After 10 years with the Wizards Beal is expected to sign 248 million Supermax.

[Kblaze8855]

The “I guess he’s all about the money. Doesn’t wanna win.” reactions are so weird for a guy on the team that drafted him. Aren’t they supposed to stay forever?

Many assume he wants to sign and then demand a trade this season with his money which would make some sense. The number of Stafford and Dame comparisons as a negative are funny though. The “Well don’t complain when you take the money and lose. Nobody feels bad.” talk.

What do we want?

Guys to stay forever on bad teams and do so at a discount?

[warriorfan]

The “I guess he’s all about the money. Doesn’t wanna win.” reactions are so weird for a guy on the team that drafted him. Aren’t they supposed to stay forever?

Many assume he wants to sign and then demand a trade this season with his money which would make some sense. The number of Stafford and Dame comparisons as a negative are funny though. The “Well don’t complain when you take the money and lose. Nobody feels bad.” talk.

What do we want?

Guys to stay forever on bad teams and do so at a discount?

Do you want them to sign albatross contracts that will make them unable to play for a real contending team no matter where they go?

Could you build a championship team with Beal making that type of money?

Same goes with Dame. If you take up that much of the cap….you better be worth it.

When they sign contracts like this it just dooms any team they play for, no matter whether it’s for their originally drafted team or another.

[tontoz]

There was Arenas, Wall and now this. How long until this becomes the worst contract in the league?

[Real Men Wear Green]

What do we want?

To criticize.

[Kblaze8855]

. Do you want them to sign albatross contracts that will make them unable to play for a real contending team no matter where they go?


Beal at 47 million is Klay plus Wiseman who didn’t even play. It’s Middleton plus Ibaka. Horford and White are 42. Dinwiddle, Bertans, and Cauley stein are 40 million+. Luka/Beal/Brunson a contending core? They just made the wcf. Tobias and Melton are 44 million.

Deals of that magnitude are more shocking in an article than when you have to account for them on a roster. And with the cap going up? You’ll be able to move or fit a deal like Beals easily.

[Shooter]

I also love the KG example, too. If the dude stayed with that shitty Minnesota franchise he was going to rot away but instead he said "Hell no" and went to Boston and won a chip, boosting his legacy over getting paid. OG shit.

[GOBB]

My only head scratcher is why would he say he wants to go somewhere to win? Rather you say I’m trying to decide the best situation for me and my family. Because staying in Wash means you’re not winning a damn thing there. Lol

Someone told me “he’s securing generational wealthy, I’m here for it!”. But even if he wasn’t staying in Wash he was gonna secure generational wealth.

Read sixers we’re close to trading for Beal? Not sure how true.


There was Arenas, Wall and now this. How long until this becomes the worst contract in the league?

Didn’t injuries affect the first two?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I also love the KG example, too. If the dude stayed with that shitty Minnesota franchise he was going to rot away but instead he said "Hell no" and went to Boston and won a chip, boosting his legacy over getting paid. OG shit.
No he was traded. And resisted the trade proposal before the Celtics got Ray Allen.

[L.Kizzle]

I also love the KG example, too. If the dude stayed with that shitty Minnesota franchise he was going to rot away but instead he said "Hell no" and went to Boston and won a chip, boosting his legacy over getting paid. OG shit.
This is Brad Beal tho, he's comparable to Michael Redd not KG.

[warriorfan]

Beal at 47 million is Klay plus Wiseman who didn’t even play. It’s Middleton plus Ibaka. Horford and White are 42. Dinwiddle, Bertans, and Cauley stein are 40 million+. Luka/Beal/Brunson a contending core? They just made the wcf. Tobias and Melton are 44 million.

Deals of that magnitude are more shocking in an article than when you have to account for them on a roster. And with the cap going up? You’ll be able to move or fit a deal like Beals easily.

Build a team where 47 mil Beal gets a chip without Steph Curry

[Shogon]

I don't care if the cap is going up... unless it's tripling, you don't hand out that deal.

That is a franchise crippling deal for the duration.

That's a... we're going to be just good enough to not win the lottery and not good enough to win anything in the playoffs type of player/deal. That's EXACTLY what the **** that is.


The biggest problem is people in NBA front offices feel compelled to win now to save their jobs, and you get shit like this. Most executives aren't allowed to tank for multiple years in order to try to get a chance at long term success, like Hinkie was trying and clearly Sam Presti is trying now.

The USA has wholeheartedly moved to a "results NOW" culture, long term be damned. And it's been that way for quite a long time. And it, among other things, is poisoning the country.

[warriorfan]

This is Brad Beal tho, he's comparable to Michael Redd not KG.

Exactly. KG was paid crazy money at a point but he was actually worth it. Bradly Beal? Not so much. Albatross contract right there. Will never be able to make a legit team with Beal getting paid that much. His only value will be to get traded when his contract is expiring to a tanking team in 5 years.

[GOBB]

I don't care if the cap is going up... unless it's tripling, you don't hand out that deal.

That is a franchise crippling deal for the duration.

That's a... we're going to be just good enough to not win the lottery and not good enough to win anything in the playoffs type of player/deal. That's EXACTLY what the **** that is.


The biggest problem is people in NBA front offices feel compelled to win now to save their jobs, and you get shit like this. Most executives aren't allowed to tank for multiple years in order to try to get a chance at long term success, like Hinkie was trying and clearly Sam Presti is trying now.

The USA has wholeheartedly moved to a "results NOW" culture, long term be damned. And it's been that way for quite a long time. And it, among other things, is poisoning the country.

Why do fans like you have all the answers but never reveal the answers? You dudes never explain the altnwrtaice solution which makes sense across the board and makes Wash better in the long run. You don’t give Beal this contract so now what do you do? All this text about what a franchise shouldn’t do blah blah. And nothing on what they should have done instead where the end result is them being better than they are today (with Beal and his deal).

[Shogon]

Why do fans like you have all the answers but never reveal the answers? You dudes never explain the altnwrtaice solution which makes sense across the board and makes Wash better in the long run. You don’t give Beal this contract so now what do you do? All this text about what a franchise shouldn’t do blah blah. And nothing on what they should have done instead where the end result is them being better than they are today (with Beal and his deal).

Why do fans like you insist on thinking that hampering organizations with bad contracts is EVER a good idea?

You let him go. You accept the fact that you aren't going to win with him as your main guy and you MOVE. ON.

You don't cripple your organization into mediocrity for another 5+ years, unable to win even your division and unable to lose enough for a good pick.

Yes, your team will be worse in the near term but YOU LET HIM GO. ACCEPT IT.

Philadelphia is literally wasting Joel Embiid's career as we speak because of short term thinking people such as yourself.

[Kblaze8855]

Build a team where 47 mil Beal gets a chip without Steph Curry


So the most recent obvious example doesn’t count?

47 million is an all star plus a role player today. Like I said Horford and Derrick white are 42 million. It’s Middleton and an 8th man. Simmons and Joe Harris is 50 million+. Kd/Kyrie/Beal not a contender? Nets lost to the champs last year by a toe with less.

We don’t need to build fantasy teams. He can slide into existing teams for players he’s better than plus a guy who doesn’t play.

Like I said the literal champs could afford him easily by swapping the same position and injured role players.

[Shogon]

The one thing I might be overlooking and haven't discussed is the financial side, winning completely disregarded. Teams have to pay certain amounts to reach required salary levels, but... maybe you just do this on one year deals.

Giving Beal that contract is guaranteeing 5 wasted years in which you will end up right back where you started, shitty but perhaps hopeful. Now they're just mediocre and no hope.

I also do not know how much fan engagement is impacted by signing a guy like Beal vs letting him walk and where that ends up with profitability... this is shit that is too complex and data that I do not have access to. So, yeah.

But I need to emphasize... my previous posts were all about legitimately competing for a title being the only consideration.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Why do fans like you have all the answers but never reveal the answers? You dudes never explain the altnwrtaice solution which makes sense across the board and makes Wash better in the long run. You don’t give Beal this contract so now what do you do? All this text about what a franchise shouldn’t do blah blah. And nothing on what they should have done instead where the end result is them being better than they are today (with Beal and his deal).

In this case you should know what he's talking about. Surely as a Philly fan you engender the Process?

[tontoz]

My only head scratcher is why would he say he wants to go somewhere to win? Rather you say I’m trying to decide the best situation for me and my family. Because staying in Wash means you’re not winning a damn thing there. Lol

Someone told me “he’s securing generational wealthy, I’m here for it!”. But even if he wasn’t staying in Wash he was gonna secure generational wealth.

Read sixers we’re close to trading for Beal? Not sure how true.



Didn’t injuries affect the first two?

Arenas was injured before signing his extension.

Wall got hurt before his extension kicked in, signing the supermax after making 3rd team All-NBA. I didn't think he was a supermax player, similar to Beal now.

Wizards are always weak in negotiations, even with lesser players. One year they were tanking allowing Blatche to get a lot of shots and put up numbers. They resigned him two years before he became a free agent. He was still getting paid on that contract years after he was out of the NBA.

[GOBB]

Why do fans like you insist on thinking that hampering organizations with bad contracts is EVER a good idea?

You let him go. You accept the fact that you aren't going to win with him as your main guy and you MOVE. ON.

You don't cripple your organization into mediocrity for another 5+ years, unable to win even your division and unable to lose enough for a good pick.

Yes, your team will be worse in the near term but YOU LET HIM GO. ACCEPT IT.

Philadelphia is literally wasting Joel Embiid's career as we speak because of short term thinking people such as yourself.

You’re generally speaking because that doesn’t apply to me. I’ve gone on record that I would let James Harden walk before giving him the super duper max. I’ve gone on record that I was a huge Sam Hinkie supporter and respected his vision. And how overpaying to be stuck on mediocrity isn’t the way to go. So contracts like Brand, Horford etc are bad deals. You’re preaching to the choir d*ckhead. But you offer no solutions besides “don’t do it. Be ass for years and figure something out later on.”. I guess your incapable of having any alternatives on what you should do now. You continue to duck and dodge with no substance. But you go into a long ass detailed rant on why you shouldn’t tho. Hilarious.

[Shogon]

You’re generally speaking because that doesn’t apply to me. I’ve gone on record that I would let James Harden walk before giving him the super duper max. I’ve gone on record that I was a huge Sam Hinkie supporter and respected his vision. And how overpaying to be stuck on mediocrity isn’t the way to go. So contracts like Brand, Horford etc are bad deals. You’re preaching to the choir d*ckhead. But you offer no solutions besides “don’t do it. Be ass for years and figure something out later on.”. I guess your incapable of having any alternatives on what you should do now. You continue to duck and dodge with no substance. But you go into a long ass detailed rant on why you shouldn’t tho. Hilarious.

The solution is to not do it and let him walk or do a S&T for assets. What the **** else is there to say? Yes, figure it out later. That's exactly right.

What's so hard to understand here? What is your problem?

You say you get it, but then you contradict yourself in the VERY NEXT couple of sentences. lol.

[GOBB]

In this case you should know what he's talking about. Surely as a Philly fan you engender the Process?

My issue with him is he continues to rant but no solutions or ideas what they should do instead. Yes I was a huge supporter of Hinkies process. Loved bucking the system and getting away from the status quo. But I don’t see how keeping a guy in his prime like Brad Beal as a bad thing. You let him walk and you might as well buy a memory foam mattress and get comfortable in the lottery. I feel with Beal locked up you can build around him.

[Shooter]

No he was traded. And resisted the trade proposal before the Celtics got Ray Allen.

Um...Wrong. He wanted OUT.

"I called Kobe Bryant 20 times about the Lakers, man!"

Kevin Garnett reveals the shocking reason why a team-up between the Black Mamba and Big-ticket never happened.


In 2007, Garnett wanted out of the Timberwolves and was looking in the market at teams that would fit him best. He was still under contract, but he had made arrangements with the franchise to be traded where he wanted to go. And it seems, initially, his first option was Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-i-called-kobe-bryant-20-times-about-the-lakers-man-kevin-garnett-reveals-the-shocking-reason-why-a-team-up-between-the-black-mamba-and-big-ticket-never-happened/

[Kblaze8855]

The biggest issue continues to be people getting sticker shock because just how much money the nba makes compared to even recent times hasn’t sunk in. The cap is a percentage of revenue. Salaries are by percentage. Beal at 48 million makes Blazers Rasheed money. He makes Bryant Reeves grizzlies money. Mcdyess on the Nuggets cap hit relative to todays cap? 59 million dollars.

All of this made possible by a 25 billion dollar rights deal. The nba is negotiating a 70+ billion dollar extension.

Forget these giant numbers and how much they shock you. You came up in an nba with a 40 million dollar cap. It’s 120+ now which is why not quite superstars who made 15 million in that era now make 45.

Youre gonna have to start counting cap percentages not dollar figures or drive yourself crazy when Trae is making 82 million at the end of a contract.

The nba will have to expand teams and roster size on top of it to keep that from happening. Make peace with it. As wild as it sounds 50 million isn’t THAT much. It’s 30 million shy of what Patrick Ewing made relative to the cap.

[Shogon]

I feel with Beal locked up you can build around him.

And here, the crux of the true issue is revealed, that you don't get it and you don't understand.

[Shogon]

The biggest issue continues to be people getting sticker shock because just how much money the nba makes compared to even recent times hasn’t sunk in. The cap is a percentage of revenue. Salaries are by percentage. Beal at 48 million makes Blazers Rasheed money. He makes Bryant Reeves grizzlies money. Mcdyess on the Nuggets cap hit relative to todays cap? 59 million dollars.

All of this made possible by a 25 billion dollar rights deal. The nba is negotiating a 70+ billion dollar extension.

Forget these giant numbers and how much they shock you. You came up in an nba with a 40 million dollar cap. It’s 120+ now which is why not quite superstars who made 15 million in that era now make 45.

Youre gonna have to start counting cap percentages not dollar figures or drive yourself crazy when Trae is making 82 million at the end of a contract.

The nba will have to expand teams and roster size on top of it to keep that from happening. Make peace with it. As wild as it sounds 50 million isn’t THAT much. It’s 30 million shy of what Patrick Ewing made relative to the cap.

Yes, inflation, TV deals, new revenue streams, expanding cap, I get it. Believe me, I do. But everything is relative, and while the cap is going up, it's not going up FAST ENOUGH to give Bradley Beal a SUPERMAX deal and be a contender within those 5 years, thus they are wasted and the rebuild is just kicked down the road for another 5 years. Period.

[GOBB]

The solution is to not do it and let him walk or do a S&T for assets. What the **** else is there to say? Yes, figure it out later. That's exactly right.

What's so hard to understand here? What is your problem?

You say you get it, but then you contradict yourself in the VERY NEXT couple of sentences. lol.

Yes let a guy in his prime at 28 walk and be ass. Or you can use your brain and come up with S & T scenarios that benefit Wash instead of making them Orlando Magic living in the lottery. His contract doesn’t cripple the Wizards. It’s not a pats his prime overpay. It’s not a tier 2 or 3 free agent you overpay.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Um...Wrong. He wanted OUT.

"I called Kobe Bryant 20 times about the Lakers, man!"

Kevin Garnett reveals the shocking reason why a team-up between the Black Mamba and Big-ticket never happened.



https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-i-called-kobe-bryant-20-times-about-the-lakers-man-kevin-garnett-reveals-the-shocking-reason-why-a-team-up-between-the-black-mamba-and-big-ticket-never-happened/

That's him wanting to be a Laker not a Celtic. Read what you wrote.

[GOBB]

And here, the crux of the true issue is revealed, that you don't get it and you don't understand.

You rooted for a sh*tty franchise so long you crave seeing another one. Brad Beal is in his prime and getting paid accordingly. If having him means you’re going to be stuck in mediocrity then you don’t know your head from your ass.

[Shogon]

If having him means you’re going to be stuck in mediocrity then you don’t know your head from your ass.

:roll::roll:

Ok, well, I'll be waiting for the Wizards to become a contender with that contract on the books right over here. You let me know when I need to wake up.

BTW, the Magic aren't stuck in the lottery by design... they're grossly incompetent. Sort of how the 76ers are now since Hinkie's departure with a slow spiral downward.

[GOBB]

The biggest issue continues to be people getting sticker shock because just how much money the nba makes compared to even recent times hasn’t sunk in. The cap is a percentage of revenue. Salaries are by percentage. Beal at 48 million makes Blazers Rasheed money. He makes Bryant Reeves grizzlies money. Mcdyess on the Nuggets cap hit relative to todays cap? 59 million dollars.

All of this made possible by a 25 billion dollar rights deal. The nba is negotiating a 70+ billion dollar extension.

Forget these giant numbers and how much they shock you. You came up in an nba with a 40 million dollar cap. It’s 120+ now which is why not quite superstars who made 15 million in that era now make 45.

Youre gonna have to start counting cap percentages not dollar figures or drive yourself crazy when Trae is making 82 million at the end of a contract.

The nba will have to expand teams and roster size on top of it to keep that from happening. Make peace with it. As wild as it sounds 50 million isn’t THAT much. It’s 30 million shy of what Patrick Ewing made relative to the cap.

Exactly, these pseudo gms kill me with their nonsense. This isn’t Tobias Harris getting the max.

[tontoz]

Beal has one All-NBA team in his career and that was 3rd team. Would anyone here consider him a top 20 player currently?

[GOBB]

:roll::roll:

Ok, well, I'll be waiting for the Wizards to become a contender with that contract on the books right over here. You let me know when I need to wake up.

Clearly the wizards right now are NOT a contender. That’s what gms jobs are for. To make moves to become a contender. Trades, free agency etc. what are you remedial? But to let someone young in thier prime walk over max money? Ludicrous.

[FultzNationRISE]

Why do fans like you insist on thinking that hampering organizations with bad contracts is EVER a good idea?

You let him go. You accept the fact that you aren't going to win with him as your main guy and you MOVE. ON.

You don't cripple your organization into mediocrity for another 5+ years, unable to win even your division and unable to lose enough for a good pick.

Yes, your team will be worse in the near term but YOU LET HIM GO. ACCEPT IT.

Philadelphia is literally wasting Joel Embiid's career as we speak because of short term thinking people such as yourself.

This would be true in a strictly probabilistic sense that if you let other teams make salary mistakes now while you dont, youre eventually going to emerge on top later down the line.

HOWEVER... there is an issue. Which is that you arent the only side with an angle. Agents and players also have pull in the league and if you dont pay Beal, theyre gonna remember that. If you get next year’s top pick, the top prospect’s agent might suggest he play a year overseas and re-enter the draft next time becauase youre a franchise that doesnt pay up.

Thats kind of the double edged sword. You have to make smart moves to win... but you also have to make your allies happy to win. And sometimes the two conflict.

Sometimes you have to realize, look, we cant get a perfect result here, lets just be satisfied everyone involved is banking hundreds of mills to live it up, while doofuses like rrr3 and bladefd complain about it yet sit at home every night watching our games and sucking their thumbs like helpless losers.

Ya know? There are rarely perfect solutions in an imperfect world.

[GOBB]

Beal has one All-NBA team in his career and that was 3rd team. Would anyone here consider him a top 20 player currently?

Yes top 20, arguable top 15

[Kblaze8855]

Yes, inflation, TV deals, new revenue streams, expanding cap, I get it. Believe me, I do. But everything is relative, and while the cap is going up, it's not going up FAST ENOUGH to give Bradley Beal a SUPERMAX deal and be a contender within those 5 years, thus they are wasted and the rebuild is just kicked down the road for another 5 years. Period.


You really don’t seem to get it. The cap doesn’t have to go up. It’s not that much right now…you just feel like it is because you have been looking at nba deals since the cap was a third of this. When we started here the salary cap was less than a max deal pays a guy in a season now. Role players on contenders have made the same cap hit these superstars are. A finals team just paid two role players a combined 40+ million.

The wizards won’t contend because they already aren’t good and they wouldn’t be good if he made 25 million either. He’s just getting the market rate for the likely same net result. If you establish yourself as a team that doesn’t even pay the market rate don’t worry about your contending status to begin with because you’ll never win.

The warriors just paid a tax bill bigger than some teams payroll. If you don’t wanna win bad enough to pay then you can hardly complain you aren’t contending. If you won’t sign your homegrown 30ppg guys I don’t know what the point is of even trying to draft well.

If you’re only gonna pay all time elites you’ll never pay anyone and just be the Sterling era clippers for 30-40 years. Which to be fair the wizards aren’t far from anyway but…I don’t know if the nba wants owners like that.

[Shogon]

This would be true in a strictly probabilistic sense that if you let other teams make salary mistakes now while you dont, youre eventually going to emerge on top later down the line.

HOWEVER... there is an issue. Which is that you arent the only side with an angle. Agents and players also have pull in the league and if you dont pay Beal, theyre gonna remember that. If you get next year’s top pick, the top prospect’s agent might suggest he play a year overseas and re-enter the draft next time becauase youre a franchise that doesnt pay up.

Thats kind of the double edged sword. You have to make smart moves to win... but you also have to make your allies happy to win. And sometimes the two conflict.

Sometimes you have to realize, look, we cant get a perfect result here, lets just be satisfied everyone involved is banking hundreds of mills to live it up, while doofuses like rrr3 and bladefd complain about it yet sit at home every night watching our games and sucking their thumbs like helpless losers.

Ya know? There are rarely perfect solutions in an imperfect world.

Your post isn't completely without merit, however, there's always a new buyer. The market changes. Yes, reputations linger for a while, but that can change. I don't think not giving Bradley Beal the supermax will damage the Wizards reputation beyond them ever having a chance ever again.

He flat out isn't that player. He's not. I don't care what anyone says and he's not getting that me if I'm thinking long term.

[tontoz]

Yes top 20, arguable top 15

:oldlol:

You obviously haven't watched him much. His defense is embarrassing most of the time.

20/21 was arguably his best season. His +/- were just ok because he was so lazy on D.

http://www.82games.com/2021/20WAS6.HTM#onoff

He was ranked 14th in RPM that year.....among 2s.


When Westbrook was with us many of the fans thought he was our MVP.

[Kblaze8855]

Your post isn't completely without merit, however, there's always a new buyer. The market changes. Yes, reputations linger for a while, but that can change. I don't think not giving Bradley Beal the supermax will damage the Wizards reputation beyond them ever having a chance ever again.

He flat out isn't that player. He's not. I don't care what anyone says and he's not getting that me if I'm thinking long term.

Hes a max player to every team in the nba and I suspect they don’t care what you think either.

[GOBB]

:oldlol:

You obviously haven't watched him much. His defense is embarrassing most of the time.

20/21 was arguably his best season. His +/- were just ok because he was so lazy on D.

http://www.82games.com/2021/20WAS6.HTM#onoff

He was ranked 14th in RPM that year.....among 2s.

Brad Beal is a bucket getter and playmaker. Why are we talkin defense? Booker defends? Trae Young? Curry? D.Mitchell? Harden? Not too many 2 ways stars bruh.

[Shogon]

You really don’t seem to get it. The cap doesn’t have to go up. It’s not that much right now…you just feel like it is because you have been looking at nba deals since the cap was a third of this. When we started here the salary cap was less than a max deal pays a guy in a season now. Role players on contenders have made the same cap hit these superstars are. A finals team just paid two role players a combined 40+ million.

The wizards won’t contend because they already aren’t good and they wouldn’t be good if he made 25 million either. He’s just getting the market rate for the likely same net result. If you establish yourself as a team that doesn’t even pay the market rate don’t worry about your contending status to begin with because you’ll never win.

The warriors just paid a tax bill bigger than some teams payroll. If you don’t wanna win bad enough to pay then you can hardly complain you aren’t contending. If you won’t sign your homegrown 30ppg guys I don’t know what the point is of even trying to draft well.

If you’re only gonna pay all time elites you’ll never pay anyone and just be the Sterling era clippers for 30-40 years. Which to be fair the wizards aren’t far from anyway but…I don’t know if the nba wants owners like that.

I do get it. That deal is probably going to end up north of 50 million in its last year in 2027. That's a third of the projected cap in 2027. A ****ing third for a guy who literally is not capable of being the best player on a true championship contender.

The Wizards are VIRTUALLY guaranteed to be mediocre the entire time, at which point they will trade him at the end of his deal for more mediocrity or possibly let him walk and begin the rebuild... and for what? 5 years of playoff busts just so that they can be FORCED to rebuild at that time rather than doing it by design and choice and strategically?


BTW, all this from a guy who said "all that money for a guy that's just a little better than OK" in reference to Jaylen Brown getting almost 30 million a year. Which I agreed with, btw.

And now you want to argue that Beal @ 45-50 is a better deal than that or something? lol.

[FultzNationRISE]

Your post isn't completely without merit, however, there's always a new buyer. The market changes. Yes, reputations linger for a while, but that can change. I don't think not giving Bradley Beal the supermax will damage the Wizards reputation beyond them ever having a chance ever again.

He flat out isn't that player. He's not. I don't care what anyone says and he's not getting that me if I'm thinking long term.


I agree with you on that, Im just not sure the organization cares enough either way to burn the bridge. A lot of front office guys know player agents personally, theyre friends with them. A lot of them probably figure “lets just get everyone paid, we’re the Washington Wizards nobody expects us to compete for titles.”

WE want them all to take the “Lets do our best to win a title because the fans deserve it so much!!!!! And that means turning this deal down” approach, but in reality most franchises probably dont think that way.

Dont get me wrong, the Wiz arent gonna go into a tax either just to make player agents are happy. But they can do a nice PR move by paying Beal while keeping the Players Union and the agents happy, keep the rest of the cap in manageable shape, make their big TV money as fans continue buying tickets and merch REGARDLESS.... and it is what it is.

[Shogon]

Hes a max player to every team in the nba and I suspect they donÂ’t care what you think either.

He is not a supermax player to every team in the NBA and there are teams that are smart enough to not give him that deal, believe it or not. I believe we just saw two in the Finals that wouldn't, for starters.

And most NBA front offices are dumb as **** because most people are dumb as ****. We want these people to be smarter and hope that they are because of the positions they hold, but all too often that is not the case, unfortunately.

[FultzNationRISE]

Hes a max player to every team in the nba and I suspect they don’t care what you think either.

Ehhh, not sure this is true. At least not strictly from the standpoint that every team believes signing him to a max improves their chances of building a winner. Maybe if theres data that teams with a “franchise player” do more revenue, but it wouldnt be because they think Bradley Beal on a max deal is a key component to winning titles IMO.

[tontoz]

Brad Beal is a bucket getter and playmaker. Why are we talkin defense? Booker defends? Trae Young? Curry? D.Mitchell? Harden? Not too many 2 ways stars bruh.

You don't have to be a 2 way star. Just try a little ffs.

Curry is far better on D than Beal has ever been. GS ranked first in the league in defensive efficiency and they gave up 4.4 fewer ppg with Curry on the court.

http://www.82games.com/2122/21GSW3.HTM#onoff


Curry got switched on Tatum a bunch of times in the Finals and GS didn't bother sending help.

Booker is making $33 million next year. I would be fine with resigning Beal for that amount.

[bladefd]

Beal at 47 million is Klay plus Wiseman who didn’t even play. It’s Middleton plus Ibaka. Horford and White are 42. Dinwiddle, Bertans, and Cauley stein are 40 million+. Luka/Beal/Brunson a contending core? They just made the wcf. Tobias and Melton are 44 million.

Deals of that magnitude are more shocking in an article than when you have to account for them on a roster. And with the cap going up? You’ll be able to move or fit a deal like Beals easily.

He is not worth supermax, which is for the upper echelon of superstars in the NBA. Beal is a star without a doubt but not someone you can build a championship contender around.

[Kblaze8855]

Actually I said “What a time to be better than ok” and said nothing against the deal I can find. It’s just about how much money players make.

And yea. 30%. Aka….Big Z Cleveland money. Mutombo on Philly money. Damon Stoudamire on Portland. It’s what lots of teams second or third best players have been making for 20 years without you noticing because 12-15 is less shocking to hear.

[Kblaze8855]

Ehhh, not sure this is true. At least not strictly from the standpoint that every team believes signing him to a max improves their chances of building a winner. Maybe if theres data that teams with a “franchise player” do more revenue, but it wouldnt be because they think Bradley Beal on a max deal is a key component to winning titles IMO.


You imagine Riley was looking to get him for several years to then let him walk with an offer less than the max?

Players well below Beal get their max. Always have.

The first of these eye popping deals was to Mike Conley who had never even been an all star. That 150 million we all lost it over seems a lot less major now. I promise you…next cba youll feel exactly the same about all the current max guys.

[Shogon]

Actually I said “What a time to be better than ok” and said nothing against the deal I can find. It’s just about how much money players make.

And yea. 30%. Aka….Big Z Cleveland money. Mutombo on Philly money. Damon Stoudamire on Portland. It’s what lots of teams second or third best players have been making for 20 years without you noticing because 12-15 is less shocking to hear.

Bradley Beal is not the second best player on a Finals team either, btw. Maybe third, maybe.

[GOBB]

You imagine Riley was looking to get him for several years to then let him walk with an offer less than the max?

Players well below Beal get their max. Always have.

The first of these eye popping deals was to Mike Conley who had never even been an all star. That 150 million we all lost it over seems a lot less major now. I promise you…next cba youll feel exactly the same about all the current max guys.

Exactly

[GOBB]

Bradley Beal is not the second best player on a Finals team either, btw. Maybe third, maybe.

You just don’t like Beal. Fine. Makes sense and gives me a better understanding over these posts from you.

[Kblaze8855]

So you swap him for Middleton the Hawks with injured Trae knock the Bucks out? Or a team of Steph/Beal/Wiggins/Dray loses to the Mavs?

I take that wrong?

[ImKobe]

The “I guess he’s all about the money. Doesn’t wanna win.” reactions are so weird for a guy on the team that drafted him. Aren’t they supposed to stay forever?

Many assume he wants to sign and then demand a trade this season with his money which would make some sense. The number of Stafford and Dame comparisons as a negative are funny though. The “Well don’t complain when you take the money and lose. Nobody feels bad.” talk.

What do we want?

Guys to stay forever on bad teams and do so at a discount?

Nothing wrong with him taking the bag if offered. Championships are so hard to win and no one would give up tens of millions per year in his place. Beal is a very good player and you could obviously build a Playoff team around him with a 2nd/3rd round ceiling. Washington has the talent to be in the POs next year, they were a Playoff team for a large part of the season and that's with the injuries.

[DMAVS41]

So you swap him for Middleton the Hawks with injured Trae knock the Bucks out? Or a team of Steph/Beal/Wiggins/Dray loses to the Mavs?

I take that wrong?

People are insane.

Beal is just turning 29 and he's a great offensive player...the kind of player pretty much every team wants. Championship teams want him because he can play off the ball and also create when needed...and bad teams want him because he can give you like 25 plus a night.

There is no universe in which a 29 year old player like Beal doesn't get his max.

The arguments against are basically just..."yea, well...he's not Giannis or Luka or Jokic"...cool...that means nothing for this conversation.

[DMAVS41]

Actually I said “What a time to be better than ok” and said nothing against the deal I can find. It’s just about how much money players make.

And yea. 30%. Aka….Big Z Cleveland money. Mutombo on Philly money. Damon Stoudamire on Portland. It’s what lots of teams second or third best players have been making for 20 years without you noticing because 12-15 is less shocking to hear.

I agree...

I guess you have come around a bit on the salary stuff. You were pretty against the Porter signing even though the Wizards couldn't use the money on other players because they were over the cap and were almost for sure going to be able to flip him for a neutral or positive deal if they had to (which they did)...

[tontoz]

People are insane.

Beal is just turning 29 and he's a great offensive player...the kind of player pretty much every team wants. Championship teams want him because he can play off the ball and also create when needed...and bad teams want him because he can give you like 25 plus a night.

There is no universe in which a 29 year old player like Beal doesn't get his max.

The arguments against are basically just..."yea, well...he's not Giannis or Luka or Jokic"...cool...that means nothing for this conversation.


In 10 seasons he has only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. The reality of Beal doesn't match his reputation. Over the last 4 seasons his best shooting season from 3 was 35.3%. His jumper has gotten worse over time.

The supermax wasn't created for guys like him.

What did BigZ win pre Lebron? Just because he made that much doesn't mean it wasn't a bad contract.

[DMAVS41]

In 10 seasons he has only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. The reality of Beal doesn't match his reputation. Over the last 4 seasons his best shooting season from 3 was 35.3%. His jumper has gotten worse over time.

The supermax wasn't created for guys like him.

What did BigZ win pre Lebron? Just because he made that much doesn't mean it wasn't a bad contract.

I definitely agree that it wasn't made for a player like Beal...

That doesn't change the fact that a player like him at age 29 is going to get it...or something so close to it the difference doesn't matter.

[Kblaze8855]

Porter was a role player who made 100 million to effectively not exist. Max deals for people who aren’t worth talking about are a bit different than guys who have been stars for 5-6 years. In every era an Otto Porter making 27 million or that caps equivalent to be nothing of note would be fairly infamous. It’s as big a money burn as has existed. I’m sure there are similar ones(especially relative to the eras) but not many. One of those players only to be mentioned due to the hilarity of modern sports economics.

[Shogon]

In 10 seasons he has only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. The reality of Beal doesn't match his reputation. Over the last 4 seasons his best shooting season from 3 was 35.3%. His jumper has gotten worse over time.

The supermax wasn't created for guys like him.


No, it wasn't. And the reason that these posters are thinking it was or are acting like it's ok due to all the bad contracts of the past, is because there are enough dumb GMs in the league that would give him that deal and lock themselves up and thus the "market" if you will, has deemed him that valuable, even though in reality he is not. This is what happens when you are playing with constraints on salary limits and "only" 30 teams. There are artificial, if you will, values assigned to the players.

It's not just dumb GMs though, it's pressure from dumb owners or owners that don't care about going all the way.


He's a terrific NBA player but no team that was serious about championship aspirations would add him to their roster at that dollar amount unless they're already so far over the cap none of it matters anyways and they're going all in with him coming in as their third or fourth best player.

[Kblaze8855]

In 10 seasons he has only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. The reality of Beal doesn't match his reputation. Over the last 4 seasons his best shooting season from 3 was 35.3%. His jumper has gotten worse over time.

The supermax wasn't created for guys like him.

What did BigZ win pre Lebron? Just because he made that much doesn't mean it wasn't a bad contract.


It was a fairly standard contract for such a player. The numbers don’t come from nowhere. A pretty good not quite all star big used to get 12 million and not be earth shattering news. 12 million is now 36-40 with the bigger cap so it is what it is. What the people won is irrelevant. Put everyone on whatever you think their cap hit should be and 29 of them still lose and 25 will be on teams that weren’t even close.

These are just the prices stars cost. If you don’t want to pay star player costs you shouldn’t own an nba team. And you don’t. So your complaints are fine by me. Just everyone speaking their minds. But you shouldn’t be surprised even if you are annoyed. Beal type players get max contracts. Always will.

[DMAVS41]

Porter was a role player who made 100 million to effectively not exist. Max deals for people who aren’t worth talking about are a bit different than guys who have been stars for 5-6 years. In every era an Otto Porter making 27 million or that caps equivalent to be nothing of note would be fairly infamous. It’s as big a money burn as has existed. I’m sure there are similar ones(especially relative to the eras) but not many. One of those players only to be mentioned due to the hilarity of modern sports economics.

Agree he was a role player...a high-end role player though...

He was 23 years old...the 3rd pick in the draft...coming off shooting 43% from 3 with size and versatility on both ends...

Just like there is no universe Beal doesn't basically get his max...there is no universe in which Porter (especially considering the team couldn't use any money because they were over the cap)...doesn't basically get his max.

Same principles apply.

[Kblaze8855]

. No, it wasn't. And the reason that these posters are thinking it was or are acting like it's ok due to all the bad contracts of the past, is because there are enough dumb GMs in the league that would give him that deal and lock themselves up and thus the "market" if you will, has deemed him that valuable, even though in reality he is not.


Yes that’s how the market works. The Wizards would pay him. Knicks. Heat. Lakers would love the chance. Philly paid Harris like 180 think they don’t wanna max Beal if they could?

Hes a max player.

You can not like what max players are but it’s hard to argue he isn’t what they generally have been in reality. It doesn’t take some stupid franchise making an unusual decision. A 29 year old who had been all star level for years hits the market healthy that’s what he’s worth. In whatever era.

[Kblaze8855]

Agree he was a role player...a high-end role player though...

He was 23 years old...the 3rd pick in the draft...coming off shooting 43% from 3 with size and versatility on both ends...

Just like there is no universe Beal doesn't basically get his max...there is no universe in which Porter (especially considering the team couldn't use any money because they were over the cap)...doesn't basically get his max.

Same principles apply.

Except in this universe high end role players don’t tend to get a max.

In this universe every Bradley Beal ever…did.

Non max Porters are…almost all porters. Non max Beals are the rare exceptions who signed early and ruined their earning potential.

[DMAVS41]

Except in this universe high end role players don’t tend to get a max.

In this universe every Bradley Beal ever…did.

Non max Porters are…almost all porters. Non max Beals are the rare exceptions who signed early and ruined their earning potential.

Broadly speaking...I agree...although they got roughly 18 to 20 million a year at the time...iirc

23 year old former 3rd picks that are 6-8 and shoot 43% from 3 that play solid team ball on both ends are getting between 90 and 120 million a year...again, especially from a team that can't spend the money elsewhere.

Specifics matter...

[tontoz]

It was a fairly standard contract for such a player. The numbers don’t come from nowhere. A pretty good not quite all star big used to get 12 million and not be earth shattering news. 12 million is now 36-40 with the bigger cap so it is what it is. What the people won is irrelevant. Put everyone on whatever you think their cap hit should be and 29 of them still lose and 25 will be on teams that weren’t even close.

These are just the prices stars cost. If you don’t want to pay star player costs you shouldn’t own an nba team. And you don’t. So your complaints are fine by me. Just everyone speaking their minds. But you shouldn’t be surprised even if you are annoyed. Beal type players get max contracts. Always will.


Max and supermax are two different things. A supermax deal is 35% of the cap. Beal has 3 All-Star games in 10 years and 1 All-NBA 3rd team. He just isn't a supermax player.

The supermax is for elite players, guys who are consistent All-NBA players and automatic All-Star selections. Beal isnt that.

[DMAVS41]

Max and supermax are two different things. A supermax deal is 35% of the cap. Beal has 3 All-Star games in 10 years and 1 All-NBA 3rd team. He just isn't a supermax player.

The supermax is for elite players, guys who are consistent All-NBA players and automatic All-Star selections. Beal isnt that.

I think we all agree he's not that level of player...but Blaze is right that guys like him are going to get it...or so close to it...it doesn't matter.

What is he worth...not to you...maybe you think he's not that good or something...but trying to remove our personal biases....what would you be okay with...5 years 200 million?

[tontoz]

I think we all agree he's not that level of player...but Blaze is right that guys like him are going to get it...or so close to it...it doesn't matter.

What is he worth...not to you...maybe you think he's not that good or something...but trying to remove our personal biases....what would you be okay with...5 years 200 million?

I would be ok with 35 million per year and that is assuming that this past year was an anomoly and that he will return to the level of the previous two years.

$50 million/yr is too much.

I would disagree about Riley paying him that much. He is playing hardball with Herro right now.

[Kblaze8855]

And in the end…non max Porters are all but like…4ish…of the 800 Porters. Non max Beals are virtually non existent once we had a cba to define such things. A max Porter is an obvious exception by ability even ignoring that he has been an absolute nothing since. Factoring it in he may be one of the worst investments in sports history. What he play the last 5 years? 100-150 games? I watched him be nothing on the Bulls part of that time. Real John Wall situation except Wall proved what he was before getting paid. He’s gotta be near the bottom all time in great basketball per dollar spent.

Seems a good young(somehow…still) guy and his rape of the league doesn’t bug me but it is what it is. It’s Matt Harpring for the cap hit of an all star. Good job by his people. But those guys getting that kinda bag will always stand out.

Porter types…Duncan Robinson types. They happen. And are noteworthy in their weirdness. Beal as a max player isn’t noteworthy at all. It’s everything going as it always has.

[tontoz]

Porter was very good when he was healthy but he had a chronic knee problem during his rookie deal which limited his minutes and kept him out of practice routinely. Signing to that deal would be fine if he stayed healthy but it was a gamble given his knee.

[Kblaze8855]

Max and supermax are two different things. A supermax deal is 35% of the cap. Beal has 3 All-Star games in 10 years and 1 All-NBA 3rd team. He just isn't a supermax player.

The supermax is for elite players, guys who are consistent All-NBA players and automatic All-Star selections. Beal isnt that.


Go look at the Supermax list.

What you think it is and what it really is are not the same.

And a lot more people would get it if their timing lined up right with the triggers that allow it.

Max players don’t have to negotiate. The team offers the most it can to lock them up. Might be more or less depending on factors. But…the most.

Beal is one of those players. Product of the cap limiting max pay. In a free market someone might pay a few of these guys 75. System we have? Caps it so a lot of people can get to the top.

Beal is on the usual level it takes to get that top deal whatever it is for you at the time.

[DMAVS41]

And in the end…non max Porters are all but like…4ish…of the 800 Porters. Non max Beals are virtually non existent once we had a cba to define such things. A max Porter is an obvious exception by ability even ignoring that he has been an absolute nothing since. Factoring it in he may be one of the worst investments in sports history. What he play the last 5 years? 100-150 games? I watched him be nothing on the Bulls part of that time. Real John Wall situation except Wall proved what he was before getting paid. He’s gotta be near the bottom all time in great basketball per dollar spent.

Seems a good young(somehow…still) guy and his rape of the league doesn’t bug me but it is what it is. It’s Matt Harpring for the cap hit of an all star. Good job by his people. But those guys getting that kinda bag will always stand out.

Porter types…Duncan Robinson types. They happen. And are noteworthy in their weirdness. Beal as a max player isn’t noteworthy at all. It’s everything going as it always has.

I'm not arguing Beal is similar to Porter...I'm saying the principle is the same.

You don't let a 23 year old former 3rd pick walk for nothing while hard capped because he's getting roughly 25 million too much over 4 years. It just doesn't make sense.

Also, what he has done since is not relevant...nobody has a crystal ball...including you...I will say, what is funny, is that he got hurt and the team fell apart because his injury and the Wall situation...and they were still able to move the contract for positive value (slight, but positive)

You have to look at the specifics of not only the players, but the teams...

End of the day...players like Beal...in his situation...are getting close to his max...and players like Porter...in his situation...are getting close to his max

[DMAVS41]

Porter was very good when he was healthy but he had a chronic knee problem during his rookie deal which limited his minutes and kept him out of practice routinely. Signing to that deal would be fine if he stayed healthy but it was a gamble given his knee.

Of course...but even with the injury...it did nothing to hurt the Wizards.

They traded him for Bobby Portis and a 2nd rounder....and his money never kept the Wizards from spending either.

[DMAVS41]

I would be ok with 35 million per year and that is assuming that this past year was an anomoly and that he will return to the level of the previous two years.

$50 million/yr is too much.

I would disagree about Riley paying him that much. He is playing hardball with Herro right now.

Ok, just to press you a little here.

Would you rather have Beal at 5 years 200 million...or he walks for nothing?

[Kblaze8855]

You wanna light 100 million on fire for a role player who didn’t matter on a team that didn’t matter go right ahead. Not my money. Just isn’t usually the plan for reasons I’d say are fairly clear. Every time an Otto Porter gets near max money it’s gonna stand out. Because it isn’t normal. Every time a Beal gets his max it’s expected. Because it’s normal.

[tontoz]

Ok, just to press you a little here.

Would you rather have Beal at 5 years 200 million...or he walks for nothing?


Walks for nothing wouldnt be likely. I would be looking for a SNT deal.

But if push came to shove i would rather let a guy walk than pay the supermax to a guy like Beal.

[DMAVS41]

You wanna light 100 million on fire for a role player who didn’t matter on a team that didn’t matter go right ahead. Not my money. Just isn’t usually the plan for reasons I’d say are fairly clear. Every time an Otto Porter gets near max money it’s gonna stand out. Because it isn’t normal. Every time a Beal gets his max it’s expected. Because it’s normal.

I don't think this is a consistent view at all.

Paying a 6-8 23 year old that shoots 43% from three and is a plus defender....is not lighting money on fire...the reality we live in...with him breaking down...they still moved him for positive value. Objectively...not in theory...it was not lighting money on fire...even with a derailing injury list.

But...if you feel that way...I'm not sure how you square 5 years 248 million for a 29 year old all-star that is likely to get worse, not better, that just missed half the season and had the worst year of his prime on a team that doesn't matter....and isn't exactly the type of player to fill the stands either.

[DMAVS41]

Walks for nothing wouldnt be likely. I would be looking for a SNT deal.

But if push came to shove i would rather let a guy walk than pay the supermax to a guy like Beal.

Fair enough.

Even though he's not "worth that" in the on court impact sense...I'd rather have the contract as I think it will be a positive value deal, barring injury, for a majority of the life of the contract.

We all know some team will be desperate in a year or 2 and will overpay for a guy like Beal...or at least it's a good bet there will be one.

[Kblaze8855]

If you think a max deal for a prime all star caliber 30ppg guy needs explaining more than giving a max deal to a guy who’s qualities you seem to believe are being 6’8”, his draft position, and having a good season from 3 Im happy to let you think it. But till the day you die every time a person in Porters position gets a max like deal it’s gonna come with raised eyebrows. How could it not? He made more last year than Giannis. It’s weird. It just is. But I have no need to talk about it further.

[tontoz]

Last year apparently there were 9 guys on supermax deals:

Curry
Dame
Giannis
Gobert
Embiid
Luka
Westbrook
Wall
Harden

Fittingly enough only one of those has career accomplishments as weak as Beal and that's Wall.

[DMAVS41]

If you think a max deal for a prime all star caliber 30ppg guy needs explaining more than giving a max deal to a guy who’s qualities you seem to believe are being 6’8”, his draft position, and having a good season from 3 Im happy to let you think it. But till the day you die every time a person in Porters position gets a max like deal it’s gonna come with raised eyebrows. How could it not? He made more last year than Giannis. It’s weird. It just is. But I have no need to talk about it further.

It all matters. His size matters. His potential matters. His draft position matters. Shooting 43% from 3 matters. Being a plus defender matters. Being 23 matters. To argue otherwise is just silly.

It should come with raised eye-brows...of course...I've said Porter was probably only worth 80% of what he got...not sure the point there...we all agree he was overpaid...at least I think...maybe there is someone out there that thinks differently. I was super high on Porter and even I thought he was worth about 20 a year only.

All of that applies to Beal...it should raise eye-brows that a player that hasn't won a playoff series as the best player on his team in his career...that has only made one all-nba team...is going to get a supermax deal.

None of that changes that he's going to get it...and some may not like it....is what it is...the specifics matter...Beal is going to get his...and Porter is going to get his...

Just like Jalen Brunson is going to get his...might look stupid 3 years from now...but guys age 25 or younger that have proven stuff with potential to improve...get overpaid...I can't believe that is news to anyone.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea great the Porter like exception that happens twice a generation and goes down in infamy every time is the same as the rule that applies to every player like Beal in history. Fine. Good day sir.

[DMAVS41]

Not my point at all. I did not say it is the same...I simply said the principle and specifics make it to where players in their circumstances are likely to get overpaid...is what it is.

Goes down in infamy? Most people don't even know about it and it didn't impact his team at all...which was explained to you at the time as well...it actually matters that the Wizards were over the cap and it was either let him walk for nothing or overpay him. Cool...lets just let our 3rd pick in the draft at age 23 that just shot lights out from 3 and is exactly what teams want in the modern era...lets let him walk for nothing over an extra what...like 7 million a year on a team that has no cap room even if you don't pay him?

But, oh yes...sign me up for paying the 29 year old that likely has seen his best ball...and hasn't won a playoff series as the best player in his career...lets give him the supermax and not even think about it.

Those two views are in contradiction when you actually factor in the specifics of the situations.

Both are no brainers in my view...but if pressed...the Beal contract comes with more risk imo.

[Kblaze8855]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RelievedHardArabianhorse-size_restricted.gif

[DMAVS41]

My bad...good day...sir.

[DMAVS41]

Last year apparently there were 9 guys on supermax deals:

Curry
Dame
Giannis
Gobert
Embiid
Luka
Westbrook
Wall
Harden

Fittingly enough only one of those has career accomplishments as weak as Beal and that's Wall.

I get it. I wouldn't feel great about it either, but I do think, of course barring injury, that the contract will have positive value for the duration...

[GOBB]

Tobias Harris is getting $35mil per (and it increases close for $40 at the end). You get Beal at that price you got a damn bargain. He’s better than Tobias. Tobias is a #3 option at best. Beal is a #2 to me. He’s a guy that you add next to Joel Embiid and talk championship contention. Same way people may have viewed Klay prior to injury next to Curry. Beal to me is that guy. He may not be that Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Curry. But he ain’t far behind in that all those players would LOVE Beal by their side to make that push for title contention.

I wanted the Sixers to get Beal but felt it would be nearly impossible. Young player currently in his prime. Who is giving that up unless he specifically demands I want to be in Philly I’m done here (with Wiz’s). Some of you are bugging. Kid is a flat out bucket while also possessing the ability to make plays.


Here’s something that people may not agree with and it’s due to the recent success he’s had. But what separates Jimmy Butler from Brad Beal? And make note I always felt sixers should’ve kept Butler but they picked Brett over him. No hindsight. He was the half court get ball in his hands guard in the 4th, in clutch moments when the focus is all on Embiid. But honestly what separates Butler from Beal? If you start and end with typing defense defense defense defense then I feel like my point is being proven. I’m sure hypothetically speaking if Butler was what Beal got? It’s more acceptive. Or maybe not. I just feel given the direction of these posts people would be more open to swallowing this money had it been given to Butler.

But as fun as butler is to watch. Beal is on the same level as him. He’s a great 2nd fiddle to your superstar player whom u deem only deserves this type of money. At least he is in my opinion which is why I have no issue giving him this kind of money. For Beal and the wizards to be title contenders? They either gonna have to get lucky with a young player they drafted or that big time player signs or gets traded to them. It’s not going to be a thing where “damnit we are screwed and our hands are tied up giving Beal this money now”. If he’s worth $35mil vs $50mil? That’s a $15mil difference over 4 years. Come on man that’s silly.

Maybe I value Brad Beal more than some of you. Would take him over Harden and not given what I saw from Harden. Just age, being in his prime. Just feel embiid window and his meshes well. I cringe at te talks of harden extension worth when we had him. If we had Beal and gave him this deal? Keep ball rolling.

[GOBB]

Last year apparently there were 9 guys on supermax deals:

Curry
Dame
Giannis
Gobert
Embiid
Luka
Westbrook
Wall
Harden

Fittingly enough only one of those has career accomplishments as weak as Beal and that's Wall.

Yes but he’s worth more than $35mil per. So while you can say his extension is an overpay. You can’t follow up with an underpay figure in the same breath. Lol

That’s what Jrue Holiday, Kris Middleton, Tobias Harris are getting. How do you want a 28 yr old in his prime next extension to be what they are getting paid per year? Da hell

[SaltyMeatballs]

Smart on him for securing the bag. That kind of money will have his great great grandkids set for life

[Overdrive]

The “I guess he’s all about the money. Doesn’t wanna win.” reactions are so weird for a guy on the team that drafted him. Aren’t they supposed to stay forever?

Many assume he wants to sign and then demand a trade this season with his money which would make some sense. The number of Stafford and Dame comparisons as a negative are funny though. The “Well don’t complain when you take the money and lose. Nobody feels bad.” talk.

What do we want?

Guys to stay forever on bad teams and do so at a discount?

I think it's hypocritical to demand guys stay on their team forever. It's nice when some do, but alot of star players couldn't win because their supporting casts lacked or didn't fit.

Contracts like Beal's future contract are stupid though. Let him walk if you're Washington. Give an other team the obligation to max him out. Neither Beal nor Washington will ever win with this kind of deal and the backlash for either will be shortlived.

Lebron got the backlash, because he was on the cusp of winning with shitty teams for years and decided to leave. Same for Durant. They were good enough to win as the main player and that along with the way and the destination they left to made it way worse than it objectively was.

[tontoz]

Yes but he’s worth more than $35mil per. So while you can say his extension is an overpay. You can’t follow up with an underpay figure in the same breath. Lol

That’s what Jrue Holiday, Kris Middleton, Tobias Harris are getting. How do you want a 28 yr old in his prime next extension to be what they are getting paid per year? Da hell


Middleton has just as many all star appearances as Beal. Better defender by far and a better 3 pt shooter. They are on the same tier

[bladefd]

Max and supermax are two different things. A supermax deal is 35% of the cap. Beal has 3 All-Star games in 10 years and 1 All-NBA 3rd team. He just isn't a supermax player.

The supermax is for elite players, guys who are consistent All-NBA players and automatic All-Star selections. Beal isnt that.

Supermax was created for players like Curry, KD, LeBron, Giannis, Luka, Embiid, Jokic, Kawhi.. The best of the best. Beal absolutely does not belong within that company, and Wizards will pay the consequence for it like Houston did with Harden/Westbrook with his teams.

[PP34Deuce]

Wizards are very family orientated with players they have. Owner and gm aren't focused on titles. They are focused in keeping butts in the seats.

Nba is entertainment and some basketball fans seem to forget not every team is obsessed with titles.

[GOBB]

Middleton has just as many all star appearances as Beal. Better defender by far and a better 3 pt shooter. They are on the same tier

Beal is better than Middleton. And you keep avoiding what was mentioned. You don’t want him getting $49-50mil per as that’s overpay. But $35mil per is fair to you and that’s an underpay. Logically just doesn’t make sense considering he’s better than guys who are making $35mil per now.

[GOBB]

Supermax was created for players like Curry, KD, LeBron, Giannis, Luka, Embiid, Jokic, Kawhi.. The best of the best. Beal absolutely does not belong within that company, and Wizards will pay the consequence for it like Houston did with Harden/Westbrook with his teams.

Super max wasn’t created for a specific crop of players tho. That’s what fans like you do. Is make up these parameters as if it exists in the NBA. You may need to read up on what a super max deal is and why it was implemented to begin with. It has nothing to do with “reserved for only a handful of players. Best of the best. Cream of the crop”.

[tontoz]

Beal is better than Middleton. And you keep avoiding what was mentioned. You don’t want him getting $49-50mil per as that’s overpay. But $35mil per is fair to you and that’s an underpay. Logically just doesn’t make sense considering he’s better than guys who are making $35mil per now.

Why is that? Because he scores more points playing on bad teams?

If Beal is so much better than Middleton why hasnt he played more All-Star games?

Ive watched Beal his whole career. He is not committed to winning games he is committed to his stats. When he was passed over for the All-Star game one year he would ignore the offense and jack up shots to pad stats and prove he should have been an All-Star.

On the Wizards board i follow there are fans that have been following the team for decades. None of them are ok with Beal getting the supermax. Not one.

[Kblaze8855]

The Magic fans polled didn’t think Shaq deserved the contract the Lakers offered either.

Fans don’t set the market. If they did there would be 5 max players at a time and even if you feel that should be the case it never will be. The max is nothing but a tool to show full commitment in an effort to leave no way to blame a team/gm for a star leaving. You offer the max to your star and they walk you don’t take shit from fans, agents, or other players considering you a loser franchise who won’t pay for talent.

Just how it is.

[tontoz]

The Magic fans polled didn’t think Shaq deserved the contract the Lakers offered either.

Fans don’t set the market. If they did there would be 5 max players at a time and even if you feel that should be the case it never will be. The max is nothing but a tool to show full commitment in an effort to leave no way to blame a team/gm for a star leaving. You offer the max to your star and they walk you don’t take shit from fans, agents, or other players considering you a loser franchise who won’t pay for talent.

Just how it is.


You keep saying the max as if it is one thing. That is not the case. There is a big difference between 25% of the cap and 35% of the cap.

Feel free to name the players in the league with a supermax deal and only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. I'll even start the list for you:

Wall
Beal

[NBAGOAT]

You keep saying the max as if it is one thing. That is not the case. There is a big difference between 25% of the cap and 35% of the cap.

Feel free to name the players in the league with a supermax deal and only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. I'll even start the list for you:

Wall
Beal

That is a comical but depressing list for Washington. Ofc I completely agree with you. Imo the 35% veteran max should only be for superstars/mvp lvl guys but in this market all nba guys will get it too. Beal is not even the 2nd however and yes you can just not give it to him. Hornets refused to give it to kemba who and it saved their franchise.

[GOBB]

Why is that? Because he scores more points playing on bad teams?

If Beal is so much better than Middleton why hasnt he played more All-Star games?

Ive watched Beal his whole career. He is not committed to winning games he is committed to his stats. When he was passed over for the All-Star game one year he would ignore the offense and jack up shots to pad stats and prove he should have been an All-Star.

On the Wizards board i follow there are fans that have been following the team for decades. None of them are ok with Beal getting the supermax. Not one.

Beal is a better scorer than Middleton ever was or will be. The bonfire bucket getter will always be valued more than the lunch pale 18-20ppg and solid defense guy.


Klay has 1 all nba team
Booker has 1 all nba team (eligible for super max now)
D.Mitchell has 0 all nba teams

Are you going to say Booker isn’t worth supermax as well? About $35mil per? Lol

[warriorfan]

I love how people citing other awful contracts think it’s a good argument on why you should throw your franchises future away to pay Beal 50 million a year.

Blind leading the blind.

[tontoz]

Beal is a better scorer than Middleton ever was or will be. The bonfire bucket getter will always be valued more than the lunch pale 18-20ppg and solid defense guy.


Klay has 1 all nba team
Booker has 1 all nba team (eligible for super max now)
D.Mitchell has 0 all nba teams

Are you going to say Booker isn’t worth supermax as well? About $35mil per? Lol


Booker is 25 and made the 1st team All-NBA. Beal is 29 and his only All-NBA team was 3rd team.

Booker was in the MVP conversation this year.

Booker averaged 22 ppg in his second season. Beal's career average is 22.

They aren't comparable.

The reason people act like Beal is an elite scorer is because of two stat padding seasons averaging 30 ppg on bad teams. He didn't average over 18 ppg until his 5th season and it wasn't for lack of opportunities.

[Kblaze8855]

I love how people citing other awful contracts think it’s a good argument on why you should throw your franchises future away to pay Beal 50 million a year.

Blind leading the blind.

If you don’t like what stars have often cost so be it. But we don’t need to be dramatic about it because the dollar figures have gone up due to the internet and inflation. Bradley Beal will make less of the cap than Jayson Williams got from the nets you just don’t care because you never knew. Guys you never even think about have made Supermax percentages your whole life but putting the word on it makes you think it’s a new development. I’m not blaming you for the record I’m blaming sports reporting. I didn’t notice myself till I looked into it a few years ago.

Theres a reason these teams aren’t that worried about it. They’ve been doing it for decades. And it means even less before a new cba when it’s gonna get even bigger. It’s just deciding if you want your homegrown stars or not. If you want everyone to go “Trust the process” ok. There’s an argument to make. But I doubt the nba wants that.

This deal is gonna be middle of the road soon and even with current numbers it’s in line with what a lot of players have made without us even noticing.

[warriorfan]

If you don’t like what stars have often cost so be it. But we don’t need to be dramatic about it because the dollar figures have gone up due to the internet and inflation. Bradley Beal will make less of the cap than Jayson Williams got from the nets you just don’t care because you never knew. Guys you never even think about have made Supermax percentages your whole life but putting the word on it makes you think it’s a new development. I’m not blaming you for the record I’m blaming sports reporting. I didn’t notice myself till I looked into it a few years ago.

Theres a reason these teams aren’t that worried about it. They’ve been doing it for decades. And it means even less before a new cba when it’s gonna get even bigger. It’s just deciding if you want your homegrown stars or not. If you want everyone to go “Trust the process” ok. There’s an argument to make. But I doubt the nba wants that.

This deal is gonna be middle of the road soon and even with current numbers it’s in line with what a lot of players have made without us even noticing.

You just don’t get it. You keep citing previous bad decisions as justification for another one. Lol.

No team is going anywhere with Bradly Beal making 50 million. Especially the Wizards.

It’s a shit contract. There’s no two ways around it.

[Kblaze8855]

So Beal in place of Klay and Wiseman who didn’t even play makes the Warriors what? A play in tram? In place of Middleton and a backup center makes the Bucks what? You trade him for Westbrook the lakers big 3 is utterly hopeless? Trading him for Tobias and Melton makes Philly hopeless?

You repeating it a dozen times won’t make his potential salary that out of line with a lot of people and packages he’s similar to. It’s nothing but sticker shock ignoring the rest of the league. He’d fit at his potential salary on plenty of teams that would contend.

Good, bad, and average arent dollar amounts it’s just relative to the league. In a league that’s gonna pay 36 year old Butler 50 million and Siakam 39 million 47-50 for Beal isn’t that weird. It’s a borderline all star plus a nobody.

Cade is gonna make 78 million in a season one day if he pans out and we will still have people going “You can’t win like that!” as if the dollar amount matters the same when the cap will be 156 million.

Beal costs like….Andre Drummond and a good 6th man. How many of these giant contracts have to exist before you accept “bad” isn’t what it used to be? A star costs a not quite star and a role player just like it always have. It just sucks a not quite star is 30 million these days and a role player is 15-20. James Johnson and Steven Adams cost 47 million dollars. Why wouldn’t Bradley Beal?

[999Guy]

Beal is better than Middleton. And you keep avoiding what was mentioned. You don’t want him getting $49-50mil per as that’s overpay. But $35mil per is fair to you and that’s an underpay. Logically just doesn’t make sense considering he’s better than guys who are making $35mil per now.
Better when? Beal was a decent starter last year. No more.

[tontoz]

You keep saying the max as if it is one thing. That is not the case. There is a big difference between 25% of the cap and 35% of the cap.

Feel free to name the players in the league with a supermax deal and only 1 All-NBA 3rd team. I'll even start the list for you:

Wall
Beal


Funny how this list is so short.

Citing guys who play secondary roles to MVPs isn't comparable to Beal. An MVP making the supermax is underpaid, making it easier to overpay for lesser players.

[Kblaze8855]

It would also help if people understand how the contracts adjust with eligibility. Kat and Booker just became Supermax eligible due to the all nba teams and Trae had 35 million added to his automatically for what I think is the Derrick Rose rule that gives him a bigger max off his rookie deal for certain things. He went from 177 to 200+.

The nba wants it like this and the players don’t. Tatum was complaining about how media determines peoples money more than they should. There isnt one “max” it depends on a lot of factors. Accolades, draft position(round), and years of service. You can have the accolades and not the years. The years and not the accolades.

When I say “Max” I just mean whatever your max is because it isn’t across the board.

I wonder what the Timberwolves do. KAT will probably get it right? Would it be a good look to Edwards if they lowball him? Assuming they even like each other. Teams like Minnesota kinda have to pay up right?

[Kblaze8855]

Funny how this list is so short.

Citing guys who play secondary roles to MVPs isn't comparable to Beal. An MVP making the supermax is underpaid, making it easier to overpay for lesser players.


That’s exactly what I explained after your post. I say “max” because it changes with each player. Beals max isn’t Jalen Brunsons. We use the same word because it means a team offered the most it could. It’s just simpler. There is no single max contract.

[warriorfan]

So Beal in place of Klay and Wiseman who didn’t even play makes the Warriors what? A play in tram? In place of Middleton and a backup center makes the Bucks what? You trade him for Westbrook the lakers big 3 is utterly hopeless? Trading him for Tobias and Melton makes Philly hopeless?

You repeating it a dozen times won’t make his potential salary that out of line with a lot of people and packages he’s similar to. It’s nothing but sticker shock ignoring the rest of the league. He’d fit at his potential salary on plenty of teams that would contend.

Good, bad, and average arent dollar amounts it’s just relative to the league. In a league that’s gonna pay 36 year old Butler 50 million and Siakam 39 million 47-50 for Beal isn’t that weird. It’s a borderline all star plus a nobody.

Cade is gonna make 78 million in a season one day if he pans out and we will still have people going “You can’t win like that!” as if the dollar amount matters the same when the cap will be 156 million.

Beal costs like….Andre Drummond and a good 6th man. How many of these giant contracts have to exist before you accept “bad” isn’t what it used to be? A star costs a not quite star and a role player just like it always have. It just sucks a not quite star is 30 million these days and a role player is 15-20. James Johnson and Steven Adams cost 47 million dollars. Why wouldn’t Bradley Beal?

You keep using the one example of beal was on the warriors lol.

Warriors aren’t your average team my dude.

Bradly Beal on 50 million will sink pretty much every team in the league. The best argument you can try to make is “it won’t be terrible” while citing other awful contracts that have destroyed every franchise that was a part of it.

If you are a GM and sign him to that you are a dipshit. End of story.

[tontoz]

That’s exactly what I explained after your post. I say “max” because it changes with each player. Beals max isn’t Jalen Brunsons. We use the same word because it means a team offered the most it could. It’s just simpler. There is no single max contract.


In beals case we are talking supermax so let's call it what it is. Comparing it to non-supermax deals isn't apples to apples.

1 All NBA 3rd team is the minimum requirement to get offered the supermax. The vast majority of guys that have signed supermax deals far exceed that requirement.

The Hornets could have given kemba the supermax. They chose a cheaper in rozier. Smart move.

[Kblaze8855]

You keep using the one example of beal was on the warriors lol.

Warriors aren’t your average team my dude.

Bradly Beal on 50 million will sink pretty much every team in the league. The best argument you can try to make is “it won’t be terrible” while citing other awful contracts that have destroyed every franchise that was a part of it.

If you are a GM and sign him to that you are a dipshit. End of story.


Actually I used 3-4. Several obvious contenders. The warriors obviously being most relevant considering they could easily take his deal and won the title 2 weeks ago. Kinda hurts the “Can’t contend like that” argument.

[FilmyCogTurner]

You guys keep mentioning comparable players to Beal but forget to mention that those players are all on CONTENDERS which is why I am in the let Beal walk camp.

If signing him meant the Wizards would at least be a semi-competitive team (Raptors level) that could secure a 5-6th seed than fine, do the deal. I agree with the poster above who said some NBA teams serve as entertainment before title contention which is true however there is a variance to that equation. Sure, only one team can win the title but we are kidding ourselves if we think anything less than semi-competitive for an NBA franchise is acceptable. The 7-10 range is worse than being in the bottom 5.

You're either rebuilding or competing and to fall into that middle ground is a fail.

[Kblaze8855]

In beals case we are talking supermax so let's call it what it is. Comparing it to non-supermax deals isn't apples to apples.

1 All NBA 3rd team is the minimum requirement to get offered the supermax. The vast majority of guys that have signed supermax deals far exceed that requirement.

The Hornets could have given kemba the supermax. They chose a cheaper in rozier. Smart move.


It’s a max deal with the same reported numbers either way. I don’t feel a need to write “Derrick rose rule rookie max” on Trae to differentiate it from a normal rookie max extension. Max deals vary by player. It means the most a team can offer. That’s all it is. I’d agree if I said it one way without the numbers. Once the numbers are there it’s just wording.

[tontoz]

It’s a max deal with the same reported numbers either way. I don’t feel a need to write “Derrick rose rule rookie max” on Trae to differentiate it from a normal rookie max extension. Max deals vary by player. It means the most a team can offer. That’s all it is. I’d agree if I said it one way without the numbers. Once the numbers are there it’s just wording.

The rookie max discussion is completely different from the supermax discussion. If a high draft pick does well on his rookie deal there is a very good chance he will get offered the rookie max for several reasons:

-it is only 25% of the cap
-there is a good chance he will continue to improve since he is still young
-he will still be in his physical prime when the contract is up, assuming there are no catastrophic injuries.

The veteran supermax discussion is an entirely different scenario. The player older, less likely to improve and more likely to decline during the length of the contract. And it's 35% of the cap.

[Kblaze8855]

Im talking about wording. I don’t feel a need to specify again and again when I already posted the expected numbers. If I thought you didn’t know the numbers I’d specify.

[tontoz]

Im talking about wording. I don’t feel a need to specify again and again when I already posted the expected numbers. If I thought you didn’t know the numbers I’d specify.


So why don't you specify all the other guys who have only 1 All-NBA 3rd team that have signed supermax deals? If it is so common you should be able to find plenty.

[Kblaze8855]

There aren’t “plenty” who signed them to begin with yet because of the requirements. All 9 aren’t “plenty”. I can give you plenty who made the same relative money but you don’t care because of the creation of the term “Supermax” which means exactly nothing but the percentages you are likely willing to ignore when I give you the “plenty”.

If you don’t like the league agreed standards of eligibility that’s a whole other discussion. They take away the years minimum and alter some other things you’d have a different list but like k said…not my rules.

[tontoz]

There aren’t “plenty” who signed them to begin with yet because of the requirements. All 9 aren’t “plenty”. I can give you plenty who made the same relative money but you don’t care because of the creation of the term “Supermax” which means exactly nothing but the percentages you are likely willing to ignore when I give you the “plenty”.

If you don’t like the league agreed standards of eligibility that’s a whole other discussion. They take away the years minimum and alter some other things you’d have a different list but like k said…not my rules.


The supermax deal has been in place since 2011. Your whole narrative is how common it is for teams to sign guys to the max. So, show your work. You have over a decade of deals to choose from to find guys similar to Beal getting the supermax.

I already posted an example of a team who declined to sign a guy to the supermax, choosing to trade him for a cheaper option.

[Kblaze8855]

The eligibility limiting who can sign a deal is not something I need to account for. Players sign their max. Different players having different maximums. If Tatum could sign Beals max the Celtics would. Which is why he was bitching. The rules not the players determine your max. They’re max players. The max changes not the player. Sometimes after the contract is agreed to like Trae. These contracts are not set. You get your max….not “the” max. Stars tend to get their max. Whatever the league allows at the moment.

[tontoz]

The eligibility limiting who can sign a deal is not something I need to account for. Players sign their max. Different players having different maximums. If Tatum could sign Beals max the Celtics would. Which is why he was bitching. The rules not the players determine your max. They’re max players. The max changes not the player. Sometimes after the contract is agreed to like Trae. These contracts are not set. You get your max….not “the” max. Stars tend to get their max. Whatever the league allows at the moment.

That is why your argument is nonsense. You are treating every max deal as being comparable.

A guy coming off his rookie deal isn't comparable to Beal's situation now.

[DMAVS41]

The eligibility limiting who can sign a deal is not something I need to account for. Players sign their max. Different players having different maximums. If Tatum could sign Beals max the Celtics would. Which is why he was bitching. The rules not the players determine your max. They’re max players. The max changes not the player. Sometimes after the contract is agreed to like Trae. These contracts are not set. You get your max….not “the” max. Stars tend to get their max. Whatever the league allows at the moment.

This is definitely true, but you can’t say they are all the same. They are not the same… a 23 year old getting his max is different than a 29 year old getting his… not even mentioning individual / team circumstances.

However, the same arguments you used yesterday apply here. Wizards likely don’t matter as a team with him and you are lighting 250 million on fire to fight for the 8th seed… which actually hurts the franchise because they can’t bottom out.

All for a player who hasn’t proven much as a leader of a franchise and almost for sure is past his peak. You are paying a qtr billion for past performance and the chance at some playoff games.

I’d do it for the reasons I stated yesterday, but… as I’ve tried to point out to everyone… the specifics actually matter.

[Kblaze8855]

I told you about the rookie deal when we were talking about how we describe them. Multiple kinds of max but we call all them a max deal for simplicity.

if I say Tatum signed a max deal it’s true even if he had made an all NBA team after that before it kicked in which would have changed the terms to what we call a super max. He still signed the same contract. His eligibility for additional raises changes. You’re complaining about Beals particular eligibility. I’m telling you whatever his max is…is what players like him tend to get. That’s what being a max player is. It’s why deals say “Up to” so often. They aren’t set. Tatums is like 32 million shy of its potential. He signed a potential “Supermax” he just can’t get it now. Take it up with the league and the players association.

[warriorfan]

Beal isn’t worth 250 million dollars. Unless you are a dumbass GM.

That’s about all that needs to be said.

[DMAVS41]

Beal isn’t worth 250 million dollars. Unless you are a dumbass GM.

That’s about all that needs to be said.

The circumstances matter.

Just imagine Beal was on the Mavs in place of Brunson and it’s this supermax or he walks.

Are you actually arguing the Mavs should just let him walk in that scenario?

[Kblaze8855]

Beal isn’t worth 250 million dollars. Unless you are a dumbass GM.

That’s about all that needs to be said.

No. That’s all you can say because you realize your other arguments are founded in a misunderstanding. 45-50 million is a good player and a role player these days and it can be easily fit on most teams good or bad. It just ****s with your head to say it out loud.

You could make 45 million in space with two guys without even using starters and probably do it 40 different ways. You just haven’t adjusted yet. It happened fast. Like…really fast. There are 40-50 million dollar combos that are total garbage compared to Beal.

[warriorfan]

No. That’s all you can say because you realize your other arguments are founded in a misunderstanding. 45-50 million is a good player and a role players these days and it can be easily fit on most teams good or bad. It just ****s with your head to say it out loud.

Na. :oldlol:

[tontoz]

I told you about the rookie deal when we were talking about how we describe them. Multiple kinds of max but we call all them a max deal for simplicity.

if I say Tatum signed a max deal it’s true even if he had made an all NBA team after that before it kicked in which would have changed the terms to what we call a super max. He still signed the same contract. His eligibility for additional raises changes. You’re complaining about Beals particular eligibility. I’m telling you whatever his max is…is what players like him tend to get. That’s what being a max player is. It’s why deals say “Up to” so often. They aren’t set. Tatums is like 32 million shy of its potential. He signed a potential “Supermax” he just can’t get it now. Take it up with the league and the players association.


More nonsense. To put this in context lets compare Beal to......himself.

In his 4th season he averaged 17.4 ppg with mediocre efficiency. He hadn't sniffed an All-Star game. He wasn't a star by any criteria. However he improved, as young guys frequently do, after signing a new deal.

At age 29 it is pretty unlikely Beal will improve during the course of this contract. It is much more likely that his play will decline during the course of this contract. Therefore the Wizards will be paying a higher price for a guy who is unlikely to improve and is likely to decline before his contract is up.

So comparing Beal to a guy coming off his rookie deal makes no sense.

[DMAVS41]

More nonsense. To put this in context lets compare Beal to......himself.

In his 4th season he averaged 17.4 ppg with mediocre efficiency. He hadn't sniffed an All-Star game. He wasn't a star by any criteria. However he improved, as young guys frequently do, after signing a new deal.

At age 29 it is pretty unlikely Beal will improve during the course of this contract. It is much more likely that his play will decline during the course of this contract. Therefore the Wizards will be paying a higher price for a guy who is unlikely to improve and is likely to decline before his contract is up.

So comparing Beal to a guy coming off his rookie deal makes no sense.

You know where I stand on this, I’d do it, but this is a good point I’ve tried to articulate.

Specifics matter… you can’t talk in broad generalities when it comes to a situation like this with Beal and Wizards.

Wizards letting him walk would be reasonable… I just would rather have him for a trade down the road and or a chance at lucking into a contender somehow.

But nothing wrong with letting him go and tanking. Could trade KP as well.

[Kblaze8855]

Nobody Is comparing Beal to Tatum. I’m talking to you about contract structure and eligibility. His status five years ago has nothing to do with anything. You seem determined to talk about an issue that has absolutely no bearing on what his current max is. Feel free to continue but it has nothing to do with me. I don’t set eligibility rules. I’m telling you why I say “max” and don’t feel a need to describe the 4(off the top of my head) degrees of max deal with particular names all the time when the numbers have been established. Rookie scale max, the rookie scale Derrick rose exception or whatever max, vet max, vet Supermax and probably more don’t all justify saying every time to me. I posted the number. What we call it from there doesn’t matter.

[tontoz]

Nobody Is comparing Beal to Tatum. I’m talking to you about contract structure and eligibility. His status five years ago has nothing to do with anything. You seem determined to talk about an issue that has absolutely no bearing on what his current max is. Feel free to continue but it has nothing to do with me. I don’t set eligibility rules. I’m telling you why I say “max” and don’t feel a need to describe the 4(off the top of my head) degrees of max deal with particular names all the time when the numbers have been established. Rookie scale max, the rookie scale Derrick rose exception or whatever max, vet max, vet Supermax and probably more don’t all justify saying every time to me. I posted the number. What we call it from there doesn’t matter.



It does matter when you act like it is common for guys like Beal to get the "max". So lets see your examples of veterans comparable to Beal getting 35% of the cap.

Klay, playing on championship team next two 2 time MVP Steph on a team with a limitless budget, isn't very relevant to Beal on the Wizards.

The Kemba situation was very comparable.

[PP34Deuce]

I think the problem people have is if you take the star and roleplayer situation, a guy making $40M+ has to be shoring up multiple plugs.

SF's like Kawhi, Durant, Lebron solve most problems on the court.

Beal is not Curry where he's next level shooting. He's not a freak athlete. He's a really solid all star level guard that can create iso. Still need your starting guard to be a 3 point threat.

the contract is OK IF Hachimara turns into a great 3 and D player and Kuzma, KCP, maintain being good rotation pieces. Also, if Johnny Davis becomes a rich mans KCP.

Johnny Davis I'm guessing will make KCP expendendable in a year.

[Kblaze8855]

Na. :oldlol:

Oh I don’t need you to say it. I know you realize it and just don’t like it. I don’t like it either but in the famed sentiments of prison rapist fleece Johnson you ain’t gotta like it you just Gotta take it. These deals are wild. Every time you think some insane 45 million dollar contract makes someone an albatross you see like 68 potential trades that work and they get moved easily and you’re like “Oh….that’s not that hard anymore”. Anyway to make this less contentious let me post something I think we all agree on….





Designated Veteran ExtensionPlayer has 7 or 8 years of experience and has 1 or 2 years remaining on their current contract (all with with the same team or was traded during first four years in the NBA) and meets the criteria below is eligible for a maximum salary that starts at 35% of the cap with a maximum of six (6) years (which includes the remaining years on the current contract).

Who applies for this increase:
(A) Players finishing their rookie scale contract and other players having been credited with four (4) years of service can receive a starting salary up to 30% of the cap.
(B) Players finishing their rookie scale extension or other players having seven to nine (7-9) years of experience can receive a starting salary up to 35% of the cap.

At least one of the following must apply:
(A) Player was named to All-NBA First, Second or Third team in most reason season or both of the two seasons prior to the most recent season.
Based on 2021 offseason, player was named to any All-NBA team in 2020-21 OR was named to any All-NBA team in 2018-19 AND 2019-20.
(B) Player was named the Defensive Player of the Year (DPOY) in most reason reason or both of the two season prior to the most recent season.
Based on 2021 offseason, player was named to DPOY in 2020-21 OR was named as DPOY in 2018-19 AND 2019-20.
(C) Player was named Most Valuable Player (MVP) in any of the three most recent seasons.
Based on 2021 offseason, player was named as MVP in 2018-19, 2019-20 or 2020-21.



When they make the eligibility for one of these deals Beals is about to sign tied to both accolades and time in the league they’re almost guaranteeing the last few years of it will be ugly aren’t they? Beal is about as young as you can be with eight or nine years in the league. They actually set the system so the highest paid players in the league will be in their 14th season or worse.

They should rethink it but I’m not sure how to structure it.

[tontoz]

Oh I don’t need you to say it. I know you realize it and just don’t like it. I don’t like it either but in the famed sentiments of prison rapist fleece Johnson you ain’t gotta like it you just Gotta take it. These deals are wild. Every time you think some insane 45 million dollar contract makes someone an albatross you see like 68 potential trades that work and they get moved easily and you’re like “Oh….that’s not that hard anymore”. Anyway to make this less contentious let me post something I think we all agree on….








When they make the eligibility for one of these deals Beals is about to sign tied to both accolades and time in the league they’re almost guaranteeing the last few years of it will be ugly aren’t they? Beal is about as young as you can be with eight or nine years in the league. They actually set the system so the highest paid players in the league will be in their 14th season or worse.

They should rethink it but I’m not sure how to structure it.



Just because a player is eliigible for a given deal doesn't mean you have to sign them to it. That is the point. Nobody has a gun to the Wizards' heads.

I have no problem paying 35% of the cap for someone who is a MVP caliber player.

[Kblaze8855]

Of course they don’t have to. No team has to do anything. Unless you’re currently on the cusp of a ring you can justify tanking at any time. Just don’t complain when players and agents don’t see you as a serious option and you have to overpay to get someone to settle for you when your rep is shit.

Which to be clear is not a matter of one contract offer. But expect a lot of snarky remarks from players if they let him walk. Since the draft is the best way to win anyway(artificially low priced players) it may not matter. Gotta rebuild eventually anyway.

[warriorfan]

Let’s give an aging Bradly Beal 50 million dollars a year so players don’t think we are a cheap skate.


Big brained shit right there.

[tontoz]

Of course they don’t have to. No team has to do anything. Unless you’re currently on the cusp of a ring you can justify tanking at any time. Just don’t complain when players and agents don’t see you as a serious option and you have to overpay to get someone to settle for you when your rep is shit.

Which to be clear is not a matter of one contract offer. But expect a lot of snarky remarks from players if they let him walk. Since the draft is the best way to win anyway(artificially low priced players) it may not matter. Gotta rebuild eventually anyway.


They won't let him walk. They have never had a spine before they aren't going to suddenly grow one now. I could fill up this thread with examples of the Wizards wimping out in negotiations. Not just good players but bench fodder too.

I remember them giving a 2 year guaranteed deal to a scrub named Eric Maynor literally on the first day of free agency. They could pick up a guy like that on a 10 day at any point during the season but they just had to give him 2 years. He was out of the league after year 1. :facepalm

They would have definitely maxed Kyrie rather than playing hardball and forcing him to opt in.

[Kblaze8855]

I like the Polish hammer personally.

[DMAVS41]

Let’s give an aging Bradly Beal 50 million dollars a year so players don’t think we are a cheap skate.


Big brained shit right there.

I ask again...

Beal in place of Brunson...Mavs should just let him walk?

[warriorfan]

Not paying an almost 30 year old Bradly Beal 50 million

[Kblaze8855]

Not paying an almost 30 year old Bradly Beal 50 million

When hes making 50 the cap will be about 171-175 with the numbers talked about now making it the cap hit of the 36th highest paid player in 2005. He will be making less of the cap than Tim Thomas and you’ll still be disgusted by the dollar amount. 50 million by 2025 will be the same as Carlos Boozer money. I can’t imagine what it looks like if they don’t expand. They’ll almost have to. It’s roughly the same number of players but the cap will have tripled from 2014 even if projections are off. And it goes up from there….and doesn’t factor in the nba shooting for 1% of all legal gambling done on the league.

Youll be begging 3 time all stars to take a quarter billion soon. They’re trying to get the players to accept cap smoothing to avoid all hell breaking loose like when the warriors suddenly had cap space to get KD but who knows what they have to give up to get it. The next generation gonna have Mike Conley mad about how much they get paid.

Get ready to talk about who you’d never pay 76 million then watch them get it. You might have to retire from fanhood when Steph goes.

The kids he influenced gonna make 400 million on an extension unless they expand to Europe and bring back Seattle and Vancouver.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Beal is injury prone too. He's the A.Davis of shooting guards... but not nearly as good

Wouldn't pay him

[warriorfan]

When hes making 50 the cap will be about 171-175 with the numbers talked about now making it the cap hit of the 36th highest paid player in 2005. He will be making less of the cap than Tim Thomas and you’ll still be disgusted by the dollar amount. 50 million by 2025 will be the same as Carlos Boozer money. I can’t imagine what it looks like if they don’t expand. They’ll almost have to. It’s roughly the same number of players but the cap will have tripled from 2014 even if projections are off. And it goes up from there….and doesn’t factor in a he nba shooting for 1% of all legal gambling done on the league.

Youll be begging 3 time all stars to take a quarter billion soon. They’re trying to get the players to accept cap smoothing to avoid all hell breaking loose but who knows what they have to give up to get it. The next generation gonna have Mike Conley mad about how much they get paid.

Giving examples of other shit contracts that didnt help their teams at all isn’t a good argument.

Just because other people made a stupid decision isn’t a reason for you to do it too.

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t care if you think it’s stupid. I only care that you realize it’s about to be all contracts for good players(and isn’t far from what they often have been) and that you need to adjust your expectations accordingly for your sake.

[tontoz]

When hes making 50 the cap will be about 171-175 with the numbers talked about now making it the cap hit of the 36th highest paid player in 2005. He will be making less of the cap than Tim Thomas and you’ll still be disgusted by the dollar amount. 50 million by 2025 will be the same as Carlos Boozer money. I can’t imagine what it looks like if they don’t expand. They’ll almost have to. It’s roughly the same number of players but the cap will have tripled from 2014 even if projections are off. And it goes up from there….and doesn’t factor in the nba shooting for 1% of all legal gambling done on the league.

Youll be begging 3 time all stars to take a quarter billion soon. They’re trying to get the players to accept cap smoothing to avoid all hell breaking loose like when the warriors suddenly had cap space to get KD but who knows what they have to give up to get it. The next generation gonna have Mike Conley mad about how much they get paid.

Get ready to talk about who you’d never pay 76 million then watch them get it. You might have to retire from fanhood when Steph goes.

The kids he influenced gonna make 400 million on an extension unless they expand to Europe and bring back Seattle and Vancouver.



I take it you are assuming that the next TV deal is going to be a big pop in revenue. I am not sure what to think with TV ratings in general going down pretty much across the board.

The current TV deal is in place for the next 3 years and Beals contract will be bad for those 3 years for sure. After that is just a guess but it is doubtful Beal will be All-NBA caliber 4-5 years from now since he is barely that now.

[Kblaze8855]

Just reading reports and listening to people who have actually done the job before. The previous president of espn who did the last deal owns a podcast network he often appears on to talk sports business and thinks the end game is apple and Amazon carving up all sports broadcast rights to bring people to their platforms long term and absorbing any network that doesn’t play along. Apple straight up buying espn to bundle it with Apple TV is something serious people in the know have heard is an option. They’re already buying baseball rights.

Tv ratings don’t decide these things. There is a massive market for any live sports in the streaming world. It’s the load bearing beam of paid tv. And if you put it on Apple TV people will pay that 5.99 happily or maybe more.

Its apple, Amazon, Fox, Disney, Turner, and even nbc fighting to keep or get live sports for their long term evil plans.

Thats why they are talking 75 billion when the last one was 25 and that changed us to the world we have now with Conley being the first signal of a new era. If it’s even 50 all the numbers will be shockingly different. I think it’s the whole reason we hear new expansion talks. They don’t wanna pay the same players and markets all the extra money.

Might as well grow the game.

[Kblaze8855]

For the record I’m not rooting for all the massive deals they just feel unavoidable. I’d say add a European division with London, Barcelona/Madrid, Paris, and somewhere in east Europe along with Seattle and Vegas.

Shorten the season a bit. Do the stupid inevitable in season tournament in Europe and America in alternating years. Formalize ties with the euro league and even local soccer teams where possible. Consider Vancouver. Make rosters 17 players. Spread the money out and we won’t have to worry about 220 million dollar role players.

[paksat]

you only give that money to someone who is going to flat out dominate, especially in crunch time.

2009 dwyane wade deserves that money, a couple others of course.

beal? uwotm8

[tontoz]

I was wondering about the revenue streams other than TV. I also wonder about how much the TV networks get from international markets. I don't care enough to really do any DD on it.

I do think they should shorten the season a bit. Players have to run a lot more on D now with so many guys shooting 3s.

[GOBB]

Is Jimmy butler on a decline? Asking for a friend because by time Beal super max deal is done he would be Butler age today. lol

[tontoz]

Is Jimmy butler on a decline? Asking for a friend because by time Beal super max deal is done he would be Butler age today. lol


We know Butler is a workaholic who will do anything to win. Beal, not so much.

Ironically enough a mod on a wizards board just said:


Letting Beal walk for nothing (and leaving us with $35M in cap room) is better than paying Beal a max.

Beal on a max contract will have negative value. He'll essentially be the Tobias Harris of the last two seasons.

[Kblaze8855]

I was wondering about the revenue streams other than TV. I also wonder about how much the TV networks get from international markets. I don't care enough to really do any DD on it.

I do think they should shorten the season a bit. Players have to run a lot more on D now with so many guys shooting 3s.


Really I just hear the talks because of the podcast and it led me to check on the happenings. When it’s the president of espn, a former nba exec, the vp of the players union and a former president and stepson son of a major league owner talking business it’s hard to find a more inside knowledge credible discussion. The owners care about 2 things. The revenue split and growing team value making sure every sale sets some kinda record and lifts all boats.

Players in negotiations always ask for shit owners honestly don’t give a shit about. Per diem, off days, and chefs. All star weekend length. Owners drag their feet and complain about it only to give players the perception of a win when they eventually cave but have to give the owners something in return. They used to hire player friendly guys who demanded all these comforts to make players happy and they got them ALL only to realize there’s nothing left to get but more money. Now they hire only pitbull fighter lawyers with one goal:


Players are like

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2206290446080340.jpeg





and owners know it. And there is SO much coming in now neither side wants to ruin it with a lockout.

So just about all that’s left is determining how much money they can keep off the cap right away. But they still owe the players the money. They keep winning and finally have it where they like it and everyone just wants to keep it going now. I don’t think either side messes it up this run and everyone gets crazy money and every team is worth 3-5 billion

I don’t know how you keep deals from exploding. The players know it’s coming too. I don’t know how much owners really mind and how much will be for show.

[GOBB]

We know Butler is a workaholic who will do anything to win. Beal, not so much.

Ironically enough a mod on a wizards board just said:

Curious how is leaving Wiz with &35mil in cap room better given no top toer free agents would sign there. So you’re essentially going to overpay someone or players. Or play the lottery and hope for a marquee franchise talent. That’s worthy of a supermax in due time lol

Maybe the wizards fan base rather Trust the Process Hinkie style over paying Beal the supermax. If so then cool. If not then I don’t know. You’d have a better chance to lure a stud talent with Beal than without.

[GOBB]

you only give that money to someone who is going to flat out dominate, especially in crunch time.

2009 dwyane wade deserves that money, a couple others of course.

beal? uwotm8

The supermax was not designed for a handful of players. A prestigious club of talent. It was essentially put in place so teams like the Wizards had a chance to keep a stud talent Vs watching them walk. You guys kill me going back to 2009 on who deserves a supermax. You fans are delusional and out of touch with reality. If fans actually went around placing value on what players were really worth? It would look like a sweat shop.

[tontoz]

Curious how is leaving Wiz with &35mil in cap room better given no top toer free agents would sign there. So you’re essentially going to overpay someone or players. Or play the lottery and hope for a marquee franchise talent. That’s worthy of a supermax in due time lol

Maybe the wizards fan base rather Trust the Process Hinkie style over paying Beal the supermax. If so then cool. If not then I don’t know. You’d have a better chance to lure a stud talent with Beal than without.
.
Wizards haven't had a 50 win season since the 70s. Part of the problem has been bad contracts. Fans have good reason to be skeptical of management.

DC is not a small market. They haven't been a free agent destination because of poor management. This isn't Milwaukee or OKC.

[paksat]

The supermax was not designed for a handful of players. A prestigious club of talent. It was essentially put in place so teams like the Wizards had a chance to keep a stud talent Vs watching them walk. You guys kill me going back to 2009 on who deserves a supermax. You fans are delusional and out of touch with reality. If fans actually went around placing value on what players were really worth? It would look like a sweat shop.

it's still a terrible idea

what are the wizards hoping to accomplish with this? That a guy that won't even make 4th or 5th or 6th all time nba lists gets to stay and lose more than he wins?

[GOBB]

.
Wizards haven't had a 50 win season since the 70s. Part of the problem has been bad contracts. Fans have good reason to be skeptical of management.

DC is not a small market. They haven't been a free agent destination because of poor management. This isn't Milwaukee or OKC.

Dc isn’t milw or OKC. But they are no different than Philly. There’s only a few places where top tier free agents will sign. DC ain’t one of them. And the only way a top tier free agent or talent will go to DC is if someone is already there that intrigues them on some way. Otherwise you’re really dependent on getting lucky in the draft and/or trade.

[tontoz]

Dc isn’t milw or OKC. But they are no different than Philly. There’s only a few places where top tier free agents will sign. DC ain’t one of them. And the only way a top tier free agent or talent will go to DC is if someone is already there that intrigues them on some way. Otherwise you’re really dependent on getting lucky in the draft and/or trade.


DC is the nation's capital and has a lot of attractions in addition to a big market. Arenas came here as a free agent. He could have left as a Ufa just like Wall and Beal could have left. They chose to stay in spite of poor management.

Guys want to get paid. We haven't had much cap space since.....I can't remember when. We haven't even had the opportunity to sign big name free agents. We could potentially have huge cap space next summer.

[warriorfan]

Dc isn’t milw or OKC. But they are no different than Philly. There’s only a few places where top tier free agents will sign. DC ain’t one of them. And the only way a top tier free agent or talent will go to DC is if someone is already there that intrigues them on some way. Otherwise you’re really dependent on getting lucky in the draft and/or trade.

If you build it. They will come.

[tontoz]

Thinking back over the last decade i think the only time we were turned down by a high profile free agent was Horford back in 2016. He chose Boston who obviously had a better roster.

Our illustrious GM couldn't stand having cap space available, its like it was burning a hole in his pocket, so he immediately threw a big money deal to.....



wait for it.....







Ian Mahinmi :facepalm

[GOBB]

DC is the nation's capital and has a lot of attractions in addition to a big market. Arenas came here as a free agent. He could have left as a Ufa just like Wall and Beal could have left. They chose to stay in spite of poor management.

Guys want to get paid. We haven't had much cap space since.....I can't remember when. We haven't even had the opportunity to sign big name free agents. We could potentially have huge cap space next summer.

DC does as does Philly. And yet our free agent signings have been overpaying Al Horford, Tobias Harris, Elton Brand off the top of my head. The last 20 years what big time free agents signings have the Wizards had? Gilbert wasn’t a tier 1 kind of free agent. So I’m not inpyong no one wants to sign there. My point is the top tier, top talent tend to have the same “wish lists” when it comes to free agency. If their team isn’t keeping them via resign or haven’t traded them to a team they forced themselves too? It’s the usual suspects as far as destinations are concerned. That franchise altering player is hard to come by. Expecting to land one in free agency is rare is all I’m saying. Sixers got lucky with Embiid. Which is why I supported Sam Hinkie trust the process method because for us to get an elite talent? It’s most likely gonna come from the draft not free agency.

I feel wizards are in same spot. If your team truly wants a supermax caliber player (given the definition some of you have in this thread)? It’ll have to come by the draft. Or maaaaaybe trade if you have the right assets and that player wants to play for DC (maybe hometown etc).


So I get why wiz fans aren’t thrilled with keeping Beal at his price tag. So you can let him walk but my thinking if wit the buddy buddy system in the NBA? Maybe Beal can attract, lure help. Heck K.Leonard did it with George. That’s why I’m not against the supermax being given to Beal. Because of that potential. But I also get the flip side. He may never attract a talent as good or better than him to come there. And you’re stuck for the duration of his contract or at least the final year (easier to trade).

I’m not stupid the Wizs today are no contender. Y’all got a ways to go. Heck my sixers got some issues before I give them title contender status. And we are better than your team at the moment. So I get it and I’m all too familiar with poor mgmts given my the tenure as a sixers fan.

Wiz’s fans have a better pulse on their franchise and players than me. I’ll concede with that. Because I’ve have similar arguments with non sixers fans where it gets to the point where I say “you just don’t get it. U would have to really follow the team to understand.”. So maybe that’s where the disagreement comes from with Beal.

[warriorfan]

Beal past 30 on 50 mill a year isn’t gonna attract anything, if anything it will drive players away…if they can even sign them after giving Beal that much money that is.

[GOBB]

If you build it. They will come.

Yeah but building it means you found that supermax worthy talent already via the draft. So yeah now they will come..hopefully. Heck sixers haven’t landed a stud free agent talent in forever. Always a Tobias Harris caliber free agent even when we built something. Lol

At best we may be able to trade for a stud if they have us on their “I’d play for them” list.

[warriorfan]

Yeah but building it means you found that supermax worthy talent already via the draft. So yeah now they will come..hopefully. Heck sixers haven’t landed a stud free agent talent in forever. Always a Tobias Harris caliber free agent even when we built something. Lol

At best we may be able to trade for a stud if they have us on their “I’d play for them” list.

An aging Beal is not a super max talent….that’s the whole point of this thread

[GOBB]

Beal past 30 on 50 mill a year isn’t gonna attract anything, if anything it will drive players away…if they can even sign them after giving Beal that much money that is.

That’s nonsense. This ain’t the NFL where past 30 you got to start questioning future. Also his money has nothing to do with the attraction. It relationships players have. It’s AAU. I want to play with my homie. That’s always an possibility no matter him being past 30 making $50mil.

[warriorfan]

That’s nonsense. This ain’t the NFL where past 30 you got to start questioning future. Also his money has nothing to do with the attraction. It relationships players have. It’s AAU. I want to play with my homie. That’s always an possibility no matter him being past 30 making $50mil.

I don’t think good players wanna be permanent first round fodder no matter how good of homies they are with the tream.

[GOBB]

An aging Beal is not a super max talent….that’s the whole point of this thread

There are only a handful of supermax players. You don’t have to be a supermax player tp get a supermax deal. I think you’re having trouble grasping this. Not sure why. Also how is Beal aging when he just turned 29? You’re just adding years each day you reply in this thread. Weird. Jimmy butler is how old? Jimmy butler was given how much again? Like what

[tontoz]

We simply haven't had the cap space to pursue big name free agents. Our GM was a "take our money please" guy. He gave a big extension to Andray Blatche two years early. He was still getting paid on that deal while he was playing in China.

Saying 'you haven't signed any big free agents' doesn't matter much when we so rarely had cap space. The only guy in recent memory that we tried to get and failed was Horford.

Please stop comparing Beal to Butler. Butler carried the Heat to the Finals and would have done the same in Philly if Embiid didn't wet the bed.

[GOBB]

I don’t think good players wanna be permanent first round fodder no matter how good of homies they are with the tream.

This is based on you seeing Beal as first rd fodder. This is not based on what players whom he has close relationships with think. Just saying…



Brad Beal expressed interest in playing for sixers if traded for. James Harden ok’d the deal to Philly. Sixers haven’t been last the second rd siiiiiince…

[warriorfan]

This is based on you seeing Beal as first rd fodder. This is not based on what players whom he has close relationships with think. Just saying…

Realistically how far does a Bradley Beal led team go? Especially when he’s paid so much it makes it near impossible to sign free agents?

[GOBB]

We simply haven't had the cap space to pursue big name free agents. Our GM was a "take our money please" guy. He gave a big extension to Andray Blatche two years early. He was still getting paid on that deal while he was playing in China.

Saying 'you haven't signed any big free agents' doesn't matter much when we so rarely had cap space. The only guy in recent memory that we tried to get and failed was Horford.

Please stop comparing Beal to Butler. Butler carried the Heat to the Finals and would have done the same in Philly if Embiid didn't wet the bed.

You guys make it hard not to call you remedial. You just blasted the damn wizards mgmt. But you’re confident had wizards had cap space they could land tier 1 free agents? What world do you live in? Then you cited Gilbert who was coming of two years in the league as “going to DC”.

Your franchise hasn’t signed anyone significant because the significant players go to the same teams IF they haven’t resigned already. So stop acting like if you have endless cap space maybe Durant and company come there. They wouldn’t. DC IS NO BETTER THAN PHILLY. We have had cap space and signed who? Wake up.

I’ll compare Beal to butler bexuase butler hasn’t carried Jack shit since he was OVER 30. At Beal age he was getting the “lockeroom cancer” treatment. You got amnesia???? Jimmy today was never jimmy 3 or more years ago. You’re kidding me right now.

[GOBB]

Realistically how far does a Bradley Beal led team go? Especially when he’s paid so much it makes it near impossible to sign free agents?

Today? Not far at all. Tomorrow? Who knows. Wizards don’t have a ton of bad contracts. Porz and Kuz got player options next summer.

[Kblaze8855]

. Please stop comparing Beal to Butler. Butler carried the Heat to the Finals and would have done the same in Philly if Embiid didn't wet the bed.


An awful lot of Jimmy Butler to Miami talk was pretty dismissive of Jimmy…

People acted like he ran to the beach for a payday and couldn’t be the best player on a contender.

[tontoz]

You guys make it hard not to call you remedial. You just blasted the damn wizards mgmt. But you’re confident had wizards had cap space they could land tier 1 free agents? What world do you live in? Then you cited Gilbert who was coming of two years in the league as “going to DC”.

Your franchise hasn’t signed anyone significant because the significant players go to the same teams IF they haven’t resigned already. So stop acting like if you have endless cap space maybe Durant and company come there. They wouldn’t. DC IS NO BETTER THAN PHILLY. We have had cap space and signed who? Wake up.

I’ll compare Beal to butler bexuase butler hasn’t carried Jack shit since he was OVER 30. At Beal age he was getting the “lockeroom cancer” treatment. You got amnesia???? Jimmy today was never jimmy 3 or more years ago. You’re kidding me right now.

Speaking of remedial where did i say this, or anything remotely close to it?


But you’re confident had wizards had cap space they could land tier 1 free agents?

Grunfeld was our GM for maybe 14 years. He was fired in 2019. We have new people in charge now who have made some positive moves but the main guy was here during Grunfeld's reign of incompetence so we aren't sold on him.

This may be hard for you to understand but in order to sign quality free agents you have to actually have the cap space to do it.

Jimmy was 29 when he almost carried you guys past eventual champs Toronto. Then he carried the Heat to the Finals the following year. This year he carried the Heat to the ECF, something Beal and Embiid have never done, averaging 27 ppg in the playoffs. Did you even watch the playoffs? They were a game away from the Finals ffs.

[tontoz]

An awful lot of Jimmy Butler to Miami talk was pretty dismissive of Jimmy…

People acted like he ran to the beach for a payday and couldn’t be the best player on a contender.


Then he got to the Finals his first year there and was a game away from doing the same this year.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes he did. A lot of the “You can’t win if that’s your best player” people just need the right situation. I never wanted Jimmy to leave the bulls to begin with.

[tontoz]

Yes he did. A lot of the “You can’t win if that’s your best player” people just need the right situation. I never wanted Jimmy to leave the bulls to begin with.


Beal has been with us 10 years. We haven't made the ECF during that time, even with Wall. We have only 4 winning seasons with Beal. Either this isn't the right situation for him or he isn't about winning. Maybe both.

He is pretty good at ignoring the offense and putting up numbers though.

[GOBB]

Speaking of remedial where did i say this, or anything remotely close to it?



Grunfeld was our GM for maybe 14 years. He was fired in 2019. We have new people in charge now who have made some positive moves but the main guy was here during Grunfeld's reign of incompetence so we aren't sold on him.

This may be hard for you to understand but in order to sign quality free agents you have to actually have the cap space to do it.

Jimmy was 29 when he almost carried you guys past eventual champs Toronto. Then he carried the Heat to the Finals the following year. This year he carried the Heat to the ECF, something Beal and Embiid have never done, averaging 27 ppg in the playoffs. Did you even watch the playoffs? They were a game away from the Finals ffs.

Once again IF Wizards had cap space why do you assume you’re signing more than Tobias Harris’s of the world? Again you keep implying wizards never had cap space to sign anyone as if you really think the Wizards were ever on a wish list lol Don’t give a got damn how much history you think that city has. Top tier free agents were not going to flock there my guy. I just exposed what free agents my sixers signed. If you think DC is more of a hot spot than Philly you’re delusional.

Jimmy did NOT carry the sixers. What are you talking about? We really forgot who jimmy was said to be prior to arriving in Philly huh? Jesus.

Butler career didn’t start when he signed with Miami

[GOBB]

Yes he did. A lot of the “You can’t win if that’s your best player” people just need the right situation. I never wanted Jimmy to leave the bulls to begin with.

The irony! Lol

[Kblaze8855]

Jimmy didn’t make the ecf till 2020 himself. Plenty of legends never do as a significant contributor. I was actually surprised Beal had the playoff wins he did. I remembered you beating us but I forgot you knocked out Toronto and beat one of those fraud hawks teams. I remembered the 7 game series vs Boston when he had the big game 7 but I was thinking it was first round.

Lot of those kinda series blend together.

The wizards haven’t been like a laughing stock or anything. More respectable than I assumed. You’re not the Kings or anything. Other than that Webber run I don’t think they won a playoff series since Oscar Robertson in maybe 1963.

The wizards have been almost acceptable the last 5-10 years. Not good. But not disgusting. I watched them heavily in the Jordan years but dropped them soon after.

[tontoz]

Once again IF Wizards had cap space why do you assume you’re signing more than Tobias Harris’s of the world? Again you keep implying wizards never had cap space to sign anyone as if you really think the Wizards were ever on a wish list lol Don’t give a got damn how much history you think that city has. Top tier free agents were not going to flock there my guy. I just exposed what free agents my sixers signed. If you think DC is more of a hot spot than Philly you’re delusional.

Jimmy did NOT carry the sixers. What are you talking about? We really forgot who jimmy was said to be prior to arriving in Philly huh? Jesus.

Butler career didn’t start when he signed with Miami


DC is the nations capital and one of the richest areas in the country. Philly is neither.

If a team doesn't have cap space year after year after year there is no way to know whether free agents would be willing to come here. The only thing we know for sure that the best players here haven't left in spite of poor management. Arenas and Wall both could have easily left as UFAs if they wanted to. Beal has that same choice now.

Jimmy was easily Philly's best player against the Raps in 2019. Nobody was even close to him and they were a fluke shot away from advancing.

[warriorfan]

Are you dudes honestly comparing Bradly Beal to Jimmy Butler?

[GOBB]

Beal has been with us 10 years. We haven't made the ECF during that time, even with Wall. We have only 4 winning seasons with Beal. Either this isn't the right situation for him or he isn't about winning. Maybe both.

He is pretty good at ignoring the offense and putting up numbers though.

Butler didn’t start reach ECF til age 30. And let’s keep it 100 my many expected that either. Because when he left Philly for Miami most said it was for money not to win. Where was the hes aging remarks? First rd fodder since butler lost in the first rd quite a bit before reaching ECF. Where was the he doesn’t deserve the extension he just signed $184/4? By age 36 butler will have an player option for $51mil.

“But but but butler is a winner…”. Damn sure wasn’t the talks amongst sports media and some fans here. I’d love to do a search for jimmy butler during his Chicago and Minny stint. Guarantee what some (not u not all) said is the opposite of what I’m ready today in 2022 lol

[GOBB]

Are you dudes honestly comparing Bradly Beal to Jimmy Butler?

Yes because what was butler doing by age 29 genius? I’m here for it…

[tontoz]

Jimmy didn’t make the ecf till 2020 himself. Plenty of legends never do as a significant contributor. I was actually surprised Beal had the playoff wins he did. I remembered you beating us but I forgot you knocked out Toronto and beat one of those fraud hawks teams. I remembered the 7 game series vs Boston when he had the big game 7 but I was thinking it was first round.

Lot of those kinda series blend together.

The wizards haven’t been like a laughing stock or anything. More respectable than I assumed. You’re not the Kings or anything. Other than that Webber run I don’t think they won a playoff series since Oscar Robertson in maybe 1963.

The wizards have been almost acceptable the last 5-10 years. Not good. But not disgusting. I watched them heavily in the Jordan years but dropped them soon after.


You are forgetting we had Pierce for a year. He completely punk'd the Raps in the playoffs, talking smack about them prior to the series and then destroying them during the series. He shot 58% from 3s, had an insane 81% TS the series and hit the daggar in the elimitation game.

Beal shot 38% from the field, 33% from 3.

Against the Celtics Beal was good but the best player in the series was Isaiah Thomas.

[warriorfan]

Yes because what was butler doing by age 29 genius? I’m here for it…

Simple eye test will show you Butler is way better than Bradly Beal.

[tontoz]

Butler didn’t start reach ECF til age 30. And let’s keep it 100 my many expected that either. Because when he left Philly for Miami most said it was for money not to win. Where was the hes aging remarks? First rd fodder since butler lost in the first rd quite a bit before reaching ECF. Where was the he doesn’t deserve the extension he just signed $184/4? By age 36 butler will have an player option for $51mil.

“But but but butler is a winner…”. Damn sure wasn’t the talks amongst sports media and some fans here. I’d love to do a search for jimmy butler during his Chicago and Minny stint. Guarantee what some (not u not all) said is the opposite of what I’m ready today in 2022 lol


Back in 2019 Butler signed a 4 year deal for $141 million. That is pretty far from 5 years $248 million. I would be fine with Beal signing the same deal Butler did. The cap hasn't gone up much since then.

[Kblaze8855]

Are you dudes honestly comparing Bradly Beal to Jimmy Butler?


You honestly comparing Jimmys current perception to when he was joining his 4th team in a couple years, was getting clowned for being a cancer, prioritized less than Tobias and told he’d never win in Miami?

[GOBB]

Simple eye test will show you Butler is way better than Bradly Beal.

Hahahaha riiiiiight. Butler reached second rd 2 times before being traded to Philly after being labeled (warranted or not) a lockeroom cancer. Butler has always been looked at as a Robin, a complimentary player. Funny sounds like Beal but anyway. After his tenure in Minny was short lived and disappointing success wise he was moved to Philly. A team that was winning prior tp his arrival.

Too bad we can’t go back in time because what butler has done recently is clouding the vision with some of you posters. All the shit you give Beal? Butler was getting criticized by the same age.

“Butler is not a guy you can get far with as your best player”.

Oh my how times have changed. I guess butler AGING helped. I dunno

[warriorfan]

Hahahaha riiiiiight. Butler reached second rd 2 times before being traded to Philly after being labeled (warranted or not) a lockeroom cancer. Butler has always been looked at as a Robin, a complimentary player. Funny sounds like Beal but anyway. After his tenure in Minny was short lived and disappointing success wise he was moved to Philly. A team that was winning prior tp his arrival.

Too bad we can’t go back in time because what butler has done recently is clouding the vision with some of you posters. All the shit you give Beal? Butler was getting criticized by the same age.

“Butler is not a guy you can get far with as your best player”.

Oh my how times have changed. I guess butler AGING helped. I dunno

If you want to take a 250 million gamble that 29 year old Bradly Beal is all of a sudden going to take a jump to be on Jimmy Butlers level then…..yeah. Good luck with that one.

[Kblaze8855]

Too bad we can’t go back in time because what butler has done recently is clouding the vision with some of you posters. All the shit you give Beal? Butler was getting criticized by the same age.

“Butler is not a guy you can get far with as your best player”.

Oh my how times have changed. I guess butler AGING helped. I dunno


Thousands of people had Jimmy as a “Cant go anywhere if he’s your best player” shit during the very year they made the finals. Hell Stan vangundy said it that year. I heard him talking about it recently. He thought Jimmy should be a #3 on a great team. So much of this shit is just results based. The shit talked about Jimmy on here was hilarious.

I got called all sorts of shit for saying I wouldn’t trade Butler+ anything much for Harden at the end of his Rockets run. I think I said I wouldn’t add a pick or something but it ended up being me turning down Jimmy and my best loafers for Harden and it being proof I’d be a shit gm.

But everyone loved Jimmy….

[GOBB]

Back in 2019 Butler signed a 4 year deal for $141 million. That is pretty far from 5 years $248 million. I would be fine with Beal signing the same deal Butler did. The cap hasn't gone up much since then.

I read 4yr $184 extension.

This year $37mil
Next year $45mil
Following year $49
Last year $51mil (player option)

[warriorfan]

https://i.postimg.cc/cJ95zbGQ/ED1-B465-F-4544-4-B33-A895-B3-DA2670-E6-C5.jpg

These types of contracts almost never work out, even with players who are on a different tier then Beal.

Beals just not that dude. It’s not very complicated lol.

[tontoz]

I read 4yr $184 extension.

This year $37mil
Next year $45mil
Following year $49
Last year $51mil (player option)


That was signed after making the Finals. It's an extension. Try to keep up.

[GOBB]

If you want to take a 250 million gamble that 29 year old Bradly Beal is all of a sudden going to take a jump to be on Jimmy Butlers level then…..yeah. Good luck with that one.

A jump on Jimmy Butler level? Again what is butler doing NOW that he didn’t do at age 29? A Jimmy Butler jump? Lol imagine in 2022 we would have guys like you saying this. Butler didn’t transform into a better player. He’s the same 2 way star, blue collar player who values hard work/busting ass. The narrative and perception back then was he is a lockeroom cancer because he demanded more out of guys who he felt didn’t give 100% and was let off the hook by coaches. When butler is asked why he picked Miami? He says the culture. It was a perfect fit/meshed well. Sometimes situations just work it’s way out. Like they did in Miami. And let’s stop pretending what Miami did in the bubble wasn’t a SHOCKED to most if not all.

Butler is the same 21-6-6 hard nose defender guy he’s always been. He didn’t emerge as some elite shooter (not a 3pt threat). He didn’t emerge as a DPOY candidate. He didn’t emerge as one of the prolific scorers in the league. He’s not doing ANYTHING he hasn’t done prior to arriving in Miami. But I’m sitting here reading a different narrative as if “why is Beal compared to the great butler? Like how?”. Hahaha

[GOBB]

That was signed after making the Finals. It's an extension. Try to keep up.

Clearly you can’t add. But what else is new. You wouldn’t mind Beal being signed for such a deal when the last 3 years he makes close to $50mil much like he will his current extension. Lol


“He’s worth more like $35mil per”

*posts butler extension*

“I would’ve been happy with that for Beal”

That’s not $35mil per bud.

[tontoz]

I do remember the narrative about Butler. He clearly had issues with young guys on the Wolves/Bulls/Philly. At that time people were putting a lot of that on him. In hindsight people are like those young guys really did have issues.

[GOBB]

Thousands of people had Jimmy as a “Cant go anywhere if he’s your best player” shit during the very year they made the finals. Hell Stan vangundy said it that year. I heard him talking about it recently. He thought Jimmy should be a #3 on a great team. So much of this shit is just results based. The shit talked about Jimmy on here was hilarious.

I got called all sorts of shit for saying I wouldn’t trade Butler+ anything much for Harden at the end of his Rockets run. I think I said I wouldn’t add a pick or something but it ended up being me turning down Jimmy and my best loafers for Harden and it being proof I’d be a shit gm.

But everyone loved Jimmy….

It’s hilarious how shit changes. These two are hilarious.

[tontoz]

Clearly you can’t add. But what else is new. You wouldn’t mind Beal being signed for such a deal when the last 3 years he makes close to $50mil much like he will his current extension. Lol


“He’s worth more like $35mil per”

*posts butler extension*

“I would’ve been happy with that for Beal”

That’s not $35mil per bud.


I can't add?

:roll:

First of all the operative word is division. Secondly ...

141/4 = 35.25

:facepalm

[warriorfan]

It’s hilarious how shit changes. These two are hilarious.

Your arguments have been they should pay Beal 250 mil because maybe some of Beal’s homies will come to the wizards…even though they would have no cap room even if that’s true.

Or how Beal = Butler even when butler is on a considerably cheaper deal and is just a better player.


Beal isn’t worth 50 mil a year and that contract will **** your team’s future for years to come. It’s not that difficult to see.

[GOBB]

Your arguments have been they should pay Beal 250 mil because maybe some of Beal’s homies will come to the wizards…even though they would have no cap room even if that’s true.

Or how Beal = Butler even when butler is on a considerably cheaper deal and is just a better player.


Beal isn’t worth 50 mil a year and that contract will **** your team’s future for years to come. It’s not that difficult to see.

The contract will not mess up the teams figure. You sign Beal for $35mil instead of $50mil per. What are you signing with the $15mil difference that apparently messed up the teams future? Danny Green? Rob Covington? Markeif Morris? What game changer bud. Or wait add a Pj Tucker at $10mil per and a Andre Drummond for a couple mil? Ball game.


I have no problem with Beal on his prime before 30 getting a supermax deal. He’s worth more than $35mil per. The question was then thrown out if I have no issue with his supermax then how do the wizards become a title contender? I then said who knows. But at least having Beal you have an asset that may attract his buddies to join him. Since that is the trend in the nba. To link up.

Wash could have let the guy in his prime walk for all I care. Then play the lottery until you hit. Because the reality of it all? The tier 1 free agents are not putting Wash down on their location list. So good luck with saving supermax money and allocating it for the Tobias Harris’s of the world.

[GOBB]

I can't add?

:roll:

First of all the operative word is division. Secondly ...

141/4 = 35.25

:facepalm

That’s inaccurate but ok

[warriorfan]

The contract will not mess up the teams figure. You sign Beal for $35mil instead of $50mil per. What are you signing with the $15mil difference that apparently messed up the teams future? Danny Green? Rob Covington? Markeif Morris? What game changer bud. Or wait add a Pj Tucker at $10mil per and a Andre Drummond for a couple mil? Ball game.

35 mil is a lot more reasonable. Every dollar counts and so does every player.

Regardless you were trying to compare Beal to Butler…a superior player on a cheaper contract.

[tontoz]

That’s inaccurate but ok

:roll:

Since you have a bad memory let me educate you about your own team. Back in the summer of 2019 Butler was a U F A. He was not under contract hence he was not eligible for an extension.

The 4 year $141 million deal he signed in 2019 was a new contract. The $184 million deal he signed last year was an EXTENSION, as you said unwittingly in your own post. The word EXTENSION was what law enforcement refers to as a clue.

[GOBB]

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2021/08/07/jimmy-butler-signs-four-year-contract-extension-heat


A simple search. But I pulled the yearly salaries out my ass when I posted them earlier. Got it. Lol

[Kblaze8855]

Found my Butler or Harden take from 4 years ago. I knew it was shoe related:



If I have to trade Jimmy Butler and a late first or two second round picks for James Harden you can go **** yourself. Id bring an even swap to the coach and see what he thought about it. I wouldn't even entertain the idea of the exchange if I have to add anything in addition to it.

I wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler and my best pair of shoes for James Harden.

Straight up swap or I'm hanging up the phone. In fact I would buy an old school rotary phone before the call just so I could hang it up more emphatically if you try to get anything extra.

I’ve been riding for Jimmy for a long time waiting for the results oriented types to catch up.

He just plays how I want my star to play and has since ish was telling me he was malignant.

[GOBB]

https://www.sportscasting.com/jimmy-butler-unearthed-184-million-concern-title-contending-miami-heat/

another simple search.

[tontoz]

Found my Butler or Harden take from 4 years ago. I knew it was shoe related:




I’ve been riding for Jimmy for a long time waiting for the results oriented types to catch up.

He just plays how I want my star to play and has since ish was telling me he was malignant.


Cool that you could see the value in Butler. Since you follow the Bulls you are more likely to see his true value than people who don't follow the team.

There are no Wizards fans i am aware of that hold the same view about Beal. In fact many of them were saying Russ was our MVP when he was here just last season. That is the same guy who is seen as a cancer in LA.

To be fair though Harden 4 years ago was very different from he is now.

[tontoz]

https://www.sportscasting.com/jimmy-butler-unearthed-184-million-concern-title-contending-miami-heat/

another simple search.




In 2019, Butler inked a four-year, $140.8 contract with the Heat. Last summer, he signed a three-year extension worth $136.4 million. That means after this season, Butler will be on the hook for approximately $184 million over four seasons.

The initial contract was good. The extension is definitely risky but Riley knows better than we do. He has given out some dubious contracts though.

[GOBB]

Found my Butler or Harden take from 4 years ago. I knew it was shoe related:




I’ve been riding for Jimmy for a long time waiting for the results oriented types to catch up.

He just plays how I want my star to play and has since ish was telling me he was malignant.

That vision. Kudos to you. I always felt Jimmy was the right star to pair with Embiid and still do to get to the finals. Obviously Brett Brown got in the way of that. But coaching aside those 2? Easy to build around them. Jimmy fits the personality of the city. As long as u leave it all on the court the city will love you.

[GOBB]

The initial contract was good. The extension is definitely risky but Riley knows better than we do. He has given out some dubious contracts though.

I was expecting more like an apology from you sir. $35.5mil per worth lol

[tontoz]

I was expecting more like an apology from you sir. $35.5mil per worth lol


You really aren't very bright. The initial contract that he signed with the Heat at Beals age was 4 years 141 million. Your own link shows that ffs.


In 2019, Butler inked a four-year, $140.8 contract with the Heat

35.25 x 4 = 141 million. This is not difficult math.

[GOBB]

You really aren't very bright. The initial contract that he signed with the Heat at Beals age was 4 years 141 million. Your own link shows that ffs.



35.25 x 4 = 141 million. This is not difficult math.

He signed a new extension last fall. You clearly can’t read and comprehend. Bur I’ll be here posting his salary each season. That way we can see where $35.5mil is made.

[GOBB]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html

[tontoz]

He signed a new extension last fall. You clearly can’t read and comprehend. Bur I’ll be here posting his salary each season. That way we can see where $35.5mil is made.


Yeah that was AFTER making the Finals and taking the Lakers to 6 games in spite of his team's injuries. When did Beal carry his team to the Finals? I missed it somehow.

:facepalm

[tontoz]

Since you couldn't read my initial post on this clearly i will repost it.

RIF




Back in 2019 Butler signed a 4 year deal for $141 million. That is pretty far from 5 years $248 million. I would be fine with Beal signing the same deal Butler did. The cap hasn't gone up much since then.

[GOBB]

That cash guarantee tho ($184)

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/miami-heat//cap

[GOBB]

35 mil is a lot more reasonable. Every dollar counts and so does every player.

Regardless you were trying to compare Beal to Butler…a superior player on a cheaper contract.

Compare their yearly salaries. And tell me how much cheaper it really is. I’ll wait sir…

[tontoz]

Right. How does the 2021 extension have anything to do with my post?

You pulled up his extension thinking that was the deal was the one he signed in 2019, to dumb to realize what the word extension means.

[GOBB]

Right. How does the 2021 extension have anything to do with my post?

You pulled up his extension thinking that was the deal was the one he signed in 2019, to dumb to realize what the word extension means.

No clue why you’re posting nonsense from 2019. I listed what Butler makes this season until his deal expires. You were the one saying he is getting $35mil per which he’s not. The whole argument is you’re not ok with Beal extension but ok with Butler extension at age 32. Makes zero sense.

[GOBB]

Butler



This year $37mil
Next year $45mil
Following year $49
Last year $51mil (player option)



Now post Beals and let’s really look at it from a year to year standpoint. Swap Beal with Butler and I guess expect a bubble like performance with those Wizards huh? Being as tho Butler is by far a superior player with a much cheaper deal that won’t screw us signing anyone right?

Oh ok

[tontoz]

No clue why you’re posting nonsense from 2019. I listed what Butler makes this season until his deal expires. You were the one saying he is getting $35mil per which he’s not. The whole argument is you’re not ok with Beal extension but ok with Butler extension at age 32. Makes zero sense.

In 2019 Butler was Beals age and hadnt reached the Finals. That's why.

Butler made the Finals and got rewarded for it with a lucrative extension. Not relevant to the discussion since Beal has never even made the ECF and has only 4 winning records in 10 years.

You keep making stuff up and pretending i said it. Might be time for Hooked on Phonics.

[GOBB]

In 2019 Butler was Beals age and hadnt reached the Finals. That's why.

Butler made the Finals and got rewarded for it with a lucrative extension. Not relevant to the discussion since Beal has never even made the ECF and has only 4 winning records in 10 years.

You keep making stuff up and pretending i said it. Might be time for Hooked on Phonics.

So you posted irrelevant information? That’s not shocking given what you have done.

What did Butler do up until that point? Was voted to one more all nba team? It’s just so convenient for idiots like yourself to operate off hindsight. Everything you’re saying about Beal and his shortcomings could be applied to Jimmy Butler. Once again the criticism was Jimmy doesn’t want to win bexuase he would have stayed in Philly and not picked south beach. Not many including yourself was saying BS watch jimmy. Kblaze but you? Foh.

Crazy how butler narratives disappear and now we have new ones for Beal. The other idiot actually labeled him “AGING” hahaha

Weird dudes here but it’s ISH. What do you expect

[tontoz]

So you posted irrelevant information? That’s not shocking given what you have done.

What did Butler do up until that point? Was voted to one more all nba team? It’s just so convenient for idiots like yourself to operate off hindsight. Everything you’re saying about Beal and his shortcomings could be applied to Jimmy Butler. Once again the criticism was Jimmy doesn’t want to win bexuase he would have stayed in Philly and not picked south beach. Not many including yourself was saying BS watch jimmy. Kblaze but you? Foh.

Crazy how butler narratives disappear and now we have new ones for Beal. The other idiot actually labeled him “AGING” hahaha

Weird dudes here but it’s ISH. What do you expect


I posted irrelevant information? I posted the initial contract that Jimmy signed with the Heat at Beal's age. That is very relevant. Like you just said yourself.


Everything you’re saying about Beal and his shortcomings could be applied to Jimmy Butler


Beal is in a similar situation to Butler in 2019 that is why his 2019 contract is relevant. You admitted as much yourself then accuse me of posting irrelevant info.

:facepalm

Then Butler carried his team to the Finals, changing the narrative around him and increasing his value. Beal has done no such thing that is why Butlers extension is irrelevant to Beal.

[GOBB]

I posted irrelevant information? I posted the initial contract that Jimmy signed with the Heat at Beal's age. That is very relevant. Like you just said yourself.




Beal is in a similar situation to Butler in 2019 that is why his 2019 contract is relevant. You admitted as much yourself then accuse me of posting irrelevant info.

:facepalm

Then Butler carried his team to the Finals, changing the narrative around him and increasing his value. Beal has done no such thing that is why Butlers extension is irrelevant to Beal.

I want you to address why you came out your mouth and claimed Butler carried the Sixers? Is it because of what he did the following year in the bubble? I believe so. But wanna hear you tell it.

Also have you always saw Butler as someone who can lead a team tl the finals? Do you feel like his bubble season was an anamoly more than an indication he is that kind of player? Do you feel he is just in the right situation. From coaching (one of the best in the game) to personnel to a style that fits him as a player (just physical defense)?

If butler was in place of Beal how would you feel? Would the future of the Wizards be f*cked since it is with this extension Beal is being given? Because truthfully the difference is the amount of years. The per year is still significant for both players.

[tontoz]

I want you to address why you came out your mouth and claimed Butler carried the Sixers? Is it because of what he did the following year in the bubble? I believe so. But wanna hear you tell it.

Also have you always saw Butler as someone who can lead a team tl the finals? Do you feel like his bubble season was an anamoly more than an indication he is that kind of player? Do you feel he is just in the right situation. From coaching (one of the best in the game) to personnel to a style that fits him as a player (just physical defense)?

If butler was in place of Beal how would you feel? Would the future of the Wizards be f*cked since it is with this extension Beal is being given? Because truthfully the difference is the amount of years. The per year is still significant for both players.


I think i already covered this. Against the Raps in the playoffs he was by far their best player while Embiid wet the bed. They were 1 fluke shot away from beating the eventual champs. I was talking about the series, not the entire season.

No i haven't always seen him as someone who could lead a team to the Finals. I was impressed with how he looked over the years but didnt really go out of my way to watch him during the regular season. I paid more attention to him in the playoffs. When he went to Miami i certainly didn't forsee him leading them to the Finals. I was basically indifferent.

If 29 yr old Butler was on the Wizards now i probably wouldn't want to pay him 5 years 250 million either, but watching someone on your team for years isn't the same as watching him occassionally. It is conceivable i would be willing to pay him more than i am willing to pay Beal but i cant say for sure.

[GOBB]

So raps series butler was the best player. Thus he carried the Sixers? Lol Interesting.

And yes Embiid shyt the bed that series.

[tontoz]

So raps series butler was the best player. Thus he carried the Sixers? Lol Interesting.

And yes Embiid shyt the bed that series.

I would say he carried them in that series. I don't see any other way to look at it. He was easily their best player in a series that came down to the last shot.

I typically don't watch the Sixers much during the regular season.

[GOBB]

For that series you can say he was the best player

[Kblaze8855]

A guy with the nfl said they’re negotiating with apple and Amazon for streaming rights to nfl Sunday ticket for 3 billion dollars to take it from directv. The resulting bidding war could make Sunday ticket digital rights alone end up generating half in 2025 what all nfl revenue was in 2010. Those companies are gonna rebuild sports leagues business model from the ground up.

I assume the bubble has to burst one day but it isn’t right now. It’s gonna get worse salary wise before it gets better.

[DMAVS41]

A guy with the nfl said they’re negotiating with apple and Amazon for streaming rights to nfl Sunday ticket for 3 billion dollars to take it from directv. The resulting bidding war could make Sunday ticket digital rights alone end up generating half in 2025 what all nfl revenue was in 2010. Those companies are gonna rebuild sports leagues business model from the ground up.

I assume the bubble has to burst one day but it isn’t right now. It’s gonna get worse salary wise before it gets better.

Live sports are still a huge draw. Obviously football is still king, but we've already seen Apple get into the baseball game....and there is likely a future where you can pay some streaming platform to get all the games and not worry about regional sports networks. That could be further off, but quality 4k hdr streams for NBA would likely be a big draw and something I'd certainly pay more for.

The numbers are likely to get pretty crazy in the coming years.

[Kblaze8855]

Live sports has to be the plan for appletv. That service has next to nothing on it and apple has too much wrapped up in it to let it stay that way. They refuse to buy content. They create it or air it live.

[DMAVS41]

Live sports has to be the plan for appletv. That service has next to nothing on it and apple has too much wrapped up in it to let it stay that way. They refuse to buy content. They create it or air it live.

Yea...it has to be the plan. Like I said...if they were to get in on NBA and produce high quality 4k streams with decent frame rates...I think a lot of people, once they see the difference, would be interested. NBA TV already has some 4k streams on Youtube TV that are pretty good, but could get a lot better imo.

Severance and For All Mankind are both really good if you haven't checked them out.

[Kblaze8855]

Woh reports he’s officially signing for 5/251. Cap went up more than expected so it’s a little more.

I expect a trade request year 2.

[DMAVS41]

Anfernee Simons just got a 4 year 100 million dollar deal and I'm pretty sure he hasn't started more than a handful of games in his career...most of them last season when CJ got traded.

Crazy, but going to look like a steal in 2 years if he continues his progression curve.

[DMAVS41]

Woh reports he’s officially signing for 5/251. Cap went up more than expected so it’s a little more.

I expect a trade request year 2.


Bold is definitely possible....but unless there is an injury...the Wizards will get positive value for his contract and they'll be glad from a team building standpoint that they have him on the books to make that trade.

Depending on what happens with the Mavs...I could definitely see them going after Beal in the 2024 season in an effort to appease Luka.

[coin24]

Beal is always injured and basically a career loser. Pretty underwhelming if you actually watch the guy play.
Washington loves handing out these huge deals that go to shit:lol

Hopefully they can surround him with some better pieces and they could actually make the playoffs

[warriorfan]

Good luck! :lol

[nayte]

I haven't watched a lot of Beal but is he really worth that much?

[tontoz]

I haven't watched a lot of Beal but is he really worth that much?

No, not even close. Wiznation is in mourning now. :(

[DMAVS41]

No, not even close. Wiznation is in mourning now. :(

It will be ok unless there is a bad injury.

See what you have with KP and Beal… if it isn’t noteworthy… they can move KP and then evaluate the situation with Beal. Mavs, for example, would likely give up a bunch of unprotected picks and expiring salary for him.

Not the best feeling as a fan I’m sure, but it’s worth a look at the team this coming year before you let a player like Beal walk.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Knowing I will not end the argument I will weigh in anyway:

This is not about what is fair or right. This is a business where revenue went up and due to the CBA player pay will go up along with it. A lot of us are going to be shocked repeatedly. Believe me a few years ago when I was arguing with DMavs about Smart's next contact I couldn't wrap my head around it. The reality is that roleplayer pay today was all-star pay a decade ago. So just accept that the money is huge. If it's a problem (and it isn't) it's not your problem.

[DMAVS41]

Knowing I will not end the argument I will weigh in anyway:

This is not about what is fair or right. This is a business where revenue went up and due to the CBA player pay will go up along with it. A lot of us are going to be shocked repeatedly. Believe me a few years ago when I was arguing with DMavs about Smart's next contact I couldn't wrap my head around it. The reality is that roleplayer pay today was all-star pay a decade ago. So just accept that the money is huge. If it's a problem (and it isn't) it's not your problem.

Yep.

I posted it earlier, but it warrants another…

Anfernee Simons just got 100 million and he’s started less than 50 games in his career.

[John8204]

Over/Under 2 years Washington honors this contract

[Sulico]

Beal plays there forever and they are always bad.

Do they think this is just a coincidence? Why don't they just loose with cheaper players, what's the difference?

It surprises me how bad teams always find creative ways to stay bad.

[DMAVS41]

Beal plays there forever and they are always bad.

Do they think this is just a coincidence? Why don't they just loose with cheaper players, what's the difference?

It surprises me how bad teams always find creative ways to stay bad.

If you want to lose...then just trade Beal.

Rudy Gobert just got traded for 4 first round picks.

Teams trying to win will give up a ton of picks to get a player like Beal...then tank and rebuild.

See what you have with Beal / KP...if you don't like it...move them both for picks and tank. You'll have 5 extra first round picks doing it that way or at least one really good young player and picks. Definitely plus EV vs just letting Beal walk.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Beal plays there forever and they are always bad.

Do they think this is just a coincidence? Why don't they just loose with cheaper players, what's the difference?

It surprises me how bad teams always find creative ways to stay bad.
Beal isn't the reason they're bad he's just not a great enough player to make them good. He still has a market value and if they don't meet that value he walks for nothing vs. having him to at worst trade for more assets.

[Jasper]

I am disappointed in him.
Granted he is loyal , but the Wiz will never sniff the ECF , they are better suited in the bathroom.

Beal should of taken less money and went with a contender.... it would of made him !

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

I am disappointed in him.
Granted he is loyal , but the Wiz will never sniff the ECF , they are better suited in the bathroom.

Beal should of taken less money and went with a contender.... it would of made him !


He isn't going to play through that whole contract with the Wizards. He did the smart thing and got himself the Generational BAG. In 2 or 3 years, assuming he's still busting his ass and is still putting in his work, he'll be traded or bought out by a contender. He gets to eat his cake and keep it too.

[NBAGOAT]

I think there’s a chance beal isn’t even going be a positive asset in 2-3 years so I would’ve rather let him walk or better do a sign and trade with him. Yes contracts have gotten big but i think lavine is a bit overpaid and he’s a younger better player than Beal and only got a 30% deal while Beal got 35%. For the record even if they were a bit overpaid, I was fine with every other max given out to booker towns lavine etc

[DMAVS41]

I think there’s a chance beal isn’t even going be a positive asset in 2-3 years so I would’ve rather let him walk or better do a sign and trade with him. Yes contracts have gotten big but i think lavine is a bit overpaid and he’s a younger better player than Beal and only got a 30% deal while Beal got 35%. For the record even if they were a bit overpaid, I was fine with every other max given out to booker towns lavine etc

There's always a chance, but a healthy Beal in 2 years is getting some version of the Gobert deal from a desperate team if the Wizards go that way.

[Jasper]

Beal is 29 years old ----- he has 3-5 years tops before his body tells him differently.
Still in his prime , he has probably 3 years left before it all starts coming down.