Isiah Thomas to MJ "Stop lying About Being Frozen Out of 1985 ASG"

[1987_Lakers]

"Our beef started in the '85 All-star game. If you go back and look at the film, you can see that Isiah was actually doing that," Jordan said. "Once it started getting around that he was freezing me out, that’s when the ill feelings started to grow between us." - MJ

"Stop lying this story is not factual or accurate, tell the truth man. Dr.J, Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Sidney Moncrief and I did not freeze you out. If memory serves me correct I was injured most of the second half and Bird had a broken nose. Magic and Sampson dominated the game." - Isiah


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041267-isiah-thomas-tells-michael-jordan-to-stop-lying-about-being-frozen-out-of-1985-asg

[L.Kizzle]

Jordan played 22 minutes and shot the ball nine times.
Terry Cummings played 16 minutes and shot 17 times.

[TheMan]

Fascinating.

[sdot_thadon]

Well Mj is known and revered for creating slights from nothing to motivate himself, in the real world this is known as delusion lol. But Isiah did make one good point, why hasn't anyone else part of that game been asked about it? or have they?

[1987_Lakers]

Well Mj is known and revered for creating slights from nothing to motivate himself, in the real world this is known as delusion lol. But Isiah did make one good point, why hasn't anyone else part of that game been asked about it? or have they?

In his hall of fame speech MJ admitted if they did freeze him out, he had no clue.

[Johnny32]

Jordan played 22 minutes and shot the ball nine times.
Terry Cummings played 16 minutes and shot 17 times.

moncrief played 22 mins and took 5 shots. kareem 10 shots in 23 mins. dantley 6 shots in 23 mins. only the entitled chucking rook from chicago had a problem with fga it seems. he'd get his revenge vs cummings in the playoffs later that year though. oh wait, n/m...he got embarrassed in the 1st rd without scottie.

[3ba11]

moncrief played 22 mins and took 5 shots. kareem 10 shots in 23 mins. dantley 6 shots in 23 mins. only the entitled chucking rook from chicago had a problem with fga it seems. he'd get his revenge vs cummings in the playoffs later that year though. oh wait, n/m...he got embarrassed in the 1st rd without scottie.


They didn't want hotshot rookie taking over the all-star game like he did the pre-Olympics

Everyone just lies about Jordan nowadays, including Isiah, Pippen, Lebron and more

Jordan's entire career is reduced to 6/6, the shot over Ehlo and the switch hands shot.. He otherwise didn't know how to play... Yeah he averaged 37 but that was just coincidence and luck - it didn't require elite jumpshooting skill... Like, people have no idea how Jordan actually played - it's just 6/6 - that's what his career is reduced to (although it is the best way to sum up his career)

[FKAri]

Petty shit. But if you can use pettiness to motivate yourself then more power to you.

[sdot_thadon]

In his hall of fame speech MJ admitted if they did freeze him out, he had no clue.

Word? Didn't remember that, but that would make this whole discussion pointless then.

[jayfan]

Isiah's my guy. But there is surely some truth to the notion that he felt a little jealousy when Jordan came along & threatened to replace him as Chicago's favorite son, albeit adopted. And make no mistake, Isiah was Chicago's favorite son. He was a legend.

The fact that the game was in Chicago lends credence to the suspicion.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Has any of us here actually watched the game and tried to break it down? Be interesting to see if there were any plays that stuck out as freezing.

[jayfan]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1A_LAsIevQ4

[Spurs m8]

Its hilarious watching bron stans and MJs opposition STILL melting down and lying about him 20 years after he retired.

GOAT will continue to GOAT

Meanwhile 20 years from now, everyone will be speaking about Curry from this era...Bron will be remembered as the underachieving loser that always needed lots of help and still failed more than not

And the guy that chef decimated most of the time

[ImKobe]

Isiah's my guy. But there is surely some truth to the notion that he felt a little jealousy when Jordan came along & threatened to replace him as Chicago's favorite son, albeit adopted. And make no mistake, Isiah was Chicago's favorite son. He was a legend.

The fact that the game was in Chicago lends credence to the suspicion.

Yeah, and for people saying that a rookie MJ was entitled (which he probably was, he's always come off as entitled), he overtook Zeke's popularity in Chicago as a rookie and was coming off a dominant stretch of games where he looked like the best player in the league going into that ASG. 31/7/7/3 ~56%FG in his last 20 games pre-ASG. He wanted to be THAT guy from day 1 and clearly Zeke wasn't feeling it and there was a rivalry between the two. Zeke always tries to act nice but there's no doubt in my mind he hated Jordan's guts as early as '84.

[TheMan]

Yeah, and for people saying that a rookie MJ was entitled (which he probably was, he's always come off as entitled), he overtook Zeke's popularity in Chicago as a rookie and was coming off a dominant stretch of games where he looked like the best player in the league going into that ASG. 31/7/7/3 ~56%FG in his last 20 games pre-ASG. He wanted to be THAT guy from day 1 and clearly Zeke wasn't feeling it and there was a rivalry between the two. Zeke always tries to act nice but there's no doubt in my mind he hated Jordan's guts as early as '84.

Yeah, anyone from Chicago in that era remembers how popular Chicagoan IT was, how irrelevant the Bulls pre Jordan were and how MJ became Chicago's favorite son, although adopted...Isiah was seething with jealousy lol. Then on top of that, Thomas went from being a beloved hoops star in his hometown to being the most hated player on the Bulls biggest rival, the Detroit Pistons. That had to be a brutal gut punch to Isiah.

As a Chicagoan myself, I can not stand Isiah Thomas to this day lol.

[Johnny32]

moncrief played 22 mins and took 5 shots. kareem 10 shots in 23 mins. dantley 6 shots in 23 mins. only the entitled chucking rook from chicago had a problem with fga it seems. he'd get his revenge vs cummings in the playoffs later that year though. oh wait, n/m...he got embarrassed in the 1st rd without scottie.

more on jordone's revenge vs cummings in the 85 playoffs.

cummings - 30 ppg on 63% shooting
jordone - 29 ppg on 43% chucking

bucks win 3-1.

maybe the right guy was taking those shots.

[ImKobe]

more on jordone's revenge vs cummings in the 85 playoffs.

cummings - 30 ppg on 63% shooting
jordone - 29 ppg on 43% chucking

bucks win 3-1.

maybe the right guy was taking those shots.

Cummings scored 1 more point than Jordan, I believe that's the only time in MJ's entire Playoff career he was ever outscored by anyone.

series averages

Cummings 29.5/9.3/2.8 22.7 GmSc
Jordan 29.3/5.8/8.5 24.6 GmSc

so MJ was still the best player in the series, but he didn't have Sidney Moncrief on his team like Cummings did. Cummings was actually the 3rd best player in the series and Sidney was 2nd.

Funny how you say "chucking" for Jordan when he put up 29 with 9 assists and averaged less than 20 FGA.

[TheMan]

Cummings scored 1 more point than Jordan, I believe that's the only time in MJ's entire Playoff career he was ever outscored by anyone.

series averages

Cummings 29.5/9.3/2.8 22.7 GmSc
Jordan 29.3/5.8/8.5 24.6 GmSc

so MJ was still the best player in the series, but he didn't have Sidney Moncrief on his team like Cummings did. Cummings was actually the 3rd best player in the series and Sidney was 2nd.

Funny how you say "chucking" for Jordan when he put up 29 with 9 assists and averaged less than 20 FGA.

Why would you take anything serious from that idiot Johnny32? He is an agenda driven troll stan :confusedshrug: Everything he says should be taken with a ton of salt.

[Johnny32]

Cummings scored 1 more point than Jordan, I believe that's the only time in MJ's entire Playoff career he was ever outscored by anyone.

series averages

Cummings 29.5/9.3/2.8 22.7 GmSc
Jordan 29.3/5.8/8.5 24.6 GmSc

so MJ was still the best player in the series, but he didn't have Sidney Moncrief on his team like Cummings did. Cummings was actually the 3rd best player in the series and Sidney was 2nd.

Funny how you say "chucking" for Jordan when he put up 29 with 9 assists and averaged less than 20 FGA.

look at the post i quoted, window licker. also lmao @ trying to argue 29 ppg on 43% chucking is better than 30 ppg on 63%. so desperate, so embarrassing.

[ImKobe]

Why would you take anything serious from that idiot Johnny32? He is an agenda driven troll stan :confusedshrug: Everything he says should be taken with a ton of salt.

Of course. I just don't like it when these trolls never get checked for their inaccuracies. I'm not here for 90% of this bullshit but I like refuting alts such as Johnny32 and I know he's been posting here for a decade+.

[Johnny32]

Of course. I just don't like it when these trolls never get checked for their inaccuracies. I'm not here for 90% of this bullshit but I like refuting alts such as Johnny32 and I know he's been posting here for a decade+.

i been here 2 yrs. i'm vegasfraud on espn gen and anger gen. and johnwall32 on gamefaqs. google me, window licker.

[ImKobe]

i been here 2 yrs. i'm vegasfraud on espn gen and anger gen. and johnwall32 on gamefaqs. google me, window licker.

You're a weirdo who's been obsessed with hating on Kobe and MJ for the past 15 years and now you're admitting to doing that on 100 other sites. Maybe I should not come on ISH during the summer to weed out the clinically insane.

[Johnny32]

You're a weirdo who's been obsessed with hating on Kobe and MJ for the past 15 years and now you're admitting to doing that on 100 other sites. Maybe I should not come on ISH during the summer to weed out the clinically insane.

says the obsessed nerd claiming i'm an alt because i shit down her throat earlier today and she's still upset about it.

leawww.

[Johnny32]

oh and i been destroying disgusting casuals like you a lot longer than 15 yrs. more like yahoo chat 1998. ask your kobe loving butt buddy griff...i was his worst nightmare.

[1987_Lakers]

I'm in ImKobe's head so much that I have him thinking im other posters. Same shit happened to Kenny, dude ended up having a mental breakdown and Jeff himself said I didn't have any alts.

[ImKobe]

says the obsessed nerd claiming i'm an alt because i shit down her throat earlier today and she's still upset about it.

leawww.

Have fun shitposting here for the next 3 months.

[jayfan]

https://youtu.be/IRTY1qAH3OQ

[Gotterdammerung]

Watched the game in its entirety.

There was no orchestrated freeze out.

The implication that Gervin played tough defense is an exaggeration. More like he played well on offense, giving Jordan the business.

At most you could blame coach KC Jones for sitting Jordan half of the game.

Plus Isiah had a bad leg in wraps fer chrissakes. He played well in the first half before his leg became troublesome.

[jayfan]

After watching the first quarter, I've seen no evidence of a freeze-out. Each time I thought Isiah should pass to Jordan, he did.

There was one play where Isiah had Jordan on his wing during a fast-break, but they didn't have numbers. They would have had Jordan covered, and Zeke pulled up for a jumper instead. Nothing for Jordan to be upset about on that play, or any other play.


.

[Da_Realist]

What a nothingburger. It was an all-star game. From 1985. A glorified exhibition that nobody takes seriously. I don't believe all this started with an All Star game. Even if Isiah led some freezeout, he more than made up for it. Isiah kept feeding MJ the rock in the 1988 All Star Game in Chicago to help him get the MVP. Not only that, but Isiah coached MJ in the 2003 All Star game where everyone looked the other way while MJ squeezed off 27 shots. C'mon man.

There's something else there. If it's the Pistons Bulls rivalry, I don't understand that either. Michael has always given credit to his older brother Larry for bullying him into the competitor he is today. The Pistons were the NBA version of that. They made MJ a better player and leader. He appreciates Larry. Why not the Pistons?

I've seen Isiah as a commentator go out of his way to compliment MJ over and over again. Even if it wasn't always sincere (and it might have been), he at least put forth some effort. MJ has done nothing but drag Isiah for decades. Publicly. No wonder Isiah is always trolling. Isiah doesn't deserve that. They both made the NBA better. They made each other better. MJ is being petty. Gotta let this stuff go. They're old men now. Grandfathers. They're in a select group of men to play the game at the highest level possible and both won multiple championships. They should appreciate each other for that even if they'll never golf together.

[Johnny32]

mj's such a selfish me-first chucker he thinks his teammates are freezing him out if he isn't allowed to chuck 30% of the teams total fga.

[jayfan]

https://youtu.be/IRTY1qAH3OQ


What a nothingburger. It was an all-star game. From 1985. A glorified exhibition that nobody takes seriously.

Your overall point (not quoted) is well-taken. But they actually did take the game seriously back then. Watching this one, they're going pretty much all out from the jump. On both ends of the floor. Treating the game like it counts in the standings.


.

[Rake2204]

All signs point to there not being a coordinated freeze-out in a traditional sense. Here's a video of the times Isiah Thomas passed the ball to Jordan this game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRCwInRQNR0&lc=Ugxa9c8sK7CUBIcQNBx4AaABAg&ab_channel=RyanVanDusen

Jordan's nine field goal attempts were actually the most by an all-star rookie in the 80's. The rest:

Michael Jordan (1985): 2-9

Hakeem Olajuwon (1985): 2-2

Ralph Sampson (1984): 2-7

Isiah Thomas (1982): 5-7

Kelly Tripucka (1982): 3-7

Buck Williams (1982): 2-7

Larry Bird (1980): 3-6

Bill Cartwright (1980): 4-8

Magic Johnson (1980): 4-8

None of the accusations of a conspiratorial freeze-out ever really fleshed out when it came to analyzing what actually happened. Sam Smith wrote a nice piece on these allegations in 2017:https://history.bulls.com/1985-all-star-game-jordan-freezeout/

The gist, according to those familiar, was that Isiah and Magic agreed to defend one another ahead of time, likely with a broad agreement to take it a bit easy on one another. That left Michael Jordan to be guarded by a 32-year-old George Gervin, who was never mistaken for an All-World defender but perhaps still gave it a good effort when defending Jordan that night. The myth that Isiah spent that night purposely looking off MJ and intentionally withholding every possible pass was one that was able to grow at a time when people did not have access to footage of the game itself after it'd already happened.