Why were people so hard on Dray's scoring when he's 6th option?

[Shooter]

Curry
Wiggins
Poole
Klay
GP2/Looney
Draymond

He was the team's 6th option and a defensive specialist. Did we focus on Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace's scoring?

Didn't think so.

Is this just how stacked the Warriors are that we expect their 6th option defensive anchor to be a scoring machine as well?

[tontoz]

Feel free to post a starter in NBA history who scored at a comparable level to Dray's 6 ppg with a 39% TS. For the series he actually had more turnovers than field goals. :oldlol:







https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/IMG_20220602_223539.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

He’s only taken 10 shots 9 times this entire season(regular and post season combined). I don’t even think I need the shooting numbers of a guy like him. Maybe for a shooting role player. For a DPOY playmaker type? I don’t really care what Dray, Rodman, Ben Wallace, or whoever shoots from the field when they take 5 shots but make my defense.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Warriors had 4 players who shot >36% from 3 during the season, the Celtics had zero.

But we're worried about Drays scoring when he's the best defender ever possibly, while being the clear vocal and emotional leader of the team (aka the glue)

:oldlol:

Curry stans are a desperate group.

[Shooter]

He’s only taken 10 shots 9 times this entire season(regular and post season combined). I don’t even think I need the shooting numbers of a guy like him. Maybe for a shooting role player. For a DPOY playmaker type? I don’t really care what Dray, Rodman, Ben Wallace, or whoever shoots from the field when they take 5 shots but make my defense.

Precisely. Thank you my good sir.

[tontoz]

He’s only taken 10 shots 9 times this entire season(regular and post season combined). I don’t even think I need the shooting numbers of a guy like him. Maybe for a shooting role player. For a DPOY playmaker type? I don’t really care what Dray, Rodman, Ben Wallace, or whoever shoots from the field when they take 5 shots but make my defense.


Rodman and Wallace didn't handle the ball and they played in an era when spacing wasn't as much of an issue.

Aren't you the guy who is always going on and on about the differences in eras?

[tpols]

Feel free to post a starter in NBA history who scored at a comparable level to Dray's 6 ppg with a 39% TS. For the series he actually had more turnovers than field goals. :oldlol:


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/IMG_20220602_223539.jpg


That's absolutely preposterous. :roll:

I can't imagine how good the warriors would be with a guy like even Al Horford. Who shot on 77 TS while actually,being guarded.

Somebody who can play defense and shoot just a little. If the dubs ever got a stretch 4 their spacing would be truly game breaking

[Kblaze8855]

Apparently it isn’t that big an issue now either. He shot 26% or less from 3 on 4 finals runs 3 of them leading to titles. It’s obviously not why he’s out there.

[tontoz]

Apparently it isn’t that big an issue now either. He shot 26% or less from 3 on 4 finals runs 3 of them leading to titles. It’s obviously not why he’s out there.


It absolutely is a big issue. Lucky for him he plays with the best shooter in NBA history who is elite on or off the ball.

The offense collapsed whenever Steph went to the bench and Dray is a big reason why.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It absolutely is a big issue. Lucky for him he plays with the best shooter in NBA history who is elite on or off the ball.

The offense collapsed whenever Steph went to the bench and Dray is a big reason why.

Dray leads steph in playoff +/- by over a 100 points

[tontoz]

Dray leads steph in playoff +/- by over a 100 points

Dray used to be far better on offense. This isn't 2016 try to keep up.

[Kblaze8855]

It absolutely is a big issue. Lucky for him he plays with the best shooter in NBA history who is elite on or off the ball.

The offense collapsed whenever Steph went to the bench and Dray is a big reason why.


How many rings do you have to win not being able to shoot before we stop acting like it’s wrecking the team?

You can only hurt a team so much while it keeps winning rings while playing you gigantic minutes. He’s obviously a net positive or at least something that doesn’t do catastrophic damage.

[tontoz]

How many rings do you have to win not being able to shoot before we stop acting like it’s wrecking the team?

You can only hurt a team so much while it keeps winning rings while playing you gigantic minutes. He’s obviously a net positive or at least something that doesn’t do catastrophic damage.


He is a big positive on defense but he absolutely horrible on offense. Putting the ball in the basket is a pretty fundamental part of basketball.

How many times do we criticize guys who are great offensively but are just average/below average defenders? Happens all the time. So why should Dray be exempt from crticism for his offense? His offense isn't just below average, it is epically bad and fair game for criticism.

[NBAGOAT]

I think he’s worth it but he gets paid quite a bit and is usually 2nd in minutes played on the team. You want some competence on offense. No he doesn’t need to be 16 dray either

[AlternativeAcc.]

I think he’s worth it but he gets paid quite a bit and is usually 2nd in minutes played on the team. You want some competence on offense. No he doesn’t need to be 16 dray either

They have plenty of guys competent on offense.

The problem is they have glaring black holes on defense like curry so without a guy like Dray they'd be much worse off.

[warriorfan]

Rodman and Wallace didn't handle the ball and they played in an era when spacing wasn't as much of an issue.

Aren't you the guy who is always going on and on about the differences in eras?

He’s hating right now. :lol

[Kblaze8855]

He is a big positive on defense but he absolutely horrible on offense. Putting the ball in the basket is a pretty fundamental part of basketball.

How many times do we criticize guys who are great offensively but are just average/below average defenders? Happens all the time. So why should Dray be exempt from crticism for his offense? His offense isn't just below average, it is epically bad and fair game for criticism.

You can criticize anybody for anything. More than half the Hall of Fame either didn’t play defense or were lackluster on offense. The ones who are good on both ends are somewhat rare. Usually a great player is great on one end and more often than we’d like is a liability to some extent on the other. Nothing wrong with saying so but we can only make it out to be so big a deal while the guy wins sacks full of rings. People act like he’s actually keeping them from something. The only time they got eliminated healthy in the playoffs is when he turned to Dirk for a game to no avail.

I just wonder how long it’s gonna be a story that a guy who doesn’t shoot much and isn’t there to score isn’t scoring.

A guy who takes 6 -7 shots a game makes 2 he’s the worst but makes 3 and he’s fine. At that volume it’s really barely worth talking about for a defensive player of his caliber.

[Kblaze8855]

He’s hating right now. :lol



You’ve been here 10 years. Do you remember the last time I complained about a players shooting percentage? I don’t care what volume shooters shoot big picture wise. Why would I…a person on the “So what?” side of 800 Iverson, Kobe, Kidd and so on shooting percentage arguments care what a guy who takes 8 shots a game shoots when he’s not there for it?

I often ignore shooting numbers of guys who’s job it is to shoot…but this seems out of my character?

[warriorfan]

You’ve been here 10 years. Do you remember the last time I complained about a players shooting percentage? I don’t care what volume shooters shoot big picture wise. Why would I…a person on the “So what?” side of 800 Iverson, Kobe, Kidd and so on shooting percentage arguments care what a guy who takes 8 shots a game shoots when he’s not there for it?

I often ignore shooting numbers of guys who’s job it is to shoot…but this seems out of my character?

You don’t see anything wrong with a modern nba player making 14 field goals in 217 minutes of play after purposely not being guarded…at all, for the majority of the time.


It’s just interesting, that’s all.

[Kblaze8855]

You don’t see anything wrong with a modern nba player making 14 field goals in 217 minutes of play after purposely not being guarded…at all, for the majority of the time.


It’s just interesting, that’s all.

If he’s not on the floor to do it and he is doing what he’s there to do…..and the team wins…why would I?

Why would I concern myself with the statistical specifics of a victory? Do they get an extra ring if he makes 2 more threes?

Have they ever lost because he wasn’t scoring?

Id show more concern if there were some negative result.

[3ba11]

Dynasty systems have a great brand of ball can win with "filler" players that don't have to score

Draymond would be an unknown player on a lesser team - see recent seasons without Klay where Dray was literally NOTHING - a 6/7/5 player on a losing team - a bum.. a garbage can

He's a low-producing bum that only gets recognition in a winning system

[tpols]

You don’t see anything wrong with a modern nba player making 14 field goals in 217 minutes of play after purposely not being guarded…at all, for the majority of the time.


It’s just interesting, that’s all.

I dont think he realizes that just because the dubs won, doesnt mean dray wasn't a liability that was made up for by other guys.

Like... If you switch Horford and Dray, the dubs would have swept the Cs in blowouts because of how badly Horford outshot and outplayed him. Defense isn't an argument because Al plays great defense too. And this is old Horford. Its sad.

[tontoz]

You can criticize anybody for anything. More than half the Hall of Fame either didn’t play defense or were lackluster on offense. The ones who are good on both ends are somewhat rare. Usually a great player is great on one end and more often than we’d like is a liability to some extent on the other. Nothing wrong with saying so but we can only make it out to be so big a deal while the guy wins sacks full of rings. People act like he’s actually keeping them from something. The only time they got eliminated healthy in the playoffs is when he turned to Dirk for a game to no avail.

I just wonder how long it’s gonna be a story that a guy who doesn’t shoot much and isn’t there to score isn’t scoring.

A guy who takes 6 -7 shots a game makes 2 he’s the worst but makes 3 and he’s fine. At that volume it’s really barely worth talking about for a defensive player of his caliber.



His career average in the playoffs is 12 ppg. He wasn't good but he was closer to average in their previous playoff runs. This year he was awful.

He was so bad on offense in the finals that his own mother called him out. He sucked.

[Kblaze8855]

. I dont think he realizes that just because the dubs won, doesnt mean dray wasn't a liability that was made up for by other guys.


So Dray is one of about a dozen guys who contribute in different ways towards the ultimate goal and his shortcomings are covered by teammates who’s shortcomings he helps cover for? Meaning…it’s a team.


Ok.

Anything else?

[warriorfan]

:roll:

[Kblaze8855]

His career average in the playoffs is 12 ppg. He wasn't good but he was closer to average in their previous playoff runs. This year he was awful.

He was so bad on offense in the finals that his own mother called him out. He sucked.


I care precisely as much how much Draymond scores as I care about Rodman doing 3ppg in a finals win. I’ll worry about people scoring if it’s their job to score. And even then you know well I don’t care much what they shoot. Really. After years if you arguing with me about shooting numbers of guys who shoot 20+ times a game are you shocked I don’t care what a guy taking 7 shots shoots while he’s playing great defense and assisting on a bunch of threes on the way to his 4th ring?

Has anything you learned about me these 15 or so years suggested to you…I’d give a single **** what a guy who isn’t there to shoot…shoots?

[tpols]

So Dray is one of about a dozen guys who contribute in different ways towards the ultimate goal and his shortcomings are covered by teammates who’s shortcomings he helps cover for? Meaning…it’s a team.


Ok.

Anything else?

There are plenty of guys who make way less than dray, that can play great defense and be at least a high school level shooter against a defense that's sagging 20 feet off them.

Old Horford is the best example. He torched Dray. The warriors would be way better with (even old) Horford than current dray.

[Kblaze8855]

So they would do what in this fantasy? Win the title? Really reeeeeeally win it?

[tontoz]

I care precisely as much how much Draymond scores as I care about Rodman doing 3ppg in a finals win. I’ll worry about people scoring if it’s their job to score. And even then you know well I don’t care much what they shoot. Really. After years if you arguing with me about shooting numbers of guys who shoot 20+ times a game are you shocked I don’t care what a guy taking 7 shots shoots while he’s playing great defense and assisting on a bunch of threes on the way to his 4th ring?

Has anything you learned about me these 15 or so years suggested to you…I’d give a single **** what a guy who isn’t there to shoot…shoots?



What you seem to be missing is that Dray hasn't been the player you seem to be claiming him to be. For his career he scored almost twice as many ppg in the playoffs as Rodman.

When a guy who has averaged 12 ppg in the playoffs for his career suddenly averages 6 ppg with terrible shooting in the Finals that is a problem whether you acknowlege it or not.

Dray averaged 15 ppg during their first title run. Rodman isn't a valid comparison. Rodman never scored much for the Bulls and wasn't handling the ball on the perimeter. It is a nonsensical comparison.

[warriorfan]

I care precisely as much how much Draymond scores as I care about Rodman doing 3ppg in a finals win. I’ll worry about people scoring if it’s their job to score. And even then you know well I don’t care much what they shoot. Really. After years if you arguing with me about shooting numbers of guys who shoot 20+ times a game are you shocked I don’t care what a guy taking 7 shots shoots while he’s playing great defense and assisting on a bunch of threes on the way to his 4th ring?

Has anything you learned about me these 15 or so years suggested to you…I’d give a single **** what a guy who isn’t there to shoot…shoots?

Draymond’s own mother was more honest with his performance than this. :lol

[tpols]

So they would do what in this fantasy? Win the title? Really reeeeeeally win it?

Yes they would really reaaally win it. It would have been a shorter much easier series instead of being very tight.

[FilmyCogTurner]

I really don't care about a non-offensive players numbers either but you have to admit his presence on the court affects both sides of the floor in big ways. It's more about being a threat and pulling your defender out of the paint so your main offensive weapons can operate.

[hold this L]

Dray would have likely been a supersub role player ala GPII if he was drafted in any of the other 29 teams. Generally his deficiencies are covered enough so it doesn't matter when you have the right personel, but I don't think that was the case this PS. He had the worst series of his career (Memphis), and then followed that up for the second worst series of his career vs Boston. Was fouled out in 3/6 games in the finals, had more fouls than field goals made, and in the first 3 game the team was better defensively with off the floor than on. His own mom bitched him out online and Kerr benched him. I usually am cool with Dray talking shit but he looks like a f*cking clown this summer talking smack the way he played. If Boston win that series, he or Klay was 100% getting shipped off the team. Like tontoz says, Dray in 15 and 16 was AMAZING. Go watch those series. His Boston game 6 game is what you could expect from Dray in 3-6 game/series every post season. Even though he couldn't score as well, he was super active. If 15, 16 Dray played in this PS, Warriors probably lose 2 games the entire PS run. That's how mediocre to outright bad he was in a lot of games. I think the fact that he has such an absurd amount of fouls despite the team never needing 7 games for any series shows that he's relying on fouling players more now that his athleticism is trending downwards.

I think the goal for next season should be to lower Klay's and Dray's minutes, especially Klay who should be averaging 30MPG. Doubt Kerr does that because he loves people that have proved it to him (and who can blame him), and not sure their egos can take it. But it would allow their bodies to be more active in the time they're on the court and allow some youngsters to get more NBA ready. Warriors need to look at giving Kuminga the Dray role when he's on the bench. He needs to significantly improve his defensive awareness and not be a black offensively that isolates his entire team, but it's up to him if he wants to force the minutes.

[warriorfan]

Dray would have likely been a supersub role player ala GPII if he was drafted in any of the other 29 teams. Generally his deficiencies are covered enough so it doesn't matter when you have the right personel, but I don't think that was the case this PS. He had the worst series of his career (Memphis), and then followed that up for the second worst series of his career vs Boston. Was fouled out in 3/6 games in the finals, had more fouls than field goals made, and in the first 3 game the team was better defensively with off the floor than on. His own mom bitched him out online and Kerr benched him. I usually am cool with Dray talking shit but he looks like a f*cking clown this summer talking smack the way he played. If Boston win that series, he or Klay was 100% getting shipped off the team. Like tontoz says, Dray in 15 and 16 was AMAZING. Go watch those series. His Boston game 6 game is what you could expect from Dray in 3-6 game/series every post season. Even though he couldn't score as well, he was super active. I think the fact that he has such an absurd amount of fouls despite the team never needing 7 games for any series shows that he's relying on fouling players more now that his athleticism is trending downwards.

I think the goal for next season should be to lower Klay's and Dray's minutes, especially Klay who should be averaging 30MPG. Doubt Kerr does that because he loves people that have proved it to him (and who can blame him), and not sure their egos can take it. But it would allow their bodies to be more active in the time they're on the court and allow some youngsters to get more NBA ready. Warriors need to look at giving Kuminga the Dray role when he's on the bench. He needs to significantly improve his defensive awareness and not be a black offensively that isolates his entire team, but it's up to him if he wants to force the minutes.

B-b-but Dey won. There many players bad in nba history like Dray.

-kblaze

[Kblaze8855]

What you seem to be missing is that Dray hasn't been the player you seem to be claiming him to be. For his career he scored almost twice as many ppg in the playoffs as Rodman.

When a guy who has averaged 12 ppg in the playoffs for his career suddenly averages 6 ppg with terrible shooting in the Finals that is a problem whether you acknowlege it or not.

Dray averaged 15 ppg during their first title run. Rodman isn't a valid comparison. Rodman never scored much for the Bulls and wasn't handling the ball on the perimeter. It is a nonsensical comparison.


Of what relevance is handling the ball when the game plan is not for you to shoot it but to create as a point forward for a team of shooters? Like I said he’s won multiple rings shooting 26 percent or less from 3. Please tell me why I need to care what he shoots when the team is built to perform without it and does so to the tune of a dynasty?

What do you give it a pass if he scores 11 and misses 75% of his threes? You shit on people for doing 30 a game on 40%. But you act like him scoring 6 more on the same shit shooting is…what?

I did not care when he shot 26% and won the other times. Why would I now be making it a big deal? You know me. We have these discussions.

If I don’t care what AI shoots on 28 shots why the **** would I care what a defensive player of the year who takes 7-8 shots shoots? I’m not that guy.

We have lots of those guys who don’t really care about anything but shooting numbers. I have never been and will never be one of them.

[NBAGOAT]

They have plenty of guys competent on offense.

The problem is they have glaring black holes on defense like curry so without a guy like Dray they'd be much worse off.

you're right about their defense but curry's not a blackhole on defense that bias coming through again. jordan poole is their weak link and klay's not that good now either. also most playoff teams do not have someone as bad as dray on offense who plays that many minutes. Even someone like say pj tucker or jae crowder or wesley matthews can space the floor. yea they be worse but a few guys could replace him.

[tontoz]

Of what relevance is handling the ball when the game plan is not for you to shoot it but to create as a point forward for a team of shooters? Like I said he’s won multiple rings shooting 26 percent or less from 3. Please tell me why I need to care what he shoots when the team is built to perform without it and does so to the tune of a dynasty?

What do you give it a pass if he scores 11 and misses 75% of his threes? You shit on people for doing 30 a game on 40%. But you act like him scoring 6 more on the same shit shooting is…what?

I did not care when he shot 26% and won the other times. Why would I now be making it a big deal? You know me. We have these discussions.

If I don’t care what AI shoots on 28 shots why the **** would I care what a defensive player of the year who takes 7-8 shots shoots? I’m not that guy.

We have lots of those guys who don’t really care about anything but shooting numbers. I have never been and will never be one of them.

I know you love guys that miss a lot of shots. This is a completely different scenario.

If a guy who has averaged 20 in the playoffs for his career then averages 10 in the finals on dismal shooting he deserves criticism whether his team wins or not.

It is a lot harder to create for others when you aren't a threat to score yourself. Rodman was never asked to do anything on offense other than get rebounds.

Dray routinely handles the ball on the perimeter with no defender near him. They get away with it because of who he plays with. They won in spite him him being a disaster on offense, although he did have a good game 6.

[Shooter]

So Dray is one of about a dozen guys who contribute in different ways towards the ultimate goal and his shortcomings are covered by teammates who’s shortcomings he helps cover for? Meaning…it’s a team.


Ok.

Anything else?

Kblaze just blazed that ass :lol They got nothing now.

[tontoz]

This from Dray's mom:


Please ppl stop asking me what’s wrong with Dray… I DONT KNOW! Maybe this is a CLONE! Lmbo WHERE IS THE Draymond that helped get us here!! Hmmmm I have never seen this either!

— Mary B (@BabersGreen) June 11, 2022





:roll:

https://fansided.com/2022/06/10/draymond-green-mom-hilarious-tweet-reaction-game-4/

[Kblaze8855]

I know you love guys that miss a lot of shots. This is a completely different scenario.

If a guy who has averaged 20 in the playoffs for his career then averages 10 in the finals on dismal shooting he deserves criticism whether his team wins or not.

It is a lot harder to create for others when you aren't a threat to score yourself. Rodman was never asked to do anything on offense other than get rebounds.

Dray routinely handles the ball on the perimeter with no defender near him. They get away with it because of who he plays with. They won in spite him him being a disaster on offense, although he did have a good game 6.



I don’t love guys who miss shots I hate the casual fan evaluation of players that begins and ends with it regardless of the players role, overall impact on the team, and the game plan in place. I’ve watched you turn basketball into division for over 15 years of the same “The scoreboard only counts shots that go in” argument almost exclusively while I am left to defend the value of players going to or already in hall of fame precisely because their contribution cannot be measured by division.

The only exception I can think of in the long boring(no doubt you agree it’s getting old) history of us having this conversation is Abdul-Rauf. Literally every single other guy we have this discussion about either is or will be in the hall of fame while my entire argument has been “Obviously it can’t mean that much when they’re still great effective players teams keep relying on”.

Every time you get going about some guys shooting numbers im on the other side pointing out they are still obviously effective and then they go down as all time greats. Unless of course it’s an existing all time great you are generally arguing is…I don’t know…less…all time great?

This shit is exclusively you talking to me about some legend who could have shot better usually to no real difference. And now we have to talk about what a guy shot while not there to shoot while winning his 4th ring the majority of which have been won with him shooting like shit.

Are we to be locked in this argument forever?

Talking now about a 8 shot a game defensive playmakers shooting numbers?

[tontoz]

I don’t love guys who miss shots I hate the casual fan evaluation of players that begins and ends with it regardless of the players role, overall impact on the team, and the game plan in place. I’ve watched you turn basketball into division for over 15 years of the same “The scoreboard only counts shots that go in” argument almost exclusively while I am left to defend the value of players going to or already in hall of fame precisely because their contribution cannot be measured by division.

The only exception I can think of in the long boring(no doubt you agree it’s getting old) history of us having this conversation is Abdul-Rauf. Literally every single other guy we have this discussion about either is or will be in the hall of fame while my entire argument has been “Obviously it can’t mean that much when they’re still great effective players teams keep relying on”.

Every time you get going about some guys shooting numbers im on the other side pointing out they are still obviously effective and then they go down as all time greats. Unless of course it’s an existing all time great you are generally arguing is…I don’t know…less…all time great?

This shit is exclusively you talking to me about some legend who could have shot better usually to no real difference. And now we have to talk about what a guy shot while not there to shoot while winning his 4th ring the majority of which have been won with him shooting like shit.

Are we to be locked in this argument forever?

Talking now about a 8 shot a game defensive playmakers shooting numbers?


The problem with your argument is that it completely ignores Dray's history. He has been asked to score and has averaged 12 ppg for the playoffs in his career.

This year has not been the norm for him. This year has been his worst in terms of playoff scoring, by far, since his rookie year. He was a disaster with ball in the finals. You just refuse to acknowlege this because it doesn't fit your BS narrative.

[Kblaze8855]

The problem with your argument is that it completely ignores Dray's history. He has been asked to score and has averaged 12 ppg for the playoffs in his career.

This year has not been the norm for him. This year has been his worst in terms of playoff scoring, by far, since his rookie year. He was a disaster with ball in the finals. You just refuse to acknowlege this because it doesn't fit your BS narrative.


He averaged 10.8 on worse shooting overall and 26% from three in the playoffs their last ring. And played 39 minutes a game to get it opposed to 32 to get 8ppg this time. I’ve not been giving a shit about this for decades.

I do not care at ALL what his shooting numbers are. I didn’t. I do not. I will not in the future.

What exactly are you trying to get across? That his numbers which I didn’t care about to begin with are down? Why do you think I’d have a problem acknowledging smaller numbers? They are right there. Not up for debate.

Here I am not giving two shits about them as is my nature.

What do you think I’m not acknowledging?

There is a difference between acknowledgment and caring. I acknowledge a great many things happen I don’t care about. His scoring is 8 and last time they won it was 10.8. Is there something more you want while I continue my multi decade run of not giving a single beer battered **** about it?

[tontoz]

He averaged 10.8 on worse shooting overall and 26% from three in the playoffs their last ring. And played 39 minutes a game to get it opposed to 32 to get 8ppg this time. I’ve not been giving a shit about this for decades.

I do not care at ALL what his shooting numbers are. I didn’t. I do not. I will not in the future.

What exactly are you trying to get across? That his numbers which I didn’t care about to begin with are down? Why do you think I’d have a problem acknowledging smaller numbers? They are right there. Not up for debate.

Here I am not giving two shits about them as is my nature.

What do you think I’m not acknowledging?

There is a difference between acknowledgment and caring. I acknowledge a great many things happen I don’t care about. His scoring is 8 and last time they won it was 10.8. Is there something more you want while I continue my multi decade run of not giving a single beer battered **** about it?

Is this a joke? You do realize that they had KD on the team the last time they won a ring, right?

With prime Steph/Klay/KD on the team obviously points aren't that important from Dray. With KD gone and Klay struggling obviously points are more important from Dray. This isn't hard to understand. You keep pretending that he is not being asked to score so it doesn't matter. That is nonsense.

It doesn't matter whether Dray's points are important to you. They are important to GS which is why Kerr benched him in the 4th quarter of game 4 because he was such a disaster on offense. Why did Kerr bench him if his scoring wasn't important? Maybe you should explain to Kerr that Dray isn't in there to score.

[iamgine]

Curry
Wiggins
Poole
Klay
GP2/Looney
Draymond

He was the team's 6th option and a defensive specialist. Did we focus on Dennis Rodman or Ben Wallace's scoring?

Didn't think so.

Is this just how stacked the Warriors are that we expect their 6th option defensive anchor to be a scoring machine as well?

Not the scoring but I expected him to be able to hit wide open shots at reasonable rate. Like Bruce Bowen.

People definitely used to give Ben Wallace grief on his offensive ineptness, especially his FT.

[Kblaze8855]

With prime Steph/Klay/KD on the team obviously points aren't that important from Dray. With KD gone and Klay struggling obviously points are more important from Dray.


Apparently they aren’t. Here we are. Him scoring 2 less points in 7 less minutes with the exact same outcome. Forgive me for not thinking those 2 points were key.


Much much much better players than Draymond Green have been on the bench for three minutes. And like him most weren’t on it for most of the minutes that mattered. Dray wouldn’t even crack the top 10 guys who were benched for offensive or defensive reasons late in a game.

The immense fascination with a guy who you expect to score like 10-11 only scoring 8 While fulfilling his normal elite defensive role while winning is pretty wild to me.

Like if Bruce Bowen or Michael Cooper scores 6 instead of 9 and we have 13 topics about it while they play their normal role otherwise and the team functions exactly as normal and wins it all.

Just kinda weird to make out to be a big deal.

[tontoz]

Apparently they aren’t. Here we are. Him scoring 2 less points in 7 less minutes with the exact same outcome. Forgive me for not thinking those 2 points were key.


Much much much better players than Draymond Green have been on the bench for three minutes. And like him most weren’t on it for most of the minutes that mattered. Dray wouldn’t even crack the top 10 guys who were benched for offensive or defensive reasons late in a game.

The immense fascination with a guy who you expect to score like 10-11 only scoring 8 While fulfilling his normal elite defensive role while winning is pretty wild to me.

Like if Bruce Bowen or Michael Cooper scores 6 instead of 9 and we have 13 topics about it while they play their normal role otherwise and the team functions exactly as normal and wins it all.

Just kinda weird to make out to be a big deal.


When were Rodman/Wallace/Bowen asked to "conduct the offense"? How many times did they have more turnovers than field goals? How many guys were called out by their own mother in the middle of a Finals series?



Specifically, Kerr explained that the Celtics are playing in a way that makes it tough on Green to execute offensively.


“This is a series where [Green] can’t conduct the offense from the top of the key,” Kerr said. “Boston just switches everything, blows a lot of stuff up. So we’re running predominantly pick-and-roll all night because that’s our best way of attacking them. They know it and we know it.”


https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/11/steve-kerr-explains-benching-draymond-green-game-four

[tpols]

The main thing about Wallace and Rodman is they stayed out of the way on offense. Aside from crashing the offensive glass, setting screens and making hustle plays. They didn't negatively impact the offense.

While Dray will make retarded hero passes that result in huge momentum shifts, brick shots Ben and Dennis would never take, and generally just clog shit up with terrible spacing.

Dray is like if you asked Rodman to handle the ball and dish assists. You'd have a situation where he'd go from neutral on offense to negative. That is what dray is doing to the dubs.

[warriorfan]

Apparently they aren’t. Here we are. Him scoring 2 less points in 7 less minutes with the exact same outcome. Forgive me for not thinking those 2 points were key.


Much much much better players than Draymond Green have been on the bench for three minutes. And like him most weren’t on it for most of the minutes that mattered. Dray wouldn’t even crack the top 10 guys who were benched for offensive or defensive reasons late in a game.

The immense fascination with a guy who you expect to score like 10-11 only scoring 8 While fulfilling his normal elite defensive role while winning is pretty wild to me.

Like if Bruce Bowen or Michael Cooper scores 6 instead of 9 and we have 13 topics about it while they play their normal role otherwise and the team functions exactly as normal and wins it all.

Just kinda weird to make out to be a big deal.

Dray was so bad it allowed Steph to get doubled and everyone else get played straight up while no one was within 10 to 20+ feet of Draymond

They were literally unable to run their normal offense because of how poorly he was playing/choking

[Kblaze8855]

I would Rather have Dennis Rodman than Draymond Green but a swap presents some issues. Steph is probably the most devastating off the ball player in basketball history. Swapping Dray for Rodman and making him a more traditional playmaker might be a net loss. He can obviously handle the ball and pass. He proved it long ago. But he has found a better way to attack. I don’t know that swapping Dray for one of the other defensive bigs we talk about would be for the best. He doesn’t have to score to help them play their style. Anything making Steph dribble more is potentially a problem when their whole style is predicated so much on what they do off the ball.

Hed still get his obviously but that team benefits heavily having a big ball handler.

I guess you bench Looney and play Rodman at the 5 and….give Iggy more time? Play Poole more?

Or do you want Steph holding the ball more?

[tontoz]

The main thing about Wallace and Rodman is they stayed out of the way on offense. Aside from crashing the offensive glass, setting screens and making hustle plays. They didn't negatively impact the offense.

While Dray will make retarded hero passes that result in huge momentum shifts, brick shots Ben and Dennis would never take, and generally just clog shit up with terrible spacing.

Dray is like if you asked Rodman to handle the ball and dish assists. You'd have a situation where he'd go from neutral on offense to negative. That is what dray is doing to the dubs.


I think Dray's inability to shoot makes him try to hard to be a playmaker and force high risk passes. Those passes look great when they work but they ended up turnovers a lot of the time.

I lol'd when one of the announcers said Dray was "feeling it" after making his first 3 of the series. :lol

[hold this L]

I would Rather have Dennis Rodman than Draymond Green but a swap presents some issues. Steph is probably the most devastating off the ball player in basketball history. Swapping Dray for Rodman and making him a more traditional playmaker might be a net loss. He can obviously handle the ball and pass. He proved it long ago. But he has found a better way to attack. I don’t know that swapping Dray for one of the other defensive bigs we talk about would be for the best. He doesn’t have to score to help them play their style. Anything making Steph dribble more is potentially a problem when their whole style is predicated so much on what they do off the ball.

Hed still get his obviously but that team benefits heavily having a big ball handler.

I guess you bench Looney and play Rodman at the 5 and….give Iggy more time? Play Poole more?

Or do you want Steph holding the ball more?
Depends which Dray we're talking about. Dray this postseason was bad, Dray from a few years ago before KD, Steph and Klay got injured is a different player.

[ShawkFactory]

Dray was so bad it allowed Steph to get doubled and everyone else get played straight up while no one was within 10 to 20+ feet of Draymond

They were literally unable to run their normal offense because of how poorly he was playing/choking

You say this as if it was the only thing to do. Doubling Steph was the Celtics' fatal mistake.

[hold this L]

You say this as if it was the only thing to do. Doubling Steph was the Celtics' fatal mistake.
Every coach ends up doubling him. He tried to be ahead of the curve but after game 4, be bent the knee due to the pressure. Just like everyone else. :bowdown:

[ShawkFactory]

Every coach ends up doubling him. He tried to be ahead of the curve but after game 4, be bent the knee due to the pressure. Just like everyone else. :bowdown:

It's so bizarre. There's evidence that playing him straight up is the best way to defend them.

[red1]

dray is the man.



I always root against him but I still respect the guy. :applause:

[red1]

warriors would be ringless without this kid. he's the main source of heart and confidence on their team.



he's literally their leader.

[Hey Yo]

You don’t see anything wrong with a modern nba player making 14 field goals in 217 minutes of play after purposely not being guarded…at all, for the majority of the time.


It’s just interesting, that’s all.

Rodman had 17fgm in 225mp avg 7.5ppg in the 96 Finals, yet still received multiple FMVP votes. Why didn't voters see how big of a liability he was on offense?

[tontoz]

Rodman had 17fgm in 225mp avg 7.5ppg in the 96 Finals, yet still received multiple FMVP votes. Why didn't voters see how big of a liability he was on offense?


Because Rodman wasn't handling the ball at the top of the key or on the break. He didnt have more turnovers than field goals.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/IMG_20220602_223539.jpg

[hold this L]

Because Rodman wasn't handling the ball at the top of the key or on the break. He didnt have more turnovers than field goals.

Dray had more fouls than FGM this finals. He was fantastic in game 6 but was on course to have one of the worst finals in NBA history if he didn't turn it around at the end. Thankfully he did. His D was good throughout the series outside of game 1 though. :applause:

[Hey Yo]

Because Rodman wasn't handling the ball at the top of the key or on the break. He didnt have more turnovers than field goals.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/IMG_20220602_223539.jpg

The topic is about scoring. I quoted warriorfag who brought up FGM and MP. Boston had the best defense and DPOY last season so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that a defensive first player plays below avg. offensively.

[tontoz]

The topic is about scoring. I quoted warriorfag who brought up FGM and MP. Boston had the best defense and DPOY last season so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that a defensive first player plays below avg. offensively.

He wasn't just below average. :oldlol:

6 ppg with a 39% TS is epically bad. I dont think i have ever seen a guy have more turnovers than field goals for a series, not to mention fouling out 3 times.

[Axe]

Lol donkey still being scapegoated despite the warriors having won the chip already a week ago. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

Lol donkey still being scapegoated despite the warriors having won the chip already a week ago. :oldlol:


Since when is stating facts scapegoating?

[Cleverness]

Since when is stating facts is scapegoating?

ikr. Shooter made the thread in the first place lol

Dray can't be out there if he's playing subpar defense AND a huge liability on offense incapable of making wide open shots. he made them in game 6 tho

[Tez62]

Draymond one of the highest impact players on the floor in all of the wins. Ranked: Game 6 >> Game 2 > Game 5 > Game 4

[Shooter]

ikr. Shooter made the thread in the first place lol

Dray can't be out there if he's playing subpar defense AND a huge liability on offense incapable of making wide open shots. he made them in game 6 tho

I made the thread because I wasn't scapegoating him...No Curry fan would have. Keep up Cleverness...

[Carbine]

Feel free to post a starter in NBA history who scored at a comparable level to Dray's 6 ppg with a 39% TS. For the series he actually had more turnovers than field goals. :oldlol:







https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/IMG_20220602_223539.jpg

Low IQ posters won't see why this particular photo isn't a problem at all. It looks bad but it's really not.

This dribble hand off action is putting Klay Thompson's defender in a lose lose situation. With Draymond Greens defender in the paint like that, there is no way he can recover in time to help on the screen.

This is going to result in an open shot a vast percent of the time. It's just too much air space to recover from if you're Draymonds defender.

[warriorfan]

Low IQ posters won't see why this particular photo isn't a problem at all. It looks bad but it's really not.

This dribble hand off action is putting Klay Thompson's defender in a lose lose situation. With Draymond Greens defender in the paint like that, there is no way he can recover in time to help on the screen.

This is going to result in an open shot a vast percent of the time. It's just too much air space to recover from if you're Draymonds defender.

Low iq never played ball

[KNOW1EDGE]

If Draymond is 6th option behind GP2 and Looney that’s not really something to brag about or use as proof that he’s good.

Drays inability to shoot/score hurts his team but he does everything else really well so he’s an asset on the court for GSW. He’s a good player

[Shooter]

If Draymond is 6th option behind GP2 and Looney that’s not really something to brag about or use as proof that he’s good.

Drays inability to shoot/score hurts his team but he does everything else really well so he’s an asset on the court for GSW. He’s a good player

How do you feel about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Dikembe Mutombo?

[97 bulls]

How do you feel about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Dikembe Mutombo?

They can still be effective on offense if they can get offensive rebounds. Offensive rebounds give the offense more scoring opportunities.

[KNOW1EDGE]

How do you feel about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Dikembe Mutombo?

What about them? They too were poor offensive players who more than made up for it on the defensive side. I said Draymond was a good player I’m not trying to throw shade on his game, but he clearly has a weakness that hurts his team at times.

[hold this L]

How do you feel about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Dikembe Mutombo?
And did teams field 5 shooters on the court at all times during their eras as they do now?

[Shooter]

And did teams field 5 shooters on the court at all times during their eras as they do now?

How do you feel about Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and Dikembe Mutombo?

[Shooter]

What about them? They too were poor offensive players who more than made up for it on the defensive side. I said Draymond was a good player I’m not trying to throw shade on his game, but he clearly has a weakness that hurts his team at times.

Sure. And what about Rodman, Wallace, Mutombo. Did they also hurt their team on offense?

[tontoz]

Sure. And what about Rodman, Wallace, Mutombo. Did they also hurt their team on offense?

Those guys weren't asked to be playmakers. They weren't handling the ball at the top of the key and leading the break. They weren't taking perimeter shots.


Feel free to post any series when those guys had more turnovers than field goals.

:roll:

Or post any series when they missed 14 3s.

[8Ball]

warriors would be ringless without this kid. he's the main source of heart and confidence on their team.



he's literally their leader.

Correct.

Without Draymond, Steph has 0 rings.

[Shooter]

Correct.

Without Draymond, Steph has 0 rings.


warriors would be ringless without this kid. he's the main source of heart and confidence on their team.



he's literally their leader.

BINGO

Historical record shows that score first players with low defensive skills need an anchor to win games

•1-9 Jordan needed Pippen anchor
•Curry needed Draymond anchor
•Kobe needed Shaq/Artest anchor

Elite 2-way players dont need anchors to win THEY ARE the anchors. They just need the ball:

•Hakeem, LeBron, Wilt, Russell

[tontoz]

GS would have won easily with Horford in place to Green. Swap those two and it might be a sweep.

GS wouldn't rank first in defensive efficiency if Curry was a bad defender. People who think Curry is a weak defender either don't watch the games or are trolls.

[Axe]

Correct.

Without Draymond, Steph has 0 rings.
End scene

[KNOW1EDGE]

Sure. And what about Rodman, Wallace, Mutombo. Did they also hurt their team on offense?

Yes. What do they have to do with Draymond?

[Shooter]

Yes. What do they have to do with Draymond?

T h i n k