How does Lebron's fewer titles in twice as many seasons put him over Magic

[3ba11]

It's preposterous

4 chips and 4 MVP's in 20 seasons > 5 chips and 3 MVP's in 11 seasons

That makes no sense...

Ultimately, neither guy could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), so both guys needed all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match their Finals scoring

[StrongLurk]

It's preposterous

4 chips and 4 MVP's in 20 seasons > 5 chips and 3 MVP's in 11 seasons

That makes no sense...

Ultimately, neither guy could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), so both guys needed all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match their Finals scoring

Bill Russell > MJ.

Thanks OP.

[warriorfan]

Magic needed KAJ. Bron couldn’t even do it with prime D Wade.

Curry did it with Andrew Wiggins.

[3ba11]

Bill Russell > MJ.

Thanks OP.


In 3-pointer history, MJ has the most chips as the best player, so he's the goat

Russell didn't play against blacks and was carried statistically by teammates that doubled his scoring

[StrongLurk]

In 3-pointer history, MJ has the most chips as the best player, so he's the goat

Russell didn't play against blacks and was carried statistically by teammates that doubled his scoring

Oh so you want to provide context now? Based on your OP, this is what you think. Bill Russell 11 rings and 5 MVPs > MJ 6 rings and 5 MVPs.


Also see below.

Magic played on a superteam his whole career against weak competition and was ALWAYS carried for scoring.

Lebron played against much better comp and was a far superior scorer than Magic, so Lebron > Magic easily.


Quit being such a little whiny bitch OP, you cry more than any female I've ever met.

[3ba11]

Oh so you want to provide context now? Based on your OP, this is what you think. Bill Russell 11 rings and 5 MVPs > MJ 6 rings and 5 MVPs.


Also see below.

Magic played on a superteam his whole career against weak competition and was ALWAYS carried for scoring.

Lebron played against much better comp and was a far superior scorer than Magic, so Lebron > Magic easily.


Quit being such a little whiny bitch OP, you cry more than any female I've ever met.


If you don't lead your team in scoring, then you aren't comparable to MJ

And Lebron didn't play better comp than Magic.. That's ridiculous... The 17' Warriors compare to the 80's Celtics and are probably below the 83' Sixers... Magic played these teams more than Lebron faced the 17 or 18' Warriors

[Wally450]

How does a guy make so many threads about a guy he considers a fraud? Seems obsessive...

[3ba11]

How does a guy make so many threads about a guy he considers a fraud? Seems obsessive...


A lot of people obsess over fraud and people getting away with schemes

Pretty common

[red1]

https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cgkt9w6PaDs/U1xiu79AgvI/AAAAAAAAyrs/k9__GR95mps/s1600/giphy.gif

[StrongLurk]

If you don't lead your team in scoring, then you aren't comparable to MJ

And Lebron didn't play better comp than Magic.. That's ridiculous... The 17' Warriors compare to the 80's Celtics and are probably below the 83' Sixers... Magic played these teams more than Lebron faced the 17 or 18' Warriors

Lol once again showing you are just a little bitch troll. Using your same logic AGAIN, Magic cannot be compared to Lebron since Magic rarely ever lead the Lakers in scoring unlike Lebron.

Just delete this thread and your other Curry thread you made. Try again tomorrow (since we all know you will).

[3ba11]

Lol once again showing you are just a little bitch troll. Using your same logic AGAIN, Magic cannot be compared to Lebron since Magic rarely ever lead the Lakers in scoring unlike Lebron.

Just delete this thread and your other Curry thread you made. Try again tomorrow (since we all know you will).


Neither Magic nor Lebron led their team in scoring for every playoff run

So what's your point?

Only Jordan did - only Jordan defeated maximum defensive attention for his entire career - that's why no one compares to him

[StrongLurk]

A lot of people obsess over fraud and people getting away with schemes

Pretty common

Glad you admit you are obsessed. That's one small step in your mental health journey. Your next step is to make an appointment with a therapist and make a change in your life. I know in the black community getting mental health help is "frowned" upon, but you got to rise above that.

[StrongLurk]

Neither Magic nor Lebron led their team in scoring for every playoff run

So what's your point?

Only Jordan did - only Jordan defeated maximum defensive attention for his entire career - that's why no one compares to him

You literally made a thread about Magic vs Lebron and tried to claim Magic was better. I showed you using the "logic" you often spout in other threads that Lebron is indeed greater than Magic based on Lebron's ability to score far exceeding Magic's. Was it really so hard for you to understand my point?

The same logic you use to say Jordan > Lebron also means that Lebron > Magic.

[SouBeachTalents]

Neither Magic nor Lebron led their team in scoring for every playoff run

So what's your point?

Only Jordan did - only Jordan defeated maximum defensive attention for his entire career - that's why no one compares to him
Neither did Kobe, in fact, he has several more playoff runs not leading his team in scoring than LeBron does, including 3 titles.

[LeGoat4Life]

Only the minority has Lebron over Magic

The majority for the basketball fan base 90% has Lebron correctly ranked in the top 15

[3ba11]

Neither did Kobe, in fact, he has several more playoff runs not leading his team in scoring than LeBron does, including 3 titles.


The point is that Lebron and Magic can't defeat maximum defensive attention (can't carry scoring load in Finals) because they never did.


Otoh, Kobe did in 09' and 10', so he proved that he could do it.

If you can't carry the scoring load in the Finals, then you need more help, specifically an all-time scorer and elite 1st option as sidekick.. You can't win with less help, aka a secondary producer like Wiggins or Pau

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominance can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams... Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry/MJ carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen

[SouBeachTalents]

The point is that Lebron and Magic can't defeat maximum defensive attention (can't carry scoring load in Finals) because they never did.


Otoh, Kobe did in 09' and 10', so he proved that he could do it.

If you can't carry the scoring load in the Finals, then you need more help, specifically an all-time scorer and elite 1st option as sidekick.. You can't win with less help, aka a secondary producer like Wiggins

Lebron can't carry the scoring load in Finals because his ball-dominance can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams... Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry/MJ carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen
Shaq did this for 3 straight Finals and he’s not even in your top 10.

[StrongLurk]

The point is that Lebron and Magic can't defeat maximum defensive attention (can't carry scoring load in Finals) because they never did.


Otoh, Kobe did in 09' and 10', so he proved that he could do it.

If you can't carry the scoring load in the Finals, then you need more help, specifically an all-time scorer and elite 1st option as sidekick.. You can't win with less help, aka a secondary producer like Wiggins or Pau

Ultimately, Lebron's ball-dominance can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams... Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry/MJ carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen

Bro you are such a little bitch, aren't you like 45?

You never even brought up Magic and "maximum defensive attention" until I called you out on it a few months ago. You used to always have Magic in your top ten and then I showed you how much of a bitch you are. And now you try to put guys like Lebron, Magic, Shaq out of the top 10 all time...you are a clown

[tpols]

Magic needed KAJ. Bron couldn’t even do it with prime D Wade.

Curry did it with Andrew Wiggins.

Boom.

Ingram is a comparable talent to Wiggins and LeBron was lotto with him.

[tpols]

Oh so you want to provide context now? Based on your OP, this is what you think. Bill Russell 11 rings and 5 MVPs > MJ 6 rings and 5 MVPs.


Also see below.

Magic played on a superteam his whole career against weak competition and was ALWAYS carried for scoring.

Lebron played against much better comp and was a far superior scorer than Magic, so Lebron > Magic easily.


Quit being such a little whiny bitch OP, you cry more than any female I've ever met.

Magic led offenses that were better than Lebrons even when Kareem exited his prime. Like factually... higher ranked offenses. Magic made everyone better at that's the key which is why he threw way more dimes and was the engine of Showtime.

[StrongLurk]

Magic led offenses that were better than Lebrons even when Kareem exited his prime. Like factually... higher ranked offenses. Magic made everyone better at that's the key which is why he threw way more dimes and was the engine of Showtime.

You need to tell OP that Magic is better than Lebron. According to OPs logic, Lebron > Magic due to Lebron's far greater scoring capabilities. This is what OP is saying.

[3ba11]

Bro you are such a little bitch, aren't you like 45?

You never even brought up Magic and "maximum defensive attention" until I called you out on it a few months ago. You used to always have Magic in your top ten and then I showed you how much of a bitch you are. And now you try to put guys like Lebron, Magic, Shaq out of the top 10 all time...you are a clown


I previously excluded big men from my rankings but the rankings look like this if bigs are included

MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry, Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Magic

Magic at #10 is the first ball-dominator on the list

[ShawkFactory]

God this is such a stupid thread :lol

Classic offseason.

[StrongLurk]

I previously excluded big men from my rankings but the rankings look like this if bigs are included

MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry, Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Hakeem, Shaq, Magic

Thanks for showing everyone you are a shameless troll. Damn dude how do you cry so much everyday? You'd get your ass beat (or worse) if you ever talked to people in real life how you talk to people online.

[3ba11]

Thanks for showing everyone you are a shameless troll. Damn dude how do you cry so much everyday? You'd get your ass beat (or worse) if you ever talked to people in real life how you talk to people online.


You're just mad that you worship a basketball player who cannot defeat maximum defensive attention and needs a teammate to score nearly as much in the Finals.

And I'm 6'7" good athlete.. No one has ever challenged me outside the court

[StrongLurk]

You're just mad that you worship a basketball player who cannot defeat maximum defensive attention and needs a teammate to score nearly as much in the Finals.

And I'm 6'7" good athlete.. No one has ever challenged me outside the court

I don't worship any basketball players. You worship MJ. You are clearly the one who's mad at the world hence your over 100,000 posts crying about how people view Lebron. Also your size doesn't matter at all when someone strapped puts you on the ground.

Thread Cliffs:

OP is a 45 year old loser who cries more than all posters on the board combined and certainly more than any female.

[3ba11]

I don't worship any basketball players. You worship MJ. You are clearly the one who's mad at the world hence your over 100,000 posts crying about how people view Lebron. Also your size doesn't matter at all when someone strapped puts you on the ground.


Except no one has done that in 45 years... I'm like Mayweather - undefeated

[red1]

Except no one has done that in 45 years... I'm like Mayweather - undefeated

thats my line fam


you cant use the same lines I use on you - and when I say it, it's actually true


went 50-0 against your ass like the real money team


https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/07/19/Photos/MG/MW-FQ577_floyd__20170719095420_MG.jpg

[Johnny32]

I don't worship any basketball players. You worship MJ. You are clearly the one who's mad at the world hence your over 100,000 posts crying about how people view Lebron. Also your size doesn't matter at all when someone strapped puts you on the ground.

Thread Cliffs:

OP is a 45 year old loser who cries more than all posters on the board combined and certainly more than any female.

word is he's actually a kobe fan who got tired of getting his shit pushed in by legoat fans so he jumped shit. pretty embarrassing.

[red1]

john rogers.

john starks.

madonna.

stockton and hornacek.






scottie pippen.













1-9.

[red1]

https://i.postimg.cc/r88dxQ2c/Rivalry-Decade.jpg

[red1]

https://c.tenor.com/cziHCaTX5RsAAAAC/lebron-james-lebron-james-walking.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cgkt9w6PaDs/U1xiu79AgvI/AAAAAAAAyrs/k9__GR95mps/s1600/giphy.gif

[HylianNightmare]

Lenotthatgood

[red1]

Lenotthatgood

even ended up carrying dwight's goofy bum ass to a ring - long ways from 2009, and from 6'10 hedo and 6'9 rashard vs 6'3 delonte and 6'1 mo williams :roll:


https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/5c969d0e-4177-4959-b465-20e0ecbef21f.34e08084e9467d95c843382591d25862.jpeg

[And1AllDay]

Bill Russell > MJ.

Thanks OP.

this

[plowking]

Hakeem was better than Duncan despite less rings.

Shaq was better than Kobe despite less rings.

Bird was better than Magic despite less rings.


Rings don't make you a better player. Charles Barkley is 3 times better than Paul Pierce and he has no rings.

American sports narrative is jacked up, and because most of you are too lazy to actually debate the game outside of arbitrary stats - you can't formulate a decent opinion as to why one player is better than another. Same way OP is dumb as bricks and reduces basketball to Player A averaged this much and his second option averaged this much, so he is better than player B because his gap between his second option was smaller.

You're a dumbass. Shut the f*ck up.

[And1AllDay]

Hakeem was better than Duncan despite less rings.

Shaq was better than Kobe despite less rings.

Bird was better than Magic despite less rings.


Rings don't make you a better player. Charles Barkley is 3 times better than Paul Pierce and he has no rings.

American sports narrative is jacked up, and because most of you are too lazy to actually debate the game outside of arbitrary stats - you can't formulate a decent opinion as to why one player is better than another. Same way OP is dumb as bricks and reduces basketball to Player A averaged this much and his second option averaged this much, so he is better than player B because his gap between his second option was smaller.

You're a dumbass. Shut the f*ck up.

word


crazy thing is basketball is the only sport where people do that



no one looks at world series wins to say who is the best baseball player they go on skill only

[3ba11]

Hakeem was better than Duncan despite less rings.

Shaq was better than Kobe despite less rings.

Bird was better than Magic despite less rings.





None of those guys played twice as many seasons and won less rings

4 rings in 20 years isn't top 10

Those guys also have other obvious arguments like production rate (stats), defense or better accolades

So if Lebron's horrible ring frequency puts him outside the top 10, how in the world can he be comparable to MJ if his accolades and stats are inferior too?

Only fraud.. Only fraud can overrate Lebron like that

[Full Court]

"How does Lebron's fewer titles in twice as many seasons put him over Magic "

Short answer: it doesn't.

[plowking]

None of those guys played twice as many seasons and won less rings

4 rings in 20 years isn't top 10

Those guys also have other obvious arguments like production rate (stats), defense or better accolades

So if Lebron's horrible ring frequency puts him outside the top 10, how in the world can he be comparable to MJ if his accolades and stats are inferior too?

Only fraud.. Only fraud can overrate Lebron like that


Cool. Have him outside of your top 10. Shut up about it though. It is all you talk about.

[3ba11]

Cool. Have him outside of your top 10. Shut up about it though. It is all you talk about.


I'll do as I please, which means I'll keep calling out the Lebron fraud

And you'll keep crying about it

Lebron was just another losing ball-dominator like Luka until the "decision".. Their skillsets lack the teammate fits, teammate development, chemistry and brand of ball to win organically, so they must be talent-based winners (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)

fake goat case and manufactured resume

[plowking]

Yet Bron is better than Mike.

All the stats prove it.

[3ba11]

Yet Bron is better than Mike.

All the stats prove it.


Jordan is #1 all-time in every production rate stat like PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48... And PPG.... And plus/minus... And Raptor... Any stat you want..

Clutch stats (last 5 within 5) - we have these stats for old MJ in 97' and 98' vs any part of LeFraud's career

Jordan averages 5 more in the playoffs with better efficiency per possession

And Jordan always defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load in every series).. Otoh, Lebron had teammates match or lead in scoring for entire playoff runs (11', 16', 20')

[Baller789]

Yet Bron is better than Mike.

All the stats prove it.

Unfortunately for you, most people aren't so gullible.

[plowking]

Jordan is #1 all-time in every production rate stat like PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48... And PPG.... And plus/minus... And Raptor... Any stat you want


Of course, because he got in and out quickly and didn't have the longevity of some of the other guys.

From their first title to their last for both Bron and Jordan - Bron outperformed Michael in the playoffs:

Ages 27-35 Bron: 29.6 PER / WS PER 48 - .259 / 10.4 BPM / 21 VORP
Ages 27-34 MJ: 28.1 PER / WS PER 38 - .258 / 10.6 BPM / 16 VORP

Did all of that on 4% less usage! Yikes for Mike. In the prime of their careers, Bron was clearly ahead and more valuable. Mike won 6, Bron won 4. Only reason is, Mike had more help and went up against worst competition.

But just goes to show, at the highest level - which is the playoffs, Bron shone a little bit brighter when both were at the peak of their powers (winning titles).

[Sportal]

Did LeBron play with Wade in 2009? Shit, musta missed it.

[And1AllDay]

Yet Bron is better than Mike.

All the stats prove it.

issa wraaaap

[kawhileonard2]

And Steph has more titles in less years despite Lebron stacking the deck and Steph beating Lebron 3x.

[kawhileonard2]

Of course, because he got in and out quickly and didn't have the longevity of some of the other guys.

From their first title to their last for both Bron and Jordan - Bron outperformed Michael in the playoffs:

Ages 27-35 Bron: 29.6 PER / WS PER 48 - .259 / 10.4 BPM / 21 VORP
Ages 27-34 MJ: 28.1 PER / WS PER 38 - .258 / 10.6 BPM / 16 VORP

Did all of that on 4% less usage! Yikes for Mike. In the prime of their careers, Bron was clearly ahead and more valuable. Mike won 6, Bron won 4. Only reason is, Mike had more help and went up against worst competition.

But just goes to show, at the highest level - which is the playoffs, Bron shone a little bit brighter when both were at the peak of their powers (winning titles).

Longevity doesn't matter when you are losing a lot. Jordan was winning a lot and left early. Jordan won soo much where you had to win 4 series a year to win a title that guys like Kareem, Duncan, Kobe, Magic, Lebron had to play 20 years to get even close to the same amount of winning.

[3ba11]

Of course, because he got in and out quickly and didn't have the longevity of some of the other guys.





Jordan had 13 playoff seasons and Lebron's best 13 years had lower stats than Jordan..... despite the baseball year in 95'






From their first title to their last for both Bron and Jordan - Bron outperformed Michael in the playoffs:

Ages 27-35 Bron: 29.6 PER / WS PER 48 - .259 / 10.4 BPM / 21 VORP
Ages 27-34 MJ: 28.1 PER / WS PER 38 - .258 / 10.6 BPM / 16 VORP





Lebron wasn't winning titles from 27-35 because he lost 5 of those years

Whereas Jordan only lost once from 27-35, so we need to include more losing years for Jordan to match Lebron's many losing years between 27-35.

Accordingly, throw in 89' and 90' and get back to me.. Furthermore, 95' wasn't Jordan's prime because of baseball, so your numbers are even more garbage






the prime of their careers




6 titles in 7 years and 2 three-peats - no one touches Jordan's prime

And he won the 6 while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying the scoring load)

Carrying the scoring load means that Jordan won with secondary producers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that averaged far less - he didn't have all-time scorers and elite 1st options like Wade, AD or Kyrie that nearly match Lebron in the Finals.






Only reason is, Mike had more help





When did Lebron win a Finals while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying the scoring load)?

Lebron needed all-time scorers at sidekick to nearly match his scoring in the Finals - he couldn't win with secondary scorers like Wiggins or Pippen that average far less than him and require him to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).

So Lebron had more dominant sidekicks and a 3rd all-star teammate, which Jordan never had.. aka more help.. :confusedshrug:






worse competition.





The comp argument doesn't work for preseason favorites because that rewards underachieving the expectation..

Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 11-16'.

So he had the on-paper, talent favorite but weak brand prevented great teams like his opponents.. And Lebron loses to everyone - he lost to multiple 1-star teams as the favorite (Magic, Mavs)






worse competition.





Jordan faced Finals opponents that had better-ranked defenses and more scoring options (Lakers and Blazers) or opponents with more all-stars (Suns, Sonics)... The Jazz were the only team that didn't have more talent but they had a 10-year organic brand that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson






worse competition.





Regular Season

Hornacek (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html).... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp on 33,964 min.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
Klay (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html)'............ 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp on 20,380 min.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

Hornacek (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html).... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp on 4766 min.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
Klay (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html)'............ 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp on 4570 min.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts


Heading into the 15' season, Klay and Dray hadn't been all-stars yet, while Stockton/Malone were HOF's and Hornacek was a 1-time all-star with superior production than Klay across the board (see stats above)

So the pre-Durant Warriors were noobs - they stand no chance against the Jazz 10-year organic brand that demolished Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan/Robinson

[plowking]

The comparison is sound. 27-34 or 35, the peak of their powers.

We don't have to include the seasons Jordan lost, because he was winning in the same time frame where as LeBron took a couple of Ls due to having to carry the load more and playing better competition. Pretty straight forward, considering his output was higher, hence the higher PER, VORP and WS per 48 in the same age period, yet he lost.

Jordan had it easier, but Bron produced more, and still won 4 titles. Pretty easy comparison.

Bron>Jordan.


The comp argument doesn't work for preseason favorites because that rewards underachieving the expectation..

Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 11-16'.

So he had the on-paper, talent favorite but weak brand prevented great teams like his opponents.. And Lebron loses to everyone - he lost to multiple 1-star teams as the favorite (Magic, Mavs)


Yep, he was the favourite because he carries so hard due to being the GOAT. Nothing to do with having the most talented team. Bron on the team? Automatic favourite due to GOAT status.



When did Lebron win a Finals while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying the scoring load)?

Lebron needed all-time scorers at sidekick to nearly match his scoring in the Finals - he couldn't win with secondary scorers like Wiggins or Pippen that average far less than him and require him to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).


Nope. Jordan excelled at one thing - scoring. LeBron excelled at everything. LeBron had to be the leading scorer, rebounder, assister, stealer and blocker to win a championship against GSW. Jordan never had to do that. He had the best defensive and offensive rebounder of all time on his team - Rodman. He had the best perimeter defender of all time on his team - Scottie Pippen. He had the most accurate 3 point shooter of all time on his team - Kerr. He had the best 6th man in the league - Kukoc. How much help does one guy need? Had all bases covered.

Jordan beat Payton and Kemp in 96. A worse version of Paul and Griffin.

It just isn't a comparison.

Its ovaaaa dawg.



Jordan's competition was trash. The only previous champion he beat was the Lakers in the finals. An old and last hope effort Lakers.
Bron? Durant, Curry, Leonard, Duncan.

Jordan's best win is against Barkley and Malone. Guys on the Harden/Westbrook level - which were also guys that Bron beat in the finals!!!

[3ba11]

The comparison is sound. 27-34 or 35, the peak of their powers.

We don't have to include the seasons Jordan lost, because he was winning in the same time frame where as LeBron took a couple of Ls due to having to carry the load more and playing better competition. Pretty straight forward, considering his output was higher, hence the higher PER, VORP and WS per 48 in the same age period, yet he lost.

Jordan had it easier, but Bron produced more, and still won 4 titles. Pretty easy comparison.

Bron>Jordan.



Yep, he was the favourite because he carries so hard due to being the GOAT. Nothing to do with having the most talented team. Bron on the team? Automatic favourite due to GOAT status.





Nope. Jordan excelled at one thing - scoring. LeBron excelled at everything. LeBron had to be the leading scorer, rebounder, assister, stealer and blocker to win a championship against GSW. Jordan never had to do that. He had the best defensive and offensive rebounder of all time on his team - Rodman. He had the best perimeter defender of all time on his team - Scottie Pippen. He had the most accurate 3 point shooter of all time on his team - Kerr. He had the best 6th man in the league - Kukoc. How much help does one guy need? Had all bases covered.

Jordan beat Payton and Kemp in 96. A worse version of Paul and Griffin.

It just isn't a comparison.

Its ovaaaa dawg.



Jordan's competition was trash. The only previous champion he beat was the Lakers in the finals. An old and last hope effort Lakers.
Bron? Durant, Curry, Leonard, Duncan.

Jordan's best win is against Barkley and Malone. Guys on the Harden/Westbrook level - which were also guys that Bron beat in the finals!!!


Jordan's peak included 89' and 90', so you're just cherry-picking Jordan's winning years versus Lebron's losing years

But here's a summary - Jordan has higher production rate based on his 13-year playoff career, or his prime (25-35) or his peak (91-93') or his winning years vs Lebron's winning years - Jordan was more dominant on winning runs and a few losing ones (89' and 90')

Regarding the supporting cast - Lebron needed more dominant and productive 2nd options while also needing a 3rd star.. Ultimately, he can't carry the scoring load while beating beat Finals teams (too ball-dominant) so he needs more star help (more scoring help)

In addition to needing more scoring help, Lebron also needs more passing help because Wade, Kyrie and Westbrook average more assists than Pippen..

Infact, Jordan averaged more assists than Pippen for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career.. He also averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff careers (85-93' vs 06-14') before the pace and space era made everyone's stats increase.. :pimp:

So you're getting destroyed on every point

Lebron needs all-time scoring help - that's more than needing hustle guys and defensive rebounders, which everyone needs, including Lebron (Love > Grant at rebounding.. Tristan too)

[plowking]

Jordan's peak included 89' and 90', so you're just cherry-picking Jordan's winning years versus Lebron's losing years

But here's a summary - Jordan has higher production rate based on his 13-year playoff career, or his prime (25-35) or his peak (91-93') or his winning years vs Lebron's winning years - Jordan was more dominant on winning runs and a few losing ones (89' and 90')

Neither of them had a shot of winning that year. The years I compared are from when they started winning - and had a shot to win - going to the finals. Bron was better at this point. The numbers are there clear as day.


Regarding the supporting cast - Lebron needed more dominant and productive 2nd options while also needing a 3rd star.. Ultimately, he can't carry the scoring load while beating beat Finals teams (too ball-dominant) so he needs more star help (more scoring help)

This is all your opinion. Pippen was scoring at a better clip than Wade was in the first 3 peat compared to Wade in 2012-2014. Even in his second 3 peat, Pippen was better from 2012-2014 Wade. Not to mention he was a better rebounder/passer, while being a better defender. Pippen has more all NBA first teams than Wade lol...

As a third option Horace Grant = Chris Bosh. One of the best defenders in the league.


Lebron needs all-time scoring help - that's more than needing hustle guys and defensive rebounders, which everyone needs, including Lebron (Love > Grant at rebounding.. Tristan too)

Jordan needed all time GOAT help everywhere.

GOAT Coach - PJ
GOAT perimeter defender - Scottie
GOAT rebouner - Rodman
Most accurate 3 point shooter ever - Kerr
6th man of the year - Kukoc

Throw in Ron Harper for fun too. A career 20/5/5 guy before Jordan and the Bulls. Just have him come in and be your 5th option.


Minny K Love was already down to 2.9rpg in his last season and falling in love with his 3 point shot more and more. Not close to the rebounder Grant was. 1.9rpg first season for the Cavs... yeah he was a rebound machine for Bron lol...

You're comparing TT to Grant? lol... I'm done. The gap between them as players is not even worth considering this discussion.

[RRR3]

3ball just logs in to get destroyed. He’s never convinced anyone of anything the only people who have ever agreed with him already hated LeBron to begin with. His posting career has been a complete failure as his whole intent is to “prove” LeBron sucks but he’s failed to convince a single person of this.

[Gohan]

Im sick of these weak ass posters hating on 3ball because hes stating his opinion, which some of his opinions are actually facts. Yall nikkas too weak. Probably getting fvcked by women using strap ons

[plowking]

Im sick of these weak ass posters hating on 3ball because hes stating his opinion, which some of his opinions are actually facts. Yall nikkas too weak. Probably getting fvcked by women using strap ons

That's some hard projection considering you're the one came in here walking like a cowboy, and I know its not because you've been in any shoot outs.

[Axe]

That's some hard projection considering you're the one came in here walking like a cowboy, and I know its not because you've been in any shoot outs.
:roll:

[Spurs m8]

3ball ethering the weaklings, as usual

[aj1987]

3ball ethering the weaklings, as usual

In comes the simp to suck his LeBron hating ilk. :roll: :roll:

Good job, Soggy m8.

[Spurs m8]

In comes the simp to suck his LeBron hating ilk. :roll: :roll:

Good job, Soggy m8.

Fuming

[aj1987]

Fuming

Yes you are, incel. :cheers:

[Johnny32]

This plow king guy is destroying everyone with facts and stats. I like it.

LeBron better peak as proven. LeBron clearly has the better career as proven. All jordan has left is fangirls his age in the media still trying to shove their biased nostalgic agendas down the publics throat.

[tpols]

Jordan's competition was trash. The only previous champion he beat was the Lakers in the finals. An old and last hope effort Lakers.
Bron? Durant, Curry, Leonard, Duncan.


LeBron has a losing playoff record against all of these players.

7-15 vs Curry
5-11 vs Duncan
5-9 vs Durant
5-7 vs Kawhi

And that was after he colluded with MVP talent. Still mostly loses.

That ain't GOAT.




Jordan had more help.


Pippen is worth more than Wade, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie? What are you smoking cuz? MJ didn't need to team hop around the league with Barkley, Robinson, and KJ to win.

[Johnny32]

LeBron has a losing playoff record against all of these players.

7-15 vs Curry
5-11 vs Duncan
5-9 vs Durant
5-7 vs Kawhi

And that was after he colluded with MVP talent. Still mostly loses.

That ain't GOAT.




Pippen is worth more than Wade, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie? What are you smoking cuz? MJ didn't need to team hop around the league with Barkley, Robinson, and KJ to win.

mj didn't need to team hop because no one else was team hopping either. championship contenders are built overnight in today's nba. in the dino era no one left their teams via free agency. pretty clear even to a mouth breathing window licker (you) which era is tougher to win in.

[red1]

Neither of them had a shot of winning that year. The years I compared are from when they started winning - and had a shot to win - going to the finals. Bron was better at this point. The numbers are there clear as day.



This is all your opinion. Pippen was scoring at a better clip than Wade was in the first 3 peat compared to Wade in 2012-2014. Even in his second 3 peat, Pippen was better from 2012-2014 Wade. Not to mention he was a better rebounder/passer, while being a better defender. Pippen has more all NBA first teams than Wade lol...

As a third option Horace Grant = Chris Bosh. One of the best defenders in the league.



Jordan needed all time GOAT help everywhere.

GOAT Coach - PJ
GOAT perimeter defender - Scottie
GOAT rebouner - Rodman
Most accurate 3 point shooter ever - Kerr
6th man of the year - Kukoc

Throw in Ron Harper for fun too. A career 20/5/5 guy before Jordan and the Bulls. Just have him come in and be your 5th option.


Minny K Love was already down to 2.9rpg in his last season and falling in love with his 3 point shot more and more. Not close to the rebounder Grant was. 1.9rpg first season for the Cavs... yeah he was a rebound machine for Bron lol...

You're comparing TT to Grant? lol... I'm done. The gap between them as players is not even worth considering this discussion.

holy shit you just choked that boy into a lifelong coma



my goodness 3ball why do you even post at this point. you're just a laughingstock for us. :oldlol:


sliding baldan down from 1b to 1c status after kareem after reading this thread.

[red1]

LeBron has a losing playoff record against all of these players.

7-15 vs Curry
5-11 vs Duncan
5-9 vs Durant
5-7 vs Kawhi

And that was after he colluded with MVP talent. Still mostly loses.

That ain't GOAT.




Pippen is worth more than Wade, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie? What are you smoking cuz? MJ didn't need to team hop around the league with Barkley, Robinson, and KJ to win.

and what were their teams?



the difference between kobe and lebron is that lebron was always the undisputed best player in the league and on every team he played on when he was in his prime.


kobe was kinda sorta one of the best.

[red1]

lebron got drafted to cleveland who did a good job, spent the money, but still never had any real talent until kyrie more than a decade after lebron was drafted there- meanwhile lebron wasted 7 years getting ganged up on by teams with 4-allstars like the spurs and celtics while he had zero allstar level players on his team.



suck my dick haters you all lost. lebron is the GOAT, 2011 arguments dont work any more. :oldlol:

[red1]

lebron











kobe

[plowking]

LeBron has a losing playoff record against all of these players.

7-15 vs Curry
5-11 vs Duncan
5-9 vs Durant
5-7 vs Kawhi

And that was after he colluded with MVP talent. Still mostly loses.

That ain't GOAT.


The first team Bron beat was OKC. It had Durant, Harden and Westbrook on it. 3 MVP winners.

The Spurs had Leonard, Duncan and Parker on it. That is 3 FMVP winners outside of playing Bron. One guy is a two time FMVP, and another is a two time MVP. That is who he was losing to... and also beat.

Curry's Warriors? The GOAT regular season team? That is who he lost to... and beat.

Durant and Curry together on a team? That is who he lost to... two MVPs. The former MVP joins the current MVP to beat LeBron James' team. That is what happened. A team built to beat him.

Best team Jordan ever beat was Barkley's Suns.



Pippen is worth more than Wade, Anthony Davis, and Kyrie? What are you smoking cuz? MJ didn't need to team hop around the league with Barkley, Robinson, and KJ to win.

I'm not even sure why Anthony Davis is being mentioned... The Lakers team that won the finals is not even that great, and honestly an opportunistic team given the right set of circumstances of the league having a down/injury plagued year. They get slapped by both finals winner either side of them. That Lakers team is shambles as a finals winner and got carried piggy back by LeBron and AD. That roster is horrendous.

I'd quite easily take Pippen + Grant, or Pippen + Rodman over AD + whoever was the 3rd best player on the Lakers.

Pippen is just as good as Wade during the time Bron played with him, if not better. Definitely played better in the playoffs than Wade did in both 3 peats. If anyone is taking Kyrie over Pippen, they're lying. You realise Pippen was making all NBA first teams over Drexler, Anfernee Hardaway, Hill, etc, right?

[RogueBorg]

The comparison is sound. 27-34 or 35, the peak of their powers.

We don't have to include the seasons Jordan lost, because he was winning in the same time frame where as LeBron took a couple of Ls due to having to carry the load more and playing better competition. Pretty straight forward, considering his output was higher, hence the higher PER, VORP and WS per 48 in the same age period, yet he lost.

Jordan had it easier, but Bron produced more, and still won 4 titles. Pretty easy comparison.

Bron>Jordan.



Yep, he was the favourite because he carries so hard due to being the GOAT. Nothing to do with having the most talented team. Bron on the team? Automatic favourite due to GOAT status.





Nope. Jordan excelled at one thing - scoring. LeBron excelled at everything. LeBron had to be the leading scorer, rebounder, assister, stealer and blocker to win a championship against GSW. Jordan never had to do that. He had the best defensive and offensive rebounder of all time on his team - Rodman. He had the best perimeter defender of all time on his team - Scottie Pippen. He had the most accurate 3 point shooter of all time on his team - Kerr. He had the best 6th man in the league - Kukoc. How much help does one guy need? Had all bases covered.

Jordan beat Payton and Kemp in 96. A worse version of Paul and Griffin.

It just isn't a comparison.

Its ovaaaa dawg.



Jordan's competition was trash. The only previous champion he beat was the Lakers in the finals. An old and last hope effort Lakers.
Bron? Durant, Curry, Leonard, Duncan.

Jordan's best win is against Barkley and Malone. Guys on the Harden/Westbrook level - which were also guys that Bron beat in the finals!!!

Hey Plowking, can you explain why Lebron has never won an MVP or made 1st Team All-Defensive since turning 30?

[RogueBorg]

Neither of them had a shot of winning that year. The years I compared are from when they started winning - and had a shot to win - going to the finals. Bron was better at this point. The numbers are there clear as day.



This is all your opinion. Pippen was scoring at a better clip than Wade was in the first 3 peat compared to Wade in 2012-2014. Even in his second 3 peat, Pippen was better from 2012-2014 Wade. Not to mention he was a better rebounder/passer, while being a better defender. Pippen has more all NBA first teams than Wade lol...

As a third option Horace Grant = Chris Bosh. One of the best defenders in the league.



Jordan needed all time GOAT help everywhere.

GOAT Coach - PJ
GOAT perimeter defender - Scottie
GOAT rebouner - Rodman
Most accurate 3 point shooter ever - Kerr
6th man of the year - Kukoc

Throw in Ron Harper for fun too. A career 20/5/5 guy before Jordan and the Bulls. Just have him come in and be your 5th option.


Minny K Love was already down to 2.9rpg in his last season and falling in love with his 3 point shot more and more. Not close to the rebounder Grant was. 1.9rpg first season for the Cavs... yeah he was a rebound machine for Bron lol...

You're comparing TT to Grant? lol... I'm done. The gap between them as players is not even worth considering this discussion.

You do realize Rodman, Kukoc, and Kerr weren’t with the Bulls during the 1st Three-Peat? Now what?

[red1]

Hey Plowking, can you explain why Lebron has never won an MVP or made 1st Team All-Defensive since turning 30?

because he already had 4 MVPs. voter fatigue. they could have given it to him nearly every year.

[red1]

You do realize Rodman, Kukoc, and Kerr weren’t with the Bulls during the 1st Three-Peat? Now what?

so? they were still on the team.

[Johnny32]

The first team Bron beat was OKC. It had Durant, Harden and Westbrook on it. 3 MVP winners.

The Spurs had Leonard, Duncan and Parker on it. That is 3 FMVP winners outside of playing Bron. One guy is a two time FMVP, and another is a two time MVP. That is who he was losing to... and also beat.

Curry's Warriors? The GOAT regular season team? That is who he lost to... and beat.

Durant and Curry together on a team? That is who he lost to... two MVPs. The former MVP joins the current MVP to beat LeBron James' team. That is what happened. A team built to beat him.

Best team Jordan ever beat was Barkley's Suns.




I'm not even sure why Anthony Davis is being mentioned... The Lakers team that won the finals is not even that great, and honestly an opportunistic team given the right set of circumstances of the league having a down/injury plagued year. They get slapped by both finals winner either side of them. That Lakers team is shambles as a finals winner and got carried piggy back by LeBron and AD. That roster is horrendous.

I'd quite easily take Pippen + Grant, or Pippen + Rodman over AD + whoever was the 3rd best player on the Lakers.

Pippen is just as good as Wade during the time Bron played with him, if not better. Definitely played better in the playoffs than Wade did in both 3 peats. If anyone is taking Kyrie over Pippen, they're lying. You realise Pippen was making all NBA first teams over Drexler, Anfernee Hardaway, Hill, etc, right?

You weren't watching in 2020 if you think it was a lebron and ad carry job. All the role players besides maybe kuz played at a very high level.

[red1]

You weren't watching in 2020 if you think it was a lebron and ad carry job. All the role players besides maybe kuz played at a very high level.

actually it was absolutely an AD and lebron carry job

roleplayers like rondo and caruso and kcp and kuz all pulled their weight but it was very much a 2-man team

[Johnny32]

Rondo, kcp, caruso, Howard and Mcgee all played great at certain times in the playoffs. It was a two star team offensively with different players stepping up each game as the third man. Defensively they were all great. That team shits all over the warriors and bucks from the past two finals. I'd bet my 7 figure bank account on it.

[Johnny32]

He also said the league was injury plagued in 2020? Lol then talks up the last two finals winners like every opp both of them faced wasn't decimated by injuries.

Guy went from destroying legoat haters with facts and stats to completely clueless about everything. Almost like his mom logged in to his account.

[red1]

Rondo, kcp, caruso, Howard and Mcgee all played great at certain times in the playoffs. It was a two star team offensively with different players stepping up each game as the third man. Defensively they were all great. That team shits all over the warriors and bucks from the past two finals. I'd bet my 7 figure bank account on it.

I actually agree that the 2020 lakers all pulled their weight, I was a fan of all of them.

rondo kcp and caruso when they played with lebron, they did very well. even Kuz tried his hardest.


we're just comparing them to better and deeper teams. a lot of the best teams all-time had star level third options, 2020 lakers are very talented up top with lebron and AD but compared to the all-time teams they fall a cliff after their best two and are very top-heavy.

[red1]

The first team Bron beat was OKC. It had Durant, Harden and Westbrook on it. 3 MVP winners.

The Spurs had Leonard, Duncan and Parker on it. That is 3 FMVP winners outside of playing Bron. One guy is a two time FMVP, and another is a two time MVP. That is who he was losing to... and also beat.

Curry's Warriors? The GOAT regular season team? That is who he lost to... and beat.

Durant and Curry together on a team? That is who he lost to... two MVPs. The former MVP joins the current MVP to beat LeBron James' team. That is what happened. A team built to beat him.

Best team Jordan ever beat was Barkley's Suns.




I'm not even sure why Anthony Davis is being mentioned... The Lakers team that won the finals is not even that great, and honestly an opportunistic team given the right set of circumstances of the league having a down/injury plagued year. They get slapped by both finals winner either side of them. That Lakers team is shambles as a finals winner and got carried piggy back by LeBron and AD. That roster is horrendous.

I'd quite easily take Pippen + Grant, or Pippen + Rodman over AD + whoever was the 3rd best player on the Lakers.

Pippen is just as good as Wade during the time Bron played with him, if not better. Definitely played better in the playoffs than Wade did in both 3 peats. If anyone is taking Kyrie over Pippen, they're lying. You realise Pippen was making all NBA first teams over Drexler, Anfernee Hardaway, Hill, etc, right?

the legacy is aging like fine wine.


okc squad was stacked in hindsight - back then we just said they were kids and it doesnt count

spurs squad was stacked in hindsight - back then we just said they old and it doesnt count
warriors are now a confirmed dynasty

2016 was another finals MVP against a now confirmed dynasty

and then in 2020 an then 35-year old lebron was still the best player in the world and carried his third franchise to a ring


undisputed best player in the world from 2012-2018 plus 2020
arguable best player in the world from 2009 - now

4 finals MVPs despite playing against some of the most stacked teams of all-time (underdog in 7/10 finals) and despite constant injuries to teammates while rivals like jordan never had a single injury to his cast.


even kobe dealt with injury bullshit when the celtics were feasting on radmanovic and whatever scrubs they trotted out that 2008 season after bynum and ariza went down

lbj will always be the only finals MVP in nba history over a 70-win team and the only player to win a finals MVP on 3 different franchises



he's GOATed




the discussion is over.

[RogueBorg]

so? they were still on the team.

Not from ‘90-93 genius, absolutely destroying your argument.

[red1]

Not from ‘90-93 genius, absolutely destroying your argument.

Im not sure what that argument was Im just saying his point of having that talent on HIS team was fair.


the only reason we have this stacked argument is because jordan fans talked about team-hopping and stacked teams for 15 years now


while the reality is that jordan had the most stacked team of his era (they won 55-games without him and 47 games the next year) while playing dogshit perimeter competition



I have no doubt that jordan would cook kawhi - I'd just like to see him going up against a long-armed defensive beast like that. or against a long-armed iggy or kd.


instead that defensive beast was on his own team - playing against tough but unathletic white boys like stockton and hornacek. :roll:

[RogueBorg]

because he already had 4 MVPs. voter fatigue. they could have given it to him nearly every year.
I would buy voter fatigue for 2014 and 15, but no way for 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, plenty of time had passed.
I see you’re stumped about the All-Defensive teams by just ignoring it. It’s ok, there is no excuse for it. But I’ll remind you Jordan won 2 MVP’s in his 30’s and made All-Defensive 1st-Team every single season in his 30’s.

Lebron is a Jack of all Trades, master of none. He’s good, he’s just not the best at anything.

[red1]

I would buy voter fatigue for 2014 and 15, but no way for 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, plenty of time had passed.
I see you’re stumped about the All-Defensive teams by just ignoring it. It’s ok, there is no excuse for it. But I’ll remind you Jordan won 2 MVP’s in his 30’s and made All-Defensive 1st-Team every single season in his 30’s.

Lebron is a Jack of all Trades, master of none. He’s good, he’s just not the best at anything.

I never even read the defensive teams. and arguing MVPs is pointless. they could honestly give it to him every year and it wouldnt be a stretch. and we never argue that lebron is the best defender because we know he carries such a heavy load on offense.

he manufactures more points for his team than any NBA player in history when you combine the points assists and turnovers. you can tell by looking at the on-off stats as well because his teams are always elite with him on the court and fall off when he sits - a very common theme for elite offensive players

on specific switches and possessions he is absolutely a lockdown defender and a very tough player to score on with his size and speed and IQ.


he is absolutely the best at many things. skip says he has the highest IQ in the league and is the GOAT at driving to the rim in halfcourt and in full court settings. he's also the best passer and playmaker in the league alongside chris paul. and now in his old age he has a super reliable fadeaway and jumpshot overall.


and more importantly, the GOAT overall.

[RogueBorg]

Starting SG’s 1992-1993
Michael Jordan HOF
Mitch Richmond HOF
Joe Dumars HOF
Reggie Miller HOF
Clyde Drexler HOF
Drazen Petrovic HOF
Nick Anderson
Reggie Lewis
Kendall Gill
Dale Ellis
Ron Harper
Byron Scott
Steve Smith
Vernon Maxwell
Latrell Sprewell
Stacey Augmon
Doug West
Hersey Hawkins
Jeff Malone
Dan Majerle
John Starks
Ricky Pierce
Craig Ehlo
Todd Day
Rex Chapman
Walter Bond
Mark Macon

[red1]

Starting SG’s 1992-1993
Michael Jordan HOF
Mitch Richmond HOF
Joe Dumars HOF
Reggie Miller HOF
Clyde Drexler HOF
Drazen Petrovic HOF
Nick Anderson
Reggie Lewis
Kendall Gill
Dale Ellis
Ron Harper
Byron Scott
Steve Smith
Vernon Maxwell
Latrell Sprewell
Stacey Augmon
Doug West
Hersey Hawkins
Jeff Malone
Dan Majerle
John Starks
Ricky Pierce
Craig Ehlo
Todd Day
Rex Chapman
Walter Bond
Mark Macon
pippen aka the best perimeter defender in the league alongside jordan, pippen guarded most of them :confusedshrug:


no disrespect to any of these players lebron would feast on all of them due to the size advantage.


too big for guards and too fast for bigs.

[RogueBorg]

I never even read the defensive teams. and arguing MVPs is pointless. they could honestly give it to him every year and it wouldnt be a stretch. and we never argue that lebron is the best defender because we know he carries such a heavy load on offense.

he manufactures more points for his team than any NBA player in history when you combine the points assists and turnovers. you can tell by looking at the on-off stats as well because his teams are always elite with him on the court and fall off when he sits - a very common theme for elite offensive players

on specific switches and possessions he is absolutely a lockdown defender and a very tough player to score on with his size and speed and IQ.


he is absolutely the best at many things. skip says he has the highest IQ in the league and is the GOAT at driving to the rim in halfcourt and in full court settings. he's also the best passer and playmaker in the league alongside chris paul. and now in his old age he has a super reliable fadeaway and jumpshot overall.


and more importantly, the GOAT overall.

I guarantee if Lebron made the All-Defensive Teams every year and was winning MVP’s you’d be throwing it out there. You’re ignoring it because it shows a glaring weakness in Lebrons resume.

[RogueBorg]

pippen aka the best perimeter defender in the league alongside jordan, pippen guarded most of them :confusedshrug:


no disrespect to any of these players lebron would feast on all of them due to the size advantage.


too big for guards and too fast for bigs.

The point of listing them was not whether Lebron would feast on them or not, of course Lebron was head and shoulders over these guys. These players wouldn’t guard Lebron, that would fall to their small forward or power forward teammates. The point of the list was to show Jordan’s competition at SG was loaded with good to HOF level players in spite of the revisionist history you know nothings want to spew forth.

[Bacchus]

When Lebron won his second championship he had a team with 24 combined All-Star Games at that time. (Bosh 6, Allen 10, Wade 8)
When Jordan won his second championship he had a team with 3 combined All-Star Games. (Cartwright 1, Pippen 2)

[FKAri]

When Lebron won his second championship he had a team with 24 combined All-Star Games at that time. (Bosh 6, Allen 10, Wade 8)
When Jordan won his second championship he had a team with 3 combined All-Star Games. (Cartwright 1, Pippen 2)

MJ got swept with 14 time all-star George Gervin on his team. Meanwhile Lebron beat a 73 win team with a team that ZERO all-stars!

Holy shit! These stats are so meaningful! LeGOAT!

[Johnny32]

When Lebron won his second championship he had a team with 24 combined All-Star Games at that time. (Bosh 6, Allen 10, Wade 8)
When Jordan won his second championship he had a team with 3 combined All-Star Games. (Cartwright 1, Pippen 2)

all stars or not (allen was 37 tardboy) duh bulls were a team. remember this?

The Chicago Bulls found themselves in deep trouble in Game 6 of the 1992 NBA Finals. Chicago trailed the Portland Trail Blazers by double digits heading into the fourth quarter and, without some heroics from Michael Jordan, seemed destined to play in a Game 7. Only, Jordan wasn’t anywhere to be found as the final period began.

https://www.sportscasting.com/michael-jordan-watched-replacement-lead-bulls-critical-run-1992-nba-finals/

pippen was also arguably the second best player in the series. same for 91 finals.

[8Ball]

I already proved this.

LeBron defeated way better teams than Jordan ever did in the finals.

Jordan doesn't have a GOAT 2016 Warriors 73-9 team on his defeated resume.

[8Ball]

Magic was never as good of a player as Bron.

[RogueBorg]

MJ got swept with 14 time all-star George Gervin on his team.

And Lebron missed the play-in with these future Hall of Famers on his team;
10x All-star Carmelo Anthony 75th anniversary team
9x All-Star Russell Westbrook 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Anthony Davis 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Dwight Howard 100th anniversary team

Good job retard.

[RogueBorg]

Magic was never as good of a player as Bron.

He was better.

There's one guy in the Top 10 with a losing record in the Finals, care to guess who?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/d6/86/24d6866dac718977dea957bea59a8295.gif

[8Ball]

Bron is better than Magic at just about everything except passing, which Bron is only slightly inferior to.

Same as Jordan to Bron. Bron is just better at playing basketball than Jordan.


Magic also has no longevity, only about 10 all-nba seasons where Bron has 18 all-nba seasons.

[FKAri]

And Lebron missed the play-in with these future Hall of Famers on his team;
10x All-star Carmelo Anthony 75th anniversary team
9x All-Star Russell Westbrook 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Anthony Davis 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Dwight Howard 100th anniversary team

Good job retard.

I thought I was being sarcastic. Were you too?

[3ba11]

And Lebron missed the play-in with these future Hall of Famers on his team;
10x All-star Carmelo Anthony 75th anniversary team
9x All-Star Russell Westbrook 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Anthony Davis 75th anniversary team
8x All-Star Dwight Howard 100th anniversary team

Good job retard.


No one in history underachieved the expectation more than Lebron because his preseason favorites fell to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16'), except the Ray Allen miracle.. This was after he lost as the 1 seed in 09' and 10'.. His three straight losses as the favorite from 09-11' scared Vegas into making Westbrick the favorite in 2012 over Lebron's super-team.

These underachievements are capped off by Lebron's move West where he was lottery with Ingram/Kuzma/Ball/Caruso and missed play-in with the preseason favorite in 22' (goat underachievement and empty stats)

Ultimately, only a bad brand of ball can make favored talent underachieve, so Lebron's big man ball-dominance isn't a great brand of ball.. i.e. low assist teams, inferior ball movement, never a #1 offense (ortg), weak teammate fits & chemistry aka can't win organically (must be a talent-based winner, team-hopper, all-star team strategy)

[Johnny32]

this is how desperate the greatness of a 37 yr old has made them lol. pretending westbrook is a superstar. pretending howard/melo are anywhere close to all-star level in 2022. all desperate narratives from the most insecure fanbases in sports history...jordone and kobe fangirls.

[3ba11]

this is how desperate the greatness of a 37 yr old has made them lol. pretending westbrook is a superstar. pretending howard/melo are anywhere close to all-star level in 2022. all desperate narratives from the most insecure fanbases in sports history...jordone and kobe fangirls.


How come Lebron had one of the worst teams in the league with Westbrook's 19/7/7, while MJ three-peat with Pippen getting those numbers (less actually), or Curry won this year with Wiggins getting less

It's called brand of ball - on-ball/off-ball combo players like Curry/MJ fit with any teammate or system, so young players can grow and the team wins organically with chemistry.. Otoh, Lebron's ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning.. all-star team strategy)

[Johnny32]

How come Lebron had one of the worst teams in the league with Westbrook's 19/7/7, while MJ three-peat with Pippen getting those numbers (less actually), or Curry won this year with Wiggins getting less

It's called brand of ball - on-ball/off-ball combo players like Curry/MJ fit with any teammate or system, so young players can grow and the team wins organically with chemistry.. Otoh, Lebron's ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning.. all-star team strategy)

i think curry was arguably the 5th best player on his own team in gm 5 of the finals in a 2-2 series. didn't matter, his team won by 10 anyway. all i really need to know about his supporting cast or lack of.

[Johnny32]

and i couldn't care less about stats from the offensively challenged 90s compared to today. compare jordone's help to his opponents help. anything else is pointless.

[3ba11]

i think curry was arguably the 5th best player on his own team in gm 5 of the finals in a 2-2 series. didn't matter, his team won by 10 anyway. all i really need to know about his supporting cast or lack of.


No you aren't seeing that Curry did exactly what Jordan did

In Game 4 of the 93' ECF, Jordan dropped 54 - this forced NY to throw the kitchen sink at him with double-teams in Game 5

The Bulls knew this - they knew that NY would react this way in Game 5, so Jordan's Game 4 had taken control of the series - Chicago had the game-planning edge for the remainder of the series.

Curry did the same thing in Game 4 of the Finals.. Boston didn't necessarily double him incessantly but the Warriors were able to anticipate the changes and get other guys off.. It's a testament to their chemistry and brand of ball that other guys have the CAPACITY to step up - we saw the opposite of that with the 14' Heat when Bosh couldn't step up for Wade because he'd been reduced to spot-up shooter.

[Johnny32]

No you aren't seeing that Curry did exactly what Jordan did

In Game 4 of the 93' ECF, Jordan dropped 54 - this forced NY to throw the kitchen sink at him with double-teams in Game 5

The Bulls knew this - they knew that NY would react this way in Game 5, so Jordan's Game 4 infact took control of the series by giving Chicago the game-planning edge for the remainder of the series.

Curry did the same thing in Game 4 of the Finals.. Boston didn't necessarily double him incessantly but the Warriors were able to anticipate the changes and get other guys off.. It's a testament to their chemistry and brand of ball that other guys have the CAPACITY to step up - we saw the opposite of that with the 14' Heat when Bosh couldn't step up for Wade because he'd been reduced to spot-up shooter.

curry still managed to shoot 22 times with the kitchen sink being thrown at him. impressive stuff.

wiggins - 26 points on 23 fga
curry - 16 points on 22 fga
klay - 21 ppg on 14 fga
gp2 - 15 points on 8 fga
poole - 14 points on 8 fga

[3ba11]

curry still managed to shoot 22 times with the kitchen sink being thrown at him. impressive stuff.

wiggins - 26 points on 23 fga
curry - 16 points on 22 fga
klay - 21 ppg on 14 fga
gp2 - 15 points on 8 fga
poole - 14 points on 8 fga


Yes the extra attention caused Curry to shoot poorly

Curry had pulled an MJ in Game 4, which took control of the series in numerous ways and on many levels - this includes allowing the Warriors to be a step ahead strategically, aka knowing the Celtics must react to Steph's 43

[Axe]

He was better.

There's one guy in the Top 10 with a losing record in the Finals, care to guess who?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/d6/86/24d6866dac718977dea957bea59a8295.gif
Who told you this? Breitbart?

[kawhileonard2]

Magic was never as good of a player as Bron.

Magic has always been better. Magic won 5 titles for the franchise that drafted him. Lebron got 1 and needed a suspension.

[red1]

Magic has always been better. Magic won 5 titles for the franchise that drafted him. Lebron got 1 and needed a suspension.

73-win finals MVP
leading in all-stats. points blocks assists rebounds steals. both teams.
in a 3-1 finals comeback.



yeah he's the GOAT. :oldlol:

[bizil]

Bron is like a freak athletic Magic in the physique of Karl Malone. Bron is pass first. BUT not as pass first as Magic was. Bron's mentality was more like the Big O. Pass first triple double floor generals who average 27-30 points on top of it. Only difference is Bron is a point forward who also has played plenty of PG in his career. While Magic and Oscar's primary position was PG.

So my point is Bron took what Magic was doing to the next level. Peak-prime wise Bron holds the edge. Longevity being great Bron holds the edge. Overall career averages, Bron's are more impressive. Bron's career numbers are the most impressive of ALL TIME PERIOD! Just like Magic was the face of the league at one point, Bron was in that slot too.

Only case Magic has is the ring count. That's NOT ENOUGH to slot him over Bron on the GOAT chart. But it's NOT LIKE Magic is WAYYY behind Bron though either. Mt. Rushmore of Basketball in many people's eyes is MJ, Bron, Kareem, and Magic. The fact Magic is up there after retiring at 32 (for all intents and purposes) PROVES how great he was!

[And1AllDay]

how does mikes fewer titles in twice as many seasons put him over b russell

[Baller789]

how does mikes fewer titles in twice as many seasons put him over b russell

Why should we listen to a fat loser in a basement with a dozen alts?

[plowking]

Just a reminder everyone:

From their first title to their last for both Bron and Jordan - Bron outperformed Michael in the playoffs:

Ages 27-35 Bron: 29.6 PER / WS PER 48 - .259 / 10.4 BPM / 21 VORP
Ages 27-34 MJ: 28.1 PER / WS PER 38 - .258 / 10.6 BPM / 16 VORP

Did all of that on 4% less usage! Yikes for Mike. In the prime of their careers, Bron was clearly ahead and more valuable. Mike won 6, Bron won 4. Only reason is, Mike had more help and went up against worst competition.

But just goes to show, at the highest level - which is the playoffs, Bron shone a little bit brighter when both were at the peak of their powers (winning titles).


Bron>MJ.

[sdot_thadon]

What a massacre of a thread, 3ball....bruh.....I feel bad for you.

[red1]

Just a reminder everyone:

From their first title to their last for both Bron and Jordan - Bron outperformed Michael in the playoffs:

Ages 27-35 Bron: 29.6 PER / WS PER 48 - .259 / 10.4 BPM / 21 VORP
Ages 27-34 MJ: 28.1 PER / WS PER 38 - .258 / 10.6 BPM / 16 VORP

Did all of that on 4% less usage! Yikes for Mike. In the prime of their careers, Bron was clearly ahead and more valuable. Mike won 6, Bron won 4. Only reason is, Mike had more help and went up against worst competition.

But just goes to show, at the highest level - which is the playoffs, Bron shone a little bit brighter when both were at the peak of their powers (winning titles).


Bron>MJ.

lebron is 2-0 in game 7 of the NBA finals over the spurs and warriors


with 2 monster performances each time.



curry never got a single fair one over lebron - 2015 love and kyrie were down and the other two were handed to curry with the most stacked team of all-time - no finals MVPs in any of those.


meanwhile lebron has finals MVPs over both curry and duncan. :oldlol:

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/KNvS4Jh/BDFDBB00-C1-C2-4-D31-AD3-D-1-F5337-D84-E5-B.jpg (https://ibb.co/k3CvbtB)

https://i.ibb.co/CV0QT4p/B2224417-D910-4-F66-A294-6-BD3-A3555857.jpg (https://ibb.co/r5yH1qK)

https://i.ibb.co/nsG405N/1-AD6-D54-A-CB86-4-D3-B-9-F77-2-BE8268-C3313.jpg (https://ibb.co/wNk8LxF)

https://i.ibb.co/VphDLw4/D0-F16-CC3-B99-E-420-A-959-D-2-A97-E1-A7-C3-CA.gif (https://imgbb.com/)