Was Stephen Curry or Kevin Durant the best player on the 2017, 2018 & 2019 Warriors?

[Shogon]

Trolls and low IQ posters will be revealed here.

[FultzNationRISE]

Well the whole team had been built around Steph’s game and had years of experience together, so it’s not a surprise he would be their most important player.

As far as who the better player was in a vacuum those years? It’s impossible to say because you can never see anyone play in a vacuum. Circumstance always has an impact.

Only thing we can really say for sure is Bron has continuously been the league’s best player since 06.

Thats all we can really know with confidence.

[Fork]

Curry himself would state that Durant was the better player.

[Shogon]

Curry himself would state that Durant was the better player.

Ha Ha! Thread undermined! I guess that solves it, right? Shut it down, fellas. This poster has offered incontrovertible proof! There's no arguing against that!

[post]

math would say curry but i hear math is a virgin so beware

[AlternativeAcc.]

Ha Ha! Thread undermined! I guess that solves it, right? Shut it down, fellas. This poster has offered incontrovertible proof! There's no arguing against that!

Kerr always implied Durant was better...

I guess Kerr doesn't matter either because gravity n shit right?

[jlip]

Durant was the better individual player, but Steph was the more impactful player in the context of team basketball.

[Axe]

Kerr always implied Durant was better...

I guess Kerr doesn't matter either because gravity n shit right?
Op is a troll. Why would durant win a finals mvp if he wasn't the best player in his team? Pfft.

[Shogon]

Durant was the better individual player, but Steph was the more impactful player in the context of team basketball.


Which is a really fancy way of saying Steph is a better player.

The NBA isn't 1 on 1. Never has been, never will be.

If it were, Kevin Durant would likely be the best player in NBA history.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Which is a really fancy way of saying Steph is a better player.

The NBA isn't 1 on 1. Never has been, never will be.

If it were, Kevin Durant would likely be the best player in NBA history.

Durant is elite on ball, off ball, outside the paint, inside the paint, and is the better defender

Curry is a 3 pt shooter and doesn't excel anywhere else

Why are you arguing with Steve Kerr?

[Shogon]

Durant is elite on ball, off ball, outside the paint, inside the paint, and is the better defender

Curry is a 3 pt shooter and doesn't excel anywhere else

Why are you arguing with Steve Kerr?

I guess Steve Kerr's opinion on the matter is infallible because he saw them both on the same team right? I mean after all Steve Kerr is an elite coach and he was a great player.

And we all know players and coaches can't have erroneous opinions. I mean, hell, maybe Hakeem really was 20x better than Duncan, like Robert Horry says. Horry was a good player, clearly must know than I do. Why would I ever argue with that? MJ sure has done a bang up job with the teams he has managed in the Wizards and the Hornets. Elite teams, just like MJ the player. Players' opinions matter, people! They're always right! Clearly!

All that aside, I do wonder if Kerr really feels that way and if he would still say the same thing... because I am skeptical that he ever truly felt that way. Kerr is an adaptive coach that says what he needs to say and treats players differently based on individual needs. He does not coach all players the same.

[red1]

I always said kd but I have to re-evaluate after kd got swept in the first round and curry won another ring without kd

[AlternativeAcc.]

I guess Steve Kerr's opinion on the matter is infallible because he saw them both on the same team right? I mean after all Steve Kerr is an elite coach and he was a great player.

And we all know players and coaches can't have erroneous opinions. I mean, hell, maybe Hakeem really was 20x better than Duncan, like Robert Horry says. Horry was a good player, clearly must know than I do. Why would I ever argue with that? MJ sure has done a bang up job with the teams he has managed in the Wizards and the Hornets. Elite teams, just like MJ the player. Players' opinions matter, people! They're always right! Clearly!

All that aside, I do wonder if Kerr really feels that way and if he would still say the same thing... because I am skeptical that he ever truly felt that way. Kerr is an adaptive coach that says what he needs to say and treats players differently based on individual needs. He does not coach all players the same.

Just saying bro.

The 'gravity' argument doesn't work for Durant... he's one of the greatest shooters ever at 7ft, and he's elite mid range and in the paint...

Boiling KD down to just a 1v1 player is ludicrous

And you even posted the link that shows Durant in OKC had absurdly high gravity (whatever ****ing stat that is lol)

So the argument doesn't work.. KD is simply a better all around player due to size and skillset.... simple as that

Using the impact argument, we know steph missed the playoffs last year and KD was busy dropping 35ppg on 63%TS vs the champion Bucks.... and this year he carried a team that curry couldn't carry to the playoffs

That's team impact..

[999Guy]

Being that Draymond was their most consistent and resilient player, whose skills were also more rare from a league landscape and historical standpoint, I’d give him the nod.

But Curry’s a decent bit above Durant after that.

[tpols]

I always said kd but I have to re-evaluate after kd got swept in the first round and curry won another ring without kd

Not only that but curry destroyed the same team that destroyed Durant. :oldlol: Couldn't have a more apt situation for comparison. Durant wasted kyries epic 1st game and that was all she wrote.
.

[red1]

Not only that but curry destroyed the same team that destroyed Durant. :oldlol: Couldn't have a more apt situation fpr comparison. Durant wasted kyries epic 1st game and that was all she wrote.
.

dont get me wrong durant is the better player but curry is now clearly more important to the warrior's success


agreed except kd had to do more for the nets - people cant forget how unreal he was against the bucks last year

[Kblaze8855]

Considering Steph was playing better last year when they didn’t even make the playoffs while KD was a quarter inch of foot size from likely cruising to the finals I’m not sure anything from this year informs anything about either of them individually. They are both way too far in for me to make new conclusions especially using anything recent to determine 5 years ago.

Considering how good they were before he got there it’s obvious Steph was more key to their play style. It was also clear KD was often doing more on both ends at the time.

I guess it comes down to if you think “Best” is abstract or a matter of what the players are doing at the moment. Like Tim Duncan when he took a step back for the guards in San Antonio but it was clear who made the spurs what they were.

If you give full credit for culture and “If he felt like it” Steph is the obvious pick. If you want to break down total basketball and how each performed nightly?

As usual the question comes down to how you wanna frame it. It’s not like the many people playing or coaching who had KD as the best in the nba are somehow lacking in basketball knowledge relative to the internet kids who think 4 hours a week of half watching a game while on their phone makes them experts.

Might just be a Magic vs Kareem thing. Culture/style making up for individual dominance and traditional thinking.

You could make either case and not be an idiot. I’ve heard both made by people I know for a fact know more than I do about the situation.

[tontoz]

Defense leaving KD open to double Steph.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211029.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211102.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211152.jpg

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211359.jpg

And then there's.....

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211834.jpg

[tontoz]

Let's not forget...

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

[SouBeachTalents]

https://i.ibb.co/vm2y4Fy/1.jpg

[houston]

Truth is Steph was the team best player in 2017 and 2019. People gotta remember Durant was hurt alot during his Warriors 3 years. Steph was the more durable except for 2018. Plus that was the only year Durant played first team all-nba in 18 since he was with the Warriors. Steph was 2nd All-nba in 2017 but he played way more games than Durant that season. 2019 Steph was all-nba 1st team while Durant was 2ND all-nba in 2019. Plus he got hurt again in the playoffs.

When judging all-time greats gotta win titles as first team all-nba to truly be up there. Durant only did it once just like Steph but Steph was MVP of the league and it was his team Durant came to him after he lost to his team in the playoffs.

[RRR3]

Being that Draymond was their most consistent and resilient player, whose skills were also more rare from a league landscape and historical standpoint, I’d give him the nod.

But Curry’s a decent bit above Durant after that.
:facepalm

[Shooter]

2017 I guess it goes both ways?
By 2018 it was clearly KD though.
And in 2018, I'm not sure? Probably KD again.

[Axe]

They needed kd vs. kong after the ultimate 2016 comeback.

[hold this L]

Warriors had a 30%+ higher win record with Steph no KD than the opposite. There's nothing to debate, KD been the 3-4th best in the world every single season after 2014.

[Bawkish]

Just like what Chuck said, Steph is the bus driver

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqN187Tg/1655084875765.png

[Sulico]

It's Steph. KD is just not that guy. We have two guys like that in the NBA, Steph and Lebron. They both have enough leadership, personal skill, versatility and pure will to win it all.

Then theres guys like KD or Kawhi, who are very skilled and can win if a lot of things go very right for them.

Steph's on/off career numbers are:
RS +11.6
Playoffs +11.5

Lebron is not far off
RS +10.9
Playoffs +11.0

That's impact for you, very few players have impact numbers like that. KD is ofcourse nowhere near that.

KD
RS +5.5
Playoffs +2.9

Kevin Durant is Jeff Bezos's role player. He is incredibly good in his role, but he lacks other skills and versatility to truly impact the game the way Steph does.

[ImKobe]

So now people want to use On/Off numbers to discredit KD but won't do the same with Shaq in 2001 Playoffs. Interesting.

[Sulico]

So now people want to use On/Off numbers to discredit KD but won't do the same with Shaq in 2001 Playoffs. Interesting.

On/off stat is useful over the course of career. Looking at it after 1 playoff run is the same as looking at TS% after one game.

[ImKobe]

On/off stat is useful over the course of career. Looking at it after 1 playoff run is the same as looking at TS% after one game.


It's a useless stat when comparing players in general, especially if we're going to do it on separate teams and we use it with 0 context. Durant is as elite as it gets and showed his impact this season when he had the Nets at #1 in the East and they cratered all the way down to 10th or 11th when he injured his knee when they lost 11 straight and 16 out of 21 at one point. He has an average of +9.2 in the RS over the last 10 seasons. That's elite impact.

And if we want to make the argument using On/Off numbers, then Dray is a more valuable player than Steph as his Playoff On/Off numbers are considerably higher and he peaked higher than Steph in that stat in the RS when they had their 73 - 9 season.

[Overdrive]

I guess Steve Kerr's opinion on the matter is infallible because he saw them both on the same team right? I mean after all Steve Kerr is an elite coach and he was a great player.

And we all know players and coaches can't have erroneous opinions. I mean, hell, maybe Hakeem really was 20x better than Duncan, like Robert Horry says. Horry was a good player, clearly must know than I do. Why would I ever argue with that? MJ sure has done a bang up job with the teams he has managed in the Wizards and the Hornets. Elite teams, just like MJ the player. Players' opinions matter, people! They're always right! Clearly!

All that aside, I do wonder if Kerr really feels that way and if he would still say the same thing... because I am skeptical that he ever truly felt that way. Kerr is an adaptive coach that says what he needs to say and treats players differently based on individual needs. He does not coach all players the same.

So any opion that doesn't share yours is discardable, because a player unrelated to the subject made a hyperbolic statement?

The importance of a player doesn't tell much about his individual quality. The Warriors struggled to win without Draymond in the past, but would consider him anywhere close to Curry as a basketball player?

[Shogon]

So any opion that doesn't share yours is discardable, because a player unrelated to the subject made a hyperbolic statement?

No, my point was that just because someone was a player or a coach, their opinion doesn't mean shit. And it may be an accurate opinion, or it may not be accurate. My point was that using someone else's opinion to strengthen your argument is a dogshit way of viewing the world and it really just means you don't know enough on the subject to prove your point, so you're appealing to authority. And the "authority" could be wrong af. It's intellectual laziness at absolute best to rely on someone else's opinion to form an argument, regardless of who they are. If you want to take them at their word because you don't know enough, that's fine and reasonable, but you shouldn't then be pivoting from believing them to then using their words as an argument, when the only reason you believed them in the first place was you not knowing enough.


The importance of a player doesn't tell much about his individual quality. The Warriors struggled to win without Draymond in the past, but would consider him anywhere close to Curry as a basketball player?

They're an interesting case. Steph is the GOAT offensive player imo, and Draymond is one of the best defenders we've ever seen during certain stretches. There's a lot to unpack here, more than I'm qualified to do.

[Sulico]

It's a useless stat when comparing players in general, especially if we're going to do it on separate teams and we use it with 0 context. Durant is as elite as it gets and showed his impact this season when he had the Nets at #1 in the East and they cratered all the way down to 10th or 11th when he injured his knee when they lost 11 straight and 16 out of 21 at one point. He has an average of +9.2 in the RS over the last 10 seasons. That's elite impact.

And if we want to make the argument using On/Off numbers, then Dray is a more valuable player than Steph as his Playoff On/Off numbers are considerably higher and he peaked higher than Steph in that stat in the RS when they had their 73 - 9 season.

You didn't change my mind, but you make good points. On/off is a flawed stat for sure, and I rarely rely on it.

[Overdrive]

No, my point was that just because someone was a player or a coach, their opinion doesn't mean shit. And it may be an accurate opinion, or it may not be accurate. My point was that using someone else's opinion to strengthen your argument is a dogshit way of viewing the world and it really just means you don't know enough on the subject to prove your point, so you're appealing to authority. And the "authority" could be wrong af. It's intellectual laziness at absolute best to rely on someone else's opinion to form an argument, regardless of who they are. If you want to take them at their word because you don't know enough, that's fine and reasonable, but you shouldn't then be pivoting from believing them to then using their words as an argument, when the only reason you believed them in the first place was you not knowing enough.


It's definately lazy to take someone ele's opinion to undermine a point, but there's also a dufferent quality in authority, but of course no matter what you have to make your own point and not solely rely on that opinion.

I just found the combination of rejecting Kerr's opinion and saying there's only one right one from the start odd. It can definately argued both ways but I could not be bothered to do so tbh. I think they're in the same ball park as players, but Steph is easkly better for the culture of your team. Durant became a headcase sometime after his MVP season and that should always be accounted for.

[Ryoka Narusawa]

Kevin Durant was the team's scoring leader for a reason.

[LeGoat4Life]

It’s been the curry era since 2015 till now

We are witnessing greatness

[Carbine]

It was obviously Durant for me. He peaked on defense during his time with the Warriors where he was making more impact plays on that side than Dray in a number of playoff games.

He made more crucial baskets during his time there. He led the team in playoff scoring.

There is a reason many felt Durant was the best player in the world for that stretch. I'm sure the culture and attention to detail helped his game evolve and flourish, just like it did for Wiggins.

Also, people posting 5 screenshots of Steph creating open shots for Durant is painfully agenda driven. It's basketball, great players create plays. What a relevation! Not like Durant never created open shots for his teammates or anything..... My god.

[tontoz]

It was obviously Durant for me. He peaked on defense during his time with the Warriors where he was making more impact plays on that side than Dray in a number of playoff games.

He made more crucial baskets during his time there. He led the team in playoff scoring.

There is a reason many felt Durant was the best player in the world for that stretch. I'm sure the culture and attention to detail helped his game evolve and flourish, just like it did for Wiggins.

Also, people posting 5 screenshots of Steph creating open shots for Durant is painfully agenda driven. It's basketball, great players create plays. What a relevation! Not like Durant never created open shots for his teammates or anything..... My god.


If you have any screen shots or vids of KD being doubled leaving Steph open feel free to share. I won't hold my breath.

Draymond recently said Steph was doubled 7 times as often as KD. An analysis of an entire Finals series found the actual number was over twice as much.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504842-Draymond-Green-said-Curry-was-doubled-7x-more-than-KD-on-his-podcast-KD-responds

[colts19]

Durant was the better individual player, but Steph was the more impactful player in the context of team basketball.

This

[Johnny32]

I always said kd but I have to re-evaluate after kd got swept in the first round and curry won another ring without kd

How good kd is now post achilles isn't really relevant to who was better in 17 and 18. KD was the better player. Only math nerds who can't dribble a ball even argue this. Steph has a better legacy currently though.

[warriorfan]

It was obviously Durant for me. He peaked on defense during his time with the Warriors where he was making more impact plays on that side than Dray in a number of playoff games.

He made more crucial baskets during his time there. He led the team in playoff scoring.

There is a reason many felt Durant was the best player in the world for that stretch. I'm sure the culture and attention to detail helped his game evolve and flourish, just like it did for Wiggins.

Also, people posting 5 screenshots of Steph creating open shots for Durant is painfully agenda driven. It's basketball, great players create plays. What a relevation! Not like Durant never created open shots for his teammates or anything..... My god.

Instead of looking at 5 screenshots you could…..actually watch the games? Lol. Your takes reek of box score reading and cliche narratives that aren’t really based in anything factual.

[red1]

How good kd is now post achilles isn't really relevant to who was better in 17 and 18. KD was the better player. Only math nerds who can't dribble a ball even argue this. Steph has a better legacy currently though.

yeah the 2018 warriors would have won without kd but chance they get that ring in 2017 without kd


I think kd is the better player clearly but steph has the better career. I think that's very fair.

[hold this L]

Durant was the better individual player, but Steph was the more impactful player in the context of team basketball.

In other words, Steph is the better player.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

What has Kevin DuSwept done without Steph and the Warriors? Dude just got swept by the same team Steph dicked on. This is the same team that every other superstar that played put up huge historic numbers and performances on, yet KD couldn't do shit.

[Hey Yo]

Let's not forget...

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/FUH2MZTXwAEgX1H.jpeg

https://twitter.com/ThePosterzone/status/1351652900024557571?s=20

[red1]

What has Kevin DuSwept done without Steph and the Warriors? Dude just got swept by the same team Steph dicked on. This is the same team that every other superstar that played put up huge historic numbers and performances on, yet KD couldn't do shit.

he's unguardable

7-foot lanky bastard that can shoot over any contest from any wing player ever



he proved it again last year without kyrie giving the champion bucks a harder challenge than the far more talented suns - he almost beat them by himself with bruce brown and the rest of the nets shitting the bed - and of course kyrie's mentally and physically fragile self wasn't playing in the series so he got nothing from there.



man the nets are the biggest joke of a franchise of all-time :oldlol:

[Carbine]

Instead of looking at 5 screenshots you could…..actually watch the games? Lol. Your takes reek of box score reading and cliche narratives that aren’t really based in anything factual.

Never watched a game of basketball in my life. All I see are
box score numbers, which is why Duncan is my favorite player.

[ShawkFactory]

Instead of looking at 5 screenshots you could…..actually watch the games? Lol. Your takes reek of box score reading and cliche narratives that aren’t really based in anything factual.

Because he disagrees with you?

[tontoz]

https://twitter.com/ThePosterzone/status/1351652900024557571?s=20


Notice he doesn't mention how rarely KD was doubled compared to Steph. He didn't even address the topic he just tried to sidestep it.

[tpols]

Because he disagrees with you?

He's disagreeing with reality. The fact is Curry was far more heavily doubled than Durant, especially by Cleveland in the Finals. Whose whole strategy was to trap the shit out of curry. You guys are exposing yourselves in this thread.

[tpols]

he's unguardable

7-foot lanky bastard that can shoot over any contest from any wing player ever


Durant's coming off a series in which he was completely locked down and swept. That... suggests he's not unguardable.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

he's unguardable

7-foot lanky bastard that can shoot over any contest from any wing player ever



he proved it again last year without kyrie giving the champion bucks a harder challenge than the far more talented suns - he almost beat them by himself with bruce brown and the rest of the nets shitting the bed - and of course kyrie's mentally and physically fragile self wasn't playing in the series so he got nothing from there.



man the nets are the biggest joke of a franchise of all-time :oldlol:

DuSwept has never been unguardable especially when it matters most. Go look at his stats in the playoffs when teams actually hone in on him. Isoball is easy as **** to defend. Sure you can put up gaudy numbers, but you're not going to win when you face a team that gameplans.

[dankok8]

Curry totally dominates KD in impact stats like RAPM, PIPM and RAPTOR. His gravity also totally opens up the court for his teammates. And in terms of basic box scores he and KD were basically neck and neck during their time in GS. For those reasons, I'd go with Curry but it's close enough to be called 1a/1b because KD is better in iso situations which is valuable in key playoff moments.

[Hey Yo]

Notice he doesn't mention how rarely KD was doubled compared to Steph. He didn't even address the topic he just tried to sidestep it.

The way some people talk about it, you'd think most of his FGM were from uncontested open looks. As if all he had to do was catch and shoot... no creation needed whatsoever from him.

There's definitely some exaggeration to it.

[FKAri]

Curry totally dominates KD in impact stats like RAPM, PIPM and RAPTOR. His gravity also totally opens up the court for his teammates. And in terms of basic box scores he and KD were basically neck and neck during their time in GS. For those reasons, I'd go with Curry but it's close enough to be called 1a/1b because KD is better in iso situations which is valuable in key playoff moments.

Curry's impact is enabled by the team. The whole team and their system should get credit for that. Not just him. Of course the biggest factor is mainly due to his incredible shooting and secondarily because he's an excellent playmaker. Then you add an all time shooter in Klay which gives him even more room to work with. But there's one more thing that you add and it becomes the straw that breaks the opposing defense's back. That being Draymond. He has the uncanny ability to play point forward in 4 on 3 situations allowing the Warriors to bust any traps that teams would want to throw at Curry. This last thing is so important to the Warriors. Because against almost every other team in the league you can trap their star, the ball will swing and the play will fizzle out as your defenders will almost always recover in time. And often the ball will just end up back in the star's hands with the clock dwindling and it'll turn into an iso play. The defenders rarely recover in time vs the Warriors. But make no mistake that Draymond needs Curry a lot more than vice versa.

The thing with Durant is that his success hasn't come from a unique synergestic advantage. In one way that's good. It makes him a more versatile player. But on the other hand his lack of playmaking(which is probably the biggest knock on him as a player) holds him back from ever forming such a synergy with a team. If Curry was a terrible passer out of a double team, the Warriors offense would be much worse.

[red1]

DuSwept has never been unguardable especially when it matters most. Go look at his stats in the playoffs when teams actually hone in on him. Isoball is easy as **** to defend. Sure you can put up gaudy numbers, but you're not going to win when you face a team that gameplans.

he's unguardable he's just not a leader


thats a real thing. leadership.

[red1]

kd is a following ass ho.


the proof is in the pudding. no self-respecting athlete would have done what he did. people tried comparing it to the heat - that's not even remotely CLOSE to the same thing.



he literally joined a 73-win game 7 defending champion 1-possession from repeating team


AFTER he choked a 3-1 lead to that same team that he joined - LOSING TO THAT TEAM IN THAT SAME POSTSEASON



thats the ultimate definition of joining the bandwagon

[tontoz]

The way some people talk about it, you'd think most of his FGM were from uncontested open looks. As if all he had to do was catch and shoot... no creation needed whatsoever from him.

There's definitely some exaggeration to it.


When he played Boston there was another defender waiting for him when took someone off the dribble. That wasn't the case with GS.

How often do you think he was this open in the half court with OKC or the nets?


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211237.jpg

[red1]

Durant's coming off a series in which he was completely locked down and swept. That... suggests he's not unguardable.

yeah I dont know what his deal was this year


that was great to watch :oldlol:

[red1]

I would bet any money that he would light the celtics up if they played again.

[Hey Yo]

When he played Boston there was another defender waiting for him when took someone off the dribble. That wasn't the case with GS.

How often do you think he was this open in the half court with OKC or the nets?


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220531-211237.jpg
All I'm saying is that there's definitely some exaggeration to how many open - uncontested FG's he made / attempted in the 2017 Finals.

[RRR3]

Look at the votes for Durant, a collection of the biggest morons on ISH :lol


Meanwhile multiple high IQ posters have voted for Curry.

[tontoz]

All I'm saying is that there's definitely some exaggeration to how many open - uncontested FG's he made / attempted in the 2017 Finals.

They aren't going to leave him open for long. If he is open and someone passes him the ball then obviously a defender is going to rotate to him. They aren't going to leave him open even when he has the ball like they do with Green.

[Phoenix]

My opinion is that the Warriors get to the finals in 2017 and 2018 even if KD isn't there. Maybe they split it with the Cavs those years, who knows. All I know is take Curry off that team and insert KD, they aren't getting to the finals. Make of that whatever you will as to who the 'better' player is.

[warriorfan]

Curry's impact is enabled by the team. The whole team and their system should get credit for that. Not just him. Of course the biggest factor is mainly due to his incredible shooting and secondarily because he's an excellent playmaker. Then you add an all time shooter in Klay which gives him even more room to work with. But there's one more thing that you add and it becomes the straw that breaks the opposing defense's back. That being Draymond. He has the uncanny ability to play point forward in 4 on 3 situations allowing the Warriors to bust any traps that teams would want to throw at Curry. This last thing is so important to the Warriors. Because against almost every other team in the league you can trap their star, the ball will swing and the play will fizzle out as your defenders will almost always recover in time. And often the ball will just end up back in the star's hands with the clock dwindling and it'll turn into an iso play. The defenders rarely recover in time vs the Warriors. But make no mistake that Draymond needs Curry a lot more than vice versa.

The thing with Durant is that his success hasn't come from a unique synergestic advantage. In one way that's good. It makes him a more versatile player. But on the other hand his lack of playmaking(which is probably the biggest knock on him as a player) holds him back from ever forming such a synergy with a team. If Curry was a terrible passer out of a double team, the Warriors offense would be much worse.

The statistics don’t back up your bullshit narrative :lol

[hold this L]

My opinion is that the Warriors get to the finals in 2017 and 2018 even if KD isn't there. Maybe they split it with the Cavs those years, who knows. All I know is take Curry off that team and insert KD, they aren't getting to the finals. Make of that whatever you will as to who the 'better' player is.
The question for 2018 is not the Cavs, they destroy that team Kyrie-less team. The question for 2018 is the Rockets. You have a pick em series between GSW/CAV in 2017 and GSW/HOU in 2018. We'll never know, but I'm thankful that with KD both were certain wins.

[red1]

Im sorry I gotta go curry now


I changed my mind.


no 2017 warrior ring without kd

no 2015, 2017, 2018, 2022 ring without curry



its obvious now.

[Johnny32]

My opinion is that the Warriors get to the finals in 2017 and 2018 even if KD isn't there. Maybe they split it with the Cavs those years, who knows. All I know is take Curry off that team and insert KD, they aren't getting to the finals. Make of that whatever you will as to who the 'better' player is.

i'd bet cavs in 17. i had bos though so. if kyrie leaves i'd take gsw in 6 in 18. lebron goes 2015 on em with much better efficiency.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

I would bet any money that he would light the celtics up if they played again.

No he wouldn't. His playstyle and the playstyle of the BKN is easy to gameplan against. There is nothing for Boston to worry about. Nearly every single player they had on the court could out-muscle KD and throw him around and that was exactly what happened and he couldn't cope. He would have to literally shoot over all of them on supreme efficiency for him to even stand a chance. He never made Boston work nor did he ever bring them to exhaustion. By the time game 5 and 6 came around the finals, the Celtics had lost all their leg from constantly having to chase the Warriors players on defense despite them playing amazing defense all series long.

Play that series again sure the nets might win 1 or 2 games but they still lose 9/10 times.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

The question for 2018 is not the Cavs, they destroy that team Kyrie-less team. The question for 2018 is the Rockets. You have a pick em series between GSW/CAV in 2017 and GSW/HOU in 2018. We'll never know, but I'm thankful that with KD both were certain wins.

2018 against the rockets was not a certain win. KD almost cost us the series with his ball hogging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMPXdADTwV8

He kept freezing out Steph and Klay. If not for Klay's heroics in game 6, we lose in 6. If not for Steph's heroics in game 7 we lose in 7 even with Houston bricking 27 straight 3's. People forget how many warrior fans were screaming that KD was killing the offense and playing right into the Houston gameplan.

[Wally450]

Durant was the better player, but Curry was more important to the team's success.

[warriorfan]

Durant was the better player, but Curry was more important to the team's success.

This make zero sense.

The first and foremost priority of a player is to make their team better.

If another player makes his teams better than another player….he’s the better player. Full stop.

[Axe]

Curry becomes successful only if he has bonafide all-star teammates and rising stars surrounding him, composing of some of the most familiar ones in his team playing for most of the season. Ridiculously stacked af. In fact, three years ago they swept the trailblazers in the wcf despite missing durant and cousins for the whole series. Yet those hurdles didn't stop them at all from being heavily favored again coming in the 2019 finals.

Without 100% of the main core tho his team can't even get to the playoffs. Just like last year during the services of oubre jr., bazemore and 2nd pick wiseman. Regardless durant shouldn't have come there anymore since they already made the finals twice without him, thrice if this year counts. Oh, and he's also the same guy from the thunder who nearly put the 73-win team on ropes during the 2016 wcf.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Curry becomes successful only if he has bonafide all-star teammates and rising stars surrounding him, composing of some of the most familiar ones in his team playing for most of the season. Ridiculously stacked af. In fact, three years ago they swept the trailblazers in the wcf despite missing durant and cousins for the whole series. Yet those hurdles didn't stop them at all from being heavily favored again coming in the 2019 finals.

Without 100% of the main core tho his team can't even get to the playoffs. Just like last year during the services of oubre jr., bazemore and 2nd pick wiseman. Regardless durant shouldn't have come there anymore since they already made the finals twice without him, thrice if this year counts. Oh, and he's also the same guy from the thunder who nearly put the 73-win team on ropes during the 2016 wcf.


shut the fu ck up you shit flinging baboon :lol

[tontoz]

Curry becomes successful only if he has bonafide all-star teammates and rising stars surrounding him, composing of some of the most familiar ones in his team playing for most of the season. Ridiculously stacked af. In fact, three years ago they swept the trailblazers in the wcf despite missing durant and cousins for the whole series. Yet those hurdles didn't stop them at all from being heavily favored again coming in the 2019 finals.

Without 100% of the main core tho his team can't even get to the playoffs. Just like last year during the services of oubre jr., bazemore and 2nd pick wiseman. Regardless durant shouldn't have come there anymore since they already made the finals twice without him, thrice if this year counts. Oh, and he's also the same guy from the thunder who nearly put the 73-win team on ropes during the 2016 wcf.


Stephs current teammates have 4 All-NBA teams combined for their careers, 3 of which are 3rd team. If that is what you call stacked then what do you have to say about the Lakers roster which didn't even make the "loser's bracket"?

:roll:

[Wally450]

This make zero sense.

The first and foremost priority of a player is to make their team better.

If another player makes his teams better than another player….he’s the better player. Full stop.


Curry himself has said that Durant was the better overall player during those Warriors runs with Durant. But looking into the numbers, the records weighed better in favor of having Curry over having Durant.

[warriorfan]

Curry himself has said that Durant was the better overall player during those Warriors runs with Durant. But looking into the numbers, the records weighed better in favor of having Curry over having Durant.

If Curry said that he was literally just being politically correct. Steph understands that it doesn’t matter who says who is better. He will be the bigger man and not start drama or give KD more ammunition to come back at him later. He’s the bigger man and this is directly linked to his long term success and the winning culture of the warriors.

[Axe]

shut the fu ck up you shit flinging baboon :lol
Lol truth hurts sorry.

[Axe]

Stephs current teammates have 4 All-NBA teams combined for their careers, 3 of which are 3rd team. If that is what you call stacked then what do you have to say about the Lakers roster which didn't even make the "loser's bracket"?

:roll:
Idk uncle but some things are for sure. Those guys from the lakers are already old af, come from different teams and have a dysfunctional system. While the dubs core have been together since 2013 and with steve kerr pioneering their culture since 2014, have been to the finals for a long time now.

[tontoz]

Idk uncle but some things are for sure. Those guys from the lakers are already old af, come from different teams and have a dysfunctional system. While the dubs core have been together since 2013 and with steve kerr pioneering their culture since 2014, have been to the finals for a long time now.


Sounds like you can't make up your mind what stacked means. The system/roster continuity is a completely different subject from the talent level of the players (All-Star appearances/All NBA teams).

FYI Russ is only a year older than Dray and Klay.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

If Curry said that he was literally just being politically correct. Steph understands that it doesn’t matter who says who is better. He will be the bigger man and not start drama or give KD more ammunition to come back at him later. He’s the bigger man and this is directly linked to his long term success and the winning culture of the warriors.


You could literally see how freely and happy the dubs played in 2019 once KD went down. They didn't have to worry about hurting his feelings and making him happy anymore or him being salty because Steph and Klay were taking shots within the flow of the offense. Dray snapped at KD because for 2 years they all had t walk on pins and needles to make sure KD was happy and had to hear bullshit about him being the best etc and them not being able to win without him, and being asked day after day about KD leaving.

[Axe]

Sounds like you can't make up your mind what stacked means. The system/roster continuity is a completely different subject from the talent level of the players (All-Star appearances/All NBA teams).

FYI Russ is only a year older than Dray and Klay.
But the warriors had five 2018 all-stars during the '18-19 season. And not all those who appear talented are instantly successful in the playoffs. Case in point t-mac lol.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Lol truth hurts sorry.

rent free. Also bro how do you have only 5k less posts in 2 years than Warriorfan has in 12 years of posting?

Lets also not forget about your dozen alts.

What was your original name again simon?

[hold this L]

Curry himself has said that Durant was the better overall player during those Warriors runs with Durant. But looking into the numbers, the records weighed better in favor of having Curry over having Durant.
So did Klay and Kerr. That's what happens when you have an insecure, emotional lesbian that is on a 1 year deal every single season. Gotta take care of the fragility.

[Axe]

rent free. Also bro how do you have only 5k less posts in 2 years than Warriorfan has in 12 years of posting?

Lets also not forget about your dozen alts.

What was your original name again simon?
Stop being so butthurt, man. Also stay in topic.

[Phoenix]

The question for 2018 is not the Cavs, they destroy that team Kyrie-less team. The question for 2018 is the Rockets. You have a pick em series between GSW/CAV in 2017 and GSW/HOU in 2018. We'll never know, but I'm thankful that with KD both were certain wins.

True, I'd still take the Warriors over the Rockets in 2018 without KD. As a poster said above, your offense was compromised a bit by how KD was playing that series. That, and between CP3 getting injured and James Harden doing his annual playoff underperformance

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Stop being so butthurt, man. Also stay in topic.

No lets stay on this topic Simon. 25k posts in 2 years :lol :lol :lol

[Axe]

No lets stay on this topic Simon. 25k posts in 2 years :lol :lol :lol
Seething.

[tontoz]

But the warriors had five 2018 all-stars during the '18-19 season. And not all those who appear talented are instantly successful in the playoffs. Case in point t-mac lol.

Are you seriously counting Iggy as an All Star? He made one All-Star game in his career and that was in 2012.

:facepalm

[Axe]

Are you seriously counting Iggy as an All Star? He made one All-Star game in his career and that was in 2012.

:facepalm
Nope uncle. By '2018 all-stars', i meant these guys. :oldlol:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkKuP4q2Fcnw9qcdT8V_pHXdJPVzau3 DuM_Q&usqp=CAU

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Read a stat somewhere claiming Steph saw ~70% more double teams.

Combine that kinda defensive attention with his range (accuracy aside, this also creates spacing) and I think its a no-brainer. KD simply capitalized on the defense Curry drew, and to his credit, put the ball in the basket. Casuals look at Durant's PPG in those finals and eat that shit up. Real hoopheads contextualize numbers though.

[tontoz]

Nope uncle. By '2018 all-stars', i meant these guys. :oldlol:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkKuP4q2Fcnw9qcdT8V_pHXdJPVzau3 DuM_Q&usqp=CAU


Cousins didn't play his first game with GS until 2019.

[Axe]

Cousins didn't play his first game with GS until 2019.
Sure. But the warriors would have three-peated if he was also healthy and productive, no?

[tontoz]

Sure. But the warriors would have three-peated if he was also healthy and productive, no?

If they were healthy they would have 3 peated without Cousins lol. He was coming off a serious injury and missed most of the regular season and most of the playoffs.

Cousins was basically irrelevant. They picked him up cheaply for a 1 yr $5 million deal. Any team could have picked him up.

[Axe]

If they were healthy they would have 3 peated without Cousins lol. He was coming off a serious injury and missed most of the regular season and most of the playoffs.

Cousins was basically irrelevant. They picked him up cheaply for a 1 yr $5 million deal. Any team could have picked him up.
Well yeah. But he's still considered a true center under kerr's death lineup, who he even called the 'best-five man unit in the league' during the 2019 playoffs. Also helped in saving the warriors from losing game five of the finals.

[Shooter]

For some reason I always thought it was KD but now I'm not so sure. 2017 could be Curry but I don't think 2018 is Curry.

[Wally450]

So did Klay and Kerr. That's what happens when you have an insecure, emotional lesbian that is on a 1 year deal every single season. Gotta take care of the fragility.

I completely agree with that, but in 2017 and 18, was Durant not considered by many to be the best basketball player in the world? Sports shows, radio, basketball forums, most considered Durant to be the best player in the league.

[StrongLurk]

KD and Lebron were clearly above Steph in the 17/18 finals, and KD was clearly the best player in the league for the 2019 season.

Honestly people just hate KD more than Curry so they will rank Curry higher.

[warriorfan]

I completely agree with that, but in 2017 and 18, was Durant not considered by many to be the best basketball player in the world? Sports shows, radio, basketball forums, most considered Durant to be the best player in the league.

This is a great post below, and it’s quite relevant in reference to the one above


No, my point was that just because someone was a player or a coach, their opinion doesn't mean shit. And it may be an accurate opinion, or it may not be accurate. My point was that using someone else's opinion to strengthen your argument is a dogshit way of viewing the world and it really just means you don't know enough on the subject to prove your point, so you're appealing to authority. And the "authority" could be wrong af. It's intellectual laziness at absolute best to rely on someone else's opinion to form an argument, regardless of who they are. If you want to take them at their word because you don't know enough, that's fine and reasonable, but you shouldn't then be pivoting from believing them to then using their words as an argument, when the only reason you believed them in the first place was you not knowing enough.



They're an interesting case. Steph is the GOAT offensive player imo, and Draymond is one of the best defenders we've ever seen during certain stretches. There's a lot to unpack here, more than I'm qualified to do.


The argument that “well everyone back then thought x…” isn’t an argument at all. People are wrong all the time, in fact you could probably say most people are probably wrong about most things especially at the time when they don’t have time to look back at things in retrospect. Prisoners of the moment.

And it’s a cliche example but check out 1940 Germany. Millions there fully believed they were in the right at the time….So does that mean when we look back on what happened and if we disagree with their actions…..our opinion is less qualified than theirs? They were actually in the right?


Don’t take other peoples word for gospel and use it as evidence. Use your own critical thinking skills backed up by facts and examples to determine a conclusion. Don’t just take others’ word for it.

[tontoz]

In the 2017/18 seasons Curry was +12.6 per 48

http://www.82games.com/1718/17GSW1.HTM#onoff

Durant was +2.0

http://www.82games.com/1718/17GSW10.HTM#onoff

[Phoenix]

Read a stat somewhere claiming Steph saw ~70% more double teams.

Combine that kinda defensive attention with his range (accuracy aside, this also creates spacing) and I think its a no-brainer. KD simply capitalized on the defense Curry drew, and to his credit, put the ball in the basket. Casuals look at Durant's PPG in those finals and eat that shit up. Real hoopheads contextualize numbers though.

Yeah, Steph has much more gravity and you just know he's looking for( and only needs) a split second of daylight to get off a 3. As much havoc as he causes on-ball when he's fishing for his shot off the dribble, the defense goes into a tail-spin when he's off-ball because he's perpetually in motion and you simply can't afford to lose track of him. This automatically frees up others on the floor for shots they simply wouldn't have otherwise.

KD is obviously historically great offensively, but the reality is when he catches the ball in his spots and goes into iso mode, good chance is you're at his mercy but the rest of the team is often in spectator mode. That kind of team offense is easier to defend and why the Warriors record was worse when KD was the head of the snake and Steph was out injured, while when KD was out they barely missed a beat record-wise with Steph. He has always been the engine of that offense and doing a plug and play swap between Barnes and KD basically made them unbeatable, but they would have always been a threat to win regardless( when healthy).

[Nb1]

Every single person in the world agreed Durant was by far the better player. By this narrative Klay is better than Steph, bc when Klay wasnt around Steph didnt even make the playoffs lol

[Axe]

Every single person in the world agreed Durant was by far the better player. By this narrative Klay is better than Steph, bc when Klay wasnt around Steph didnt even make the playoffs lol
:roll:

[Stephonit]

Every single person in the world agreed Durant was by far the better player. By this narrative Klay is better than Steph, bc when Klay wasnt around Steph didnt even make the playoffs lol

I guess I must be one of your transcendent alien overlords because I certainly didn't. You can tell who the lemmings are by those who believed the schlock peddled by the media.

Durant probably deserved to be considered the better player in 2018 because Curry was out with injury for a part of it but for the same reason Curry's case for 2017 and 2019 is better.

[tpols]

I completely agree with that, but in 2017 and 18, was Durant not considered by many to be the best basketball player in the world? Sports shows, radio, basketball forums, most considered Durant to be the best player in the league.

No they did not.

In 2016 Curry, LeBron, Kawhi, and even his own teammate Westbrook placed ahead of Durant in MVP voting.

In 2017 Curry, LeBron, Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, Wall, and AD all placed ahead of Durant.

And on and on. He was an obvious superstar but "everybody crowning him the best player" when he joined the dubs? That's a flat out lie. If anything he looked like a scrub after the 2016 WCF debacle and people were low on him.

[Axe]

Durant probably deserved to be considered the better player in 2018 because Curry was out with injury for a part of it but for the same reason Curry's case for 2017 and 2019 is better.
The team didn't need kevin durant to make the finals last decade. They needed him tho against kawhi leonard and lebron james.

[Phoenix]

Every single person in the world agreed Durant was by far the better player. By this narrative Klay is better than Steph, bc when Klay wasnt around Steph didnt even make the playoffs lol

Are the Warriors making the playoffs removing Steph and making Klay the main guy?

[PeroAntic]

KD is clearly a better player in a vacuum. Hes pretty much the perfect basketball player so hes obviously better by conventional criteria. But basketball isn't played in a vacuum. Curry's impact on his teams and the game in general is bigger because of his unique skillset.

Voted Durant because when hes on top of his game nobody is as good as him. But on aggregate over a longer period of time, Curry is more conducive to silverware and it shows.

[WhiteKyrie]

It’s obviously Durant. That’s why Steph went to OKC via free agency

[999Guy]

KD is clearly a better player in a vacuum. Hes pretty much the perfect basketball player so hes obviously better by conventional criteria. But basketball isn't played in a vacuum. Curry's impact on his teams and the game in general is bigger because of his unique skillset.

Voted Durant because when hes on top of his game nobody is as good as him. But on aggregate over a longer period of time, Curry is more conducive to silverware and it shows.
Kevin Durant, perfect basketball player? I would hate to play pickup with any of you. Would love to play against.

[PeroAntic]

Kevin Durant, perfect basketball player? I would hate to play pickup with any of you. Would love to play against.

That combination of length, athleticism, shooting and handling is out of this world. Lets not pretend Curry is the more naturally gifted player.

[Carbine]

Who has actually been just as good as they were before after suffering a blown Achilles in their 30s anyway?

Durant at his peak was the perfect offensive and defensive basketball player in the sense of he could literally do everything in the league he played in. He played center on defense and did it well for stretches in the playoffs. He got switched off on PGs and had many good reps, for example.

He has obviously lost a step since the Achilles injury. Expecting him to be at his peak as an individual player afterwards is again, agenda driven and not logical.

[hold this L]

Who has actually been just as good as they were before after suffering a blown Achilles in their 30s anyway?

Durant at his peak was the perfect offensive and defensive basketball player in the sense of he could literally do everything in the league he played in. He played center on defense and did it well for stretches in the playoffs. He got switched off on PGs and had many good reps, for example.

He has obviously lost a step since the Achilles injury. Expecting him to be at his peak as an individual player afterwards is again, agenda driven and not logical.

KD has never played as a 5 in his entire career. Way too skinny and would get bullied, on top of that he has never boxed out in his life for rebounds.

[Carbine]

Sure he has. I don't need you to confirm if he has or hasn't. Thank you though.

https://youtu.be/tDz09EUheCQ

Look at Durant get bullied there.

[hold this L]

Sure he has. I don't need you to confirm if he has or hasn't. Thank you though.

https://youtu.be/tDz09EUheCQ

Look at Durant get bullied there.
That was for a few minutes. The small ball was Draymond at the 5 and KD at the 4 or an actual big starting.

[Atlantis]

KD is clearly a better player in a vacuum. Hes pretty much the perfect basketball player so hes obviously better by conventional criteria. But basketball isn't played in a vacuum. Curry's impact on his teams and the game in general is bigger because of his unique skillset.

Voted Durant because when hes on top of his game nobody is as good as him. But on aggregate over a longer period of time, Curry is more conducive to silverware and it shows.

I think this is the consensus