What if Joker teamed up with Booker & Ja and went 1/3.. Is that goat-level?

[3ba11]

And then what if he formed another super-team and went 2/4 including a goat choke and a record loss

And then what if he capped his career off by teaming up with Embiid and going 1/4

So his career consists of forming super-teams and then mostly losing..

Would that be goat? Would that be ANYWHERE NEAR goat? Wouldn't we look at his career like kind of a joke? Like a charade?

And yet Lebron is viewed as a goat candidate - it's fraud and you guys fell for it..

[tpols]

A better analogy would be if he teamed up with Curry and maybe KAT or something @ 3rd option.

But Jokic and curry would be an amazing fit... and totally unstoppable.

[Johnny32]

is ja crippled like wade? does jokic lead his team in pts, rbds, asts and blks in their championship runs?

[AlternativeAcc.]

If Booker is perpetually injured and Ja is a guy who score 0 points in game 7s then yes

[AlternativeAcc.]

A better analogy would be if he teamed up with Curry and maybe KAT or something @ 3rd option.

But Jokic and curry would be an amazing fit... and totally unstoppable.

Or Embiid who becomes a shell of himself due to injuries (similar position) and some bum like McCollum or some shit

[Hey Yo]

Wade's 7.9 game score in the Finals is the worst for any "superstar" sidekick.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Wade's 7.9 game score in the Finals is the worst for any "superstar" sidekick.

It's over let's go home

[3ba11]

Is ja crippled like wade?






2011 Playoffs PPG

Wade....... 24.5
Lebron..... 23.7


Was lebron crippled?

In the 13' Finals, Wade averaged 20 and Lebron 25.

In the 14' ECF, Wade averaged 20 and Lebron 23

Wade was clearly an equal scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)..






does jokic lead his team in pts, rbds, asts and blks in their championship runs?





Ja destroys the league MVP in the Finals, so that's the easiest ring ever.. And he's equal-scoring partner to Jokic, so Jokic doesn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention

Ultimately, Lebron always needed all-time scorers at sidekick to attract defensive attention away from him - he couldn't win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Klay, Pippen or Wiggins.. These secondary scorers require the 1st option to carry the scoring load, which Lebron can't do with sufficient brand to defeat Finals teams (too ball-dominant) - so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options like Wade, AD or Kyrie to play sidekick.

[Johnny32]

2011 Playoffs PPG

Wade....... 24.5
Lebron..... 23.7


Was lebron crippled?

In the 13' Finals, Wade averaged 20 and Lebron 25.

In the 14' ECF, Wade averaged 20 and Lebron 23

Wade was clearly an equal scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals)..






Ja destroys the league MVP in the Finals, so that's the easiest ring ever.. And he's equal-scoring partner to Jokic, so Jokic doesn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention

Ultimately, Lebron always needed all-time scorers at sidekick to attract defensive attention away from him - he couldn't win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Klay, Pippen or Wiggins.. These secondary scorers require the 1st option to carry the scoring load, which Lebron can't with sufficient brand to defeat Finals teams (too ball-dominant) - so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options like Wade, AD or Kyrie to play sidekick.

they were still playing 'your turn' basketball in 2011. it became lebron's team the following season when wade laid down and took it like a man.

[tpols]

Or Embiid who becomes a shell of himself due to injuries (similar position) and some bum like McCollum or some shit

Bosh is like a 10x All Star and an All NBA team member. He's way above CJs pay grade.

You'd have to combine two MVPs and one All NBA guy to get a correct analogy.

Jokic/Giannis/Booker
Jokic/Durant/PG13
Jokic/Kawhi/Middleton
Jokic/Curry/KAT

etc.

When healthy they would never lose while the other collusion you cannot say that for because they lost @ their peaks fully healthy ~ 2011.

[3ba11]

Wade's 7.9 game score in the Finals is the worst for any "superstar" sidekick.


Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade:



there's a reason Miami is struggling when their two stars are in together in this particular matchup. The Spurs' defensive strategy throughout the playoffs has been simple: identify the players who aren't good spot-up shooters and help mercilessly off them to cramp the space their opponent's stars can use. San Antonio is essentially ad-libbing a zone defense based upon the perimeter-shooting tendencies of their opposition.

They haven't changed that strategy in the Finals, either. Wade, given his injuries, decline and style of play, has been the player San Antonio identified to be a poor spot-up shooter that can be helped off mercilessly. That has cramped LeBron's space when the two are in together. The inverse is also true: the Spurs are shrinking Wade's space by helping off Lebron

When one of the two is out of the game in favor of additional perimeter shooting, though, there's nobody the Spurs can help off, giving LeBron and Wade more space to be themselves and attack San Antonio's air-tight schemes.

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6


Wade averaged 21/5/5 and 21 PER from 13-16' (Pippen-caliber) with all-star appearances each year and he was a star again in the 16' Playoffs.

[3ba11]

they were still playing 'your turn' basketball in 2011. it became lebron's team the following season when wade laid down and took it like a man.


Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

He needs all-time scorers and 1st options to play sidekick that can match his scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20')

He can't win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen.. These secondary scorers require the 1st option to carry the scoring load, which Lebron can't do with sufficient brand to defeat Finals teams (too ball-dominant) - so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options like Wade, AD or Kyrie to play sidekick.

[r15mohd]

Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade:



there's a reason Miami is struggling when their two stars are in together in this particular matchup. The Spurs' defensive strategy throughout the playoffs has been simple: identify the players who aren't good spot-up shooters and help mercilessly off them to cramp the space their opponent's stars can use. San Antonio is essentially ad-libbing a zone defense based upon the perimeter-shooting tendencies of their opposition.

They haven't changed that strategy in the Finals, either. Wade, given his injuries, decline and style of play, has been the player San Antonio identified to be a poor spot-up shooter that can be helped off mercilessly. That has cramped LeBron's space when the two are in together. The inverse is also true: the Spurs are shrinking Wade's space by helping off Lebron

When one of the two is out of the game in favor of additional perimeter shooting, though, there's nobody the Spurs can help off, giving LeBron and Wade more space to be themselves and attack San Antonio's air-tight schemes.

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6


what was the reason for Wade's collapse in the early rounds when Lebron was over the 10pt threshold to demand maximum defensive attention, as you like to put it as the tell all reasoning? :D

[FilmyCogTurner]

Lebron is a shameless plug - if he had any honor as a man he would have planted his flag with Miami and still be there today.

:pimp:

[Johnny32]

Lebron lacks the elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

He needs all-time scorers and 1st options to play sidekick that can match his scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20')

hurrr, lebron has led his team in scoring in the finals in every championship run.

[Hey Yo]

Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade:



there's a reason Miami is struggling when their two stars are in together in this particular matchup. The Spurs' defensive strategy throughout the playoffs has been simple: identify the players who aren't good spot-up shooters and help mercilessly off them to cramp the space their opponent's stars can use. San Antonio is essentially ad-libbing a zone defense based upon the perimeter-shooting tendencies of their opposition.

They haven't changed that strategy in the Finals, either. Wade, given his injuries, decline and style of play, has been the player San Antonio identified to be a poor spot-up shooter that can be helped off mercilessly. That has cramped LeBron's space when the two are in together. The inverse is also true: the Spurs are shrinking Wade's space by helping off Lebron

When one of the two is out of the game in favor of additional perimeter shooting, though, there's nobody the Spurs can help off, giving LeBron and Wade more space to be themselves and attack San Antonio's air-tight schemes.

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6

89 offensive rating... 120 defensive rating... 7.9 gamescore

Wade, who you call a superstar in 2014, was absolute shit in the 2014 Finals. There's no skirting around it you dumb bozo.

Worst Finals ever for a "superstar" sidekick.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Bosh is like a 10x All Star and an All NBA team member. He's way above CJs pay grade.

You'd have to combine two MVPs and one All NBA guy to get a correct analogy.

Jokic/Giannis/Booker
Jokic/Durant/PG13
Jokic/Kawhi/Middleton
Jokic/Curry/KAT

etc.

When healthy they would never lose while the other collusion you cannot say that for because they lost @ their peaks fully healthy ~ 2011.

Embiid/Jokic and some Bosh equivalent bum isn't a guarentee to win the finals

McCollum and Bosh have the same career average... McCollum gives you much better spacing Bosh gives you better D

it's a wash, they're equivalent as players

[3ba11]

hurrr, lebron has led his team in scoring in the finals in every championship run.


Jordan averaged 10-20 more than his sidekick in all Finals series wins, compared to 2-5 for Lebron

So Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention in the Finals (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Again, he always needed all-time scorers at sidekick that could attract nearly the same defensive attention (score nearly as much) - he can't win with secondary scorers like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen that require you to carry the scoring load in Finals (defeat maximum defensive attention)

We saw what Lebron does against maximum defensive attention in 2007... :oldlol:.. the worst Finals performance ever

[3ba11]

89 offensive rating... 120 defensive rating... 7.9 gamescore

Wade, who you call a superstar in 2014, was absolute shit in the 2014 Finals. There's no skirting around it you dumb bozo.

Worst Finals ever for a "superstar" sidekick.


Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade

It's been documented by SBNationas shown previously

And Wade averaged 21/5/5 with 21 PER from 13-16' with all-star every year - that's peak Pippen numbers - why wasn't that enough for Lebron?

Furthermore, Lebron had a 3rd star in Bosh, but Lebron robbed Bosh of his capacity to step up by making him a spot-up shooter

[Johnny32]

Jordan averaged 10-20 more than his sidekick in all Finals series wins, compared to 2-5 for Lebron

So Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention in the Finals (never carried scoring load in Finals)

Again, he always needed all-time scorers at sidekick that could attract nearly the same defensive attention (score nearly as much) - he can't win with secondary scorers like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen that require you to carry the scoring load in Finals (defeat maximum defensive attention)

We saw what Lebron does against maximum defensive attention in 2007... :oldlol:.. the worst Finals performance ever

lebron doesn't chuck 25 fga per gm like mj. probably because the rules aren't forcing teams to defend him 1v1 in iso situations on the perimeter. he has to pass, and his teammates have to make shots, or he has a wall of defenders in front of him stopping penetration. ofc this is probably all over your autistic lil head.

[r15mohd]

Lebron is a shameless plug - if he had any honor as a man he would have planted his flag with Miami and still be there today.

:pimp:

tax-saving moves were made by the Heat ... in coming to Miami, that should have been known that you dont hold back on the check book if Lebron is suiting up for you.

LAL got more taste of that this past season when Lebron called them out after the LARams parade, where the owner or someone from the Rams wore a 'fck them picks' tee. Win now, at all costs, is his mentality - ticket sales, deep playoff runs and overall spotlight that attracts all businesses to Lebron will line back your pockets

[3ba11]

hurrr, lebron has led his team in scoring in the finals in every championship run.


But his teammates lead in scoring for entire playoff runs (2011, 2020) and Kyrie matched him in 16'.

And when did Lebron carry the scoring load in the Finals (defeat maximum defensive attention)?

We saw what Lebron does in the Finals when he has to carry the scoring load - he was trash in 07' and shot 39% against single coverage in 15'

Lebron needs all-time scorers at sidekick and can't win with secondary scorers like Klay, Wiggins or Pippen

Lebron needs sidekicks that can match his scoring for for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20)

[r15mohd]

Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade

It's been documented by SBNationas shown previously

And Wade averaged 21/5/5 with 21 PER from 13-16' with all-star every year - that's peak Pippen numbers - why wasn't that enough for Lebron?

Furthermore, Lebron had a 3rd star in Bosh, but Lebron robbed Bosh of his capacity to step up by making him a spot-up shooter



post #13 on this thread ... dont continue to post this bs above and overlook the rebuttal


what was the reason for Wade's collapse in the early rounds when Lebron was over the 10pt threshold to demand maximum defensive attention, as you like to put it as the tell all reasoning?

[3ba11]

post #13 on this thread ... dont continue to post this bs above and overlook the rebuttal


The East was won by 1-star teams, so the Heat's super-team was massive overkill - Wade wasn't needed in the East but was always needed against the West.. So he was always a near-equal scoring partner to Lebron in Finals wins.. Lebron only averaged 2-5 more than his sidekick when he won Finals.

[Hey Yo]

Wade was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF against the #1 defense, so his collapse in the Finals was a function of the Spurs figuring out the Heat and exploiting the bad fit between Lebron and Wade

It's been documented by SBNationas shown previously

And Wade averaged 21/5/5 with 21 PER from 13-16' with all-star every year - that's peak Pippen numbers - why wasn't that enough for Lebron?

Furthermore, Lebron had a 3rd star in Bosh, but Lebron robbed Bosh of his capacity to step up by making him a spot-up shooter

Can you give other examples when those Spurs did this to other 2nd option superstars?

Has there ever been 31pt differential in offensive and defensive rating in the Finals with a similar 7.9 gamescore?

[RRR3]

SNIVELBALL :roll:

[r15mohd]

So that means Lebron is a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) and never learned how to win, aka he never learned the teammate fits, chemistry or brand of ball to win organically - other players learned to win and know how to foster great chemistry (Curry) but Lebron didn't and is just a talent-based winner

He's literally a dumb ball-dominator like Luka that needs you to completely stack his team - and then he'll still mostly lose!!!!! He has a lottery record against better brands of ball (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic)


how you wish what you posted were true lol

Miami didnt do much to compensate for Wade's downfall over the years...they allowed it to ride out seeing Lebron was able to pick up the slack in 12 and 13, hoping the same for 14 but bit them in the a$$

MJ didnt build as much as you'd like to claim...when BJ and Horant moved on, did some bench warmers fill in and learn to win alongside the Bulls? Nope, they went and got Harper who was, IMO, better than Armstrong, and Rodman (no attestation needed). Bulls front office surrounded their stars with quality and able players, not stay status quo hoping for MJ or Pippen to pick up the slack

[Johnny32]

how you wish what you posted were true lol

Miami didnt do much to compensate for Wade's downfall over the years...they allowed it to ride out seeing Lebron was able to pick up the slack in 12 and 13, hoping the same for 14 but bit them in the a$$

MJ didnt build as much as you'd like to claim...when BJ and Horant moved on, did some bench warmers fill in and learn to win alongside the Bulls? Nope, they went and got Harper who was, IMO, better than Armstrong, and Rodman (no attestation needed). Bulls front office surrounded their stars with quality and able players, not stay status quo hoping for MJ or Pippen to pick up the slack

good post. lebron's all-around brilliance can also be a curse. why upgrade when lebron can do their jobs too. to be fair to mj...he wasn't nearly as good in every aspect of the gm like lebron is so the bulls really had no choice.

[Shooter]

is ja crippled like wade? does jokic lead his team in pts, rbds, asts and blks in their championship runs?


If Booker is perpetually injured and Ja is a guy who score 0 points in game 7s then yes


Wade's 7.9 game score in the Finals is the worst for any "superstar" sidekick.


what was the reason for Wade's collapse in the early rounds when Lebron was over the 10pt threshold to demand maximum defensive attention, as you like to put it as the tell all reasoning? :D

Nice work *dusts off hands*

I don't need to post a thing aftet all these slays.

[r15mohd]

The East was won by 1-star teams, so the Heat's super-team was massive overkill - Wade wasn't needed in the East but was always needed against the West.. So he was always a near-equal scoring partner to Lebron in Finals wins.. Lebron only averaged 2-5 more than his sidekick when he won Finals.

ohh now we're back to the East vs West excuse...so if that's of relevance, is Bosh truly the all-star level talent you claim it to be next to Lebron if we're taking the entire east/west comparison?

cuz there are a handful of players who you would take at PF before Bosh, or at the very least consider in comparison to him, during that 2000s era into the early 2010s...

2000s
KG
Dirk
Duncan
Amare
Pau

2010s
TD
KG
Blake
LMA
Love


then you have amped up players, by your own defending, in Boozer, Jamison, etc.

[r15mohd]

good post. lebron's all-around brilliance can also be a curse. why upgrade when lebron can do their jobs too. to be fair to mj...he wasn't nearly as good in every aspect of the gm like lebron is so the bulls really had no choice.

yup...but in will come 3ball to tell us how MJ does do everything equally or good as Lebron. 1st topic will be passing comparisons lol

[3ba11]

ohh now we're back to the East vs West excuse...so if that's of relevance, is Bosh truly the all-star level talent you claim it to be next to Lebron if we're taking the entire east/west comparison?

cuz there are a handful of players who you would take at PF before Bosh, or at the very least consider in comparison to him, during that 2000s era into the early 2010s...

2000s
KG
Dirk
Duncan
Amare
Pau

2010s
TD
KG
Blake
LMA
Love


then you have amped up players, by your own defending, in Boozer, Jamison, etc.


Bosh was an 11-time all-star at 3rd option - aka unprecedented help... :confusedshrug:

Heck, Bosh was All-NBA and 6x all-star before joining Lebron as 3rd option, while Pau was 1x all-star before joining Kobe as 2nd option.. So Lebron-ball clearly needs extra talent to offset the shit brand of ball

[3ba11]

tax-saving moves were made by the Heat ... in coming to Miami, that should have been known that you dont hold back on the check book if Lebron is suiting up for you.

LAL got more taste of that this past season when Lebron called them out after the LARams parade, where the owner or someone from the Rams wore a 'fck them picks' tee. Win now, at all costs, is his mentality - ticket sales, deep playoff runs and overall spotlight that attracts all businesses to Lebron will line back your pockets


So that means Lebron is a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) and never learned how to win - he never learned the teammate fits, chemistry or brand of ball to win organically.. Other players learned to win and know how to foster great chemistry (Curry) but Lebron didn't and is just a talent-based winner

It's sad because talent-based winning only goes 1/3 (low team ceiling) and destroys the franchise, while organic winning gets more chips (better team ceiling) and has longevity (doesn't destroy the franchise... :confusedshrug:

Lebron is literally a dumb ball-dominator (Luka-ball) that needs GM's to completely stack his team - and then he'll still mostly lose!!!!! He has a lottery record against better brands of ball (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic).

[Johnny32]

all-star voting means nothing lol especially when you have a whole country voting for you.

[r15mohd]

Bosh was an 11-time all-star at 3rd option - aka unprecedented help... :confusedshrug:

Heck, Bosh was All-NBA and 6x all-star before joining Lebron as 3rd option, while Pau was 1x all-star before joining Kobe as 2nd option.. So Lebron-ball clearly needs extra talent to offset the shit brand of ball

again, you're talking solely east rating when indicating Bosh's all stars - but 2 posts ago, you're saying Lebron was always beneficial to east as opposed to west because of how weak the east was, and why I brought up all players in the era and if Bosh would be chosen over them and at least be considered as a choice alongside him.

so which is it? this is your hypocritical stances in jumping from criteria to criteria, i'm keeping them like terms

[ShawkFactory]

If Joker continues this level of play for the next 8-10 years then yes he is GOAT level. It doesn't matter who he does or doesn't team up with.

[3ba11]

yup...but in will come 3ball to tell us how MJ does do everything equally or good as Lebron. 1st topic will be passing comparisons lol


Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff career, until the pace and space era began and made the game easier for everyone... (85-93' Jordan vs 06-14' Lebron)

Furthermore, anytime that Jordan played the point guard role, he was far superior passer to Lebron.. The Associated Press said that Jordan was already a better point guard than Magic, Stockton and Isiah after he averaged 30/9/11 in a 25-game stint at point guard in 89' - this was a full 30 years before the "30/10/10 era" where Luka and Westbrook make those numbers commonplace.

Jordan is also the only player ever that averaged 10+ apg in a series without bringing the ball up and playing point guard (91' Finals).

Otoh, Lebron is just a dumb, Luka-style ball-dominator where assists are automatic with that style, but teammate development and team ceiling suffers

So Lebron isn't a better passer than Jordan.. Ultimately, Jordan simply produces more by carrying the scoring load and only getting a couple less assists than Lebron, while having much higher TEAM assists due to Jordan's higher assisted rate (off-ball assist target that facilities ball movement)

So Lebron is an entirely lower-dimension player that ties a coach's hands and forces them to play 1 way - a low ball movement, low team assist brand that gets routinely ragdolled by better brands... Lebron has a lottery record against better brands (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic)

[r15mohd]

Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff career, until the pace and space era began and made the game easier for everyone... (85-93' Jordan vs 06-14' Lebron)

Furthermore, anytime that Jordan played the point guard role, he was far superior passer to Lebron.. The Associated Press said that Jordan was already a better point guard than Magic, Stockton and Isiah after he averaged 30/9/11 in a 25-game stint at point guard in 89' - this was a full 30 years before the "30/10/10 era" where Luka and Westbrook make those numbers commonplace.

Jordan is also the only player ever that averaged 10+ apg in a series without bringing the ball up and playing point guard (91' Finals).

Otoh, Lebron is just a dumb, Luka-style ball-dominator where assists are automatic with that style, but teammate development and team ceiling suffers

So Lebron isn't a better passer than Jordan.. Ultimately, Jordan simply produces more by carrying the scoring load and only getting a couple less assists than Lebron, while having much higher TEAM assists due to Jordan's higher assisted rate (off-ball assist target that facilities ball movement)

So Lebron is an entirely lower-dimension player that ties a coach's hands and forces them to play 1 way - a low ball movement, low team assist brand that gets routinely ragdolled by better brands... Lebron has a lottery record against better brands (Spurs, Warriors, Mavs, Magic)

see what i mean...barely 15mins after :lol

[3ba11]

see what i mean...barely 15mins after :lol


You can't answer any of it because it proves your previous assertion wrong

How does a guy that plays off-ball average more assists for the first 9 years of his playoff career than the biggest ball-dominator ever (85-93' vs 06-14') until the pace and space area made offense easier for everyone?

The off-ball guy is obviously a superior passer than the dumb ball-dominator - that's how

[r15mohd]

You can't answer any of it because it proves your previous assertion wrong

How does a guy that plays off-ball average more assists for the first 9 years of his playoff career than the biggest ball-dominator ever (85-93' vs 06-14') until the pace and space area made offense easier for everyone?

The off-ball guy is obviously a superior passer than the dumb ball-dominator - that's how

it's been answered before...and no, MJ is not a superior passer.

[RRR3]

OP is a 70 year old man posting from a nursing home we really should stop entertaining his dementia.

[3ba11]

it's been answered before...and no, MJ is not a superior passer.


Jordan had better team offenses with far less offensive help - that means he's a smarter player with a better approach to passing (team assists over individual)

Imagine thinking a dumb ball-dominator with underperforming teammates and offenses that only averages 1-2 more assists with more turnovers is a better passer than Jordan - you must watch a lot of cable... :facepalm:

[Spurs m8]

Wow that would be atrocious

Especially if 1 of those rings was also a scrimmage ring

[HylianNightmare]

Lenotthatgood

[StrongLurk]

OP legit hasn't changed a single person's mind on this board about Lebron. If anything, he's made people shit on MJ more lol. OP is working on a decade+ long backfire.

[KNOW1EDGE]

They gotta stop letting just anyone create a thread

[3ba11]

OP legit hasn't changed a single person's mind on this board about Lebron. If anything, he's made people shit on MJ more lol. OP is working on a decade+ long backfire.


I'm not trying to change anyone's mind - I know that most humans can't admit when they're wrong or reject a bill of goods that they've been sold

I simply enjoy putting the facts out there - then I watch people like you have no response except to voice your annoyance that someone disagrees with what you saw on cable television.. pretty pathetic

The facts are that Lebron teamed up with all the best players but barely has 4 rings and lost much more than he won with every super-team he created.. That's nowhere NEAR goat... But carry on being fooled - I know you will

[3ba11]

again, you're talking solely east rating when indicating Bosh's all stars - but 2 posts ago, you're saying Lebron was always beneficial to east as opposed to west because of how weak the east was, and why I brought up all players in the era and if Bosh would be chosen over them and at least be considered as a choice alongside him.

so which is it? this is your hypocritical stances in jumping from criteria to criteria, i'm keeping them like terms


Bosh was All-NBA before joining Lebron... Pau wasn't before joining Kobe

Yet Lebron needed Bosh at 3rd option and Kobe needed Pau at 2nd opt

So Lebron's horrific brand of ball needs more supporting talent

[3ba11]

A better analogy would be if he teamed up with Curry and maybe KAT or something @ 3rd option.

But Jokic and curry would be an amazing fit... and totally unstoppable.


Yeah that's perfect actually because Wade was the #2 player in 2010 (#2 PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48)

so that's like Curry, and then KAT and Bosh are comparable

[SouBeachTalents]

Yeah that's perfect actually because Wade was the #2 player in 2010 (#2 PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48)

so that's like Curry, and then KAT and Bosh are comparable
Classic 3ball. Advanced metrics make Wade the 2nd best player in 2010, but those same advanced metrics that have LeBron top 2 in virtually all of them leave him outside the top 10 :lol While a lot of his top 10 were typically outside the top 5 each season in advanced metrics.

Literally no consistency, claims one criteria determines who's better when it suits his agenda, completely flip flops when it doesn't.

[8Ball]

Even jordan fans like r15mohd cannot support 3ball agenda.

[3ba11]

Classic 3ball. Advanced metrics make Wade the 2nd best player in 2010, but those same advanced metrics that have LeBron top 2 in virtually all of them leave him outside the top 10 :lol While a lot of his top 10 were typically outside the top 5 each season in advanced metrics.

Literally no consistency, claims one criteria determines who's better when it suits his agenda, completely flip flops when it doesn't.


Stats aren't everything but it's common knowledge that Wade was a top 2-3 player in 2009 and 2010 - so he's comparable to Curry this year, while Bosh compares well to KAT, aka tpols was right

Ultimately, it would be a complete joke if Nikola Jokic teamed up with Curry/KAT and made a bunch of Finals like Lebron did.. We're smarter now and everyone would view it as WWF and a charade (fake manufactured resume)

[red1]

jordan's rings are cotton candy when you consider that he only beat the jazz and the decrepit advanced-age lakers

[3ba11]

jordan's rings are cotton candy when you consider that he only beat the jazz and the decrepit advanced-age lakers


Magic was #2 for MVP in 1991

Similar to the 92' Blazers, the 91' Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and far more scoring options.. Meanwhile, the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had more all-stars, so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson in 98'

[red1]

Magic was #2 for MVP in 1991

Similar to the 92' Blazers, the 91' Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and far more scoring options.. Meanwhile, the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had more all-stars, so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson in 98'

cotton.


candy.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/0a/b6/e50ab697343640046e4c51123f20d96f.gif

[red1]

when we get that number one scoring title of all-time - it's officially over 3ball.



GOAT.


James.




meanwhile you're still arguing not top-10 :roll:

[3ba11]

cotton.


candy.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/0a/b6/e50ab697343640046e4c51123f20d96f.gif



Defensive rank

91' Lakers...... 5th
91' Bulls......... 7th

92' Blazers..... 3rd
92' Bulls......... 4th


So the Lakers/Blazers had more defense, scoring options and experience, while the Suns/Sonics had more all-stars

so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson in 98'

[Axe]

Joker is a more efficient player than kobe ever was.

[red1]

Defensive rank

91' Lakers...... 5th
91' Bulls......... 7th

92' Blazers..... 3rd
92' Bulls......... 4th


So the Lakers/Blazers had more defense, scoring options and experience, while the Suns/Sonics had more all-stars

so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson in 98'

yeah for sure I only troll about jordan because I know it annoys you we grew up rooting for and borderline idolizing mike he was the man


just like lebron, aka the GOAT, GOAT James.

[red1]

and no please stop fluffing up the competition. those teams were all great they all made the finals.


they weren't the warriors or spurs though.

[3ba11]

and no please stop fluffing up the competition. those teams were all great they all made the finals.


they weren't the warriors or spurs though.


Klay/Dray hadn't been all-stars yet heading into the 15' season, whereas Stockton/Malone were HOF, while Hornacek had been an all-star with superior career production than Klay across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, efficiency).

So the 10-year organic brand that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson would destroy the 1st-timer Warriors in 2015

[Axe]

Klay/Dray hadn't been all-stars yet heading into the 15' season, whereas Stockton/Malone were HOF, while Hornacek had been an all-star with superior career production than Klay across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, efficiency).

So the 10-year organic brand that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson would destroy the 1st-timer Warriors in 2015
1-9

[red1]

we're coming for that ass


you wasted your life hating


already undisputed top-2



soon to be top-1


https://c.tenor.com/8zUyU3lh7csAAAAC/vince-carter-its-over.gif

[3ba11]

1-9


Not a bad response to the "comp" argument huh?

You won't see that on TV

[Axe]

1-9

[red1]

Not a bad response to the "comp" argument huh?

You won't see that on TV

sorry dude I just have a hard time keeping up with all of the flipflopping dishonest arguments that you always present


I just troll you now with the truth and with facts that you conveniently ignore.

[Spurs m8]

3ball destroys these guys post after post after post

I'm embarrassed for them

[Full Court]

What if Jordan jumped ship in '89 and joined up with Magic and Worthy?

That's basically what Bronie did in 2010.

[red1]

https://c.tenor.com/8zUyU3lh7csAAAAC/vince-carter-its-over.gif

[3ba11]

What if Jordan jumped ship in '89 and joined up with Magic and Worthy?

That's basically what Bronie did in 2010.


Yeah, it's weird in hindsight how Lebron was allowed to do that..

I feel like Joker, Lebron or anyone trying that today would get destroyed the same way Durant got destroyed for joining a 73-win team.

Lebron had kind of hypnotized everyone into feeling sorry for him about the Cavs' front office moves - but that's EVERYONE - 22' Luka, 22' Joker and 89' or 90' Jordan all experienced a front office that had failed up to that point

And we know that the 2009 Cavs had the 3rd-ranked defense compared to 19th for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen across the board offensively (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency)... So Lebron had a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles - Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost again in 10' after adding Jamison/Shaq to a 66-win league favorite