another playoff run has put him well ahead of Russ.

[Phoenix]

Peak Harden's game clearly leveraged how the game has been called in the regular season for several years now. Butler's game has never been dependent on that, and because refs call it different in the playoffs Jimmy Buckets holds up better in that context.

[Full Court]

Harden was being called the best offensive player ever at one point. Jimmy is good but being overrated over the last 24 hours.

I kept thinking about this and editing my reply but ultimately ended up deleting it. The comparison is stupid.

Prime Harden was a ****ing beast. No matter how much anyone dislikes him. It depends how you rate players. Butler is a better team player.

Which is the only thing that matters. Because guess what, it's a TEAM SPORT.

The stupidity of this idiot never ceases to amaze me. :lol

[Nike D'Antoni]

Interesting

[kawhileonard2]

This may seem like a stupid question, but hear me out. Is there an argument for Jimmy Butler? Perhaps on the basis of defense and a more 'playoff-suited' game?

Let's hear your thoughts.

Harden for sure.

[PeroAntic]

Harden for sure.

:roll:

[HoopsNY]

Harden isn't fit to polish Butler's shoes.

Agreed; I'm surprised so many people are choosing Harden.

[HoopsNY]

Peak Harden's game clearly leveraged how the game has been called in the regular season for several years now. Butler's game has never been dependent on that, and because refs call it different in the playoffs Jimmy Buckets holds up better in that context.

Very good point

[Im Still Ballin]

Updated stats:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 ppg / 5.6 rpg / 7.3 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 4.4 topg
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 24.7 ppg / 6.8 rpg / 5.5 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 2.2 topg
- 60.4% TS
- +7.9 BPM
- 25.9 PER
- 46 games played

Updated stats:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 ppg / 5.6 rpg / 7.3 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 4.4 topg
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 25.2 ppg / 6.8 rpg / 5.5 apg / 2.0 spg / 0.6 bpg / 2.2 topg
- 59.7% TS
- +7.7 BPM
- 25.6 PER
- 53 games played

[iamgine]

Butler has been going nuclear in the past 2 playoffs. He had never even been close to this good before.

[SouBeachTalents]

Butler has been going nuclear in the past 2 playoffs. He had never even been close to this good before.
Yep, he definitely never came close to this level of play in the Finals or anything.

[PeroAntic]

Updated stats:

James Harden Houston Playoffs:

- 28.6 ppg / 5.6 rpg / 7.3 apg / 1.9 spg / 0.6 bpg / 4.4 topg
- 57.8% TS
- +7.6 BPM
- 24.0 PER
- 85 games played

Jimmy Butler Miami Playoffs:

- 25.2 ppg / 6.8 rpg / 5.5 apg / 2.0 spg / 0.6 bpg / 2.2 topg
- 59.7% TS
- +7.7 BPM
- 25.6 PER
- 53 games played

Stats don't capture the difference. The way Jimmy involves his teammates within the flow of the game and anchors them defensively is beyond anything Harden can do with his stats.

[John8204]

Which is the only thing that matters. Because guess what, it's a TEAM SPORT.

The stupidity of this idiot never ceases to amaze me. :lol

And then you voted for Kobe over Lebron

Anyways...Butler is making a good case against Harden if he wins a title as an 8....I'm not just putting Butler over Russ, Harden....I'm looking at Durant