How much various athletes lost by taking pay in the form of Bitcoin.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206222302200350.jpeg

[RRR3]

Inb4 Slowgon tries to defend this :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Trevor Lawrence disputes this for the record. He says his entire signing bonus wasn’t paid in Bitcoin as reported only a portion of it as a publicity stunt when he partnered with a crypto company. He lost money just not that much.

Anyway….


Id still hold it if I were them. It’s obviously coming back. I never let myself go all in but if I did now would be the time.

[warriorfan]

RRR3 is invested into MomCoin. He doesn’t get a great return but he did put nothing into it.

[Shogon]

Inb4 Slowgon tries to defend this :oldlol:

You don't know shit about the history of money, you don't know shit about the history of paper currency, and you don't know shit about economics. Nor do you know shit about cryptography. You can probably spare us the peanut gallery.

[Shogon]

Anyways most of the athletes that are in on the 'crypto craze' probably don't know shit about any of this either, they're just idiots partaking in the in pumping up bubbles, as is usually the case with people in general after each Bitcoin halving.

But Bitcoin is ultimately a deflationary force diametrically opposed to an infinitely inflating one.

The only remaining factor, no matter how rocky the road from point A to point B, is... time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlN2nel5HI

Bitcoin is dead... again.

[FultzNationRISE]

Anyways most of the athletes that are in on the 'crypto craze' probably don't know shit about any of this either, they're just idiots partaking in the in pumping up bubbles, as is usually the case with people in general after each Bitcoin halving.

But Bitcoin is ultimately a deflationary force diametrically opposed to an infinitely inflating one.

The only remaining factor, no matter how rocky the road from point A to point B, is... time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlN2nel5HI

Bitcoin is dead... again.


Therefore a democratized/decentralized form of currency is sustainable in the long run?

The public itself is informed and proactive enough to safeguard against eventual manipulation/corruption/abolishment?

PM me, little boy.........

[Shogon]

Therefore a democratized/decentralized form of currency is sustainable in the long run?

The public itself is informed and proactive enough to safeguard against eventual manipulation/corruption/abolishment?

PM me, little boy.........


Good thing you don't know about Bitcoin consensus mechanism intricacies and you're just talking nonsensical gibberish. It's essentially impossible to brainwash and manipulate the necessary percentage of people in order to do the type of thing you're alluding to... especially the type of people that are helping the Bitcoin network operate such as node operators and miners.

The scale of required social manipulation is essentially impossible.

That aside, there is no PM feature, you are beyond well aware that is not currently enabled, shut the **** up *****. What the **** is your problem? You are the most weirdly obsessive person on this website and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Is this the attention that you want? The ****.... congrats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeTwwgm6Vsc

[AlternativeAcc.]

Anyways most of the athletes that are in on the 'crypto craze' probably don't know shit about any of this either, they're just idiots partaking in the in pumping up bubbles, as is usually the case with people in general after each Bitcoin halving.

But Bitcoin is ultimately a deflationary force diametrically opposed to an infinitely inflating one.

The only remaining factor, no matter how rocky the road from point A to point B, is... time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlN2nel5HI

Bitcoin is dead... again.

So because bitcoin is decentralized and limited supply it must be THE form of currency that people use and must have a high value?

Do you actually think Bitcoin will be the currency everyone uses in the future? Because now it's just a speculative commodity.

[Kblaze8855]

Personally I don’t care if anyone uses it I just need it to bounce back when I buy low which so far it always has. I’m not interested in it’s value as currency. I can exchange it for currency which works for me so far.

[FultzNationRISE]

Personally I don’t care if anyone uses it I just need it to bounce back when I buy low which so far it always has. I’m not interested in it’s value as currency. I can exchange it for currency which works for me so far.

PM me.

[Shogon]

So because bitcoin is decentralized and limited supply it must be THE form of currency that people use and must have a high value?

Bitcoin's inception can never be replicated ever again. The circumstances of which it came to be are quite literally impossible to replicate. It was announced two months prior to the launch of the network/protocol, it was not premined, afawk Satoshi never 'cashed out' and the coins circulated as 'valueless' for a year and a half. Nobody was paying attention. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. Again, this can't be replicated. It is 1 of 1. It is a living, breathing, adapting and evolving network. The network of money. The internet of money. We can no more create a second Bitcoin than we can create a second internet. The genie is out.

Bitcoin isn't about get rich quick nor is it about Bitcoin itself "being high value." I am well aware that most people treat it as such, and as such, as I have disclosed on here many many times to the point of exhaustion, you are going to see these run ups and sell offs many many times because most people that are involved don't know what they're getting themselves into and they're just degenerate gamblers that couldn't care less about Bitcoin or the core principles behind it. The day will come, eventually, where these bubble ups and pops will stop. We're just not there yet. As more and more countries other than El Salvador adopt it, that day will come.

Bitcoin is about freedom from government to steal your money without consent, to keep it short and sweet. If you memorize your private key, literally nobody on Earth can take it from you even with force... without your consent.

IDK what happened to the US where we lost sight of this, but the country was literally founded as a result of and one of the core ideas being no taxation without representation.

The problem is government, as it always always is.




Do you actually think Bitcoin will be the currency everyone uses in the future? Because now it's just a speculative commodity.

Yes, I do. I probably won't live to see it so I will be mocked relentlessly by ignorant people until the day I die when I try to explain this to them, but yes I absolutely do. The internet was the first step in people being able to communicate in a fluid way and share information freely 'without' government control. Bitcoin much in the same way will be the free flowing and fluid exchange of value in which the government can't control. They will eventually be much more resistant to it than they were the Internet itself, but the idea is planted and the genie is out.

I have seen more talk about inflation and more people being educated on the subject than my entire lifetime including the 2008 financial crisis which resulted in more unemployment and desperation than we have seen thus far. What we are seeing now is at least in part a continuation of that, but I digress. The point being people are finally starting to BEGIN to get educated on the subject.

Nature/math/whatever you want to call it... will not be denied. Fiat currencies always fail. And they always fail because governments can't help themselves. And governments can't help themselves because people are unwilling to accept the fact that life isn't fair. Bitcoin fixes this.

[FultzNationRISE]

Good thing you don't know about Bitcoin consensus mechanism intricacies and you're just talking nonsensical gibberish. It's essentially impossible to brainwash and manipulate the necessary percentage of people in order to do the type of thing you're alluding to... especially the type of people that are helping the Bitcoin network operate such as node operators and miners.



Stopped reading here because it made me laugh too hard :yaohappy:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Personally I don’t care if anyone uses it I just need it to bounce back when I buy low which so far it always has. I’m not interested in it’s value as currency. I can exchange it for currency which works for me so far.

It's a really shitty currency, but can be a good speculative investment if timed right. Most people who buy bitcoin have your mindset.

Shogon seems to be convinced it's the be all end all to currency which is incredibly strange.

[Shogon]

Stopped reading here because it made me laugh too hard :yaohappy:

That's because you literally haven't the first clue of how the Bitcoin network operates.

[Shogon]

It's a really shitty currency, but can be a good speculative investment if timed right. Most people who buy bitcoin have your mindset.

Shogon seems to be convinced it's the be all end all to currency which is incredibly strange.

It's a shitty currency? Tell me have you ever used the lightning network? Oh wait, I know for a 'fact' you haven't for you to make such a statement.

Tick tock, next block mother ****er.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's a shitty currency? Tell me have you ever used the lightning network? Oh wait, I know for a 'fact' you haven't for you to make such a statement.

Tick tock, next block mother ****er.

Have you ever taken a payment in something and 6 months later it's half as valuable?

Definition of a shitty currency.

And yes I've traded bitcoin. It's not remotely the quickest transaction in the crypto world. Your point is that it's quicker now to trade its a good currency? :oldlol:

[Shogon]

Have you ever taken a payment in something and 6 months later it's half as valuable?

Definition of a shitty currency.

No, a currency exists to exchange value on the spot. And if you actually read my post I already explained to you why the volatility exists, but I guess skipping over that and ignoring it is easier. The volatility won't end until true mass adoption occurs and the amount of value that has flowed into Bitcoin has at least 20xed from where it is at now.

People are still treating it like a casino. This won't always be the case. There is nothing inherent to the protocol that results in wild volatility. That is all psychological that will cease at some point.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No, a currency exists to exchange value on the spot. And if you actually read my post I already explained to you why the volatility exists, but I guess skipping over that and ignoring it is easier. The volatility won't end until true mass adoption occurs and the amount of value that has flowed into Bitcoin has at least 10xed from where it is at now.
Trading bitcoin is slow and inconvenient compared to other forms of currency, so no

If somebody gives me bitcoin I have to go through several hoops to turn it into fiat. (A real currency)

If somebody PayPals me 1000 dollars, I have a 1000 dollars. Pretty simple.

A currency that can fall 50% in a month isn't a real form of currency, its a speculative investment

[FultzNationRISE]

What's funny is I looked into whether you can short bitcoin a few months ago, which it turns out you can, but I didnt have the money to make it worth while. But it was clearly due for a correction, even people who own plenty of it and are bullish on it longterm should have seen this coming and done so as a hedge. Would have doubled the capital in their short position and recouped the losses from their holdings while other people throw fists at the sky.

Unfortunately for me I've got significantly more brains than capital at this point :lol

I try and start a lil group for people who wanna get da knowledgez, ya know, help people who have capital to grow it, and nobody's interested :confusedshrug:

It's fascinating tbh. Could have dropped 9 bucks at my Patreon for some of my signature keen perspective, and timed those btc plays a lil more favorably.

Theres a reason all these rich dudes in the World Economic Forum have been growing their wealth continuously since getting together in Davos years ago. Those dudes really understand the value of information and how to use it, and the importance of having connections to it.

Not everybody does.

[Shogon]

Trading bitcoin is slow and inconvenient compared to other forms of currency, so no

If somebody gives me bitcoin I have to go through several hoops to turn it into fiat. (A real currency)

If somebody PayPals me 1000 dollars, I have a 1000 dollars. Pretty simple.

A currency that can fall 50% in a month isn't a real form of currency, its a speculative investment

As I said, clearly you have never used lightning.

Bitcoin settles permanently at the base layer faster than any network on Earth including Visa which takes like 1-3 months.

[FultzNationRISE]

That's because you literally haven't the first clue of how the Bitcoin network operates.

This is incorrect, I have some basic knowledge despite a lack of nuanced expertise.

HOWEVER... one needn't be an expert in the mechanical workings of a punch-in-the-nuts machine either to know how successful such a thing would be long term.

Sometimes an understanding of human nature is more central to accurate analysis.

[AlternativeAcc.]

As I said, clearly you have never used lightning.

Bitcoin settles permanently at the base layer faster than any network on Earth including Visa which takes like 1-3 months.

I dont care about the speed of bitcoin transactions.. that it literally pointless

Something as unstable as bitcoin makes for a shitty form of currency... period. Only a fool would argue otherwise.

[FKAri]

Therefore a democratized/decentralized form of currency is sustainable in the long run?

The public itself is informed and proactive enough to safeguard against eventual manipulation/corruption/abolishment?

PM me, little boy.........

Public isn't informed or proactive enough to sustain a democracy either.

[Shogon]

This is incorrect, I have some basic knowledge despite a lack of nuanced expertise.

HOWEVER... one needn't be an expert in the mechanical workings of a punch-in-the-nuts machine either to know how successful such a thing would be long term.

Sometimes an understanding of human nature is more central to accurate analysis.

Ok so what is the percentage of hash power that needs to agree and signal for an upgrade/change in the protocol to enact a fork? I know you don't know the answer. The answer is 90%. So when's the last time the government or the media could get 90% of people to agree on anything, nevermind 90% of people that would be intelligent enough to 'keep the Bitcoin network running'?

Because that's what you were doing all of your silly and ignorant laughing about earlier in this thread. I know, I just told you, and you still don't understand.

It's ok.

You don't need to understand the how's.

You don't need to understand the why's.

Necessity and math will win.

[FultzNationRISE]

Public isn't informed or proactive enough to sustain a democracy either.


Indeed it is not.

[FultzNationRISE]

Ok so what is the percentage of hash power that needs to agree and signal for an upgrade/change in the protocol to enact a fork? I know you don't know the answer. The answer is 90%. So when's the last time the government or the media could get 90% of people to agree on anything, nevermind the 90% of people that would be intelligent enough to 'keep the Bitcoin network running'?

Because that's what you were doing all of your silly and ignorant laughing about earlier in this thread. I know, I just told you, and you still don't understand.

It's ok.

You don't need to understand the how's.

You don't need to understand the why's.

Necessity and math will win.


I will give a genuine response to your assertion... if you PM me.

I've already discussed more of bitcoin in this thread than it is my general policy to do publicly.

If you wanna have a serious discussion, get at me.

[Shogon]

I dont care about the speed of bitcoin transactions.. that it literally pointless

Something as unstable as bitcoin makes for a shitty form of currency... period. Only a fool would argue otherwise.

You literally just used it being "slow and inconvenient" as a reason it's a "shit currency." And I explained to why your view is false. And then you pivoted to "I don't care about speed."

I explained to you the volatility. And then you rail on about how you don't care because it's "unstable."

You're not here to gain new information. Your view is set in stone.

I don't care if Bitcoin drops below 10k USD, the outcome is inevitable. Tick tock, next block.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This is incorrect, I have some basic knowledge despite a lack of nuanced expertise.

HOWEVER... one needn't be an expert in the mechanical workings of a punch-in-the-nuts machine either to know how successful such a thing would be long term.

Sometimes an understanding of human nature is more central to accurate analysis.

I made a ridiculous amount of money solely based off my understanding of human nature

I bought puts on the s&p 500 as soon as covid became a mainstream constant on the news.. I knew the stock market was gonna crash based off fear and hysteria ... and I cashed in

I then realized soon that the market was gonna shoot up in a similar fashion that it went down, and cashed in even further once the fed lowered rates and started giving out free money.



I am now retired because I was able to press buttons on my phone and follow my intuition on human nature. I didn't follow a single technical chart. The market in the short term is driven off pure human emotion. Especially today where everyone and their moms have instant access to the market.

[Shogon]

The market in the short term is driven off pure human emotion.

This is not true. The market in the short term is completely outside of human control. It is driven by trading algorithms that are mimicking human emotion. A subtle but key difference.

Bots trade back and forth at the damn near speed of light based on published articles that they are constantly scanning for. This is out my depth, so I don't want to lead you down a false path, but that is my understanding. The market is actually out of human control at this point.

[Im Still Ballin]

What the hell is going on in this thr-

https://c.tenor.com/w10YDA0_GeoAAAAC/shrek-donkey.gif

[AlternativeAcc.]

You literally just used it being "slow and inconvenient" as a reason it's a "shit currency." And I explained to why your view is false. And then you pivoted to "I don't care about speed."

I explained to you the volatility. And then you rail on about how you don't care because it's "unstable."

You're not here to gain new information. Your view is set in stone.

I don't care if Bitcoin drops below 10k USD, the outcome is inevitable. Tick tock, next block.

No no, I explained why having to turn bitcoin into fiat is slower than simply receiving fiat in the 1st place.

Explaining the volatility doesn't... get rid of the volatility. I already know why it's volatile. And thats why it'sa shit currency :oldlol:

You're arguing that it's good because you can trade it quickly. Thats your argument right now. :roll:

[FultzNationRISE]

I made a ridiculous amount of money solely based off my understanding of human nature

I bought puts on the s&p 500 as soon as covid became a mainstream constant on the news.. I knew the stock market was gonna crash based off fear and hysteria ... and I cashed in

I then realized soon that the market was gonna shoot up in a similar fashion that it went down, and cashed in even further once the fed lowered rates and started giving out free money.



I am now retired because I was able to press buttons on my phone and follow my intuition on human nature. I didn't follow a single technical chart. The market in the short term is driven off pure human emotion. Especially today where everyone and their moms have instant access to the market.


Yup.

Next question will be what even happens to markets when everybody ‘owns nothing and is happy?’

People will inevitably still have a desire to stay above the fray, but a new approach may be required.

The only constant in life is change and adaptation, and it pays to always stay ahead of the curve.

[Shogon]

No no, I explained why having to turn bitcoin into fiat is slower than simply receiving fiat in the 1st place.

Explaining the volatility doesn't... get rid of the volatility. I already know why it's volatile. And thats why it'sa shit currency :oldlol:

You're arguing that it's good because you can trade it quickly. Thats your argument right now. :roll:

How many years have you been mocking me about this subject now? Get your licks in... I know you took a beating for a while in silence when BTC peaked at 69k USD though I didn't give it to you. You'll have a few more years of being able to beat me up and pretend you understand this subject. Hell, this probably isn't the peak of your laughing and mocking. You have more to enjoy and more hearty laughs to be had, I assume.

Lap it up.

I'll be back. And I'll be humble again. You don't get it.

[RRR3]

How many years have you been mocking me about this subject now? Get your licks in... I know you took a beating for a while in silence when BTC peaked at 69k USD though I didn't give it to you. You'll have a few more years of being able to beat me up and pretend you understand this subject. Hell, this probably isn't the peak of your laughing and mocking. You have more to enjoy and more hearty laughs to be had, I assume.

Lap it up.

I'll be back. And I'll be humble again. You don't get it.
Everyone is laughing at you :oldlol:


Your dumbass probably paid thousands for NFTs :roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

How many years have you been mocking me about this subject now? Get your licks in... I know you took a beating for a while in silence when BTC peaked at 69k USD though I didn't give it to you. You'll have a few more years of being able to beat me up and pretend you understand this subject. Hell, this probably isn't the peak of your laughing and mocking. You have more to enjoy and more hearty laughs to be had, I assume.

Lap it up.

I'll be back. And I'll be humble again. You don't get it.

I think the key difference is I don't pretend to know what the future of money actually looks like. You seem to be completely convinced that bitcoin is the future and nothing can stop it. I think there's a million things that can stop it and government is one of them, or better cyrptocurrencies, or people just losing interest etc.

I dont know what bitcoin is gonna be like in the future, but I know as of right now in 2022, it's nothing but a speculative and highly volatile investment, and by definition that makes it a really really shitty currency.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Everyone is laughing at you :oldlol:


Your dumbass probably paid thousands for NFTs :roll:

If someone gives me bitcoin I'm losing money due to coinbase fees.. and wasting time turning it into fiat

Amazing currency...

[Kblaze8855]

Everyone is laughing at you :oldlol:


Your dumbass probably paid thousands for NFTs :roll:


Really? Long as he’s been in it no way he isn’t up. I searched my text history and found when I was trying to get people I knew in when it was at 3800 and he was in before I was.

What are you laughing at? Him being less ahead than before?

[Shogon]

Really? Long as he’s been in it no way he isn’t up. I searched my text history and found when I was trying to get people I knew in when it was at 3800 and he was in before I was.

What are you laughing at? Him being less ahead than before?

My first thread trying to help people was at $1500 and I was mocked, unsurprisingly, even heavier then.

BTW... as far as NFTs go, and other cryptos, stay away from that shit unless you know you're getting into gambling and you don't care about it other than short term gain.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Really? Long as he’s been in it no way he isn’t up. I searched my text history and found when I was trying to get people I knew in when it was at 3800 and he was in before I was.

What are you laughing at? Him being less ahead than before?

His goal with bitcoin isn't to make money. It's to convince people it's the be all end all of currency and that he knew all along

Keep up bro

[Johnny32]

Unless they sell low...which none of them are going to do because they don't have to...they didn't really lose anything.

[RRR3]

Really? Long as he’s been in it no way he isn’t up. I searched my text history and found when I was trying to get people I knew in when it was at 3800 and he was in before I was.

What are you laughing at? Him being less ahead than before?
If someone paid money for a ****ing jpg of an ugly monkey they should be laughed at.

[AlternativeAcc.]

My first thread trying to help people was at $1500 and I was mocked, unsurprisingly, even heavier then.

BTW... as far as NFTs go, and other cryptos, stay away from that shit unless you know you're getting into gambling and you don't care about it other than short term gain.

So is it currency or something you want to be highly valuable?

You keep going back and forth

Because just being the main fork of currency doesn't guarentee high value per BTC.

[FKAri]

If someone paid money for a ****ing jpg of an ugly monkey they should be laughed at.

It's like owning original artwork. Why would you when you can just get a replica? It's the same concept. I don't understand either, personally.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Unless they sell low...which none of them are going to do because they don't have to...they didn't really lose anything.

They lost time value

They could've just taken their checks in USD and waited for a dip to invest in bitcoin now... so they did lose

[Shogon]

So is it currency or something you want to be highly valuable?

You keep going back and forth

Because just being the main fork of currency doesn't guarentee high value per BTC.


I don't keep going back and forth. The end value is infinite. I am both trying to help people and explain to them that we are still early despite the fact that most of the public knows about Bitcoin by now.

Eventually everything will be priced in Bitcoin. This is an emerging technology.

My primary concern with it is not accruing additional value, although that is obviously a massively added bonus. It's not often that a human being is alive during a time in which an evolution of money is occurring right before their very eyes. In fact, this might be the last time it happens until such a time we move beyond money as a species, if we even last that long.

You're exhausting. You don't have any rational arguments, just purely emotion based. I literally already covered most of what you need to know in this thread, and you skipped over and ignored a lot of it. Good luck.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I don't keep going back and forth. The end value is infinite. I am both trying to help people and explain to them that we are still early despite the fact that most of the public knows about Bitcoin by now.

Eventually everything will be priced in Bitcoin. This is an emerging technology.

My primary concern with it is not accruing additional value, although that is obviously a massively added bonus. It's not often that a human being is alive during a time in which an evolution of money is occurring right before their very eyes. In fact, this might be the last time it happens until such a time we move beyond money as a species, if we even last that long.

You're exhausting. You don't have any rational arguments, just purely emotion based. I literally already covered most of what you need to know in this thread, and you skipped over and ignored a lot of it. Good luck.

So you know everything about the future and nobody else does?

I'm exhausting, and your ego is disgusting.

I dont have rational arguments? You mean like explaining how something highly volatile isn't a good form of currency and having to turn btc into fiat actually wastes time and money? :lol

I'm toying with you and your incredibly fragile ego.

[FultzNationRISE]

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or convince them to be for or against bitcoin.

But anyone who thinks their long term investment strategy might be bolstered by a sophisticated discussion of the factors shaping future economic realities....

Get at me, dawg ;) (patreon.com/tofp)

[Cleverness]

But have they sold their BTC? If not, they may get the last laugh...


Everyone is laughing at you :oldlol:

Your dumbass probably paid thousands for NFTs :roll:

Doubt it. He's a btc maxi; he don't care about shitcoins.

Shogon what do you think of Michael Saylor? He believes in BTC as a store of value more than a currency.. and I think he sees a gov't-regulated stable coin as the future global currency


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhpyJSHx8LI

[Shogon]

But have they sold their BTC? If not, they may get the last laugh...



Doubt it. He's a btc maxi; he don't care about shitcoins.

Shogon what do you think of Michael Saylor? He believes in BTC as a store of value more than a currency.. and I think he sees a gov't-regulated stable coin as the future global currency


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhpyJSHx8LI


Bitcoin doesn't care about him and Bitcoin doesn't care about me or you or whatever the **** else. That's what I think about him.

As far as him not seeing it as a currency... he either ignorantly believes that or he believes it actually will be a widely adopted global currency but isn't going to come out and start preaching down with the USD and US Government when he has so much to lose in doing so and would be targeted so hard. There is no upside to him publicly proclaiming such things.

[AlternativeAcc.]

But have they sold their BTC? If not, they may get the last laugh...




Accepting bitcoin as a form of payment and watching it drop > 60% in 6 months is a big L.

Those millions could've been put into much more stable investments, or cash liquidity that could now be used to invest in bitcoin at a much lower price.

There's no last laugh. Its an L.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Bitcoin doesn't care about him and Bitcoin doesn't care about me or you or whatever the **** else. That's what I think about him.

As far as him not seeing it as a currency... he either ignorantly believes that or he believes it actually will be a widely adopted global currency but isn't going to come out and start preaching down with the USD and US Government when he has so much to lose in doing so and would be targeted so hard. There is no upside to him publicly proclaiming such things.

You haven't explained how or why bitcoin is the be all end all of currency, or have acknowledged the various factors that can and probably will prevent it from ever happening.

Please enlighten us Almighty One. ��

[tontoz]

Dinwiddie was another guy who wanted part of his salary to be in bitcoin.

I haven't done much with it. I finally took a small position in BITO in the mid 20s this year and bailed before the huge drop. Apparently a big hedge fund with a lot of bitcoin exposure blew up recently which caused a lot of the drop.

I dont fully understand it so i will just pay attention to the technicals. If they start to look good i might try again.

[FultzNationRISE]

Dinwiddie was another guy who wanted part of his salary to be in bitcoin.

I haven't done much with it. I finally took a small position in BITO in the mid 20s this year and bailed before the huge drop. Apparently a big hedge fund with a lot of bitcoin exposure blew up recently which caused a lot of the drop.

I dont fully understand it so i will just pay attention to the technicals. If they start to look good i might try again.

PM me.......

[Kblaze8855]

Accepting bitcoin as a form of payment and watching it drop > 60% in 6 months is a big L.

Those millions could've been put into much more stable investments, or cash liquidity that could now be used to invest in bitcoin at a much lower price.

There's no last laugh. Its an L.

And you’re saying others are claiming to know the future?

You have absolutely no idea if it’s an l or not. It’s gone down and up so many times it’s entirely possible they all double their money and cash out and it’s unlikely more stable options would allow that.

People have doubled again and again buying the dip in bitcoin. You have no way to proclaim it an “L”.

Saving and investing it now at the bottom could be a bigger W but you have no idea if it’s a W bottom line. If you take a million in bitcoin at 5K then it drops to 3 it isn’t still an L when it goes to 20. You just won by less than you would if you waited to invest later.

[red1]

never touched bitcoin even though it obviously was a great investment for many people

I just dont know anything about it so I've been squirrelling my cash away and paying off debts looking for a chance to go in on a business with cash-flow

[red1]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206222302200350.jpeg

https://c.tenor.com/S2G-QZk-Vz0AAAAM/michael-jordan-laughing.gif
https://c.tenor.com/S2G-QZk-Vz0AAAAM/michael-jordan-laughing.gif
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[AlternativeAcc.]

And you’re saying others are claiming to know the future?

You have absolutely no idea if it’s an l or not. It’s gone down and up so many times it’s entirely possible they all double their money and cash out and it’s unlikely more stable options would allow that.

People have doubled again and again buying the dip in bitcoin. You have no way to proclaim it an “L”.

Saving and investing it now at the bottom could be a bigger W but you have no idea if it’s a W bottom line. If you take a million in bitcoin at 5K then it drops to 3 it isn’t still an L when it goes to 20. You just won by less than you would if you waited to invest later.

You don't understand the time value of money.

It's an L because they've lost millions in value.. we know that for a fact. What happens in the future is irrelevant because they've lost time value already ..

They essentially bought at the high and lost. It's an L. If it goes up in 3 years and is worth 100 grand, it was still an L to take their payment in bitcoin at a much higher price than they could've bought it for.

And what the fukk do you mean I'm claiming others know the future? This guy is literally proclaiming that it's inevitable that everything will be priced in bitcoin in the future. I'm speaking nothing but simple logic. What are you even blabbering about...

[Kblaze8855]

. They essentially bought at the high and lost. It's an L. If it goes up in 3 years and is worth 100 grand, it was still an L to take their payment in bitcoin at a much higher price than they could've bought it for.


A smaller profit than you could have had is not an l. It’s a smaller W.

If it rebounds quickly enough to outperform other possible investments in the same time period it’s a win. End of story. And you have no idea if it will or not.

If it goes through the roof(again) it’s no different than people who bought at 5 and held it at 3 then saw it hit 50. Every single word of your argument would apply to that real world example. Calling it an automatic L is just ridiculous unless you know the future.

[AlternativeAcc.]

A smaller profit than you could have had is not an l. It’s a smaller W.

You are claiming it can’t be a W in the future no matter what because saving it and investing later makes any potential profit a relative loss anyway. You don’t lose money winning a smaller bet.

If it rebounds quickly enough to outperform other possible investments in the same time period it’s a win. End of story. And you have no idea if it will or not.

If it goes through the roof(again) it’s no different than people who bought at 5 and held it at 3 then saw it hit 50. Every single word of your argument would apply to that real world example. Calling it an automatic L is just ridiculous unless you know the future.

As of now they've lost time value and millions of value overall.. so it's an L.

It can't be a W in the future because even if bitcoin doubles they're still at a loss. If it was a 10% loss over a year, ehh whatever. But a 60% loss? That's a long time and a lot of value lost. That's an L...

I know they won't see any gains any time soon, so they've lost a ton of time value. You're just trying to argue semantics

[8Ball]

Fiat is the ultimate capital to make investments and money.


All my excess funds sit nice and fat in a bank account until the next investment opportunity comes and I pull the trigger.


I would never take payment in bitcoin. Too volatile.


These athletes were better off paid in fiat.

[Kblaze8855]

As of now they've lost time value and millions of value overall.. so it's an L.

It can't be a W in the future because even if bitcoin doubles they're still at a loss. If it was a 10% loss over a year, ehh whatever. But a 60% loss? That's a long time and a lot of value lost. That's an L...

I know they won't see any gains any time soon, so they've lost a ton of time value. You're just trying to argue semantics


No I’m saying if I buy for 5 and it drops to 3 and I sell at 30 it isn’t a loss no matter how you spin it. It isn’t semantics. It’s a fact. What it does before they get out is irrelevant. It’s only a loss if it’s realized. The “time value” is immaterial. People…myself being one…have profited in this precise scenario much more than a traditional investment with the same money. All that’s left to do is wait and see how it goes. It might become an L. It might be a W. You claiming to know is no different than him claiming it will rule the world.

Being down now is in fact not a loss unless they cash it out. Fact. Not semantics. Not opinions. We call it “lost” for ease of conversation. What they actually make or lose may not be decided for many years.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No I’m saying if I buy for 5 and it drops to 3 and I sell at 30 it isn’t a loss no matter how you spin it. It isn’t semantics. It’s a fact. What it does before they get out is irrelevant. It’s only a loss if it’s realized. The “time value” is immaterial. People…myself being one…have profited in this precise scenario much more than a traditional investment with the same money. All that’s left to do is wait and see how it goes. It might become an L. It might be a W. You claiming to know is no different than him claiming it will rule the world.

Being down now is in fact not a loss unless they cash it out. Fact. Not semantics. Not opinions. We call it “lost” for ease of conversation. What they actually make or lose may not be decided for many years.

Time value of money big dog. It's a loss whether you wanna pretend to understand that or not. It's a relative loss obviously

Using your logic nobody whose bought a stock high actually loses until they sell... because it potentially could go 1000x in the next year even if they had to wait 50 years for that to happen. They technically made a profit and outperformed the market even though it was dead for 50 years. Losing 60% of value in a year is an L. An objective, realized L. Because you csnt get back time.

[HylianNightmare]

Ha

[Kblaze8855]

This isn’t a hypothetical. People buy Bitcoin…it drops massively…..it rebounds…they sell it for a massive profit. Your contention is that all of those people took a loss…even when they took out more money than they put in…and by more than other investments would yield…is ****ing stupid. A loss with massive profit…isn’t one. Words are not yours to define.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This isn’t a hypothetical. People buy Bitcoin…it drops massively…..it rebounds…they sell it for a massive profit. Your contention is that all of those people took a loss…even when they took out more money than they put in…and by more than other investments would yield…is ****ing stupid. A loss with massive profit…isn’t one. Words are not yours to define.

People have bought bitcoin at 60k and profited massively? Who?

You're bringing up hypotheticals that haven't happened.

They're down 60% in a year. They lost time value and are down millions in overall value. It's an L... nobody has profited massively from buying bitcoin at 60k. The more something gains in market cap the harder it is to gain % points. You're talking about people buying at 5 and watching it dip to 3 as if the market cap at 60k is the same thing. It's not. And you're wrong either way.

[SATAN]

How can you even make the switch BTC back into fiat argument when that's not Shogon's end goal anyway? You can argue it's wasteful if it doesn't pan out but ultimately who ****in' cares what he does with his money? Maybe he passes it on to his kids and they win. The stock market and fiat ain't the be all and end all. We know exactly what it is and it's not hard to understand why Bitcoin maxis feel the way they do about it all. Even if they are a little insufferable, it seems like some of you actually want people to lose money so you can laugh at them. It's childish egoism. You know the motto when you get in. Same with stocks etc.

[Kblaze8855]

People have bought bitcoin at 60k and profited massively? Who?

You're bringing up hypotheticals that haven't happened.

They're down 60% in a year. They lost time value and are down millions in overall value. It's an L... nobody has profited massively from buying bitcoin at 60k. The more something gains in market cap the harder it is to gain % points. You're talking about people buying at 5 and watching it dip to 3 as if the market cap at 60k is the same thing. It's not. And you're wrong either way.


Buy for a dollar and sell for 1.50 is not an L even if it’s worth 60 cents before you sell it. The specific number is irrelevant people have taken larger relative dips and still sold for a profit. Unless you are from the future you have no idea if they will or not. You not choosing to admit that is your problem.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Buy for a dollar and sell for 1.50 is not an L even if it’s worth 60 cents before you sell it. The specific number is irrelevant people have taken larger dips and still sold for a profit. Unless you are from the future you have no idea if they will or not. You not choosing to admit that is your problem.

The specific number is very Important unless you think the market cap is infinite .. the higher it goes the less room it has to grow

And if I buy something for a dollar now and it's worth .40 a year later then it's a loss. I could've put my dollar to much better use in the year it was losing value regardless of what happens in the future. I can take that same dollar and get 2.5 of what I bought last year .... hindsight defines winning and losing.

[HoopsNY]

Any TA guys in here?

[tontoz]

Any TA guys in here?


I follow this guy for short term moves. Been following him over a year he is good. He works as an engineer and is good with charts.

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/NQ1!/nAYuiQGA-NQ-Update/

[Shooter]

Any TA guys in here?

TA works because people follow the TA patterns and force it to work :lol

[FultzNationRISE]

As far as the general discussion of opportunity cost, it all depends on the specifics.

Whatever money you have tied up in one thing, isnt therefore invested in something else.

If it takes five years to get a 1k return, thats much different than getting a 1k return in five days.

Then you have to ask “could I have gotten more with that money over five years if Id invested it elsewhere.” That’s opportunity cost.

As far as bitcoin, it’s obviously all relative to each person’s situation. It sounds like Shogon and Kblaze got in early and made big bank regardless, which I’m glad about for their sake’s. People who bought it more recently at 35 and might have to wait another five years just to see it climb to 40... arent so lucky. And thats where opportunity cost comes into play. What could they be doing with that money now instead of waiting just to break even again and then hopefully growing after that.

[AlternativeAcc.]

As far as the general discussion of opportunity cost, it all depends on the specifics.

Whatever money you have tied up in one thing, isnt therefore invested in something else.

If it takes five years to get a 1k return, thats much different than getting a 1k return in five days.

Then you have to ask “could I have gotten more with that money over five years if Id invested it elsewhere.” That’s opportunity cost.

As far as bitcoin, it’s obviously all relative to each person’s situation. It sounds like Shogon and Kblaze got in early and made big bank regardless, which I’m glad about for their sake’s. People who bought it more recently at 35 and might have to wait another five years just to see it climb to 40... arent so lucky. And thats where opportunity cost comes into play. What could they be doing with that money now instead of waiting just to break even again and then hopefully growing after that.

Indeed, these athletes are dealing with massive opportunity cost

Even kblaze admits he buys the dips. But imagine he put half his salary into bitcoin at 60k like some of these athletes... I'm sure he'd be considering it a big L and big opportunity cost - like anyone would.

[Overdrive]

I don't keep going back and forth. The end value is infinite. I am both trying to help people and explain to them that we are still early despite the fact that most of the public knows about Bitcoin by now.

Eventually everything will be priced in Bitcoin. This is an emerging technology.

My primary concern with it is not accruing additional value, although that is obviously a massively added bonus. It's not often that a human being is alive during a time in which an evolution of money is occurring right before their very eyes. In fact, this might be the last time it happens until such a time we move beyond money as a species, if we even last that long.

You're exhausting. You don't have any rational arguments, just purely emotion based. I literally already covered most of what you need to know in this thread, and you skipped over and ignored a lot of it. Good luck.

Of course the end value is infinte in a sense that it's a limited "good", but as good as the tech behind it is to create unforgeable digital assets that have more backing than current fiats, it needs broad acceptence in the general public to become anything more than a trade asset for more fiat.

[Shogon]

Of course the end value is infinte in a sense that it's a limited "good", but as good as the tech behind it is to create unforgeable digital assets that have more backing than current fiats, it needs broad acceptence in the general public to become anything more than a trade asset for more fiat.

I love it when people on here try to tell me shit about Bitcoin as if I don't already know and as if I haven't already said it here multiple times.

Yes, all forms of money are faith based and yes they all require belief and acceptance. I'm well aware.

But it doesn't just need belief and acceptance. To be broadly used and to usurp government, it also needs a break down in acceptance of fiat and for people to lose faith in fiat and to become educated on how governments and central banks steal their value silently without consent. This will not be a short process short of a systemic collapse which will inevitably come. The question is when. I used to think it was around the corner, but I've long since figured out a force as big as the United States/global central banking scheme has an absolute ****ton of inertia behind it, and there really is just no telling when the wheels come off. But the outcome will always be the same. These people think they are as powerful as God/nature/existence/math/whatever governing laws of the universe you think exist, and they are wrong.

The Federal Reserve system silently steals your value and time as it has since its inception. It is an ever increasing debt based scheme that will implode. It will come to an end.

[Kblaze8855]

Indeed, these athletes are dealing with massive opportunity cost

Even kblaze admits he buys the dips. But imagine he put half his salary into bitcoin at 60k like some of these athletes... I'm sure he'd be considering it a big L and big opportunity cost - like anyone would.


No. I would not. There are too many people I’ve tried to teach to ignore drops and think long to behave that way. I’m talking Bitcoin and before it. Selling at the bottom after a big drop has ruined people I know personally. The bush era drops mostly. I personally know people who both lost hundreds of thousands and gained hundreds of thousands by either selling out of fear creating the loss or waiting it out and retiring early. These stories exist in the millions and I learned better than to take an L before that even.

I could post screenshots of me talking to a friend who got like 350K when her dad passed and getting her to put in Bitcoin in 2018 and me going back to her hoping she listened and didn’t sell due to the volatile nature and she was downright embarrassed how much she missed out on.

People like you trying to talk someone into taking an L when patience would make them rich isn’t unusual. I learned long ago to ignore those people. You might win. You might lose. You don’t panic and make the L yourself. Especially when a possible loss isn’t crushing to your style of life.

Id imagine most of these guys can afford to ignore it for a long time. We will probably revisit this topic with Bitcoin at 13k and 88 the next few years. It’s entirely possible some leave it to their children. It certainly isn’t a situation to be judged in a matter of months for anyone with their level of earning power. It’s just a topic for quick content because getting you people to talk is why I’m here. All this shot is still in its infancy. I may not even live to see if any of it is an L or not. It definitely isn’t right now.

Peoples grand kids are living off Disney stock from the 50s and 60s. None of this is a short term play for people with real money.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206231726090337.jpeg


I got her in at 6700.

After watching friends with hundreds of thousands of cash on hand not listen to me about ignoring the drops and still be working to this day instead of being a millionaire off patience you think I’d consider not letting it play out myself? Coworker of mine lost like 400K in the crash in 07 and been pissed at himself ever since for taking so much out back then. He’d have been comfortably over a million by now. My girlfriends aunt ****ed herself over the same way.

Its a hard lesson that’s been learned by too many people around me for me to fall victim to of that mentality myself.

You’d have to pry that L out of my cold dead hands. I’d leave it for future generations before I’d cash out and take an L of any real magnitude.

[Kblaze8855]

Looking further back I was actually in at under a thousand and got some others in as well. I forgot I had it on an old site before Robinhood made it available. I’m pretty sure I had Bitcoin for online gambling purposes waaaaay before that too but it’s long lost. But I remember this girl I got into it and her getting shook and selling around this time:



https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206231740290348.jpeg



She was looking to be an actress so she wanted to pull the money and stay in Atlanta going for work in the many films that shoot down there. I distinctly remember paying for her trip specifically to avoid her cashing out but she did it anyway later.

I wanna go find an old phone and see when I actually started talking people into Bitcoin. I know I used it online gambling before it was an investment I’m just not sure how far back it was. I never thought to look before now.

It might predate shogun on here. I made a bit off it back then but didn’t put serious money till it was in the 3000s.

[AlternativeAcc.]

No. I would not. There are too many people IÂ’ve tried to teach to ignore drops and think long to behave that way. IÂ’m talking Bitcoin and before it. Selling at the bottom after a big drop has ruined people I know personally. The bush era drops mostly. I personally know people who both lost hundreds of thousands and gained hundreds of thousands by either selling out of fear creating the loss or waiting it out and retiring early. These stories exist in the millions and I learned better than to take an L before that even.

I could post screenshots of me talking to a friend who got like 350K when her dad passed and getting her to put in Bitcoin in 2018 and me going back to her hoping she listened and didnÂ’t sell due to the volatile nature and she was downright embarrassed how much she missed out on.

People like you trying to talk someone into taking an L when patience would make them rich isnÂ’t unusual. I learned long ago to ignore those people. You might win. You might lose. You donÂ’t panic and make the L yourself. Especially when a possible loss isnÂ’t crushing to your style of life.

Id imagine most of these guys can afford to ignore it for a long time. We will probably revisit this topic with Bitcoin at 13k and 88 the next few years. ItÂ’s entirely possible some leave it to their children. It certainly isnÂ’t a situation to be judged in a matter of months for anyone with their level of earning power. ItÂ’s just a topic for quick content because getting you people to talk is why IÂ’m here. All this shot is still in its infancy. I may not even live to see if any of it is an L or not. It definitely isnÂ’t right now.

Peoples grand kids are living off Disney stock from the 50s and 60s. None of this is a short term play for people with real money.

:facepalm

You still literally do not understand why I'm calling it an L.

I've made millions in the market. I've been down far more and held to profits. You're not teaching me anything. And I'm not saying they should sell... I'm saying they lost time and opportunity. Which is unequivocally true.

But go on about being a bitcoin guru because you've threw some money in before and got lucky...:D

Everything is relative and not all Ls are created equal. In your world there's no such thing as opportunity cost or time lost, because in 5 years they could be up big! That still doesn't mean they didn't lose a year of buying power and had to deal with looking at a 60% loss of value over a year... which for most people is a fairly long time.

You just simply don't understand what I'm even saying and you're trying to teach someone who understands the game far better a lesson about long term investing when I... already understand it perfectly. There's many losses on the road to success. Bitcoin is a highly volatile form of investment and putting millions in it before a massive drop is an L. I'm not saying they should necessarily sell, or that they won't ever walk away with a profit. Simply taking your salary in bitcoin at the peak of a bubble is an L. Your too stubborn and aprently thick to admit this.



Thread title: "How much various athletes lost by taking pay in the form of Bitcoin."


You earlier in the thread: "Trevor Lawrence didn't apparently lose as much as this chart say"


For a guy trying to argue the semantics of what constitutes as an "L" it's pretty clear in your own language that they lost... something.

And for a guy whose apparently so keen on buying when it dips and selling when it gets high, it's even stranger you can't seem to understand that buying almost as high as its ever been with millions on the line isn't some form of an L when you've already lost a year of potential buying power in a highly volatile investment that the majority of the population doesn't even understand and only buy it because they think someone some day will buy it from them for more.

Very bizzare.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ve Been retired and traveling for sometime now and I didn’t need bitcoin to do it. I never claim to be a guru of anything. I’m just not stupid enough to think a long-term plan is a loss during a down period and know people who did and unfortunately lost out of massive money with your line of thinking. Calling it a “loss” is a simple way to have conversation and of course is not literally true. Which you know. But insist on repeating as if you don’t. Long thread short….they might actually lose. They might all profit. Either way unless they already sold…it isn’t true yet regardless of lost “time” when we don’t know the exit potential relative to other investments they could have made. It really is as simple as “We will find out” even if you can’t acknowledge it and want to be right even when factually you can’t be at the moment.

Ill let you tell yourself you know though. People who think they know the future can rarely be dissuaded because the proof is always unknowable. Neat little arrangement for you fortune tellers.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I’ve Been retired and traveling for sometime now and I didn’t need bitcoin to do it. I never claim to be a guru of anything. I’m just not stupid enough to think a long-term plan is a loss during a down period and know people who did and unfortunately lost out of massive money with your line of thinking. Calling it a “loss” is a simple way to have conversation and of course is not literally true. Which you know. But insist on repeating as if you don’t. Long thread short….they might actually lose. They might all profit. Either way unless they already sold…it isn’t true yet regardless of lost “time” when we don’t know the exit potential relative to other investments they could have made. It really is as simple as “We will find out” even if you can’t acknowledge it and want to be right even when factually you can’t be at the moment.

Ill let you tell yourself you know though. People who think they know the future can rarely be dissuaded because the proof is always unknowable. Neat little arrangement for you fortune tellers.

Except we do know that they could've bought real estate and profited.. or oil stocks or a bunch of other shit thats way safer than bitcoin and actually backed by some sort of understood value.

Instead they gambled millions at the peak of a crypto bubble. That's an L

I dont know the future, but I know right now they're down 60% on millions of dollars in a year and they could've been up on much safer things. That we do know. You're trying to twist it like I'm trying to predict rhe future when I'm merely saying they've lost time and value (a lot of value) over the course of a year (decently long time)

You're the one unwilling to admit they took aby sort of L because since bitcoin has done it before it has to do it again right? Even at a higher and higher marker cap. Sure bitcoin has shot up before, and then died for several years until the post covid boom. So people who bought at the top in 2017 had to wait 4 years to see profits... if they held. But even if they held the profits don't erase the opportunity loss they experienced for 4 years.


Your own language says you think it was some sort of a loss or you would've have titled the thread this way. You're just a stubborn guy with a big ego that can never admit when you're wrong, and you like to argue semantics. In your fairy tale ego world nobody ever takes an L unless they sell at a loss. (Even if it means years of being broke cause you put your savings into bitcoin at the peak of a bubble) The world isn't that black and white though.

[Kblaze8855]

So you don’t know the future but know it’s a loss when it could be 370,000 in 10 years blowing away the earnings from other potential investments(the entirety of your “lost time” argument) or 4 bucks. But you don’t claim to know the future. And I’m the one being stubborn. Understood. I’ll get back to you in 2035 when we still won’t know.

[AlternativeAcc.]

So you don’t know the future but know it’s a loss when it could be 370,000 in 10 years blowing away the earnings from other potential investments(the entirety of your “lost time” argument) or 4 bucks. But you don’t claim to know the future. And I’m the one being stubborn. Understood. I’ll get back to you in 2035 when we still won’t know.

You titled the thread "how much various athletes lost by taking pay in bitcoin"

What did they lose? Value and time? Millions of dollars of value in a year? That's an L.

Would you be happy for yourself if you put 100k into bitcoin at 60k? Would you consider any sort of L? Aren't you the guy trying to time the peaks and dips?

Even in your scenario, those earnings don't get back the year they could've had 5 million extra in liquidity. Just like the people who bought at 17k in 2017 don't get back the 4 years of lost time and potential. Its as simple as that.

[Kblaze8855]

Either you don’t know or tell me who wins the next 10 Super Bowls. Either we don’t literally know or you are in fact from the future and I’d like to place some bets. Though it’s entirely possible that me placing those massive bets and my winnings could alter the timeline enough that your last few picks would be wrong. Butterfly situation.

I think about things like that often. Like if I could tell myself to become a large early Amazon shareholder if I could potentially ruin what was supposed to happen. Must be nice to be able to answer those hypotheticals as you slide through time.

[Shooter]

A couple of quick and easy points for most to consume...

-Some of these athletes could have sold BTC long before it dipped. They got paid in BTC but I'm assuming they could sell at any point so there is no way of knowing how much their investment decreased in value unless you knew when they sold or if they are still holding all of it, or even 10% of it, 50% etc.

-Some of these athletes did not sell BTC meaning they did not realize any loss. It's much like when the housing market goes through its ups and downs

Neighbor: OMG my house went down $100k, I lost $100k man!
Me: Oh, so you sold your house?
Neighbor: Well, uh, no.
Me: So then what did you lose?
Neighbor: Oh. I guess nothing then.
Me: So the price could (and will) go back up then, right?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Either you don’t know or tell me who wins the next 10 Super Bowls. Either we don’t literally know or you are in fact from the future and I’d like to place some bets. Though it’s entirely possible that me placing those massive bets and my winnings could alter the timeline enough that your last few picks would be wrong. Butterfly situation. I think about things like that often. Like if I could tell myself to become a large early Amazon shareholder if I could potentially ruin what was supposed to happen.
Let's ask shogun, he's the one literally claiming to know the future. I'm just a guy saying losing millions of value over a years span is an L and a big loss of opportunity.


I'd love to see a butterfly situation play out. I don't think betting big would alter things very much because those teams and players and companies are set in motion.. although the scores are often so tight that even a small change in the timeline could and probably would alter the games to an extent.

[Kblaze8855]

In thinking more along the lines of….I bet hundreds of thousands and eventually millions at the start of the season on long shots and I’m right every time…people would be onto me eventually and my pick would alter perception and discussion of the teams to a point it changed things on the field.

How many times could a nobody bet his whole life and be right before someone noticed?

[FultzNationRISE]

I love it when people on here try to tell me shit about Bitcoin as if I don't already know and as if I haven't already said it here multiple times.

Yes, all forms of money are faith based and yes they all require belief and acceptance. I'm well aware.

But it doesn't just need belief and acceptance. To be broadly used and to usurp government, it also needs a break down in acceptance of fiat and for people to lose faith in fiat and to become educated on how governments and central banks steal their value silently without consent. This will not be a short process short of a systemic collapse which will inevitably come. The question is when. I used to think it was around the corner, but I've long since figured out a force as big as the United States/global central banking scheme has an absolute ****ton of inertia behind it, and there really is just no telling when the wheels come off. But the outcome will always be the same. These people think they are as powerful as God/nature/existence/math/whatever governing laws of the universe you think exist, and they are wrong.

The Federal Reserve system silently steals your value and time as it has since its inception. It is an ever increasing debt based scheme that will implode. It will come to an end.

Ohhhh.

Sorta like, how to reduce corporate authoritarianism, we would need a broad, proactive switch among the public from relying on corporate provided consumer goods (like razor blades), to more politically conscious private entities?

Ask me how thats going ;)

[AlternativeAcc.]

In thinking more along the lines of….I bet hundreds of thousands and eventually millions at the start of the season on long shots and I’m right every time…people would be onto me eventually and my pick would alter perception and discussion of the teams to a point it changed things on the field.

How many times could a nobody bet his whole life and be right before someone noticed?

Ah yeah, you're right

Eventually you'd be a big news story and that would absolutely affect the games in some way. Even if a coach sees the story in a time he would've came up with the game winning play ... or any number of millions of things that could be slightly altered which would result in a different outcome. Could affect off season moves and everything in between. I just don't know how delicate our timeline is and how small changes would affect the big picture. Definitely fascinating to think about

[Kblaze8855]

Imagine how much it would suck to invent time travel and come back and stake your reputation on predicting events that now don’t happen because you announced them.

[FultzNationRISE]

Even in your scenario, those earnings don't get back the year they could've had 5 million extra in liquidity. Just like the people who bought at 17k in 2017 don't get back the 4 years of lost time and potential. Its as simple as that.

Not only that, but if they sold at 17k today theyre even taking actual quantitative losses, when you factor in transaction costs and significant inflation. That’s in addition to opportunity costs.

But again, for others the story is different. Some people unequivocally got cream from the investment.

Such is the nature of investing.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Not only that, but if they sold at 17k today theyre even taking actual quantitative losses, when you factor in transaction costs and significant inflation, in addition to opportunity costs.

But again, for others the story is different. Some people unequivocally got cream from the investment.

Such is the nature of investing.

Exactly. Even selling at a slight 'profit' they'd still be overall losers.

Can't get back time. When you start getting into years being down, in a world where inflation is skyrocketing, the 60% loss in value is an even bigger loss than that number indicates even if it's not a technical realized loss yet.

[Overdrive]

I love it when people on here try to tell me shit about Bitcoin as if I don't already know and as if I haven't already said it here multiple times.

Yes, all forms of money are faith based and yes they all require belief and acceptance. I'm well aware.

But it doesn't just need belief and acceptance. To be broadly used and to usurp government, it also needs a break down in acceptance of fiat and for people to lose faith in fiat and to become educated on how governments and central banks steal their value silently without consent. This will not be a short process short of a systemic collapse which will inevitably come. The question is when. I used to think it was around the corner, but I've long since figured out a force as big as the United States/global central banking scheme has an absolute ****ton of inertia behind it, and there really is just no telling when the wheels come off. But the outcome will always be the same. These people think they are as powerful as God/nature/existence/math/whatever governing laws of the universe you think exist, and they are wrong.

The Federal Reserve system silently steals your value and time as it has since its inception. It is an ever increasing debt based scheme that will implode. It will come to an end.

I wasn't trying to lecture you in any way. Just showing that I don't think it's some sort scam, but I always wonder how you stay 100% sure about it. We're actually on the verge of a hyper inflation in Europe and existential crisis for the industrial sector and still there's no urge to change the system in any way, sinply because the people who profit from it do so more than ever.

The confidence in Bitcoin shoild've risen not dropped.

[DMAVS41]

Trevor Lawrence disputes this for the record. He says his entire signing bonus wasn’t paid in Bitcoin as reported only a portion of it as a publicity stunt when he partnered with a crypto company. He lost money just not that much.

Anyway….


Id still hold it if I were them. It’s obviously coming back. I never let myself go all in but if I did now would be the time.


:cheers::cheers::cheers:

[DMAVS41]

No. I would not. There are too many people I’ve tried to teach to ignore drops and think long to behave that way. I’m talking Bitcoin and before it. Selling at the bottom after a big drop has ruined people I know personally. The bush era drops mostly. I personally know people who both lost hundreds of thousands and gained hundreds of thousands by either selling out of fear creating the loss or waiting it out and retiring early. These stories exist in the millions and I learned better than to take an L before that even.

I could post screenshots of me talking to a friend who got like 350K when her dad passed and getting her to put in Bitcoin in 2018 and me going back to her hoping she listened and didn’t sell due to the volatile nature and she was downright embarrassed how much she missed out on.

People like you trying to talk someone into taking an L when patience would make them rich isn’t unusual. I learned long ago to ignore those people. You might win. You might lose. You don’t panic and make the L yourself. Especially when a possible loss isn’t crushing to your style of life.

Id imagine most of these guys can afford to ignore it for a long time. We will probably revisit this topic with Bitcoin at 13k and 88 the next few years. It’s entirely possible some leave it to their children. It certainly isn’t a situation to be judged in a matter of months for anyone with their level of earning power. It’s just a topic for quick content because getting you people to talk is why I’m here. All this shot is still in its infancy. I may not even live to see if any of it is an L or not. It definitely isn’t right now.

Peoples grand kids are living off Disney stock from the 50s and 60s. None of this is a short term play for people with real money.

So much this.

[DMAVS41]

You titled the thread "how much various athletes lost by taking pay in bitcoin"

What did they lose? Value and time? Millions of dollars of value in a year? That's an L.

Would you be happy for yourself if you put 100k into bitcoin at 60k? Would you consider any sort of L? Aren't you the guy trying to time the peaks and dips?

Even in your scenario, those earnings don't get back the year they could've had 5 million extra in liquidity. Just like the people who bought at 17k in 2017 don't get back the 4 years of lost time and potential. Its as simple as that.

This is terrible logic.

I bought Bitcoin both in the hundreds of dollars and I bought it at 19k last cycle before it went back down...in fact, I've been buying both the highs and lows for years now.

I suffered no lost time or potential because it is a long-term investment I've chosen to make. Built into that decision to invest is the opportunity cost...but there is also an opportunity cost to not investing. So your argument doesn't even make sense.

You are literally on here arguing that people that bought BTC at 17k took an L when it was trading near 70k 6 months ago? What?

If you've been around more than a minute...you know short-term trading, unless that is your job and even then it is tough, is a loser. You need to be thinking decades...and judging something on a short-term timeframe that is meant to be a decades long play is just silly. You are the guy arguing that early investors in Amazon or Tesla took L's because of the swings.

These takes are even worse than your basketball talk...

[AlternativeAcc.]

[/B]
This is terrible logic.

I bought Bitcoin both in the hundreds of dollars and I bought it at 19k last cycle before it went back down...in fact, I've been buying both the highs and lows for years now.

I suffered no lost time or potential because it is a long-term investment I've chosen to make. Built into that decision to invest is the opportunity cost...but there is also an opportunity cost to not investing. So your argument doesn't even make sense.

You are literally on here arguing that people that bought BTC at 17k took an L when it was trading near 70k 6 months ago? What?

If you've been around more than a minute...you know short-term trading, unless that is your job and even then it is tough, is a loser. You need to be thinking decades...and judging something on a short-term timeframe that is meant to be a decades long play is just silly. You are the guy arguing that early investors in Amazon or Tesla took L's because of the swings.

These takes are even worse than your basketball talk...
It's sound logic because life isn't infinite...

Everybody has a different time-frame on investing, but time itself is something that it objective and clear, 1 year is 1 year... and theres no way around the fact that if you're down 60% in 1 year then objectively you made a poor decision on where to park your capital during that 1 year. We know this because of hindsight obviously, but hindsight defines winning and losing.

If you died during the 4 year bear cycle of crypto... you would've died never having any realized gains... time is highly valuable.. that can't be argued

Again we're getting into the semantics side of thing regarding what is considered a "loss", but to me, even if you're a long term guy, buying right before a 60% drop is an L in my book, regardless of what happens years down the line. Because had you been just a bit more patient, your gains would be much much bigger without the temporary stress and grief of watching millions of value dwindle over a fairly large amount of time. (For most people). And there's certainly no guarantee we see BTC go back up to 70k any time soon.. and at that market cap it becomes increasingly harder to make huge gains... that's just reality whether you like it or not. I've made far more money in the market than you guys combined so I'm cool with the jabs. You guys are babies in that realm.

[Cleverness]

They down 1-2 in the 2nd round of the playoffs.. you can argue they took an L in game 3 but the series ain't over yet

And when btc hits 100k they moving on to the conference finals... 250k they in the finals... :rockon:

[AlternativeAcc.]

They down 1-2 in the 2nd round of the playoffs.. you can argue they took an L in game 3 but the series ain't over yet

And when btc hits 100k they moving on to the conference finals... 250k they in the finals... :rockon:

Imagine buying a house at 300k and a year later having that same house be valued at 120k. That'd be hard for even the most battle-tested of people. Most of your money is tied up and now you have to deal with the temporary grief of knowing you bought way too high without a guarantee it goes up any time soon. You can sell it at a huge loss or deal with temporary(maybe permanent) grief and wasted time/opportunity cost.

[FultzNationRISE]

[/B]
This is terrible logic.

I bought Bitcoin both in the hundreds of dollars and I bought it at 19k last cycle before it went back down...in fact, I've been buying both the highs and lows for years now.

I suffered no lost time or potential because it is a long-term investment I've chosen to make. Built into that decision to invest is the opportunity cost...but there is also an opportunity cost to not investing. So your argument doesn't even make sense.

You are literally on here arguing that people that bought BTC at 17k took an L when it was trading near 70k 6 months ago? What?

If you've been around more than a minute...you know short-term trading, unless that is your job and even then it is tough, is a loser. You need to be thinking decades...and judging something on a short-term timeframe that is meant to be a decades long play is just silly. You are the guy arguing that early investors in Amazon or Tesla took L's because of the swings.

These takes are even worse than your basketball talk...

This is all certainly true, opportunity cost is relative to what other opportunities you have. If the market in general is down across the board, there may not have been much opportunity for bigger returns trading elsewhere. But with that same capital you could have in theory done anything: Take time off to learn new skills, start up a business, buy a property, maybe get this or that medical procedure that insurance wont cover but you feel improves your quality of life etc.

There's all sorts of things you can 'invest' in even if they're not strictly related to market securities. So far, if you bought bitcoin at its current price five years ago, the value of that asset has not increased (the opposite in fact) AND you've been unable to use those funds for anything else. But to your point, if you're confident bitcoin WILL increase going forward and thereby compensate for this period of sterility, then that's obviously a fair choice to make, and time will tell whether or not it pans out.

The biggest issue I see with your point about long term viability, is that it's predicated on a 'status quo' mentality common among many investors rn. Theyre basing their decisions on what has 'historically' been the case. This perhaps shows a lack of appreciation for the supremely unique situation facing global humanity in the coming decades.



And when I say 'perhaps'.... what I really mean is 'ABSOLUTELY.'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gell6EwwgeM

[SATAN]

Imagine buying a house at 300k and a year later having that same house be valued at 120k. That'd be hard for even the most battle-tested of people. Most of your money is tied up and now you have to deal with the temporary grief of knowing you bought way too high without a guarantee it goes up any time soon. You can sell it at a huge loss or deal with temporary(maybe permanent) grief and wasted time/opportunity cost.

:facepalm

[AlternativeAcc.]

:facepalm

Go buy a house for 300k, wait a year, then see it valued at 120k. I'm sure you'd be happy

Or maybe not. Idk.

Never seen so many people act like losing 60% of value over the course of a year is no big deal. Just HLDDDDDD BRUT ITLL BE BACK IN NO TIME. no harm done!

You guys are literally idiots.. broke idiots at that.

[DMAVS41]

It's sound logic because life isn't infinite...

Everybody has a different time-frame on investing, but time itself is something that it objective and clear, 1 year is 1 year... and theres no way around the fact that if you're down 60% in 1 year then objectively you made a poor decision on where to park your capital during that 1 year. We know this because of hindsight obviously, but hindsight defines winning and losing.

If you died during the 4 year bear cycle of crypto... you would've died never having any realized gains... time is highly valuable.. that can't be argued

Again we're getting into the semantics side of thing regarding what is considered a "loss", but to me, even if you're a long term guy, buying right before a 60% drop is an L in my book, regardless of what happens years down the line. Because had you been just a bit more patient, your gains would be much much bigger without the temporary stress and grief of watching millions of value dwindle over a fairly large amount of time. (For most people). And there's certainly no guarantee we see BTC go back up to 70k any time soon.. and at that market cap it becomes increasingly harder to make huge gains... that's just reality whether you like it or not. I've made far more money in the market than you guys combined so I'm cool with the jabs. You guys are babies in that realm.

I think there are two things here...

1. You are making arguments about life not being infinite and opportunity cost, but you are only looking at it from one side...and as Blaze pointed out...nobody has a crystal ball. Again, just take Bitcoin...when it went from roughly 30 dollars to 1 cent in an early crash...you'd be telling everyone what an L they took...yet the opportunity cost of not investing in Bitcoin back in 2012 is literally millions of dollars of lost opportunity for even those with very few dollars to invest. My main point here is that everything is an opportunity cost. You talked about buying real estate...again, huge opportunity cost...you buy a home and you likely give up opportunities to do a ton in life...not only financially. So I think it is good practice to view this stuff from all sides...not just the side of investing in something like Bitcoin or Tesla or Amazon...to name the ones that have come through...and Lucent Technologies or Qualcomm or Pets.com...etc....that ended up not working out in the dotcom bubble.

2. If you just don't think Bitcoin is a good investment....cool...I disagree, but I'm not certain of anything. I think we likely see it over 100k sometime in 2025...but reasonable people can completely disagree on its value. I'm glad you've made a lot of money...usually people that have made a lot of money investing don't think have the time horizon you seemingly do. But congrats...

[SATAN]

Go buy a house for 300k, wait a year, then see it valued at 120k. I'm sure you'd be happy

Or maybe not. Idk.

Never seen so many people act like losing 60% of value over the course of a year is no big deal. Just HLDDDDDD BRUT ITLL BE BACK IN NO TIME. no harm done!

You guys are literally idiots.. broke idiots at that.

The fact you don't realize why I facepalmed says it all. And your attitude and inflated ego ****ing sucks.

[DMAVS41]

Go buy a house for 300k, wait a year, then see it valued at 120k. I'm sure you'd be happy

Or maybe not. Idk.

Never seen so many people act like losing 60% of value over the course of a year is no big deal. Just HLDDDDDD BRUT ITLL BE BACK IN NO TIME. no harm done!

You guys are literally idiots.. broke idiots at that.

You don't get to just randomly pick the time of assessment though. One could easily just zoom out a little and talk about how the price of Bitcoin is up 4x from the pandemic low...and that has destroyed the stock market and real estate market in terms of returns.

You make it sound easy. The dollar is losing purchasing power daily, the stock market is tanking...at least the tech sector has been, and you can't get anything worth shit in terms of yield on real dollar amounts from banks.

Housing has been great, but that seems unsustainable with rising mortgage rates...and it isn't like everyone has the ability to buy a home...

I'd never do it myself or advise someone to get out over their skis, but putting roughly 1 to 5 percent of your investing capital in Bitcoin...and maybe a little Ethereum...definitely makes sense...the risk / reward potential pretty much demands that you have some type of small position at the very least.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I think there are two things here...

1. You are making arguments about life not being infinite and opportunity cost, but you are only looking at it from one side...and as Blaze pointed out...nobody has a crystal ball. Again, just take Bitcoin...when it went from roughly 30 dollars to 1 cent in an early crash...you'd be telling everyone what an L they took...yet the opportunity cost of not investing in Bitcoin back in 2012 is literally millions of dollars of lost opportunity for even those with very few dollars to invest. My main point here is that everything is an opportunity cost. You talked about buying real estate...again, huge opportunity cost...you buy a home and you likely give up opportunities to do a ton in life...not only financially. So I think it is good practice to view this stuff from all sides...not just the side of investing in something like Bitcoin or Tesla or Amazon...to name the ones that have come through...and Lucent Technologies or Qualcomm or Pets.com...etc....that ended up not working out in the dotcom bubble.

2. If you just don't think Bitcoin is a good investment....cool...I disagree, but I'm not certain of anything. I think we likely see it over 100k sometime in 2025...but reasonable people can completely disagree on its value. I'm glad you've made a lot of money...usually people that have made a lot of money investing don't think have the time horizon you seemingly do. But congrats...

That's not really an apt comparison though. Almost nobody knew about bitcoin in its infancy and the market cap was tiny relative to what it is now... those gains are never coming back.

If somewhat bought Amazon while it was valued at 2 trillion, that's not the same as buying it when it had a 1billion dollar valuation. Bitcoin has already made the massive moves. I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that. The growth potential just isn't there anymore.

It'd not about me liking bitcoin or not... losing 60% of value on a year on anything is an L... I don't care what it is

I think there's money to be made with bitcoin in the short term. I don't think 100k is remotely out of the question within the next 3 years. I also don't think 5k is out of the question. Nobody knows. All I know is that losing 60% of value in a year on ANYTHING is an L. And epecially something that isn't backed by any real intrinsic value.

Losing a year sucks... I'd gladly take a lost year if it meant I made 50 million the next. But it doesn't erase the L of a lossed year. I can never get that year back no matter what. We're not talking 5 or 8%.... 60 ****ing percent.

[Kblaze8855]

Never seen so many people act like losing 60% of value over the course of a year is no big deal. Just HLDDDDDD BRUT ITLL BE BACK IN NO TIME. no harm done!

It literally is no harm done and it’s been no harm done after drops just as large percent wise in the past resulted in people who held on making massive profit.



You guys are literally idiots.. broke idiots at that.





https://youtu.be/rTVjstuyuJU


Not that it matters.

[Kblaze8855]

. Bitcoin has already made the massive moves. I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that. The growth potential just isn't there anymore.


^Legit doesn’t see why I said he’s claiming to know the future just like Shogun who he calls out for that.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It literally is no harm done and it’s been no harm done after drops just as large percent wise in the past resulted in people who held on making massive profit.








https://youtu.be/rTVjstuyuJU


Not that it matters.

Past performance isn't indicative of future results, but if it was then these athletes wouldn't see profits for another 4 years.


Losing 60% of value in a year is definitely harm done. You guys are literally insane.

[AlternativeAcc.]

^Legit doesn’t see why I said he’s claiming to know the future just like Shogun who he calls out for that.

Because I have a better understanding of the market than you.

Bitcoin has risen hundreds of thousands of % points since its inception...

At 400 billion market cap if you think it's got anything approaching that level of growth you're a bigger fool than i thought.

Its made the parabolic moves... amazon and Google have too... this isn't news to anyone who has even the simplest understanding of the market

[8Ball]

To the people holding bitcoin:


1) do you agree that most bitcoin buyers are also holders?

2) do you still think bitcoin is the best store of value?

3) do you still think there will be widespread adoption as a currency?

4) is bitcoin a hedge against inflation?

[Kblaze8855]

And your “understanding” would have led my friend to pull out and make a few hundred dollars and have to go to work tomorrow as she does instead of flipping only 10% of her liquid cash at the time to 300+ K and likely being retired as I am. I’d imagine someone in her life who thinks an unrealized loss matters scared her into your line of thinking. To her sorrow. Because in the end none of us really know shit. Some of us just delight in pretending we do.

Followers of both our lines of thinking have been made millionaires and ruined both know nothing trend followers and “guru” types with more experience than you have time on this earth.

If you knew anything with the certainty you claim(while also claiming you aren’t saying you know the future somehow) you wouldn’t be here as a Lebron trolling clown you’d be turning millions to billions. But you don’t. You guess. Like everyone else. But not everyone else is pretending to have unknowable knowledge while complaining about someone else pretending to have unknowable knowledge.

Either admit nobody knows how it will turn out and therefore we just have to wait and see or stop complaining about Shogun claiming he knows the future when you’re comfortable telling everyone else you know it too. It can’t be both.

[8Ball]

Kblaze, you aren't accounting for volatility in your calculations for recommending bitcoin to your friend.

You can't compare investments that have low volatility to ones that have high volatility.

You can call alt account a lebron troll to denigrate him, but he made good points in this thread.

[8Ball]

A couple of quick and easy points for most to consume...

-Some of these athletes could have sold BTC long before it dipped. They got paid in BTC but I'm assuming they could sell at any point so there is no way of knowing how much their investment decreased in value unless you knew when they sold or if they are still holding all of it, or even 10% of it, 50% etc.

-Some of these athletes did not sell BTC meaning they did not realize any loss. It's much like when the housing market goes through its ups and downs

Neighbor: OMG my house went down $100k, I lost $100k man!
Me: Oh, so you sold your house?
Neighbor: Well, uh, no.
Me: So then what did you lose?
Neighbor: Oh. I guess nothing then.
Me: So the price could (and will) go back up then, right?

Of course they didn't lose if they don't sell.

But losing 60% of your value in any kind of investment in 7 months does beg the question of rethinking and re-evaluating your investment horizon and thinking.

60% in 1 year does beg the question:


What got Bitcoin to run up in price in 2017, dump in price in 2018 by 80%, stagnate for 2 years, then run up in price later 2020 and dump in price in 2022 by 60%.

If your answer is: it's gonna run up in price again because that's what it has always done.... ok fine, that might be right, but its a very low value investment thesis.

[AlternativeAcc.]

And your “understanding” would have led my friend to pull out and make a few hundred dollars and have to go to work tomorrow as she does instead of flipping only 10% of her liquid cash at the time to 300+ K and likely being retired as I am. I’d imagine someone in her life who thinks an unrealized loss matters scared her into your line of thinking. To her sorrow. Because in the end none of us really know shit. Some of us just delight in pretending we do.

Followers of both our lines of thinking have been made millionaires and ruined both know nothing trend followers and “guru” types with more experience than you have time on this earth.

If you knew anything with the certainty you claim(while also claiming you aren’t saying you know the future somehow) you wouldn’t be here as a Lebron trolling clown you’d be turning millions to billions. But you don’t. You guess. Like everyone else. But not everyone else is pretending to have unknowable knowledge while complaining about someone else pretending to have unknowable knowledge.

Either admit nobody knows how it will turn out and therefore we just have to wait and see or stop complaining about Shogun claiming he knows the future when you’re comfortable telling everyone else you know it too. It can’t be both.

Mostly skimmed this... I see anecdotes that don't refute any of my points.. I won't cover that

I also see you bringing up the 'you don't know the future' bit while you're literally proclaiming that bitcoin is guarenteed to go up because it's done so in the past... which is amateur level thinking... so you're just a hypocrite

There's things we know for 99% certainty, and one of those is that bitcoin has made the biggest moves its ever gonna make. Acting like all I'm doing is proclaiming I know the future by stating common sense near-certancies is an ugly strawman. And a hypocritical one at that.

[Kblaze8855]

Kblaze, you aren't accounting for volatility in your calculations for recommending bitcoin to your friend.

You can't compare investments that have low volatility to ones that have high volatility.

You can call alt account a lebron troll to denigrate him, but he made good points in this thread.





I’m sure the volatility is what scared her off her massive profit. She told me as much. And very very much regrets it.

And I only call him what he is. I can’t take some people seriously after a certain point. Like 3ball talking about politics. When I know you’re a nut who gets up out of bed obsessed and goes straight to penning your 2462nd Lebron topic of repeating yourself I have a hard time looking past your obvious mental issues.

It’s like talking to the Cookie Monster about social justice issues. You can only take the Cookie Monster so serious.

[Kblaze8855]

I also see you bringing up the 'you don't know the future' bit while you're literally proclaiming that bitcoin is guarenteed to go up because it's done so in the past... which is amateur level thinking

If something like 20 version of “We will have to see” didn’t make it clear I’m saying I don’t know because nobody can let me add one more;


”We will have to see”.


Maybe that will do the trick.

In 2039 maybe we will have the beginnings of an answer you don’t stop saying you already have. I’ll check back every few years. Feel free to do the same. If you’re still here after Lebron retires that is.

[AlternativeAcc.]

If something like 20 version of “We will have to see” didn’t make it clear I’m saying I don’t know because nobody can let me add one more;


”We will have to see”.


Maybe that will do the trick.

In 2039 maybe we will have the beginnings of an answer you don’t stop saying you already have. I’ll check back every few years. Feel free to do the same. If you’re still here after Lebron retires that is.

And I don't know either, or frankly give a shit cause that was never my point.

They lost 60% over a year no matter what happens. That we do know.

[Kblaze8855]

. And I don't know either


I’ll have peace on those terms but reserve the right to keep my army at an uncomfortable level of readiness similar to but less oppressive than North Korea.

[DMAVS41]

That's not really an apt comparison though. Almost nobody knew about bitcoin in its infancy and the market cap was tiny relative to what it is now... those gains are never coming back.

If somewhat bought Amazon while it was valued at 2 trillion, that's not the same as buying it when it had a 1billion dollar valuation. Bitcoin has already made the massive moves. I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that. The growth potential just isn't there anymore.

It'd not about me liking bitcoin or not... losing 60% of value on a year on anything is an L... I don't care what it is

I think there's money to be made with bitcoin in the short term. I don't think 100k is remotely out of the question within the next 3 years. I also don't think 5k is out of the question. Nobody knows. All I know is that losing 60% of value in a year on ANYTHING is an L. And epecially something that isn't backed by any real intrinsic value.

Losing a year sucks... I'd gladly take a lost year if it meant I made 50 million the next. But it doesn't erase the L of a lossed year. I can never get that year back no matter what. We're not talking 5 or 8%.... 60 ****ing percent.

Again, you are choosing a random timeframe. It's still an L when BTC has more than doubled 2 years to the date?

Cool, so you don't need a crystal ball...but here you are again predicting the future...but then you say you don't know and nobody knows...

It is almost as if you are making our points for us...

[8Ball]

I’m sure the volatility is what scared her off her massive profit. She told me as much. And very very much regrets it.


This is awful argument Kblaze.

"Price went up" = insta regret for not buying.

There are thousands of investments were prices went up and she didn't buy and could have regretted.

The question is why is bitcoin the right decision to make based off her investment critieria. If she has zero criteria besides "price goes up" what kind of investment advice is that?

There has to be supporting investment thesis behind buying a certain asset.



What happened with bitcoin in the last 7 months shot a hole through a lot of the reasons why many bitcoin maxis bought bitcoin:

1) It's a hedge against inflation.
2) One of the best stores of value.
3) Widespread adoption.
4) Decentralized currency.

1 and 2 is wrong since with 8% inflation bitcoin went the other way price wise. And stores of value is wrong since bitcoin under performed against other stores of value in the last 7 months.

All 4 of these thesis turned out to be incorrect, 3 and 4 has not happened since most hodlers don't use it for currency and therefore there isn't widespread adoption.

[DMAVS41]

Of course they didn't lose if they don't sell.

But losing 60% of your value in any kind of investment in 7 months does beg the question of rethinking and re-evaluating your investment horizon and thinking.

60% in 1 year does beg the question:


What got Bitcoin to run up in price in 2017, dump in price in 2018 by 80%, stagnate for 2 years, then run up in price later 2020 and dump in price in 2022 by 60%.

If your answer is: it's gonna run up in price again because that's what it has always done.... ok fine, that might be right, but its a very low value investment thesis.

But that isn't the investment thesis on Bitcoin...that it will for sure go up.

The investment thesis is a broken monetary policy of the governments that inflate currency combined with the ability to transfer value across the world in minutes without a 3rd party...a transparent currency that no one person controls and a fixed supply.

The whole volatility is a reflection of everyone trying to determine what value that actually has in the world combined with how liquid it is 24/7.

I have no idea if price will rebound or it will fade away...etc...but to act like there isn't something unique and potentially special about bitcoin and that it is only about NGU (number go up)...I think misses the real issues here.

And, I will say, Americans are often quite biased when it comes to currency...try living in some other places in the world where you see your money get inflated away at absurd percentages....Bitcoin going up and making higher lows most years sounds really appealing in the face of that.

[Kblaze8855]

. The question is why is bitcoin the right decision to make based off her investment critieria. If she has zero criteria besides "price goes up" what kind of investment advice is that?


Based on the results…the right kind. Crypto was and is a massive risk based largely on smoke and mirrors and seeing the hype train taking off at the right time. If it were a science it wouldn’t be so captivating to so many. All you could do is see the rising wave. At the start it had almost no practical use. It’s all bullshit much like money itself. It’s only worth what we as a people decide it is.

[DMAVS41]

This is awful argument Kblaze.

"Price went up" = insta regret for not buying.

There are thousands of investments were prices went up and she didn't buy and could have regretted.

The question is why is bitcoin the right decision to make based off her investment critieria. If she has zero criteria besides "price goes up" what kind of investment advice is that?

There has to be supporting investment thesis behind buying a certain asset.



What happened with bitcoin in the last 7 months shot a hole through a lot of the reasons why many bitcoin maxis bought bitcoin:

1) Its a hedge against inflation.
2) One of the best stores of value.
3) Widespread adoption.
4) Decentralized currency.

All 4 of these thesis turned out to be incorrect, 3 and 4 has not happened since most hodlers don't use it for currency and therefore there isn't widespread adoption.

Again, there is an opportunity cost to all decisions in life.

I disagree about your list as well....you can't look at 1 year and make these types of claims.

Bitcoin has doubled in the last 2 years to date....seems like a pretty good inflation hedge to me on that timeframe.

Adoption has absolutely increased...you can see it on the blockchain...more addresses holding coins...especially when looking at addresses holding 1 coin or less.

Bitcoin is decentralized...why are you saying that failed?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Again, you are choosing a random timeframe. It's still an L when BTC has more than doubled 2 years to the date?

Cool, so you don't need a crystal ball...but here you are again predicting the future...but then you say you don't know and nobody knows...

It is almost as if you are making our points for us...

Not all Ls are the same

I'm not saying it's a catastrophic L, but losing 60% in a year is nothing to snooze at.

Not everything is a black and white win or loss.

But as someone who be doing this shit at an insanely high level, if I put in big time money and watch that shit fall 60% in a year I'm accepting an L.

[DMAVS41]

Not all Ls are the same

I'm not saying it's a catastrophic L, but losing 60% in a year is nothing to snooze at.

Not everything is a black and white win or loss.

But as someone who be doing this shit at an insanely high level, if I put in big time money and watch that shit fall 60% in a year I'm accepting an L.

Great...and I'm someone...if I put big money in something and it is up over 100% two years to date...I am taking the W

[Kblaze8855]

****ing Bobby Axelrod over here.

[DMAVS41]

****ing Bobby Axelrod over here.

Hahaha

[8Ball]

But that isn't the investment thesis on Bitcoin...that it will for sure go up.

The investment thesis is a broken monetary policy of the governments that inflate currency combined with the ability to transfer value across the world in minutes without a 3rd party...a transparent currency that no one person controls and a fixed supply.

The whole volatility is a reflection of everyone trying to determine what value that actually has in the world combined with how liquid it is 24/7.

I have no idea if price will rebound or it will fade away...etc...but to act like there isn't something unique and potentially special about bitcoin and that it is only about NGU (number go up)...I think misses the real issues here.

And, I will say, Americans are often quite biased when it comes to currency...try living in some other places in the world where you see your money get inflated away at absurd percentages....Bitcoin going up and making higher lows most years sounds really appealing in the face of that.

Thanks for your detailed serious answer.

If you make the case for bitcoin in terms of a currency, you run into a few problems:

1) Many large bitcoin whales are simple hodlers, so they stack bitcoin in their online / offline vault. Gold used to be a currency, now its mostly used as a lump of rock that stores people's values since most gold buyers just hold it.

2) Humans need price stability for a currency in order to transact. People won't adopt a currency that appreciates or depreciates in value rapidly in timespans of a month.

3) The majority of normal low level human transactions are already done with debt card / credit / cash and bitcoin doesn't provide a faster / better way for humans to do that. So the consumer argument for currency isn't won.

4) Banks and multinationals are the ones that send "money" back and forth internationally across borders which sometimes takes longer than bitcoin to do. But do you see banks and multinationals adopting bitcoin as their currency to send money back and forth?

Banks uses the ancient SWIFT system and if they replace SWIFT with another method, they will create their own
Multinationals I predict will continue to use banks as processing since there is safety of banks being able to reverse a transaction. Also most multinationals don't need 10 min transactions and can wait 24 hours for it to happen.



Now the argument that your dollars are inflating away. I get that point, but having a currency where the government can inflate to manage society is extremely valuable in managing an economy.

A government cannot function with a currency that it can't magically print within reason. The booms and busts are too volatile and can break a government if they aren't able to deflate their currency and make their exports more attractive.

So if you say the "monetary" system is broken. The government controls that and people in that country are bound by the system. I don't see major governments adopting bitcoin since it is against their interest to do so.

[8Ball]

Again, there is an opportunity cost to all decisions in life.

I disagree about your list as well....you can't look at 1 year and make these types of claims.

Bitcoin has doubled in the last 2 years to date....seems like a pretty good inflation hedge to me on that timeframe.

Adoption has absolutely increased...you can see it on the blockchain...more addresses holding coins...especially when looking at addresses holding 1 coin or less.

Bitcoin is decentralized...why are you saying that failed?

You have to match bitcoin's price fluctuation with the actual inflation that was happening. 8% inflation was only there in 2021 and onwards.

In terms of centralization, too many whales have the ability to swing the price of bitcoin by a whim just because they accumulated way too much. Igor Makarov, a bitcoin researcher calculated that Michael Saylor dumping all his bitcoins can have up to 50% price depreciation of bitcoin.

1 man could create another price dump of massive magnitude.

His research is here:

https://personal.lse.ac.uk/makarov1/research.html

Podcast with him explaining all the data he aggregated:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-crypto-2-igor-makarov-economics-of/id1426530582?i=1000565943537

[DMAVS41]

Thanks for your detailed serious answer.

If you make the case for bitcoin in terms of a currency, you run into a few problems:

1) Many large bitcoin whales are simple hodlers, so they stack bitcoin in their online / offline vault. Gold used to be a currency, now its mostly used as a lump of rock that stores people's values since most gold buyers just hold it.

2) Humans need price stability for a currency in order to transact. People won't adopt a currency that appreciates or depreciates in value rapidly in timespans of a month.

3) The majority of normal low level human transactions are already done with debt / credit / cash and bitcoin doesn't provide a faster / better way for humans to do that. So the consumer argument for currency isn't won.

4) Banks and multinationals are the ones that send "money" back and forth internationally across borders which sometimes takes longer than bitcoin to do. But do you see banks and multinationals adopting bitcoin as their currency to send money back and forth?

Banks uses the ancient SWIFT system and if they replace SWIFT with another method, they will create their own
Multinationals I predict will continue to use banks as processing since there is safety of banks being able to reverse a transaction. Also most multinationals don't need 10 min transactions and can wait 24 hours for it to happen.



Now the argument that your dollars are inflating away. I get that point, but having a currency where the government can inflate to manage society is extremely valuable in managing an economy.

A government cannot function with a currency that it can't magically print within reason. The booms and busts are too volatile and can break a government if they aren't able to deflate their currency and make their exports more attractive.

I don't think it is a currency at this point...

I mean...it is in the sense that you can use BTC buy things, but the volatility prevents it from being used reliably unless you are operating in very short timeframes.

To respond to your points...

1) I agree...Bitcoin is a better version of gold that doesn't need a trusted 3rd party and can easily be transported around the world both digitally and physically

2) I agree...in terms of the "currency"...I disagree that people won't adopt Bitcoin because of volatility...I think this is demonstrably false based on what we've seen. A huge level of adoption that continues to grow over time.

3) I am kind of in the middle here. I take your point, but Bitcoin actually is faster...when you buy something with a credit card...the final settlement can essentially take months as one can dispute transactions for a long time when using cards. Bitcoin has full final settlement often weeks or months before a credit card.

4) Banks are adopting it...hell, my local bank just sent me an email about it. But remittance payments across borders are a real thing and affect millions of people. BTC is good for that...also really good for any gambling as well...no bank or credit card company to tell you how you spend your money. Just need a personal wallet and some btc

I actually don't think it will be the world reserve currency as some maxi's do...I don't think that makes sense...I do think that they volatility will dramatically slow over time if it doesn't go to 0...think decades...not years...and will then be used more reliably, but in the end I really think you just have digital gold

What is that worth? I don't know...my guess is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per coin range at some point...but there is a reason I sell on the way up...nothing is certain

[8Ball]

Good discussion.

I am going go to bed but whatever you guys write in response I will reply tomorrow in depth and detail.

[DMAVS41]

You have to match bitcoin's price fluctuation with the actual inflation that was happening. 8% inflation was only there in 2021 and onwards.

In terms of centralization, too many whales have the ability to swing the price of bitcoin by a whim just because they accumulated way too much. Igor Makarov, a bitcoin researcher calculated that Michael Saylor dumping all his bitcoins can have up to 50% price depreciation of bitcoin.

1 man could create another price dump of massive magnitude.

His research is here:

https://personal.lse.ac.uk/makarov1/research.html

Podcast with him explaining all the data he aggregated:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understanding-crypto-2-igor-makarov-economics-of/id1426530582?i=1000565943537

I disagree. I think real inflation has been a problem far longer and not limited to just 2021 onwards.

In the last 2 years...my life expenses have gotten roughly 25% more expensive dating back to two years to date....and plenty of people that do things beyond just eat and watch Netflix have experienced this.

But that wasn't even my point....my point is that timeframes are arbitrary and judging Bitcoin on a 1 year basis is no different than judging it on a 5 year basis...just arbitrary to draw a line in the sand.

Very familiar with Saylor...I appreciate him pumping my bags for two years....but yes...there is a ton of risk in the system and Saylor dumping on everyone would probably cause a sell-off under 10k imo.

Again though...short term price fluctuations are above my pay grade...I think BTC offers real value as I have explained...not even touching on things like potentially stabilizing the energy grid like they are trying to do in Texas...

Could be wrong...but I think the risk/reward warrants an allocation. So far so good...but nothing is certain.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Great...and I'm someone...if I put big money in something and it is up over 100% two years to date...I am taking the W

Sweet, when bitcoin hits 120k next year I'll tell these guys to sell and take their W.

No way it stays dead for multiple years. Because we've never seen that.

[DMAVS41]

Sweet, when bitcoin hits 120k next year I'll tell these guys to sell and take their W.

No way it stays dead for multiple years. Because we've never seen that.

Well, yes...one should take profit in huge upward moves in an asset known for extreme price swings

Hope it rebounds, but you never know...the current environment is total shit for risk-on investments and not a lot of liquidity out there. I tell the people I know to basically forget it exists until 2025 if they didn't over extend themselves....if they did...probably in for some brutal times

[nayte]

I get what alt acc is saying about missed opportunities.while your waiting for btc or any investment to come to fruition but prefer the dmavs and kblaze way for myself

[8Ball]

I don't think it is a currency at this point...

I mean...it is in the sense that you can use BTC buy things, but the volatility prevents it from being used reliably unless you are operating in very short timeframes.

To respond to your points...

1) I agree...Bitcoin is a better version of gold that doesn't need a trusted 3rd party and can easily be transported around the world both digitally and physically

2) I agree...in terms of the "currency"...I disagree that people won't adopt Bitcoin because of volatility...I think this is demonstrably false based on what we've seen. A huge level of adoption that continues to grow over time.

3) I am kind of in the middle here. I take your point, but Bitcoin actually is faster...when you buy something with a credit card...the final settlement can essentially take months as one can dispute transactions for a long time when using cards. Bitcoin has full final settlement often weeks or months before a credit card.

4) Banks are adopting it...hell, my local bank just sent me an email about it. But remittance payments across borders are a real thing and affect millions of people. BTC is good for that...also really good for any gambling as well...no bank or credit card company to tell you how you spend your money. Just need a personal wallet and some btc

I actually don't think it will be the world reserve currency as some maxi's do...I don't think that makes sense...I do think that they volatility will dramatically slow over time if it doesn't go to 0...think decades...not years...and will then be used more reliably, but in the end I really think you just have digital gold

What is that worth? I don't know...my guess is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per coin range at some point...but there is a reason I sell on the way up...nothing is certain

2) People need stability in currency in order to use it. It goes both ways between buyer and seller. One party will regret making the transaction if there are massive price swings in the other direction.

3) Consumers don't care that final settlement takes months. The transaction happens in 4 seconds, in and out. You can login online and see your credit card balance change. What they see is important.

4) What you described is a minor percentage of the entire transaction universe. Multinationals will continue to use banks and banks will create their own digital currency, not adopt bitcoin to make large inter country transfers.


Congrats to you if you sold on the way up. That's the smart way to do it. The allin hodlers like Michael Saylor are not doing bitcoin any favours long term.

[8Ball]

I disagree. I think real inflation has been a problem far longer and not limited to just 2021 onwards.

In the last 2 years...my life expenses have gotten roughly 25% more expensive dating back to two years to date....and plenty of people that do things beyond just eat and watch Netflix have experienced this.

But that wasn't even my point....my point is that timeframes are arbitrary and judging Bitcoin on a 1 year basis is no different than judging it on a 5 year basis...just arbitrary to draw a line in the sand.

Very familiar with Saylor...I appreciate him pumping my bags for two years....but yes...there is a ton of risk in the system and Saylor dumping on everyone would probably cause a sell-off under 10k imo.

Again though...short term price fluctuations are above my pay grade...I think BTC offers real value as I have explained...not even touching on things like potentially stabilizing the energy grid like they are trying to do in Texas...

Could be wrong...but I think the risk/reward warrants an allocation. So far so good...but nothing is certain.

You can be perfectly correct and bitcoin jumps to 200K and you come back here and gloat to 8ball "hahaha 8ball you were wrong".

I am making the argument that if bitcoin is that volatile as it has been in the last 5 years, how much of your portfolio should you be putting into it?

5%?
10%?
50%?

It doesn't hedge against inflation, its not a widespread currency, and it isn't a great store of value. Yes it ran up a lot since late 2020, but if you bought bitcoin in late 2020, and 2021, it was not a great store of value for you. It's a highly volatile asset that can make you a lot of money buying low and selling high.

But if that's your thesis, you may be right, just don't take the kblaze approach and tell your not so educated on bitcoin friends to get into it.

[nayte]

I and my family have a lot in property. Been thinking about btc but admit I'm not the most clued up in in. Been thinking about selling of and buying crypto

[8Ball]

Well, yes...one should take profit in huge upward moves in an asset known for extreme price swings

Hope it rebounds, but you never know...the current environment is total shit for risk-on investments and not a lot of liquidity out there. I tell the people I know to basically forget it exists until 2025 if they didn't over extend themselves....if they did...probably in for some brutal times


The only asset that has been a great "buy it and forget it" with low volatility is real estate.

It's nearly impossible to "forget it" if it runs up $50K again, then down to $30K and up to $100K. Too much volatility.

[8Ball]

I and my family have a lot in property. Been thinking about btc but admit I'm not the most clued up in in. Been thinking about selling of and buying crypto

Why not just buy more real estate if you are already in the business.

[nayte]

We can. And probs will.
I won't deny I'm trying to go in a bit of another direction just to mix it up.maybe that's me trying to stamp my family on a new path.

I looked at nfts glad I didn't do it lol

[DMAVS41]

2) People need stability in currency in order to use it. It goes both ways between buyer and seller. One party will regret making the transaction if there are massive price swings in the other direction.

3) Consumers don't care that final settlement takes months. The transaction happens in 4 seconds, in and out. You can login online and see your credit card balance change. What they see is important.

4) What you described is a minor percentage of the entire transaction universe. Multinationals will continue to use banks and banks will create their own digital currency, not adopt bitcoin to make large inter country transfers.


Congrats to you if you sold on the way up. That's the smart way to do it. The allin hodlers like Michael Saylor are not doing bitcoin any favours long term.

2) Completely agree. It is not a reliable currency yet and might never get there...I think it is best described as digital gold or gold 2.0...and as it is in its infancy...has massive risk / reward potential

3) Agree that consumers do not care, but the people selling or providing services very much care about final settlement.

4) Of course it is minor...this is a technology in its infancy that is trying to transform, in part, legacy finance...this is why it is so volatile...it is speculative as the people of the world / market are trying to determine what, if anything, it is actually worth. It isn't worth nearly as much when the cost of capital goes up, there is energy shortages, potential world war...and people all over the world have less purchasing power. In the short term...the idea of bitcoin isn't something most have the luxury of dabbling in during rough times. Combine that with how liquid it is 24/7...and you see the current environment. Where I think we differ is that the current environment doesn't change any of the core principles or attributes of why I think Bitcoin has real value.

Ultimately my view is that this is just another financial asset for people and institutions alike to use...I don't think Bitcoin needs banks to adopt it as their preferred method of transfer for it to succeed.

Yea, taking some profit after massive gains on any investment is always a good idea. How much to sell is difficult, but with something this volatile...you have to sell a little even if you are a true believer iimo.

Saylor is interesting. He has definitely opened himself and his company up to getting squeezed given his position is so big and public. For me...even if that were to happen...as long as it doesn't kill BTC...I actually think it would make is stronger.

I'd like to see a spot BTC ETF in the next 2 years...starting with Grayscale converting...I think that could / will be the next driving force for adoption...when it becomes easy for people / institutions to allocate a small percentage of their large portfolios to this asset.

It might not happen though...or it might take 10 years for that happen if it does. That was the point of Blaze...a lot of us in the BTC community got in (of course for investment) because of changing the corrupt monetary environment that legacy finance has created. I personally view it as mostly a..."I'm going to give this to my grandchildren in 40 years if I'm lucky to be alive" type investment.

[DMAVS41]

The only asset that has been a great "buy it and forget it" with low volatility is real estate.

It's nearly impossible to "forget it" if it runs up $50K again, then down to $30K and up to $100K. Too much volatility.

It depends on one's position in terms of allocation. You are right if someone goes in too heavy...but if someone worth a million buys 1 BTC and 10 ETH right now...just as an example...super easy to put it on a hard wallet in a safety deposit box and go on with life. I know plenty of people that have done just that...some had literally forgot they had it until I reminded them during the bull run.

Real estate is great...well, residential real estate in quality areas is great...but that prices out a majority of Americans...and residential real estate can also be volatile...it crashed in 2008 and if we are talking short-term...homes are up anywhere from like 20 to 60 percent in the last 1.5 years in the United States.

And if you can't afford a 20% down payment, which most can't, interest eats you alive over the life of your mortgage...not to mention the rising rates basically making it impossible for your average person to afford the monthly payments now.

I love home ownership, but it has a high bar of entry...

I'm not arguing Bitcoin is better or something...just different....you need a lot more capital to do home ownership correctly whereas Bitcoin could be something like 10 dollars a week invested

[8Ball]

We can. And probs will.
I won't deny I'm trying to go in a bit of another direction just to mix it up.maybe that's me trying to stamp my family on a new path.

I looked at nfts glad I didn't do it lol

I started buying multi family when I was in my early 20s. There are rarely ever years where property prices go up 20%+.

But real estate allows you to leverage at low interest rates to buy more real estate.

You don't have explosive wealth gains, but you secure wealth gains at very low volatility. That's important.

[8Ball]

It depends on one's position in terms of allocation. You are right if someone goes in too heavy...but if someone worth a million buys 1 BTC and 10 ETH right now...just as an example...super easy to put it on a hard wallet in a safety deposit box and go on with life. I know plenty of people that have done just that...some had literally forgot they had it until I reminded them during the bull run.

Real estate is great...well, residential real estate in quality areas is great...but that prices out a majority of Americans...and residential real estate can also be volatile...it crashed in 2008 and if we are talking short-term...homes are up anywhere from like 20 to 60 percent in the last 1.5 years in the United States.

And if you can't afford a 20% down payment, which most can't, interest eats you alive over the life of your mortgage...not to mention the rising rates basically making it impossible for your average person to afford the monthly payments now.

I love home ownership, but it has a high bar of entry...

I'm not arguing Bitcoin is better or something...just different....you need a lot more capital to do home ownership correctly whereas Bitcoin could be something like 10 dollars a week invested

I agree with this.

However, it's one thing for rich investors to allocate a small % of their portfolio to bitcoin, Ray Dalio started doing that. The only thing is the small time DCA investor will just end up accumulating too much of his wealth in a volatile asset.

[DMAVS41]

I agree with this.

However, it's one thing for rich investors to allocate a small % of their portfolio to bitcoin, Ray Dalio started doing that. The only thing is the small time DCA investor will just end up accumulating too much of his wealth in a volatile asset.

It depends on how much they daily cost average in, when / if they sell, their time horizon, and their risk tolerance.

I completely agree that there is the risk you describe, but that risk isn't unique to Bitcoin...hell, someone cost averaging into the nasdaq has lost like 30% year to date...nothing is a sure thing.

[8Ball]

2) Completely agree. It is not a reliable currency yet and might never get there...I think it is best described as digital gold or gold 2.0...and as it is in its infancy...has massive risk / reward potential

3) Agree that consumers do not care, but the people selling or providing services very much care about final settlement.

4) Of course it is minor...this is a technology in its infancy that is trying to transform, in part, legacy finance...this is why it is so volatile...it is speculative as the people of the world / market are trying to determine what, if anything, it is actually worth. It isn't worth nearly as much when the cost of capital goes up, there is energy shortages, potential world war...and people all over the world have less purchasing power. In the short term...the idea of bitcoin isn't something most have the luxury of dabbling in during rough times. Combine that with how liquid it is 24/7...and you see the current environment. Where I think we differ is that the current environment doesn't change any of the core principles or attributes of why I think Bitcoin has real value.

Ultimately my view is that this is just another financial asset for people and institutions alike to use...I don't think Bitcoin needs banks to adopt it as their preferred method of transfer for it to succeed.

Yea, taking some profit after massive gains on any investment is always a good idea. How much to sell is difficult, but with something this volatile...you have to sell a little even if you are a true believer iimo.

Saylor is interesting. He has definitely opened himself and his company up to getting squeezed given his position is so big and public. For me...even if that were to happen...as long as it doesn't kill BTC...I actually think it would make is stronger.

I'd like to see a spot BTC ETF in the next 2 years...starting with Grayscale converting...I think that could / will be the next driving force for adoption...when it becomes easy for people / institutions to allocate a small percentage of their large portfolios to this asset.

It might not happen though...or it might take 10 years for that happen if it does. That was the point of Blaze...a lot of us in the BTC community got in (of course for investment) because of changing the corrupt monetary environment that legacy finance has created. I personally view it as mostly a..."I'm going to give this to my grandchildren in 40 years if I'm lucky to be alive" type investment.

We will see about bitcoin adoption amongst financial institutions. If you are right about it even if bitcoin doesn't go up in price. I will admit I was wrong.


The only investment thesis I really see with bitcoin is that if enough world governments monkey around with currencies and economies ala 2009 financial crisis and 2020 money printing.... enough people will become disillusioned and put their money into alternative assets, which is already happening. If enough people do that world wide, give the finger to legacy financial system, bitcoin can continue to run up in price.

The biggest counter argument to that thesis is that people can't eat or live off crypto. In a market downturn, job losses, recession, high unemployment, people will liquidate their stocks and crypto first to pay rent and eat.

We'll see.

I disagree that crypto will continue to run up, but there's a possibility it is. What that % is varies from investor to investor.

[nayte]

I started buying multi family when I was in my early 20s. There are rarely ever years where property prices go up 20%+.

But real estate allows you to leverage at low interest rates to buy more real estate.

You don't have explosive wealth gains, but you secure wealth gains at very low volatility. That's important.

Yeah I know what your saying. We have decent growth year after year and there is no real reason to buck that trend.property values keep on rising especially beachfront which we have a bit of.
As I said maybe I'm trying a bit to hard when should just stick with what works

[Shogon]

You guys need only remember three words... math always wins.

[nayte]

Eh math doesn't win or lose it just is

[Shogon]

Eh math doesn't win or lose it just is

True, but it is people that try to make it lose. People lose. Math wins. Every time.

[8Ball]

You guys need only remember three words... math always wins.

Yessir Shogon, math always win.

The math isn't always on your side though.