Has Curry surpassed Kobe on the all-time list?

[1987_Lakers]

??

[Johnny32]

probably not but i have kobe higher than most. 6th/7th with duncan depending on the day.

[pejavelin]

No way. Kobe has 5 rings 2fmvp 2 of them with a cast similar to this warriors. Plus kobe has a lot more 40,50 pt games than anybody

[Mr. Jabbar]

lol

[tpols]

OP... tonight is your L. We all lose from time to time. Accept it when its your turn my dear friend.

[Nilocon165]

OP... tonight is your L. We all lose from time to time. Accept it when its your turn my dear friend.
Everyone’s happy for Curry though

[John8204]

No...he's still at 20K points what this did was basically make it so Giannis and Durant will never move past him. He needs 5/6 to really make the top ten in my eyes...and frankly with the 2nd lineup (Looney(26), Poole(22), Wiggins(27), Wiseman(21), Kominga(19)) This team really was a year early.

[SouBeachTalents]

I know people try to downplay longevity due to LeBron, but I think it's important in discussions like this, and for as close as the two of them are in several accolades, Kobe has a whopping 15-8 All-NBA advantage over Curry, which counts for something. Plus I'm just not that high on Curry's two titles with Durant. I think they absolutely could've won without him those years, but imo those titles inflate Curry's resume. It's obviously debatable, but I'm still giving Kobe the nod for now.

[1987_Lakers]

OP... tonight is your L. We all lose from time to time. Accept it when its your turn my dear friend.

You must be blind if you think I'm a Curry hater. I've routinely called him the most exciting player I've ever seen.

[tpols]

Everyone’s happy for Curry though

:oldlol:

No... they're not. Lebron stans hung on the FMVP thing like Kobe haters used to until they were proven dead wrong. Double time now.

[Bawkish]

You must be blind if you think I'm a Curry hater. I've routinely called him the most exciting player I've ever seen.

No, it's like you've just tattooed the the term "Kobe Hater" on your forehead then posted it on social media

[Phoenix]

No way. Kobe has 5 rings 2fmvp 2 of them with a cast similar to this warriors. Plus kobe has a lot more 40,50 pt games than anybody[

He has that over a number of players generally ranked above him.

[ShawkFactory]

No way. Kobe has 5 rings 2fmvp 2 of them with a cast similar to this warriors. Plus kobe has a lot more 40,50 pt games than anybody

Damian Lillard has more 40 and 50 point games than Tim Duncan.

[Phoenix]

I know people try to downplay longevity due to LeBron, but I think it's important in discussions like this, and for as close as the two of them are in several accolades, Kobe has a whopping 15-8 All-NBA advantage over Curry, which counts for something. Plus I'm just not that high on Curry's two titles with Durant. I think they absolutely could've won without him those years, but imo those titles inflate Curry's resume. It's obviously debatable, but I'm still giving Kobe the nod for now.

It occured to me a few minutes ago a scenario where the 2017 and 2018 Warriors don't have KD. Pretty confident saying they get to the finals( maybe the Rockets beat them in 2018?), but does 2016 result replicate? KD basically ensured a curb-stomp of everyone, but I'm wondering if the Warriors win in 2017 at least( albeit in a more competitive series).

[1987_Lakers]

:oldlol:

No... they're not. Lebron stans hung on the FMVP thing like Kobe haters used to until they were proven dead wrong. Double time now.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?479191-What-is-your-ultimate-All-Time-12-man-roster

Thank you.

[TheGoatest]

Notable individual accolades that Curry has over Kobe:

1 MVP
all time 3 point record

Notable individual accolades that Kobe has over Curry:

1 Finals MVP
7 All-NBA 1st team selections
9 All-defensive 1st team selections
13K more career regular season points
2K more career playoff points

Look, I think that Kobe is overrated as much as the next rational guy. But Curry is still clearly behind him.

[Objectivity]

Kobe>Curry>LeBron is the pecking order.

OP getting bodied in the poll btw :lol

[nayte]

It occured to me a few minutes ago a scenario where the 2017 and 2018 Warriors don't have KD. Pretty confident saying they get to the finals( maybe the Rockets beat them in 2018?), but does 2016 result replicate? KD basically ensured a curb-stomp of everyone, but I'm wondering if the Warriors win in 2017 at least( albeit in a more competitive series).
Yeah this is the thing for me too.hard to place with those kd years . That was a bit of a cheat mode time

[Manny98]

Curry has more MVPs and championships won as the best player so a argument can certainly be made

[aj1987]

Quite easily. Giannis is coming up as well. Also, Jokic. I feel like 12be is going to be 20 be in a couple of years.

[nayte]

Giannis definitely. If jokic can keep some healthy teammates for a long run then for sure I see a few rings his way

[plowking]

All things being equal, who would you take on your team? Serious question.

For me, it is clearly Curry.

Kobe has the advantage of narrative on his side, as Lakers in general are overrated. Magic for instance is talked about as if he was better than Bird, and the debate of Kobe still being close or better than Bron is around.

Kobe was a great, great player. I just don't think he is at the level of a Curry, Giannis or Bron as a basketball talent on court. He isn't as effective at winning a game all other things being equal. At this point, I'd rank Curry ahead of Kobe and Magic. Curry is the greatest PG ever.

[Axe]

Well, he does have quite multiple chips for the franchise that drafted him, two of them with kd which do have a bit of a contentitious value but regardless they're still rings. Unlike kobe who never had anything for the charlotte hornets

[nayte]

Do you ever stop .lol

[Axe]

Hey chill the fo, i'm not saying it's consensus lmfao. It's more of 'unpopular opinion'.

[nayte]

Unlike Kobe..lol
All good mate. Have at it .I get a laugh out of it all.

[Axe]

Unlike Kobe..lol
I mean if that's their basis only. For the very team he's drafted by or the like.

[HoopsNY]

??

Of course not. Kobe thrived in system basketball, which is what Steph thrives in. Steph is obviously the better offensive weapon, but Kobe was the better playmaker and a far superior defensive player.

[sdot_thadon]

Nope.

[nayte]

But op didn't make that the basis. Or anyone for that matter from what I can see.

[Axe]

Yep, not op but somebody else. Those who have problems with losing finals record.

[DMAVS41]

I know people try to downplay longevity due to LeBron, but I think it's important in discussions like this, and for as close as the two of them are in several accolades, Kobe has a whopping 15-8 All-NBA advantage over Curry, which counts for something. Plus I'm just not that high on Curry's two titles with Durant. I think they absolutely could've won without him those years, but imo those titles inflate Curry's resume. It's obviously debatable, but I'm still giving Kobe the nod for now.

The bold is fair...although 15, 16, making the 19 finals easily without him, and then winning again this year is pretty strong evidence that they have a great chance to win without him.

However, in a comparison to Kobe...you have to then say the same thing about Kobe's 3 titles with Shaq...that inflate his resume.

In terms of the all-time list...it think it is debatable for sure, but I personally think Curry has done enough to be ranked over Kobe. I think Curry was a better and more impactful player.

Now, built into that...is assuming Curry plays at a great level for at least 2 or 3 more years...if Curry just retired today...probably still go Kobe I guess...but if Curry plays 5 more years at an all-nba or all-star level...I think Curry is the right choice.

[nayte]

Yep, not op but somebody else. Those who have problems with losing finals record.

Your not wrong but if that's your default stance to this type of topic that's kinda on you for that.

[Axe]

Your not wrong but if that's your default stance to this type of topic that's kinda on you for that.
Probably because of some mind conditioning that some of the extreme posters have shown here. For example, lebron has so many losses in the finals. Therefore, he shouldn't be in the top 5 atg list. Or that jordan only had a perfect finals record, courtesy of playing in a weak, expansion era. Something like that.

[Shogon]

If you stopped Curry's career today and you could hit the rewind button on them both, I would take Curry.

Kobe was a bigger star by far, no doubt about that. But fame does not automatically mean you were a better player.


We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Curry didn't self cuck with Durant. Steph has been the best player on 4 championship teams. Kobe was the best player on 2. While that's about as surface level of an analysis as you could have, it's true. Kobe never won a title without the best frontcourt in the whole damn league. In fact, how many playoff series did he win without the best frontcourt in the league? lol.

Curry > Kobe as a basketball player and it's not particularly close. But as far as career accolades go? Kobe still wins that. And longevity matters, but I think the 2022 Finals did enough for Curry to slightly pass him.

[SouBeachTalents]

The bold is fair...although 15, 16, making the 19 finals easily without him, and then winning again this year is pretty strong evidence that they have a great chance to win without him.

However, in a comparison to Kobe...you have to then say the same thing about Kobe's 3 titles with Shaq...that inflate his resume.

In terms of the all-time list...it think it is debatable for sure, but I personally think Curry has done enough to be ranked over Kobe. I think Curry was a better and more impactful player.

Now, built into that...is assuming Curry plays at a great level for at least 2 or 3 more years...if Curry just retired today...probably still go Kobe I guess...but if Curry plays 5 more years at an all-nba or all-star level...I think Curry is the right choice.
No doubt, even if you just straight up remove the KD titles, Curry's resume has moved him into top 10 discussions regardless.

And sure, Kobe/Laker/casual idiots will forever bring up "5 rangz" in Kobe discussions, but imo I feel the majority of fans put the proper context around those rings, that while Kobe put up superstar production in 2 of them, Shaq was not only the best player on the team, but the best player in the world while having one of the most dominant peaks ever.

I just don't get that sense about Curry. KD's rings are nearly unanimously written off as cheap and insignificant, but I feel like Curry still gets full credit for both of them despite playing with the same perceived unfair talent advantage KD did.

[Im Still Ballin]

A very tough question. Probably Curry.

[DMAVS41]

No doubt, even if you just straight up remove the KD titles, Curry's resume has moved him into top 10 discussions regardless.

And sure, Kobe/Laker/casual idiots will forever bring up "5 rangz" in Kobe discussions, but imo I feel the majority of fans put the proper context around those rings, that while Kobe put up superstar production in 2 of them, Shaq was not only the best player on the team, but the best player in the world while having one of the most dominant peaks ever.

I just don't get that sense about Curry. KD's rings are nearly unanimously written off as cheap and insignificant, but I feel like Curry still gets full credit for both of them despite playing with the same perceived unfair talent advantage KD did.

It depends on who you are talking about with KD...because almost everyone I listen to in the media prior to this season / title for Curry...had Durant over him all-time. So I view it more as the opposite.

It has always been 15 didn't count (even though plenty of teams have faced similar finals competition)....like does the 07 Spurs title count? The 01 Lakers? The 99 Spurs? 86 Celtics? 02 Lakers?

Then, somehow, 16 was used against him as if he didn't beat Durant in a series after winning 73 games. Yes, he didn't play great in the finals, but the often over looked thing, beyond the Dray suspension...was that Harrison Barnes literally forgot how to play basketball in that series the last few games. Here is what Barnes did the last 3 games of that series...

28 minutes per game...averaged 5/3/1 on 16% shooting...he shot 5/32

Then it was Steph missed the playoffs...etc.

The real truth is that KD has benefitted hugely from those titles...KD has played with some of the most help in NBA history and his resume is basically Allen Iverson in terms of success...and he gets top 10 talk. It is absurd.

[SouBeachTalents]

It depends on who you are talking about with KD...because almost everyone I listen to in the media prior to this season / title for Curry...had Durant over him all-time. So I view it more as the opposite.

It has always been 15 didn't count (even though plenty of teams have faced similar finals competition)....like does the 07 Spurs title count? The 01 Lakers? The 99 Spurs? 86 Celtics? 02 Lakers?

Then, somehow, 16 was used against him as if he didn't beat Durant in a series after winning 73 games. Yes, he didn't play great in the finals, but the often over looked thing, beyond the Dray suspension...was that Harrison Barnes literally forgot how to play basketball in that series the last few games. Here is what Barnes did the last 3 games of that series...

28 minutes per game...averaged 5/3/1 on 16% shooting...he shot 5/32

Then it was Steph missed the playoffs...etc.

The real truth is that KD has benefitted hugely from those titles...KD has played with some of the most help in NBA history and his resume is basically Allen Iverson in terms of success...and he gets top 10 talk. It is absurd.
It's honestly a massive double standard when it comes to KD. You're right, he's more often than not ranked top 15 or so on most recent all time rankings, while at the same time, I can't speak for the media, but the majority of fans do not respect those titles at all. He's been getting absolutely roasted on RealGM since last night :lol

Even if you removed those titles from his resume, I'd still say KD is no worse than in the top 20 discussion, and arguable over guys like D-Rob & Barkley.

Interestingly enough, what you said about 2015 I always thought applied to the Raptors title. Even without KD & Klay missing a lot of the series, was that Warriors team seriously worse than the '99 Knicks, '07 Cavs, Jason Kidd Nets? I wouldn't say so.

[NBAGOAT]

longevity gives kobe an advantage. yes curry's prime is better and his impact is always underrated but really his all time year is 16. 15 and 17 are better than any year kobe has but there's some debate there. Kobe has multiple years you can argue for his peak that are very impactful 03, 06, 08 that can stand up to other years of curry's prime.

[DMAVS41]

It's honestly a massive double standard when it comes to KD. You're right, he's more often than not ranked top 15 or so on most recent all time rankings, while at the same time, I can't speak for the media, but the majority of fans do not respect those titles at all. He's been getting absolutely roasted on RealGM since last night :lol

Even if you removed those titles from his resume, I'd still say KD is no worse than in the top 20 discussion, and arguable over guys like D-Rob & Barkley.

Interestingly enough, what you said about 2015 I always thought applied to the Raptors title. Even without KD & Klay missing a lot of the series, was that Warriors team seriously worse than the '99 Knicks, '07 Cavs, Jason Kidd Nets? I wouldn't say so.

Exactly.

I made the same argument at the time. People are so inconsistent on these things and tried to say the Raptors ring was lucky because KD / Klay...while completely ignoring how other rings were won.

[DMAVS41]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTxTNCfWYAcEWAZ?format=jpg&name=medium

[ImKobe]

If you stopped Curry's career today and you could hit the rewind button on them both, I would take Curry.

Kobe was a bigger star by far, no doubt about that. But fame does not automatically mean you were a better player.


We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Curry didn't self cuck with Durant. Steph has been the best player on 4 championship teams. Kobe was the best player on 2. While that's about as surface level of an analysis as you could have, it's true. Kobe never won a title without the best frontcourt in the whole damn league. In fact, how many playoff series did he win without the best frontcourt in the league? lol.

Curry > Kobe as a basketball player and it's not particularly close. But as far as career accolades go? Kobe still wins that. And longevity matters, but I think the 2022 Finals did enough for Curry to slightly pass him.

Nah. Curry might be better offensively and I'm willing to entertain that argument but KB was an ELITE defender and Steph's numbers aren't better than KB's in the POs despite playing in an era where it should favor his production more.

We might not be having this discussion without KD at all because Cavs could have beat GS in 2017 and Rockets could have beat them if Durant never went there in 2018 as well and I doubt they would have been able to build this much for the future if they never had the KD S&T.

[ImKobe]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTxTNCfWYAcEWAZ?format=jpg&name=medium

Warriors are also 9 - 3 (75%) Without Steph in the POs if you look at '16 and '18.

[NBAGOAT]

Nah. Curry might be better offensively and I'm willing to entertain that argument but KB was an ELITE defender and Steph's numbers aren't better than KB's in the POs despite playing in an era where it should favor his production more.

We might not be having this discussion without KD at all because Cavs could have beat GS in 2017 and Rockets could have beat them if Durant never went there in 2018 as well and I doubt they would have been able to build this much for the future if they never had the KD S&T.

curry's better offensively and kobe's best years arent his best defensive years. Ofc you can never use raw numbers to rate curry and his postseason numbers are fine. his efficiency doesnt drop off that much.

[DMAVS41]

Nah. Curry might be better offensively and I'm willing to entertain that argument but KB was an ELITE defender and Steph's numbers aren't better than KB's in the POs despite playing in an era where it should favor his production more.

We might not be having this discussion without KD at all because Cavs could have beat GS in 2017 and Rockets could have beat them if Durant never went there in 2018 as well and I doubt they would have been able to build this much for the future if they never had the KD S&T.

Disagree a little about the defense...Kobe was better, but his impact defensively is often quite over stated.

Also, as for the numbers in the playoffs...ignoring the first couple years for Kobe

Kobe - 27/5/5 54% TS

Curry - 27/5/6 61% TS

The Curry gravity impact combined with a huge difference in efficiency makes it pretty clear to me that Curry is a more impactful offensive player in the playoffs.

[1987_Lakers]

Warriors are also 9 - 3 (75%) Without Steph in the POs if you look at '16 and '18.

Lakers were 25-7 without Kobe from 2000-2002, the 3 peat.

[DMAVS41]

Warriors are also 9 - 3 (75%) Without Steph in the POs if you look at '16 and '18.

The leader of that stat, by definition, is going to have a help and luck on his side. For example, Curry missing the playoffs the last couple years actually works in his favor.

Regardless...it is just yet another data point showing that Curry's impact is right there with some of the best ever...and, remember, some of the best ever had the fortune of playing on loaded teams against weaker competition as well.

[dankok8]

No he hasn't but he's close.

Anyways don't argue that Curry has 1 FMVP. That's dumb. Out of 6 NBA Finals he's been anywhere between very good and great in all of them except 2016. IMO was clear FMVP in 2015 and arguably in 2018 where he was better than KD in 3 games.

[ImKobe]

Disagree a little about the defense...Kobe was better, but his impact defensively is often quite over stated.

Also, as for the numbers in the playoffs...ignoring the first couple years

Kobe - 27/5/5 54% TS

Curry - 27/5/6 61% TS

The Curry gravity impact combined with a huge difference in efficiency makes it pretty clear to me that Curry is a more impactful offensive player in the playoffs.

Again, you can't pretend like Steph could play his style of ball as efficiently in the early/mid-2000s, it wouldn't work, that's where KB's efficiency takes a hit as well as the spacing and pace was at an all-time low which resulted in him putting up lower numbers. KB had a 3-year run of 3 straight Finals and 2 titles averaging 30/6/6 on 57%TS and that's still in the 2000s with inferior spacing with multiple bigs clogging up the paint. KB had gravity too and played off ball a lot as well. KB's numbers are on par and he won more so Steph needs to get to KB's ring count before there's an argument IMO.

[1987_Lakers]

Again, you can't pretend like Steph could play his style of ball in the early/mid-2000s, it wouldn't work, that's where KB's efficiency takes a hit as well as the spacing and pace was at an all-time low which resulted in him putting up lower numbers. KB had a 3-year run of 3 straight Finals and 2 titles averaging 30/6/6 on 57%TS and that's still in the 2000s with inferior spacing with multiple bigs clogging up the paint. KB had gravity too and played off ball a lot as well. KB's numbers are on par and he won more so Steph needs to get to KB's ring count before there's an argument IMO.

You are just going by "what ifs", Bill Russell probably wouldn't dominate on the defensive end in this era like he did in the 60's, yet people don't hold that against him. He's still regarded as the GOAT defender and many have him as a top 5 player ever.

[DMAVS41]

Again, you can't pretend like Steph could play his style of ball as efficiently in the early/mid-2000s, it wouldn't work, that's where KB's efficiency takes a hit as well as the spacing and pace was at an all-time low which resulted in him putting up lower numbers. KB had a 3-year run of 3 straight Finals and 2 titles averaging 30/6/6 on 57%TS and that's still in the 2000s with inferior spacing with multiple bigs clogging up the paint. KB had gravity too and played off ball a lot as well. KB's numbers are on par and he won more so Steph needs to get to KB's ring count before there's an argument IMO.

I disagree with that...and lets not pretend like Kobe played his entire career in the tough defensive era. After the rules changes...Kobe was a 56% TS player for the rest of his career in the playoffs.

Ray Allen did 24/5/5 60% TS from 99 through 01 in the playoffs...while leading a team to the conference finals....and your take is the Steph couldn't produce what Ray Allen did?????

I also am not a big ring count guy without context...and even then it gets tricky for me.

Simply...I think Curry is a better basketball player than Kobe and helps a team win more...

The argument for Kobe is that it is relatively close in terms of who is the better player and that Kobe's longevity is better. Kobe's longevity is definitely better right now, but Kobe's longevity isn't on the Duncan level or something. He wasn't very good his first two years and then he was pretty much done at Steph's current age.

If Steph were to retire right now...maybe you give the edge to Kobe...but if Steph plays 5 more years or something at a high level...I think it is pretty clear...but that is just me.

[ImKobe]

Bill Russell wouldn't dominate on the defensive end in this era like he did in the 60's, yet people don't hold that against him. He's still regarded as the GOAT defender and many have him as a top 5 player ever.

Ok, so did Steph dominate his era as much as KB did his? I guess you could make an argument for it, though again KB has a better argument over TD or Shaq in the 2000s than Steph has over Lebron, though I do think there's an argument to be made that Steph will eventually go down as the best player in his era, and Lebron was a big part of that era so he would be the Shaq equivalent with his 4, I think Steph could get to 5-6 and then we could be having a more interesting conversation.

I want to see a little more from Steph as the #1 guy before I put him any higher, I think that's fair. Right now if you remove the KD and the Shaq years, KB and Steph both have 2 rings and 3 Finals to their names. KB's raw numbers are better for his stretch and the TS% numbers are only 3-4% apart if you look at '15, '16 & '22 Steph vs 08-10 KB as a measurement for who did better as the lead dog, and weighing in today's increase in TS% and offensive efficiency overall would tell me that KB was slightly better but that's not to shit on Steph's impact either. It's just really hard to compare the two with the difference in the two eras and their playing styles overall.

[ImKobe]

I disagree with that...and lets not pretend like Kobe played his entire career in the tough defensive era. After the rules changes...Kobe was a 56% TS player for the rest of his career in the playoffs.

I also am not a big ring count guy without context...and even then it gets tricky for me.

Simply...I think Curry is a better basketball player than Kobe and helps a team win more...

The argument for Kobe is that it is relatively close in terms of who is the better player and that Kobe's longevity is better. Kobe's longevity is definitely better right now, but Kobe's longevity isn't on the Duncan level or something. He wasn't very good his first two years and then he was pretty much done at Steph's current age.

If Steph were to retire right now...maybe you give the edge to Kobe...but if Steph plays 5 more years or something at a high level...I think it is pretty clear...but that is just me.

Of course. I can agree with that last point. I think Steph could end up being #2 all-time purely based on the accolades. He is in a much better position right now than Duncan was at the same age IMO and today's era + his playing style benefits his longevity more than any other ATG. I wouldn't be surprised if Steph was still a great player into his late 30s if you look at how Reggie was able to keep up his level of play and he wasn't the shooter that Steph is.

[DMAVS41]

Of course. I can agree with that last point. I think Steph could end up being #2 all-time purely based on the accolades. He is in a much better position right now than Duncan was at the same age IMO and today's era + his playing style benefits his longevity more than any other ATG. I wouldn't be surprised if Steph was still a great player into his late 30s if you look at how Reggie was able to keep up his level of play and he wasn't the shooter that Steph is.

I edited the above post to include some evidence...

Ray Allen did 24/5/5 60% TS from 99 through 01 in the playoffs...while leading a team to the conference finals....and your take is the Steph couldn't produce what Ray Allen did?????

[1987_Lakers]

Ok, so did Steph dominate his era as much as KB did his? I guess you could make an argument for it, though again KB has a better argument over TD or Shaq in the 2000s than Steph has over Lebron, though I do think there's an argument to be made that Steph will eventually go down as the best player in his era, and Lebron was a big part of that era so he would be the Shaq equivalent with his 4, I think Steph could get to 5-6 and then we could be having a more interesting conversation.

Yes. Kobe has a better argument (even though he isn't) over TD & Shaq in the 2000's because those players are not on LeBron's level. LeBron is a top 3 player ever at worse, Duncan and Shaq are often listed around 5-8 or something.

As far as peak play, Curry has Kobe beat. Kobe never dominated a Finals like Curry just did, his efficiency is on another level, he didn't revolutionize the game the way Curry did, he didn't open up his teammates for open shots the way Curry did with all the defensive attention he gets. Curry is basically the Shaq of perimeter players the way he opens things up for his teammates.

[HoopsNY]

You are just going by "what ifs", Bill Russell probably wouldn't dominate on the defensive end in this era like he did in the 60's, yet people don't hold that against him. He's still regarded as the GOAT defender and many have him as a top 5 player ever.

He's got a point though. One, he mentioned playoff records without Steph (albeit a small sample size), and you countered with regular season records without Kobe. Not exactly the same. And two, he mentioned his offensive output when the two eras are completely different.

Just look at Steph's TS% in 2013-2014 in the playoffs (57%), as opposed to it since then (61%). Now imagine years like 2000-2003. It doesn't mean he drops to Kobe's 55% TS%, which is what he shot basically from 2000-2004. But it does help put things into perspective in that the difference isn't what the data indicates.

I think people are giving Steph way too much credit here and not account for eras. Because if Kobe is in this era in his peak/prime, his PPG would likely be higher and so would his TS%.

[1987_Lakers]

Just look at Steph's TS% in 2013-2014 in the playoffs (57%), as opposed to it since then (61%). Now imagine years like 2000-2003. It doesn't mean he drops to Kobe's 55% TS%, which is what he shot basically from 2000-2004. But it does help put things into perspective in that the difference isn't what the data indicates.

I think people are giving Steph way too much credit here and not account for eras. Because if Kobe is in this era in his peak/prime, his PPG would likely be higher and so would his TS%.

You are not taking into consideration that the Warriors ran a completely different offense before Steve Kerr got there, Mark Jackson ran a stagnant offense, Kerr came in and maximized Curry's ability.

[ImKobe]

I edited the above post to include some evidence...

Ray Allen did 24/5/5 60% TS from 99 through 01 in the playoffs...while leading a team to the conference finals....and your take is the Steph couldn't produce what Ray Allen did?????

You're really only talking about Ray's 2001 run as that's 18 of the 26 games and the only time he made it out of the 1st round in that stretch. He was a monster as he shot ~48% from 3 in that Playoff run but the physicality and the rules are not as favorable towards Steph in the early 2000s, and we know that he's a different player when players are allowed to be physical with him. That's Ray's one great run so I don't think that proves that Steph could teleport into 2000 and have the same exact volume and scoring numbers when almost every great perimeter player was in the mid/low 50s in TS% in that era. KB, AI, Pierce etc all had much better efficiency numbers after the rule changes, it's not a coincidence.

[DMAVS41]

He's got a point though. One, he mentioned playoff records without Steph (albeit a small sample size), and you countered with regular season records without Kobe. Not exactly the same. And two, he mentioned his offensive output when the two eras are completely different.

Just look at Steph's TS% in 2013-2014 in the playoffs (57%), as opposed to it since then (61%). Now imagine years like 2000-2003. It doesn't mean he drops to Kobe's 55% TS%, which is what he shot basically from 2000-2004. But it does help put things into perspective in that the difference isn't what the data indicates.

I think people are giving Steph way too much credit here and not account for eras. Because if Kobe is in this era in his peak/prime, his PPG would likely be higher and so would his TS%.

Great point...clearly Steph couldn't produce like Ray Allen...

Ray Allen did 24/5/5 60% TS from 99 through 01 in the playoffs...while leading a team to the conference finals....and your take is the Steph couldn't produce what Ray Allen did?????

[DMAVS41]

You're really only talking about Ray's 2001 run as that's 18 of the 26 games and the only time he made it out of the 1st round in that stretch. He was a monster as he shot ~48% from 3 in that Playoff run but the physicality and the rules are not as favorable towards Steph in the early 2000s, and we know that he's a different player when players are allowed to be physical with him. That's Ray's one great run so I don't think that proves that Steph could teleport into 2000 and have the same exact volume and scoring numbers when almost every great perimeter player was in the mid/low 50s in TS% in that era. KB, AI, Pierce etc all had much better efficiency numbers after the rule changes, it's not a coincidence.

Oh, we all know that era was tougher to score...I'm not saying it wasn't...

But this notion that Steph wouldn't be capable of what Ray Allen was doing back then doesn't hold up. He's just that good...and this is what people do when a guy like Steph wins or does things that challenge their views...they come up with rationalizations as to why he's doing this stuff.

Again...after the rules changed...Kobe was a 56% TS player in the playoffs...that is still a huge gap...

And it isn't only one year for Ray...

99 - 63% TS
00 - 55% TS
01 - 61% TS
05 - 60% TS

If we are going to play the "what if" game...the very least one should grant is that he'd at least be as efficient as Ray Allen...

[red1]

kobe is still better. pretty clear too IMO.

[SouBeachTalents]

Oh, we all know that era was tougher to score...I'm not saying it wasn't...

But this notion that Steph wouldn't be capable of what Ray Allen was doing back then doesn't hold up. He's just that good...and this is what people do when a guy like Steph wins or does things that challenge their views...they come up with rationalizations as to why he's doing this stuff.

Again...after the rules changed...Kobe was a 56% TS player in the playoffs...that is still a huge gap...

And it isn't only one year for Ray...

99 - 63% TS
00 - 55% TS
01 - 61% TS
05 - 60% TS

If we are going to play the "what if" game...the very least one should grant is that he'd at least be as efficient as Ray Allen...
Don't forget Reggie averaged 24 ppg on 59%TS from 99-02.

[DMAVS41]

Don't forget Reggie averaged 24 ppg on 59%TS from 99-02.

This is one of those arguments that sounds good on paper and would apply to most players, but the elite of the elite shooters...just aren't impacted as much.

Take Ray...

From 99 through 04 in the regular season...58% TS

From 05 through 10....58.4% TS

There is no reason to believe that Curry's efficiency just falls off a cliff. Yes, the rules were more difficult...but they didn't impact all players the same way...and it was still basketball.

[HoopsNY]

You are not taking into consideration that the Warriors ran a completely different offense before Steve Kerr got there, Mark Jackson ran a stagnant offense, Kerr came in and maximized Curry's ability.

Good counter. You're not wrong.

[HoopsNY]

This is one of those arguments that sounds good on paper and would apply to most players, but the elite of the elite shooters...just aren't impacted as much.

Take Ray...

From 99 through 04 in the regular season...58% TS

From 05 through 10....58.4% TS

There is no reason to believe that Curry's efficiency just falls off a cliff. Yes, the rules were more difficult...but they didn't impact all players the same way...and it was still basketball.

I don't believe his efficiency falls off a cliff, but I do think a consistent 57-58% TS% over a long period of time is more realistic. My point is, the difference then becomes minimal and accounted for.

If Kobe's peak/prime years come in this era, his TS% wouldn't be 55%, it would likely be higher, maybe 57-58%, which again, makes the difference minimal, given his other skillsets.

[DMAVS41]

I don't believe his efficiency falls off a cliff, but I do think a consistent 57-58% TS% over a long period of time is more realistic. My point is, the difference then becomes minimal and accounted for.

If Kobe's peak/prime years come in this era, his TS% wouldn't be 55%, it would likely be higher, maybe 57-58%, which again, makes the difference minimal, given his other skillsets.

I think 59% is probably the floor. I mean...Curry is a regular season 62.4% TS and 60.8% TS in the playoffs...hard to envision him averaging lower than 59%...but that is just me.

Given other skillsets...that is a good argument if I agreed, but I think Curry's other skillset (the gravity) of getting doubled / trapped off ball and dismantling a defense running around screens with everyone freaking out if he gets an inch...produces a greater impact in terms of winning than Kobe's skills.

There is noise in on / off...but ignoring Kobe's first couple years and his last few years...and Curry's first two

Kobe's teams with him on court +5.5...Kobe's teams with him off court -.7

Curry's teams with him on court +11...Curry's teams with him off court -2.5

Both fantastic...but Curry's impact is enormous. Again, there is noise and circumstances, but damn...that is crazy

[Carbine]

Kobe's resume is better currently and he was a better overall player.

#8 Kobe specifcally. I'd take Steph over #24

[LeGoat4Life]

probably not but i have kobe higher than most. 6th/7th with duncan depending on the day.

I have him 6-8th (Kobe Shaq and Duncan)

Wouldn't disagree too much with any order

[Im Still Ballin]

Peja put up 21.3 PPG on 59.9% TS over four seasons in the early 2000s: '00 to '04.

In his best season, 2003-2004, he put up 24.2 PPG on 62.4% TS. He was getting MVP buzz before C-Webb returned from injury and derailed the Kings' season.

It makes me wonder when I see the stats guys like Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and Peja did during the late '90s/early '00s. Just how much would the supposed era affect Steph?

Would it even change much? Hard to say. Depends on several factors.

[fsvr54]

Skill wise, he will never surpass Kobe, and that's what matters. Titles are a team accomplishment.

[Shooter]

It will be hard to keep Curry out of the top ten now that he won his 4th ring and Final MVP to go along with all the other amazing accolades he's collected over the years. From 2019 to 2022 KD has been out of the 1st round once (Big Yikes) with zero Finals trips; meanwhile Curry is on his way to another Finals trip without KD.

○ Kobe won 1 MVP in 20 years (bottom tier for top 15-20 players)
○ Curry has won 2 MVPs in fewer years

Add in Curry's Finals MVP for 2022 and is Curry now into the top 10 pushing Kobe closer to top 15?

[WhiteKyrie]

No. But another ring with Finals MVP and yes I’d say he surpassed Kobe, tbh. If he gets another MVP then easily.

[2ball]

Yes he has passed Kobe. Curry has proved me wrong

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sitting at the table with Hakeem and Kobe. Around top 10 if not already there.

But...wouldn't argue with anyone who has Curry above them two. His impact is ridiculous.

[WhiteKyrie]

Sitting at the table with Hakeem and Kobe. Around top 10 if not already there.

But...wouldn't argue with anyone who has Curry above them two. His impact is ridiculous.

Including historical players in the non modern game / NBA pre 1980? And even more so 1984 ish. He’s getting close

NBA Mount Rushmore:
1) Mike
2) LeBron
3) Magic
4) Bird

5) Kareem
6) Russell
7) Shaq
8) Kobe
9) Hakeem
10) Duncan

11) Wilt
12) Steph
13) KD
14) Giannis
15) West

IMO …

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Including historical players in the non modern game / NBA pre 1980? And even more so 1984 ish. He’s getting close

NBA Mount Rushmore:
1) Mike
2) LeBron
3) Magic
4) Bird

5) Kareem
6) Russell
7) Shaq
8) Kobe
9) Hakeem
10) Duncan

11) Wilt
12) Steph
13) KD
14) Giannis

IMO …

Not as big on KD like you are, and have Kareem a little higher.

That's a pretty decent list though. Lot of these names are interchangeable and you cant go wrong either way.

Gonna be interesting to see what Steph accomplishes from here on out. With this FMVP, he pimp slapped all of the haters.

[Carbine]

Any list without Kareem on the Mount Rushmore is not valid.

Anything you could ever want from a career he has it. Individual dominance, team accomplishments, longevity.

He has to be in the top tier of players ever.

[SouBeachTalents]

Any list without Kareem on the Mount Rushmore is not valid.

Anything you could ever want from a career he has it. Individual dominance, team accomplishments, longevity.

He has to be in the top tier of players ever.
Just based strictly off their body of work, factoring in all of the things you said, Jordan, LeBron & Kareem would have to make up 3 of the spots on an NBA Mount Rushmore. The last one would be more open to interpretation, personally, I'd probably put Wilt.

[WhiteKyrie]

Any list without Kareem on the Mount Rushmore is not valid.

Anything you could ever want from a career he has it. Individual dominance, team accomplishments, longevity.

He has to be in the top tier of players ever.

Disagree.

I think he’s a little overrated. I don’t think he’s a significantly better player than Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem, Shaquille O’Neal or even Tim Duncan at the center position.

I think he was gift wrapped the majority of his titles playing alongside a top 20 guy with Oscar Robertson, but most especially an actual Mount Rushmore guy who cultivated the winning culture of the Lakers, Magic Johnson.

Up until that point he was a malcontent center, who obviously could score, I wouldn’t say was a fantastic defender, an absolute piss poor leader and chemistry guy, that nobody liked. Whether it was teammates or reporters or whoever. A wannabe intellectual who probably loves the smell of his own farts. Kareem is both simultaneously a little overrated, but definitely as unlikable as they come.

None of these other guys won MVP and didn’t make the playoffs.

Kareem did that though.

Anyone of these other guys would be eviscerated for that. I talk shit about Dirk, and he lost in the first round. At least he made the playoffs. Kareem needed a top 20 and top 4 guy to win all his rings. Think about that. Only other guy on the list who needed help like that to win multiple rings is Shaq, and KD.

[FilmyCogTurner]

What's crazy is this is actually a discussion now.

I feel like respect and reputation matter and Kobe also has the stats and hardware to back it up but then again he did not open up the court for his teammates like Curry does. The gravity of that man is insane. The Warriors are so good at making teams pay for their mistakes, big and small.

Kobe still gets the nod from me and I do feel like this years Warriors were really stacked. Sure, light at the five position but heavy everywhere else.

[1987_Lakers]

Including historical players in the non modern game / NBA pre 1980? And even more so 1984 ish. He’s getting close

NBA Mount Rushmore:
1) Mike
2) LeBron
3) Magic
4) Bird

5) Kareem
6) Russell
7) Shaq
8) Kobe
9) Hakeem
10) Duncan

11) Wilt
12) Steph
13) KD
14) Giannis
15) West

IMO …

I don't think I've ever seen any serious person rank Magic & Bird ahead of Kareem, lol.

[WhiteKyrie]

I don't think I've ever seen any serious person rank Magic & Bird ahead of Kareem, lol.
I do. Better basketball players. Cultivated winning franchises. Kareem never did that

[1987_Lakers]

I do. Better basketball players. Cultivated winning franchises. Kareem never did that
Better basketball players? I really doubt it, Kareem impacted the defensive end Magic & Bird could only dream of.

[WhiteKyrie]

Better basketball players? I really doubt it, Kareem impacted the defensive end Magic & Bird could only dream of.

No, not significantly.

He wasn’t a defender like Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan or KG or even Anthony Davis.

He was rather slow and plodding, he couldn’t switch, he could contest shots and be a shot blocker because of his height, but that alone doesn’t make a quality defender and actually Bird is an underrated defender. Larry was a better defender for his position and on the floor, than magic ever was. Magic couldn’t guard anything.

But Magic’s leader ship, his facilitating ability, and versatility is what made the Lakers winners and dragged an aging malcontent cranky Kareem who was just playing to play and score, to winning championships. Kareem didn’t do that anywhere. He had piss poor character.

Like I said, he won MVP and didn’t even make the playoffs that season. Anyone of these other guys do something like that, and they would be eviscerated and torn to shreds. Because that’s not really an MVP. You just put up numbers well.

[1987_Lakers]

No, not significantly.

He wasn’t a defender like Hakeem, Wikt, Russell, Duncan or KG or even Anthony Davis.

He was rather slow and plodding, he couldn’t switch, he could contest shots and be a shot blocker because of his height, but that alone doesn’t make a quality defender and actually Bird is an underrated defender. Larry was a better defender for his position and on the floor, than magic ever was. Magic couldn’t guard anything.

But Magic’s leader ship, his facilitating ability, and versatility is what made the Lakers winners and dragged an aging malcontent cranky Kareem who was just playing to play and score, to winning championships. Kareem didn’t do that anywhere. He had piss poor character.

Like I said, he won MVP and didn’t even make the playoffs that season. Anyone of these other guys do something like that, and they would be eviscerated and torn to shreds. Because that’s not really an MVP. You just put up numbers well.

Yes, significantly.

I agree he wasn't as good on defense as Russell, Hakeem, Duncan, KG etc

But at his defensive peak he was making All-Defensive First teams and leading the NBA in blocks, he was a top tier rim protector, which means in that era he was basically at least a top 3 defensive player in the NBA in terms of defensive impact, maybe the best in some years. Magic & Bird could only dream of reaching that level on defense.

Who cares if he didn't switch, no big man in that era was switching. LOL.

[WhiteKyrie]

Magic and Bird saved basketball.

Jordan elevated it to unseen heights at it’s apex of popularity. The greatest to ever lace them up and step on the court.

LeBron met and exceeded an unprecedented set of circumstances and hype coming directly out of HS, after being the best HS ball player ever. And has been in the league for two decades as either it’s best player or hovering around it still to this day in his mid 30s.

Those are the best basketball players of all time. And the Mt Rushmore.

Each one of those guys could play multiple positions. Could handle the ball. Didn’t need to be spoon fed by someone else, and regardless of the levels of success, all were superior leaders that led to winning compared to Kareem.

[1987_Lakers]

Magic and Bird saved basketball.

Jordan elevated it to unseen heights at it’s apex of popularity.

LeBron met and exceeded an unprecedented set of circumstances and hype coming directly out of HS, after being the best HS ball player ever.

Those are the best basketball players of all time. And the Mt Rushmore.

Each one of those guys could play multiple positions. Could handle the ball. Didn’t need to be spoon fed by someone else, and regardless of the levels of success, all were superior leaders that led to winning compared to Kareem.

Well if you are talking about importance to the game that is different, Magic & Bird deserve to be there.

But not as straight up basketball players. Kareem > Magic & Bird.

[PeroAntic]

Curry did something Kobe never could: turn that bum Wiggins into a champion. For that only he should be top 10 ever.

and lets face it he changed the game more than Kobe. Curry has innovation in the game and team culture cultivation as two things that put him above Kobe.

[SATAN]

and lets face it he changed the game more than Kobe.

For better or worse?

[1987_Lakers]

Good counter. You're not wrong.

Yea, the Mark Jackson offense was bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3sC6-f3q9E

[HoopsNY]

Steph won in 2015 with his opponent's #2 and #3 out, and won another 2 championships with KD joining his 73 win team. You could argue and say Kobe's 2002 title was fixed by the league, and that would mean his untainted championships are 4, with 6 trips to the finals. Compare that to Steph's unquestionable 1 ring and 1 FMVP? In addition, not being half the defensive player Kobe was?

And miss me with the defensive attention argument as if Kobe never faced massive defensive attention. Sure, he wasn't as efficient or anywhere near the shooter Steph is. But if he's in this era, he's probably putting up a 57-58% TS%, which isn't lightyears behind Steph's 62%. And it certainly doesn't make up for the difference in defense and playmaking. People forget how good of a playmaker Kobe was from 1999-2003.

[FKAri]

No and I doubt Curry catches him.

[Axe]

Steph won in 2015 with his opponent's #2 and #3 out, and won another 2 championships with KD joining his 73 win team. You could argue and say Kobe's 2001 title was fixed by the league, and that would mean his untainted championships are 4, with 6 trips to the finals. Compare that to Steph's unquestionable 1 ring and 1 FMVP? In addition, not being half the defensive player Kobe was?

And miss me with the defensive attention argument as if Kobe never faced massive defensive attention. Sure, he wasn't as efficient or anywhere near the shooter Steph is. But if he's in this era, he's probably putting up a 57-58% TS%, which isn't lightyears behind Steph's 62%. And it certainly doesn't make up for the difference in defense and playmaking. People forget how good of a playmaker Kobe was from 1999-2003.
Err, you mean the 2002 title?

[HoopsNY]

Err, you mean the 2002 title?

Yes, fixed it.

[tpols]

Steph won in 2015 with his opponent's #2 and #3 out, and won another 2 championships with KD joining his 73 win team. You could argue and say Kobe's 2002 title was fixed by the league, and that would mean his untainted championships are 4, with 6 trips to the finals. Compare that to Steph's unquestionable 1 ring and 1 FMVP? In addition, not being half the defensive player Kobe was?

And miss me with the defensive attention argument as if Kobe never faced massive defensive attention. Sure, he wasn't as efficient or anywhere near the shooter Steph is. But if he's in this era, he's probably putting up a 57-58% TS%, which isn't lightyears behind Steph's 62%. And it certainly doesn't make up for the difference in defense and playmaking. People forget how good of a playmaker Kobe was from 1999-2003.

I'm one of the biggest Kobe fans on this site and I simply can't agree with you about the playmaking. Curry has led multiple #1 ranked offenses. Kobe never has although he did lead #2 and #4 offenses in 2008 and 2009 which is amazing, but playmaking? Curry is just as good a passer as Kobe. They're both elite. Where did you get this notion Curry can't pass? A gif out of 1 bad series? Kobes had some really bad series too. Everybody has.

The only advantage Kobe has is defense but even that disparity isn't huge. Kobe in his later prime years often took defense off. He lived off reputation for a long time. To be honest... I think current 34 year old curry gave way more defensive effort than older kobe. 34 year old Kobe was 2014 Kobe and hadn't played defense in years. While Curry was hustling like crazy and the stats show he shut down Boston's players in 1v1 situations in this years Finals.

[red1]

kobe would make it very hard for curry to score and would score on him at will


they wouldnt even need to double curry the same way if the 09 or 10 lakers were playing the warriors because that frontcourt of odom and gasol would feast on the warriors and one of kobe and ariza or artest would just focus on running around guarding curry




kobe is better.

[HoopsNY]

I'm one of the biggest Kobe fans on this site and I simply can't agree with you about the playmaking. Curry has led multiple #1 ranked offenses. Kobe never has although he did lead #2 and #4 offenses in 2008 and 2009 which is amazing, but playmaking? Curry is just as good a passer as Kobe. They're both elite. Where did you get this notion Curry can't pass? A gif out of 1 bad series? Kobes had some really bad series too. Everybody has.

2016 is the only year GS was #1 in ORTG without KD, so that's a bit of a hinge. I agree with the idea that Curry is just as good of a passer as Kobe, but you know as well as I do that Kobe was the only playmaker on those early 2000s Lakers and he was an excellent playmaker, better than Steph.

I didn't say Curry can't pass. Passing is one thing, playmaking is another. Russell Westbrook was a great passer, but I wouldn't call him a great playmaker. Chris Paul was/is both.

Kobe was a better playmaker than Curry, though they're similar in passing.


The only advantage Kobe has is defense but even that disparity isn't huge. Kobe in his later prime years often took defense off. He lived off reputation for a long time. To be honest... I think current 34 year old curry gave way more defensive effort than older kobe. 34 year old Kobe was 2014 Kobe and hadn't played defense in years. While Curry was hustling like crazy and the stats show he shut down Boston's play s rd in 1v1 situations in this years Finals.

The point is you can't eliminate Kobe's on the ball defense from the equation, which is huge. Another thing is that Kobe was a better leader. Everyone knows it, Steph might be the best shooter, scorer, and player on this team, but Draymond was and is the leader of this team.

It's kinda like Kawhi in 2019, yea he's the best player, but Kyle Lowry was that team's leader.

You can't eliminate playmaking (not passing), defense, and leadership from the equation. And that matters when guys don't show up, need motivation, or the talent is as immense as it has been with GS this year.

[PeroAntic]

For better or worse?

Doesn't matter, thats subjective anyway.

Sure Kobe is a better one on one player and his skill is sublime, but Curry just dictates not only an entire gameplan for both teams, but also is a catalyst for an entire basketball culture & identity which turns bums into champions.

[Big164]

100%

Kobe did not add anything new to the game that Michael hadnt already mastered.

Steph literally changed the way people play the sport. :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

You can't eliminate playmaking (not passing), defense, and leadership from the equation.


What's your definition of play making? Curry "play makes" at a level never seen before. Always makes the right pass. Facilitates GOAT offenses with GOAT assist ranks... what is your definition of play making to say Kobe is better?

Leadership? Curry has GOAT leadership intangibles. Kobe in his younger years was extremely selfish and eventually developed into a great leader. He has no advantage in leadership over Curry for their careers.

Defense I will concede but again Kobe only played elite defense when he was young and in short spurts when he was old. 34 year old Kobe couldnt guard a traffic cone and led a lottery team. 34 year old Curry gave intense effort with the stats showing he did very well in man on man 1v1 situations leading a title team.

What about this do you dispute?

[juju151111]

Yea, the Mark Jackson offense was bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3sC6-f3q9E
Steph was also still efficient in the bad offense thats the funny part. This wasn't prime steph either.

[Cold soul]

Nope Kobe is the better all around player than Steph especially if you factor in defense Curry has never even made a defensive team honor in his entire career. This was first postseason Curry showed up and lead as #1 option and was the best player on the floor in the Finals. I know this is hypothetical but if Middleton doesn’t get injured I see the Bucks winning it all and beating the Warriors.

[Cold soul]

MVP

Stephen Curry-2
Kobe Bryant-1

Finals MVP

Kobe Bryant-2
Stephen Curry-1

All NBA 1st team
Kobe Bryant-11
Stephen Curry-4

NBA all defensive teams

Kobe Bryant-12(9 1st and 3 2nd)
Stephen Curry-0

Leaders in scoring

Kobe Bryant and Stephen Curry-2

All Star appearances

Kobe Bryant-18
Stephen Curry-8


Steph has a ways to go to catch Kobe accomplishments let’s see how his career finishes up.

[1987_Lakers]

Yea, the All-NBA First team edge Kobe has over Curry is pretty remarkable, although I don't hold much value with Kobe's 12 All-defensive selections considering he made that team in years he shouldn't have.

Curry was kind of a late bloomer, didn't start dominating this league until he was 26/27 years old, while guys like Kobe, LeBron, Kareem, Durant etc. were superstars by the time they were in their early 20's.

[Cold soul]

Yea, the All-NBA First team edge Kobe has over Curry is pretty remarkable, although I don't hold much value with Kobe's 12 All-defensive selections considering he made that team in years he shouldn't have.

Curry was kind of a late bloomer, didn't start dominating this league until he was 26/27 years old, while guys like Kobe, LeBron, Kareem, Durant etc. were superstars by the time they were in their early 20's.

Who do you rank higher between the two Curry and Kobe.

[1987_Lakers]

Who do you rank higher between the two Curry and Kobe.

Even though I feel Curry is the more transcendent player, at the moment, if I was forced to pick I would go Kobe just because of his edge in longevity.

[Cold soul]

Even though I feel Curry is the more transcendent player, at the moment, if I was forced to pick I would go Kobe just because of his edge in longevity.

I feel 10-20 years from now when we look back at this era of basketball the best players from 2010’s to present will be in order 1) Lebron 2) Giannis 3) Curry. I think Giannis has top 10 potential just needs to win a few more rings and MVP’s.

[GOBB]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.

[Axe]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.
You mean the holy pacifier that he chews in the name of jesus christ. :oldlol:

[2much_knowledge]

You must be blind if you think I'm a Curry hater. I've routinely called him the most exciting player I've ever seen.

Exciting?? Ever heard of Vince Carter? Lol

[2much_knowledge]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.

Its a wrap. Spot on

[Cold soul]

If I was drafting a team from scratch and had #1 pick I would pick Kobe over Curry.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Passed Kobe?

BWAWAWAHAHAHAHA!

[Cold soul]

Passed Kobe?

BWAWAWAHAHAHAHA!

Who do you have between Kobe and Magic?

[red1]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.

:oldlol:

[Carbine]

GOBB is way off. That argument is elementary.

The older he gets, the more basic his opinions become. That's not how this should work Voice of Reason...

[tpols]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.

He was better at shooting the basketball in the hoop and the attention he garnered afforded his teammates the same advantage. And I say that as a big kobe fan.

[HoopsNY]

What's your definition of play making? Curry "play makes" at a level never seen before. Always makes the right pass. Facilitates GOAT offenses with GOAT assist ranks... what is your definition of play making to say Kobe is better?

Leadership? Curry has GOAT leadership intangibles. Kobe in his younger years was extremely selfish and eventually developed into a great leader. He has no advantage in leadership over Curry for their careers.

Defense I will concede but again Kobe only played elite defense when he was young and in short spurts when he was old. 34 year old Kobe couldnt guard a traffic cone and led a lottery team. 34 year old Curry gave intense effort with the stats showing he did very well in man on man 1v1 situations leading a title team.

What about this do you dispute?

Playmaking is more than just passing. It's setting up plays, finding the open man, creating shots for teammates, etc. GS being the leader in assists is more of a testimony to their ball movement and Draymond than it is to Steph.

Kobe has an argument over Steph for leadership when Steph was never THE leader of this team. It was always Draymond. Kobe had his issues earlier on, but he can definitively say his leadership after Shaq left trumps Steph's at any point of his career.

[Cold soul]

Playmaking is more than just passing. It's setting up plays, finding the open man, creating shots for teammates, etc. GS being the leader in assists is more of a testimony to their ball movement and Draymond than it is to Steph.

Kobe has an argument over Steph for leadership when Steph was never THE leader of this team. It was always Draymond. Kobe had his issues earlier on, but he can definitively say his leadership after Shaq left trumps Steph's at any point of his career.

Well said! :applause: Kobe became a really good leader later in his career even Phil Jackson said this and gave Kobe ton of credit for developing more as a leader at his later years. That’s another huge advantage MJ had over Kobe even early MJ was a natural leader with great leadership skills that drove his teammates.

[Baller789]

I would argue that one player hoarding double digit assists or close to is actually detrimental to the overall ball movement and team assists.

[plowking]

Curry is getting a lot of prisoner of moment love. Expected. But if anything he’s cemented himself as a top 15 player all time. Better than Kobe is laughable. Outside of shooting not sure what Curry was better at? Maybe he chewed his mouth piece better than Kobe jersey.

Being so good at 1 or 2 things can make you better than a jack of all trades or a more well rounded player.

To boil it down to just shooting is a bit much too...

FT shooting, midrange, 3 ball, handles, passing, etc.

I know "scoring" - people will always claim its Kobe, but Steph is a two time scoring champ, put up over 30ppg in two seasons on far better efficiency than Kobe ever did. Not to mention Steph is a better finals performer, and playoff performer.

[hold this L]

Being so good at 1 or 2 things can make you better than a jack of all trades or a more well rounded player.

To boil it down to just shooting is a bit much too...

FT shooting, midrange, 3 ball, handles, passing, etc.

I know "scoring" - people will always claim its Kobe, but Steph is a two time scoring champ, put up over 30ppg in two seasons on far better efficiency than Kobe ever did. Not to mention Steph is a better finals performer, and playoff performer.
The difference between them is mountains apart.

TS% during regular season
55% - Kobe
62.4% - Curry +7.4%

TS% during post season
54.1% - Kobe
60.8% - Curry +6.7%

TS% during NBA finals
50.7% - Kobe
59.6% - Curry +8.9%

[GOBB]

Being so good at 1 or 2 things can make you better than a jack of all trades or a more well rounded player.

To boil it down to just shooting is a bit much too...

FT shooting, midrange, 3 ball, handles, passing, etc.

I know "scoring" - people will always claim its Kobe, but Steph is a two time scoring champ, put up over 30ppg in two seasons on far better efficiency than Kobe ever did. Not to mention Steph is a better finals performer, and playoff performer.

Kobe was not a Jack of all trades. Elite scorer, elite defender. Just as good of a playmaker as curry. Ft shooting? That’s funny. Kobe made more free throws than Curry attempted. You can talk about % and I’ll bring up actual makes. And how that ties into scoring by attacking the rim, putting pressure on a defense, creating foul troubles etc.

[RRR3]

Yes he’s better than Kobe but it took forever for people to admit LEBRON was better than Kobe I doubt it’ll ever happen for Curry.

[HoopsNY]

Kobe was not a Jack of all trades. Elite scorer, elite defender. Just as good of a playmaker as curry. Ft shooting? That’s funny. Kobe made more free throws than Curry attempted. You can talk about % and I’ll bring up actual makes. And how that ties into scoring by attacking the rim, putting pressure on a defense, creating foul troubles etc.

Yea this is a good point. Another thing is that Kobe's TS% in his prime/peak years is closer to 56%. What does that look like if he has his peak/prime years in today's game?

Let's look at some other players from Kobe's era.

LeBron '03-'14: 58% TS%
LeBron '15-'22: 60% TS%

Paul '06-'14: 57% TS%
Paul '15-'22: 59% TS%

Durant '07-'14: 60% TS%
Durant '15-'22: 64% TS%

Conley '07-'14: 53% TS%
Conley '15-'22: 57% TS%

Lowry '07-'14: 55% TS%
Lowry '15-'22: 58% TS%

George '11-'14: 55% TS%
George '15-'22: 58% TS%

When you run the playoff numbers for all of these guys, their TS% are also higher for the same spread of years, varying between 2-4%, just like the regular season.

2014 or 2015 seems to be the year that things begin to drastically change in the league as teams begin to shoot more threes and the game takes a drastic evolutionary turn. It's interesting to see how players from the mid-2000s evolved with it, and it obviously shows in their TS% despite some of them getting up in age.

So if prime/peak Kobe is giving you 56% in a defensive era, what's he doing now? 58%-59% TS%? Suddenly, that doesn't seem like a world away from Steph's 62%, which is obviously better but not miles apart.

[Atlantis]

Kobe only needed one All Star teammate + role players to win a championship in his prime. That being said, I think it's inevitable that Curry will eventually surpass Kobe. I think the two are neck-to-neck right for now, but it's likely Steph will win league MVP next year + championship + Finals MVP.

[red1]

curry was incredible the last 10 years but lets not lose sight here


kobe was arguably the best perimeter defender and scorer at the same time


most dedicated athlete in the league


and the most skilled well-rounded player



and the fact that he would literally lock curry up - that counts for something.

[WhiteKyrie]

Kobe only needed one All Star teammate + role players to win a championship in his prime. That being said, I think it's inevitable that Curry will eventually surpass Kobe. I think the two are neck-to-neck right for now, but it's likely Steph will win league MVP next year + championship + Finals MVP.
If that happens, even as much as I love Kobe and he was my second favorite player ever …

MVP < 3x MVPs
5x Rings = 5x Rings
2x Finals MVPs < 2x Finals MVPs

Steph would get the career nod.

[Celtics 1825]

Needs 1 more ring and FMVP

[Big164]

Top 10 Guards as of 2022

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Stephen Curry
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Jerry West
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Isaiah Thomas
8. Dywane Wade
9. John Stockton
10. Steve Nash

[lakerstekkenn]

No! But Curry is a better shooter than Kobe, but Kobe is the better all-around solid player. The same goes with Jordan Curry is the better shooter but Jordan is the better all-around player.

Curry is the best shooter we have seen, but he lacks defense and all-around play.


Curry doesn't play solid defense he has zero all-defensive team selections this speaks for itself.


Kobe played incredible solid one on one defense and could create his own offensive shots without screens, but that was his style of play, he also is a better slasher and a better rebounder, he can play off physical defensive play.


Starting in the 1999-2000 season, Kobe Bryant was selected 12 times for an NBA All-Defensive Team. He made the first team 9 times. Those 9 appearances in the First Team are an NBA record, shared with Kevin Garnett, Michael Jordan and Gary Payton.

Curry 0 All-defensive team honors, that speaks for itself.

Stats

Stephen Curry NBA Stats Summary: https://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players_stats/stephen_curry_tot.htm
Career Totals
Career Years Games Points Rebounds Assists Steals
Blocks
Season 13 826 20,064 3,838 5,388 1,367 187
Playoffs 8 134 3,570 719 833 210 38


Kobe Bryant NBA Stats Summary: https://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players_stats/kobe_bryant_tot.htm
Career Totals
Career Years Games Points Rebounds Assists Steals
Blocks
Season 20 1,346 33,643 7,047 6,306 1,944 640
Playoffs 15 220 5,640 1,119 1,040 31 144

I don't know how you can make a solid case that Curry is the better all around player and ahead of Koke in greatest off all time rankings, the only raking's you have is shooting curry is the best ever to do it shooting wise but is Kobe is the better all around player.

[Axe]

Well said! :applause: Kobe became a really good leader later in his career even Phil Jackson said this and gave Kobe ton of credit for developing more as a leader at his later years. That’s another huge advantage MJ had over Kobe even early MJ was a natural leader with great leadership skills that drove his teammates.
:cheers:

The zenmaster also said that kobe, while being a similar player to mj, was more immature, cocky and hard to discipline when he was younger. Those are the reasons why some of his teammates were disappointed with him bt, most notably shaq. When their duo dynasty ended in 2004, things weren't so good between the two.

[houston]

no he is not better

[KNOW1EDGE]

I think a simple “no” will suffice. No explanation needed

[rmt]

Kobe only needed one All Star teammate + role players to win a championship in his prime. That being said, I think it's inevitable that Curry will eventually surpass Kobe. I think the two are neck-to-neck right for now, but it's likely Steph will win league MVP next year + championship + Finals MVP.

Forget another MVP - Kerr should rest Curry during the regular season - give the young guys and Klay lots of playing time. Preserve Curry for the playoffs.

[Honor Boost]

If and when Curry does then that means Kawhi does too. Kawhi routinely carried the guy that Kobe couldn't beat.

[StrongLurk]

Hell no Curry hasn't passed Kobe. What the hell is wrong with people?

[1987_Lakers]

35-35 vote. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

35-35 vote. :oldlol:
It’s only gonna get worse for Bean stans. Giannis, Jokic and KD aren’t done yet either. And then Luka’s just getting started. Them thinking LeBron was gonna be the last player to surpass Kobe was pure delusion.

[Shooter]

It’s only gonna get worse for Bean stans. Giannis, Jokic and KD aren’t done yet either. And then Luka’s just getting started. Them thinking LeBron was gonna be the last player to surpass Kobe was pure delusion.

+1

It won't get better for Bean stans. Plus when you consider how shit his advanced stats were, it's going to get even worse.

[1987_Lakers]

It’s only gonna get worse for Bean stans. Giannis, Jokic and KD aren’t done yet either. And then Luka’s just getting started. Them thinking LeBron was gonna be the last player to surpass Kobe was pure delusion.

Wish Kenny was here to see this.

[FromDowntown]

curry was passing up kobe just for 73 wins and only unanimous mvp winner alone not to mention chipped up four times now?

plus he also has 2 mvps in total so what can you say when its curry on top of kobe

[hold this L]

It’s only gonna get worse for Bean stans. Giannis, Jokic and KD aren’t done yet either. And then Luka’s just getting started. Them thinking LeBron was gonna be the last player to surpass Kobe was pure delusion.

I don't see Jokic reaching top 10 or 15. He's just too awful defensively vs elite talent. Giannis to me is the most interesting one, because I can see him being top 20, 15, 10 or more depending what he does in his career. He's ahead of his peers success relative to his age so far in his career.

[plowking]

I don't see Jokic reaching top 10 or 15. He's just too awful defensively vs elite talent. Giannis to me is the most interesting one, because I can see him being top 20, 15, 10 or more depending what he does in his career. He's ahead of his peers success relative to his age so far in his career.

Certain subsections of fans keep saying this, but all the stats point to him being one of the better defensive players.

Lets just cut the nonsense.

[1987_Lakers]

Curry having one of his best regular seasons ever.

If the Warriors start to win more games, Curry has a great case for MVP.

[Full Court]

Curry changed the game in a way Kobe never did. They're close, but I voted Curry.

Plus Curry never raped anybody. That we know of.

[WhiteKyrie]

Curry changed the game in a way Kobe never did. They're close, but I voted Curry.

Plus Curry never raped anybody. That we know of.
Kobe raped someone? That hoe accused him, that’s it

[Avinash]

Kobe.

[Avinash]

Defense is the key here, Kobe is like much much better than Curry

[WhiteKyrie]

Defense is the key here, Kobe is like much much better than Curry
Kobe’s game is more transferable across eras and styles. He was dropping 25 - 30 during the most offensively regressed and difficult scoring climate in league history, 1995 - 2005. So, I don’t feel Curry would be as dominant in an era with significantly more physicality. I just don’t. As amazing and revolutionary as he is …

[Avinash]

Kobe’s game is more transferable across eras and styles. He was dropping 25 - 30 during the most offensively regressed and difficult scoring climate in league history, 1995 - 2005. So, I don’t feel Curry would be as dominant in an era with significantly more physicality. I just don’t. As amazing and revolutionary as he is …

Physicallity another argument for Kobe. Good point. Curry doesnt like playing physical game.

[WhiteKyrie]

Physicallity another argument for Kobe. Good point. Curry doesnt like playing physical game.
I love Curry and I love Kob. I’m just being honest about the situation.

[RRR3]

Defense is the key here, Kobe is like much much better than Curry
Curry is much better at offense.

[Avinash]

Curry is much better at offense.

Not really. Kobe got post game

[RRR3]

^Low IQ

[Avinash]

^Low IQ

:rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

Not really. Kobe got post game

Steph's ability to shoot with accuracy out to 35 feet warps the defense moreso than Kobe operating out of the post.

[Red Pill Sports]

No. Granted both players have won rings with another major superstar as well as without such a star (Wiggins, Klay, and Gasol are not nearly on the level of Shaq and Durant)

But with that said Kobe was more complete than Curry at both ends

[RRR3]

Steph is the best offensive player ever, you'd have to think pretty highly of Kobe's defense to rank him as the better player.

[Full Court]

Kobe raped someone? That hoe accused him, that’s it

Just because he never got convicted and bullied the victim into dropping charges, it doesn't mean he was innocent. It was like OJ Simpson, where everybody knows he did it.

But to the point of the thread, he had way better defense than Curry.

[1987_Lakers]

Why don't people use the "defense" argument when they rank Hakeem behind Magic or Bird?

Hakeem's edge on defense over those two players is a greater edge than Kobe over Curry, but Magic and Bird are usually ranked ahead of Hakeem.

[Full Court]

Why don't people use the "defense" argument when they rank Hakeem behind Magic or Bird?

Hakeem's edge on defense over those two players is a greater edge than Kobe over Curry, but Magic and Bird are usually ranked ahead of Hakeem.

Accomplishments. Rings certainly aren't the only factor in all time rankings, but they do matter.

[Avinash]

Why don't people use the "defense" argument when they rank Hakeem behind Magic or Bird?

Hakeem's edge on defense over those two players is a greater edge than Kobe over Curry, but Magic and Bird are usually ranked ahead of Hakeem.

Because we are comparing guards here. Hakeem is a center vs Magic a guard.Defensive assignments are different

[Hey Yo]

Kobe’s game is more transferable across eras and styles. He was dropping 25 - 30 during the most offensively regressed and difficult scoring climate in league history, 1995 - 2005. So, I don’t feel Curry would be as dominant in an era with significantly more physicality. I just don’t. As amazing and revolutionary as he is …

Kobe wasn't a starter until his 3rd season. Him being 2nd option behind Shaq was a big reason he flourished for his high output through the 2004 season.

[Axe]

It took kobe 13 seasons before winning his first finals mvp.

Meanwhile, it also took curry 13 seasons before winning his first finals mvp.

Interesting.

[hold this L]

Kobe’s game is more transferable across eras and styles. He was dropping 25 - 30 during the most offensively regressed and difficult scoring climate in league history, 1995 - 2005. So, I don’t feel Curry would be as dominant in an era with significantly more physicality. I just don’t. As amazing and revolutionary as he is …

On horrible efficiency relative to the greats. Also, I know you're not gassing Kobe up during "the most difficult" era when the entire defensive schemes then were how do we stop Shaq? Or as the Pistons gameplan in 04 was to let Kobe shoot the Lakers out of the series. That transferable offense :applause:

And Curry is a physical guard since he came back from his season injury from 3 years ago. He bullies guards now which is why he's completely unguardable. This version of Curry would walk over every era.

[RRR3]

On horrible efficiency relative to the greats. Also, I know you're not gassing Kobe up during "the most difficult" era when the entire defensive schemes then were how do we stop Shaq? Or as the Pistons gameplan in 04 was to let Kobe shoot the Lakers out of the series. That transferable offense :applause:

And Curry is a physical guard since he came back from his season injury from 3 years ago. He bullies guards now which is why he's completely unguardable. This version of Curry would walk over every era.
Players close to MJ level impact make coach nervous. That’s why he’ll talk up Kobe but whine about LeBron and Curry

[Phoenix]

Because we are comparing guards here. Hakeem is a center vs Magic a guard.Defensive assignments are different

Ok so on that front, Kobe is more complete than Magic but isn't generally ranked higher.

[WhiteKyrie]

On horrible efficiency relative to the greats. Also, I know you're not gassing Kobe up during "the most difficult" era when the entire defensive schemes then were how do we stop Shaq? Or as the Pistons gameplan in 04 was to let Kobe shoot the Lakers out of the series. That transferable offense :applause:

And Curry is a physical guard since he came back from his season injury from 3 years ago. He bullies guards now which is why he's completely unguardable. This version of Curry would walk over every era.
He’s bullying people after coming back from injury? Even though they can’t touch him or be physical with him? Umm ok.

Defensive game plans still kept Kobe in mind irregardless of their issues with Shaq. In fact there were plenty of teams that let Shaq get his and worried about the rest of the Lakers. And even that said, what does that have to do with perimeter defense of that era having by far and away more physicality than anything since?

And he still had years averaging 28, 25, 30, 28 in those climates.

2004 Finals Kobe shot them out of a series, yes. That wasn’t their only issue. He had a bad Finals. Has Curry never had a disappointing Finals? He got out played at his own position in the 2016 Finals. What relevance does that have?

I think Kobe scores more in this softer era, is 2 less apg behind Steph, and is by far a better defender. And has increased size and the reliability of things like post game, etc so yes a more portable game across eras.

25/5/5 with 5x chips, 2x Finals MVPs, MVP, 9x All 1st Defense
24/5/7 with 4x chips, Finals MVP, 2x MVPs

And Steph hasn’t played long enough to see his career averages take that slight to small dip in his twilight seasons just yet.

I have Curry in that 10 - 15 range all time, 2nd best PG ever, so no need to get extra defensive in your fanboyism. I just don’t think in a vacuum, he’s a singularly better basketball player than Kobe. I just don’t.

They are at this point after this most recent ring, more valuable than all priors, can we really start the conversation. I get what Curry brings to the table over Kobe too. He’s changed the dynamics of the sport pretty radically.

At best it’s a conversation. You’re acting like Curry is definitively better, which couldn’t be more delusional.

[RRR3]

He’s bullying people after coming back from injury? Even though they can’t touch him or be physical with him? Umm ok.

Defensive game plans still kept Kobe in mind irregardless of their issues with Shaq. In fact there were plenty of teams that let Shaq get his and worried about the rest of the Lakers. And even that said, what does that have to do with perimeter defense of that era having by far and away more physicality than anything since?

And he still had years averaging 28, 25, 30, 28 in those climates.

2004 Finals Kobe shot them out of a series, yes. That wasn’t their only issue. He had a bad Finals. Has Curry never had a disappointing Finals? He got out played at his own position in the 2016 Finals. What relevance does that have?

I think Kobe scores more in this softer era, is 2 less apg behind Steph, and is by far a better defender. And has increased size and the reliability of things like post game, etc so yes a more portable game across eras.

25/5/5 with 5x chips, 2x Finals MVPs, MVP, 9x All 1st Defense
24/5/7 with 4x chips, Finals MVP, 2x MVPs

And Steph hasn’t played long enough to see his career averages take that slight to small dip in his twilight seasons just yet.

I have Curry in that 10 - 15 range all time, 2nd best PG ever, so no need to get extra defensive in your fanboyism. I just don’t think in a vacuum, he’s a singularly better basketball player than Kobe. I just don’t.

They are at this point after this most recent ring, more valuable than all priors, can we really start the conversation. I get what Curry brings to the table over Kobe too. He’s changed the dynamics of the sport pretty radically.

At best it’s a conversation. You’re acting like Curry is definitively better, which couldn’t be more delusional.
He is.

[hold this L]

He’s bullying people after coming back from injury? Even though they can’t touch him or be physical with him? Umm ok.

Defensive game plans still kept Kobe in mind irregardless of their issues with Shaq. In fact there were plenty of teams that let Shaq get his and worried about the rest of the Lakers. And even that said, what does that have to do with perimeter defense of that era having by far and away more physicality than anything since?

And he still had years averaging 28, 25, 30, 28 in those climates.

2004 Finals Kobe shot them out of a series, yes. That wasn’t their only issue. He had a bad Finals. Has Curry never had a disappointing Finals? He got out played at his own position in the 2016 Finals. What relevance does that have?

I think Kobe scores more in this softer era, is 2 less apg behind Steph, and is by far a better defender. And has increased size and the reliability of things like post game, etc so yes a more portable game across eras.

25/5/5 with 5x chips, 2x Finals MVPs, MVP, 9x All 1st Defense
24/5/7 with 4x chips, Finals MVP, 2x MVPs

And Steph hasn’t played long enough to see his career averages take that slight to small dip in his twilight seasons just yet.

I have Curry in that 10 - 15 range all time, 2nd best PG ever, so no need to get extra defensive in your fanboyism. I just don’t think in a vacuum, he’s a singularly better basketball player than Kobe. I just don’t.

They are at this point after this most recent ring, more valuable than all priors, can we really start the conversation. I get what Curry brings to the table over Kobe too. He’s changed the dynamics of the sport pretty radically.

At best it’s a conversation. You’re acting like Curry is definitively better, which couldn’t be more delusional.

I'm not getting defensivey, your premise makes no sense. Talking about Kobe's offense during his time where he was a clear #2 where the opposition gameplaned first for Shaq.. is dumb as hell. Also do not compare Steph with Kobe's averages, that's a joke in itself.

Curry's average in his NBA career is 62.6% during the regular season. You want to know how many times Kobe has hit Curry's average throughout 20 years? Zero. He has never even hit 60% TS throughout his career because he has literally the worst shot selection in NBA history (he easily could have been far more efficient). Curry's averages in the playoffs, is 60.8%. You want to know how many times Kobe has hit Curry's averages throughout 15 years? Zero.

https://media.tenor.com/lXWsp_piG_AAAAAM/kobe-bryant-nba.gif

The relevance to 04 is simple because you're making him out to be some super offensive God. Kobe isn't in the same level as Curry is offensively. And I wasn't talking about an all time list but their offense. If people think Kobe is better, that's fine. I only have Curry 2 spots ahead of him anyway.

[1987_Lakers]

Accomplishments. Rings certainly aren't the only factor in all time rankings, but they do matter.

I get it, but people in this thread picking Kobe just because he is a better defender is a flawed argument. For example, Magic is usually ranked ahead of Hakeem and his defense was way worse than Hakeem's. Guys like Magic & Kobe have more individual accolades than Hakeem & Curry and that can be an argument used for them, but the defense argument in the Curry & Kobe debate is kinda weak & lazy when you factor in Curry's offense is probably the best we have ever seen from a guard with MJ in terms of scoring & efficiency. Kobe made a bunch of undeserving All-Defensive teams even though he does have the edge in the defensive department, his defensive impact wasn't anywhere near all-time great.

[RRR3]

I'm not getting defensivey, your premise makes no sense. Talking about Kobe's offense during his time where he was a clear #2 where the opposition gameplaned first for Shaq.. is dumb as hell. Also do not compare Steph with Kobe's averages, that's a joke in itself.

Curry's average in his NBA career is 62.6% during the regular season. You want to know how many times Kobe has hit Curry's average throughout 20 years? Zero. He has never even hit 60% TS throughout his career because he has literally the worst shot selection in NBA history (he easily could have been far more efficient). Curry's averages in the playoffs, is 60.8%. You want to know how many times Kobe has hit Curry's averages throughout 15 years? Zero.

https://media.tenor.com/lXWsp_piG_AAAAAM/kobe-bryant-nba.gif

The relevance to 04 is simple because you're making him out to be some super offensive God. Kobe isn't in the same level as Curry is offensively. And I wasn't talking about an all time list but their offense. If people think Kobe is better, that's fine. I only have Curry 2 spots ahead of him anyway.
People always have to be dragged kicking and screaming into admitting someone has breached the top 10 it seems. Happened with LeBron, I remember people shrieking about it before it got so overwhelming all but the most insane haters admitted he was there.

[Phoenix]

Even if you remove the 2017 and 2018 chips ( AKA the 'Durant factor') he has 2 MVPs, 2 rings, a finals MVP, and the all-time 3 point record. That in and of itself is top 10 worthy considering we have guys like Oscar routinely in the top dozen or so with less MVPs and a 2nd banana ring.

[HoopsNY]

I get it, but people in this thread picking Kobe just because he is a better defender is a flawed argument. For example, Magic is usually ranked ahead of Hakeem and his defense was way worse than Hakeem's. Guys like Magic & Kobe have more individual accolades than Hakeem & Curry and that can be an argument used for them, but the defense argument in the Curry & Kobe debate is kinda weak & lazy when you factor in Curry's offense is probably the best we have ever seen from a guard with MJ in terms of scoring & efficiency. Kobe made a bunch of undeserving All-Defensive teams even though he does have the edge in the defensive department, his defensive impact wasn't anywhere near all-time great.

That's cause Hakeem is by far, without a doubt, the most underrated player in history.

[Axe]

That's cause Hakeem is by far, without a doubt, the most underrated player in history.
Meanwhile, stephen curry used to be the most overrated player of all-time. Well at least according to 3ball. :ohwell:

[BigShotBob]

Even if you remove the 2017 and 2018 chips ( AKA the 'Durant factor') he has 2 MVPs, 2 rings, a finals MVP, and the all-time 3 point record. That in and of itself is top 10 worthy considering we have guys like Oscar routinely in the top dozen or so with less MVPs and a 2nd banana ring.

No that is not top 10 worthy when compared against the other top 10 players. Unfortunately the truth is that there just isn't room for a player like Curry who is limited defensively and has a tendency to completely collapse during key moments in the Finals here and there

[Phoenix]

No that is not top 10 worthy when compared against the other top 10 players. Unfortunately the truth is that there just isn't room for a player like Curry who is limited defensively and has a tendency to completely collapse during key moments in the Finals here and there

Why isn't it? Hakeem is considered top 10( and he should be, for the record) with 1 MVP, 2 rings, 2 DPOYs and two finals MVPs, How is 2 MVPs( one unanimous), 2 rings, 1 finals MVP not comparable hardware achievements?

How is Curry's limitations defensively any more pronounced than someone like Magic, and why is Curry's finals collapse ( in 2016 basically) noteworthy but 'Tragic' Johnson in 1984 is overlooked? Curry's had great finals in 2015, 2017, 2018, and 2022, was bad in 2016, and decent in 2019.

[RRR3]

Why isn't it? Hakeem is considered top 10( and he should be, for the record) with 1 MVP, 2 rings, 2 DPOYs and two finals MVPs, How is 2 MVPs( one unanimous), 2 rings, 1 finals MVP not comparable hardware achievements?

How is Curry's limitations defensively any more pronounced than someone like Magic, and why is Curry's finals collapse ( in 2016 basically) noteworthy but 'Tragic' Johnson in 1984 is overlooked? Curry's had great finals in 2015, 2017, 2018, and 2022, was bad in 2016, and decent in 2019.
He was not great in 2015 that is such revisionist history lol. I rank Curry much higher than other people but I hate that narrative.

[Phoenix]

He was not great in 2015 that is such revisionist history lol. I rank Curry much higher than other people but I hate that narrative.

Revisionist? He was 26/6/5/2 59% TS. I'm not saying it's an all-timer but it sure as hell should count as a positive when assessing his finals record. I'm contesting this notion that he's a subpar finals performer. If any narrative needs to be busted it's that, especially when you measure him against other all-timers finals performance. The only top 10 players who were undeniably better in the finals was MJ, Lebron, Shaq, and Hakeem ( ( I didn't see Russell and Wilt). Magic, Bird? Kobe? Duncan? Their finals performances in totality weren't on some level beyond what Curry did.

[SouBeachTalents]

He was not great in 2015 that is such revisionist history lol. I rank Curry much higher than other people but I hate that narrative.
Watching it live, 2015 was frankly not an impressive series. He had one great game, one atrocious game, and was pretty forgettable the rest of the series. They legit very likely would've lost if LeBron didn't have an abnormally inefficient season.

[Phoenix]

Ok I need to watch the 2015 finals again because I must be misremembering how Curry played in it.

[Manny98]

I have Curry 6th all time and Kobe 9th

[HoopsNY]

Oh, we all know that era was tougher to score...I'm not saying it wasn't...

But this notion that Steph wouldn't be capable of what Ray Allen was doing back then doesn't hold up. He's just that good...and this is what people do when a guy like Steph wins or does things that challenge their views...they come up with rationalizations as to why he's doing this stuff.

Again...after the rules changed...Kobe was a 56% TS player in the playoffs...that is still a huge gap...

And it isn't only one year for Ray...

99 - 63% TS
00 - 55% TS
01 - 61% TS
05 - 60% TS

If we are going to play the "what if" game...the very least one should grant is that he'd at least be as efficient as Ray Allen...

I think ImKobe responded appropriately here...Allen had 18/26 games in one playoff run from '99-'01 before the rule changes in '05. For that three year stretch, Allen shot 46.3% from deep. Steph has no three year stretch shooting like that. His highest is 41.5%.

If the retort is that Steph played in many more games, then that just establishes ImKobe's point, that it's not really a fair sample or at least something that's parallel. For what it's worth, Allen had a 58.5% TS% for his career in the playoffs (and he was still a marksman in his final year with Miami).

Steph also wouldn't be taking as many three pointers, so that probably would affect his overall TS% as well.

I still believe people are underrating Kobe's playmaking ability and his defensive abilities that he has over Steph.

[hold this L]

No that is not top 10 worthy when compared against the other top 10 players. Unfortunately the truth is that there just isn't room for a player like Curry who is limited defensively and has a tendency to completely collapse during key moments in the Finals here and there
I guess BigShotBob clearly has Magic out of the top 10 due to his defense. Does Magic make the top 20 in the all time list? Need to know if there's a place for guys like that.


When people talk this, it's the equivalent of a caveman talking to someone from today's society. All that matters is overall impact, and someone's impact at doing a few things compared to someone more complete could still mean that the less complete player is more impactful. Curry has the greatest season ever, and the greatest post season year ever (73 and 16-1). One of the highest RS win streaks in NBA history. 67+ win pace 3 times, it's only been done 2 other times since Jordan from nearly 30 years ago. Not bad for someone who is limited defensively and apparently collapses in key moments in finals here and there. Odd that he seems to have these collapses, yet has 4 rings in 6 finals attempts.


I have Curry 6th all time and Kobe 9th
I got the Chef 8th and Kobe 10th.

[RRR3]

You can’t get Kobe stans to admit LeBron is better even now they’re not gonna do it with Curry.

[Stephonit]

You can’t get Kobe stans to admit LeBron is better even now they’re not gonna do it with Curry.

You cannot even get LeBron stans to admit Curry is better.

[BigShotBob]

I guess BigShotBob clearly has Magic out of the top 10 due to his defense. Does Magic make the top 20 in the all time list? Need to know if there's a place for guys like that.


When people talk this, it's the equivalent of a caveman talking to someone from today's society. All that matters is overall impact, and someone's impact at doing a few things compared to someone more complete could still mean that the less complete player is more impactful. Curry has the greatest season ever, and the greatest post season year ever (73 and 16-1). One of the highest RS win streaks in NBA history. 67+ win pace 3 times, it's only been done 2 other times since Jordan from nearly 30 years ago. Not bad for someone who is limited defensively and apparently collapses in key moments in finals here and there. Odd that he seems to have these collapses, yet has 4 rings in 6 finals attempts.


I got the Chef 8th and Kobe 10th.

Magic played center and won a champion as a Rookie and defended other centers and won a championship let me know when Curry can accomplish that while being the greatest passer ever

Curry collapsed astronomically in 2016 and once got locked up by Matthew Dellavudova and was completely helpless against Kyrie. Could Dellavudova guard Magic?

MJ Kareem Lebron Wilt Russell Magic Bird Duncan Kobe Shaq (in no order)

There is no room for Curry sorry he can settle for top 15

[hold this L]

Magic played center and won a champion as a Rookie and defended other centers and won a championship let me know when Curry can accomplish that while being the greatest passer ever

Curry collapsed astronomically in 2016 and once got locked up by Matthew Dellavudova and was completely helpless against Kyrie. Could Dellavudova guard Magic?

MJ Kareem Lebron Wilt Russell Magic Bird Duncan Kobe Shaq (in no order)

There is no room for Curry sorry he can settle for top 15
How many games did Magic defend them for at center? Must have been a whole season? We are talking about the same guy who was called Tragic Johnson right? Nobody that isn't acting like a massive clown can say with a straight face that Magic was a good defender throughout his career. You clearly are not part of that list. This is the problem with people that are desperate, is that they make hypocritical dumbass points. Totally ok to keep Steph out of the top 10 because of his defense while putting Magic in the top 5.

[rmt]

What is different about Steph from other ATGs is that his defense is getting better - at an age when most start checking out on the defensive end to concentrate on the offensive half, his defensive effort has stepped up (while maintaining the offensive side). Maybe it's the time off due to injury that he seems like he has more in the tank. He can continue with the stellar shooting but all that running around? he's gotta slow down soon.

[bison]

i have chef at 9th and kobe at 2nd. both are above lebron

[Big164]

Tim Duncan is not Top 10 and if he is he wont be there for long.

I can name at least 5 Big men superior to TD: (Dream, Kareem, Chamberlain, Shaq, Russell)

Name one little guy superior to Steph????

[WhiteKyrie]

Tim Duncan is not Top 10 and if he is he wont be there for long.

I can name at least 5 Big men superior to TD: (Dream, Kareem, Chamberlain, Shaq, Russell)

Name one little guy superior to Steph????

I agree with this though, so

MJ
LeBron / Magic / Bird
Chamberlain / Russell / Kareem / Shaq
Kobe / Curry / Hakeem / Duncan / KD

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree with this though, so

MJ
LeBron / Magic / Bird
Chamberlain / Russell / Kareem / Shaq
Kobe / Curry / Hakeem / Duncan / KD
What makes Magic & Bird an entire tier above Kareem & Shaq?

[aj1987]

I agree with this though, so

MJ
LeBron / Magic / Bird
Chamberlain / Russell / Kareem / Shaq
Kobe / Curry / Hakeem / Duncan / KD

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Where would Curry rank if he wins another title this year?

[Phoenix]

Where would Curry rank if he wins another title this year?

Was thinking about this earlier. I don't know where I'd rank him but we're gonna need a little chat about who the GOAT PG is. Magic has been the consensus for 30+ years now....

[Axe]

Between 11-13 at the most.

[1987_Lakers]

Between 11-13 at the most.

Nah, if he wins another title he is top 10 at the very worst. You would have to put him anywhere between 6-9 I'm guessing.

[3ba11]

Nah, if he wins another title he is top 10 at the very worst. You would have to put him anywhere between 6-9 I'm guessing.


Curry will be in the conversation for GOAT if he wins this year.. If Lebron had done what Curry did, his career would be more spectacular.. Imagine Lebron carrying the scoring load and winning 73 games and having dynasties and long-running organic juggernaut that destroys everyone for a decade.

[1987_Lakers]

Curry will be in the conversation for GOAT if he wins this year.. If Lebron had done what Curry did, his career would be more spectacular.. Imagine Lebron carrying the scoring load and winning 73 games and having dynasties and long-running organic juggernaut that destroys everyone for a decade.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history

[Axe]

Curry will be in the conversation for GOAT if he wins this year.. If Lebron had done what Curry did, his career would be more spectacular.. Imagine Lebron carrying the scoring load and winning 73 games and having dynasties and long-running organic juggernaut that destroys everyone for a decade.
But didn't you mention before that he was overrated bt? :kobe:

[Axe]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history
Beat me to it. :lol

[Big164]

I got Steph 7th. If he wins Im bumping him up to 4th or higher…


10. Kobe
9. Bird
8. Shaq
7. Kareem
6. Magic
5. Lebron
4. Steph Curry
3. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
1. Michael Jordan

[3ba11]

But didn't you mention before that he was overrated bt? :kobe:


That was a long time ago.. Unlike Lebron, Curry proved me wrong and he actually enlightened me on the proper way to do the top 10 all-time rankings - my rankings are now based on the skillset that needed the least help to win, so the best expert jumpshooters > the best centers > the best ball-dominators based on who needed less help to win... So the top 10 is: MJ, Curry, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Lebron, Oscar

[SouBeachTalents]

That was a long time ago.. Unlike Lebron, Curry proved me wrong and he actually enlightened me on the proper way to do the top 10 all-time rankings - my rankings are now based on the skillset that needed the least help to win, so the best expert jumpshooters > the best centers > the best ball-dominators based on who needed less help to win... So the top 10 is: MJ, Curry, Kobe, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Lebron, Oscar
That was 2 seasons ago. Called him the most overrated player EVER 12 years into his career :lol

[Phoenix]

Curry will be in the conversation for GOAT if he wins this year.. If Lebron had done what Curry did, his career would be more spectacular.. Imagine Lebron carrying the scoring load and winning 73 games and having dynasties and long-running organic juggernaut that destroys everyone for a decade.

https://i.postimg.cc/HLPJdt1m/3nutball3.gif

[Phoenix]

That was 2 seasons ago. Called him the most overrated player EVER 12 years into his career :lol

The most hilarious bit is that Steph hadn't even played basketball or done anything 'legacy-wise' to cause a rethink of the original take. He changed his mind during the off-season. :oldlol: