Bitcoin to $15,000 or $45,000?

[Cleverness]

Bitcoin has been hanging around $30,000 for about a month now and starting to feel like the ~$6-8k range it stayed around for most of 2018....

What do you guys think will happen next for BTC? $15k or $45k?

[8Ball]

Bitcoin holders by and large don't use bitcoin as a currency, only as a pseudo store of fiat.

Since bitcoin has no real world utility as a store of value since it doesn't even hedge against inflation, my prediction is that it goes no where in price.

The only reason people buy Bitcoin right now is hoping they will be able to dump it at a higher price to someone else.

[SATAN]

Why do you choose these numbers?

[SATAN]

The only reason people buy Bitcoin right now is hoping they will be able to dump it at a higher price to someone else.

Not the only reason at all. Plenty of people are worried about upcoming cbdcs. Not to mention inflation has been EXTREMELY high in some countries.

[Cleverness]

Why do you choose these numbers?

https://c.tenor.com/bxeM9N2IXLsAAAAC/osita-osita-iheme.gif

[Objectivity]

Bearish till at least Q3 2023. Bullish from 2024 on.

[Objectivity]

I foresee a post 2018 bubble like slump for crypto. Then comes the truly massive bubble of all bubbles.

[Shogon]

Ultimately, Bitcoin is an infinitely deflating force that is diametrically opposed to an infinitely inflating one(fiat). Unlike gold and silver, people, regardless of holding size, can take full delivery of said holdings. The markets can be manipulated but for so long until supply shock wins as it has with literally every other halving.

The end value is infinity. What it is priced at today or tomorrow is immaterial. The value is infinite when priced in dollars.

The fully realized value in today's terms is the global total of all value divided by 21 million.

To answer your question directly, 15k would be less surprising as the next number that get hits between the two, simply because there are still too many retards to count that play around with leverage and margin and the exchanges pass this info to the right people who wipe them out... and all it takes is some major news headline that sends people panicking into doing things that they don't understand or using said headlines in order to manipulate the market. And I think downside is more likely than upside because the hype cycle has died down, at least until the next halving. This literally always happens.

And then the halving occurs, the market becomes that less easily manipulated, and boom.

Who cares what the next move is? If you plan on being alive in 10 years, the price will always be higher unless there is a really good reason for it to not be.

If countries start adopting Bitcoin because they don't trust each other, and they already are, game theory takes over and it's inevitable.

[SATAN]

10k or lower...

[Shogon]

10k or lower...

You have no reason to say that and you don't know anything, you're just pulling a number out of your ass, even if it somehow comes to fruition.

Whales are playing games and scooping people up, as they always, always do.

[Off the Court]

As the FED is forced to turn off the hose, all the BS fake assets will collapse. Bubbles are popping.

All the BS tech businesses that are operating on debt will be forced to close shop.

And yes all of the garbage useless crypto that has no actual use will be sold off.

Meanwhile real assets, like food, oil, housing, will keep their value or even rise.

When the FED turns off the hose, it causes a moment of truth. It forces us to see what is real and what is fake.

All these shit coins and alt coins will go to $0.

BTC and few others will survive, but it will take years before they return to the bubble prices formed earlier. Maybe even a decade.

NFT market will collapse.

It's all going down. People need to pay rent, and eat.

[Shogon]

As the FED is forced to turn off the hose, all the BS fake assets will collapse. Bubbles are popping.

All the BS tech businesses that are operating on debt will be forced to close shop.

And yes all of the garbage useless crypto that has no actual use will be sold off.

Meanwhile real assets, like food, oil, housing, will keep their value or even rise.

When the FED turns off the hose, it causes a moment of truth. It forces us to see what is real and what is fake.

All these shit coins and alt coins will go to $0.

BTC and few others will survive, but it will take years before they return to the bubble prices formed earlier. Maybe even a decade.

NFT market will collapse.

It's all going down. People need to pay rent, and eat.

Another idiot spouting off shit you don't know about.

Everything is selling off. None of it makes sense. House values are coming down in a massive way.

At the end of the day, no matter what the fed does, they will always devalue the dollar. Always, always, always. There is only one trade in the long term. Get out of dollars, wherever that is for you.

Bitcoin is the only fixed supply asset on Earth.

[highwhey]

Another idiot spouting off shit you don't know about.

Everything is selling off. None of it makes sense. House values are coming down in a massive way.

At the end of the day, no matter what the fed does, they will always devalue the dollar. Always, always, always. There is only one trade in the long term. Get out of dollars, wherever that is for you.

Bitcoin is the only fixed supply asset on Earth.

have u even heard of ISHcoin? it has a 40 trillion supply, early entry available at cents per coin, will shoot up to $5 dollars soon, the starter Jeff is a solid person, he's always been focused on making ISH better so you know the coin will thrive. he's a self made millionaire in new york that sits front seat at every knicks game because he purchased season tickets and totally not because he uses the NBA media pass as a free pass to nba games.

[Shogon]

have u even heard of ISHcoin? it has a 40 trillion supply, early entry available at cents per coin, will shoot up to $5 dollars soon, the starter Jeff is a solid person, he's always been focused on making ISH better so you know the coin will thrive. he's a self made millionaire in new york that sits front seat at every knicks game because he purchased season tickets and totally not because he uses the NBA media pass as a free pass to nba games.

Anyways, short term is anyone's guess, all assets are down including gold, silver, real estate, stocks, crypto... as people sell shit because they're fearful of lower interest rates... it's just irrational fear all around right now. People are fleeing to dollars which are devaluing at a record pace, lol.

ON TOP OF THE FEAR OF YOUR TYPICAL PERSON...

The precious metals markets are manipulated by the big banks.

Crypto is manipulated by whales.

Everyone is retarded.

There's no telling what happens, all assets will probably continue to depreciate in the short term.

But as I said... long term? Everything wins against paper currency. If you're retiring in a year or 5 years or however the **** long is anyone's guess, you may want to move into dollars. If you're not retiring for decades to come, you would be stupid to give up your assets unless you think you're smart enough to out time the market.

I don't know how anyone could seriously believe that the dollar's days are not numbered.

[Shogon]

Regardless of short term, never ever forget this. Ever.

https://i.postimg.cc/pT4Ps17V/fy3ri12fqd691.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/7ZkZvdLf/3245346gf4r.jpg

[FultzNationRISE]

Anyways, short term is anyone's guess, all assets are down including gold, silver, real estate, stocks, crypto... as people sell shit because they're fearful of lower interest rates... it's just irrational fear all around right now. People are fleeing to dollars which are devaluing at a record pace, lol.

ON TOP OF THE FEAR OF YOUR TYPICAL PERSON...

The precious metals markets are manipulated by the big banks.

Crypto is manipulated by whales.

Everyone is retarded.

There's no telling what happens, all assets will probably continue to depreciate in the short term.

But as I said... long term? Everything wins against paper currency. If you're retiring in a year or 5 years or however the **** long is anyone's guess, you may want to move into dollars. If you're not retiring for decades to come, you would be stupid to give up your assets unless you think you're smart enough to out time the market.

I don't know how anyone could seriously believe that the dollar's days are not numbered.

Knowledge will always be valuable, and I'd be happy to share some of my small humble supply with you in exchange for a few of your increasingly valueless USD.

PM me.

[Off the Court]

Another idiot spouting off shit you don't know about.

Everything is selling off. None of it makes sense. House values are coming down in a massive way.

At the end of the day, no matter what the fed does, they will always devalue the dollar. Always, always, always. There is only one trade in the long term. Get out of dollars, wherever that is for you.

Bitcoin is the only fixed supply asset on Earth.

It actually makes perfect sense. I'll put it in Shogon talk:

The only thing keeping the economy afloat the past two years was "money printer go BRRRRR".

They went "BRRRRR" too much and have to turn the printer off. All the businesses and assets propped up by it will now collapse. Only the assets we actually need will continue to profit.

Crypto was being propped up in a massive bubble just like stocks were. Now that bubble is popping.

Everything is forced to correct back to reality. And the reality with crypto is that it's real world value isn't anywhere remotely close to what it was positioned at.

I'm sorry man. If I were you I'd get into dollars. At the end of the day that's what you use to eat with.

[Shogon]

I'm sorry man. If I were you I'd get into dollars. At the end of the day that's what you use to eat with.

That's because you're in favor of maintaining the current centralized world order where we have masters that try to manipulate the money supply and **** us all sorts of up the ass, and I am not. I am in favor of a decentralized system.

You want puppet masters. I do not.

As I said, short term, whatever, sure, we haven't come close to the bottom in all markets... long term, I am right. There is only ONE long term trade. If you want to gamble and try to time the market, go ahead. And that long term trade is against the USD and every other fiat bullshit toilet paper, regardless of what you put your wealth in.

[Off the Court]

Things look bad for crypto and this is why. The idea of it replacing Fiat was abandoned long ago. It's impossible for our Gov to operate on BTC. Just impossible. That's reality.

So instead it became labeled as a storage of money, similar to Gold.

Now we are seeing that BTC can not even be trusted as a place to store wealth. It is collapsing while gold is not.

This level of volatility is a huge knock. People simply trust gold more than chunks of invisible code.

[Shogon]

Wow, so you're just a dinosaur. Ok, not wasting another ounce of energy on you with this subject. Clueless. Get left behind, dipshit. Get back to me in 10 years.

[FultzNationRISE]

Wow, so you're just a dinosaur. Ok, not wasting another ounce of energy on you with this subject. Clueless. Get left behind, dipshit. Get back to me in 10 years.

If you're putting significant money into bitcoin you might wanna consider as many perspectives on it as possible.

Nobody can predict the future (especially not establishment outsiders like all of us). You might be right about crypto but you could just as easily be wrong.

Don't know if you've watched Wall Street, but according to Gordon Gecko: "Rule number 1, don't get emotional about stock."

For whatever reason youre about as emotional as one could possibly be when it comes to bitcoin. Regardless of where it's bound to go, such an approach does not maximize your odds of making the right decisions at each point along the way IMO.

I strongly suggest PMing me.

[Off the Court]

I don't know how anyone could seriously believe that the dollar's days are not numbered.
In theory, the US dollar can inflate infinitely.

There was a time when you could eat lunch with some loose change.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/37/6e/4d376e8249ef22ad3cf553555baf95fa.jpg


Today these same items would be in the neighborhood of $10.

And a century from now they will be in the neighborhood of $100.

and then $1000.

The US removes the penny and decimals. The dollar is the new penny and $100 turns into the new $1.

We start over

etc

If we can see a cheeseburger gradually go from 25 cents to $10. Why can't we watch it go to $100 over the decades?

Tell me at what point in this infinite scale does the dollar collapse? And why?

[Shogon]

Tell me at what point in this infinite scale does the dollar collapse? And why?

In a situation such as we are in now, with unchecked debt and a fed that has to raise rates otherwise let inflation run rampant, the debt could become unserviceable as the fed continues to raise rates.

You think Russia and China are happy for the dollar to be a world reserve currency?

All it takes is belief that the US isn't going to pay back its debt and another country to start dumping the dollar and it's all over.


And you do realize that your cute little graphic does nothing but prove my point about there only being ONE long term trade and that being basically any asset vs the dollar, right?

[FultzNationRISE]

In theory, the US dollar can inflate infinitely.

There was a time when you could eat lunch with some loose change.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4d/37/6e/4d376e8249ef22ad3cf553555baf95fa.jpg


Today these same items would be in the neighborhood of $10.

And a century from now they will be in the neighborhood of $100.

and then $1000.

The US removes the penny and decimals. The dollar is the new penny and $100 turns into the new $1.

We start over

etc

If we can see a cheeseburger gradually go from 25 cents to $10. Why can't we watch it go to $100 over the decades?

Tell me at what point in this infinite scale does the dollar collapse? And why?

Well the issue is population growth. It has been the great constant throughout human history, and is essentially the backbone of national investment which enables peace, prosperity and defense. Capital supply increases commensurate with population/labor increases. The stock market itself is essentially one long-running ponzi scheme dependent on an increase in gross demand with each generation.

This entire system has sustained our relatively stable modern society, but it IS in essence a bubble, and it is tied directly to population growth which cannot be sustained indefinitely. We already cannibalize the planet to stave off collapse, but even that cant continue much longer. Once we can no longer rely on at least a tenuous peace sustained by mutual growth... things will turn very, VERY ugly.

It is a certainty of mathematics and biology. The situation is in fact far more dire than people appreciate.

Shogon oughtta PM me but he’s being a baby.

[Shogon]

Well the issue is population growth. It has been the great constant throughout human history, and is essentially the backbone of national investment which enables peace, prosperity and defense. Capital supply increases commensurate with population/labor increases. The stock market itself is essentially one long-running ponzi scheme dependent on an increase in gross demand with each generation.

This entire system has sustained our relatively stable modern society, but it IS in essence a bubble, and it is tied directly to population growth which cannot be sustained indefinitely. We already cannibalize the planet to stave off collapse, but even that cant continue much longer. Once we can no longer rely on at least a tenuous peace sustained by mutual growth... things will turn very, VERY ugly.

It is a certainty of mathematics and biology. The situation is in fact far more dire than people appreciate.

Shogon oughtta PM me but he’s being a baby.

Bitcoin fixes this problem.

And you are right, we are so very ****ed and nobody even knows it.

May from a post collapse/apocalyptic world, emerge a fixed supply currency that governments can't control. Amen.

[Off the Court]

In a situation such as we are in now, with unchecked debt and a fed that has to raise rates otherwise let inflation run rampant, the debt could become unserviceable as the fed continues to raise rates.

You think Russia and China are happy for the dollar to be a world reserve currency?

All it takes is belief that the US isn't going to pay back its debt and another country to start dumping the dollar and it's all over.


And you do realize that your cute little graphic does nothing but prove my point about there only being ONE long term trade and that being basically any asset vs the dollar, right?
Pay back it's debt to who? Itself?

Seriously tell me how that plays out please? Have you actually thought this through? At what point does every business in the country declare that they no longer want USD? And then tell me how they get around paying taxes in other currencies that the our Gov will not accept?

Venezuela saw extreme hyperinflation above 500% and still uses the Bolivar.


The USD is secure as the world currency btw because every other currency is inflating too. Every nation uses fiat and every nation goes "BRRRR" when they need a bailout.

[FultzNationRISE]

Pay back it's debt to who? Itself?

Seriously tell me how that plays out please? Have you actually thought this through? At what point does every business in the country declare that they no longer want USD? And then tell me how they get around paying taxes in other currencies that the our Gov will not accept?

Venezuela saw extreme hyperinflation above 500% and still uses the Bolivar.


The USD is secure as the world currency btw because every other currency is inflating too. Every nation uses fiat and every nation goes "BRRRR" when they need a bailout.

Let's talk about it...


Here. (patreon.com/tofp)

[Off the Court]

Well the issue is population growth. It has been the great constant throughout human history, and is essentially the backbone of national investment which enables peace, prosperity and defense. Capital supply increases commensurate with population/labor increases. The stock market itself is essentially one long-running ponzi scheme dependent on an increase in gross demand with each generation.

This entire system has sustained our relatively stable modern society, but it IS in essence a bubble, and it is tied directly to population growth which cannot be sustained indefinitely. We already cannibalize the planet to stave off collapse, but even that cant continue much longer. Once we can no longer rely on at least a tenuous peace sustained by mutual growth... things will turn very, VERY ugly.

It is a certainty of mathematics and biology. The situation is in fact far more dire than people appreciate.

Shogon oughtta PM me but he’s being a baby.

Population growth and what our planet can or can not sustain goes beyond whatever we decide to use as currency.

You're talking about a world issue, and a US dollar issue.

[Off the Court]

Bitcoin fixes this problem.


El Salvador adopted BTC as it's currency.

How do you think that's working out for them right now?

[FultzNationRISE]

Population growth and what our planet can or can not sustain goes beyond whatever we decide to use as currency.

You're talking about a world issue, and a US dollar issue.


You posited that inflation is no big deal.

My point is that's only true so long as our economic sphere grows commensurately, which it always has.

When it stops growing - and it will have to at some point - there will be catastrophic problems.

[Off the Court]

You posited that inflation is no big deal.

My point is that's only true so long as our economic sphere grows commensurately, which it always has.

When it stops growing - and it will have to at some point - there will be catastrophic problems.
I'm trying to calculate why. Are you speaking on what Japan is going through right now? Shrinking population equates to shrinking GDP. Less people making less things?

I still don't understand how inflation factors into this catastrophic issue. If our GDP tops out they can "BRRR" less.

[Doomsday Dallas]

I've already broken down the math on this one... Inflation is what wipes out the middle class because the average median income does not inflate at the same rate.

median income in the year 2000: $31,850
median income in the year 2022: $35,900 (13% increase)

$1.00 in the year 2000 is now worth $1.70 today. (70% increase)

You could support yourself on the average salary 20 years, today you cannot. That is because of inflation and out of control spending.

[Off the Court]

Inflation can be harmful yes. And if wages aren't increasing along with inflation that is harmful.

I'm just trying to figure out how the US Dollar collapses.

Every nation uses fiat, and every currency sees inflation. That is the nature of fiat.

[bladefd]

Pay back it's debt to who? Itself?

Seriously tell me how that plays out please? Have you actually thought this through? At what point does every business in the country declare that they no longer want USD? And then tell me how they get around paying taxes in other currencies that the our Gov will not accept?

Venezuela saw extreme hyperinflation above 500% and still uses the Bolivar.


The USD is secure as the world currency btw because every other currency is inflating too. Every nation uses fiat and every nation goes "BRRRR" when they need a bailout.

Other countries also have an investment interest in the US government. Something like a third of all US debt is foreign-owned. Nations would have to take massive economic hits to write up those debts as losses with no return on them.

Debt is not always bad by itself - there is good debt and bad debt. People wrongly think debt is only all bad. Debt can both be owed and it can be owned, but ultimately are both called debt. This is why you can't look at total US debt by itself without breaking it down further into who that debt is owed to & to whom, and how much is owned & to whom. I believe a majority of the US national debt is owed & owned to ourselves (i.e. US citizen borrowing from a bank for mortgage or a bank borrowing from an even bigger bank, etc). We have not borrowed 30 trillion from foreign nations lol.

Don't get me wrong. We must still bring down our annual deficit. We cannot be running at the current pace. The best place for savings IMO are in healthcare and military. I just don't know how. They can create an independent committee to analyze different agencies and start shredding.

[Off the Court]

Other countries also have an investment interest in the US government. Something like a third of all US debt is foreign-owned. Nations would have to take massive economic hits to write up those debts as losses with no return on them.

Debt is not always bad by itself - there is good debt and bad debt. People wrongly think debt is only all bad. Debt can both be owed and it can be owned, but ultimately are both called debt. This is why you can't look at total US debt by itself without breaking it down further into who that debt is owed to & to whom, and how much is owned & to whom. I believe a majority of the US national debt is owed & owned to ourselves (i.e. US citizen borrowing from a bank for mortgage or a bank borrowing from an even bigger bank, etc). We have not borrowed 30 trillion from foreign nations lol
Inflation actually helps personal debt. That $5,000 you borrowed back in 2005 was a big deal then, but not so much now.

I think the same concept applies to foreign debt. Those billions we borrowed back in the 90s are chump change now.

Assuming some forced interest payments are happening.

I could understand the concern on inflation with the USD if it was the only currency inflating. But that isn't the case at all.

[SATAN]

You have no reason to say that and you don't know anything,

:lol

The next 2 months is gonna be fun.

[Nanners]

As I have been saying around here for the past couple years - the reserve banks are the most powerful institutions on this planet, and they will never allow something like BTC to threaten their strangle hold on the global financial system.

I'd bet that BTC will be banned in the EU before the end of 2022, which will likely be so catastrophic for its value that the US wont even have to ban it. By 2024 BTC will be considered a funny meme and the reserve banks of the west will be releasing their own central bank digital currencies.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2013/03/Debt-chart2.jpg


The United States Government Debt is estimated to have reached 137.20 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2021.

source: Office of Management and Budget, The White House

[FultzNationRISE]

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2013/03/Debt-chart2.jpg



source: Office of Management and Budget, The White House


People simply have no clue what’s about to happen.

I’m out here willing to give people INVALUABLE perspective (Patreon.com/tofp) on what likely lies ahead for humanity over the next couple decades, and people just twiddlin their thumbs instead. It’s incredible.

[Cleverness]

I'm almost finished reading The Bitcoin Standard... we are so early... I think it's going to hit $100,000/btc and people are going to be surprised when it does. The deniers will turn into skeptics, skeptics into technocrats/investors/traders, and eventually into BTC hodlers/maxis.

[FultzNationRISE]

I'm almost finished reading The Bitcoin Standard... we are so early... I think it's going to hit $100,000/btc and people are going to be surprised when it does. The deniers will turn into skeptics, skeptics into technocrats/investors/traders, and eventually into BTC hodlers/maxis.

If you can spare a few bucks to widen your perspective, join me for a conversation here (Patreon.com/tofp).

[SATAN]

Seems like WEF shill Rishi Sunak has been campaigning hard in the UK. Been seeing his smiling mug alot on tv.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyWhjfRMwyI

Guy claims to be pro Bitcoin and crypto yet he pushes for central bank digital currencies. Wouldn't trust him at all.

Edit: https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2022/07/24/bitcoin-is-knocking-on-10-downing-street/?sh=59bdac03247c

[SATAN]

Manny, come out of hiding and tell us what's up with his wife.

[Nanners]

I'm almost finished reading The Bitcoin Standard... we are so early... I think it's going to hit $100,000/btc and people are going to be surprised when it does. The deniers will turn into skeptics, skeptics into technocrats/investors/traders, and eventually into BTC hodlers/maxis.

The only reason I deny bitcoin is the fact that it is not controlled by a reserve bank. Ultimately it doesnt matter how genius or useful BTC is, as long as we live in a world where 98% of global governments are HEAVILY influenced or outright controlled by central banks linked to the BIS, bitcoin will never be allowed to flourish... especially once the central bankers start to release their new central bank digital currencies.

I suppose its possible that bitcoin and currencies like it replace the central banks, but personally I think they would rather nuke this planet into oblivion rather than give up their stranglehold over the global economy.

[FultzNationRISE]

Anyways, short term is anyone's guess, all assets are down including gold, silver, real estate, stocks, crypto... as people sell shit because they're fearful of lower interest rates... it's just irrational fear all around right now. People are fleeing to dollars which are devaluing at a record pace, lol.

ON TOP OF THE FEAR OF YOUR TYPICAL PERSON...

The precious metals markets are manipulated by the big banks.

Crypto is manipulated by whales.

Everyone is retarded.

There's no telling what happens, all assets will probably continue to depreciate in the short term.

But as I said... long term? Everything wins against paper currency. If you're retiring in a year or 5 years or however the **** long is anyone's guess, you may want to move into dollars. If you're not retiring for decades to come, you would be stupid to give up your assets unless you think you're smart enough to out time the market.

I don't know how anyone could seriously believe that the dollar's days are not numbered.


What about owning nothing and being happy?

[SATAN]

......

[Pitbull]

Invest in Ethereum

[SATAN]

cbdcs are being trialed here next year. They are using a platform based on Ethereum.

[SATAN]

......

[SaltyMeatballs]

It's gonna go down even more before it goes up again. This whole year has been shit for stocks and crypto. Had a friend lose almost 20k this year

[tontoz]

Tax loss selling will be an issue the next few weeks. Might not be a bad idea to buy near Xmas.

I tried to get in briefly this year but bailed at break even. Just a small play which I might try again. I don't understand it well enough to make a big bet.

[FultzNationRISE]

Tax loss selling will be an issue the next few weeks. Might not be a bad idea to buy near Xmas.

I tried to get in briefly this year but bailed at break even. Just a small play which I might try again. I don't understand it well enough to make a big bet.


Lets talk. (Patreon.com/tofp)