Andrew Wiggins, 2nd Best Player on a Championship Team

[Ass Dan]

Undeniable fact

Avoid
The Noid

He ruins pizzas

[TAZORAC]

I don't think he was the 2nd best player, I think it was like 2a 2b 2c between Poole, Thompson and Wiggins

[TheGoatest]

At 16.5 ppg in the playoffs, he averaged more than Dwyane Wade's 15.9 in the 2013 playoffs, but still less than any jordon #2 scoring playoff teammate ever did in a playoff run.
The perfect "mama bear" amount of playoff ppgs averaged.

[Axe]

18 ppg on 51 ts in his finals debut is a lot better than kobe's 16 ppg on 41 ts in the 2000 finals.

[Ass Dan]

I don't think he was the 2nd best player, I think it was like 2a 2b 2c between Poole, Thompson and Wiggins

Stop it.

You know you’re wrong.

Wiggins was better on offense and MIIIIIIIIILES better on D.

[Wally450]

Wiggins lit it up. Second best player easily.

[Atlantis]

He couldn't miss a mid range jumper. Wiggins gets contested, 2 pt buckets.

[3ba11]

Imagine if rookie Wiggins played with Curry and won a few chips

By 2020, Wiggins would be considered HOF

But instead, he didn't play with Curry until later in his career when a negative perception was already set - so instead of being HOF like Pippen was at this stage, he's perceived as a lesser player..

I'm not saying Wiggins is underrated - I'm saying Pippen is overrated and simply latched onto a dynasty sooner than Wiggins did.. If Pippen was drafted to Houston or the Blazers - we already saw the garbage that Pippen was

It's funny because Wiggins was still a 20 ppg player outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle

[AlternativeAcc.]

Imagine if rookie Wiggins played with Curry and won a few chips

By 2020, Wiggins would be considered HOF

But instead, he didn't play with Curry until later in his career when a negative perception was already set - so instead of being HOF like Pippen was at this stage, he's perceived as a lesser player..

I'm not saying Wiggins is underrated - I'm saying Pippen is overrated and simply latched onto a dynasty sooner than Wiggins did.. If Pippen was drafted to Houston or the Blazers - we already saw the garbage that Pippen was

Hes perceived as an important cog on a stacked team... nothing more

Pippen without Jordan won 55 games, finished 3rd in MVP, and according to Phil and many others was the best all around player in basketball...

And pippens skillet wasn't even suited as a 1st option... but as a 2nd option he's GOAT caliber like Pau. 2nd option is more about fit than talent in a vacuum. Everybody knows this...

[3ba11]

Hes perceived as an important cog on a stacked team... nothing more

Pippen without Jordan won 55 games, finished 3rd in MVP, and according to Phil and many others to be the best all around player in basketball...

And pippens skillet wasn't even suited as a 1st option... but as a 2nd option he's GOAT caliber like Pau. 2nd option is more about fit than talent in a vacuum. Everybody knows this...


Pippen had a 3-peat dynasty - he didn't lead a bad team to 50+ wins like 88' Jordan

Pippen only needed 22 ppg to win 50+ because he had a dynasty brand of ball, while 88' Jordan averaged 35 because it was a rookie team

The Bulls had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 without him - and it was a lucky one-off;based on a no pressure and no expectation honeymoon period - when that honeymoon ended in the 94' Playoffs, the REAL bulls without mj were borderline lottery in 95' until MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber.

1st options are supposed to grow a team every year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months

[AlternativeAcc.]

Pippen had a 3-peat dynasty - he didn't lead a bad team to 50+ wins like 88' Jordan

Pippen only needed 22 ppg to win 50+ because he had a dynasty brand of ball, while 88' Jordan averaged 35 because it was a rookie team

The Bulls had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 without him - and it was a lucky one-off;based on a no pressure and no expectation honeymoon period - when that honeymoon ended in the 94' Playoffs, the REAL bulls without mj were borderline lottery in 95' until MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber.

1st options are supposed to grow a team every year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months

Like I said, his skillet wasn't suited for 1st option but he still peaked much higher than Wiggins is capable of, due to being light years better as a playmaker

Curry was literally lottery just last year... so blaming Pippen on a small sample size is weak...

We know Pippen as a 2nd option is GOAT caliber like Pau, and 2nd option is more about fit than talent in a vacuum

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen had a 3-peat dynasty - he didn't lead a bad team to 50+ wins like 88' Jordan

Pippen only needed 22 ppg to win 50+ because he had a dynasty brand of ball, while 88' Jordan averaged 35 because it was a rookie team

The Bulls had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 without him - and it was a lucky one-off;based on a no pressure and no expectation honeymoon period - when that honeymoon ended in the 94' Playoffs, the REAL bulls without mj were borderline lottery in 95' until MJ returned to restore 3-peat caliber.

1st options are supposed to grow a team every year, but Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months
I literally just called him out on this and he's still spouting this bullshit. The Bulls were NINE games out from missing the playoffs when Jordan came back, not even close to "borderline" :lol

[AlternativeAcc.]

I literally just called him out on this and he's still spouting this bullshit. The Bulls were NINE games out from missing the playoffs when Jordan came back, not even close to "borderline" :lol

:roll:

Good catch

[3ba11]

Like I said, his skillet wasn't suited for 1st option but he still peaked much higher than Wiggins is capable of, due to being light years better as a playmaker

Curry was literally lottery just last year... so blaming Pippen on a small sample size is weak...

We know Pippen as a 2nd option is GOAT caliber like Pau, and 2nd option is more about fit than talent in a vacuum


Pippen Finals Career...... 19 on 42%
Wiggins 22' Finals.......... 18 on 45%


^^^^ the only difference between Wiggins and Pippen is that Pippen started winning with MJ early in his career, so he never developed a negative perception like Wiggins.

That's the only reason you think Pippen is better - you're fooled by the fact that Pippen got to win 6 rings by playing with MJ early in his career, while Wiggins only has 1 because he only recently joined Curry

If Wiggins had started winning with Curry early in his career, he would already be HOF like Pippen

The reality is that Wiggins is far superior to Pippen because Wiggins is still a 20 ppg scorer outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle.

[Hey Yo]

I literally just called him out on this and he's still spouting this bullshit. The Bulls were NINE games out from missing the playoffs when Jordan came back, not even close to "borderline" :lol

They only needed 3 wins in the last 17gms to secure a playoff spot. Easily would have done that without MJ.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Pippen Finals Career...... 19 on 42%
Wiggins 22' Finals.......... 18 on 45%


^^^^ the only difference between Wiggins and Pippen is that Pippen started winning with MJ early in his career, so he never developed a negative perception like Wiggins.

That's the only reason you think Pippen is better - you're fooled by the fact that Pippen got to win 6 rings by playing with MJ early in his career, while Wiggins only has 1 because he only recently joined Curry

If Wiggins had started winning with Curry early in his career, he would already be HOF like Pippen

The reality is that Wiggins is far superior to Pippen because Wiggins is still a 20 ppg scorer outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle.

So ppg determines whose better

That means JJ Redick is better than Draymond Green, and many other bums are better than Dray

That means Harden, Westbrick, and several others are light years better than Clyde Drexler even though you've made arguments for Clyde in the past

[Hey Yo]

Wiggins actually shot 44% in the finals.

More lies by 3fag

[ShawkFactory]

So ppg determines whose better

That means JJ Redick is better than Draymond Green, and many other bums are better than Dray

That means Harden, Westbrick, and several others are light years better than Clyde Drexler even though you've made arguments for Clyde in the past

Bradley Beal >>>>> Reggie Miller

[AlternativeAcc.]

Bradley Beal >>>>> Reggie Miller

Redick > Stockton

Harden > Bird

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg



So ppg determines whose better

That means JJ Redick is better than Draymond Green, and many other bums are better than Dray

That means Harden, Westbrick, and several others are light years better than Clyde Drexler even though you've made arguments for Clyde in the past


2nd option means 2nd scoring option

2nd scoring options must score efficiently - Pippen obviously failed at both (see chart above)

So you can't talk about 2nd options without talking about scoring - that's the most important thing a 2nd scoring option does.

And Pippen was more like Klay or Wiggins - a secondary scorer that required their 1st option to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

Otoh, all-time scorers that play sidekick like Kareem, Wade, AD, Kyrie, etc - these all-time scorers don't require the 1st option to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).. So Lebron has it much easier than Curry/MJ, who had secondary scorers at sidekick that required them to carry scoring load (defeat maximum defensive attention)

[SouBeachTalents]

Bradley Beal >>>>> Reggie Miller
Also means LeBron > everybody in his top 10 besides Jordan.

[tpols]

So ppg determines whose better

That means JJ Redick is better than Draymond Green, and many other bums are better than Dray

That means Harden, Westbrick, and several others are light years better than Clyde Drexler even though you've made arguments for Clyde in the past


What? Wiggins played elite defense in this run too just like Pippen. He shut down Tatum when he was having a monster playoff run. Pippen a better passer, Wiggins a better scorer and shooter. Overall similar caliber players.

But outside of a dynasty system Wiggins was nothing special just like Pippen on the Rockets and Blazers.

It took GOAT talents in Curry and Jordan and GOAT cultures / systems like the ones Phil and Kerr set up to put players like Pippen and Wiggins in a position for a hall of fame career they wouldn't have otherwise had.

This is what's known as a players legacy being enhanced by the winning spotlight.

[ShawkFactory]

What? Wiggins played elite defense in this run too just like Pippen. He shut down Tatum when he was having a monster playoff run. Pippen a better passer, Wiggins a better scorer and shooter. Overall similar caliber players.

But outside of a dynasty system Wiggins was nothing special just like Pippen on the Rockets and Blazers.

It took GOAT talents in Curry and Jordan and GOAT cultures / systems like the ones Phil and Kerr set up to put players like Pippen and Wiggins in a position for a hall of fame career they wouldn't have otherwise had.

This is what's known as a players legacy being enhanced by the winning spotlight.

You have copy/pasted something that has been copy/pasted. 3rd level non-thinking.

[tpols]

You have copy/pasted something that has been copy/pasted. 3rd level non-thinking.

Those were all my words and true. You guys said that ppg was being over focused on but we can break down all aspects of the game and come to a holistic non cherrypicked conclusion like the one presented to you. The problem is you can't refute it. Bringing up non defenders like JJReddick... that would be valid if Wiggins didn't play elite defense. But he did.

[ShawkFactory]

Those were all my words and true. You guys said that ppg was being over focused on but we can break down all aspects of the game and come to a holistic non cherrypicked conclusion like the one presented to you. The problem is you can't refute it. Bringing up non defenders like JJReddick... that would be valid if Wiggins didn't play elite defense. But he did.

Can’t refute what? That based on these 6 games where he somewhat equaled his raw PPG total and played good defense that Wiggins = Pippen?

It doesn’t need refuting. Doing so is a waste of time and someone even insinuating that it’s an actual argument isn’t worth arguing against.

[Cleverness]

Imagine if rookie Wiggins played with Curry and won a few chips

By 2020, Wiggins would be considered HOF

But instead, he didn't play with Curry until later in his career when a negative perception was already set - so instead of being HOF like Pippen was at this stage, he's perceived as a lesser player..

I'm not saying Wiggins is underrated - I'm saying Pippen is overrated and simply latched onto a dynasty sooner than Wiggins did.. If Pippen was drafted to Houston or the Blazers - we already saw the garbage that Pippen was

It's funny because Wiggins was still a 20 ppg player outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle

https://twitter.com/EmmanuelAcho/status/1539721146018324480

"Curry turned a top 5 bust of the modern generation into a top 5 two-way player." :pimp:

[3ba11]

Can’t refute what? That based on these 6 games where he somewhat equaled his raw PPG total and played good defense that Wiggins = Pippen?





:biggums:

Wiggins has always been a superior scorer than Pippen, whether he played in a dynasty system or not

Pippen couldn't score outside the dynasty system - he was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle, while Wiggins has always been a 18-24 ppg player

Wiggins was a prodigy #1 pick and Pippen was a towel boy that was lucky to latch onto the goat dynasty, where he was a low-producer and carried in virtually every series.

[ClipperRevival]

When people look back at this series, Wiggy's stats won't tell the true story of just how impactful he was. He was consistent the entire series and was the best player in game 5 and amazing in game 6. They NEEDED that game 5 from him to win. His rebdounding/activity was off the charts. He also took Tatum's soul.

[3ba11]

When people look back at this series, Wiggy's stats won't tell the true story of just how impactful he was. He was consistent the entire series and was the best player in game 5 and amazing in game 6. They NEEDED that game 5 from him to win. His rebdounding/activity was off the charts. He also took Tatum's soul.


^^^ All of that is true

and yet Wiggins is literally nothing compared to AD, Wade or Kyrie averaging 25+ in the Finals and nearly matching their 1st option.

Wiggins is a secondary scorer like Klay or Pippen and it's a lot harder to win with lower-producing hustle guys than juggernaut 1st options like AD that lead the entire league in playoff scoring

[Axe]

^^^ All of that is true

and yet Wiggins is literally nothing compared to AD, Wade or Kyrie averaging 25+ in the Finals and nearly matching their 1st option.

Wiggins is a secondary scorer like Klay or Pippen and it's a lot harder to win with lower-producing hustle guys than juggernaut 1st options like AD that lead the entire league in playoff scoring
2022 wiggins > 2000 kobe

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ All of that is true

and yet Wiggins is literally nothing compared to AD, Wade or Kyrie averaging 25+ in the Finals and nearly matching their 1st option.

Wiggins is a secondary scorer like Klay or Pippen and it's a lot harder to win with lower-producing hustle guys than juggernaut 1st options like AD that lead the entire league in playoff scoring
Gasol outscored both first options in the '09 & '10 Finals.

[Full Court]

I don't think he was the 2nd best player, I think it was like 2a 2b 2c between Poole, Thompson and Wiggins

I thought Wiggins was the pretty clear-cut second best player. Pool and Thompson had their moments, but Wiggins was to the Warriors was Middleton was to the Bucks last year.

[3ba11]

Gasol outscored both first options in the '09 & '10 Finals.


Did Pau lead the league in playoff scoring like 2020 AD and win the Magic Johnson MVP award for dominating the WCF (carrying the Lakers to the Finals)?..

Because that's what AD did

[SouBeachTalents]

Did Pau lead the league in playoff scoring like 2020 AD and win the Magic Johnson MVP award for dominating the WCF (carrying the Lakers to the Finals)?..

Because that's what AD did
The award didn't exist in 2020 doofus :lol Pau did score more in both title runs than 2013 Wade though.

[3ba11]

Ball-dominators can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand of ball to beat Finals teams, so they need all-time scorers and elite 1st options to play sidekick like AD, Wade or Kyrie

Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry or MJ can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers like Klay, Pippen or Wiggins