Who would've won the 2020 Magic Johnson WCF MVP award if they had it back then?

[3ba11]

AD obviously carried the Lakers to the Finals

And Lebron's Miami rings were like Durant's because Lebron needed to prove that he could win outside of the Wade/Riley system and that original super-team with Wade/Bosh.

So only the 2016 ring was legit and proved that he was a great player.. It also proved that he lacks sufficient brand to beat Finals teams while carrying the scoring load, so he needs all-time scorers at sidekick like Kyrie/Wade/AD that can nearly match him in the Finals.

Ultimately, he lacks the brand of ball and elite jumpshooting skill needed to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

[1987_Lakers]

Not the guy who is "bird fed" according to OP.

[3ba11]

Not the guy who is "bird fed" according to OP.


AD was the only Laker that year that commanded doubles

Lebron as leading scorer = miss play-in

AD as leading scorer = title

AD facilitates better ball movement..

And "bird-fed" actually means "bailout guy", "possession closer" or "closer"

[coin24]

They should rename the finals runner up (loser) the LeTiny James award

[Sulico]

How many Magic Johnson awards would Magic Johnson win in Magic Johnson's era, and how would Magic Johnson award would be called before Magic Johnson retired?

[Axe]

2020 AD > 2000 Kobe

[Full Court]

It would have been AD - he was the pretty clear-cut MVP.

[ShawkFactory]

Idk it’s close. Their games scores were almost identical.

[3ba11]

Idk it’s close. Their games scores were almost identical.


Except AD was matched up with Joker... and dominated him

And AD was playing DPOY-level defense along with his superior offense, so it isn't even close

Btw, guys can have good gamescore by filling up the hustle stats like steals, blocks and defensive rebounds - that's why guys like Pippen and Lebron have inflated gamescores relative to their scoring burden.. Otoh, AD's gamescore was made up of the stuff that drives winning and carried those Lakers to the Finals - i.e. scoring burden and clutch leader, defensive inspiration

[red1]

got this boy on a leash



OP you damanged mj's GOAT case more than you could ever imagine.



exposed the cotton candy in those cotton candy rings.

[3ba11]

got this boy on a leash



OP you damanged mj's GOAT case more than you could ever imagine.



exposed the cotton candy in those cotton candy rings.


I've solidified MJ's legacy by making sure there's a response that shuts down anyone else's goat case.

This site has confirmed his goat case by busting myths like how Pippen averaged more assists for their Finals, playoffs or regular season career, or how he was the primary defender on Magic, or how Lebron has higher PER and other stats.. Or how Lebron defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load in Finals).. We now know that these are all myths and untruths.

So if someone says "Lebron is goat because of X, Y, and Z", then at least the information now exists (here on ISH) to confirm that the Lebron fan is incorrect

Carry on

[red1]

I've solidified MJ's legacy by making sure there's a response that shuts down anyone else's goat case.

This site has confirmed his goat case by busting myths like how Pippen averaged more assists for their Finals, playoffs or regular season career, or how he was the primary defender on Magic, or how Lebron has higher PER and other stats.

So if someone says "Lebron is goat because of X, Y, and Z", then at least the information now exists (here on ISH) to confirm that the Lebron fan is incorrect

Carry on

you dropped mj's rankings the way an anchor for a boat drops in the ocean. sinking until it cant sink any further.


all of your arguments were always circumstantial "jordan never team-hopped" "jordan went 6 for 6"




you got destroyed my boy. absolutely shit on, my mentally ill friend.





how are you still going to argue that kg is better?

[3ba11]

you dropped mj's rankings the way an anchor for a boat drops in the ocean. sinking until it cant sink any further.


all of your arguments were always circumstantial "jordan never team-hopped" "jordan went 6 for 6"




you got destroyed my boy. absolutely shit on, my mentally ill friend.





how are you still going to argue that kg is better?


Circumstantial?... :facepalm:

Remember when everyone gave Lebron a pass in the 07' Finals by saying things like "he was going 1-on-5" and "all eyes were on him"

It's harder to produce or win while facing maximum defensive attention.(carrying scoring load).. That's why everyone in history had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention.. But any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who always faced maximum defensive attention - he carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

^^^ So there... :pimp:...

I just proved that compared to MJ, everyone has inflated stats (didn't always face maximum defensive attention)

[red1]

Circumstantial?... :facepalm:

Remember when everyone gave Lebron a pass in the 07' Finals by saying things like "he was going 1-on-5" and "all eyes were on him"

It's harder to produce or win while facing maximum defensive attention.(carrying scoring load).

Ultimately, everyone in history needed equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention for entire playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention.. Any period without facing maximum defensive attention is inflated stats compared to Jordan, who carried the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run.

^^^ So there... :pimp:...

I just proved that compared to MJ, everyone has inflated stats (didn't always face maximum defensive attention)

dropping like a rock my son. thats mj's all-time stock that I'm referring to, after every single post of yours.


lebron in the 2007 finals was younger than mj ever was before he beat any significant team


go look it up



and then you consider all of the dogshit teams that mj played - someone go find me mj's greatest playoff rivalry again of the 90's :roll:





meanwhile lebron PROVED that he is a better player than the likes of kobe, kawhi, durant, curry, rose, kyrie, etc etc literally every single player that's ever laced them up since the year 2000 when lebron was 16 years old





jordan's biggest playoff rival was john starks - and sorry to troll like this - a grocery bagger :roll:

[3ba11]

dropping like a rock my son. thats mj's all-time stock that I'm referring to, after every single post of yours.


lebron in the 2007 finals was younger than mj ever was before he beat any significant team


go look it up



and then you consider all of the dogshit teams that mj played - someone go find me mj's greatest playoff rivalry again of the 90's :roll:





meanwhile lebron PROVED that he is a better player than the likes of kobe, kawhi, durant, curry, rose, kyrie, etc etc literally every single player that's ever laced them up since the year 2000 when lebron was 16 years old





jordan's biggest playoff rival was john starks - and sorry to troll like this - a grocery bagger :roll:



Stats at age 22-23 against championship team and #1 defense


Lebron vs 07' Spurs..... 22 on 35%
Lebron vs 08' Celts...... 26 on 35%

Jordan vs 86' Celts...... 44 on 50%


Imagine if Tatum's shitty Finals was REPEATED next year in the 2nd Round - that's what Lebron did at 22-23 years old... So it's clear that he was a spoiled, coddled and overrated

[Shooter]

Good question

And who would've won in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018.

[red1]

Stats at age 22-23 against championship team and #1 defense


Lebron vs 07' Spurs..... 22 on 35%
Lebron vs 08' Celts...... 26 on 35%

Jordan vs 86' Celts...... 44 on 50%


Imagine if Tatum's shitty Finals was REPEATED next year in the 2nd Round - that's what Lebron did at 22-23 years old... So it's clear that he was a spoiled, coddled and overrated

dude all you ever do is rehash the same posts from 10 years ago that were already lame back then - before lebron won 4 finals MVPs on 3 different franchises.



you lost bitch.

[red1]

someone get me a ray allen picture again please with a miami heat trophy

[red1]

ray allen for three.... bang!!!!



https://media1.giphy.com/media/26grzzeWoSsK1ieoU/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115f0aeae2178f966aecb08738f256 f1459e2db4dd&rid=giphy.gif
https://cdn.nba.com/headshots/nba/latest/1040x760/951.png

[3ba11]

Good question

And who would've won in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018.


Bosh was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in 2011 ECF

and Wade was in 2014 ECF

And Kyrie was in the 16' ECF

Ultimately, only Lebron had all-time scorers at sidekick to match his scoring... 1-star teams were needed to win the conference, but Lebron formed super-teams to get a bunch of extra Finals tries

[red1]

Bosh was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in 2011 ECF

and Wade was in 2014 ECF

And Kyrie was in the 16' ECF

Only Lebron had all-time scorers at sidekick to match his scoring... until KD joined Curry

dude you are the worst sore loser of all-time.


why do you always duck everything when you are proven wrong? you cant blame it on your mental illness, you're lucid enough to start 1k threads so it's fair game.



can someone find me the jordan rivalries photo again please?

[Shooter]

dude you are the worst sore loser of all-time.


why do you always duck everything when you are proven wrong? you cant blame it on your mental illness, you're lucid enough to start 1k threads so it's fair game.



can someone find me the jordan rivalries photo again please?

Are MJ alt extremists having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry or was this it?


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

you rang? :lol

[red1]

Are MJ alt extremists having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry or was this it?


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

you rang? :lol

body



****ing.




bag.

[Full Court]

Are MJ alt extremists having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry or was this it?


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

you rang? :lol

MJ was so far above his competition that he was unrivaled.

That's why he's the GOAT. Nobody can even try to say that about Bronie, who's gotten sonned throughout his career.

[Shooter]

MJ was so far above his competition that he was unrivaled.

That's why he's the GOAT. Nobody can even try to say that about Bronie, who's gotten sonned throughout his career.

Yeahhhhhhh

So who was his rival? Starks? :lol LMFAOOOOO

[3ba11]

Yeahhhhhhh

So who was his rival? Starks? :lol LMFAOOOOO


Magic

Isiah

Shaq

Drexler

Barkley

Malone

Bird



That's better than what Lebron faced

Magic and Shaq > anyone Lebron faced

[8Ball]

Bron would have 10 of these awards and Jordan only 6.

[3ba11]

Bron would have 10 of these awards and Jordan only 6.


Lebron was carried to the Finals for 1 of his rings (AD won the 2020 WCF MVP)

So Lebron had 3 rings where he wasn't carried, versus 6 for MJ (in 5 less seasons)

Jordan also won 6 rings while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load), while Lebron won zero against max defensive attention because he always had a near-equal scoring partner in the Finals and also the 16/20 title runs

[red1]

dem grocery bag boyz

[red1]

Are MJ alt extremists having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry or was this it?


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

you rang? :lol

thit shit is just absolute ****ing comedy


even ****ing funnier than the ridiculous vegas odds in some of those lopsided finals series lebron went up against - those 2007 and 2018 vegas odds were just outright laughable :roll: :roll:


boobie gibson was his second best player on that 07 team he dragged to the finals :roll:

[3ba11]

dem grocery bag boyz


Magic, Bird, Isiah, Drexler, Dominique, and Penny are equal or better perimeter players than Lebron faced.. I'll throw Barkley in there too because he did everything

[red1]

Magic, Bird, Isiah, Drexler, Dominique, and Penny are equal or better perimeter players than Lebron faced.. I'll throw Barkley in there too because he did everything

he didnt play magic in his prime during the playoffs

drexler he played in his prime but thats only one player and only one series

dominique is a legend buts that one other player

isiah used to slap mj around like he was his teenaged daughter


not nearly rivals the likes of kobe kawhi durant curry rose duncan parker george ginobili klay etc etc etc etc

[red1]

lebron was hands down the GOAT of his era and he had stiffer competition, period.


better than every single one of those players and arguably better than jordan according to nine-time champion and the closest eyes and most qualified unbiased person possible, steve kerr himself.

[1987_Lakers]

Are MJ alt extremists having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry or was this it?


https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

you rang? :lol

:oldlol:

[3ba11]

he didnt play magic in his prime during the playoffs

drexler he played in his prime but thats only one player and only one series

isiah used to slap mj around like he was his teenaged daughter


not nearly rivals the likes of kobe kawhi durant curry rose duncan parker george ginobili klay etc etc etc etc


Magic was #2 for MVP in 1991

Similar to the 92' Blazers, the 91' Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and far more scoring options.. Meanwhile, the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had more all-stars, so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson

[red1]

Magic was #2 for MVP in 1991

Similar to the 92' Blazers, the 91' Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and far more scoring options.. Meanwhile, the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had more all-stars, so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson

yeah I actually know that. but he was still declined.

and again they didnt have kareem.


it was factually the weakest iteration of those lakers to make the finals.


and then the next best team jordan beat was the 97 and 98 jazz with whiteboys like hornacek and stockton on the perimeter and zero lanky long armed defensive beasts like a kawhi or iggy or kd or even a bruce bowen


meanwhile jordan had pippen on HIS team, the only other defender playing in the league who could make jordan work :roll:

[Axe]

Magic was #2 for MVP in 1991

Similar to the 92' Blazers, the 91' Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and far more scoring options.. Meanwhile, the 93' Suns and 96' Sonics had more all-stars, so Jordan usually faced superior on-paper talent in the Finals.. The Jazz are the only exception, except they had a 10-year organic brand of ball that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson
1-9

[red1]

lebron said artest came to tim grovers gym and gave nba players work when he was 17 years old - already 230lbs and explosive at the rim :roll:

[3ba11]

yeah I actually know that. but he was still declined.

and again they didnt have kareem.


it was factually the weakest iteration of those lakers to make the finals.


and then the next best team jordan beat was the 97 and 98 jazz with whiteboys like hornacek and stockton on the perimeter and zero lanky long armed defensive beasts like a kawhi or iggy or kd or even a bruce bowen


meanwhile jordan had pippen on HIS team, the only other defender playing in the league who could make jordan work :roll:


The 91' Lakers had been to 9 Finals with a better-ranked defense and 4 guys average 17+ in those Finals (more scoring options)

So Jordan was underdog with weaker help on offense, defense and experience, yet he dominated and beat them .. he didn't get out-produced like 12' Lebron (KD out-produced him) and have super-team cast make up for it

:facepalm:

[red1]

jordan was incredible in the early 90's :applause:


I watched the games, went back and saw them.



he was very quick and explosive, fast-twitch, and already had the jumpshot down pat. it was money.




he never beat the spurs or warriors though.

[3ba11]

jordan was incredible in the early 90's :applause:


I watched the games, went back and saw them.



he was very quick and explosive, fast-twitch, and already had the jumpshot down pat. it was money.




he never beat the spurs or warriors though.


He never faced Duncan or Curry but he beat superior players and dynasties like Magic, Shaq and Isiah

When he had a Finals-caliber team, he never lost, while Lebron lost 6 times (often as the preseason favorite)

[red1]

He never faced Duncan or Curry but he beat superior players and dynasties like Magic, Shaq and Isiah

When he had a Finals-caliber team, he never lost, while Lebron lost 6 times (often as the preseason favorite)

lebron is better.

[red1]

unlike jordan, lebron didn't push off on byron russel to get his iconic shot.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YsUkN_sVtII/maxresdefault.jpg

[red1]

better defensive play than the strip on malone.


https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2021/09/lebron-block-2016-finals.jpg

[red1]

more points than malone - and baldan by default

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/28/92/9f2892ed040ffac0f407085a38d9d2ba.jpg

[3ba11]

more points than malone - and baldan by default

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/28/92/9f2892ed040ffac0f407085a38d9d2ba.jpg


More career points but less rings = empty stats

The lower ring count despite more career points means that a lot of those points were EMPTY (bad brand of ball or no impact style of play, aka abnormal ball-dominance, aka big man ball-dominance that makes everyone stand in corner and therefore lacks the teammate fits, development and chemistry to win organically)

[Axe]

1-9

[red1]

we're coming for that ass



https://c.tenor.com/8zUyU3lh7csAAAAC/vince-carter-its-over.gif

[red1]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cgkt9w6PaDs/U1xiu79AgvI/AAAAAAAAyrs/k9__GR95mps/s1600/giphy.gif

[StrongLurk]

More career points but less rings = empty stats

The lower ring count despite more career points means that a lot of those points were EMPTY (bad brand of ball or no impact style of play, aka abnormal ball-dominance, aka big man ball-dominance that makes everyone stand in corner and therefore lacks the teammate fits, development and chemistry to win organically)

I guess MJ's points are empty since Bill Russell has almost twice as many rings, but far fewer career points.

[Axe]

I guess MJ's points are empty since Bill Russell has almost twice as many rings, but far fewer career points.
Lol he just contradicts himself every time.

[StrongLurk]

Lol he just contradicts himself every time.

He'll add some kind of disclaimer or "context" if he does respond...always moving the goal posts.

[Shooter]

I guess MJ's points are empty since Bill Russell has almost twice as many rings, but far fewer career points.

And just like that, StrongLurk with another ether

[Hey Yo]

He never faced Duncan or Curry but he beat superior players and dynasties like Magic, Shaq and Isiah

When he had a Finals-caliber team, he never lost, while Lebron lost 6 times (often as the preseason favorite)

Detroit wasn't a dynasty and Jordan was the 94 preseason favorites and he didn't win one game.

[Shooter]

Detroit wasn't a dynasty and Jordan was the 94 preseason favorites and he didn't win one game.

Imagine if every player got a 2 year rest up to recharge. Only MJ was pvssy enough to do it :lol

[8Ball]

More career points but less rings = empty stats

The lower ring count despite more career points means that a lot of those points were EMPTY (bad brand of ball or no impact style of play, aka abnormal ball-dominance, aka big man ball-dominance that makes everyone stand in corner and therefore lacks the teammate fits, development and chemistry to win organically)

Bill Russel more rings and less points than Jordan.

Jordan = empty stats.

[3ba11]

Bill Russel more rings and less points than Jordan.

Jordan = empty stats.


We're talking scoring leaders, not defenders like Russell or Bruce Bowen

and Jordan had the most rings as the best player in 3-pointer basketball (modern era), not the 2-pointer ball that Russell played

[3ba11]

Detroit wasn't a dynasty and Jordan was the 94 preseason favorites and he didn't win one game.


Jordan won without preseason favorite status in 91', while Lebron never did and LOST a bunch as the preseason favorite (11', 14', 21', 22')

[Axe]

We're talking scoring leaders, not defenders like Russell or Bruce Bowen

and Jordan had the most rings as the best player in 3-pointer basketball (modern era), not the 2-pointer ball that Russell played
Wtf you talking about? Robert horry has 7 rings.

[3ba11]

Wtf you talking about? Robert horry has 7 rings.


Not as the best player

In 3-pointer history, Jordan has the most rings as the best player, aka goat

Furthermore, he's the only player that lacked a go-to teammate for his entire career, so he's the only player that faced maximum defensive attention in every series of his career (carried scoring load in every series). Everyone else needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for entire playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention and therefore have inflated stats compared to Jordan

[Bankaii]

Except AD was matched up with Joker... and dominated him

And AD was playing DPOY-level defense
Did you even watch the series lmao?
AD was getting destroyed by Jokic.
Dwight and McGee (to a lesser degree) helped slow down Jokic.

[Axe]

Not as the best player

In 3-pointer history, Jordan has the most rings as the best player, aka goat

Furthermore, he's the only player that lacked a go-to teammate for his entire career, so he's the only player that faced maximum defensive attention in every series of his career (carried scoring load in every series). Everyone else needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention for entire playoff runs, so they didn't always face maximum defensive attention and therefore have inflated stats compared to Jordan
Baloney. He's more clutch than your true hero kobe too.

[3ba11]

Baloney. He's more clutch than your true hero kobe too.


Should we post Pippen and Kobe's clutch stats (last 5 within 5)

Kobe's clutch stats are on the Durant/Lebron level, while Pippen's are the worst BY FAR of any 90's sidekick

[Axe]

Should we post Pippen and Kobe's clutch stats (last 5 within 5)

Kobe's clutch stats are on the Durant/Lebron level, while Pippen's are the worst BY FAR of any 90's sidekick
But we are talking about robert horry, you clown.

[Shooter]

Ice cold stare down. Told that bald fakkit he was coming for that gambling addicted, dad-killing ass.

7,631 reasons later, he became the true goat.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cgkt9w6PaDs/U1xiu79AgvI/AAAAAAAAyrs/k9__GR95mps/s1600/giphy.gif

[Shooter]

Bill Russel more rings and less points than Jordan.

Jordan = empty stats.

Uh oh, someone just took another dump on 3ball's head :lol Right on his puny head :lol

[3ba11]

But we are talking about robert horry, you clown.


Robert Horry is one of the clutchest players ever

He hit 100 big shots to win 7 chips, while Pippen hit zero to win 6..

Horry's clutch stats destroy Pippen