Didn’t Curry play with KD for 2 years and was it even debattable who was better?

[Nb1]

It’s tough to say who’s better than who when you’re playing with different teams. I mean, if you’re playing with 5 all stars and a good bench and the other guy has 1 all star and scrubs, 9/10 times the better team will win no matter how good you are.

But in this case, both played together and when they did, every single person said KD was way better and it wasn’t even debattable back then. So why now? Steph sh** his pants vs Raptors and missed 2 yrs of playoffs till then because 1 of his 10 all star teammates was injured and KD single handily almost eliminated last years champs.

If anything it should be even more clear that he’s by far the superior player. The difference is, Steph is playing with a deep team full of all stars and faced Den, Mem and Dallas this year whose players have never even seen a finals before and KD was playing all alone with the Kyrie/Harden and Simmons sh** show.

Put KD in Steph’s position and the Warriors sweep everyone.

[warriorfan]

Low iq meltdown.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuP6-puSfRs


That vid is a gold mine:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211834.jpg


:oldlol:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211237.jpg


Steph doubled on the sideline leaving KD with a wide open drive.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211152.jpg

[warriorfan]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211359.jpg

Not a good look

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211750.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gjxVZdty/04-A98076-0-A90-4-E4-B-9094-750-EDBEFAE70.jpg

[tontoz]

Warriors still had an elite record in the games Durant missed. Without Steph, not so much.

[DMAVS41]

It never made sense, at all, for the Durant people to say things like..."Curry has to prove he can win without Durant"...considering Curry already won without Durant and Durant has doing nothing noteworthy on that front in his career without Steph on his team.

However, even if you adopted that flawed thinking...that argument is now toast. Not only did the Warriors easily make the finals without Durant back in 19, but now they've done it again...years later, with a different squad and Klay coming off major injury.

You can say Durant is individually better...and based on definitions or semantics...many might agree...but being the best basketball player is not determined by how good you are in a pickup game....you are not just your skillset...despite what some say. Is that a majority of it? Yep, but there is much else that moves the needle....and guys like Steph / Duncan / Dirk, in terms of the post Jordan era...get under-rated....whereas guys like Chris Paul and Durant get over-rated imo.

You see people reaching for answers. Talking about how good Manu was as a rookie even though he wasn't...or saying that Draymond is more important than Steph...or that Jason Terry was consistently good enough in the playoffs...all to try and explain why these so-called "inferior players" have better results than you'd expect.

If it was so easy to make 6 finals in 8 years...more players would so it...especially players that are better. If it was so easy to win 50 every damn year like Duncan and Dirk did...with Dirk's cast / coaching changing a lot...more players would do it.

The truth is that Durant should be better than Steph, but he isn't...he hasn't been...he's come up short leading teams. That matters more than what he did or would do at Rucker Park. All that skill goes out the window when he's shitting the bed shooting 41% TS in game 6 at home to close out the Warriors in 2016 with a 4th qtr lead. Nobody made him do that...it was the biggest game of his career and he was awful...and they still almost beat a dynasty level team...he had real help...he played like shit and blew it.

And, despite what KD and his fans want, over time unless he proves he can lead and come through as the leader of a championship team...there will always be questions. We all already knew he could fill in for Harrison Barnes and win on the Warriors.

This isn't a KG in Minny situation for KD outside of the Warriors...he's had real help...better help than most in history get...and there is nothing noteworthy about his results.

Hopefully we get to see something before he declines.

[DMAVS41]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H?format=jpg&name=medium

[Nb1]

It never made sense, at all, for the Durant people to say things like..."Curry has to prove he can win without Durant"...considering Curry already won without Durant and Durant has doing nothing noteworthy on that front in his career without Steph on his team.

However, even if you adopted that flawed thinking...that argument is now toast. Not only did the Warriors easily make the finals without Durant back in 19, but now they've done it again...years later, with a different squad and Klay coming off major injury.

You can say Durant is individually better...and based on definitions or semantics...many might agree...but being the best basketball player is not determined by how good you are in a pickup game....you are not just your skillset...despite what some say. Is that a majority of it? Yep, but there is much else that moves the needle....and guys like Steph / Duncan / Dirk, in terms of the post Jordan era...get under-rated....whereas guys like Chris Paul and Durant get over-rated imo.

You see people reaching for answers. Talking about how good Manu was as a rookie even though he wasn't...or saying that Draymond is more important than Steph...or that Jason Terry was consistently good enough in the playoffs...all to try and explain why these so-called "inferior players" have better results than you'd expect.

If it was so easy to make 6 finals in 8 years...more players would so it...especially players that are better. If it was so easy to win 50 every damn year like Duncan and Dirk did...with Dirk's cast / coaching changing a lot...more players would do it.

The truth is that Durant should be better than Steph, but he isn't...he hasn't been...he's come up short leading teams. That matters more than what he did or would do at Rucker Park. All that skill goes out the window when he's shitting the bed shooting 41% TS in game 6 at home to close out the Warriors in 2016 with a 4th qtr lead. Nobody made him do that...it was the biggest game of his career and he was awful...and they still almost beat a dynasty level team...he had real help...he played like shit and blew it.

And, despite what KD and his fans want, over time unless he proves he can lead and come through as the leader of a championship team...there will always be questions. We all already knew he could fill in for Harrison Barnes and win on the Warriors.

This isn't a KG in Minny situation for KD outside of the Warriors...he's had real help...better help than most in history get...and there is nothing noteworthy about his results.

Hopefully we get to see something before he declines.

What did Curry win without Durant? He beat a Cavs team with Dellavedova, Shumpert, Mozgov and Thompson as starters with no bench lol. And even then, he wasn't even the best player on that team... Same this year, it was a Dallas team with literally 1 great player. No one would even chose Luka's 2nd best teammate over the Warriors 7th worst player. Put him with a hobbled Harden vs the Bucks last year or on the Nets this year and they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

[Nb1]

Lol at showing me regular season stats :roll:. Show me postseason please.

Also Curry was 1-4 in 2019 and didn't even make the playoffs last year when he didn't have 10 all stars next to him lol.

[hold this L]

What did Curry win without Durant? He beat a Cavs team with Dellavedova, Shumpert, Mozgov and Thompson as starters with no bench lol. And even then, he wasn't even the best player on that team... Same this year, it was a Dallas team with literally 1 great player. No one would even chose Luka's 2nd best teammate over the Warriors 7th worst player. Put him with a hobbled Harden vs the Bucks last year or on the Nets this year and they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

He beat 3 1st-All NBA players on his way to the final, which is 2 more than Lebron's 8 year run and 24 playoff series! YIKES!!

:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

What did Curry win without Durant? He beat a Cavs team with Dellavedova, Shumpert, Mozgov and Thompson as starters with no bench lol. And even then, he wasn't even the best player on that team... Same this year, it was a Dallas team with literally 1 great player. No one would even chose Luka's 2nd best teammate over the Warriors 7th worst player. Put him with a hobbled Harden vs the Bucks last year or on the Nets this year and they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

He won a title without Durant, had the best regular season team ever, won 2 MVP's...made the Finals in 19 without Durant (injured)...and now made the Finals again in 22 without Durant.

He's won 4 Western Conference Finals series and a title without Durant...that is a lot.

Oh, and in 2016...what did he win? Again, he won the WCF...who did he beat? Durant...a Durant led team that still was up in the 4th qtr...despite Durant shooting 41%TS for the biggest game of his career....at home...to make the finals. Sorry, but that matters whether you like it or not when it comes to comparing these guys.

:confusedshrug:

Also, some of those numbers include playoffs. Remember, Durant was injured in 19 when the Warriors easily made the Finals. They went 5-0 in the West in the playoffs without him iirc.

[Shogon]

Stephen Curry is the best 5 on 5 basketball player that ever lived on the offensive side of the ball.

I hate hyperbolic statements, and the truth is all of this shit is unknowable and just for entertainment. And if he has a different coach that doesn't utilize his strengths, maybe not, idk.

But things are how they are, and Steph is easily the biggest offensive force in the history of the game. He has higher gravity than peak Shaquille O'Neal who was getting doubled evey play or dunking in someone's face.

Just watch the games. You don't even need to look at the stats. Open your eyes.

It's obvious.

There has never been a single player in the history of the NBA that has disrupted opposing defenses as much as Curry. This is not an opinion, it's not debatable, it's factually "provable."

It's as obvious as the fact that he's the GOAT shooter.

Durant has never been nor will he ever be a better 5 on 5 player than Curry. 1 on 1, Durant all day... and this confuses people. But the NBA is 5 on 5 and it's Curry by a mile.

Anyone who disagrees is either stupid or irrationally biased.


At the end of the game in which your team is gassed and you need someone to create a bucket by themselves, is Curry your guy to impose his will on the game and beat his man off the dribble and get you a bucket by himself? No. But that's such a niche thing that I don't see how someone could use that as a disqualifier.

[1987_Lakers]

Durant for sure outplayed Curry in those postseason runs, but it's also true that defenses mostly focused on Curry and he was also clearly the team's most important player. It seems silly to me that Durant is throwing a temper tantrum over this, he played at an all-time level in those runs. Deep down, the root of this insecurity is he knows joining a 73 win team was a weak move.

Still blows my mind that Curry & Durant joined forces at the peak of their careers. It's well likely that Curry will at least go down as a top 2 PG ever while Durant will end up being a top 3 SF ever.

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220601-115017.jpg

[1987_Lakers]

I saw the Draymond/Cowherd podcast yesterday morning when he said that about the double teams, I didn't think much of it because anyone who follows ball knows it's true. KD's reaction to it has blown this thing up, now every media outlet and fans are talking about it. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

I don’t doubt Durant is extremely thin skinned, but the reason he’s SO defensive and insecure about his Warriors stint is deep down, he knows all the criticisms are valid. If someone tweeted that he was a bad shooter or scorer, he wouldn’t give it a second thought because it’s ridiculous. But the Warriors criticisms get to him because he knows they’re true.

[hold this L]

I don’t doubt Durant is extremely thin skinned, but the reason he’s SO defensive and insecure about his Warriors stint is deep down, he knows all the criticisms are valid. If someone tweeted that he was a bad shooter or scorer, he wouldn’t give it a second thought because it’s ridiculous. But the Warriors criticisms get to him because he knows they’re true.

KD really shouldn't be insecure, but that's his personality. The guy was incredible for 3 straight seasons.

[red1]

kd's chickens coming home to roost he's just salty that no one cares about his two wins



he knows the warriors might have won without him

[Manny98]

Huge KD Stan but even I have to admit that Curry was the best player on the team and that he deserved FMVP in 2017

[AlternativeAcc.]

It actually wasn't debatable

Durant was better on both sides by a big margin and walked away with all the hardware

He carried steph and actually allowed steph to have some decent finals because of Durants gravity... curry is putrid in the finals without durant, while durant averaged 30 in the finals at age 23 with westbrick as 2nd option

The comparison was never close. Steph is a poor man's dame Lillard

[hold this L]

Huge KD Stan but even I have to admit that Curry was the best player on the team and that he deserved FMVP in 2017

I have seen enough, Manny is the goat of ISH

:bowdown:

[AlternativeAcc.]

I have seen enough, Manny is the goat of ISH

:bowdown:

Durant averaged 35/8/5 on 70% TS

Curry averaged 26 and choked away the Warriors perfect post season record in close our game 4 by shooting 4-13 14 points and allowing irving to drop 40

Fmvp though :roll:

[warriorfan]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220601-115017.jpg

Damn.

Curry saw 20x the amount of defensive coverage as KD.

I knew it was a lot from watching the games but that really puts it into perspective.

KD got a big head after putting up points in an open gym setting while the entire team covered Curry. Thought he could do it on his own….:roll:

Nice try GayD, you exposed and played yourself.

[Manny98]

I have seen enough, Manny is the goat of ISH

:bowdown:

:cheers:

[Manny98]

Durant averaged 35/8/5 on 70% TS

Curry averaged 26 and choked away the Warriors perfect post season record in close our game 4 by shooting 4-13 14 points and allowing irving to drop 40

Fmvp though :roll:
The only reason Durant was able to score as well as he did was because of Curry's gravity and the vast attention he drew for defenses every possession

Impact wise Curry was easily the best player in the finals

[AlternativeAcc.]

The only reason Durant was able to score as well as he did was because of Curry's gravity and the vast attention he drew for defenses every possession

Impact wise Curry was easily the best player in the finals

That's why Poole averages all NBA 1st numbers WITHOUT curry in the lineup, must be Curry's gravity from the bench

It's Durants gravity that allowed Curry to finally have decent finals series, Durant without Curry averaged 30 at age 23 with Westbrick as 2nd option against peak Heat/LeBron (goat tier perimeter defense)

Durant last year vs. Champion Bucks averaged 35/11/5 on stellar efficiency, no curry in sight (better than anything curry has ever done by far)

[Shogon]

That's why Poole averages all NBA 1st numbers WITHOUT curry in the lineup, must be Curry's gravity from the bench

It's Durants gravity that allowed Curry to finally have decent finals series, Durant without Curry averaged 30 at age 23 with Westbrick as 2nd option against peak Heat/LeBron (goat tier perimeter defense)

Durant last year vs. Champion Bucks averaged 35/11/5 on stellar efficiency, no curry in sight (better than anything curry has ever done by far)


https://i.postimg.cc/fWqs0P7G/grav.jpg

These are the 2013 to 2019 seasons.

Notice Curry from beyond the 3 point line has higher gravity than any other player from anywhere else on the court including in the paint. This opens the floor up completely for everyone and leads to regular open shots if the team's passing is on point.

To his credit, Durant in OKC was quite high up on the list, but when you understand that not only is Curry attracting the most defensive attention and then you realize he's doing it from the 3 point line, it's easy to see how defenses break down with him more than any other player... I mean... most defensive attention... and most floor spacing.

Pretty easy to see, even if you don't watch the games.

[tontoz]

That's why Poole averages all NBA 1st numbers WITHOUT curry in the lineup, must be Curry's gravity from the bench

It's Durants gravity that allowed Curry to finally have decent finals series, Durant without Curry averaged 30 at age 23 with Westbrick as 2nd option against peak Heat/LeBron (goat tier perimeter defense)

Durant last year vs. Champion Bucks averaged 35/11/5 on stellar efficiency, no curry in sight (better than anything curry has ever done by far)



In the 2016 playoffs KD had a TS of 54%. The following year's playoffs playing with Steph he had a 68% TS.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211102.jpg

[Shogon]

This is why defenses break down.

https://i.postimg.cc/XYsNQv9v/threegrav.jpg

[tpols]

You guys realize KD averaged better than peak Shaq production in the Finals / playoffs right? With the warriors that is. Curry and KD were basically Shaq and Kobe. They BOTH had superstar production. So they both get superstar rings.

If Durant had averaged like 20 a game I would agree. He dropped 35 on 70TS in the Finals. Sorry but he gets credit for that.

[Shogon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FAz4QCcQHc

Notice the wide open dunks Durant is getting because the Cavs are terrified of Curry and completely abandoning the rim? LMAO.

[AlternativeAcc.]

In the 2016 playoffs KD had a TS of 54%. The following year's playoffs playing with Steph he had a 68% TS.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211102.jpg

What's your point.. he played with Westbrick and Dion Waiters, and the series vs. the number 1 ranked defense takes up a large portion of the sample



Durant didn't just play with Curry...


He shot over 60% TS without Curry in the playoffs as well

[tpols]

That's why Poole averages all NBA 1st numbers WITHOUT curry in the lineup, must be Curry's gravity from the bench

It's Durants gravity that allowed Curry to finally have decent finals series, Durant without Curry averaged 30 at age 23 with Westbrick as 2nd option against peak Heat/LeBron (goat tier perimeter defense)

Durant last year vs. Champion Bucks averaged 35/11/5 on stellar efficiency, no curry in sight (better than anything curry has ever done by far)

Yup. Any argument that Durant can't dominate outside Curry was squashed last year when he hung like 35 in the playoffs and was probably a pinky toe away from a ring. Injured trae hawks and choking suns couldve lost to Brooklyn quite easily.

The path was wide open after the bucks and what makes it more impressive is that the Nets lost 2/3 of their best players, the bucks had perfectly healthy Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue... and yet they still would've lost if not for one single pinky toe on the line.

[tpols]

In the 2016 playoffs KD had a TS of 54%. The following year's playoffs playing with Steph he had a 68% TS.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211102.jpg

What was Durants TS last year with the Nets in the playoffs with his whole team getting hurt?

[Bronbron23]

It never made sense, at all, for the Durant people to say things like..."Curry has to prove he can win without Durant"...considering Curry already won without Durant and Durant has doing nothing noteworthy on that front in his career without Steph on his team.

However, even if you adopted that flawed thinking...that argument is now toast. Not only did the Warriors easily make the finals without Durant back in 19, but now they've done it again...years later, with a different squad and Klay coming off major injury.

You can say Durant is individually better...and based on definitions or semantics...many might agree...but being the best basketball player is not determined by how good you are in a pickup game....you are not just your skillset...despite what some say. Is that a majority of it? Yep, but there is much else that moves the needle....and guys like Steph / Duncan / Dirk, in terms of the post Jordan era...get under-rated....whereas guys like Chris Paul and Durant get over-rated imo.

You see people reaching for answers. Talking about how good Manu was as a rookie even though he wasn't...or saying that Draymond is more important than Steph...or that Jason Terry was consistently good enough in the playoffs...all to try and explain why these so-called "inferior players" have better results than you'd expect.

If it was so easy to make 6 finals in 8 years...more players would so it...especially players that are better. If it was so easy to win 50 every damn year like Duncan and Dirk did...with Dirk's cast / coaching changing a lot...more players would do it.

The truth is that Durant should be better than Steph, but he isn't...he hasn't been...he's come up short leading teams. That matters more than what he did or would do at Rucker Park. All that skill goes out the window when he's shitting the bed shooting 41% TS in game 6 at home to close out the Warriors in 2016 with a 4th qtr lead. Nobody made him do that...it was the biggest game of his career and he was awful...and they still almost beat a dynasty level team...he had real help...he played like shit and blew it.

And, despite what KD and his fans want, over time unless he proves he can lead and come through as the leader of a championship team...there will always be questions. We all already knew he could fill in for Harrison Barnes and win on the Warriors.

This isn't a KG in Minny situation for KD outside of the Warriors...he's had real help...better help than most in history get...and there is nothing noteworthy about his results.

Hopefully we get to see something before he declines.
Durant would of beat LeBron also if Wade and bosh went out like kyrie and love went out against Steph.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yup. Any argument that Durant can't dominate outside Curry was squashed last year when he hung like 35 in the playoffs and was probably a pinky toe away from a ring. Injured trae hawks and choking suns couldve lost to Brooklyn quite easily.

The path was wide open after the bucks and what makes it more impressive is that the Nets lost 2/3 of their best players, the bucks had Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue... and yet they [I]still[/] would've lost if not for one single pinky toe on the line.

Exactly... averaged like 35ppg on 63% TS for the playoffs without Irving and hobbled Harden

Of course if you put him on a team with Steph and Klay his efficiency will go up, but that's a credit to his ability to fit in any system and dominate in a way those guys can't (in the paint, midrange)

Durant is just a better and more versatile offensive player. Size matters

[AlternativeAcc.]

Durant would of beat LeBron also if Wade and bosh went out like kyrie and love went out against Steph.

Bingo.. great point


OKC EASILY wins in 2012 if Wade and Bosh go out like Irving and Love did in 2015. Hilarious people bring up Curry winning in 2015 as some sort of argument for Curry when Durant at age 23 did something much more impressive. And we know in hindsight Westbrick is the biggest joke ever and the rest of the OKC role players were straight garbage. That's the series Harden averaged like 12ppg and let the world know he's a massive choker

[tontoz]

What's your point.. he played with Westbrick and Dion Waiters, and the series vs. the number 1 ranked defense takes up a large portion of the sample



Durant didn't just play with Curry...


He shot over 60% TS without Curry in the playoffs as well


Waiters shot 37.5% from 3 in the 2016 playoffs. Ibaka shot 45%. Westbrook shot 32%.

KD shot 28%. :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Waiters shot 37.5% from 3 in the 2016 playoffs. Ibaka shot 45%. Westbrook shot 32%.

KD shot 28%. :oldlol:

Because of Durant's insane gravity. See? I can do that too. Durant made shit look like Gold. Overachieved with garbage players.


We see Durant having insane 35+ppg series while Curry never has and never will. Curry is a glorified reggie miller without the clutch gene


https://images4.imagebam.com/82/73/08/MEB3GNO_o.png

[Bronbron23]

Exactly... averaged like 35ppg on 63% TS for the playoffs without Irving and hobbled Harden

Of course if you put him on a team with Steph and Klay his efficiency will go up, but that's a credit to his ability to fit in any system and dominate in a way those guys can't (in the paint, midrange)

Durant is just a better and more versatile offensive player. Size matters

Yeah man. People act like warriors were a Dynasty before kd but they weren't even close. They had one asterisk ring followed by an epic meltdown/beatdown against Bron. Bron was amazing and did everything he could to make that happen but Steph definitely helped.

[tpols]

Yeah man. People act like warriors were a Dynasty before kd but they weren't even close. They had one asterisk ring followed by an epic meltdown/beatdown against Bron. Bron was amazing and did everything he could to make that happen but Steph definitely helped.

How is losing by 1 shot in a Game 7 an epic beat down? Curry had a poor series with his 23 ppg but LeBron had an even worse one in the 2011 Finals where he put up 18. Literally outscored by Jason terry off the bench.

What the Mavs did to the suns this year was an epic beat down. Losing by 1-2 possessions in a 7 game series while facing all types of teammate loss doesntqualify as such.

The warriors won 73 games and were a bogus post game decided suspension from beating Cleveland in 5 games. They averaged 70 wins per season before Durant and were a shot away from back to back titles. That is dynasty stuff.

[DMAVS41]

Durant would of beat LeBron also if Wade and bosh went out like kyrie and love went out against Steph.

Most likely he would have, but so would all the other greats as well if we are just granting titles like that.

End of the day...KD has not done enough in his career outside the Warriors to warrant being ranked above Curry or a whole host of players he is ranked above. He's been great...but just like your point above...what would that even prove? We aren't talking about whether he is great...or even all-time great...literally everyone agrees with that.

It is about how great...and he just hasn't proved enough to warrant getting the nod imo...maybe he will in the future.

[tontoz]

Because of Durant's insane gravity. See? I can do that too. Durant made shit look like Gold. Overachieved with garbage players.


We see Durant having insane 35+ppg series while Curry never has and never will. Curry is a glorified reggie miller without the clutch gene


https://images4.imagebam.com/82/73/08/MEB3GNO_o.png

Based on that chart Durant isnt clutch either. Maybe looking at so few shots isn't a representative sample.

Funny how Durant didn't make the others look like gold with GS when Steph was out.

[AlternativeAcc.]

How is losing by 1 shot in a Game 7 an epic beat down? Curry had a poor series with his 23 ppg but LeBron had an even worse one in the 2011 Finals where he put up 18. Literally outscored by Jason terry off the bench.

The warriors won 73 games and were a bogus post game decided suspension from beating Cleveland in 5 games. They averaged 70 wins per season before Durant and were a shot away from back to back titles. That is dynasty stuff.
But their 2015 doesn't mean anything when the opposing team lost 2 of their best 3 players.

You think Kobe is beating the Celtics in 2010 without Pau and Artest?

Imagine Steph lost Dray and Klay for the 2015 finals. Would you consider that legit for LeBron? Of course you wouldn't... be consistent. 2015 doesn't count... stop mentioning that as a win. The Cavs beat a better version of that 2015 team in the finals despite going down 3-1. LeBron made curry his bitch forever

[AlternativeAcc.]

Most likely he would have, but so would all the other greats as well if we are just granting titles like that.

End of the day...KD has not done enough in his career outside the Warriors to warrant being ranked above Curry or a whole host of players he is ranked above. He's been great...but just like your point above...what would that even prove? We aren't talking about whether he is great...or even all-time great...literally everyone agrees with that.

It is about how great...and he just hasn't proved enough to warrant getting the nod imo...maybe he will in the future.
Your biggest argument for Curry is he won without Durant

But Durant would've easily won in 2012 as a 23 year old against much stiffer competition and putting up better numbers than Curry in 2015 had the Heat lost their 2nd and 3rd options like the Cavs did


People need to stop bringing up 2015. It doesn't count for anything.. that series almost went 7 games and curry lost fmvp to a role player. Just stop

[AlternativeAcc.]

Based on that chart Durant isnt clutch either. Maybe looking at so few shots isn't a representative sample.

Funny how Durant didn't make the others look like gold with GS when Steph was out.

0%


Fitting he and Westbrick are at 0% :oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Most likely he would have, but so would all the other greats as well if we are just granting titles like that.

End of the day...KD has not done enough in his career outside the Warriors to warrant being ranked above Curry or a whole host of players he is ranked above. He's been great...but just like your point above...what would that even prove? We aren't talking about whether he is great...or even all-time great...literally everyone agrees with that.

It is about how great...and he just hasn't proved enough to warrant getting the nod imo...maybe he will in the future.

Also Durant owns Curry in career stats/resume

Better averages, more scoring titles, more all nba, more all star, ROY, better per, ws, FMVP's etc... literally EVERYTHING



"KD hasn't done enough"

:roll:

[tpols]

But their 2015 doesn't mean anything when the opposing team lost 2 of their best 3 players.

You think Kobe is beating the Celtics in 2010 without Pau and Artest?

Imagine Steph lost Dray and Klay for the 2015 finals. Would you consider that legit for LeBron? Of course you wouldn't... be consistent. 2015 doesn't count... stop mentioning that as a win. The Cavs beat a better version of that 2015 team in the finals despite going down 3-1. LeBron made curry his bitch forever

The 2016 Warriors were clearly better than Cleveland bro. They whooped their ass regular season and playoffs all year long until dray caught one of the most controversial suspensions ever (that was based on a post game upgrade different from the in game call) and Bogut snapped his leg in half. There went their touted rim protection.

And the 2016 Cavs were higher title odds favorites than the Warriors were. Cleveland was +280 and the Warriors were +480. I bet you didn't know that.

But the warriors played with GOAT chemistry and EXCEEDED their expectations. Curry holds a 15-7 playoff record against LeBron. 3-1 title advantage. He cooks Lebrons simple playground style.

Even this year the Dubs were +1100 title odds contenders and Lebrons Lakers were +425.

:biggums:

And Curry has his team in the Finals while LeBron led an 11 seed! Absurd.

[tontoz]

0%


Fitting he and Westbrick are at 0% :oldlol:


0% isn't even relevant when we are talking about 9 shots out of 2500 playoff shot attempts. Keep reaching.




https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211834.jpg

[AlternativeAcc.]

0% isn't even relevant when we are talking about 9 shots out of 2500 playoff shot attempts. Keep reaching.




https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211834.jpg

So your argument is chemistry

Put Curry on OKC with westbrick and they're lottery


Sorry buddy

[AlternativeAcc.]

The 2016 Warriors were clearly better than Cleveland bro. They whooped their ass regular season and playoffs all year long until dray caught one of the most controversial suspensions ever (that was based on a post game upgrade different from the in game call) and Bogut snapped his leg in half. There went their touted rim protection.

And the 2016 Cavs were higher title odds favorites than the Warriors were. Cleveland was +280 and the Warriors were +480. I bet you didn't know that.

But the warriors played with GOAT chemistry and EXCEEDED their expectations. Curry holds a 15-7 playoff record against LeBron. 3-1 title advantage. He cooks Lebrons simple playground style.

Even this year the Dubs were +1100 title odds contenders and Lebrons Lakers were +425.

:biggums:

And Curry has his team in the Finals while LeBron led an 11 seed! Absurd.

You bring up Dray missing 1 game but Irving and Love missed the whole series in 2015

You also ignored my other points. If Curry lost Dray and Klay in 16 or 15 before the finals would you consider it legit for LeBron?

And I know the Warriors were better in 16... that's why it's the GOAT accomplishment for LeBron who made Curry his bitch all series. LeBron played poorly in 11 but made it up every finals after that and has 4 FMVP's to his name. Curry has zilch in 5 tries. Pre-season odds are meaningless... i guess if that's all you got then :oldlol:

[tontoz]

So your argument is chemistry

Put Curry on OKC with westbrick and they're lottery


Sorry buddy


They play the same position so of course it would be a bad fit. Duh

Why are defenders leaving Durant wide open and doubling Curry? So strange

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211029.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211102.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211152.jpg

[AlternativeAcc.]

They play the same position so of course it would be a bad fit. Duh

Why are defenders leaving Durant wide open and doubling Curry? So strange

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211029.jpg

Poor strategy from a shitty coach. Lue is a moron

Curry shit the bed vs. Delly in 2015, so doubling him is moronic.

[tontoz]

Poor strategy from a shitty coach. Lue is a moron

Curry shit the bed vs. Delly in 2015, so doubling him is moronic.



So LeGM chose a moron to be his coach? OK

[Bronbron23]

How is losing by 1 shot in a Game 7 an epic beat down? Curry had a poor series with his 23 ppg but LeBron had an even worse one in the 2011 Finals where he put up 18. Literally outscored by Jason terry off the bench.

What the Mavs did to the suns this year was an epic beat down. Losing by 1-2 possessions in a 7 game series while facing all types of teammate loss doesntqualify as such.

The warriors won 73 games and were a bogus post game decided suspension from beating Cleveland in 5 games. They averaged 70 wins per season before Durant and were a shot away from back to back titles. That is dynasty stuff.

Well I meant more he beat Steph down. He blocked him several times and talked trash and basically sonned him. It was embarassing.

I can't argue your 11 Mavs argument. Bron was trash. He was definitely worse than curry in 16. Not sure how that's relevant to this topic.

[8Ball]

I don’t doubt Durant is extremely thin skinned, but the reason he’s SO defensive and insecure about his Warriors stint is deep down, he knows all the criticisms are valid. If someone tweeted that he was a bad shooter or scorer, he wouldn’t give it a second thought because it’s ridiculous. But the Warriors criticisms get to him because he knows they’re true.

LeBron family bullied him into marrying Kyrie.

What a time. Online bullying apparently works.

[SouBeachTalents]

The 2016 Warriors were clearly better than Cleveland bro. They whooped their ass regular season and playoffs all year long until dray caught one of the most controversial suspensions ever (that was based on a post game upgrade different from the in game call) and Bogut snapped his leg in half. There went their touted rim protection.

And the 2016 Cavs were higher title odds favorites than the Warriors were. Cleveland was +280 and the Warriors were +480. I bet you didn't know that.

But the warriors played with GOAT chemistry and EXCEEDED their expectations. Curry holds a 15-7 playoff record against LeBron. 3-1 title advantage. He cooks Lebrons simple playground style.

Even this year the Dubs were +1100 title odds contenders and Lebrons Lakers were +425.

:biggums:

And Curry has his team in the Finals while LeBron led an 11 seed! Absurd.
It is insane how Curry managed to beat LeBron in those Finals, esp against all odds in ‘15 & ‘18.

[warriorfan]

It is insane how Curry managed to beat LeBron in those Finals, esp against all odds in ‘15 & ‘18.

It’s insane how Curry turned one of the worst franchises in the league into one of the greatest dynasties of all time.

I wonder why bran couldn’t do it.

[tontoz]

It’s insane how Curry turned one of the worst franchises in the league into one of the greatest dynasties of all time.

I wonder why bran couldn’t do it.



Seriously their team was awful for a long time. From '94 to 2012 they had 2 winning seasons and 9 sub 30 win seasons.

[SouBeachTalents]

It’s insane how Curry turned one of the worst franchises in the league into one of the greatest dynasties of all time.

I wonder why bran couldn’t do it.
Peak Kevin Durant helps. Even if the dubs win this year, that’s 2 titles outside the Durant years, impressive, but definitely not a dynasty. I’m not gonna pretend Curry winning on those Olympic squads in ‘17 & ‘18 is some truly noteworthy achievement.

[Bronbron23]

Seriously their team was awful for a long time. From '94 to 2012 they had 2 winning seasons and 9 sub 30 win seasons.

Kd is just as much responsible for turning the warriors into a dynasty as Steph was. Warriors weren't a dynasty before kd. They were a team with a lucky chip followed by an epic meltdown a year later. That's not a dynasty.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Kd is just as much responsible for turning the warriors into a dynasty as Steph was. Warriors weren't a dynasty before kd. They were a team with a lucky chip followed by an epic meltdown a year later. That's not a dynasty.

Exactly.

Lucked into a ring facing all injured teams and then choked miserably in the finals the next year

They've been collecting talent from the lottery since Durant left and once again had a cake walk to the finals this season. I've honestly never seen a bigger fraud team than the Warriors. It's actually pretty hilarious

[warriorfan]

Peak Kevin Durant helps. Even if the dubs win this year, that’s 2 titles outside the Durant years, impressive, but definitely not a dynasty. I’m not gonna pretend Curry winning on those Olympic squads in ‘17 & ‘18 is some truly noteworthy achievement.

Look at the whole body of work. Or disregard the Finals even like you bron guys like to do. He turned around that franchise in the most drastic way possible. You can’t find many examples of that in the history of the nba.


Seriously their team was awful for a long time. From '94 to 2012 they had 2 winning seasons and 9 sub 30 win seasons.

Yup. Me and my best friends had been huge fans for that entire era. It got really dark at times. We always stuck with it though. The 2015 title was pretty surreal for all of us.

[tontoz]

Look at the whole body of work. Or disregard the Finals even like you bron guys like to do. He turned around that franchise in the most drastic way possible. You can’t find many examples of that in the history of the nba.


Seriously they made the Finals twice, winning one, and set the all time record for wins in a season without KD. Without Steph there is no chance KD goes to the warriors.

[warriorfan]

Seriously they made the Finals twice, winning one, and set the all time record for wins in a season without KD. Without Steph there is no chance KD goes to the warriors.

They are either trolling or being intellectually dishonest. It is what it is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Seriously they made the Finals twice, winning one, and set the all time record for wins in a season without KD. Without Steph there is no chance KD goes to the warriors.

Thanks Dray, Klay, Iggy, and Kerr

They turned the franchise around.

They were awful with young curry despite having 24ppg Monta and 20ppg Lee

Durant at the same age was beating defending champ Mavs, Kobe and Pau, and dynasty Spurs.

Steph didn't change shit

[DMAVS41]

Also Durant owns Curry in career stats/resume

Better averages, more scoring titles, more all nba, more all star, ROY, better per, ws, FMVP's etc... literally EVERYTHING



"KD hasn't done enough"

:roll:

He hasn't. Given his circumstances...a player as good as you are claiming he is...would have done more...he sure as shit wouldn't have lost to an inferior Curry at home in game 6 of the WCF.

You are not just your skillset...it actually matters how you lead, what kind of teammate you are, how you respond to adversity, how you perform in the biggest moments of your career...etc.

I'd agree with you...or at least be open to it if this was a KG in Minny situation or even a Dirk in Dallas situation after Nash left. It isn't...KD has had quality help most of his career and the results for those teams simply do not warrant the praise he gets imo.

None of us would rank Kobe or Shaq, rightly, as high as we do if they only won 1 title together...like, they don't make the comeback against the Blazers and then they lose to the Kings. They'd actually be worse players if they didn't perform and come through in those situations...

These margins are not big when determining how great these guys are...we all agree they are great...it is about how great in these discussions.

[Bronbron23]

Exactly.

Lucked into a ring facing all injured teams and then choked miserably in the finals the next year

They've been collecting talent from the lottery since Durant left and once again had a cake walk to the finals this season. I've honestly never seen a bigger fraud team than the Warriors. It's actually pretty hilarious

Yeah it's alot of emotions and revisionist history when it comes to Steph and that warriors team before kd. They were nice but they weren't a dynasty. They had to go get kd to become a dynasty otherwise Bron was gonna continue to own Stephs ass.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He hasn't. Given his circumstances...a player as good as you are claiming he is...would have done more...he sure as shit wouldn't have lost to an inferior Curry at home in game 6 of the WCF.

You are not just your skillset...it actually matters how you lead, what kind of teammate you are, how you respond to adversity, how you perform in the biggest moments of your career...etc.

I'd agree with you...or at least be open to it if this was a KG in Minny situation or even a Dirk in Dallas situation after Nash left. It isn't...KD has had quality help most of his career and the results for those teams simply do not warrant the praise he gets imo.

Westbrick and bad role players is quality help
.. sure, If thats the narrative you wanna run with.

Dirk had far worse chokes in Dallas than KD did in OKC

Imagine thinking losing to a 73 win team is a mark on his legacy. Thats hilarious

He led bad players and bad coaches deep in the playoffs every season.

His career stats/resume blow Currys out of the water. It isn't even close. Curry has had the luckiest circumstances of any player in history and it still isn't close.

What year specifically should Durant have won? Who is winning with westbrick and horrible role players? The answer is nobody and you have literally no argument.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah it's alot of emotions and revisionist history when it comes to Steph and that warriors team before kd. They were nice but they weren't a dynasty. They had to go get kd to become a dynasty otherwise Bron was gonna continue to own Stephs ass.

Of course they weren't a "dynasty" at that point...they had only really started their journey...that isn't the claim.

The claim is that they were a dynasty level team...and that is abundantly clear at this point...to argue against that is just absurd. When KD went down in 19 they had an absurd win rate without him and easily made the finals without him.

Now, years late, with a completely different cast around the core...with Klay definitely not the player that he was...they are back to easily making the finals yet again.

They are clearly a Duncan Spurs level team without KD...

[DMAVS41]

Westbrick and bad role players is quality help
.. sure, If thats the narrative you wanna run with.

Dirk had far worse chokes in Dallas than KD did in OKC

Imagine thinking losing to a 73 win team is a mark on his legacy. Thats hilarious

He led bad players and bad coaches deep in the playoffs every season.

His career stats/resume blow Currys out of the water. It isn't even close. Curry has had the luckiest circumstances of any player in history and it still isn't close.

What year specifically should Durant have won? Who is winning with westbrick and horrible role players? The answer is nobody and you have literally no argument.

Imagine shooting 41%TS and still being up in the 4th qtr of game 6 of the WCF, a closeout home game, against a 73 win team and complaining about help.

:roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Of course they weren't a "dynasty" at that point...they had only really started their journey...that isn't the claim.

The claim is that they were a dynasty level team...and that is abundantly clear at this point...to argue against that is just absurd. When KD went down in 19 they had an absurd win rate without him and easily made the finals without him.

Now, years late, with a completely different cast around the core...with Klay definitely not the player that he was...they are back to easily making the finals yet again.

They are clearly a Duncan Spurs level team without KD...

They have the same winning rate without curry in the playoffs during his time.

Completely different team. You mean 5 all star caliber players and they've faced a total of 2 so far?

They are clearly a team without a legit title without Durant.

Would Lakers win in 2010 without Pau and Artest? Does any team in history still win the finals without their 2nd and 3rd option?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Imagine shooting 41%TS and still being up in the 4th qtr of game 6 of the WCF, a closeout home game, against a 73 win team and complaining about help.

:roll:

That's called fatigue from carrying huge load... something curry isn't capable of

Warriors were the number 1 defense. Durant was surrounded by horrible players. Roberson and Waiters were getting huge minutes. Those guys aren't in the league anymore

[DMAVS41]

They have the same winning rate without curry in the playoffs during his time.

Completely different team. You mean 5 all star caliber players and they've faced a total of 2 so far?

They are clearly a team without a legit title without Durant.

Would Lakers win in 2010 without Pau and Artest? Does any team in history still win the finals without their 2nd and 3rd option?

You can say that about almost any title...

KD fans are lost...they legit argue that Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka isn't enough to beat players they consider clearly inferior. What happened in 2011? Why didn't the "clearly superior" player get to a game 6?

[DMAVS41]

That's called fatigue from carrying huge load... something curry isn't capable of

Warriors were the number 1 defense. Durant was surrounded by horrible players. Roberson and Waiters were getting huge minutes. Those guys aren't in the league anymore

Yes, those horrible players that were still able to have a 4th qtr lead despite their star shitting the bed...great point.

[Nb1]

Yeah it's alot of emotions and revisionist history when it comes to Steph and that warriors team before kd. They were nice but they weren't a dynasty. They had to go get kd to become a dynasty otherwise Bron was gonna continue to own Stephs ass.

Before KD came Curry had 7 seasons in GS and only won one of them against Mozgov, Shumpert, Thompson and Dellavedova who owned him so bad that even a washed up Iggy got the FMVP. Had Lebron had 1 decent teammate he'd have beaten the Warriors that year. So, basically before KD Steph had 1 win which wasn't even thanks to him. He was just part of a great team.

Again, take this year. Take him out of the team and they still beat Denver who have 1 player, Memphis who are rookies and Dallas who have 1 great player. The Warriors 8th man is literally better than any of Luka's or Jokic's best teammates.

If Klay, Dray, Poole were injured and Curry won the ring this year, fair play to him, totally deserved to be called one of the greatest ever. But with that team? Against those rookies? GTFOH

And btw the Warriors are 9-3 in the postseason without him, so it's not like he makes a big difference anyway and when it matters its actually the opposite. Even Kerr takes him out of the game knowing he'll poop his pants as always. It's easy to be in that team and play against newbies, go do that on that sh** show Nets team KD had to deal with. With Curry they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Just like the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs when Curry didnt' have 10 of his all star teammates fully healthy.

[AlternativeAcc.]

You can say that about almost any title...

KD fans are lost...they legit argue that Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka isn't enough to beat players they consider clearly inferior. What happened in 2011? Why didn't the "clearly superior" player get passed game 5?

You're bringing up 22 year old KD?

What was Curry doing at age 22? Durant at 23 beat the defending champion mavs, Kobe and Pau, and dynasty Spurs. At age 23. What was curry doing? Talk about turning around a franchise. Sonics moved cities they were so bad. At a few years later were beating champions because of KD

Kobe shot 37% TS in game 7 vs. Boston. You only know narratives and don't know basketball

Baby westbrick and Ibaka? :facepalm good lord.

[DMAVS41]

Before KD came Curry had 7 seasons in GS and only won one of them against Mozgov, Shumpert, Thompson and Dellavedova who owned him so bad that even a washed up Iggy got the FMVP. Had Lebron had 1 decent teammate he'd have beaten the Warriors that year. So, basically before KD Steph had 1 win which wasn't even thanks to him. He was just part of a great team.

Again, take this year. Take him out of the team and they still beat Denver who have 1 player, Memphis who are rookies and Dallas who have 1 great player. The Warriors 8th man is literally better than any of Luka's or Jokic's best teammates.

If Klay, Dray, Poole were injured and Curry won the ring this year, fair play to him, totally deserved to be called one of the greatest ever. But with that team? Against those rookies? GTFOH

And btw the Warriors are 9-3 in the postseason without him, so it's not like he makes a big difference anyway and when it matters its actually the opposite. Even Kerr takes him out of the game knowing he'll poop his pants as always. It's easy to be in that team and play against newbies, go do that on that sh** show Nets team KD had to deal with. With Curry they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Just like the Warriors didn't even make the playoffs when Curry didnt' have 10 of his all star teammates fully healthy.

Just to be clear...you are arguing that Curry does not make a big difference anyway. Correct?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yes, those horrible players that were still able to have a 4th qtr lead despite their star shitting the bed...great point.

Like Lakers in 2010?

Oops, they won and weren't facing 73 win team so it makes it ok for Kobe.

You only know narratives, you don't know basketball

[AlternativeAcc.]

Just to be clear...you are arguing that Curry does not make a big difference anyway. Correct?

You brought up their record in playoffs. They have a great record without curry in playoffs so he destroyed another one of your weak narratives

Hurry go find regular season stats based on chemistry to save face

[DMAVS41]

You're bringing up 22 year old KD?

What was Curry doing at age 22? Durant at 23 beat the defending champion mavs, Kobe and Pau, and dynasty Spurs. At age 23. What was curry doing? Talk about turning around a franchise. Sonics moved cities they were so bad. At a few years later were beating champions because of KD

Kobe shot 37% TS in game 7 vs. Boston. You only know narratives and don't know basketball

Baby westbrick and Ibaka? :facepalm good lord.

Oh, I see...only certain years count.

So when can we evaluate KD...when was he "clearly superior"....you said 11 doesn't count...so I assume 12 doesn't count...you also claimed 16 doesn't count. So the only thing that matters is 17 and 18 according to you?

I'm confused...I thought you were talking about all-nba and scoring titles...wait, I'm really confused...didn't KD make first team all-nba in 2011? I actually don't remember, but I'm pretty sure he did...good to know that was meaningless.

Thanks for clearing all this up.

[DMAVS41]

Like Lakers in 2010?

Oops, they won and weren't facing 73 win team so it makes it ok for Kobe.

You only know narratives, you don't know basketball

Actually it doesn't...you must be confused....I'm all about how great Kobe's teammates were in 09 and 10...they are super under-rated here.

Sorry, try again...

[DMAVS41]

You brought up their record in playoffs. They have a great record without curry in playoffs so he destroyed another one of your weak narratives

Hurry go find regular season stats based on chemistry to save face

I don't think he was responding to me...but even if he was...that wouldn't destroy my point...which is simply that the Warriors were already a great team without KD...nobody with a brain would dispute that. If you don't want to credit Curry...cool, but nothing can change the fact that they were a great team without KD and have further proved that after he left.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Oh, I see...only certain years count.

So when can we evaluate KD...when was he "clearly superior"....you said 11 doesn't count...so I assume 12 doesn't count...you also claimed 16 doesn't count. So the only thing that matters is 17 and 18 according to you?

I'm confused...I thought you were talking about all-nba and scoring titles...wait, I'm really confused...didn't KD make first team all-nba in 2011? I actually don't remember, but I'm pretty sure he did...good to know that was meaningless.

Thanks for clearing all this up.

Who said it doesn't count?

They made the WCF'S when he was 22. They lost to the eventual champs. We are comparing steph and kd. What was curry doing at age 22? Was he averaging close to 30 and leading his team to WCF?

[warriorfan]

Imagine shooting 41%TS and still being up in the 4th qtr of game 6 of the WCF, a closeout home game, against a 73 win team and complaining about help.

:roll:

One of the worst chokes of all time. Almost LeBron 2011 levels. Amazing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I don't think he was responding to me...but even if he was...that wouldn't destroy my point...which is simply that the Warriors were already a great team without KD...nobody with a brain would dispute that. If you don't want to credit Curry...cool, but nothing can change the fact that they were a great team without KD and have further proved that after he left.

But not just because of curry.. that's also the point you don't wanna understand or admit. Dame in his place and they'd be a great team too. And a lot of other players. Warriors weren't/aren't just great because of curry...

And their success doesn't mean curry is better than durant all time because every stat or accomplishment favors durant.

Your argument is essentially because the warriors are great and Dursnt didn't luck into a title like curry, that makes curry better than durant. Thats retard logic.

[DMAVS41]

Who said it doesn't count?

They made the WCF'S when he was 22. They lost to the eventual champs. We are comparing steph and kd. What was curry doing at age 22? Was he averaging close to 30 and leading his team to WCF?

So it does count...so it is fair to criticize Durant for not making the finals in 11...correct?

[DMAVS41]

But not just because of curry.. that's also the point you don't wanna understand or admit. Dame in his place and they'd be a great team too. And a lot of other players. Warriors weren't/aren't just great because of curry...

And their success doesn't mean curry is better than durant all time because every stat or accomplishment favors durant.

Your argument is essentially because the warriors are great and Dursnt didn't luck into a title like curry, that makes curry better than durant. Thats retard logic.

When did I ever say it was all about Curry? I simply have said he's clearly their best player. At no point have I ever argued it's just because of Curry.

:confusedshrug:

Not at all. It isn't about the ring for me...the sustained success definitely matters to me, but I also happen to think Curry is a better basketball player. I think he makes a bigger impact on winning. Please stop telling me what I think...I've been on here saying this for years...

[AlternativeAcc.]

So it does count...so it is fair to criticize Durant for not making the finals in 11...correct?

In the same fashion it's fair to criticize luka for not making the finals this year sure.

But can we critize curry for being lottery and averaging 18ppg at age 22? Or does that not count. Durant losing to the champs is more important to talk about. Right? Because baby westbrick and ibaka (lmao) is a super stacked roster. ��

[AlternativeAcc.]

When did I ever say it was all about Curry? I simply have said he's clearly their best player. At no point have I ever argued it's just because of Curry.

:confusedshrug:

Not at all. It isn't about the ring for me...the sustained success definitely matters to me, but I also happen to think Curry is a better basketball player. I think he makes a bigger impact on winning. Please stop telling me what I think...I've been on here saying this for years...

It doesn't mean he's better than durant. Durant has had rhe better career and its not close.

[DMAVS41]

In the same fashion it's fair to criticize luka for not making the finals this year sure.

But can we critize curry for being lottery and averaging 18ppg at age 22? Or does that not count. Durant losing to the champs is more important to talk about. Right? Because baby westbrick and ibaka (lmao) is a super stacked roster. ��

I don't think it is the same, but sure.

[Nb1]

Fact is, when they were put in the same circumstances, with the same teammates, same opponents while playing together Durant was much better, so there is no real discussion here no matter how many rings Curry wins. Regarding them both, we have a perfect view on this because both played together, so there is no asterisk. Durant proved he is better than Curry and nothing can change that.

[DMAVS41]

It doesn't mean he's better than durant. Durant has had rhe better career and its not close.

Cool...I disagree...and I think you have a much bigger burden of proof arguing it is not close.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Cool...I disagree...and I think you have a much bigger burden of proof arguing it is not close.

Your 'proof' is that curry won without durant and has one great regular season. But thats already been debunked and what KD did at age 23 is much more impressive than anything Curry has done.... thats a fact same what he did last year on the Nets.

Durant owning him in every career stat and accolade while winning 2 fmvps over him when they played together isn't enough for you. Why? Because warriors lucked into a title in 2015 and KD lost to a 73 win team. Those are your arguments :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Fact is, when they were put in the same circumstances, with the same teammates, same opponents while playing together Durant was much better, so there is no real discussion here no matter how many rings Curry wins. Regarding them both, we have a perfect view on this because both played together, so there is no asterisk. Durant proved he is better than Curry and nothing can change that.

And we know Curry without the stacked Warriors is lottery while Durant carried several teams deep in the playoffs since the age of like 21.

They really aren't close.

[DMAVS41]

Your 'proof' is that curry won without durant and has one great regular season. But thats already been debunked and what KD did at age 23 is much more impressive than anything Curry has done.... thats a fact same what he did last year on the Nets.

Durant owning him in every career stat and accolade while winning 2 fmvps over him when they played together isn't enough for you. Why? Because warriors lucked into a title in 2015 and KD lost to a 73 win team. Those are your arguments :roll:

No, it isn't. That is simply a point against the "Durant is clearly superior" argument...which doesn't make sense given the actual results of their careers given their circumstances. You are drastically under-rating the help of KD.

I simply think what Steph gives you is more valuable. He literally destroys your defense without the ball from like 30 ft on a routine basis. He makes the game so much easier on his teammates in ways that even superstars like Durant don't...

But those are just my opinions...and again, your take against Curry could be made against all the great players. The problem with Durant is that he doesn't much to hang his hat on when he wasn't playing with Steph Curry...and please don't come back with Durant's stats...we already know he's great...the question is how great.

Again, you have to stop acting like KD was in a KG situation...he wasn't...he had legit chances to win...and he couldn't get it done...you can call him Westbrick all you want, but he's an all-time great player that most franchises would have killed to put around their star. He wasn't enough for KD...he needed more...that's a fact.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No, it isn't. That is simply a point against the "Durant is clearly superior" argument...which doesn't make sense given the actual results of their careers given their circumstances. You are drastically under-rating the help of KD.

I simply think what Steph gives you is more valuable. He literally destroys your defense without the ball from like 30 ft on a routine basis. He makes the game so much easier on his teammates in ways that even superstars like Durant don't...

But those are just my opinions...and again, your take against Curry could be made against all the great players. The problem with Durant is that he doesn't much to hang his hat on when he wasn't playing with Steph Curry...

I'm not underrating Durants teammates. They haven't done shit without him many of them are out of the league despite being younger than him.

You're using name value to prop up Durants help... OMG WESTBROOK. OMG IBAKA. OMG HARDEN Who played with him 2 seasons and choked in the finals... OMG such help!

No :facepalm

Do you remember how bad ibaka was in that 2011 WCF's? It was one of the worst defensive performances of all time. Dirk abused him almost every possession. It was embarrassing... and he was actually one of the better teammates he had. You wanna talk about Perkins, Roberson, waiters, singler..... go for it. Tell me how great his casts were and why they should've won more. I'd love to hear about it.

If duranr doesn't have much to hang his hat on what does Curry have? Durant owns him in every career stats and accolade including playoff stats. Has more all nba, more scoring titles etc and carried teams in the playoffs starting at a young age and with vastly different casts.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not underrating Durants teammates. They haven't done shit without him many of them are out of the league despite being younger than him.

You're using name value to prop up Durants help... OMG WESTBROOK. OMG IBAKA. OMG HARDEN Who played with him 2 seasons and choked in the finals... OMG such help!

No :facepalm

Do you remember how bad ibaka was in that 2011 WCF's? It was one of the worst defensive performances of all time. Dirk abused him almost every possession. It was embarrassing... and he was actually one of the better teammates he had. You wanna talk about Perkins, Roberson, waiters, singler..... go for it. Tell me how great his casts were and why they should've won more. I'd love to hear about it.

If duranr doesn't have much to hang his hat on what does Curry have? Durant owns him in every career stats and accolade including playoff stats. Has more all nba, more scoring titles etc and carried teams in the playoffs starting at a young age and with vastly different casts.

I'm judging them on what they did and how good they were...peak Westbrook was a great player...

The problem with people like you is that you can never be consistent because your thoughts change based on your agenda. If Curry left the Warriors and they made the Finals with Durant instead...you'd never stop talking about it...now, it doesn't matter.

Just like with Westbrook...if Curry left Klay and Klay went on to win a MVP...you'd never shut up about it.

Regardless...Westbrook from 2011 through 16...was definitely good enough to win with...and Durant couldn't get it done...and that should matter....at least when making the claim that during that time he was a "clearly superior" player to someone like Curry.

[Axe]

Warriors still had an elite record in the games Durant missed. Without Steph, not so much.
Warriors started missing the playoffs when kd and iggy left almost three years ago. They only made it again after the latter returned to the team last year.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm judging them on what they did and how good they were...peak Westbrook was a great player...

The problem with people like you is that you can never be consistent because your thoughts change based on your agenda. If Curry left the Warriors and they made the Finals with Durant instead...you'd never stop talking about it...now, it doesn't matter.

Just like with Westbrook...if Curry left Klay and Klay went on to win a MVP...you'd never shut up about it.

Regardless...Westbrook from 2011 through 16...was definitely good enough to win with...and Durant couldn't get it done...and that should matter....at least when making the claim that during that time he was a "clearly superior" player to someone like Curry.

But we know Curry doesn't win in durants place but Durant wins in Currys place

We know Durant has a superior resume than curry and better stats in the playoffs. And this isn't accounting for defense which prime durant is far superior to curry as well

So again tell me why curry being lucky makes him a better player than Durant? I'm missing the argument. Because he didn't win with westbrick? Well they won a lot in the playoffs together.... both had injuries during that time... they lost to thr eventual champs several times... I guess because they didn't get lucky like the 2015 warriors and face a team missing their 2nd and 3rd option in the finals that means KD isn't on Currys level. (Even though curry got owned by a bench scrub and didn't even win fmvp :oldlol:)


Your arguments aren't strong. Westbrick was the worst possible 2nd option and the role players he had were garbage and couldn't shoot. OKC is probably the worst franchise in the sport and haven't done anything since he left. They've completely fallen apart without him.

[warriorfan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H?format=jpg&name=medium

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H?format=jpg&name=medium

Without KD: Greatest choke ever

With KD: Near perfect playoff record that Curry choked away in game 4 of finals. KD 35/8/5 FMVP

Nice regular season chemistry post. Stick to huffy bikes and being broke :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Without KD: Greatest choke ever

With KD: Near perfect playoff record that Curry choked away in game 4 of finals. KD 35/8/5 FMVP

Nice regular season chemistry post. Stick to huffy bikes and being broke :oldlol:

Na.

KD just sucks. He’s an emotional woman like you. Not a leader of men. Not even a man himself.

Beta af

[HoopsNY]

https://i.postimg.cc/gjxVZdty/04-A98076-0-A90-4-E4-B-9094-750-EDBEFAE70.jpg

As someone who consistently argued KD over Steph, these are damning analytics.

[DMAVS41]

But we know Curry doesn't win in durants place but Durant wins in Currys place

We know Durant has a superior resume than curry and better stats in the playoffs. And this isn't accounting for defense which prime durant is far superior to curry as well

So again tell me why curry being lucky makes him a better player than Durant? I'm missing the argument. Because he didn't win with westbrick? Well they won a lot in the playoffs together.... both had injuries during that time... they lost to thr eventual champs several times... I guess because they didn't get lucky like the 2015 warriors and face a team missing their 2nd and 3rd option in the finals that means KD isn't on Currys level. (Even though curry got owned by a bench scrub and didn't even win fmvp :oldlol:)


Your arguments aren't strong. Westbrick was the worst possible 2nd option and the role players he had were garbage and couldn't shoot. OKC is probably the worst franchise in the sport and haven't done anything since he left. They've completely fallen apart without him.

We don't know that.

All I know is that KD, outside of the Warriors, is clearly an all-time great player that has not accomplished anything noteworthy for a player you want to be known as "clearly superior" to a player like Steph Curry.

Disagree with the rest of your post....where is the Duncan 03 / Hakeem 94 / Dirk 11...type run for Durant? Remember, you are arguing it isn't close...shouldn't he have done something in his career really special? There is still time of course, but hard to argue he deserves the nod without it.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Na.

KD just sucks. He’s an emotional woman like you. Not a leader of men. Not even a man himself.

Beta af

Curry isn't even a leader among woman. That fat whore ayesha runs the show and talks openly about wanting attention from dudes

Steph is the biggest cuck of all time.

IggyFMVP.JPG
DurantFMVP.JPG
DurantFMVP.JPG

[AlternativeAcc.]

We don't know that.

All I know is that KD, outside of the Warriors, is clearly an all-time great player that has not accomplished anything noteworthy for a player you want to be known as "clearly superior" to a player like Steph Curry.

Disagree with the rest of your post.

Curry hasn't done anything note worthy without durant except... luck into a title and have a far worse resume than durant. Durant owns him in every stat and accolade while carrying far worse rosters his entire career.

[warriorfan]

As someone who consistently argued KD over Steph, these are damning analytics.

Teams had to pick, which guy would you rather leave wide open? KD or Steph Curry. Neither is a great answer obviously but teams chose KD every time. Curry doesn’t get enough credit for how well he escapes those traps and double teams as well. An example of this is Dame Lillard who is a great player and some could argue is a poor man’s Steph but he really has a much more difficult time dealing with the traps and hard doubles from really far out compared to Steph.

[Axe]

https://i.postimg.cc/gjxVZdty/04-A98076-0-A90-4-E4-B-9094-750-EDBEFAE70.jpg
And what does your precious chef do whenever he gets double teamed in the playoffs several times? Let opposing g league players such as delly and freddy shine like all-stars? Have another bonafide all-star teammate to bail him out?

The choice is yours.

[DMAVS41]

Curry hasn't done anything note worthy without durant except... luck into a title and have a far worse resume than durant. Durant owns him in every stat and accolade while carrying far worse rosters his entire career.

Circumstances and luck definitely matter...I just disagree with your assessment here.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Circumstances and luck definitely matter...I just disagree with your assessment here.

I don't think you were aware of the career disparity in stats/accolades.

And factoring in defense and the fact KD won both FMVPs when they played together, it's a pretty open and shut case atm. Curry has a lot of catching up to be ranked higher than Durant all time.

We know curry (or really anyone) would've never won in Durants circumstances, but many do in Currys.

So its an open and shut case atm

[DMAVS41]

I don't think you were aware of the career disparity in stats/accolades.

And factoring in defense and the fact KD won both FMVPs when they played together, it's a pretty open and shut case atm. Curry has a lot of catching up to be ranked higher than Durant all time.

We know curry (or really anyone) would've never won in Durants circumstances, but many do in Currys.

So its an open and shut case atm

Most of what you are citing is meaningless to me...I think Curry is a far more impactful offensive force than Durant...and I also think Durant's defense gets over-rated.

Again, I just disagree with your assertion that Durant is winning titles in place of Curry...I don't know that...I don't even think that.

We'll see how it all shakes out...if the Warriors lose this series and Curry struggles, which is a real possibility, it will rightly hurt his chances of finishing in a range above KD...but if he plays great and they win another...I'd bet most people will have Curry higher...and I'd agree with that...

Again, I think Curry is a better and more impactful basketball player and I really think you are missing the true value of Curry just by looking at stats...that isn't what makes him so impactful.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Most of what you are citing is meaningless to me...I think Curry is a far more impactful offensive force than Durant...and I also think Durant's defense gets over-rated.

Again, I just disagree with your assertion that Durant is winning titles in place of Curry...I don't know that...I don't even think that.

We'll see how it all shakes out...if the Warriors lose this series and Curry struggles, which is a real possibility, it will rightly hurt his chances of finishing in a range above KD...but if he plays great and they win another...I'd bet most people will have Curry higher...and I'd agree with that...

Again, I think Curry is a better and more impactful basketball player and I really think you are missing the true value of Curry just by looking at stats...that isn't what makes him so impactful.

But he literally missed the playoffs last year... Durant carried his team to the playoffs this year and has never missed in his prime (his prime is longer than Currys which is part of why the gap between them is so large)

Durant is near 7 footer with elite 3pt shooting, midrange, driving.... that's why his impact is greater than Currys and he's been able to carry worse casts than curry. And he won fmvps over curry due to his multi-dimensional game which exploits numerous locations on the floor (not just the 3pt line) and has enormous gravity himself (as cited by shogun)

So yeah... you can have an opinion. But it doesn't change the facts (resume/stats) and track record of carrying bad teams when curry never has

[DMAVS41]

But he literally missed the playoffs last year... Durant carried his team to the playoffs this year and has never missed in his prime (his prime is longer than Currys which is part of why the gap between them is so large)

Durant is near 7 footer with elite 3pt shooting, midrange, driving.... that's why his impact is greater than Currys and he's been able to carry worse casts than curry. And he won fmvps over curry due to his multi-dimensional game which exploits numerous locations on the floor (not just the 3pt line) and has enormous gravity himself (as cited by shogun)

So yeah... you can have an opinion. But it doesn't change the facts (resume/stats) and track record of carrying bad teams when curry never has

You continue to list things that make Durant great...those things do not make him better than Curry.

So Curry missing the playoffs last year despite playing great and having great stats matters...but it doesn't matter, for example, when Durant gets his ass owned against the Grizzlies in 2013 without Russ...right? One matters...the other doesn't...because...why again? Not good evidence that Russ was bad...went from the best team in the league all year essentially to not even competitive in the 2nd round...without Russ. Tell me more about how bad he was.

Like I said before...if you are going to sum up Curry based on just luck and normal stats...he's going to be severely under-valued on that analysis.

LOL...at large gap between them. Nobody that isn't completely biased thinks that.

You also contradict yourself using stats / accolades so strongly when Westbrook has a great resume on that. Pretty sure Russ made 1st or 2nd all-nba from 11 through 18...probably put up 25/7/8 or something insane during that run as well....but, according to you, he's not good.

So, built into your analysis is that is clearly more to this stuff....and, of course, like I said earlier...you can't help but contradict yourself with your arguments because it shifts based on your agenda.

One minute it's all about luck and titles don't count...in another it matters what a guy did...then stats really matter for one player...but they don't another....

[AlternativeAcc.]

You continue to list things that make Durant great...those things do not make him better than Curry.

Like I said before...if you are going to sum up Curry based on just luck and normal stats...he's going to be severely under-valued on that analysis.

LOL...at large gap between them. Nobody that isn't completely biased thinks that.

You also contradict yourself using stats / accolades so strongly when Westbrook has a great resume on that. Pretty sure Russ made 1st or 2nd all-nba from 11 through 18...probably put up 25/7/8 or something insane during that run as well....but, according to you, he's not good.

So, built into your analysis is that is clearly more to this stuff....and, of course, like I said earlier...you can't help but contradict yourself with your arguments because it shifts based on your agenda.

One minute it's all about luck and titles don't count...in another it matters what a guy did...then stats really matter for one player...but they don't another....

You're bringing up stuff that can't be measured like impact but that doesn't work when the guy misses the playoffs in his prime with plenty of help, and Durant never has. Just your argument doesn't actually work. So durant has the resume and bigger impact

That leaves you with nothing...

[DMAVS41]

You're bringing up stuff that can't be measured like impact but that doesn't work when the guy misses the playoffs in his prime with plenty of help, and Durant never has. Just your argument doesn't actually work. So durant has the resume and bigger impact

That leaves you with nothing...

If you are going to say that you can't admit that Curry is better than his stats / accolades...you are even more biased than I thought.

However, that destroys your Westbrook argument. Tell me more about the guy with great stats and making first or 2nd team all-nba every year...wasn't good enough.

[AlternativeAcc.]

If you are going to say that you can't admit that Curry is better than his stats / accolades...you are even more biased than I thought.

However, that destroys your Westbrook argument. Tell me more about the guy with great stats and making first or 2nd team all-nba every year...wasn't good enough.

But westbrick averages like 23ppg on horrible efficiency and we know he's the worst decision maker ever.

It doesn't destroy anything... curry has better career stats than westbrick

You keep changing the subject when i shut down your arguments... I'm trying to cook with my gf so my full attention isn't here either. I'm just confused

[DMAVS41]

But westbrick averages like 23ppg on horrible efficiency and we know he's the worst decision maker ever.

It doesn't destroy anything... curry has better career stats than westbrick

You keep changing the subject when i shut down your arguments... I'm trying to cook with my gf so my full attention isn't here either. I'm just confused

So, just to be clear, you are saying that Westbrook from 11 through 16 had bad stats and accolades?

Because you went on for a bit about accolades mattering for Durant...and stats...and I'm wondering why they matter for him and not Russ.

[warriorfan]

AltAccount about to duck out like KD :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

So, just to be clear, you are saying that Westbrook from 11 through 16 had bad stats and accolades?

Because you went on for a bit about accolades mattering for Durant...and stats...and I'm wondering why they matter for him and not Russ.

But westbrook having accolades doesn't mean they should've won. He was a negative defender, horrible clutch player, worst decision maker ever, and inefficient. You're strawmanning hard here pal...

Accolades do matter when comparing players all time
.. and then we talked about impact and how durant carried bad teams and didn't miss the playoffs in his prime

[DMAVS41]

But westbrook having accolades doesn't mean they should've won. He was a negative defender, horrible clutch player, worst decision maker ever, and inefficient. You're strawmanning hard here pal...

Accolades do matter when comparing players all time
.. and then we talked about impact and how durant carried bad teams and didn't miss the playoffs in his prime

Oh, so when you argue Durant has Curry in "stats / accolades" that only matters in that comparison...and the other stuff doesn't really matter...I think you called it...stuff can't be measured (even though it can)

You can't have it both ways...you can't base your argument on "stats / accolades"...and then run from it when another player comes up that destroys the other part of your argument about Durant not having enough help.

This is the contradiction stuff I'm talking about...either the all-nba stuff and stats matter for Russ as well, or you can't base your argument on that here.

[Shooter]

He beat 3 1st-All NBA players on his way to the final, which is 2 more than Lebron's 8 year run and 24 playoff series! YIKES!!

:biggums:

LeBron beat three All NBA's in the 2016 Finals with zero All NBA teammates.

1st and only time that has ever happened. Get wrecked :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

Oh, so when you argue Durant has Curry in "stats / accolades" that only matters in that comparison...and the other stuff doesn't really matter...I think you called it...stuff can't be measured (even though it can)

You can't have it both ways...you can't base your argument on "stats / accolades"...and then run from it when another player comes up that destroys the other part of your argument about Durant not having enough help.

This is the contradiction stuff I'm talking about...either the all-nba stuff and stats matter for Russ as well, or you can't base your argument on that here.

My argument wasn't just based on stats though, we've talked about everything

We're comparing two players. Since when don't stats and accolades matter?

When talking about teams winning or not, it's a totally different convo. You can have 2 players who get accolades but the rest of the team suck.. or zero players who get much accolades but fit well together and have complimentary strengths.

You're comparing team success to a discussion about all time ranking. They're two totally different things. And you bringing up westbrook in the midst of talking about impact is strawmanning 101. You're running low on ammo my dude :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

While this is by no means perfect, but if you compare Durant / Curry in terms of how their teams performed on court vs off court...

On Court
Steph's Teams +8.5 points per 100
KD's Teams +5.8 points per 100

Off Court
Steph's Teams -3.1 points per 100
KD's Teams +.3 points per 100


Hard to listen to you complain about KD's help as a Mavs fan....

On Court
Dirk's Teams +5.6 points per 100

Off Court
Dirk's Teams -3.4 points per 100


Again, it's not perfect...but like I said earlier...you are simply choosing to paint a narrative that KD didn't have help...and that is just not true.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Durant had playoff level help but not championship level help.

Only 1 team wins each year. Losing to peak lebron, dynasty Spurs, and 73 win warriors while relying on westbrick and horrible role players aren't failures. Dirk choking against an 8 seed? That's a failure.

[DMAVS41]

My argument wasn't just based on stats though, we've talked about everything

We're comparing two players. Since when don't stats and accolades matter?

When talking about teams winning or not, it's a totally different convo. You can have 2 players who get accolades but the rest of the team suck.. or zero players who get much accolades but fit well together and have complimentary strengths.

You're comparing team success to a discussion about all time ranking. They're two totally different things. And you bringing up westbrook in the midst of talking about impact is strawmanning 101. You're running low on ammo my dude :oldlol:

I'm not sure what is hard to understand.

You based your Durant argument heavily on things that can be measured like stats and accolades...which is fine...I simply pointed out that you'll never get the value of guys like Dirk / Curry / Duncan / Klay...etc....heavily based on stats / accolades.

No, this is not a strawman at all. You made the claim that Durant didn't have enough help because of "Westbrick"...as your excuse why Durant wasn't able to ever win without Curry. I then simply pointed out that Westbrook has all-time great "stats / accolades"...and, well, you don't have an answer...

And of course you don't have an answer...you can't stay consistent.

[DMAVS41]

Durant had playoff level help but not championship level help.

Only 1 team wins each year. Losing to peak lebron, dynasty Spurs, and 73 win warriors while relying on westbrick and horrible role players aren't failures. Dirk choking against an 8 seed? That's a failure.

Lot of excuses for a player "clearly superior" to some of the best ever.

I also love how you list "73 win Warriors"...who was by far the best player on that Warriors team?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lot of excuses for a player "clearly superior" to some of the best ever.

Whose some of the best ever? The guy who misses the playoffs last year and averages 24ppg for his career while being a negative defender and horrible in the clucth..

You ok dude? You're getting a little erratic here.

We've covered all this... curry is lottery in durants place but durant wins in Currys. You know it even if you don't wanna admit it. We all know it.


Dirk is another guy whose career is full of failures and one lucky ring. Took lebron having his worst series ever to win.

24ppg for dirk on 40%shooting... Durant lost playing much bigger than this. Luck and circumstances dog.

[DMAVS41]

Whose some of the best ever? The guy who misses the playoffs last year and averages 24ppg for his career while being a negative defender and horrible in the clucth..

You ok dude? You're getting a little erratic here.

We've covered all this... curry is lottery in durants place but durant wins in Currys. You know it even if you don't wanna admit it. We all know it.

He's definitely not a net negative defender, he's not horrible in the clutch, and averaging 24 ppg while destroying defenses without the ball is more valuable than KD's one on one style that doesn't help his teammates as much...while also gets pushed off his spots by tough defenders (see Celtics and Grizzlies)...and struggles to lead teams (see game 6 2016 WCF)...

We've been over this. You can't stay consistent.

[AlternativeAcc.]

He's definitely not a net negative defender, he's not horrible in the clutch, and averaging 24 ppg while destroying defenses without the ball is more valuable than KD's one on one style that doesn't help his teammates as much...while also gets pushed off his spots by tough defenders (see Celtics and Grizzlies)...and struggles to lead teams (see game 6 2016 WCF)...

We've been over this. You can't stay consistent.

Curry misses the playoffs in his prime tho... Durant doesn't.. with worse casts and worse circumstances

Your impact argument goes nowhere. Warriors win because of talent. Period.

They lost in game 6 because Klay had a career game... he led the warriors, not curry. Good try though. Westbrook certainly didnt hit 7 3's or how many ever klay hit. I know klay has the most games with 8 3's made in playoff games... and was always an elite defender. I'll take that any day over westbrick. And so will everyone else

Durant wins in resume, impact, and dominated and won the fmvps when they both played together

Open and shut case. I've been nothing but consistent while you change the subject every other post. Stay aware

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm not sure what is hard to understand.

You based your Durant argument heavily on things that can be measured like stats and accolades...which is fine...I simply pointed out that you'll never get the value of guys like Dirk / Curry / Duncan / Klay...etc....heavily based on stats / accolades.

No, this is not a strawman at all. You made the claim that Durant didn't have enough help because of "Westbrick"...as your excuse why Durant wasn't able to ever win without Curry. I then simply pointed out that Westbrook has all-time great "stats / accolades"...and, well, you don't have an answer...

And of course you don't have an answer...you can't stay consistent.

Lol I missed this.

23ppg on 52%TS for westbricks career isn't all time great... and it doesn't account for his horrible defense, decision making, and lack of clutch. Yikes....

Why has nobody won with westbrick since durant left?

[tontoz]

Lol I missed this.

23ppg on 52%TS for westbricks career isn't all time great... and it doesn't account for his horrible defense, decision making, and lack of clutch. Yikes....

Why has nobody won with westbrick since durant left?


Westbrook made the playoffs for 11 straight years, until this year when he didn't even make the play in.

:lol

[DMAVS41]

Curry misses the playoffs in his prime tho... Durant doesn't.. with worse casts and worse circumstances

Your impact argument goes nowhere. Warriors win because of talent. Period.

They lost in game 6 because Klay had a career game... he led the warriors, not curry. Good try though. Westbrook certainly didnt hit 7 3's or how many ever klay hit. I know klay has the most games with 8 3's made in playoff games... and was always an elite defender. I'll take that any day over westbrick. And so will everyone else

Durant wins in resume, impact, and dominated and won the fmvps when they both played together

Open and shut case. I've been nothing but consistent while you change the subject every other post. Stay aware

I just showed you that Curry's teams are worse with him off court than Durant's teams were...

Like I said...you are over-rating Curry's help and diminishing Durant's to fit your narrative. Hell, you listed the "73 win Warriors" as an excuse as to why Durant couldn't win while conveniently ignoring that by far the driving force behind the strength of that team is the very player you are saying is not that good. That is the definition of not being consistent.

Same thing with Russ and stats / accolades...Russ isn't good enough for KD to win with, but the very arguments you make in favor of KD vs. Steph...also work to paint Russ as a historically good 2nd option. Again, he was like 25/7/8 and either first or 2nd team all-nba for like 8 straight years.

In addition, it is kind of hard to blame the "help" when you shoot 41%TS in the biggest game of your career, at home, and your team still up 5 with like 4 minutes to go.

End of the day...your arguments would make more sense if Durant was just in brutal circumstances most of his career...like Lebron his first few years...or KG most of his career in Minny...but that just isn't the case.

Lastly, you'd naturally expect a player as good as you are claiming that KD is...to do something truly special. Where is his big upset en route to a title against the odds? Like I said earlier...where is his 94 Hakeem run or Duncan 03 run or Dirk 11 run...or Lebron 07 run even...

Nothing close to open and shut case...maybe Durant jumps back in front with a great run next year...he's certainly capable of it...but you damn well know you'd be killing Curry for getting swept in round 1 if he had a similar player to Kyrie by his side.

Again, it's that lack of consistency in your arguments.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Westbrook made the playoffs for 11 straight years, until this year when he didn't even make the play in.

:lol
Has a total of 1 series win without Durant against... the garbage Thunder :lol. Took him and Harden 7 games to take out Chris Paul and literal scrubs.

8-21 In the playoffs without durant. Ouch

[DMAVS41]

Lol I missed this.

23ppg on 52%TS for westbricks career isn't all time great... and it doesn't account for his horrible defense, decision making, and lack of clutch. Yikes....

Why has nobody won with westbrick since durant left?

From 11-16...Russ put up 24/6/8 54% TS...111 ortg...104 drtg...while making first or 2nd all-nba each year iirc.

Your take is that those aren't good stats and accolades?

Even more damning for KD and the lack of help argument.

From 11-16...

KD on court...OKC was +8.4 points per 100
KD off court...OKC was +2.9 points per 100

Again, most franchises would kill to have the kind of supporting cast. A first ballot hall of famer 2nd guy and a team capable of beating the other teams with your star on the bench....but oh no...that's just not close to good enough for KD...LOL

[AlternativeAcc.]

I just showed you that Curry's teams are worse with him off court than Durant's teams were...

Like I said...you are over-rating Curry's help and diminishing Durant's to fit your narrative. Hell, you listed the "73 win Warriors" as an excuse as to why Durant couldn't win while conveniently ignoring that by far the driving force behind the strength of that team is the very player you are saying is not that good. That is the definition of not being consistent.

Same thing with Russ and stats / accolades...Russ isn't good enough for KD to win with, but the very arguments you make in favor of KD vs. Steph...also work to paint Russ as a historically good 2nd option. Again, he was like 25/7/8 and either first or 2nd team all-nba for like 8 straight years.

In addition, it is kind of hard to blame the "help" when you shoot 41%TS in the biggest game of your career, at home, and your team still up 5 with like 4 minutes to go.

End of the day...your arguments would make more sense if Durant was just in brutal circumstances most of his career...like Lebron his first few years...or KG most of his career in Minny...but that just isn't the case.

Lastly, you'd naturally expect a player as good as you are claiming that KD is...to do something truly special. Where is his big upset en route to a title against the odds? Like I said earlier...where is his 94 Hakeem run or Duncan 03 run or Dirk 11 run...or Lebron 07 run even...

Nothing close to open and shut case...maybe Durant jumps back in front with a great run next year...he's certainly capable of it...but you damn well know you'd be killing Curry for getting swept in round 1 if he had a similar player to Kyrie by his side.

Again, it's that lack of consistency in your arguments.

You posted some bullshit career stat without any context... that's trash

And you keep talking like I'm saying Durant is the GOAT or something. I'm simply saying he's better than steph all time and has more impact

Steph wouldn't be in the playoffs if he went through what durant did this year. Durant literally carried them despite being injured and irving playing like 20 games. Educate yourself before blabbing off. You bringing up the Nets is exactly my point... curry doesn't make the playoffs in that situation... he missed last year in a much bigger situation :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Has a total of 1 series win without Durant against... the garbage Thunder :lol. Took him and Harden 7 games to take out Chris Paul and literal scrubs.

8-21 In the playoffs without durant. Ouch


Playoffs 11 straight years until teaming up with LeBron. Ouch

He even dragged the wizards to the playoffs last year.

[AlternativeAcc.]

From 11-16...Russ put up 24/6/8 54% TS...111 ortg...104 drtg...while making first or 2nd all-nba each year iirc.

Your take is that those aren't good stats and accolades?

24ppg on 54% TS isn't anything to write home about, especially for a team heavily reliant on their two players due to lack of talent and depth on the rest of the roster. You're helping my case.

24ppg on bad efficiency, no defense, horrible decision making, and no clutch abilities.... is good enough to win championships? I can tell you never watched them play.

[tontoz]

From 11-16...Russ put up 24/6/8 54% TS...111 ortg...104 drtg...while making first or 2nd all-nba each year iirc.

Your take is that those aren't good stats and accolades?

Even more damning for KD and the lack of help argument.

From 11-16...

KD on court...OKC was +8.4 points per 100
KD off court...OKC was +2.9 points per 100

Again, most franchises would kill to have the kind of supporting cast. A first ballot hall of famer 2nd guy and a team capable of beating the other teams with your star on the bench....but oh no...that's just not close to good enough for KD...LOL


Stats and accolades only matter to trolls when they are convenient.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Playoffs 11 straight years until teaming up with LeBron. Ouch

He even dragged the wizards to the playoffs last year.

1 playoff series win without durant despite playing with peak PG and Harden... ouch. Westbrick sucks

[DMAVS41]

You posted some bullshit career stat without any context... that's trash

And you keep talking like I'm saying Durant is the GOAT or something. I'm simply saying he's better than steph all time and has more impact

Steph wouldn't be in the playoffs if he went through what durant did this year. Durant literally carried them despite being injured and irving playing like 20 games. Educate yourself before blabbing off. You bringing up the Nets is exactly my point... curry doesn't make the playoffs in that situation... he missed last year in a much bigger situation :oldlol:

You know that you don't actually know a lot of these things...right?

Check the above...I broke down 11-16 for you...it's actually worse for KD mate...hall of fame 2nd option with great stats / accolades and a supporting cast that for 6 years outscored opponents by 2.9 points per 100 possessions without KD on the court.

[red1]

if curry wins a finals MVP this year he is officially better than durant


it is what it is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

You know that you don't actually know a lot of these things...right?

Check the above...I broke down 11-16 for you...it's actually worse for KD mate...hall of fame 2nd option with great stats / accolades and a supporting cast that for 6 years outscored opponents by 2.9 points per 100 possessions without KD on the court.

I know because I know the game. We know Durant carried his team to the playoffs and Curry didnt despite being in a much better situation

So yeah, you can posts those stats like they defeat any of my arguments but they don't. 1 team wins the championship each year. Having Westbrook as the 2nd option on a top heavy team is a huge handicap and everyone that knows ball, knows that. Period.

[AlternativeAcc.]

if curry wins a finals MVP this year he is officially better than durant


it is what it is.

What if he stat pads in blow outs and the media GIFTS him the award.. I can see this happening

I can see Klay or Poole, or even Dray get screwed

[tontoz]

1 playoff series win without durant despite playing with peak PG and Harden... ouch. Westbrick sucks


Westbrook has more All NBA teams than all of Steph's teammates combined, by far

[red1]

it is what it is.


if curry gets ANOTHER ring with a finals MVP then he is easily top-12 over kd.

[tontoz]

What if he stat pads in blow outs and the media GIFTS him the award.. I can see this happening

I can see Klay or Poole, or even Dray get screwed



Why don't you post some examples of Steph padding his stats in blowouts?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Westbrook has more All NBA teams than all of Steph's teammates, by far
He's also known as one of the biggest empty stat players of all time and a team cancer.

Basketball isn't won with all nbas, it's won with talent and complementary talent. Warriors have boat loads of it... westbrick was a snake oil salesmen who got stats and awards but had no complementary talents...

[AlternativeAcc.]

Why don't you post some examples of Steph padding his stats in blowouts?

That would require too much effort, if it's not something I can easily google I won't look into it

I watch and report... I don't live on the stat pages like you guys. I use stats to compliment what I know... unfortunately finding stats on stat padding takes too much effort for little gain. Everyone knows steph stat pads and doesn't do anything when games matter.

[tontoz]

He's also known as one of the biggest empty stat players of all time and a team cancer.

Basketball isn't won with all nbas, it's won with talent and complementary talent. Warriors have boat loads of it... westbrick was a snake oil salesmen who got stats and awards but had no complementary talents...


Yet he made the playoffs 11 straight years with many different casts, but not this year. Strange

[tontoz]

That would require too much effort, if it's not something I can easily google I won't look into it

I watch and report... I don't live on the stat pages like you guys. I use stats to compliment what I know... unfortunately finding stats on stat padding takes too much effort for little gain. Everyone knows steph stat pads and doesn't do anything when games matter.


You've been talking about Steph stat padding in blowouts over and over and over. Surely you have at least one example.



Or maybe you are just making it up to pretend you are making sense.

[AlternativeAcc.]

You've been talking about Steph stat padding in blowouts over and over and over. Surely you have at least one example.



Or maybe you are just making it up to pretend you are making sense.

This is what popped up

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1763423&start=80

Looks like I'm not the only one and JR Smith even speaks publicly about it :oldlol:

[tontoz]

This is what popped up

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1763423&start=80

Looks like I'm not the only one and JR Smith even speaks publicly about it :oldlol:


A regular season game from 2018? That's all you got?

[Axe]

Westbrook made the playoffs for 11 straight years, until this year when he didn't even make the play in.

:lol
You're sure, uncle? :roll:

[Bronbron23]

Of course they weren't a "dynasty" at that point...they had only really started their journey...that isn't the claim.

The claim is that they were a dynasty level team...and that is abundantly clear at this point...to argue against that is just absurd. When KD went down in 19 they had an absurd win rate without him and easily made the finals without him.

Now, years late, with a completely different cast around the core...with Klay definitely not the player that he was...they are back to easily making the finals yet again.

They are clearly a Duncan Spurs level team without KD...
Bruh a dynasty is winning. Making it to the finals with a great win rate and losing isn't a dynasty. And again they only became a dynasty because kd joined. Warriors don't win again without that move. That's why the front office and dray went and got kd. They knew this to be true. Not sure why Steph Stans didn't. Love is blind I guess.

[tontoz]

This is what popped up

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1763423&start=80

Looks like I'm not the only one and JR Smith even speaks publicly about it :oldlol:

FYI the score was 99-93 with 6 minutes left. Not exactly a blowout.

I was wondering why both KD and Steph were still in the game.

[RRR3]

Imagine trying to make a thread about Curry and KD about grandpa LeBron. Tontoz has PTSD from all the times LeBron bullied the Wizards the poor guy.

[tontoz]

Imagine trying to make a thread about Curry and KD about grandpa LeBron. Tontoz has PTSD from all the times LeBron bullied the Wizards the poor guy.


Problem with that theory is that I was following the Hawks back then baby boy. I lived in Atlanta for 12 years and continued to follow them after leaving until they broke up the team.

[Johnny32]

legoat fans should want curry in the top 10 all time, kd also.

[RRR3]

Problem with that theory is that I was following the Hawks back then baby boy. I lived in Atlanta for 12 years and continued to follow them after leaving until they broke up the team.
LeBron has never bullied the Hawks so true. Absolutely boiling.

[tontoz]

LeBron has never bullied the Hawks so true. Absolutely boiling.


SMH

The JJ/Horford/ Josh Smith Hawks had their own issues. They faced LeBron in the playoffs maybe once. They could lose a series to pretty much anyone, when they actually made the playoffs.

[Nb1]

Unless KD and Steph join forces again and Steph wins 3 finals MVP's over KD nothing changes.

This is not like a Bron-MJ debate where you can argue who they played against matters, with whom they played, this or that era was more difficult, ...

We had KD and Steph playing together at their prime, same opponents, same teammates, same circumstances and with all that taken into account everyone in the world had KD as a much better player then Steph, that wasn't even debatable to anyone understanding a tiny bit of basketball and even random people. So, there is 0 debate now too. If Steph now wins 10 FMVP's nothing changes comparing him to KD. You can argue he passes Bron, MJ, i don't care who but KD showed he was the better player. Curry now just had more help and were in better circumstances than KD, because let's be honest facing a depleted Den, Mem and Dallas is a joke with that team.

The Warriors 8th worst player is even better than the 2nd one of those teams.

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220601-115017.jpg

[dankok8]

How the hell did KD prove that he was the better player? Because he won FMVP both years? Curry could have easily won in 2018 and nobody would have batted an eye. If you compare their numbers they were 1a/1b in terms of importance on the 2017 and 2018 Warriors.

[AlternativeAcc.]

A regular season game from 2018? That's all you got?

I googled steph statpadding and that's what popped up. There were tons of links relating to stephs stat padding, so it debunks your theory that I'm making shit up. It's well known he's a stat padder

His 0% clutch rate is a good indicator that he's worthless when games are tight, especially in the clutch.

[AlternativeAcc.]

How the hell did KD prove that he was the better player? Because he won FMVP both years? Curry could have easily won in 2018 and nobody would have batted an eye. If you compare their numbers they were 1a/1b in terms of importance on the 2017 and 2018 Warriors.

Better offensive and defensive player. Durant defense on GS was elite. Curry shot 56% TS in the 2018 finals l, didn't play defense, and stat padded late in games. Stop trying to rewrite history.

[tontoz]

I googled steph statpadding and that's what popped up. There were tons of links relating to stephs stat padding, so it debunks your theory that I'm making shit up. It's well known he's a stat padder

His 0% clutch rate is a good indicator that he's worthless when games are tight, especially in the clutch.


Sure it is so well known that you couldnt remember him actually doing it.

The fact is that Steph is typically not playing in the 4th in blowouts. The only reason he was playing in this game is because they had only a 6 pt lead with 6 minutes left.

[Gohan]

Better offensive and defensive player. Durant defense on GS was elite. Curry shot 56% TS in the 2018 finals l, didn't play defense, and stat padded late in games. Stop trying to rewrite history.

This shit is getting sad. All you do is hate and show no love. That shit aint healthy

[AlternativeAcc.]

Sure it is so well known that you couldnt remember him actually doing it.

The fact is that Steph is typically not playing in the 4th in blowouts. The only reason he was playing in this game is because they had only a 6 pt lead with 6 minutes left.

I refer mainly to finals games that I've seen, so when I reference it it's relating to finals series from years ago.

Its just kind of a well known thing.

I dont care about the specific game of that link, I didn't even read the thread. I posted it to point out that many people have noticed it and there's many threads of people talking about. If there was a stat that I could easily reference showcasing it, I would, but theres not

[tontoz]

I refer mainly to finals games that I've seen, so when I reference it it's relating to finals series from years ago.

Its just kind of a well known thing.

I dont care about the specific game of that link, I didn't even read the thread. I posted it to point out that many people have noticed it and there's many threads of people talking about. If there was a stat that I could easily reference showcasing it, I would, but theres not


If there were many people talking about it then you wouldn't have to go back to 2018 to find a topic about it.

:facepalm

[AlternativeAcc.]

If there were many people talking about it then you wouldn't have to go back to 2018 to find a topic about it.

:facepalm

I didn't... it's the first link that popped up when I Googled steph stat padding.

Keep up.

Curry hasn't been relevant in the playoffs for years. Makes sense that 2018 threads will pop up.

[tontoz]

I didn't... it's the first link that popped up when I Googled steph stat padding.

Keep up.

Curry hasn't been relevant in the playoffs for years. Makes sense that 2018 threads will pop up.


He was in the Finals in 2019 and the game you posted wasn't from the playoffs.

:facepalm

[AlternativeAcc.]

He was in the Finals in 2019 and the game you posted wasn't from the playoffs.

:facepalm

You have bad reading comprehension bro.

[tontoz]

You have bad reading comprehension bro.


I read just fine. You said a guy who is currently playing in the Finals (winning the first Magic Johnson trophy) and was also in the finals in 2019 hasn't been relevant in the playoffs in years.

:roll:

Maybe you had him confused with Lebron.

[DMAVS41]

Unless KD and Steph join forces again and Steph wins 3 finals MVP's over KD nothing changes.

This is not like a Bron-MJ debate where you can argue who they played against matters, with whom they played, this or that era was more difficult, ...

We had KD and Steph playing together at their prime, same opponents, same teammates, same circumstances and with all that taken into account everyone in the world had KD as a much better player then Steph, that wasn't even debatable to anyone understanding a tiny bit of basketball and even random people. So, there is 0 debate now too. If Steph now wins 10 FMVP's nothing changes comparing him to KD. You can argue he passes Bron, MJ, i don't care who but KD showed he was the better player. Curry now just had more help and were in better circumstances than KD, because let's be honest facing a depleted Den, Mem and Dallas is a joke with that team.

The Warriors 8th worst player is even better than the 2nd one of those teams.

Cool...and that "better player"...just keeps losing year after year after year...almost always with consistent all-nba teammate help...hell, loses to Curry at his peak...and that "inferior player" keeps winning more and playing better against similar competition...even with teammates that aren't nearly as good as they once were.

It is almost like the other teams paid more attention to Steph than KD when they were on the same team...

Oh, and you guys tell us more about how Draymond is the real driving force of the Warriors...tell us how his 4/7/6 on 28% TS while getting cooked on defense is so important. Tell us more about how Klay's 49% TS is what makes the Warriors great.

You all just need to take the L...at least for now...Curry is a better and more impactful player than KD. The Warriors were elite without KD and were elite with him...what KD averaged while facing less defensive attention than Curry on an all-time loaded team against non noteworthy competition is almost meaningless.

It is KD that has to prove he should be compared to Steph...not the other way around...you all have had it backwards for a long time now.

[Gohan]

Cool...and that "better player"...just keeps losing year after year after year...almost always with consistent all-nba teammate help...hell, loses to Curry at his peak...and that "inferior player" keeps winning more and playing better against similar competition...even with teammates that aren't nearly as good as they once were.

It is almost like the other teams paid more attention to Steph than KD when they were on the same team...

Oh, and you guys tell us more about how Draymond is the real driving force of the Warriors...tell us how his 4/7/6 on 28% TS while getting cooked on defense is so important. Tell us more about how Klay's 49% TS is what makes the Warriors great.

You all just need to take the L...at least for now...Curry is a better and more impactful player than KD. The Warriors were elite without KD and were elite with him...what KD averaged while facing less defensive attention than Curry on an all-time loaded team against non noteworthy competition is almost meaningless.

It is KD that has to prove he should be compared to Steph...not the other way around...you all have had it backwards for a long time now.

:cheers:
This, not only would i say steph is better than kd. I would say it isnt even close

[DMAVS41]

You posted some bullshit career stat without any context... that's trash

And you keep talking like I'm saying Durant is the GOAT or something. I'm simply saying he's better than steph all time and has more impact

Steph wouldn't be in the playoffs if he went through what durant did this year. Durant literally carried them despite being injured and irving playing like 20 games. Educate yourself before blabbing off. You bringing up the Nets is exactly my point... curry doesn't make the playoffs in that situation... he missed last year in a much bigger situation :oldlol:

Again, tell us more about why the "clearly superior" player got swept by this same team while playing significantly worse than Steph currently is.

Does it not give you any pause when watching these games? Curry is playing all-time great against the very defense that Durant struggled against...and to make matters worse for you...Curry is doing it while getting very little from Klay / Dray on either end. Dray, for example, has clearly been a net negative so far in this series.

I'm just curious...how are the Warriors tied 2-2 in this series if Curry isn't that good and his help has underperformed in a big way so far overall?

Like, do you ever just think to yourself...damn, maybe the guy that is consistently the best player on teams winning a ton of games and making the finals a lot while averaging 27/5/6 on insane efficiency and making the game easy for his teammates...is one of the best payers ever? Do you really think those stats, impact, and results come from anything other than one of the best ever?????

[John8204]

Durant might be the best player in the NBA but he's a huge failure and won't make the top 20 thanks to his poor locker room and political game.

[Shooter]

I read just fine. You said a guy who is currently playing in the Finals (winning the first Magic Johnson trophy) and was also in the finals in 2019 hasn't been relevant in the playoffs in years.

:roll:

Maybe you had him confused with Lebron.

That would only make YOU retarded tho seeing as how you're referencing 2019 and LeBron RAPED Curry in 2021 eliminated him from the playoffs AND LeBron chipped up in 2020 with his 4th FMVP.

Are you braindead?

[hold this L]

Durant might be the best player in the NBA but he's a huge failure and won't make the top 20 thanks to his poor locker room and political game.

Anybody who thinks KD is the best player in basketball is a flat out idiot. He's at best the 3rd best, but I can't even put him there after that 1st round performance, he's 4th behind the Joker.