Karl Malone without John Stockton [better than you think]

[Im Still Ballin]

This is known by several posters and has been touched upon before many times on InsideHoops.



Malone’s play was only marginally synergistic with Stockton. There were small stretches that supported what’s visible on tape: Without Stockton, Malone played 18 games to start the ’98 season, averaging 27.3 points per 75 on +5.8 percent rTS.

He also played four games in 1990 without Stockton, averaging 26.3 points per game at +9.9 rTS, and, in a 1992 playoff game against Portland, Stockton left the game early and Malone marched to 38 points on 58 percent efficiency.

[KNOW1EDGE]

22 games is an extremely small sample size.

But Malone was a force all on his own. He didn’t need, nor was he “made” by Stockton.

Malone was a beast both offensively and defensively. He would have been great on any team. It’s honestly unfortunate that he was such a terrible human being or I think he’d get more credit as far as being one of the NBAs greatest.

[Xiao Yao You]

22 games is an extremely small sample size.

But Malone was a force all on his own. He didn’t need, nor was he “made” by Stockton.

Malone was a beast both offensively and defensively. He would have been great on any team. It’s honestly unfortunate that he was such a terrible human being or I think he’d get more credit as far as being one of the NBAs greatest.

Stockton would have been great on any team as well. First time I saw him play I knew he was special and I thought they should have traded their all-star pg immediately

[Mask the Embiid]

hmmmm interesting.

and what was stockton's stats without malone not counting his final year when he was old and played without malone?

[Xiao Yao You]

hmmmm interesting.

and what was stockton's stats without malone not counting his final year when he was old and played without malone?

Only played without Malone his rookie year and the few games Karl missed over the years

[Mask the Embiid]

So all this time of ppl saying Stockton made malone it looks like it was false...just like ppl saying nash made amare til we seen him that 1st year in NYC and he dominated.


Either malone made stockton or they both would of been dominant regardless

[Xiao Yao You]

both great players regardless

[L.Kizzle]

Kenny Smith could have been in place of Stockton and Malone would have still be Malone.

[Xiao Yao You]

Kenny Smith could have been in place of Stockton and Malone would have still be Malone.

and Barkley would have thrived with Stockton and vice versa

[Xiao Yao You]

Kenny Smith without Hakeem and he's not on TNT

[1987_Lakers]

He was an amazing talent, slightly overrated prime. I would take prime Barkley, KG, Giannis, Dirk over him in a second. '87 McHale > Peak Malone

[L.Kizzle]

and Barkley would have thrived with Stockton and vice versa
Barkley went to the Finals playing with a 20/10 KJ so I agree.

[L.Kizzle]

Kenny Smith without Hakeem and he's not on TNT
Nah, Kenny was on TNT while in Detroit I think (not getting minutes) Hakeem was still playing when Jet was on like his 5th TNT season.

[Im Still Ballin]

He was an amazing talent, slightly overrated prime. I would take prime Barkley, KG, Giannis, Dirk over him in a second. '87 McHale > Peak Malone

I agree.

[L.Kizzle]

He was an amazing talent, slightly overrated prime. I would take prime Barkley, KG, Giannis, Dirk over him in a second. '87 McHale > Peak Malone
CAP

[1987_Lakers]

CAP

What part?

BTW, Elvin Hayes isn't that good either.

[L.Kizzle]

What part?

BTW, Elvin Hayes isn't that good either.
How is 2 time MVP and 2 Finals appearances in their Prime slightly overrated?

[FromDowntown]

malone is the most overrating player in the history of national b association and these are the pf i can take over karl and not blink an eye

list
dirk, mchale, kg, giannis, davis, barkley and can think of more if i need to push karl into the ground more

[L.Kizzle]

What part?

BTW, Elvin Hayes isn't that good either.
Most MVPs in the 90s
4 Jordan
2 K Malone

Most Finals appearances by teams 90s
6 Bulls
2 Rockets
2 Jazz
2 Blazers

Every 1st team in the entire decade
Highest scorer in the decade

[Xiao Yao You]

malone is the most overrating player in the history of national b association and these are the pf i can take over karl and not blink an eye

list
dirk, mchale, kg, giannis, davis, barkley and can think of more if i need to push karl into the ground more

Davis can't stay on the court and Karl missed a handful of games :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

How is 2 time MVP and 2 Finals appearances in their Prime slightly overrated?

- He won an MVP in 1997 because voters got tired of voting for MJ. Jordan was obviously the better player plus his team won more games, no way Malone should have won MVP.

- 1999 was one of the worst years ever in terms of superstar talent, Shaq & Duncan are the only players that jump out to me at the time. Alonzo finished 2nd in MVP voting that year as well, the competition wasn't there.

Look, career wise Malone is a top 20 player ever, incredible longevity, but his prime play overall doesn't jump out to me like it might some casuals.

[FromDowntown]

Davis can't stay on the court and Karl missed a handful of games :roll:

ok i give you the durable style of karl but davis has a higher skill set can u give me that portion?

[L.Kizzle]

- He won an MVP in 1997 because voters got tired of voting for MJ. Jordan was obviously the better player plus his team won more games, no way Malone should have won MVP.

- 1999 was one of the worst years ever in terms of superstar talent, Shaq & Duncan are the only players that jump out to me at the time. Alonzo finished 2nd in MVP voting that year as well, the competition wasn't there.

Look, career wise Malone is a top 20 player ever, incredible longevity, but his prime play overall doesn't jump out to me like it might some casuals.
97 voting tired of MJ, how? He won in 96 and was gone in 95 and 94. Chuck won in 93.

92 MJ
93 Chuck
94 Hakeem
95 Robinson
96 MJ
97 K Malone

[1987_Lakers]

97 voting tired of MJ, how?

Yes, only explanation to why MJ who averaged 30|6|4 and led his team to 69 wins didn't win MVP, they got tired.

Malone winning it in '97 was a lifetime achievement award.

[L.Kizzle]

Yes, only explanation to why MJ who averaged 30|6|4 and led his team to 69 wins didn't win MVP, they got tired.

Malone winning it in '97 was a lifetime achievement award.
Maybe so, but Malone got the hardware. Unless we putting an asterisk beside it then you can say that about every MVP winner when Jordan played just about.

[1987_Lakers]

Maybe so, but Malone got the hardware. Unless we putting an asterisk beside it then you can say that about every MVP winner when Jordan played just about.

Nah, 1997 was clear robbery.

Atleast when Barkley won it in '93 his overall play was more impressive than Malone's & his team won more games than the Bulls, was he a better player than MJ? No, but I can see why he got it because his team won more games than Chicago and the Bulls also regressed, won 10 less games compared to '92.

1990? Again, Magic's team won 8 more games than the Bulls and this was with no Kareem on the Lakers. I can atleast see the reasoning to why MJ didn't get the MVP.

1997? Robbery.

[3ba11]

Anyone see Malone's iso-jumpshooting skill?

He's literally Dirk-like from 2-point range.. unstoppable

Why would he need Stockton or anyone to set him up?.. he was a goat iso player

[KNOW1EDGE]

Stockton would have been great on any team as well. First time I saw him play I knew he was special and I thought they should have traded their all-star pg immediately

Stockton def would have been great on any other team as well.

They are 2 great individual players who played together essentially their entire careers.
They would thrive on any team, they didn’t need each other to be good

[L.Kizzle]

What part?

BTW, Elvin Hayes isn't that good either.
Slam 1997 top 50.
PFs
13 Bob Pettit
16 K Malone
17 Charles Barkley
18 Elvin Hayes
29 Kevin McHale

Slam top 75 2003
13 Karl Malone
14 Bob Pettit
19 Charles Barkley
23 Elvin Hayes
26 Kevin McHale

Slam top 500 2011
14 Bob Pettit
18 Karl Malone
20 Charles Barkley
23 Elvin Hayes
26 Kevin McHale

Slam top 100 2018
20 Charles Barkley
21 Karl Malone
33 Elvin Hayes
40 Kevin McHale
56 Bob Pettit (Holy Cannoli)

Slam top 75 2021
22 Charles Barkley
23 Karl Malone
39 Elvin Hayes
43 Kevin McHale
58 Bob Pettit

Forget Malone and McHale, we need to talk about Bob Pettit goin from 13 to 58.

[HoopsNY]

He was an amazing talent, slightly overrated prime. I would take prime Barkley, KG, Giannis, Dirk over him in a second. '87 McHale > Peak Malone

There is absolutely no reason to take prime KG over Malone. KG did nothing to prove himself to that degree. KG is one of the most overrated players in league history.

[HoopsNY]

- He won an MVP in 1997 because voters got tired of voting for MJ. Jordan was obviously the better player plus his team won more games, no way Malone should have won MVP.

- 1999 was one of the worst years ever in terms of superstar talent, Shaq & Duncan are the only players that jump out to me at the time. Alonzo finished 2nd in MVP voting that year as well, the competition wasn't there.

Look, career wise Malone is a top 20 player ever, incredible longevity, but his prime play overall doesn't jump out to me like it might some casuals.

How does that make sense? The numbers aren't there because it was a lockout season, and the league produced its worst statistical season in history.

Otherwise, it's the same superstars including Shaq, Malone, Duncan, KG, AI, Kidd, Webber, Zo, Hill, GP, etc.