Do not make a trade with Danny Ainge. Ever.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jazz receive:

• Malik Beasley
• Patrick Beverley
• Leandro Bolmaro
• Walker Kessler (No. 22 pick in 2022 Draft)
• Jarred Vanderbilt
• 2023 first-round pick
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
• 2029 first-round pick

Rudy Gobert is a good player but he just got traded for a basketball team. Nets now think they can get the moon for KD. And they can... if they hire Danny Ainge.

Speaking of Ainge and the Nets, some years ago Brooklyn made a trade to "win now" with the Celtics back when Ainge was running the Green. The deal won them one Playoff series win and about 9 years later they saw their Durant/Irving Dynasty destroyed by two of the many picks the deal cost them.

But not to be outdone in the Atlantic division Philly traded the pick that became Jayson Tatum plus another first round pick for the complexly confusing Markelle Fultz bust story. Philly has since seen their season end at Tatum's hands twice.

All Ainge moves are not great. Some don't work out at all. But these three trades all should have gotten more than one team exec fired.

I didn't say a lot about it back when he was running the Celtics but now that he's gone it's time to soak up: do not make trades with Danny Ainge. Ever. Great job so far Mr. Brad Steven's but don't think for a second that just because you're friends he wouldn't do it to you too.

[AirBonner]

Ainge went all in on minny. No lube no call back. Absolutely brutal.

[post]

the numbers say gobert is an elite player top 5-10 in the nba

the average nba gm probably doesn't care whether the average nba fan understands or accepts this

[Real Men Wear Green]

the numbers say gobert is an elite player top 5-10 in the nba

the average nba gm probably doesn't care whether the average nba fan understands or accepts this

If you think Gobert is a top 5 player you aren't just an average idiot.

[Im Still Ballin]

I think it'll work out for both parties. Minnesota has a chance to have sustained playoff success for the first time in franchise history. That's honestly worth the price they paid. They might even get a championship if things go their way. Might not be next season, but sometime in the next four or five years.

[King Baron]

Imo, it was a pretty good trade for the Wolves. Gobert and Towns is a great defensive frontline and you have a rising superstar in Edwards from the perimeter. I'm not a big believer in amassing picks over trades and Free agency. But I do think Danny Ainge is a great gm, he's always looking at the long term picture.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think it'll work out for both parties. Minnesota has a chance to have sustained playoff success for the first time in franchise history. That's honestly worth the price they paid. They might even get a championship if things go their way. Might not be next season, but sometime in the next four or five years.

With Edwards and Towns they should have been a perennial playoff team regardless. They have damaged their long term prospects by costing themselves 6 first round picks (including this year's). Over time they will struggle with depth and they will not get the most out of Gobert's presence because he will be a shotblocker surrounded by average or bad defenders. Opposing teams will make him switch or to guards and throw out jumps hooting bigs to get him out of position and most of the guys around him won't consistently pick up the slack. He needs Go9d defenders around him to anchor a great defensive squad. They don't have that and without picks can't put such a team together without trading one of their stars.

[Im Still Ballin]

With Edwards and Towns they should have been a perennial playoff team regardless. They have damaged their long term prospects by costing themselves 6 first round picks (including this year's). Over time they will struggle with depth and they will not get the most out of Gobert's presence because he will be a shotblocker surrounded by average or bad defenders. Opposing teams will make him switch or to guards and throw out jumps hooting bigs to get him out of position and most of the guys around him won't consistently pick up the slack. He needs Go9d defenders around him to anchor a great defensive squad. They don't have that and without picks can't put such a team together without trading one of their stars.

Sure, those points are all realistic possibilities. I'm not the biggest expert on Minnesota's roster; I have only a rudimentary feel for the rotation of players. FireDavidKahn is the Timberwolves guy on here, so I'll wait for his reply to your post.

[John8204]

Russell (PG) (26)
Towns (PF) (26)
Edwards (SG) (20)
Gobert (C) (30)
Prince (SF) (28)

You have a starting five under 30 I can see why you wouldn't need the draft. Now is it going to work..we just saw how Wiggins and Butler won without you so who knows what Gobert is going to do with team chemistry but it's an intriguing team.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think it'll work out for both parties. Minnesota has a chance to have sustained playoff success for the first time in franchise history. That's honestly worth the price they paid. They might even get a championship if things go their way. Might not be next season, but sometime in the next four or five years.

It... definitely wont be next season.

One of the clearest patterns in the NBA is that veteran teams typically win chips. There can be exceptions, but veterans winning is the norm.

I personally dont expect Towns and Edwards to have the maturity to compete for a title for at least another 2-3 years. Minny also needs to add quality experienced role players in that time.

They’ll be a better team this year, I think thats pretty certain. But contender? Definitely dont see that. They need to hope Toody’s window stays open long enough to still be an effective player when KAT and ANT are at their professional peaks, which is still probably a few years out.

This year will be important in establishing Minny as a team with the kind of trajectory that veteran role players will wanna sign on to compete with. But... if they actually make an NBA finals this year or next year, Ill eat my hat for sure. I think it’s very unlikely.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Russell (PG) (26)
Towns (PF) (26)
Edwards (SG) (20)
Gobert (C) (30)
Prince (SF) (28)

You have a starting five under 30 I can see why you wouldn't need the draft. Now is it going to work..we just saw how Wiggins and Butler won without you so who knows what Gobert is going to do with team chemistry but it's an intriguing team.

A team being young doesn't mean picks aren't valuable. You don't spend a million on a Prius just because you're rich.

[Im Still Ballin]

It... definitely wont be next season.

One of the clearest patterns in the NBA is that veteran teams typically win chips. There can be exceptions, but veterans winning is the norm.

I personally dont expect Towns and Edwards to have the maturity to compete for a title for at least another 2-3 years. Minny also needs to add quality experienced role players in that time.

They’ll be a better team this year, I think thats pretty certain. But contender? Definitely dont see that. They need to hope Toody’s window stays open long enough to still be an effective player when KAT and ANT are at their professional peaks, which is still probably a few years out.

This year will be important in establishing Minny as a team with the kind of trajectory that veteran role players will wanna sign on to compete with. But... if they actually make an NBA finals this year or next year, Ill eat my hat for sure. I think it’s very unlikely.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I think it's as much about Minnesota maturing as it is about GSW and LeBron ageing out of contention. There's going to be a window of opportunity for a team in 3-5 years' time. Minnesota could sneak in, '04 Pistons/'11 Mavericks style.

[RRR3]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I think it's as much about Minnesota maturing as it is about GSW and LeBron ageing out of contention. There's going to be a window of opportunity for a team in 3-5 years' time. Minnesota could sneak in, '04 Pistons/'11 Mavericks style.
LeBron hasn’t aged out of contention so much as Disasterbrook prevents him from competing

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBron hasn’t aged out of contention so much as Disasterbrook prevents him from competing

Yeah, I was saying that LeBron will age out of contention within the next 3-5 years. If this Kyrie trade goes down, shit will get real again.

[warriorfan]

A team being young doesn't mean picks aren't valuable. You don't spend a million on a Prius just because you're rich.

Gobert is not a Prius.

[post]

If you think Gobert is a top 5 player you aren't just an average idiot.

https://i.ibb.co/vZ7QWB4/9RgrLwK.jpg

[Gohan]

https://i.ibb.co/vZ7QWB4/9RgrLwK.jpg

I had to laugh:roll:

[fsvr54]

https://i.ibb.co/vZ7QWB4/9RgrLwK.jpg

:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

Jazz receive:

• Malik Beasley
• Patrick Beverley
• Leandro Bolmaro
• Walker Kessler (No. 22 pick in 2022 Draft)
• Jarred Vanderbilt
• 2023 first-round pick
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
• 2029 first-round pick

Rudy Gobert is a good player but he just got traded for a basketball team. Nets now think they can get the moon for KD. And they can... if they hire Danny Ainge.

Speaking of Ainge and the Nets, some years ago Brooklyn made a trade to "win now" with the Celtics back when Ainge was running the Green. The deal won them one Playoff series win and about 9 years later they saw their Durant/Irving Dynasty destroyed by two of the many picks the deal cost them.

But not to be outdone in the Atlantic division Philly traded the pick that became Jayson Tatum plus another first round pick for the complexly confusing Markelle Fultz bust story. Philly has since seen their season end at Tatum's hands twice.

All Ainge moves are not great. Some don't work out at all. But these three trades all should have gotten more than one team exec fired.

I didn't say a lot about it back when he was running the Celtics but now that he's gone it's time to soak up: do not make trades with Danny Ainge. Ever. Great job so far Mr. Brad Steven's but don't think for a second that just because you're friends he wouldn't do it to you too.

Minnesota became one of the best teams in the league. Jazz became one of the worst. Maybe they'll get someone worth him out of it someday?

[Spurs m8]

the numbers say gobert is an elite player top 5-10 in the nba

the average nba gm probably doesn't care whether the average nba fan understands or accepts this

My god, you can't be this stupid

[Real Men Wear Green]

Minnesota became one of the best teams in the league. Jazz became one of the worst. Maybe they'll get someone worth him out of it someday?

I don't see how Minnie is now on par with the Warriors. They threw one good defender into the mix with a bunch of guys that are average defensively at best. One good defender doesn't make an overall defense good. And in the opposite end of the floor Gobert is only a serious scoring threat in the paint. Not a particularly good complimentary piece to Towns. They have to dominate the boards and d put some more defenders out there to support Gobert for this to be a major improvement. Meanwhile they have given up a starting five plus sixth man worth of draft capital. Last time minute have to draft talent like this it ruined the Garnett era.

[90sgoat]

I have a hard time seeing how Gobert and Towns can actually co-exist. I guess on paper, Towns will chuck 8 three pointers a game and Rudy will brick layins, but in reality these big men can't co-exist.

They're both centers even if Towns likes to shoot 3s and they'll both get in each other's way, particularly on defense.

This will end badly, probably with Towns being traded, but maybe that was the plan all along. Towns seems to be a primadonna, a more stable DeMarcus Cousins.

Ant + Gobert could be a good duo, basically a better Utah situation and they can probably get a lot of good players for Towns.

I'm calling it now, Towns gets traded at the deadline.

[Im Still Ballin]

I have a hard time seeing how Gobert and Towns can actually co-exist. I guess on paper, Towns will chuck 8 three pointers a game and Rudy will brick layins, but in reality these big men can't co-exist.

They're both centers even if Towns likes to shoot 3s and they'll both get in each other's way, particularly on defense.

This will end badly, probably with Towns being traded, but maybe that was the plan all along. Towns seems to be a primadonna, a more stable DeMarcus Cousins.

Ant + Gobert could be a good duo, basically a better Utah situation and they can probably get a lot of good players for Towns.

I'm calling it now, Towns gets traded at the deadline.

Come on man. Really? I think you'll be surprised at the fit. Towns was surprisingly mobile defending the perimeter this season.

[Xiao Yao You]

I don't see how Minnie is now on par with the Warriors. They threw one good defender into the mix with a bunch of guys that are average defensively at best. One good defender doesn't make an overall defense good. And in the opposite end of the floor Gobert is only a serious scoring threat in the paint. Not a particularly good complimentary piece to Towns. They have to dominate the boards and d put some more defenders out there to support Gobert for this to be a major improvement. Meanwhile they have given up a starting five plus sixth man worth of draft capital. Last time minute have to draft talent like this it ruined the Garnett era.

Who said they were on par with the champs? Right now they look like top 3 in the west though. 1 elite defender made the Jazz D good. Timberwolves weren't far behind the Jazz last year. That was mostly because Gobert missed games but you add the guy carrying the Jazz to a team that was almost as good as the Jazz they get much better. Perfect fit offensively. No reason they won't dominate the boards. Jazz usually did with just 2 guys getting most of the boards

[Xiao Yao You]

I have a hard time seeing how Gobert and Towns can actually co-exist. I guess on paper, Towns will chuck 8 three pointers a game and Rudy will brick layins, but in reality these big men can't co-exist.

They're both centers even if Towns likes to shoot 3s and they'll both get in each other's way, particularly on defense.

This will end badly, probably with Towns being traded, but maybe that was the plan all along. Towns seems to be a primadonna, a more stable DeMarcus Cousins.

Ant + Gobert could be a good duo, basically a better Utah situation and they can probably get a lot of good players for Towns.

I'm calling it now, Towns gets traded at the deadline.

Sure an elite finisher will be throwing up bricks :lol

[Axe]

Hopefully, he leads the wolves to a championship.

[DMAVS41]

This is one of those cases where I think both sides win.

I'm not saying it is the best trade ever for Minny or that there isn't risk...of course there is, but the level of analysis I've seen in terms of the hating it for the Minny side is shallow imo. The Wolves just went 30 years while doing nothing. They've won 2 playoff series that I can think in their history...hell, they might be the only two.

And they should just sit around and wait 5 years hoping that ANT turns into something significantly better and then maximize his prime? I don't buy it...they got Gobert without really hurting the team that showed real signs last year...yes, they gave up future assets, but my god...when you go 30 years without being relevant...and trying to build through the draft...and you know you aren't landing big time free agents...

That is about the most defensible swing for the fences move one could make imo.

[Axe]

the numbers say gobert is an elite player top 5-10 in the nba

the average nba gm probably doesn't care whether the average nba fan understands or accepts this
Is he going to be better than joker?

[post]

My god, you can't be this stupid

take it up with the ws48 people who have his career 9th all time in nba history

[post]

Is he going to be better than joker?

everyone is better than joker

he's just a fat white guy didn't you hear

[AirBonner]

Imo, it was a pretty good trade for the Wolves. Gobert and Towns is a great defensive frontline and you have a rising superstar in Edwards from the perimeter. I'm not a big believer in amassing picks over trades and Free agency. But I do think Danny Ainge is a great gm, he's always looking at the long term picture.
You don’t believe in picks? Celtics went to the finals on the backs of Brooklyn thanks to their picks lol

[DMAVS41]

You don’t believe in picks? Celtics went to the finals on the backs of Brooklyn thanks to their picks lol

And how have the Wolves down with picks for the last 30 years?

Nothing is a lock...the picks always sound better because the potential is there...it's exciting...but it isn't a lock for anything....nothing is.

[AirBonner]

And how have the Wolves down with picks for the last 30 years?

Nothing is a lock...the picks always sound better because the potential is there...it's exciting...but it isn't a lock for anything....nothing is.

You would think after 30 years the wolves would have better drafting strategy lol

[DMAVS41]

You would think after 30 years the wolves would have better drafting strategy lol

Perhaps...or maybe it is really really really hard and we can understand why a team with a solid core wants to just say "**** it"...lets get a known commodity still in his prime.

Especially with their history and the fact that they aren't a free agent destination...they have a small window here where they can make a move like this and add players next summer once Russell comes off the books.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Who said they were on par with the champs? Right now they look like top 3 in the west though. 1 elite defender made the Jazz D good. Timberwolves weren't far behind the Jazz last year. That was mostly because Gobert missed games but you add the guy carrying the Jazz to a team that was almost as good as the Jazz they get much better. Perfect fit offensively. No reason they won't dominate the boards. Jazz usually did with just 2 guys getting most of the boards

Your words were "became one of the best teams in the league. " that means they can compete with the best team in the league doesn't it? And no that is not a perfect fit on offense. Towns is a lot like Embiid on offense a big that is at his best scoring in the paint but with the ability to shoot from distance. A guy like that is at his best when he is surrounded by shooters. Gobert is not a particularly good shooter. They could be dominant on the glass but they will struggle with quicker teams.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is one of those cases where I think both sides win.

I'm not saying it is the best trade ever for Minny or that there isn't risk...of course there is, but the level of analysis I've seen in terms of the hating it for the Minny side is shallow imo. The Wolves just went 30 years while doing nothing. They've won 2 playoff series that I can think in their history...hell, they might be the only two.

And they should just sit around and wait 5 years hoping that ANT turns into something significantly better and then maximize his prime? I don't buy it...they got Gobert without really hurting the team that showed real signs last year...yes, they gave up future assets, but my god...when you go 30 years without being relevant...and trying to build through the draft...and you know you aren't landing big time free agents...

That is about the most defensible swing for the fences move one could make imo.

The best player they had over the last 30 years (ever, really) was Kevin Garnett. They had a long period of time between Marbury leaving and the Cassell and Sprewell days where they couldn't get anything done in spite of having one of the best players in the league. The main reason for the drought was the punishment they got for signing Joe Smith to an illegal deal. The punishment was then losing first round picks for five straight years. That made it harder to either bring in new talent or trade for a second star... impossible really.

This trade is actually a bigger punishment than what they got for the Joe Smith deal by one first round pick and Patrick Beverly... some of those other players could be useful too but I don't know much about them just being honest.

[DMAVS41]

The best player they had over the last 30 years (ever, really) was Kevin Garnett. They had a long period of time between Marbury leaving and the Cassell and Sprewell days where they couldn't get anything done in spite of having one of the best players in the league. The main reason for the drought was the punishment they got for signing Joe Smith to an illegal deal. The punishment was then losing first round picks for five straight years. That made it harder to either bring in new talent or trade for a second star... impossible really.

This trade is actually a bigger punishment than what they got for the Joe Smith deal by one first round pick and Patrick Beverly... some of those other players could be useful too but I don't know much about them just being honest.

The way you talk about Kevin Garnett being their best player ever is as if you don't think KG is one of the very best players of all time...which he clearly is.

Yes, there are some reasons for going 30 plus years with only winning two playoff series...none of that changes my point that they have reached a point where they would rather trade for a known commodity than hope for lucking into a player in the draft or getting a needle moving free agent up in Minnesota.

They won 46 games last year and would project to around 50 keeping the same team in tact with expected improvements to ANT and McDaniels...they kept the most important players on the team, added Gobert...and have some wiggle room in free agency next summer when Russell comes off the books...and have him as trade bait this year as well.

Is it a no brainer deal? Of course not, but when you go 30 years while doing essentially nothing...trying to capitalize on a team that might win 55 plus games next year just isn't nearly as bad as everyone is claiming it is.

[iamgine]

Jazz receive:

• Malik Beasley
• Patrick Beverley
• Leandro Bolmaro
• Walker Kessler (No. 22 pick in 2022 Draft)
• Jarred Vanderbilt
• 2023 first-round pick
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
• 2029 first-round pick


From Minny's perspective, perhaps they're thinking those players are easily replaceable.

2023 & 2025 picks should be quite a low pick (20+) so these are useless.

So really all they're giving up is 2027 pick, which should still be quite low, and 2029 pick which is top 5 protected.

It's really a gamble.

[DMAVS41]

From Minny's perspective, perhaps they're thinking those players are easily replaceable.

2023 & 2025 picks should be quite a low pick (20+) so these are useless.

So really all they're giving up is 2027 pick, which should still be quite low, and 2029 pick which is top 5 protected.

It's really a gamble.

Everything is a gamble...that is all I want the other side to admit.

It is a gamble to just sit back and hope you luck into a needle moving player picking in the bottom half of the draft and also luck to add a real difference maker in free agency up in Minny.

I'm pretty sure it went something like this...

Hey, I think we have a real star on our hands in ANT...we also have a a solid core around him that is good, but not good enough to make noise. Given our history...should we try to capitalize on what we think we have by not giving up much of note in the present to add a player we think will be a huge asset for the next few years? We also still have flexibility with Russell, while moving now has some risks, we do lose some flexibility once ANT gets paid in a couple years in terms of the cap...if we act now...we can add a big time player, make some additions next summer or trade Russell...and still sign ANT after his first deal is up.

Doesn't make it right or wrong...but I think that line of thinking is more solid than the "worst trade ever" group like Simmons and Russillo.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The way you talk about Kevin Garnett being their best player ever is as if you don't think KG is one of the very best players of all time...which he clearly is.I don't see how anyone could get that inference out of my post.


Yes, there are some reasons for going 30 plus years with only winning two playoff series...none of that changes my point that they have reached a point where they would rather trade for a known commodity than hope for lucking into a player in the draft or getting a needle moving free agent up in Minnesota.You are ignoring the main reason for a major stretch of that futility. 5 consecutive years without a first round pick. It was a crippling blow to their ability to compete in a large part of the prime of the best player they ever had. A franchise rarely gets a player of Garnett's caliber and to not be able to get the most out of your years with him was awful. This trade repeats that mistake on purpose.

[nayte]

And how have the Wolves down with picks for the last 30 years?

Nothing is a lock...the picks always sound better because the potential is there...it's exciting...but it isn't a lock for anything....nothing is.

I agree with this. They have their guys from the draft now. No point continuously waiting for picks. They have made their move now and I like it

[iamgine]

You are ignoring the main reason for a major stretch of that futility. 5 consecutive years without a first round pick. It was a crippling blow to their ability to compete in a large part of the prime of the best player they ever had. A franchise rarely gets a player of Garnett's caliber and to not be able to get the most out of your years with him was awful. This trade repeats that mistake on purpose.

I wouldn't say that though. This trade is like getting a '97 Mutombo for those picks instead of nothing.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see how anyone could get that inference out of my post.

You are ignoring the main reason for a major stretch of that futility. 5 consecutive years without a first round pick. It was a crippling blow to their ability to compete in a large part of the prime of the best player they ever had. A franchise rarely gets a player of Garnett's caliber and to not be able to get the most out of your years with him was awful. This trade repeats that mistake on purpose.

No, I'm not ignoring it.

I'm saying that, given their history...which includes that Joe Smith fiasco...it is understandable to that they want to capitalize on their current situation.

It is completely different. I don't know what team you are looking at...the Wolves almost won 50 last year and not only have a solid player in Towns, but an up and coming player in McDaniels...and they aren't losing the picks for nothing. They are losing the picks to add one of the 20 best players in the league.

The draft is not reliable...especially when you have a team that projects to win around 50 for the next few years...and Minny will never be a top free agent destination.

Again, of course there is real risk to it...injuries could derail it...fit could derail it...etc. But there is also risk to just running it back hoping that the 20th pick in the draft turns into something year after year while you can't land free agents...and lose cap flexibility in a couple seasons when ANT and others get paid.

But to compare the Joe Smith situation to trading for an all-nba level player makes no sense. You are completely ignoring the return.

[Xiao Yao You]

Is he going to be better than joker?

his team likely is and that's what it's all about for most. I realize some just care about Gobert out scoring everyone :lol

[Xiao Yao You]

Your words were "became one of the best teams in the league. " that means they can compete with the best team in the league doesn't it? And no that is not a perfect fit on offense. Towns is a lot like Embiid on offense a big that is at his best scoring in the paint but with the ability to shoot from distance. A guy like that is at his best when he is surrounded by shooters. Gobert is not a particularly good shooter. They could be dominant on the glass but they will struggle with quicker teams.

they will compete with anyone now because of Gobert. The Jazz started to compete in December of 2014 because of Gobert and he had nowhere near the talent around him he has now nor did he ever have this much talent around him with the Jazz. Not even close. I'm guessing their coach might even make an adjustment or two come playoff time?

No one wants Towns posting up in the paint when he can knock 3's down at an elite rate and there's no way to guard him out there because he can shoot over anyone besides his new teammate! Quicker teams have to guard them at the other end. For some reason people like to talk about mismatches and act like it only works one way. Other teams have to deal with their size and talent.

[Xiao Yao You]

also have to remember Towns and Gobert's minutes will be staggered so one of them are on the court at all times. Towns can post up then.

[PeroAntic]

I have a hard time seeing how Gobert and Towns can actually co-exist. I guess on paper, Towns will chuck 8 three pointers a game and Rudy will brick layins, but in reality these big men can't co-exist.

They're both centers even if Towns likes to shoot 3s and they'll both get in each other's way, particularly on defense.

This will end badly, probably with Towns being traded, but maybe that was the plan all along. Towns seems to be a primadonna, a more stable DeMarcus Cousins.

Ant + Gobert could be a good duo, basically a better Utah situation and they can probably get a lot of good players for Towns.

I'm calling it now, Towns gets traded at the deadline.

Towns for Jaylen Brown straight up? A win-win imo. Towns wouldn't hurt the Cs defense that much and would compensate with better offense, and Brown is what the Wolves need to fix the imbalance of playing with two bigs in a small ball era.

We might even see a Wolves-Celtics finals this way next season!

[FireDavidKahn]

This is a fantastic trade. We made it to the play offs but there was no guarantee we'd make it again next year with teams like the Clippers and Pelicans becoming healthy. Now we'll be guaranteed play offs and likely top 4 seed and depending on how Ant progresses over the next few years a possible championship contender.

Ant gets to have constant exposure to the play offs which will only massively benefit him for the long term.

One thing that almost everyone is missing is that we were able to keep Jaden McDaniels. If we had given Utah Jaden then we probably only would have needed to send 3 picks. There's a reason why nearly every team in the league has called and tried to get McDaniels over the past year and that's because he has incredibly high potential. Keeping him over two non-lotto picks was an easy decision.

Our defense is going to be so good this year.

[FireDavidKahn]

I have a hard time seeing how Gobert and Towns can actually co-exist. I guess on paper, Towns will chuck 8 three pointers a game and Rudy will brick layins, but in reality these big men can't co-exist.

They're both centers even if Towns likes to shoot 3s and they'll both get in each other's way, particularly on defense.

This will end badly, probably with Towns being traded, but maybe that was the plan all along. Towns seems to be a primadonna, a more stable DeMarcus Cousins.

Ant + Gobert could be a good duo, basically a better Utah situation and they can probably get a lot of good players for Towns.

I'm calling it now, Towns gets traded at the deadline.

Lulz, you have no idea what you are talking about. Wanna bet on it?

Please explain why you think Towns and Gobert can't coexist. Also keep in mind that he played next to Vanderbilt all last year who makes Gobert look like Hakeem Olajuwon.

[FireDavidKahn]

also have to remember Towns and Gobert's minutes will be staggered so one of them are on the court at all times. Towns can post up then.
KAT has slimmed down in recent years and his efficiency in the paint has fallen off a tad. His offense is going to take a huge leap next year when he is bombing 8+threes a game at a >40% clip. And he has both the speed and the ability to drive by people on the perimeter to start heading toward the basket. He also is a decent passer and with Gobert around he is going to get spoonfed so many buckets. Plus since he won't be playing down low as much he won't be committing as many fouls.

This team is by far the most talented Gobert has ever been on and he's going to benefit massively from things he didn't have in Utah

Don't even get me started on Gobert setting screens for Ant...Ant can already blow by anyone in the league and having the best screen setter in the league Ant will be getting basically free paths to the paint. Gonna be a lot more posters from Ant this year:banana:

[tontoz]

Offensively it should certainly work. I think the big question is 3 pt defense. I don't watch the Wolves enough to have any strong opinion on this one way or the other.

[90sgoat]

Towns for Jaylen Brown straight up? A win-win imo. Towns wouldn't hurt the Cs defense that much and would compensate with better offense, and Brown is what the Wolves need to fix the imbalance of playing with two bigs in a small ball era.

We might even see a Wolves-Celtics finals this way next season!

Could be a good trade, but isn't Ant and Jaylen playing pretty similar games? Maybe move Jaylen to small forward.

[Xiao Yao You]

Offensively it should certainly work. I think the big question is 3 pt defense. I don't watch the Wolves enough to have any strong opinion on this one way or the other.

it's a lot easier to guard the 3 point line if you have an elite rim protector. Jazz would get hurt in the mid range after running teams off the 3 point line or pick and roll or good ball movement where Gobert couldn't guard everyone at the same time

[90sgoat]

Lulz, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I generally don't but that doesn't stop me.



Wanna bet on it?

Please explain why you think Towns and Gobert can't coexist. Also keep in mind that he played next to Vanderbilt all last year who makes Gobert look like Hakeem Olajuwon.

It's based on a hunch, personality assessment more than in depth analysis of playstyle.

I just think Ant and Gobert are going to kill in the PnR and then Towns will be the third option on most plays and then what?

Because Towns can camp at the 3 when Rudy is down low, but Rudy can't camp at the 3 when Towns is down low.

So that means if you want to win, Towns has to basically be Mavs Porzingis at the 3 point line.

What do you think?

In general, I'm just not a big believer in Towns due to seemingly seething when losing.

[Xiao Yao You]

I generally don't but that doesn't stop me.



It's based on a hunch, personality assessment more than in depth analysis of playstyle.

I just think Ant and Gobert are going to kill in the PnR and then Towns will be the third option on most plays and then what?

Because Towns can camp at the 3 when Rudy is down low, but Rudy can't camp at the 3 when Towns is down low.

So that means if you want to win, Towns has to basically be Mavs Porzingis at the 3 point line.

What do you think?

In general, I'm just not a big believer in Towns due to seemingly seething when losing.

Towns is the 3rd best player on the team. He's still a lot better than Porzingas

[90sgoat]

Towns is the 3rd best player on the team. He's still a lot better than Porzingas

Porzingus might not be as good, but he didn't complain as much as Towns.

[NBAGOAT]

Towns is the 3rd best player on the team. He's still a lot better than Porzingas

oh no we're already starting with putting down others. the guy who was the best player on the team last year and made all-nba over his teammate while being younger is suddenly going be the 3rd best player now lol.

As for the fit, I agree with lowe. The defense and offensive fit is fine for the regular season but gobert cant abuse small ball lineups in the playoffs and towns isnt great at it either. That just means an uphill battle vs the warriors and clippers

[RRR3]

oh no we're already starting with putting down others. the guy who was the best player on the team last year and made all-nba over his teammate while being younger is suddenly going be the 3rd best player now lol.

As for the fit, I agree with lowe. The defense and offensive fit is fine for the regular season but gobert cant abuse small ball lineups in the playoffs and towns isnt great at it either. That just means an uphill battle vs the warriors and clippers
It’s insane he hates Mitchell and stans Edwards, who is at least currently a worse version of Mitchell. All the stats he jerks off over because they have Rudy over Mitchel have Towns over Edwards. He’s just a troll.

[NBAGOAT]

It’s insane he hates Mitchell and stans Edwards, who is at least currently a worse version of Mitchell. All the stats he jerks off over because they have Rudy over Mitchel have Towns over Edwards. He’s just a troll.

all we need to know is if this becomes a disaster, gobert is the first one out the door lol

[Wally450]

How much are we expecting Gobert to move the needle with the Wolves?

[Shooter]

Ainge has been hoarding a treasure chest of assets so that he can lose in the 2nd round repeatedly. Nice life.

Zero rings from 2009 to 2022 :lol

[PeroAntic]

Could be a good trade, but isn't Ant and Jaylen playing pretty similar games? Maybe move Jaylen to small forward.

If Brown can coexist with Tatum, there shouldn't be a problem with Edwards.

[post]

2nd person i've heard after myself to call him bill russell

or a way more efficient russell with less passing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL6P_wffTS0

[Xiao Yao You]

oh no we're already starting with putting down others. the guy who was the best player on the team last year and made all-nba over his teammate while being younger is suddenly going be the 3rd best player now lol.

As for the fit, I agree with lowe. The defense and offensive fit is fine for the regular season but gobert cant abuse small ball lineups in the playoffs and towns isnt great at it either. That just means an uphill battle vs the warriors and clippers

who's putting anyone down? Towns has never been as good as Gobert. I realize I'll never convince people like Axe who only see ppg but Connelly certainly didn't give up what he did because he doesn't think Gobert is one of the most impactful players in the league. Towns wouldn't have needed Ant to carry him out of the lottery like Gobert did for the Jazz if he was their 1st or 2nd best player

Gobert abused Team USA when they went small so there's no reason he can't do it in Minny. Hopefully they got some guys that will give up the ball unlike Mitchell and Clarkson

[Xiao Yao You]

all we need to know is if this becomes a disaster, gobert is the first one out the door lol

yep because he is highly valued as we saw with this trade.

[Xiao Yao You]

How much are we expecting Gobert to move the needle with the Wolves?

from fringe playoff team to one of the best teams in the league. Only big 4 in the league! Best defensive player in the league. 2 top 5 centers. One of the best young players in the league

[Xiao Yao You]

2nd person i've heard after myself to call him bill russell

or a way more efficient russell with less passing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL6P_wffTS0

I know the Jazz thought of him like Russell as far as his impact

[NBAGOAT]

yep because he is highly valued as we saw with this trade.

Kat is far more valuable in a trade at his age, he’s getting the haul while gobert is someone they hope they can get off if this becomes a disaster. That is the consensus in the media and Zach Lowe said this directly too on his podcast. Towns had injury issues in previous years and awful rosters. Ant certainly helped but for now kat is the best player on the team. Goberts always had a co star whether it was Mitchell or 1 year of hayward. Also most of the league think Connelly drastically overpaid for gobert and doing it in FIBA is different that doing it in the playoffs. Also on Minnesota, goberts not going get the ball that much more, the wolves have 3 guys who need the ball and dangelo is their only great passer. Edwards isn’t even Mitchell as a passer yet

[Xiao Yao You]

Kat is far more valuable in a trade at his age, he’s getting the haul while gobert is someone they hope they can get off if this becomes a disaster. That is the consensus in the media and Zach Lowe said this directly too on his podcast. Towns had injury issues in previous years and awful rosters. Ant certainly helped but for now kat is the best player on the team. Goberts always had a co star whether it was Mitchell or 1 year of hayward. Also most of the league think Connelly drastically overpaid for gobert and doing it in FIBA is different that doing it in the playoffs. Also on Minnesota, goberts not going get the ball that much more, the wolves have 3 guys who need the ball and dangelo is their only great passer. Edwards isn’t even Mitchell as a passer yet

we keep hearing Mitchell and Durant are more valuable too but no one wants to pay that price for Durant at least at his age with his durability a huge question. I wouldn't pay for Mitchell or Towns either. Towns nor Mitchell will ever have the impact of Gobert if they haven't yet. He's still getting better too

Hayward had one great year. Mitchell has been an inefficient ball hog who refuses to defend. Without Gobert Mitchell would just be another high scoring guard on a bad team which he will be this year. So much for co stars! Now he's got Ant, Towns and the forgotten D'Angelo who is probably better than Mitchell as well. Gobert doesn't need the ball to have an impact. Ideally he gets the ball when he's the only guy open and near the basket. Most efficient shot in basketball history even if Clarkson and Mitchell don't think so

[post]

I know the Jazz thought of him like Russell as far as his impact


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyYyvzJcpM

[CelticBaller]

Ainge has been hoarding a treasure chest of assets so that he can lose in the 2nd round repeatedly. Nice life.

Zero rings from 2009 to 2022 :lol

weird cut off lmao

add 2008 in there and that's 1 more ring than your mom

[Real Men Wear Green]

No, I'm not ignoring it.

I'm saying that, given their history...which includes that Joe Smith fiasco...it is understandable to that they want to capitalize on their current situation.

It is completely different. I don't know what team you are looking at...the Wolves almost won 50 last year and not only have a solid player in Towns, but an up and coming player in McDaniels...and they aren't losing the picks for nothing. They are losing the picks to add one of the 20 best players in the league.

The draft is not reliable...especially when you have a team that projects to win around 50 for the next few years...and Minny will never be a top free agent destination.

Again, of course there is real risk to it...injuries could derail it...fit could derail it...etc. But there is also risk to just running it back hoping that the 20th pick in the draft turns into something year after year while you can't land free agents...and lose cap flexibility in a couple seasons when ANT and others get paid.

But to compare the Joe Smith situation to trading for an all-nba level player makes no sense. You are completely ignoring the return. we are talking about 6 picks. Not one or two that can be a shot in the dark. 6. If your GM and scouting can't get some good players out of 6 years of draft picks they aren't qualified for their jobs by definition. That doesn't show that it's a good trade it just means people suck at their jobs.

And I did address the return. One good defensive player that won't be in a team of them to create a good defense and in the other end doesn't pair with Towns particularly well. They will struggle with all the switching you have to do defending quick players in modern offense and Gobert week either lead to a more clogged posting for Towns or a more perimeter Towns.

[Real Men Wear Green]

they will compete with anyone now because of Gobert. The Jazz started to compete in December of 2014 because of Gobert and he had nowhere near the talent around him he has now nor did he ever have this much talent around him with the Jazz. Not even close. I'm guessing their coach might even make an adjustment or two come playoff time?

No one wants Towns posting up in the paint when he can knock 3's down at an elite rate and there's no way to guard him out there because he can shoot over anyone besides his new teammate! Quicker teams have to guard them at the other end. For some reason people like to talk about mismatches and act like it only works one way. Other teams have to deal with their size and talent.

Towns didn't post a lot but he was 8th in post up dg %age last season. It's a weapon he can use but not as well if he shares the paint with a second big that doesn't stretch the floor and will only be effective as a scorer in the paint. Towns can hit threes but it's a waste of his talent not to use him inside when he can dominate there offensively vs most bigs, potentially causing foul trouble and scoring where his jumper is on our not. The w8th mismatch the Wolves cause will be partially negated by the fact that there is no good reason for Gobert's man to leave the paint.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Ainge has been hoarding a treasure chest of assets so that he can lose in the 2nd round repeatedly. Nice life.

Zero rings from 2009 to 2022 :lol

Beyond the fact that your cut off point is stupid not counting this season when Aonge technically wasn't the architect the Celtics made the Conference Finals(that would be the third round for the really stupid people) three times over those 13 years and that was after a team that Ainge put together won a championship and made the Finals a few years later. Ainge had been highly successful. The warriors and Spurs GMs are the only ones that have definitely done better.

[Shooter]

weird cut off lmao

add 2008 in there and that's 1 more ring than your mom

And 1 more than your mom too :lol

[iamgine]

we are talking about 6 picks. Not one or two that can be a shot in the dark. 6. If your GM and scouting can't get some good players out of 6 years of draft picks they aren't qualified for their jobs by definition. That doesn't show that it's a good trade it just means people suck at their jobs.

Most of those picks very likely would be low picks.

Just look at every teams histories and see how many players at Gobert's caliber they get with picks in the 20s.

[DMAVS41]

we are talking about 6 picks. Not one or two that can be a shot in the dark. 6. If your GM and scouting can't get some good players out of 6 years of draft picks they aren't qualified for their jobs by definition. That doesn't show that it's a good trade it just means people suck at their jobs.

And I did address the return. One good defensive player that won't be in a team of them to create a good defense and in the other end doesn't pair with Towns particularly well. They will struggle with all the switching you have to do defending quick players in modern offense and Gobert week either lead to a more clogged posting for Towns or a more perimeter Towns.

What you aren't addressing is the situation specifically in Minny. Nobody thinks Gobert is worth the entire package they gave up in a vacuum...I will say though...that Gobert at age 30 under contract for essentially 4 more years. That is easily worth 3 first round picks in a vacuum when you factor in the likely drafting position of the Wolves.

Also, not that it matters a ton, but it is 5 picks...you can't count the pick swap as losing a pick...as they don't lose the pick. It was Kessler and 4 picks...which is 5.

Like I said...it is a swing for the fences move...a move I would hate if the specifics were different for other teams...but a franchise that has won 2 playoff series in 30 plus years...that has drafted some really good players and struggled to build around them...that is not a free agent destination...that currently has roughly a 50 win team without Gobert.

It is just understandable. Risky? Sure, but so is hoping to get someone that moves the needle in the bottom half of the draft. You, like many, are overvaluing the expected value of those picks.

Here is reality:

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Wolves picked 22 this year...want to know the average career stats for a the 22nd pick from 1989 through 2008...

225 games played for their careers...averaging 6 points, 3 boards, 1 assist...and rates as at best a role player...most likely a deep bench player

Want to know the average value of the 14th pick in terms of player comp? It is Denzel Valentine since 2004 to 2020.

You are not understanding how hard drafting is overall...and are certainly over-rating it in the bottom half of the first round. Where those picks are actually valuable...is for trades...and the worst thing about this trade for Minny is that they lose flexibility...not the actual likelihood of finding quality players in the mid 20's of the draft.

Here is an interesting part of the article from The Ringer...


Of 27 Cavaliers picks since 2004, only three have exceeded expectations in their first four seasons:

Kyrie Irving (no. 1 in 2011)
Danny Green (no. 46 in 2009)
Daniel Gibson (no. 42 in 2006)
The other 24 have gone in the other direction, from late second-rounders who never played an NBA game to no. 1 pick Anthony Bennett, who has the most wins below expectation for any draft pick on any team since 2004.

Hell, just take the Pelicans. They've nailed the draft since getting Chris Paul...have drafted 3 likely first ballot hall of famers...they've won 2 playoff series, that I can remember, in the last 20 years.

ANT will almost for sure not be as good as Paul or Davis were...nothing is a lock and there is real risk in both directions....and way too many people ignore that other side of the coin here...even though 5 minutes of thinking and looking into things would make that risk apparent.

[DMAVS41]

Beyond the fact that your cut off point is stupid not counting this season when Aonge technically wasn't the architect the Celtics made the Conference Finals(that would be the third round for the really stupid people) three times over those 13 years and that was after a team that Ainge put together won a championship and made the Finals a few years later. Ainge had been highly successful. The warriors and Spurs GMs are the only ones that have definitely done better.

Yep...and the other side of the coin is the Pels.

They drafted Paul and Davis...two of the best players ever...won 2 playoff series in the last 20 years. Winning is really hard even if you hit in the draft...and improving your team in the draft after "winning in the draft" is even harder as your pick position gets worse...and as I've tried to explain...the EV of players drafted in the 20's is not needle moving.

Gobert is easily worth 3 of those Minny picks and Kessler in a vacuum based on the expected value of those players. Easily...forget the specifics of the situation...a player like him is worth that.

Again, doesn't change the risk for the Wolves, but you have to actually provide a coherent counterfactual that isn't reliant on hope if you want to compare it to the Joe Smith situation.

[Xiao Yao You]

what makes the picks valuable(Or at least 3 of them) is that they are unprotected

[DMAVS41]

what makes the picks valuable(Or at least 3 of them) is that they are unprotected

Yes, but it is more than that. Future draft picks have more value than the level of player you are likely to get with said draft picks.

You are paying for the chance to land a superstar...even though the likely outcome is a role player, if you are lucky, drafting in the 20's.

Yes, the unprotected picks, especially those years from now, have more value because they have a real chance to wind up in the lottery...

But, overall, the expected value of Gobert vs what you are likely to get from Kessler, 23, and 25 picks is higher. Gobert, in a vacuum...is worth more than that pretty easily imo.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Most of those picks very likely would be low picks.

Just look at every teams histories and see how many players at Gobert's caliber they get with picks in the 20s.
If Utah were to get even one player of Gobert's caliber with one of those picks that would instantly make the deal a giant win for them. They probably won't but there is an excellent chance they get multiple good players.

[DMAVS41]

If Utah were to get even one player of Gobert's caliber with one of those picks that would instantly make the deal a giant win for them. They probably won't but there is an excellent chance they get multiple good players.

This is false.

The EV of those picks is not multiple good players...unless you are defining good players as borderline role players.

Those picks are likely to turn into one starter, one role player, one deep bench player, and a couple guys out of the league within 3 years.

They could get a superstar, or all-star...or they could not even get a starter...that is why expected value matters.

[Shooter]

Beyond the fact that your cut off point is stupid not counting this season when Aonge technically wasn't the architect the Celtics made the Conference Finals(that would be the third round for the really stupid people) three times over those 13 years and that was after a team that Ainge put together won a championship and made the Finals a few years later. Ainge had been highly successful. The warriors and Spurs GMs are the only ones that have definitely done better.

Hmm, ok fine then. Ainge has been hoarding a treasure chest of assets so that he can lose in the 2nd round repeatedly. Nice life.

Zero rings in the last five years
Zero rings in the last ten years.

Better?

[Real Men Wear Green]

What you aren't addressing is the situation specifically in Minny. Nobody thinks Gobert is worth the entire package they gave up in a vacuum...I will say though...that Gobert at age 30 under contract for essentially 4 more years. That is easily worth 3 first round picks in a vacuum when you factor in the likely drafting position of the Wolves.I have specifically analyzed how Gobert may fit in on Minnie. And the trade wasn't just for 3 first round picks (which would still be debatable).



Also, not that it matters a ton, but it is 5 picks...you can't count the pick swap as losing a pick...as they don't lose the pick. It was Kessler and 4 picks...which is 5.
Pick swap is a loss of draft position and thus opportunity. Minnie could easily have an unlucky year where a star or stars get hurt and the pick lands high. Could also have a rough situation where someone forces their way out and/or they just have a down year. And multiply that by 6, Would you be at all surprised if Minnie doesn't have 6 straight playoff appearances?

Like I said...it is a swing for the fences move...a move I would hate if the specifics were different for other teams...but a franchise that has won 2 playoff series in 30 plus years...that has drafted some really good players and struggled to build around them...that is not a free agent destination...that currently has roughly a 50 win team without Gobert.If your team can't land free agentss that makes draft picks even more valuable, They will be needing depth and players that can't easily leave in the not-too-distant future and the depth problem will get worse as they go more and more years without picks unless they deal one of the stars in a package for more players. And if that happens I guarantee you that no one else is going to give all of that draft capital plus players for Gobert.

It is just understandable. Risky? Sure, but so is hoping to get someone that moves the needle in the bottom half of the draft. You, like many, are overvaluing the expected value of those picks.


Here is reality:

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22597310/nba-draft-expectations

https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Wolves picked 22 this year...want to know the average career stats for a the 22nd pick from 1989 through 2008...

225 games played for their careers...averaging 6 points, 3 boards, 1 assist...and rates as at best a role player...most likely a deep bench player

Want to know the average value of the 14th pick in terms of player comp? It is Denzel Valentine since 2004 to 2020.

You are not understanding how hard drafting is overall...and are certainly over-rating it in the bottom half of the first round. Where those picks are actually valuable...is for trades...and the worst thing about this trade for Minny is that they lose flexibility...not the actual likelihood of finding quality players in the mid 20's of the draft.

Here is an interesting part of the article from The Ringer...



Hell, just take the Pelicans. They've nailed the draft since getting Chris Paul...have drafted 3 likely first ballot hall of famers...they've won 2 playoff series, that I can remember, in the last 20 years.
That is an average. We are talking about 6 picks. IF you go 6 picks without finding some good players you are bad at this. And on top of that we have the factor of the value that those picks represent which you yourself mention.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hmm, ok fine then. Ainge has been hoarding a treasure chest of assets so that he can lose in the 2nd round repeatedly. Nice life.

Zero rings in the last five years
Zero rings in the last ten years.

Better?You have no idea what the standards of good or bad is for a front office. It doesn't make you a bad person but it does make you a stupid poster. Ainge's job is to create a team with a chance to win. So if the team he puts together is consistently making Conference Finals he is doing a good job. Something like 26 teams don't have a championship in the last five years, All of their GMs are bad?

[DMAVS41]

I have specifically analyzed how Gobert may fit in on Minnie. And the trade wasn't just for 3 first round picks (which would still be debatable).

Pick swap is a loss of draft position and thus opportunity. Minnie could easily have an unlucky year where a star or stars get hurt and the pick lands high. Could also have a rough situation where someone forces their way out and/or they just have a down year. And multiply that by 6, Would you be at all surprised if Minnie doesn't have 6 straight playoff appearances?
If your team can't land free agentss that makes draft picks even more valuable, They will be needing depth and players that can't easily leave in the not-too-distant future and the depth problem will get worse as they go more and more years without picks unless they deal one of the stars in a package for more players. And if that happens I guarantee you that no one else is going to give all of that draft capital plus players for Gobert.

It is just understandable. Risky? Sure, but so is hoping to get someone that moves the needle in the bottom half of the draft. You, like many, are overvaluing the expected value of those picks.

That is an average. We are talking about 6 picks. IF you go 6 picks without finding some good players you are bad at this. And on top of that we have the factor of the value that those picks represent which you yourself mention.

Pick swap is not a loss of draft position for sure...but even if it were...it isn't a loss of a pick...and you just got done arguing how valuable all picks are. Sorry...not coherent to count it as a fully lost pick.

Yes, I take your point on the fit...as I have said there is real risk here. You just seem to ignore the other side of the risk...which is quite common for everyone when it comes to draft picks...they seem better than they actually are in terms of getting players. They have the most value, almost always, before a player is drafted.

I disagree about the free agent destination comment. I think it makes trades like this the best way to truly move the needle as the draft is pretty much a crapshoot unless you are tanking...and even then, again, the average level player you get with a top 3 pick is Otto Porter based on The Ringer analysis.

No, it is not an average...it is the expected value of those picks. You could get lucky and land a star or superstar...or you could get unlucky and draft 4 guys that aren't even in the league in 3 years. Also depends on how you are defining good players.


From 1989 through 2008, late first round (21-30) only 6% of picks become stars, and less than half even make it to role player caliber stats.

You are roughly likely to get a starter, one or two role players, and the rest will be irrelevant. That is what is likely to happen. Could be worse or could be better...and the value the picks represent was just translated into an all-nba level player under contract for 4 years added to a team that is way too good to tank to reliably build in the draft.

Again, it has real risk, but it isn't like the Wolves were/are a lock for anything without this move...and comparing it to the Joe Smith situation is just not objective in anyway.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yes, but it is more than that. Future draft picks have more value than the level of player you are likely to get with said draft picks.

You are paying for the chance to land a superstar...even though the likely outcome is a role player, if you are lucky, drafting in the 20's.

Yes, the unprotected picks, especially those years from now, have more value because they have a real chance to wind up in the lottery...

But, overall, the expected value of Gobert vs what you are likely to get from Kessler, 23, and 25 picks is higher. Gobert, in a vacuum...is worth more than that pretty easily imo.

unless they get one of the best players in the game while tanking Minnesota wins the trade for sure