People claiming modern NBA players are better athletes

[90sgoat]

There's a thread on RealGM with a lot of people talking about how it is inevitable that people get better as athletes because of evolution in training and so on.

I don't really see that, what I see is that a lot of the 80s and 90s athletes are holding up just fine, here are some examples:

- Sergey Bubka - held WR 20 years from 1994 to 2014 despite advancements in pole tech
- Michael Johnson - held 400 m record for 17 years from 1999 to 2016, previously held 200 m for 12 years until Usain Bolt
- Usain Bolt - holds 100 m and 200 m records for 13 years counting from 2009
- Jonathan Edwards - holds triple jump record for 26 years counting from 1996
- Alexander Karelin - best greco-roman wrestler by far with 3 olympic gold medals
- Michael Jordan - only NBA player to have ever dribble dunked from the FT line
- Bo Jackson - only professional athlete to be named All Star in two sports

The thing that people don't get is that once in a generation athletic ability is not something you can train with some nerd coach, it is 100% genetic.

Second, people think that because of globalization then there's more athletes now, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Today there are so many fat people, so many playing video games, so many trying to get college careers (look at decline in football), that there just aren't as many athletes to choose from.

In addition, players in the 90s were just on far more potent doping drugs. I don't like to admit it, but its true. The records from the Tour De France in the 90s were not broken until 20 years later with whatever wonder drugs that Chris Froome was on.

People don't get it, in the 80s, all these middle class people didn't exist. Sports was a far more attractive prospect for the working class. They were tougher, they used more drugs.

[FKAri]

I like how you summarized Michael Jordan's athletic prowess with, "only NBA player to have ever dribble dunked from the FT line".
That should be on his tombstone. It should be the entirety of his obituary. Amazing stuff OP.

Regarding the point of this thread, I think you make some good points but they are overwhelmed by more convincing counter arguments. But I do think the NFL will suffer going forward due to some of the reasons you mention. But the NFL's failure will only further bolster the NBA's talent pool.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Record holders are outliers by definition. If you want to track overall athletic advancement you look at averages.

[90sgoat]

Record holders are outliers by definition. If you want to track overall athletic advancement you look at averages.

Why though?

The NBA is a couple hundred players and if we go by stars then a couple of dozen.

The comparison in the NBA might essentially come down to the top 25 players in the league and are they really more athletic?

Lebron is almost 40 and has played for 20 years and there's been no one as athletic as Lebron in the last 20 years. There's no one as athletic as Shaq or even David Robinson. Who is as athletic as Karl Malone? Like Barkley?

You have Zion and Ja, but that's Kemp and Iverson.

I don't see it at all actually.

[SATAN]

I like how you summarized Michael Jordan's athletic prowess with, "only NBA player to have ever dribble dunked from the FT line".
That should be on his tombstone. It should be the entirety of his obituary. Amazing stuff OP.



:roll:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why though?

I despair if this truly requires explanation but I will try at least this one time. A guy like Lebron James or MJ is not the average NBA athlete and thus not representative of the what a normal player is like. So if you are talking about the overall athleticism of the league you have to look at a guy like Payton Pritchard just as much as Jaylen Brown. The greatest athletes of all time are not the only athletes in a league.

[8Ball]

Record holders are outliers by definition. If you want to track overall athletic advancement you look at averages.

Ding ding ding.

Wilt was an amazing athlete but the 60s had pretty crappy athletes on average in the NBA compared to 80s.

[Round Mound]

The strength, speed, power and explosiveness of Barkley (84), Malone (85) and Shaq (92) today?

[Baller789]

Record holders are outliers by definition. If you want to track overall athletic advancement you look at averages.

You can. But the problem with this argument is that sports rule changes players performances.

Look no further than todays NBA. The high scoring and inflated stats are more due to rule changes than anything else.

Sure players might be better, but by how much? Its almost impossible to say because of how much different the game is today.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You can. But the problem with this argument is that sports rule changes players performances.

Look no further than todays NBA. The high scoring and inflated stats are more due to rule changes than anything else.

Sure players might be better, but by how much? Its almost impossible to say because of how much different the game is today.I am talking height weight speed etc not ppg.

[ShawkFactory]

Why though?

The NBA is a couple hundred players and if we go by stars then a couple of dozen.

The comparison in the NBA might essentially come down to the top 25 players in the league and are they really more athletic?

Lebron is almost 40 and has played for 20 years and there's been no one as athletic as Lebron in the last 20 years. There's no one as athletic as Shaq or even David Robinson. Who is as athletic as Karl Malone? Like Barkley?

You have Zion and Ja, but that's Kemp and Iverson.

I don't see it at all actually.

Because that’s how it works

[Bronbron23]

I am talking height weight speed etc not ppg.

This is the shortest players have been in the last 30 or 40 years I believe. It's also the heaviest.

[Baller789]

I am talking height weight speed etc not ppg.

I dont think we have concrete numbers to compare past to present NBA athlethicism. We have height and weight, but that doesn't help much.

[Baller789]

This is the shortest players have been in the last 30 or 40 years I believe. It's also the heaviest.

Small ball is real.

[plowking]

Humans aren't evolving in 20-40 year spans to the point that we are creating more athletic individuals. Same with "nutrition" lol...

Standards of living, recovery procedures and the biggest one - sport specific training - is what is making athletes on average better.

Outliers are outliers. There will always be absolute genetic freaks that are ideally built and are top of the top no matter when you throw them into the league. These outliers also go through peaks and troughs though. There comes a time where these top athletes are abusing the shit out of all the PEDs available to them because testing isn't where it needs to be, and then it catches up. Then new drugs come along they can't detect.

[Shooter]

Literal grocery baggers (Starks) and auto mechanics (Mark Eaton) were making all-star selections during the weak era of basketball.

Now half the top players in the NBA aren't even from the U.S. The talent pool is simply deeper.

[Bronbron23]

Literal grocery baggers (Starks) and auto mechanics (Mark Eaton) were making all-star selections during the weak era of basketball.

Now half the top players in the NBA aren't even from the U.S. The talent pool is simply deeper.

Yeah it's deeper but it's not like that really changes anything. Take these finals for instance. Where are all the crazy talented international players? I can't think of any on either side. This was the case for most of the recent finals with the exception of Greek who impact wise would be similar to Kareem in the 90's. Who else is really a threat? Where all the international players that would give the past greats problems?

Plus it's deeper on both sides so your favorite player enjoys the deepness just like everyone else. It really changes nothing.

[iamgine]

Modern NBA players are better athletes but that's not because of human evolution.

The reason is much bigger talent pool, increase in nutrition, much better technology, recovery, skills, etc.


You try doing what players are doing nowadays in Converse shoes and see if you don't tear your ACL. Just by that alone you will never see 60s players able to do the moves modern players do consistently.

[Bronbron23]

Modern NBA players are better athletes but that's not because of human evolution.

The reason is much bigger talent pool, increase in nutrition, much better technology, recovery, skills, etc.


You try doing what players are doing nowadays in Converse shoes and see if you don't tear your ACL. Just by that alone you will never see 60s players able to do the moves modern players do consistently.

Not sure how players played in shoes pre 1990. I don't know why that doesn't factor in to the miles played arguments. Playing 10 games in those bricks is like playing 50 in the pillows that this generation has on their feet.

[iamgine]

Not sure how players played in shoes pre 1990. I don't know why that doesn't factor in to the miles played arguments. Playing 10 games in those bricks is like playing 50 in the pillows that this generation has on their feet.

That's not true either. By using Converse type shoes, they just didn't/couldn't move as explosively as often. So, the impact is actually lower. And their feet moved much more naturally than in modern shoes.

[PP34Deuce]

At each position you have outliers. You also just have mire nba players today that can go one on one over team ball.

[Bronbron23]

That's not true either. By using Converse type shoes, they just didn't/couldn't move as explosively as often. So, the impact is actually lower. And their feet moved much more naturally than in modern shoes.

What. They moved fine. Plus even a slight jog in those shoes are horrible. Plus the 80's was very fast pace and up and down much like today.

[iamgine]

What. They moved fine. Plus even a slight jog in those shoes are horrible. Plus the 80's was very fast pace and up and down much like today.

This is a wrong assumption. For people used to modern shoes, Converse feels horrible. However if you're used to it, it actually promotes a more natural movement and healthier feet.

[90sgoat]

Modern bball shoes are crap.

They're designer trainers made to sell to urban people, but the athletes have to play in them so they will sell.

It's why they get injured.

A basketball shoe needs high ankle support and like lifting shoes, it definitely shouldn't have a lot of bounce in it. It just needs some padding, but otherwise to be flat and stable.

[Bronbron23]

This is a wrong assumption. For people used to modern shoes, Converse feels horrible. However if you're used to it, it actually promotes a more natural movement and healthier feet.

Bruh u just making up shit now. Those shoes were terrible. If what you're saying is true they'd bring those bricks back.

[Walk on Water]

Players in the 90s were better but the biggest reason is they were tougher and more dedicated to actually playing. Today, a lot of players are more focused on social media, likes, business, partying, etc..

[sdot_thadon]

I think the baseline for athleticism much higher in this era. You got guys on modern benches that can't get burn but could compete in Slam dunk contests from earlier eras and probably win lol.

[Jasper]

like to see this argument in baseball lmfao

[90sgoat]

Players in the 90s were better but the biggest reason is they were tougher and more dedicated to actually playing. Today, a lot of players are more focused on social media, likes, business, partying, etc..

There's a reason these primadonnas get paid obscene amounts of money, they're ballers, but also actors, cultural "icons", but not least they're tools of propaganda for the elites.

They literally are paid obscene money to uphold the globalist ideology and distract people from the owners and their friends and how they're ****ing up the world for their agenda.

[90sgoat]

I think the baseline for athleticism much higher in this era. You got guys on modern benches that can't get burn but could compete in Slam dunk contests from earlier eras and probably win lol.

Absurd claim.

Players today are SHIT at dunking.

Brent Barry dunked from the FT line. Brent ****ing Barry, did a better FT line dunk than Zach Lavine.

[999Guy]

Record holders are outliers by definition. If you want to track overall athletic advancement you look at averages.

Bingo. The NBA has more athletes now.

Comparing D-Rob to Zion is inconsequential. Competition to make the league is at all-time highs. The average player is better on account of it.

[FKAri]

There's no direct answer to this question, as many players have not yet shown their full potential in the NBA. I think there are a few people who might disagree with my opinion. The greatest basketball player ever is Michael Jordan. You say basketball, and you think Jordan. Jordan's genius set the standard for future players in the league. As a result, he was the first NBA player to become its best defender in a single season and the most valuable among all the NBA players (https://crowdmarket.net/NBAplayers). Still, some active players' careers, like LeBron James and Kevin Durant's, are not over, and there are quite a few up and coming young talents like Zion Williamson and Luka Doncic getting into the league.

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