1995 Toni Kukoc vs 2013 Dwyane Wade in the playoffs

[TheGoatest]

Kukoc in 1995:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade in 2013:

15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%
4.6 rpg
4.8 apg

Who you got? The by far second best player on the 2013 Heat, or the distant third best player on the 1995 Bulls?

[warriorfan]

Wade.

He was a better player but it is misleading using his statistical output since it got diminished by LeBron ball.

[TheGoatest]

Wade.

He was a better player but it is misleading using his statistical output since it got diminished by LeBron ball.

Kukoc had the handicap of playing with a number-suffocating teammate whose team suddenly had 7 players who averaged career highs in ppg and two first-time all-stars in the 1993-94 season when he retired, yet Kukoc still managed to average numbers that are objectively better than Wade's from the 2013 playoffs.

The team results between 1995 Bulls and 2013 Heat were vastly different though. What happened? :confusedshrug:

[SATAN]

We are all waiting for Sperm m8's completely objective basketball assessment.

As far as role players, I'd take Kukoc personally. He can also dunk from the free throw line with ease.

Strange how noone mentions when "LeGM" "had to" trade Wade from the Cavs. :milton

[warriorfan]

Kukoc had the handicap of playing with a number-suffocating teammate whose team suddenly had 7 players who averaged career highs in ppg and two first-time all-stars in the 1993-94 season when he retired, yet Kukoc still managed to average numbers that are objectively better than Wade's from the 2013 playoffs.

The team results between 1995 Bulls and 2013 Heat were vastly different though. What happened? :confusedshrug:

So 7 players all of a sudden had career highs? That is not a coincidence. That’s what happens when your team runs a dynamic equal opportunity offense with great ball movement. That type of system increases the potential output of players on the team as opposed to a simplistic, ball domination, drive and kick offense which has stagnant ball movement and forces players into spot up shooting roles…even when their skill set is able to do more for the team, which ultimate decreases the potential output of the players on the team.

[Jasper]

Kukoc in 1995:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade in 2013:

15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%
4.6 rpg
4.8 apg

Who you got? The by far second best player on the 2013 Heat, or the distant third best player on the 1995 Bulls?

two of my favorite players ,,, both super intelligent about the game.
Have to go with Wade , speed is the key. But if wade misses Tony has all the boards.

[TheGoatest]

two of my favorite players ,,, both super intelligent about the game.
Have to go with Wade , speed is the key. But if wade misses Tony has all the boards.

You seem to be comparing their entire careers, and not the specific subject of this thread.

[Shooter]

Wade.

He was a better player but it is misleading using his statistical output since it got diminished by LeBron ball.

Wrong. You guys all said LeBron elevates his team mates to the point that I've heard:

AD > Kareem / Shaq
Mo Williams > Pippen
Kyrie > Curry

Which is it fakkit?

[Overdrive]

Kukoc is better than Wade? So it's obvious why Pippen made the 2nd round in 94.

[8Ball]

Kukoc in 1995:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade in 2013:

15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%
4.6 rpg
4.8 apg

Who you got? The by far second best player on the 2013 Heat, or the distant third best player on the 1995 Bulls?

Toni kukoc

[8Ball]

So 7 players all of a sudden had career highs? That is not a coincidence. That’s what happens when your team runs a dynamic equal opportunity offense with great ball movement. That type of system increases the potential output of players on the team as opposed to a simplistic, ball domination, drive and kick offense which has stagnant ball movement and forces players into spot up shooting roles…even when their skill set is able to do more for the team, which ultimate decreases the potential output of the players on the team.

Why is draymond green being diminished by curry ball then?

[3ba11]

.
Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%


CONCLUSION: Jordan won 4 rings with less help than Lebron's least-help ring (fyi: Pippen averaged 20 on 45 TS in 93' Finals with lower gamescore than Majerle, aka worse than 13' Wade's Finals)

[TheGoatest]

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.

[3ba11]

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.


We have everyone's Finals numbers



Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%


CONCLUSION: Jordan won 4 rings with less help than Lebron's least-help ring (fyi: Pippen averaged 20 on 45 TS in 93' Finals with lower gamescore than Majerle)

Also, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)

[TheGoatest]

We have everyone's Finals numbers



Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%


CONCLUSION: Jordan won 4 rings with less help than Lebron's least-help ring (fyi: Pippen averaged 20 on 45 TS in 93' Finals with lower gamescore than Majerle)

Also, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.

[3ba11]

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.


We have everyone's Finals numbers



Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%


CONCLUSION: Jordan won 4 rings with less help than Lebron's least-help ring (fyi: Pippen averaged 20 on 45 TS in 93' Finals with lower gamescore than Majerle)

Also, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)

[TheGoatest]

We have everyone's Finals numbers



Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%


CONCLUSION: Jordan won 4 rings with less help than Lebron's least-help ring (fyi: Pippen averaged 20 on 45 TS in 93' Finals with lower gamescore than Majerle)

Also, Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.

[3ba11]

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.



Conference-strength can vary, so only the Finals stats matter



Finals

13' Wade ...... 20 on 48% (outscored opposing #1 option and near-equal partner to Lebron)

96' Kukoc...... 13 on 42%
97' Kukoc........ 8 on 41%
98' Kukoc...... 15 on 50%

96' Pippen..... 16 on 34%
97' Pippen..... 20 on 42%
98' Pippen..... 16 on 41%
93' Pippen..... 20 on 45 TS


^^^ Jordan won 4 Finals with less sidekick help than Lebron's least-help ring

[TheGoatest]

"Conference strength can vary"? Aren't you the one who is constantly saying how bad the east was during LeBron's finals runs?
So what happened to Wade's east series numbers in the 2013 playoffs if the east was so "weak"? Shouldn't he have averaged well over 20 in the 3 eastern series of the 2013 playoffs then?

[3ba11]

"Conference strength can vary"? Aren't you the one who is constantly saying how bad the east was during LeBron's finals runs?
So what happened to Wade's east series numbers in the 2013 playoffs if the east was so "weak"? Shouldn't he have averaged well over 20 in the 3 eastern series of the 2013 playoffs then?


The weak East allowed Lebron to win the conference with just 24 ppg and 16 from his sidekick - neither do dominated because the weak East didn't require it

But the West required more from both, including 20 from Wade (outscored opposing 1st option) and a game 6 bailout for Lebron plus 37 in game 7

[Shooter]

Kukoc (the distant #3 on the Bulls) after the first two rounds of the 1995 playoffs:

13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%
6.8 rpg
5.7 apg

Wade (the clear #2 on the Heat) after the first two rounds of the 2013 playoffs:

13.0 ppg on .453 fg% & .000 3pt%
4.8 rpg
5.4 apg

We'll never know how Kukoc would've done in the 1995 finals because his clearly-superior-to-Wade numbers after the first two rounds of the playoffs weren't enough for his team to advance past the 2nd round for some reason.

Conclusion: LeBron won a chip/FMVP with a #2 averaging 15.9 ppg on .457 fg% & .250 3pt%, 4.6 rpg & 4.8 apg in the playoffs. jordon couldn't advance past the 2nd round with a #3 averaging 13.8 ppg on .477 fg% & .438 3pt%, 6.8 rpg & 5.7 apg.

Ether

[8Ball]

I always knew 2013 was one of the hardest carry jobs ever.

Wade was there in name only.

[Shooter]

I always knew 2013 was one of the hardest carry jobs ever.

Wade was there in name only.

Shits wild how bitch ass cry babies whined about Pippen's low scoring yet Wade scored even less in the 2013 playffs than Pippen's worst championship year.

Puts things into perspective after all


There's levels to this shit.

:dancin