Kawhi & Butler confirm that Lowry + role players can win East - no super-team needed

[3ba11]

Lebron couldn't win the weak East with homecourt in 09' and 10', so he formed super-teams to guarantee Finals runs (bullshit resume created by "the decision" to stack the deck)

[Axe]

1-9

[post]

except i can confirm boston will win this game

you lose again

[post]

kawhi had 3 all nba teammates and 3 all defense teammates

stay losing idiot

[Spurs m8]

Yep.

No superteam needed for either....

[Spurs m8]

kawhi had 3 all nba teammates and 3 all defense teammates

stay losing idiot

Which of kawhis team mates made all nba or drfense teams in 2019?

Loser

[Im so nba'd out]

That raptors team was a super team looking back in hindsight… I told ppl at the time “stop calling this a non stack team. We don’t know what fvv and siakam will become” …. I was right

All defensive team players
Kawhi
Gasol
Ibaka
Green

All stars
Kawhi
Lowry
Gasol
Siakam
Vanvleet

Dpoy
Kawhi
Gasol

Elite role players / spark plug players who can have a dominant random game
Green
O.G
Powell
Ibaka
Boucher


Goat level coach who can win you multiple playoff games with adjustments/ schemes


And this heat team got to the finals with the same core without lowery….plz stop + tucker >>crowder

[Lebron23]

1-9


Jordan failed to win an NBA title in the 1980's, and he only won several NBA Championship in the weak sauce 1990's

[Shooter]

1-9


Jordan failed to win an NBA title in the 1980's, and he only won several NBA Championship in the weak sauce 1990's

PS: Kobe is barely top 15

[post]

Which of kawhis team mates made all nba or drfense teams in 2019?

Loser

doesn't matter it's evidence they are better than mere role players

something 3tard repeatedly refuses to grasp because he's a compulsively lying sociopath who needs mental help badly

and you're the neanderthal with 20,823 posts

[Shooter]

doesn't matter it's evidence they are better than mere role players

something 3tard repeatedly refuses to grasp because he's a compulsively lying sociopath who needs mental help badly

and you're the neanderthal with 20,823 posts

:roll::roll:

[Axe]

doesn't matter it's evidence they are better than mere role players

something 3tard repeatedly refuses to grasp because he's a compulsively lying sociopath who needs mental help badly

and you're the neanderthal with 20,823 posts
:lol

[TheGoatest]

Lowry (all-star), supporting cast that went 17-5 in the 22 games Kawhi didn't play = role players
Adebayo (2020 all-star, 2020 all-defensive 2nd team) = role player

:oldlol:

Yep, makes about as much sense as calling journeyman bum Tristan Kardashian a better player than 4 x all-defender and all-star Horace Grant. :roll:

[Spurs m8]

Melt.downs.everywhere

Also Giannis...where was Giannis superteam?

[NBAGOAT]

Melt.downs.everywhere

Also Giannis...where was Giannis superteam?

dont act like jrue/middleton/brook isnt good help lol. 3ball's premise also falls pretty flat when he completely disregards bam and siakam who are all star caliber players.

[Phoenix]

Another prediction falling flat on its face. :oldlol:

[SpaceJam]

Something DeRozan couldn't do, proof MJ wouldn't be as successful in this era :pimp:

[post]

Melt.downs.everywhere

Also Giannis...where was Giannis superteam?

superteam is a vague word

holiday could've been all nba multiple times

middleton at his peak was right there too

holiday and lopez both all defense

[Shooter]

MJ = DeMar

Swap DeMar for MJ in the 90s? 7 chips minimum.

[3ba11]

dont act like jrue/middleton/brook isnt good help lol. 3ball's premise also falls pretty flat when he completely disregards bam and siakam who are all star caliber players.



Iverson won in 2001

Kidd won in 2002

Kidd won in 2003

Lebron won in 2007

Dwight won in 2009



****Lebron super-teams take over****



Kawhi won in 2019

Butler won in 20' and nearly 22'


^^° only Lebron's super-teams interrupted a trend of mostly 1-star teams winning the conference

[Shooter]

How many times can 3clown be wrong in a full calendar year? What is his collection of failed predictions up to now? 100?

[3ba11]

How many times can 3clown be wrong in a full calendar year? What is his collection of failed predictions up to now? 100?


How was I wrong?

You guys are so afraid of 3ball. You fear 3ball

[3ba11]

Wrong, as always.


There's a difference between a star and all-star

Lebron had a 2 all-star team in 2009 (lost as historic favorite) and also 2005 or 2022 (lottery)

Ultimately, the 2000's East was won by 1-star teams 5 of 9 years from 01-09' (Iverson, Lebron, Dwight, Kidd twice).. That's the majority of the years.

It's the only conference in history that was won by a bunch of 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

[Phoenix]

There's a difference between a star and all-star

Lebron had a 2 all-star team in 2009 (lost as historic favorite) and also 2005 or 2022 (lottery)

Ultimately, the 2000's East was won by 1-star teams 5 of 9 years from 01-09' (Iverson, Lebron, Dwight, Kidd twice).. That's the majority of the years.

It's the only conference in history that was won by a bunch of 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

The early 2000's was won by 'one star' teams because that was pretty much its weakest point in the last 20 years. By the time the mid 2000's rolled around with the Pistons and Shaq/Wade Heat, none of those 'one star' teams would have won the eastern conference. Then the big 3 Celtics came into play in 2007, and the only reason the 'one star' Magic won the East was because of injury, considering they barely got by the Celtics without KG (and the natural pecking order came back the following year). Also is Mo Williams a 'star', or just someone who made the all-star team? And why does he get to count but not Jameer Nelson in 2009? You don't get to decide where that line is drawn.

Ultimately, you're full of shit.

[red1]

lowry wasnt that good for the heat. old 36 year old point guard


kawhi had a lot more than lowry :oldlol:

[3ba11]

The early 2000's was won by 'one star' teams because that was pretty much its weakest point in the last 20 years. By the time the mid 2000's rolled around with the Pistons and Shaq/Wade Heat, none of those 'one star' teams would have won the eastern conference. Then the big 3 Celtics came into play in 2007, and the only reason the 'one star' Magic won the East was because of injury, considering they barely got by the Celtics without KG (and the natural pecking order came back the following year). Also is Mo Williams a 'star', or just someone who made the all-star team? And why does he get to count but not Jameer Nelson in 2009? You don't get to decide where that line is drawn.

Ultimately, you're full of shit.


1-star teams won the conference in 2007 and 2009 - so that's 5 of 9 years when we add Iverson and Kidd's runs... aka the conference was won by 1-star teams most years... That's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

And KG was a 14/7 bum post-injury, so those Celtics were garbage fossils and only won 50 games - they were massive underdogs to the Cavs, but the Cavs lost a 2-1 because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games

Stop defending this fraud.. it's embarrassing

[Phoenix]

Notice what 3ball does....first he tries to make a point about there being a difference between a star and an all-star, then proceeds to say that Lebron had a 2 all-star team in 2009 and clearly tries to infer that Mo Williams is an actual 'star', but I guess we can't count Rashard Lewis here? Why not? He made the all-star team as well, and since 3nutball is enamoured with PPG he scored the same as Mo did on 10 percent higher. So who actually had the better 'star' here?And for that matter, who had the better 3rd option/scorer in that series? The choices are Hedo........or Delonte West.

[Phoenix]

1-star teams won the conference in 2007 and 2009 - so that's 5 of 9 years when we add Iverson and Kidd's runs... aka the conference was won by 1-star teams most years... That's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

And KG was a 14/7 bum post-injury, so those Celtics were garbage fossils and only won 50 games - they were massive underdogs to the Cavs, but the Cavs lost a 2-1 because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games

Stop defending this fraud.. it's embarrassing

Dikembo Mutumbo was an all-star and defensive player of the year in 2001, why isn't he a 'star'?

Why are you not counting 2008, with KG, Pierce, and Allen all all-stars and 'stars' that year, however you want to spin it?

You're too lowly educated in general, and in basketball clearly, to not be able to look past KG's statline and value the defense and leadership that was missing in 2009, and back in 2010. Or let me break it down to you simply, in 2009 the Magic beat the Celts in 7, no KG. In 2010 the Celtics beat the Magic in 6, KG is back. Light bulb come on yet?

Once again, the Eastern conference was shit in the early 2000s. That's the only reason the Sixer and Nets broke through. The Pistons technically had one all-star in 2004 but had possibly the best starting 5 in the league and historically great defensively. The Heat in 2005 and 2006 were two star/all-star teams. The Celtics in 2008 were clearly the big 3 at or near the top of their respective games. Rashard Lewis and Hedo on the Magic were both better options in the playoffs than Mo Williams.

[3ba11]

Dikembo Mutumbo was an all-star and defensive player of the year in 2001, why isn't he a 'star'?

Why are you not counting 2008, with KG, Pierce, and Allen all all-stars and 'stars' that year, however you want to spin it?

You're too lowly educated in general, and in basketball clearly, to not be able to look past KG's statline and value the defense and leadership that was missing in 2009, and back in 2010. Or let me break it down to you simply, in 2009 the Magic won in 7, no KG. In 2010, the Celtics won in 6, KG is back. Light bulb come on yet?


5 of 9 years between 01-09'.... 1-star teams won the conference

Then Lebron formed a super-team

That's basically cheating...

That's like Jimmy Butler carrying the Heat to the Finals a few years and then DeRozan teams up with Tatum and Embiid... Then everyone gives DeRozan PROPS for this and laud his "Finals streak"... That would be ridiculous, yet that's what happened with Lebron

[Phoenix]

5 of 9 years between 01-09'.... 1-star teams won the conference

Then Lebron formed a super-team

That's basically cheating...

That's like Jimmy Butler carrying the Heat to the Finals a few years and then DeRozan teams up with Tatum and Embiid... Then everyone gives DeRozan PROPS for this and laud his "Finals streak"... That would be ridiculous, yet that's what happened with Lebron

Nah, it don't work like that. We can either do it in terms of who were 'actual' all-stars, or we can do by our own arbitrary definition of what a 'star' is, since you're clearly rating Mo as one.

2001 Iverson and Dikembo. Two all-stars and both 'stars'
2004 Wallace, Rip, Chauncey One all-star, all 3 are 'stars'.
2005 Shaq and Wade. Both all-stars, both 'stars'
2006 Shaq and Wade. Both all-stars, both 'stars'
2008 KG/PP/Ray Three all-stars, all 3 are stars
2009 Dwight/Rashard/Hedo Two all-stars, all 3 are stars since you're counting Mo as one
2010 KG/PP/Rondo/Ray, 3 all-stars and 4 stars

[red1]

5 of 9 years between 01-09'.... 1-star teams won the conference

Then Lebron formed a super-team

That's basically cheating...

That's like Jimmy Butler carrying the Heat to the Finals a few years and then DeRozan teams up with Tatum and Embiid... Then everyone gives DeRozan PROPS for this and laud his "Finals streak"... That would be ridiculous, yet that's what happened with Lebron

the only thing that a player can do is dominate his era.


lebron dominated his era more than any player not named mj dominated their era.




and that's why it bothers you so much. :oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

Detroit won 88-90 with a one star team.

[Phoenix]

Watch for how 3nutball tries to play sleight of hand with the term 'star' and 'all-star'. Case in point Mo Williams was one in 2009, but not Rashard Lewis even though both made the all-star team, and Lewis outplayed Mo as the respective 2nd option.

[tpols]

Watch for how 3nutball tries to play sleight of hand with the term 'star' and 'all-star'. Case in point Mo Williams was one in 2009, but not Rashard Lewis even though both made the all-star team, and Lewis outplayed Mo as the respective 2nd option.

Why did Rashard Lewis outplay Mo though? Because back then Dwight commanded a double or even triple team everytime,he caught the ball. While Stan Van Gundy is on record saying their strategy was to single team LeBron and let him dominate the ball. That's why the Magic appeared to have so much better chemistry than the Cavs.

[red1]

Why did Rashard Lewis outplay Mo though? Because back then Dwight commanded a double or even triple team everytime,he caught the ball. While Stan Van Gundy is on record saying their strategy was to single team LeBron and let him dominate the ball. That's why the Magic appeared to have so much better chemistry than the Cavs.

I actually have homies in cleveland now that are from cleveland - that's how much I rooted for their shit teams over the years


everyone in cleveland thinks lebron is the hands down GOAT. they know the magic he pulled carrying those cavs teams, especially that year. :oldlol:

[red1]

that magic series gave lbj one of the sickest game-winners of all-time - bigger shot than anything kobe ever hit in his playoff life :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvTLOhm-TQ&ab_channel=NBA
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/99/98/04999802d2ffd0814cb7b05f9bf2182c.gif

[Phoenix]

Why did Rashard Lewis outplay Mo though? Because back then Dwight commanded a double or even triple team everytime,he caught the ball. While Stan Van Gundy is on record saying their strategy was to single team LeBron and let him dominate the ball. That's why the Magic appeared to have so much better chemistry than the Cavs.

Well no shit, the Magic were a better constructed team and able to capitalize on having shooters around Dwight to kick out to, or the Cavs risk surrendering the interior to him. You're not presenting breaking news.

But it wasn't just the conditions of that specific series, because the very next year Mo dropped 13ppg on a not so blistering 52% TS( 41 % from the field) against Boston. He provided offense against low-hanging fruit over the regular season and early playoff opponents, only to be punched in the mouth against real competition. He was nothing before his stint with Lebron, and nothing after. Certainly wasn't a championship 2nd option, and presenting him as anything but is laughable. Nobody would ever consider Mo Williams to be better than Rashard Lewis, generally speaking, unless they're straight up trolling.

[red1]

Well no shit, the Magic were a better constructed team and able to capitalize on having shooters around Dwight to kick out to, or the Cavs risk surrendering the interior to him. You're not presenting breaking news. But it weren't just the conditions of that specific series, because the very next year Mo dropped 13ppg on a not so blistering 52% TS( 41 % from the field). He wasn't a championship 2nd option, and presenting him as anything but someone able to ride Lebron to a singular all-star appearance only to get punched in the mouth under the playoff spotlight, is laughable. Nobody would ever consider Mo Williams to be better than Rashard Lewis, generally speaking, unless they're straight up trolling.

go look at that roster. the 2009 cavaliers.



lebron is the hands-down GOAT for getting that team to 50+ wins let alone 66 wins in the first place....

[Shooter]

How was I wrong?

You guys are so afraid of 3ball. You fear 3ball

Butler didn't win the East this year....

Kawhi won it win Lowry + Siacam + FVV + Gasol

Get wrekt loser :lol

[3ba11]

go look at that roster. the 2009 cavaliers.



lebron is the hands-down GOAT for getting that team to 50+ wins let alone 66 wins in the first place....


The 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compare to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

So Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the following year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

[3ba11]

Butler didn't win the East this year....

Kawhi won it win Lowry + Siacam + FVV + Gasol

Get wrekt loser :lol


I never said lowry won this year - I said he COULD'VE won.. His team was good enough but this was a "bounce here and there" type of series

[red1]

The 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compare to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

So Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the following year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

my brother. jordan would never. I mean NEVER. EVER. win 60+games with mo williams as his second option.



like it would literally NEVER happen.





there's only 1 player in NBA history that would that could carry a team that bad to 60+ wins.

[Phoenix]

The 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compare to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

So Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the following year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' despite adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite

The 2009 Magic had the first ranked, Rashard Lewis outplayed Mo Williams in their matchup, and Hedo as third option outplayed Delonte.

Great work chap.

[red1]

The 2009 Magic had the first ranked, Rashard Lewis outplayed Mo Williams in their matchup, and Hedo as third option outplayed Delonte.

Great work chap.

lebron was the best player in the world by a mile that year... very clearly IMO....



2009 lebron might have been the best version...

[3ba11]

my brother. jordan would never. I mean NEVER. EVER. win 60+games with mo williams as his second option.



like it would literally NEVER happen.





there's only 1 player in NBA history that would that could carry a team that bad to 60+ wins.


Maybe you aren't understanding English

Mo was better than 90' Pippen across the board

scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48

The Cavs' defense was also much better and they had a better cast of decorated vets... So they were better offensively, defensively and also more experienced than the young Bulls, but Jordan's skillset allowed team improvement/chemistry and Lebron's doesn't

[Phoenix]

I never said lowry won this year - I said he COULD'VE won.. His team was good enough but this was a "bounce here and there" type of series

Nah, you shot your load too quickly. Anyone with sense would have waited till after game 7 before talking about what 'should' or 'could' have happened. Furthermore four of the games were decided by double digits, one by 25, one by 20. Those aren't 'bounce here or there' outcomes.

[red1]

Maybe you aren't understanding English

Mo was better than 90' Pippen across the board

scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48

And the Cavs' had a much better defense and a cast of decorated vets... So they were better offensively, defensively and more experienced than the young Bulls, but Jordan's skillset allowed team improvement/chemistry and Lebron's doesn't

dude


my dude.




you used to argue with me back then that mo williams was a better player. a better raw talent.



your entire argument was obviously biased and obviously based on diminishing 1 player.




how do you look now.





how does your argument look now?



will any rational human being argue that mo williams has the same raw talent for basketbal that pippen does?

[Phoenix]

lebron was the best player in the world by a mile that year... very clearly IMO....



2009 lebron might have been the best version...

His athletic peak and his skills were catching up, 2013 was probably the best combo of that with mentality though.

[red1]

its over.


3ball literally convinced me that lebron is the GOAT.

[red1]

its actually over.


lebron is the hands-down GOAT by 3ball's own criteria.

[Phoenix]

Maybe you aren't understanding English

Mo was better than 90' Pippen across the board

scoring, efficiency, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48

The Cavs' defense was also much better and they had a better cast of decorated vets... So they were better offensively, defensively and also more experienced than the young Bulls, but Jordan's skillset allowed team improvement/chemistry and Lebron's doesn't

Ultimately both the 2009 Cavs and 1990 Bulls lost, so who cares? Equating these two teams 20 years apart is dumb anyway, as are most of your talking points. The 2009 Magic were a better than than the 2009 Cavs, what are you not grasping? Scottie Pippen's advanced stats 20 years earlier has sweet fukk all to do that with it. The 2009 Magic having a higher Drtg, or better support players compared to the Cavs is relevant, not Scottie's VORP in 1990. What the fukk....

[3ba11]

His athletic peak and his skills were catching up, 2013 was probably the best combo of that with mentality though.


Are you sure that 2013 was Lebron's peak? That's when he averaged 16 on 39% for the first 3 games of the Finals and was a net negative for the series (Heat didn't win with him on the floor).. His 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 and needed Ray Allen to force Game 7... He only averaged 25 overall while Wade got 20 and outscored the opposing #1 option.. Lebron always needed equal-scoring partners because he lacks the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

[red1]

Are you sure that 2013 was Lebron's peak? That's when he averaged 16 on 39% for the first 3 games of the Finals and was a net negative for the series (Heat didn't win with him on the floor).. His 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 and needed Ray Allen to force Game 7... He only averaged 25 overall while Wade got 20 and outscored the opposing #1 option.. Lebron always needed equal-scoring partners because he lacks the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

you're finished bro. your arguments failed.


only one player ever won a finals MVP against a 70-win team.


jordan never did that. jordan went 0/0 against a 70 win teams (didn't play any)


proves his style of play was sub-optimal to beat 70-win teams (we'll never know)







only one player beat a 70-win team




GOAT






aka the 3ball formula

[Shooter]

I never said lowry won this year - I said he COULD'VE won.. His team was good enough but this was a "bounce here and there" type of series


:roll:

Like I said..WRONG AGAIN LOSER :lol

[Phoenix]

Are you sure that 2013 was Lebron's peak? That's when he averaged 16 on 39% for the first 3 games of the Finals and was a net negative for the series (Heat didn't win with him on the floor).. His 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 and needed Ray Allen to force Game 7... He only averaged 25 overall while Wade got 20 and outscored the opposing #1 option.. Lebron always needed equal-scoring partners because he lacks the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

93 MJ vs Knicks first three games:

Game 1: 10/27
Game 2: 12/32
Game 3: 3/18( Bulls won by the way)

Without Pippen's 29 and Horace/Paxson/BJ all outscoring Starks/Oakley/Rivers etc the Bulls are down 3-0.

Whatever you're doing, it's nap time.

[StrongLurk]

93 MJ vs Knicks first three games:

Game 1: 10/27
Game 2: 12/32
Game 3: 3/18( Bulls won by the way)

Without Pippen's 29 and Horace/Paxson/BJ all outscoring Starks/Oakley/Rivers etc the Bulls are down 3-0.

Whatever you're doing, it's nap time.

25/77 for Jordan...damn lol.

[Phoenix]

25/77 for Jordan...damn lol.

Its a stupid talking point, ultimately( like most of what 3ball says). One can nitpick any all-timers games, or series of games. Hell I saw the game against Miami in 97 when MJ was 9 for 35, shit was straight unwatchable. I'm not even a Lebron guy,it's just to the point of absurdity with that poster.

[3ba11]

93 MJ vs Knicks first three games:

Game 1: 10/27
Game 2: 12/32
Game 3: 3/18( Bulls won by the way)

Without Pippen's 29 and Horace/Paxson/BJ all outscoring Starks/Oakley/Rivers etc the Bulls are down 3-0.

Whatever you're doing, it's nap time.



First 3 games

13' Lebron Finals (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog-advanced/2013/#132-134-sum:pgl_advanced_playoffs)..... 16.9 on 44 TS
93' Jordan ECF (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog-advanced/1993/#100-102-sum:pgl_advanced_playoffs)......... 28.3 on 46 TS


Everyone knew that Game 3 was a giveaway game - it was over after 1 quarter where MJ had 8 points and 6 assists, while Pippen was MIA (6 and 0).

Who cares what happened after that in garbage time, which is why it was never reported like a Pippen save-job... That narrative only began after some kids looked at old box scores and made up a new narrative 30 years later.. If they actually watched the game, it's clear that MJ is carrying the biggest load ever when the game was competitive and Pippen was MIA - this was the standard for their entire careers together.

[1987_Lakers]

93 MJ vs Knicks first three games:

Game 1: 10/27
Game 2: 12/32
Game 3: 3/18( Bulls won by the way)

Without Pippen's 29 and Horace/Paxson/BJ all outscoring Starks/Oakley/Rivers etc the Bulls are down 3-0.

Whatever you're doing, it's nap time.

Not to mention Pippen outplayed Jordan in the 2nd half of a closeout game 6.

[Phoenix]

First 3 games

13' Lebron Finals (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog-advanced/2013/#132-134-sum:pgl_advanced_playoffs)..... 16.9 on 44 TS
93' Jordan ECF (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog-advanced/1993/#100-102-sum:pgl_advanced_playoffs)......... 28.3 on 46 TS


Everyone knew that Game 3 was a giveaway game - it was over after 1 quarter where MJ had 8 points and 6 assists, while Pippen was MIA (6 and 0).

Who cares what happened after that in garbage time, which is why it was never reported like a Pippen save-job... That narrative only began after some kids looked at old box scores and made up a new narrative 30 years later.. If they actually watched the game, it's clear that MJ is carrying the biggest load ever when the game was competitive and Pippen was MIA - this was the standard for their entire careers together.

So MJ took 26 shots to Lebron's 18, and scored more? You maff good.

The only reason it was a 'throwaway' game is because the Knicks were shit outside of Ewing, not because MJ scoring 8 points in the first quarter put the game out of reach. Fukk outta here :oldlol: This clown acting like MJ dropped 20 in the first quarter or some shit.

Oh about 2nd options, Pippen 29 on 10/12. Starks 8 points on 2 of 7. Actually for that matter, the 2nd option outscored the first( Ewing) :cheers: Actually wait, you're saying Pippen scored the same as Ewing AND Starks?

https://c.tenor.com/ZiLugTiVQNgAAAAC/the-more-you-know.gif

[3ba11]

Not to mention Pippen outplayed Jordan in the 2nd half of a closeout game 6.


You guys are making up stuff 30 years later

Game 3 was never reported as a Pippen save-job because Jordan dominated the only competitive part of the game, while Pippen was MIA

And it was a giveaway game that everyone knew the Knicks would lose (give up quickly)

You guys didn't watch the game, so you don't know what happened and are just looking at box scores 30 years later

[Phoenix]

You guys are making up stuff 30 years later

Game 3 was never reported as a Pippen save-job because Jordan dominated the only competitive part of the game, while Pippen was MIA

And it was a giveaway game that everyone knew the Knicks would lose (give up quickly)

You guys didn't watch the game, so you don't know what happened and are just looking at box scores 30 years later

The only reason it was a 'throwaway' game is because the Knicks were shit outside of Ewing, not because MJ scoring 8 points in the first quarter put the game out of reach. Nobody has ever 'put a game out of reach' in the first quarter by scoring 8 points. Fukk outta here :oldlol:

Oh about 2nd options, Pippen 29 on 10/12. Starks 8 points on 2 of 7. Actually for that matter, the 2nd option outscored the first( Ewing) :cheers: Actually wait, you're saying Pippen scored the same as Ewing AND Starks?

https://c.tenor.com/ZiLugTiVQNgAAAAC/the-more-you-know.gif

[post]

there are better advanced stats that say 90 pippen was better than 09 mo

3ball may genuinely not know this

or he's just up to his same old 3ball tricks

[Phoenix]

Here's 3ball conundrum based on his GmSc argument: If you ask the simple question 'Who was better in their final series, 95 Horry or 97 Malone?' he's either compelled to justify his usage of GmSc by selecting 95 Horry, which is damning to Malone.... or he has to ignore his GmSc argument in order to hold the line for Malone, which cuts his argument off at the knees that GmSc is a remotely sensible arguing point to say Horry> Pippen. The sample size is irrelevant because a ONE-OFF sample size is damning on its own merits. And couple that with the numerous times that Pippen had a higher GmSc than the 2nd option on opposing teams, which nukes his argument that everyone's 2nd option> Pippen because then he has to ignore the 'sample size' argument he's been using to get around Horry having a higher GmSc than Drexler/Kemp/Payon/Malone.

There's a simple visual to describe that...
https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/between-rock-hard-place-260nw-24293326.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

The only reason it was a 'throwaway' game is because the Knicks were shit outside of Ewing, not because MJ scoring 8 points in the first quarter put the game out of reach. Nobody has ever 'put a game out of reach' in the first quarter by scoring 8 points. Fukk outta here :oldlol:

Oh about 2nd options, Pippen 29 on 10/12. Starks 8 points on 2 of 7. Actually for that matter, the 2nd option outscored the first( Ewing) :cheers: Actually wait, you're saying Pippen scored the same as Ewing AND Starks?

https://c.tenor.com/ZiLugTiVQNgAAAAC/the-more-you-know.gif

No. NO.

Those 8 points in the first quarter were what decided that shit.

But yea Pippen having an outstanding game overall doesn’t make Jordan worse. The insecurity shows.

[Phoenix]

No. NO.

Those 8 points in the first quarter were what decided that shit.

But yea Pippen having an outstanding game overall doesn’t make Jordan worse. The insecurity shows.

The funny part is the first quarter score was 34-23. Not only was MJ scoring 8 points less than a quarter of the teams points( meaning the 'Jordannaires' scored 26 points, more than the Knicks 23) but since when has an 11 point game after the first quarter meant the game was out of reach? :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

The funny part is the first quarter score was 34-23. Not only was MJ scoring 8 points less than a quarter of the teams points( meaning the 'Jordannaires' scored 26 points, more than the Knicks 23) but since when has an 11 point game after the first quarter meant the game was out of reach? :oldlol:

You can make an argument of anything

[Shooter]

93 MJ vs Knicks first three games:

Game 1: 10/27
Game 2: 12/32
Game 3: 3/18( Bulls won by the way)

Without Pippen's 29 and Horace/Paxson/BJ all outscoring Starks/Oakley/Rivers etc the Bulls are down 3-0.

Whatever you're doing, it's nap time.

+1

https://i.postimg.cc/9FQyj0J0/scottie_again.png

[post]

Here's 3ball conundrum based on his GmSc argument: If you ask the simple question 'Who was better in their final series, 95 Horry or 97 Malone?' he's either compelled to justify his usage of GmSc by selecting 95 Horry, which is damning to Malone.... or he has to ignore his GmSc argument in order to hold the line for Malone, which cuts his argument off at the knees that GmSc is a remotely sensible arguing point to say Horry> Pippen. The sample size is irrelevant because a ONE-OFF sample size is damning on its own merits. And couple that with the numerous times that Pippen had a higher GmSc than the 2nd option on opposing teams, which nukes his argument that everyone's 2nd option> Pippen because then he has to ignore the 'sample size' argument he's been using to get around Horry having a higher GmSc than Drexler/Kemp/Payon/Malone.

There's a simple visual to describe that...
https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/between-rock-hard-place-260nw-24293326.jpg

horry didn't have to deal with rodman

malone did

3ball loves to hate on rodman

[Axe]

+1

https://i.postimg.cc/9FQyj0J0/scottie_again.png
Bailout

[Phoenix]

horry didn't have to deal with rodman

malone did

3ball loves to hate on rodman

The general point is using GmSc is a stupid criteria and often needs to unwanted outcomes, like the selective usage of any stat to drive a particular agenda. It's like using PER as a definitive metric to say someone's GOAT: MJ and Lebron are #1 and #2, ok so PER serves the argument there for those two being at the top regardless of where you personally rank them. But if you're consistent with using PER in that way, Neil Johnston is the 10th best player ever.

[post]

there are 12 players who have more combined all nba and all defense teams than pippen

kareem
duncan
kobe
garnett
lebron
payton
robinson
chris paul
karl malone
havlicek
hakeem
jordan

and i'll give bill russell and jerry west the benefit of the doubt and include them since they didn't have all defense most of their careers

perhaps wilt too

the idea that pippen is overrated because of 6 chips jordan handed him is not to be taken seriously

[post]

The general point is using GmSc is a stupid criteria and often needs to unwanted outcomes, like the selective usage of any stat to drive a particular agenda. It's like using PER as a definitive metric to say someone's GOAT: MJ and Lebron are #1 and #2, ok so PER serves the argument there for those two being at the top regardless of where you personally rank them. But if you're consistent with using PER in that way, Neil Johnston is the 10th best player ever.

per is probably not the best stat but johnston was a lot better than a lot of people probably realize relative to his era

[Phoenix]

per is probably not the best stat but johnston was a lot better than a lot of people probably realize relative to his era

Sure. I'm just saying that sweeping application of any stat always leads to those kinds of 'well that's not what I meant' conclusions.

[post]

Sure. I'm just saying that sweeping application of any stat always leads to those kinds of 'well that's not what I meant' conclusions.

johnston is also 4th all time in ws48

he lead the league in scoring and fg% one year which is quite amazing

wilt did it 4 times

shaq 1

[post]

there are 26 players with more all nba 1st teams than johnston who has 4

johnston only played 8 years total

6 more or less full seasons as a starter

injuries forced him to retire early

[Phoenix]

johnston is also 4th all time in ws48

he lead the league in scoring and fg% one year which is quite amazing

wilt did it 4 times

shaq 1

So should we start putting him on top 10 lists? Top 20?

[post]

So should we start putting him on top 10 lists? Top 20?

that's hard to say

he lead the league in scoring 3 times shaq 2

he lead the league in rebounding 1 time shaq 0

johnston could actually shoot ft

he lead the league in ws 5 straight years

he's possibly vastly underrated depending on the criteria

[Phoenix]

that's hard to say

he lead the league in scoring 3 times shaq 2

he lead the league in rebounding 1 time shaq 0

johnston could actually shoot ft

he lead the league in ws 5 straight years

he's possibly vastly underrated depending on the criteria

Well ok, take out the 'we' part. Where would you put him? I only mentioned his name to make a point about agenda-driven stat usage, but you're bringing up points that seem to suggest it's not the most batshit insane idea having him high up on the GOAT list( which, for the record, is all incredibly subjective stuff).

[post]

Well ok, take out the 'we' part. Where would you put him? I only mentioned his name to make a point about agenda-driven stat usage, but you're bringing up points that seem to suggest it's not the most batshit insane idea having him high up on the GOAT list( which, for the record, is all incredibly subjective stuff).

i don't have a list but i'll tell you this

jordan lead the league in ws 7 straight years

wilt lebron johnston 5 straight years

that's great company to keep for johnston

[Bankaii]

Lowry + role players? The Heat stacked as hell.
Oladipo, Lowry, and Bam are all recent allstars. Herro is the 6MotY.
Tucker is one the best role players in the league, Robinson is a sniper, Spo is a solid coach.
Why do y’all only apply the broken “stacked team” argument against certain players.

[3ba11]

Lowry + role players? The Heat stacked as hell.
Oladipo, Lowry, and Bam are all recent allstars. Herro is the 6MotY.
Tucker is one the best role players in the league, Robinson is a sniper, Spo is a solid coach.
Why do y’all only apply the broken “stacked team” argument against certain players.


* Zydrunas - 2x all-star... 18/9 and 2.5 blocks in 2005 when Lebron missed playoffs

* Mo Williams - 1x all-star with higher PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP than 90' Pippen

* Larry Hughes - 22/6/5 with 1st team defense in the season before joining Lebron

* Jamison - 2x all-star and 22/9 before joining Lebron

* Anderson Varejao - all-defender

* Shaq - 2009 all-star MVP... 12/7 and 1.5 blocks as 5th option alongside Lebron.. Ben Wallace also averaged nearly 2 block for Lebron

* Mike Brown - COY with top-rated defenses from 07-10'



^^^ STACKED

[Bankaii]

Most of the guys you listed weren’t even on the Cavs at the same time.
I’m not even gonna bother destroying that post:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Most of the guys you listed weren’t even on the Cavs at the same time.
I’m not even gonna bother destroying that post:oldlol:


Only Hughes wasn't on the 2010 team - everyone else was - so you're lying and deflecting because you can't face that reality that Lebron couldn't win a weak East in 09/10 - so he ran away and formed super-teams like a bitch

There's a reason that Lebron's inferior stats achieved higher seeds and records than 80's Jordan - it's because his cast was far superior and stacked with decorated vets

[Shooter]

Is OP trying to set the record for most incorrect/lowest IQ predictions?

[3ba11]

Is OP trying to set the record for most incorrect/lowest IQ predictions?


I didn't predict anything itt

I said that Lowry + role players was enough to win this year and 2019, which is true.

A bounce here or there and the Heat win

Butler already carried a worse cast to the Finals in 2020 without Lowry

It's the weakest conference ever where 1-star teams routinely win, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

[Shooter]

I didn't predict anything itt

I said that Lowry + role players was enough to win this year and 2019, which is true.

A bounce here or there and the Heat win

Butler already carried a worse cast to the Finals in 2020 without Lowry

It's the weakest conference ever where 1-star teams routinely win, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

You're retarded. Kobe is borderline top 12. LeBron is top 1. Goodnight.

[3ba11]

You're retarded. Kobe is borderline top 12. LeBron is top 1. Goodnight.


Lebron is a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) and never learned how to win (teammate fits, chemistry, brand of ball)

In addition to not knowing how to win, Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals)

Since Lebron doesn't know how to win and can't defeat maximum defensive attention, he's nowhere near Kobe and among the most overrated players ever

Imagine having a skillset that prevents you from winning organically due to poor teammate fits and chemistry and brand of ball.. He literally MUST team-hop.. It's pathetic

[post]

* Zydrunas - 2x all-star... 18/9 and 2.5 blocks in 2005 when Lebron missed playoffs

* Mo Williams - 1x all-star with higher PER, WS/48, BPM and VORP than 90' Pippen

* Larry Hughes - 22/6/5 with 1st team defense in the season before joining Lebron

* Jamison - 2x all-star and 22/9 before joining Lebron

* Anderson Varejao - all-defender

* Shaq - 2009 all-star MVP... 12/7 and 1.5 blocks as 5th option alongside Lebron.. Ben Wallace also averaged nearly 2 block for Lebron

* Mike Brown - COY with top-rated defenses from 07-10'



^^^ STACKED

hughes not on team

z was a corpse by that point

shaq was breathing his last couple breaths

jamison and williams were barely positives and negatives in the playoffs

at least varejao showed up and played some defense in the playoffs

lebron was great in 09 and 10

i don't agree with his decision to run to miami

but as i said you are either severely dumb or severely insane probably the latter

[post]

3ball certainly isn't funny so if he thinks he is by trolling he's severely mistaken again

[post]

he's about as funny as spursm8 calling someone a c word 20,000 times

[Axe]

he's about as funny as spursm8 calling someone a c word 20,000 times
:lol

Scrotum m8 is as soggy as he gets

[Spurs m8]

7 pages of bronnie meltdowns

God you're all pathetic :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

[post]

I didn't predict anything itt

I said that Lowry + role players was enough to win this year and 2019, which is true.

A bounce here or there and the Heat win

Butler already carried a worse cast to the Finals in 2020 without Lowry

It's the weakest conference ever where 1-star teams routinely win, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in

butler had more help in 20 than lebron in 09 and 10

he certainly didn't play better

it's that simple

[post]

3ball may be a masochist who enjoys punching himself in the face every time someone humiliates him here

[post]

i'm not a sadist or a masochist so i learned to ignore him for the most part

[post]

interacting with 3ball or kblaze is not a good idea

they are full of pseudo-substance or in other words shit

[post]

spursm8 doesn't even pretend to be intelligent

[post]

how often do you think these people were beaten as children

daily basis i'd say

[3ba11]

butler had more help in 20 than lebron in 09 and 10





Nonsense

Lebron easily had better team defense and better 2nd and 3rd scoring options with Jamison and Mo, while also having a ton of decorated vets like all-defender Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas, and many more.

It isn't even close.. You act like Lebron is the first guy to put up those numbers - he wasn't carrying the team more than other guys have and simply had a superior cast on both sides of the ball.

[post]

No he didn't. Lebron easily had better team defense and better 2nd and 3rd scoring options with Jamison and Mo, while also having a ton of decorated vets like all-defender Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas, and many more.

It isn't even close.. You act like Lebron is the first guy to put up those numbers - he didn't have superior stats than 80's Jordan, so the 60+ wins was due to a far superior cast on both sides of the ball..

don't talk to me you virus

[3ba11]

don't talk to me you virus


The 09' and 10' Cavs had a far better team defense than the 20' Heat and better 2nd and 3rd scoring options with Jamison/Mo, while also having a ton of decorated vets like all-defender Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas, and many more.

So it isn't remotely close - Lebron's cast was far superior, which is why he was the league favorite

[post]

The 09' and 10' Cavs had a far better team defense than the 20' Heat and better 2nd and 3rd scoring options with Jamison/Mo, while also having a ton of decorated vets like all-defender Varejao, Shaq, Zydrunas, and many more.

So it isn't remotely close - Lebron's cast was far superior, which is why he was the league favorite

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DiscreteAthleticEstuarinecrocodile-size_restricted.gif

[SATAN]

interacting with 3ball or kblaze is not a good idea

they are full of pseudo-substance or in other words shit

Atleast kblaze post good gifs and knows basketball lol

[post]

Atleast kblaze post good gifs and knows basketball lol

another serial killer heard from

[Axe]

post, i'm not sure who you are exactly. But i think you sound like DoctorP lol.

[post]

post, i'm not sure who you are exactly. But i think you sound like DoctorP lol.

name sounds familiar

i'm me

[Shooter]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DiscreteAthleticEstuarinecrocodile-size_restricted.gif

:roll::roll: