Luka was exposed, so it's funny that we ever thought a dumb ball-dominator....

[3ba11]

like Luka or Lebron could f*ck with Michael Jordan.

Their big man ball-dominance has the worst teammate fits, chemistry, and brand of ball, so they can't win organically and are forced to be talent-based winners (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)

It's funny because this is Luka's peak with Dallas just like Lebron's Cavs peaked in 07' and went downhill every year thereafter.. These are one-off runs with no real brand of ball to build upon and develop teammates or chemistry

[red1]

there's only one style of play proven to defeat 70-win teams



hint.... it wasn't phil jackson's triangle


https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif

[3ba11]

there's only one style of play proven to defeat 70-win teams



hint.... it wasn't phil jackson's triangle


https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif


^^^ copying Jordan with the suit and later he'll bust out the cigar and powder clap - he's a failed copycat of the original (MJ).. No 6 chips or 3-peat for Lebron

And I guess Baron Davis or Dwight are better than Jordan since they beat 67-win teams and Jordan didn't

[red1]

67 does not equal 70




there's only one


https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif

[1987_Lakers]

5 years later...."Luka is top 5, he proved me wrong, when has Bron ever proved me wrong?"

[3ba11]

5 years later...."Luka is top 5, he proved me wrong, when has Bron ever proved me wrong?"


If Luka wins by forming super-teams and teaming up with conference rivals like Booker and Jokic (ruining the conference), then he won't prove anything and will prove me RIGHT like Lebron did.. because that's what Lebron did - he manufactured a fake resume by decimating his conference via collusions

But if Luka wins organically, then he will only prove me wrong if he wins without becoming an assist target or good defender - because I've stated that he can win organically if he does those things (becomes assist target and defender)

[Spurs m8]

I mean, look at the talent the Warriors squad has compared to the Mavs squad.

Luka took them to the WCF and got beaten by a team that's WAY more stacked and experienced.

I agree with you to an extent, Luka is no LeFraud though

[red1]

5 years later...."Luka is top 5, he proved me wrong, when has Bron ever proved me wrong?"

I think OP's hate for luka is going to start very soon... luka is a big fat boy and he knows how to exploit guards - he's going to feast on 6-3 midget point guards for years...



OP is going to start really hating very soon...

[coin24]

there's only one style of play proven to defeat 70-win teams



hint.... it wasn't phil jackson's triangle


https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif


Kyrie ?

[red1]

Kyrie ?

the knee has been bent

kyrie himself: "if I wasnt such a bitch we would've won more rings together"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6WlB6MEPE&ab_channel=ESPN

https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif

[3ba11]

I mean, look at the talent the Warriors squad has compared to the Mavs squad.

Luka took them to the WCF and got beaten by a team that's WAY more stacked and experienced.

I agree with you to an extent, Luka is no LeFraud though


Let's take Wiggins off the Warriors and put him on the Mavs - Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does that for the Warriors because he looks good in their brand of ball... :confusedshrug:

Otoh, Luka would make him look shitty so you would say his cast is shitty.. Brunson is probably an all-star without Luka and who knows how good Finney-Smith or Dinwiddie are in a good brand of ball

Teammates play better with good chemistry and brand of ball - unfortunately, Luka is literally woat at these things

[red1]

kyrie already owes lebron a ring for going down in the 2015 finals.


IMO that's already lebron's 5th ring, second ring for cleveland.

[3ba11]

kyrie already owes lebron a ring for going down in the 2015 finals.


IMO that's already lebron's 5th ring, second ring for cleveland.


Dray was suspended in 16' and the Warriors were hurt with Curry, Iggy and Bogut

So it all evened out... 1-1 is fair for 15' and 16'

[red1]

Dray was suspended in 16' and the Warriors were hurt with Curry, Iggy and Bogut

So it all evened out... 1-1 is fair for 15' and 16'

jordan never beat a single team as good as the 13 spurs and 16 warriors

I rewatched some of the 90s finals recently

announcers deservedly praising mj before he even touches the ball. lebron is better.

[red1]

I consider it 2-0 for 15 and 16.


best player in both series.

[red1]

not everyone plays with pippen and grant, who were never hurt in a single series.

[Shooter]

there's only one style of play proven to defeat 70-win teams



hint.... it wasn't phil jackson's triangle


https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif

[red1]

https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif

[3ba11]

jordan never beat a single team as good as the 13 spurs and 16 warriors

I rewatched some of the 90s finals recently

announcers deservedly praising mj before he even touches the ball. lebron is better.


Lebron catches the ball and starts holding it.. waiting... surveying.. the easy way

Otoh, when MJ caught the ball it was an EVENT because there was a certain panicked, frenetic way that he played where you knew something was going to happen right away

[red1]

Lebron catches the ball and starts holding it.. waiting... surveying.. the easy way

Otoh, when MJ caught the ball it was an EVENT because there was a certain panicked, frenetic way that he played where you knew something was going to happen right away

my guy all you do is hate.


if I was to hate on mj the way that you hate, you wouldnt even find it fun posting anymore... jordan is literally a degenerate human being who benefited from beating up on inferior competition... that's very literal...

[3ba11]

benefited from beating up on inferior competition... that's very literal...


Everyone is inferior competition for Jordan - that's the point

Tatum just ragdolled Durant with 90's style defense, so what would Jordan do?

And Lebron has been locked down so many times it's ridiculous, such as the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, 10' ECSF, 11' Finals, 16' Eastern Playoffs, 13' ECSF, 21' Playoffs, 14' Finals, and more

Otoh, Jordan's worst series was Lebron's career average of 27 ppg (3 series), otherwise he never got below 30 except 2 other series at 29

[Axe]

not everyone plays with pippen and grant, who were never hurt in a single series.
This is outright dumb. If pippen was never hurt in the 1998 finals, he would have been the finals mvp instead of jordan.

At least get your goddamn facts straight for once, rajeet. Pfft.

[NBAGOAT]

Let's take Wiggins off the Warriors and put him on the Mavs - Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does that for the Warriors because he looks good in their brand of ball... :confusedshrug:

Otoh, Luka would make him look shitty so you would say his cast is shitty.. Brunson is probably an all-star without Luka and who knows how good Finney-Smith or Dinwiddie are in a good brand of ball

Teammates play better with good chemistry and brand of ball - unfortunately, Luka is literally woat at these things

that would help the series balance quite a bit but the other reason wiggins looks good is because he's a 4th option asked to mainly focus on defense and make some open shots and bail out the offense a bit. Luka wouldnt make him look shitty, they have a good defensive culture and he be 3rd or 4th in terms of scoring volume depending on dinwiddie. He looked shitty in minnesota when he was younger, asked to be a 2nd option, and the coaching was awful.

Finney-smith is very good but a 3nD guy, he's not developing much more anywhere else. We saw dinwiddie on another team, he was absolutely awful in washington. He's a bit of a chucker and not an off ball guy either so wouldnt fit the warriors(kind of like your favorite player oubre)

[DMAVS41]

Let's take Wiggins off the Warriors and put him on the Mavs - Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does that for the Warriors because he looks good in their brand of ball... :confusedshrug:

Otoh, Luka would make him look shitty so you would say his cast is shitty.. Brunson is probably an all-star without Luka and who knows how good Finney-Smith or Dinwiddie are in a good brand of ball

Teammates play better with good chemistry and brand of ball - unfortunately, Luka is literally woat at these things

Who knows how good Dinwiddie is?

Maybe we could just look at his career. He's an inconsistent and inefficient scoring guard that doesn't play good defense....he might have value in a role similar to what he played on the Mavs, but we know how good he is...and for winning in the playoffs...his game offers limited value to date in his career.

[DMAVS41]

that would help the series balance quite a bit but the other reason wiggins looks good is because he's a 4th option asked to mainly focus on defense and make some open shots and bail out the offense a bit. Luka wouldnt make him look shitty, they have a good defensive culture and he be 3rd or 4th in terms of scoring volume depending on dinwiddie. He looked shitty in minnesota when he was younger, asked to be a 2nd option, and the coaching was awful.

Finney-smith is very good but a 3nD guy, he's not developing much more anywhere else. We saw dinwiddie on another team, he was absolutely awful in washington. He's a bit of a chucker and not an off ball guy either so wouldnt fit the warriors(kind of like your favorite player oubre)

The improved version of Wiggins that finally cut out the long 2's and actually gives effort...is not going to be made to look shitty by having to play off the ball...hell, he'd fit right in on the Mavericks as the 3rd or 4th guy on offense depending on rotations.

[tpols]

Who knows how good Dinwiddie is?

Maybe we could just look at his career. He's an inconsistent and inefficient scoring guard that doesn't play good defense....he might have value in a role similar to what he played on the Mavs, but we know how good he is...and for winning in the playoffs...his game offers limited value to date in his career.

Spencer Dinwiddie shot on 62 TS in the regular season and 69 TS in the playoffs vs Golden State. Why are you lying?

He's had absolutely elite efficiency with Dallas and the facts show that. He had the highest ORTG in the Mavs last series vs a tough defense. Why are you telling blatant lies?

[8Ball]

5 years later...."Luka is top 5, he proved me wrong, when has Bron ever proved me wrong?"

No. 12 months later :lol

[DMAVS41]

Spencer Dinwiddie shot on 62 TS in the regular season and 69 TS in the playoffs vs Golden State. Why are you lying?

He's had absolutely elite efficiency with Dallas and the facts show that. He had the highest ORTG in the Mavs last series vs a tough defense. Why are you telling blatant lies?

One run or series does not change what he has been. Lying? He's a career 54% TS player...that isn't good enough when you offer little else.

Not to mention that he shot 48% TS against the Jazz.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Spencer Dinwiddie shot on 62 TS in the regular season and 69 TS in the playoffs vs Golden State. Why are you lying?

He's had absolutely elite efficiency with Dallas and the facts show that. He had the highest ORTG in the Mavs last series vs a tough defense. Why are you telling blatant lies?

Poole put up 22 on 62% TS as a 21 year old rookie without curry.

This year he put up 26/6/5 on 64% TS... WITHOUT CURRY. Those are Booker aka 1st team all NBA numbers

Warriors have 4 guys who shoot over 36% from 3. It's the most stacked team in the league by far

[tpols]

One run or series does not change what he has been. Lying? He's a career 54% TS player...that isn't good enough when you offer little else.

Not to mention that he shot 48% TS against the Jazz.

For the entire compass of time dinwiddie has spent with the Mavs he has on average shot 60+TS.

So yes that makes you a liar. If a guy performs directly the opposite as how you describe him, that means you lied about him.

[DMAVS41]

For the entire compass of time dinwiddie has spent with the Mavs he has on average shot 60+TS.

So yes that makes you a liar. If a guy performs directly the opposite as how you describe him, that means you lied about him.

No, it doesn't...as has been explained to you.

[3ba11]

Who knows how good Dinwiddie is?

Maybe we could just look at his career. He's an inconsistent and inefficient scoring guard that doesn't play good defense....he might have value in a role similar to what he played on the Mavs, but we know how good he is...and for winning in the playoffs...his game offers limited value to date in his career.


You ignored my main point about Wiggins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504781-Luka-was-exposed-so-it-s-funny-that-we-ever-thought-a-dumb-ball-dominator&p=14610082&viewfull=1#post14610082) and focused on a non-point about Dinwiddie

The reality is that Wiggins is a long-time veteran but ONLY CURRY made him look great.. Players look better in a good brand of ball..

You would be calling Wiggins a bum alongside Luka just like Pippen was a bum outside the triangle

Again, Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does for the Warriors because he looks better in a good brand of ball

[StrongLurk]

You ignored my main point about Wiggins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504781-Luka-was-exposed-so-it-s-funny-that-we-ever-thought-a-dumb-ball-dominator&p=14610082&viewfull=1#post14610082) and focused on a non-point about Dinwiddie

The reality is that Wiggins is a long-time veteran but ONLY CURRY made him look great.. Players look better in a good brand of ball..

You would be calling Wiggins a bum alongside Luka just like Pippen was a bum outside the triangle

Again, Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does for the Warriors because he looks better in a good brand of ball

Wiggins is the exact same player he's always been...he hasn't improved being on the Warriors.

[DMAVS41]

You ignored my main point about Wiggins (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504781-Luka-was-exposed-so-it-s-funny-that-we-ever-thought-a-dumb-ball-dominator&p=14610082&viewfull=1#post14610082) and focused on a non-point about Dinwiddie

The reality is that Wiggins is a long-time veteran but ONLY CURRY made him look great.. Players look better in a good brand of ball..

You would be calling Wiggins a bum alongside Luka just like Pippen was a bum outside the triangle

Again, Wiggins wouldn't make the Mavs "talented" but he does for the Warriors because he looks better in a good brand of ball

There is no doubt Wiggins has improved quite a bit on the Warriors. However, he started transforming his game, especially offensively, before he was traded. Would he be willing to defend and give full effort on the Mavs? Obviously we don't know that answer, but I don't see why he wouldn't as he clearly realized he was playing the wrong way.

Wouldn't make the Mavs more talented? Yes he would. He was the first pick in the draft for a reason...he's super talented. Have no idea what you are talking about...and neither do you.

[bdonovan]

Luka

* Takes too long to set up the offense; the shot-clock is winding down before anything is setup. I'm watching Game 4 rt now; sample play: Luka slowly dribbles up court, parks at the perimeter, dribbles in place for a few seconds, then calls for a screen, tries driving, can't, passes to a corner teammate with 10 seconds left. The pass is not to someone who was entirely freed up; he has a man on him and misses.

Meanwhile, on the other end the Warriors are in constant motion with many options for open shots. Due to a slow offense, Luka's teammates don't have much they can do with the ball when Luka passes because he can't score.

* Needs to be a more thoughtful passer; and less Harden-like of trying to score but otherwise dumping it on someone else. He is not entirely Harden-like; he seems to have the court vision and ability to make a great pass but puts too much emphasis on score-first.

* Gets a lot of assists but much of that is due to ball-dominance

* Needs to improve as a team player. In the few cases Brunson brought the ball up and perhaps looking to get something to Luka off the ball, Luka just stands next to Brunson demanding the ball. You can see from Brunson's reaction, he's expecting the team to fan out and looking for other options- but Luka's refusal to space means he has to give it to him. Contrast this to Steph's off-ball effectiveness. Luka needs to let the game come to him instead of assuming everything has to happen with him with the ball at the perimeter and starting the offense there.

Team offense is a lot more than one person hogging the ball and trying to score, else dumping.

[3ba11]

There is no doubt Wiggins has improved quite a bit on the Warriors. However, he started transforming his game, especially offensively, before he was traded. Would he be willing to defend and give full effort on the Mavs? Obviously we don't know that answer, but I don't see why he wouldn't as he clearly realized he was playing the wrong way.

Wouldn't make the Mavs more talented? Yes he would. He was the first pick in the draft for a reason...he's super talented. Have no idea what you are talking about...and neither do you.


Wiggins was a laughing stock before joining Steph so you're just ignoring the point being made - it's actually a SKILL-BASED point about Luka and Steph:

Steph's skillset yields a great brand of ball that turns perennial losers like Wiggins into champions, while Luka's skillset yields a garbage brand that makes Wiggins or Porzingas look underwhelming offensively and unmotivated defensively

Stop deflecting these obvious points

[1987_Lakers]

Wiggins was a laughing stock before joining Steph so you're just ignoring the point being made - it's actually a SKILL-BASED point about Luka and Steph:


Oubre was a laughing stock with Curry.

[3ba11]

Oubre was a laughing stock with Curry.


So was Pippen for several years

Chemistry takes time and requires the right skillset from the star to ALLOW a good brand.. Curry and MJ were good enough to produce without ball-dominance, which allowed a good brand

[1987_Lakers]

So was Pippen for several years

Only in your mind.

[3ba11]

Only in your mind.



* Pippen averaged 8 ppg as a rookie

* 14 ppg as a sophomore and 9 on 40% in the ECF

* Year 3 migraine and 16 on 42% in ECF


You guys are so focused on your 3ball hate that you're ignoring obvious facts

Again, chemistry takes time and requires the right skillset from the star to ALLOW a good brand.. Curry and MJ were good enough to produce without ball-dominance, which allowed a good brand

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

[3ba11]

1-9

1-9 against championship comp before Pippen

1-4 with rookie Pippen, so basically the same

2-4 with sophomore Pippen

So no improvement with Pippen - the difference was improving chemistry and BRAND OF BALL (triangle)

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

[3ba11]

1-9


^^^ that's better than Lebron's lottery in 04', 05', 19', and 22'

He had all-star teammates every year too except when he stalled Ingram in 19'

And 8 seeds always lose, except twice in history... So consider that Lebron only had high seeds his entire career and the first time he had a low seed (2021), he lost in 1st Round.

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

No Pip, No Chip.

[3ba11]

1-9

No Pip, No Chip.



FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


^^^ so Pippen was trash and it's amazing that MJ won 6 Finals with that garbage

Pippen was also drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the exact same playoff 5 of 5 times (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493657-Reggie-Miller-and-Pippen-faced-the-same-opponent-in-the-playoffs-6-times).

There are a million ways to confirm that Pippen was a bum.. Infact, when we compare Pippen's best performance to other sidekicks, it simply doesn't compare...

Pippen was an athlete... a dunker... a transition and system player - he's the only sidekick that wasn't a "go-to" player..

Only MJ lacked a go-to player for his entire career, so he faced maximum defensive attention, as Kenny Smith explains here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

[red1]

FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


^^^ so Pippen was trash and it's amazing that MJ won 6 Finals with that garbage

Pippen was also drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the exact same playoff 5 of 5 times (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493657-Reggie-Miller-and-Pippen-faced-the-same-opponent-in-the-playoffs-6-times).

There are a million ways to confirm that Pippen was a bum.. Infact, when we compare Pippen's best performance to other sidekicks, it simply doesn't compare...

Pippen was an athlete... a dunker... a transition and system player - he's the only sidekick that wasn't a "go-to" player..

Only MJ lacked a go-to player for his entire career, so he faced maximum defensive attention, as Kenny Smith explains here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

if lebron is so bad at basketball (your argument, obviously not mine), how come kyrie is now apologizing saying they would have won more rings if he was more mature? (kyrie already owes lebron a ring FYI, 2015 was a shoe-in ring for the cavs if kyrie's fragile ass didnt go down)

[3ba11]

if lebron is so bad at basketball (your argument, obviously not mine), how come kyrie is now apologizing saying they would have won more rings if he was more mature? (kyrie already owes lebron a ring FYI, 2015 was a shoe-in ring for the cavs if kyrie's fragile ass didnt go down)


If Lebron never made "the decision" to pursue an all-star team strategy (talent-based winning), then he would have to win organically.

Unfortunately, Lebron can't win organically because his skillset lacks the required teammate fits, development, and brand of ball, so he would have no rings and be a top 40 player.

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

[Phoenix]

FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


^^^ so Pippen was trash and it's amazing that MJ won 6 Finals with that garbage

Pippen was also drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the exact same playoff 5 of 5 times (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493657-Reggie-Miller-and-Pippen-faced-the-same-opponent-in-the-playoffs-6-times).

There are a million ways to confirm that Pippen was a bum.. Infact, when we compare Pippen's best performance to other sidekicks, it simply doesn't compare...

Pippen was an athlete... a dunker... a transition and system player - he's the only sidekick that wasn't a "go-to" player..

Only MJ lacked a go-to player for his entire career, so he faced maximum defensive attention, as Kenny Smith explains here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

95 finals Horry also had a higher GmSc than 92 finals Drexler, 96 finals Kemp and Payton, and 97/98 finals Karl Malone and Stockton. So you're basically saying that not only was Pippen 'trash' in the finals compared to 95 Horry, so were the majority of MJ's main finals opponents, two of those players literally being MVP/MVP runner-up talents.

Good job chap. But on the real, MJ fans request that you PLEASE stop posting.

[red1]

If Lebron never made "the decision" to pursue an all-star team strategy (talent-based winning), then he would have to win organically.

Unfortunately, Lebron can't win organically because his skillset lacks the required teammate fits, development, and brand of ball, so he would have no rings and be a top 40 player.

dude. I already know your M.O. I know how you operate.

your formula is very simple and it literally explains all 30k posts that you have ever posted. that's how accurate the formula is. it covers you across a decade and several accounts. FYI I've only ever had 1 account.


your formula is that everything that is praised that is non-mj related is bad.



that's it.



that explains why you hate curry kd luka kobe shaq magic wilt. it doesnt explain why you love bird.





you're still retarded.

[3ba11]

95 finals Horry also had a higher GmSc than 92 finals Drexler, 96 finals Kemp and Payton, and 97/98 finals Karl Malone and Stockton. So you're basically saying that not only was Pippen 'trash' in the finals compared to 95 Horry, so were the majority of MJ's main finals opponents, two of those players literally being MVP/MVP runner-up talents.

Good job chap. But on the real, MJ fans request that you PLEASE stop posting.


as I said before, ONLY PIPPEN failed to reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size (0/6)

Everyone else with a sample like Kobe reached Horry-level...

So only Pippen can't reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size - he's simply below peak-Horry

[red1]

as I said before, ONLY PIPPEN failed to reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size (0/6)

Everyone else with a sample like Kobe reached Horry-level...

So only Pippen can't reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size - he's simply below peak-Horry

dude can you just bend the knee and say lebron is better than your beloved KG?


thats all I want from you. I know you can't admit more than that.

[Phoenix]

as I said before, ONLY PIPPEN failed to reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size (0/6)

Everyone else with a sample like Kobe reached Horry-level...

So only Pippen can't reach Horry-level over a meaningful sample size - he's simply below peak-Horry

And as I said before, the point isn't about those aforementioned players sample sizes against other teams. So when you make the dumb point that 95 Robert Horry, on account of GmSc, played better than Scottie ever did in the finals, the obvious inference is that Horry also played better than those aforementioned players WHEN THEY PLAYED THE BULLS IN THE FINALS. Robert Horry 95 finals had a higher GmSc than 98 Malone, so that means 95 Horry played better than Malone did IN THE FINALS. You're basically saying if Robert Horry played MJ in the finals, GmSc dictates that he'd be a tougher opponent. Light bulb on yet?

By the flipside, one can also look at the times Scottie had higher GmSc compared to other 2nd options, with enough 'sample size' to say that Chicago had the better 2nd option more often that you pretend. But, the overall point in all of this continues to allude you: stop making simpleton arguing points that can be easily spun against MJ with little effort. Do better.

[Bronbron23]

like Luka or Lebron could f*ck with Michael Jordan.

Their big man ball-dominance has the worst teammate fits, chemistry, and brand of ball, so they can't win organically and are forced to be talent-based winners (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)

It's funny because this is Luka's peak with Dallas just like Lebron's Cavs peaked in 07' and went downhill every year thereafter.. These are one-off runs with no real brand of ball to build upon and develop teammates or chemistry

Yeah ball dominant systems are inferior to systems with movement but I wouldn't lump Bron in with Luka. Bron can actually win with that style because of how good he is on both ends. Luka is only that good on one end. Defenses constantly seek him out to take advantage of him. Defenses couldn't do that to LeBron for most of his career.

[3ba11]

And as I said before, the point isn't about those aforementioned players sample sizes against other teams. So when you make the dumb point that 95 Robert Horry, on account of GmSc, played better than Scottie ever did in the finals, the obvious inference is that Horry also played better than those aforementioned players WHEN THEY PLAYED THE BULLS IN THE FINALS. Robert Horry 95 finals had a higher GmSc than 98 Malone, so that means 95 Horry played better than Malone did IN THE FINALS. You're basically saying if Robert Horry played MJ in the finals, GmSc dictates that he'd be a tougher opponent. Light bulb on yet?

By the flipside, one can also look at the times Scottie had higher GmSc compared to other 2nd options, with enough 'sample size' to say that Chicago had the better 2nd option more often that you pretend. But, the overall point in all of this continues to allude you: stop making simpleton arguing points that can be easily spun against MJ with little effort. Do better.


Stats are best used to indicate correlations, which is why sample size is required.. 1 or 2 instances isn't enough to declare anything

So again, we can say with certainty that Pippen is below peak-Horry because he never reached him over a meaningful sample size - everyone else did

[Phoenix]

Stats are best used to indicate correlations, which is why sample size is required.. 1 or 2 instances isn't enough to declare anything

So again, we can say with certainty that Pippen is below peak-Horry because he never reached him over a meaningful sample size - everyone else did

We can also say with certainty that Pippen had a higher GmSc than a number of opposing 2nd options during the Bulls run, so don't back out on 'sample size' when your own logic for one point destroys your agenda for another.

95 Robert Horry would have been a tougher opponent for MJ than 97 and 98 Malone. GmSc dictates this per your argument, regardless of sample size against other opponents in other series. We only need the sample size of when Malone played MJ, and Horry peaked higher in the finals on account of GmSc for both 97 and 98 Malone in the finals.

[Shooter]

We can also say with certainty that Pippen had a higher GmSc than a number of opposing 2nd options during the Bulls run, so don't back out on 'sample size' when your own logic for one point destroys your agenda for another.

95 Robert Horry would have been a tougher opponent for MJ than 97 and 98 Malone. GmSc dictates this per your argument, regardless of sample size against other opponents in other series. We only need the sample size of when Malone played MJ, and Horry peaked higher in the finals on account of GmSc for both 97 and 98 Malone in the finals.

https://media.giphy.com/media/14ceV8wMLIGO6Q/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

We can also say with certainty that Pippen had a higher GmSc than a number of opposing 2nd options during the Bulls run, so don't back out on 'sample size' when your own logic for one point destroys your agenda for another.

95 Robert Horry would have been a tougher opponent for MJ than 97 and 98 Malone. GmSc dictates this per your argument, regardless of sample size against other opponents in other series. We only need the sample size of when Malone played MJ, and Horry peaked higher in the finals on account of GmSc for both 97 and 98 Malone in the finals.


I can't help you if you don't understand how stats work

You can't say Horry played better than Malone based on 1 or 2 gamescores... But you can with 6 of 6 gamescores

Stats are best used to indicate correlations, which is why sample size is required.. 1 or 2 instances isn't enough to declare anything

So again, we can say with certainty that Pippen is below peak-Horry because he never reached him over a meaningful sample size - everyone else did

[red1]

I can't help you if you don't understand how stats work

You can't say Horry played better than Malone based on 1 or 2 gamescores... But you can with 6 of 6 gamescores

Stats are best used to indicate correlations, which is why sample size is required.. 1 or 2 instances isn't enough to declare anything

So again, we can say with certainty that Pippen is below peak-Horry because he never reached him over a meaningful sample size - everyone else did

my guy.


pippen might've been the SINGLE GREATEST scorer in nba history if he wasn't held back by the GOAT shot-chucker in mike


that's the type of IQ and logic that you are bringing to the table

[Phoenix]

I can't help you if you don't understand how stats work

You can't say Horry played better than Malone based on 1 or 2 gamescores... But you can with 6 of 6 gamescores

Stats are best used to indicate correlations, which is why sample size is required.. 1 or 2 instances isn't enough to declare anything

So again, we can say with certainty that Pippen is below peak-Horry because he never reached him over a meaningful sample size - everyone else did

I can't help if you lack education and comprehension to better understand what's being said.

95 Horry has a higher GmSc than 98 Malone. That means Robert Horry in the 95 finals played better than Malone in the 98 finals on account of GmSc. GmSc is your argument. If it means that he played better than Pippen in the 6 finals, then it also means he played better than Drexler, Payton and Kemp, and Malone in their respective finals, even if only as one-off occurrences( or two in Malone's case). What goes right over your head is that a career journeyman, EVEN AS A ONE-OFF OCCURRENCE, shouldn't have higher GmScs than some of MJs best competition..............PERIOD. Whether it be over a big or small sample size, in no way can that be spun positively. So you're either slow, or deliberately sidestepping the obvious, but watching you try to weasel around your own logic is precious. Especially when the 'sample size' argument shows Pippens superiority over many 2nd options during the Bulls run. You keep crashing into the very wall you're building.

[Shooter]

I can't help if you lack education and comprehension to better understand what's being said. 95 Horry has a higher GmSc than 98 Malone. That means Robert Horry in the 95 finals played better than Malone in the 98 finals on account of GmSc. GmSc is your argument. If it means that he played better than Pippen in the 6 finals, then it also means he played better than Drexler, Payton and Kemp, and Malone in their respective finals, even if only as one-off occurrences( or two in Malone's case). What goes right over your head is that a career journeyman, EVEN AS A ONE-OFF OCCURRENCE, shouldn't have higher GmScs than some of MJs best competition..............PERIOD. Whether it be over a big or small sample size, in no way can that be spun positively. So you're either slow, or deliberately sidestepping the obvious, but watching you try to weasel around your own logic is precious.

https://i.postimg.cc/sgSJxZML/giphy.gif

[RRR3]

How does snivelball not get tired of these brutal beatdowns?


The poor guy is just too stupid to argue against posters who actually comprehend critical thinking and basic logic.

[Shooter]

How does snivelball not get tired of these brutal beatdowns?


The poor guy is just too stupid to argue against posters who actually comprehend critical thinking and basic logic.

+1

I bet this picture triggers him beyond belief

https://i.postimg.cc/GpfsgbjL/ForKobeMyGuy.jpg

LeBron cheesing after doubling--Yes, DOUBLING Kobe's FMVP count.

All the while wearing a tribute to KB24.

Also proving once again that LeBron can win with anyone and he is the GOAT.

Too many ethers for 3clown in one picture for him to handle.

[Phoenix]

3nutball: 95 Horry having a higher GmSc than Clyde Drexler, Payton and Kemp, Karl Malone in a playoff series means nothing cause sample size

Person with a functioning brain: 95 Horry shouldn't have A SINGLE occurrence of a series with a higher GmSc than any of those guys.................PERIOD :hammerhead:

More fun facts based on 3balls fool-proof 'GmSc' logic, 95 finals Horry was almost as good as 91 finals Magic( 20.0 to 19.0)

Geesus H Krist this moron has got me making anti-MJ arguments. :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

3nutball: 95 Horry having a higher GmSc than Clyde Drexler, Payton and Kemp, Karl Malone in a playoff series means nothing cause sample size

Person with a functioning brain: 95 Horry shouldn't have A SINGLE occurrence of a series with a higher GmSc than any of those guys.................PERIOD :hammerhead:

More fun facts based on 3balls fool-proof 'GmSc' logic, 95 finals Horry was almost as good as 91 finals Magic( 20.0 to 19.0)

Geesus H Krist this moron has got me making anti-MJ arguments. :oldlol:

I think that’s the point.

[PeroAntic]

op is in such a conundrum with Luka. He loves him because he can shoot but then hes been talking this off ball organic shit to oblivion so he has to pick a side. Classic case of cognitive dissonance resolution.

'we ever thought' he says, who the **** is we you loser, it was you with takes nobody asks for because you got a boner from Luka and now you feel like youre cheating on MJ. just stfu for once and save yourself the embarassment. Nobody has done more damage to MJ than you with your blabbering.

[MavAlbert]

its INSANE how many people here dont know ANYTHING about basketball.

ZERO.

[Phoenix]

FINALS


95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS


^^^ so Pippen was trash and it's amazing that MJ won 6 Finals with that garbage

Pippen was also drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the exact same playoff 5 of 5 times (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493657-Reggie-Miller-and-Pippen-faced-the-same-opponent-in-the-playoffs-6-times).

There are a million ways to confirm that Pippen was a bum.. Infact, when we compare Pippen's best performance to other sidekicks, it simply doesn't compare...

Pippen was an athlete... a dunker... a transition and system player - he's the only sidekick that wasn't a "go-to" player..

Only MJ lacked a go-to player for his entire career, so he faced maximum defensive attention, as Kenny Smith explains here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

The 3ball GmSc conundrum

1990
vs Bucks Pippen 22.4 Ricky Pierce 15.7
vs Sixers Pippen 17.8 Hersey Hawkins 13.2
vs Pistons Pippen 12.2 Isiah Thomas 16.2

1991
vs Knicks Pippen 17.7 Kiki Vandeweghe 8.0
vs Sixers Pippen 20.8 Hersey Hawkins 16.9
vs Pistons Pippen 20.2 Aquirre 9.4 Vinnie 17.0 Dumars 7.1 Isiah 11.4 ( take your pick)
vs Lakers Pippen 17.5 Divac 16.1 Worthy 11.0 (take your pick)

1992
vs Heat Pippen 24.5 Steve Smith 15.1 ( First option Rony Seikaly 15.9)
vs Knicks Pippen 14.9 Xavier Mcdaniel 12.2
vs Cavs Pippen 17.4 Nance 16.1 Price 12.8 Daugherty 15.7 ( take your pick)
vs Blazers Pippen 18.1 Porter 12.5 ( fun fact: Drexler 18.4)

1993
vs Hawks Pippen 10.3 Kevin Willis 9.8
vs Cavs Pippen 15.2 Daughtery 13.6 (Nance 15.3, Price 9.9)
vs Knicks Pippen 15.7 Starks 8.4
vs Suns Pippen 15.6 Majerle 17.0

1995
vs Hornets Pippen 14.8 Johnson 15.8
vs Magic Pippen 15.8 Hardaway 15.4 ( Horace Grant 17.3)

1996
vs Heat Pippen 22.7( MJ 22.3) Hardaway 9.3 Mourning 8.5
vs Knicks Pippen 13.0 Starks 8.1
vs Magic Pippen 16.6 Hardaway 15.6
vs Sonics Pippen 13.4 Payton 14.4

1997
vs Bullets Pippen 12.0 Howard 14.0
vs Hawks Pippen 16.4 Steve Smith 8.1 Blaylock 15.7 Laettner 9.4 ( take your pick)
vs Heat Pippen 10.8 Mourning 8.9
vs Jazz Pippen 15.1 Stockton 14.9

1998
vs Nets Pippen 16.2 Kittles 10.4 Van Horn 7.0 Douglas 14.5 ( take your pick)
vs Hornets Pippen 16.9 Divac 11.0 Mason 10.7 ( first option Rice 13.6)
vs Pacers Pippen 13.0 Smits 10.9 ( first option Reggie Miller 11.6)
vs Jazz Pippen 13.0 Stockton 10.0

Now with that out of the way, we now turn our attention to 95 finals Robert Horry Gmsc vs Bulls finals opponents first options

95 Horry 19.0
96 Kemp 18.9
98 Malone 18.5
92 Drexler 18.4
97 Malone 16.8

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRr9wshLHZGTLX6Yg84JMdMXL2ESbR9r hspQA&usqp=CAU
"3ball Agenda": 95 finals Robert Horry played at a higher level than Pippen ever did because of GmSc, Pippen is the worst 2nd option

"Unintended consequence": That would also mean that 95 finals Horry played better than most of the Bulls finals first option opponents

"3ball moonwalking": 95 finals Horry having better GmSc than most of Bulls first option opponents doesn't count because of small sample size

"5 year old's retort": Pippen's GmSc over the majority of opposing 2nd options during the 90's Bulls run should count because of large sample size doe

"Conclusion"
https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/between-rock-hard-place-260nw-24293326.jpg

[3ba11]

The 3ball GmSc conundrum

1990
vs Bucks Pippen 22.4 Ricky Pierce 15.7
vs Sixers Pippen 17.8 Hersey Hawkins 13.2
vs Pistons Pippen 12.2 Isiah Thomas 16.2

1991
vs Knicks Pippen 17.7 Kiki Vandeweghe 8.0
vs Sixers Pippen 20.8 Hersey Hawkins 16.9
vs Pistons Pippen 20.2 Aquirre 9.4 Vinnie 17.0 Dumars 7.1 Isiah 11.4 ( take your pick)
vs Lakers Pippen 17.5 Divac 16.1 Worthy 11.0 (take your pick)

1992
vs Heat Pippen 24.5 Steve Smith 15.1 ( First option Rony Seikaly 15.9)
vs Knicks Pippen 14.9 Xavier Mcdaniel 12.2
vs Cavs Pippen 17.4 Nance 16.1 Price 12.8 Daugherty 15.7 ( take your pick)
vs Blazers Pippen 18.1 Porter 12.5 ( fun fact: Drexler 18.4)

1993
vs Hawks Pippen 10.3 Kevin Willis 9.8
vs Cavs Pippen 15.2 Daughtery 13.6 (Nance 15.3, Price 9.9)
vs Knicks Pippen 15.7 Starks 8.4
vs Suns Pippen 15.6 Majerle 17.0

1995
vs Hornets Pippen 14.8 Johnson 15.8
vs Magic Pippen 15.8 Hardaway 15.4 ( Horace Grant 17.3)

1996
vs Heat Pippen 22.7( MJ 22.3) Hardaway 9.3 Mourning 8.5
vs Knicks Pippen 13.0 Starks 8.1
vs Magic Pippen 16.6 Hardaway 15.6
vs Sonics Pippen 13.4 Payton 14.4

1997
vs Bullets Pippen 12.0 Howard 14.0
vs Hawks Pippen 16.4 Steve Smith 8.1 Blaylock 15.7 Laettner 9.4 ( take your pick)
vs Heat Pippen 10.8 Mourning 8.9
vs Jazz Pippen 15.1 Stockton 14.9

1998
vs Nets Pippen 16.2 Kittles 10.4 Van Horn 7.0 Douglas 14.5 ( take your pick)
vs Hornets Pippen 16.9 Divac 11.0 Mason 10.7 ( first option Rice 13.6)
vs Pacers Pippen 13.0 Smits 10.9 ( first option Reggie Miller 11.6)
vs Jazz Pippen 13.0 Stockton 10.0

Now with that out of the way, we now turn our attention to 95 finals Robert Horry Gmsc vs Bulls finals opponents first options

95 Horry 19.0
96 Kemp 18.9
98 Malone 18.5
92 Drexler 18.4
97 Malone 16.8

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRr9wshLHZGTLX6Yg84JMdMXL2ESbR9r hspQA&usqp=CAU
"3ball Agenda": 95 finals Robert Horry played at a higher level than Pippen ever did because of GmSc, Pippen is the worst 2nd option

"Unintended consequence": That would also mean that 95 finals Horry played better than most of the Bulls finals first option opponents

"3ball moonwalking": 95 finals Horry having better GmSc than most of Bulls first option opponents doesn't count because of small sample size

"5 year old's retort": Pippen's GmSc over the majority of opposing 2nd options during the 90's Bulls run should count because of large sample size doe

"Conclusion"
https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/between-rock-hard-place-260nw-24293326.jpg


When Drexler failed to reach Horry's gamescore in the 92' Finals, it was just one time - we can't say he's worse than peak-Horry or incapable of peak-Horry based on that... Ditto for the other 3 first options that failed to reach Horry-level in their 1 attempt - apparently it's pretty hard to produce against Jordan's defense..

So who cares about failing to reach Horry-level 1 time because that isn't enough to make any declarations about who is better... But when a guy fails to reach Horry-level 6 of 6 times??? That means we can say that every version of him is worse than peak-Horry and incapable of reaching peak-Horry.

Btw, gamescore benefits hustlers and defenders like Pippen, but his hustle stats are less important than the scoring/efficiency/clutch combination that he usually trailed opposing sidekicks, and defensive attention he received - Pippen was the only sidekick that was a transition producer and non-go-to player in the halfcourt

[tontoz]

Luka showed out in the playoffs, again. He just got beat by a better team. Nothing to see here.

[Phoenix]

When Drexler failed to reach Horry's gamescore in the 92' Finals, it was just one time - we can't say he's worse than peak-Horry or incapable of peak-Horry based on that... Ditto for the other 3 first options that failed to reach Horry-level in their 1 attempt - apparently it's pretty hard to produce against Jordan's defense..

So who cares about failing to reach Horry-level 1 time because that isn't enough to make any declarations about who is better... But when a guy fails to reach Horry-level 6 of 6 times??? That means we can say that every version of him is worse than peak-Horry and incapable of reaching peak-Horry.

Btw, gamescore benefits hustlers and defenders like Pippen, but his hustle stats are less important than the scoring/efficiency/clutch combination that he usually trailed opposing sidekicks, and defensive attention he received - Pippen was the only sidekick that was a transition producer and non-go-to player in the halfcourt

:roll:

You can wiggle around it till your little hearts content. The fact that Horry exceeded Drexler's GmSC at all IS THE POINT dumbass ( actually the point is using GmSc in the way you are is dumb period) but since you now wish to bring up that GmSc benefits 'hustlers and defenders' like Pippen...... Horry in that mythical 95 finals series scored 18ppg on 43% shooting. That's the kind of scoring you give Pippen shit for, meaning that Horry's high GmSc number for the series was mostly attributed to 'hustle' stats( he averaged 10 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocks in the 95 finals) and not elite scoring volume or efficiency. So just as you handwave Scottie's higher GmSc because of 'hustle and defense' stats, we can also do the same for Horry's 95 finals GmSc. Thanks for playing.

Also, why would Karl Malone's production be impacted by Jordan's defense? Is there some alternate reality you exist where he was the primary defender on Mailman? Was Kemp being defended by Jordan in your reality, instead of Rodman( and Kemp's GmSc edged higher than MJs that finals and not on account of 'hustle and defense' stats either)..

Whoops, hung yourself by your own arguments again. :oldlol: