These Celtics are built like an MJ team - 2-star defensive team and role-playing bigs

[3ba11]

That seems easy for a GM compared to building around "heliocentric" ball-dominators (weak brand of ball) that require super-team help.

Conclusion: Jordan's blueprint for a goat team appears to work in today's game, so we can assume he would go 6/6 with Brown or Porzingas-level sidekick or worse

[8Ball]

https://c.tenor.com/Hbw2OzRFRScAAAAC/shaq-shaquill-oneal.gif


Nobody on the Celtics plays Jordan chuck ball.

[kawhileonard2]

No one in the league was ever as consistent as MJ especially that won multiple league and finals mvp's as well as never lost a series with the better record/hca.

[3ba11]

https://c.tenor.com/Hbw2OzRFRScAAAAC/shaq-shaquill-oneal.gif


Nobody on the Celtics plays Jordan chuck ball.


Jordan's off-ball and elite jumpshooting skill allowed great ball movement and teammate fits, so the Bulls had goat offenses - this includes four #1 offenses with goat margins above league average ortg

Otoh, Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades and tons of juggernaut offensive help.. His big man ball-dominance fields low ball movement and low assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals

[1987_Lakers]

https://c.tenor.com/Hbw2OzRFRScAAAAC/shaq-shaquill-oneal.gif


Nobody on the Celtics plays Jordan chuck ball.

:oldlol:

[Wally450]

Meltdown

[Phoenix]

So what happened to you sucking off Curry the past two weeks for his 'GOAT' brand of ball? Do we need to bring up all your quotes the past few weeks?

[Phoenix]

Jordan's off-ball and elite jumpshooting skill allowed great ball movement and teammate fits, so the Bulls had goat offenses - this includes four #1 offenses with goat margins above league average ortg

Otoh, Lebron never had a #1 offense in 2 decades and tons of juggernaut offensive help.. His big man ball-dominance fields low ball movement and low assist teams that get massively out-assisted in the Finals

Lebron isn't in this series.

Now tell us about the Celtics beating the "GOAT" brand of ball tonight and let's see if you can try to make your point without mentioning Michael Jordan, Lebron James, or Scottie Pippen. Would be a nice change of pace.

[3ba11]

So what happened to you sucking off Curry the past two weeks for his 'GOAT' brand of ball? De we need to bring up all your quotes the past few weeks?


Kerr hasn't incorporated Poole enough - the Warriors don't have an offensive advantage if they aren't using one of their 4 big scoring threats.. They can't wear out Curry against this team..

[1987_Lakers]

So what happened to you sucking off Curry the past two weeks for his 'GOAT' brand of ball? De we need to bring up all your quotes the past few weeks?

This is what he does, he quickly flip flops on players if they don't win.

[1987_Lakers]

Kerr hasn't incorporated Poole enough - the Warriors don't have an offensive advantage if they aren't using one of their 4 big scoring threats

Spoken like someone who didn't watch the game, Poole played out of control tonight and was a defensive liability.

[3ba11]

Spoken like someone who didn't watch the game, Poole played out of control tonight and was a defensive liability.


Again, Kerr hasn't incorporated him enough previously - his minutes have been declining for a while now - so it's probably too late because he had already declined as a threat

They can't wear out Curry against this team.. the other big scorers need to be going off - the key is Poole but if he's going to be a role player than forget it

[Phoenix]

Spoken like someone who didn't watch the game, Poole played out of control tonight and was a defensive liability.

He hasn't watched a game in a decade.

[1987_Lakers]

Again, Kerr hasn't incorporated him enough previously - his minutes have been declining for a while now - so it's probably too late because he had already declined as a threat

They can't wear out Curry against this team.. the other big scorers need to be going off - the key is Poole but if he's going to be a role player than forget it

In another thread you said Wiggins needed to play well in order to win, he played well tonight and they still lost.

Now it's all about Poole. You're a moron

[kawhileonard2]

These Celtics are built more like the 2004 Pistons where everyone knows there role but has a star in Tatum but anyone can get theres as well.

[AirBonner]

These Celtics are built more like the 2004 Pistons where everyone knows there role but has a star in Tatum but anyone can get theres as well.

Bingo. Every game a different player will have the team high in points

[3ba11]

In another thread you said Wiggins needed to play well in order to win, he played well tonight and they still lost.

Now it's all about Poole. You're a moron


20/5??... Pippen-level crap???

Only MJ could win with that..

Even prime Wade/Bosh couldn't win with Pippen in the 11' Finals

[1987_Lakers]

20/5??... Pippen-level crap???


Shot over 50% tonight, in your thread you said if Wiggins shoots 42% they lose.

Really doesn't matter because that thread made no sense whatsoever, it just proves you look at basketball like a 10 year old does.

[3ba11]

Shot over 50% tonight, in your thread you said if Wiggins shoots 42% they lose.

Really doesn't matter because that thread made no sense whatsoever, it just proves you look at basketball like a 10 year old does.


Actually, it looks like that thread was spot-on

20/5 (Pippen crap) isn't going to cut it

And if one of the 4-headed monster is now a role player (Poole), then I don't like the Warriors chances

[ShawkFactory]

Horford is so underrated. He’s a role player because he chooses to be but he’s had several mammoth games and if he truly looked to always find his spot offensively hed score 20 a game easily.

He’s like a baby Tim Duncan in that respect. If other guys are cooking he’ll let it ride. If not he’ll step up and make shots every time. He’s always been that way.

[Shooter]

https://c.tenor.com/Hbw2OzRFRScAAAAC/shaq-shaquill-oneal.gif


Nobody on the Celtics plays Jordan chuck ball.

[kawhileonard2]

https://c.tenor.com/Hbw2OzRFRScAAAAC/shaq-shaquill-oneal.gif


Nobody on the Celtics plays Jordan chuck ball.

No one on the Celtics has 6 finals mvp's, 5 league mvp's, 10 scoring titles.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[NBAGOAT]

The top 4 Celtics after Tatum/brown all have high impact beyond a role player. You just don’t see it because most of it is on defense. Tbf you underrate a few bulls guys too by just calling them role players(grant, rodman, kukoc)

[Axe]

The top 4 Celtics after Tatum/brown all have high impact beyond a role player. You just don’t see it because most of it is on defense. Tbf you underrate a few bulls guys too by just calling them role players(grant, rodman, kukoc)
He also called scottie pippen a role player too before. :lol

[3ba11]

Horford is so underrated. He’s a role player because he chooses to be but he’s had several mammoth games and if he truly looked to always find his spot offensively hed score 20 a game easily.

He’s like a baby Tim Duncan in that respect. If other guys are cooking he’ll let it ride. If not he’ll step up and make shots every time. He’s always been that way.


You're right.. he's like the perfect center.. and a perennial all-star, so a massive upgrade over Longley or Cartwright.

btw, you ran from this post:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504833-Luka-amp-Lebron-lack-the-teammate-fits-development-amp-chemistry-to-win-organically&p=14611927&viewfull=1#post14611927

[aj1987]

He hasn't watched a game in a decade.

:roll:

He said he hasn't watched a basketball game since MJ retired and even before that, it was mostly highlights. Dude's a retard.

[NBAGOAT]

You're right.. he's like the perfect center.. and a perennial all-star, so a massive upgrade over Longley or Cartwright.

btw, you ran from this post:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504833-Luka-amp-Lebron-lack-the-teammate-fits-development-amp-chemistry-to-win-organically&p=14611927&viewfull=1#post14611927

You should be comparing him to grant/rodman. Both also aren’t role players

[3ba11]

You should be comparing him to grant/rodman. Both also aren’t role players


Grant was a bum compared to Horford.. Horford would own the shit out of him

And old Rodman wouldn't be playable today and in many lineups back then too.. He wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and averaged 4/8 for entire 97' Playoffs

[NBAGOAT]

Grant was a bum compared to Horford.. Horford would own the shit out of him

And old Rodman wouldn't be playable today and in many lineups back then too.. He wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and averaged 4/8 for entire 97' Playoffs

He’s the only guy who can guard Malone. That alone provided a lot of value.

[ShawkFactory]

You're right.. he's like the perfect center.. and a perennial all-star, so a massive upgrade over Longley or Cartwright.

btw, you ran from this post:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504833-Luka-amp-Lebron-lack-the-teammate-fits-development-amp-chemistry-to-win-organically&p=14611927&viewfull=1#post14611927

I didn’t know we were discussing...someone on the Celtics vs Jordan?

My comment was about how Horford is not really a role-playing big, which was your implication given the thread title.

As for whatever post that was..sometimes I have something else to do than go down a rabbit hole with you. It’s nothing personal.

[ZionDunks]

Horford is so underrated. He’s a role player because he chooses to be but he’s had several mammoth games and if he truly looked to always find his spot offensively hed score 20 a game easily.

He’s like a baby Tim Duncan in that respect. If other guys are cooking he’ll let it ride. If not he’ll step up and make shots every time. He’s always been that way.
Said it before, Al Horford is the alpha in that matchup with Draymond Green on the fact that he’s just skilled and diverse offensively but matches his intensity and grit. Has the edge career wise too individually. This is crucial.

[3ba11]

I didn’t know we were discussing...someone on the Celtics vs Jordan?

My comment was about how Horford is not really a role-playing big, which was your implication given the thread title.

As for whatever post that was..sometimes I have something else to do than go down a rabbit hole with you. It’s nothing personal.


Yes we agreed 100% on Horford

And the other thread was about how you said many people call Lebron a genius, and I responded by saying that smart people don't, like when Phil Jackson said Lebron's game was x-box 1-on-1..

Ultimately, some physiques or players are more cut out to be centers instead of PG's and vice versa, so being a PG is a talent, and not a demonstration of abnormal smarts.. The only thing abnormal is the size/athleticism of Lebron, which is a physical talent that people erroneously conflate with "smarts".. He's just a more athletic and less pure-scoring Luka.

[ShawkFactory]

Yes we agreed 100% on Horford

And the other thread was about how you said many people call Lebron a genius, and I responded by saying that smart people don't, like when Phil Jackson said Lebron's game was x-box 1-on-1..

Ultimately, some physiques or players are more cut out to be centers instead of PG's and vice versa, so being a PG is a talent, and not a demonstration of abnormal smarts.. The only thing abnormal is the size/athleticism of Lebron, which is a physical talent that people erroneously conflate with "smarts".. He's just a more athletic and less pure-scoring Luka.

No he didn't.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I don't know about you guys but what I'm getting out of this thread is that Jaylen Brown is Mike Jordan with three point range. Thanks OP.

[tpols]

There not really built like the bulls at all. The Bulls started scrubs at the 5 and either Rodman or Grant at the 4. And Pippen shooting at the 3. That's terrible spacing.

The Celtics otoh start Horford at the 4 whose a way better shooter than Rodman or Grant, and Jaylen Brown at SF whose a way better shooter than Pippen. So the spacing is night and day. Rob Williams also almost led the league in blocked shots and is more talented than bill Cartwright or luc longley.

Simply put the Celtics have no weaknesses. Every single one of their players is a two way player. Where as with the bulls you're playing 4v5 with Rodman out there on offense. (Ditto dray with the warriors)

The only way the Bulls would beat this team is if MJ went nuts. But we know Gary Payton held him to like 40% shooting so DPOY Marcus Smart could at least replicate that and if he does the Celtics would win.

[ShawkFactory]

There not really built like the bulls at all. The Bulls started scrubs at the 5 and either Rodman or Grant at the 4. And Pippen shooting at the 3. That's terrible spacing.

The Celtics otoh start Horford at the 4 whose a way better shooter than Rodman or Grant, and Jaylen Brown at SF whose a way better shooter than Pippen. So the spacing is night and day. Rob Williams also almost led the league in blocked shots and is more talented than bill Cartwright or luc longley.

Simply put the Celtics have no weaknesses. Every single one of their players is a two way player. Where as with the bulls you're playing 4v5 with Rodman out there on offense. (Ditto dray with the warriors)

The only way the Bulls would beat this team is if MJ went nuts. But we know Gary Payton held him to like 40% shooting so DPOY Marcus Smart could at least replicate that and if he does the Celtics would win.

You can't compare the spacing between a team in 90s and now. Teams specifically build to create space. They didn't back then because the game was played from the inside out.

If this is your mindset them I'm guessing you just think that any team now would beat any team of equal stature in the 90s.

[tpols]

You can't compare the spacing between a team in 90s and now. Teams specifically build to create space. They didn't back then because the game was played from the inside out.

If this is your mindset them I'm guessing you just think that any team now would beat any team of equal stature in the 90s.

Not true. There just weren't many power forwards back then who had Al Horfords combination of 3pt shooting and elite defense. You wouldn't even be able to name anybody.

PFs back then either scored near the rim or took little midrange jumpers. But when we look at Rodman he couldn't even really be counted on to hit open jumpshots. Where as Horford can turn into Reggie Miller in games (like last night). The spacing as a result of this has a tremendous impact. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that.

Like I said MJ would have to go nuts but Boston has a #1 ranked defense and the DPOY on the perimeter and an elite shot blocker in the paint. And eleite defenders at every position. So it would be tough sledding.

[Phoenix]

This is where 3ball blows his load too early. He's trying to equate the Celtics with the Bulls for one reason.....to say that Jordan's Bulls would time warp right into this era and beat the dominant franchise of the last 7-8 years. The problem is that should the Celtics lose this series, you've just done the work for the pro-Lebron crowd. They can just say well, 3-ball says this Celtics team is like the 90's Bulls and they just lost to a team that Lebron beat without the Durant stimulation package.

That's the magic of 3ball, you never have to think too hard about a counter-argument. Just take his own dumb narratives and twist them when they ( usually) don't work out the way he intended. Now the Celts could still win...I have the Warriors in 6...but I wouldn't be shocked if Boston wins. Their defense will keep them in every game, they're resilient, and they have the best combination of being young while also a battle-tested core. That's the similarity that's closest to say the 91 Bulls, but mostly where it ends. The actual parallels in team personnel and how they play isn't close.

[ShawkFactory]

Not true. There just weren't many power forwards back then who had Al Horfords combination of 3pt shooting and elite defense. You wouldn't even be able to name anybody. PFs back then either scored near the rim or took little midrange jumpers. But when we look at Rodman he couldn't even really be counted on to hit open jumpshots. Where as Horford can turn into Reggie Miller in games (like last night). The spacing as a result of this has a tremendous impact. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that.

Like I said MJ would have to go nuts but Boston has a #1 ranked defense and the DPOY on the perimeter and an elite shot blocker in the paint. And eleite defenders at every position. So it would be tough sledding.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Horford creates tremendous spacing. You're misunderstanding what I said. To expand more on it: it's not necessarily that teams build around spacing now, but players do. Guys like Horford didn't exist in the 90s because no PF attempted to play that way. It wasn't what they were asked to do. Now it is, therefore guys are doing it. Horford isn't the only PF now who can do what he does.

Which brings me back to my question: because big guys do more things on the perimeter now does that mean the 90s guys would have no shot? I don't think that's necessarily what you're saying but your logic leads to that conclusion whether you know it or not.

[Phoenix]

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Horford creates tremendous spacing. You're misunderstanding what I said. To expand more on it: it's not necessarily that teams build around spacing now, but players do. Guys like Horford didn't exist in the 90s because no PF attempted to play that way. It wasn't what they were asked to do. Now it is, therefore guys are doing it. Horford isn't the only PF now who can do what he does.

Which brings me back to my question: because big guys do more things on the perimeter now does that mean the 90s guys would have no shot? I don't think that's necessarily what you're saying but your logic leads to that conclusion whether you know it or not.

The answer to this is that if Hordford were in the 90s, he'd play like Horace Grant. And Horace Grant in the year 2020 would probably play like Horford. All of these hypotheticals needs to take in account that players build skillsets for the era they played in. To my memory Horace had a decent 15 foot jumpshot in his arsenal, it's entirely possible he extends that range nowadays because the NBA in 2022 dictates he do so if he wants to be useful.

The NBA has spent 30 years trying to make the league more or less a perimeter league, because perimeter stars are easier to market than 7'1 lamp posts camping in the basket. Even the three best 'bigs' today, and top 3 MVP candidates Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis can dance out on the perimeter. 30 years ago none of them would play as they do now. On the flipside, there are clearly players like Hakeem and David Robinson who had skillsets which could be modified for today's game, but the 90's dictated their approach to the game as it did for everyone across all eras.

[tpols]

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Horford creates tremendous spacing. You're misunderstanding what I said. To expand more on it: it's not necessarily that teams build around spacing now, but players do. Guys like Horford didn't exist in the 90s because no PF attempted to play that way. It wasn't what they were asked to do. Now it is, therefore guys are doing it. Horford isn't the only PF now who can do what he does.

Which brings me back to my question: because big guys do more things on the perimeter now does that mean the 90s guys would have no shot? I don't think that's necessarily what you're saying but your logic leads to that conclusion whether you know it or not.

Rodman would definitely have no shot at being a good 3pt jumpshooter in this era just because guys train for it more. He couldn't even be trusted with 15 footers in his day when plenty of big men could hit an open 15 foot catch and shoot shot.

All I'm saying is that's a huge offensive hole to have against a top ranked defense. They could hard double Jordan all game long.You can't hard double anybody on the Celtics because they have too many snipers who will burn you for it. The game from a shooting perspective has evolved and it has dramatically affected spacing on the court.

[ShawkFactory]

Rodman would definitely have no shot at being a good 3pt jumpshooter in this era just because guys train for it more. He couldn't even be trusted with 15 footers in his day when plenty of big men could hit an open 15 foot catch and shoot shot.

All I'm saying is that's a huge offensive hole to have against a top ranked defense. They could hard double Jordan all game long.You can't hard double anybody on the Celtics because they have too many snipers who will burn you for it. The game from a shooting perspective has evolved and it has dramatically affected spacing on the court.

I wasn't necessarily talking about just Rodman vs Horford. Just the game in general.

Although I doubt Horford would be able to get anything going if Rodman was covering.

[ShawkFactory]

The answer to this is that if Hordford were in the 90s, he'd play like Horace Grant. And Horace Grant in the year 2020 would probably play like Horford. All of these hypotheticals needs to take in account that players build skillsets for the era they played in. To my memory Horace had a decent 15 foot jumpshot in his arsenal, it's entirely possible he extends that range nowadays because the NBA in 2022 dictates he do so if he wants to be useful.

The NBA has spent 30 years trying to make the league more or less a perimeter league, because perimeter stars are easier to market than 7'1 lamp posts camping in the basket. Even the three best 'bigs' today, and top 3 MVP candidates Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis can dance out on the perimeter. 30 years ago none of them would play as they do now. On the flipside, there are clearly players like Hakeem and David Robinson who had skillsets which could be modified for today's game, but the 90's dictated their approach to the game as it did for everyone across all eras.

They are similar players in the sense that Horace was never a superstar or anything close to it but did pretty much what was needed.

[Phoenix]

They are similar players in the sense that Horace was never a superstar or anything close to it but did pretty much what was needed.

Horace was athletic and active, as part of that '3 doberman' trapping defense with Jordan and Pippen. At the very least defensively he would be more than capable of adjusting to today's switching schemes. Actually Horace would probably play center today but these positional distinctions are becoming increasingly meaningless. The Celtics don't even start someone at the 'shooting guard' spot in a traditional sense as Tatum and Brown are both listed as forwards, and both of them have playmaking capability.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxdSVT1UXXA

[ShawkFactory]

Actually, thinking about it more...these Celtics are FAR closer to the bad boys than the Bulls. At least in theory.

Best player is a star but not a superstar. Lockdown defense. Guys who aren’t afraid the muck it up. A slew of guys who can alternate taking over games.

It fits.

[Shooter]

I don't know about you guys but what I'm getting out of this thread is that Jaylen Brown is Mike Jordan with three point range. Thanks OP.

Finally. The first good post your dumbass ever made.