Magic was a bad defender, so don't scream "b-b-but defense" when convenient (Curry)

[3ba11]

Magic is considered top 5 by most, yet he was a bad defender, so defense can't be used against Curry.

The reality is that individual defense is unimportant when comparing players because it's easier to build a good defensive team around a great offensive player - great offensive players need less offensive help and therefore can be surrounded by cheap defenders.. Otoh, lesser offensive players need more offensive help, which makes it harder to acquire defenders.

This explains exactly how Curry, Kyrie and others are on #1 defensive teams - it's actually easier to build a great defensive team around a great offensive player.

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

[NBAGOAT]

For team building yes you want to spend money on offense usually but in these all time comparisons magic curry etc are compared to all time greats who are great on both ends. Curry is goat lvl offensively but his defense means lesser offensive players still have arguments for a better prime. Defense is a big reason Giannis is considered BITW rn not curry. To move on to magic lowkey one reason people have bird over magic is bird was a better defender

[3ba11]

For team building yes you want to spend money on offense usually but in these all time comparisons magic curry etc are compared to all time greats who are great on both ends. Curry is goat lvl offensively but his defense means lesser offensive players still have arguments for a better prime. Defense is a big reason Giannis is considered BITW rn not curry. To move on to magic lowkey one reason people have bird over magic is bird was a better defender


Curry can carry an offense, so he can win with secondary scorers like Klay or Wiggins - GM's can just get 1 secondary scorer like Wiggins and then get a bunch of cheap defenders like Looney or Payton

Otoh, a less dominant scorer.or weaker brand of ball must be surrounded by more offensive help (star help), so it's much harder to get defenders and build a defensive team

Again, it's easier to build a good defensive team around a great offensive player, so individual defense doesn't matter when comparing players.

You think Pippen gives a team a great defense? Pippen needs goat offensive help to win (needs Jordan-level help), so it's harder to get defenders and build a good defensive team around him.. The Bulls just got lucky because Jordan happened to be a Kawhi on defense, except better

[Axe]

Kobe never faced some concentrated defensive attention like curry did and yet, he still managed to brick a lot of shots before.

[3ba11]

Kobe never faced some concentrated defensive attention like curry did and yet, he still managed to brick a lot of shots before.


Curry will pass the late great Kobe Bean Bryant when he gets #5 next year

[Full Court]

Defense is a factor for sure in ranking players. That doesn't mean you have to be an elite defender to being in the top 10, but if all else is equal, defensive accomplishments push a player higher.

Magic has still accomplished more than Curry, so he is and should be ranked higher. Curry's not done yet though, so we'll see what he's accomplished when all is said and done.

[dankok8]

For perimeter players defense is way less important than offense. No one in their right mind would argue Payton over Curry for instance. With bigs it's a different story and defense is really important. People can actually argue David Robinson over Jokic.

[SouBeachTalents]

Agreed OP. Pippen > Magic.

[Wally450]

Yikes.

[1987_Lakers]

For perimeter players defense is way less important than offense. No one in their right mind would argue Payton over Curry for instance. With bigs it's a different story and defense is really important. People can actually argue David Robinson over Jokic.

This is true, but in today's league if you are a bad man defender anywhere on the court you will be forced to switch to guard the ball handler, there was a playoff game where the Suns exposed Luka's defense, just kept going at and forcing him into switches over and over. Jason Kidd responded by making Luka "hedge and recover" so he couldn't be switched. The strategy worked, but also can be dangerous because it can leave another offensive player with an open shot if you don't recover fast enough.

[GrayGoat]

I know why op hates magic. Because Magic owns MJ in head to head matchups

[r15mohd]

I know why op hates magic. Because Magic owns MJ in head to head matchups

and is the best Laker...hard time for OP that is idol Kobe his not best at anything

[AlternativeAcc.]

Magic wasn't one dimensional and has some of the best intangibles/instincts in sports history..

Silly, atrocious comparison.

Curry is a role playing specialist and doesn't have the elite iq/feel for the game like the true greats... he's not in the same realm.

Also, Magic was a much better defender than Curry based on size and iq alone... he destroys curry overall

[3ba11]

Magic wasn't one dimensional and has some of the best intangibles/instincts in sports history..

Silly, atrocious comparison.

Curry is a role playing specialist and doesn't have the elite iq/feel for the game like the true greats... he's not in the same realm.

Also, Magic was a much better defender than Curry based on size and iq alone... he destroys curry overall


Magic couldn't hit the broadside of a barn

He couldn't shoot

So he needed goat scoring help like Kareem and couldn't win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Klay that average far less than the 1st option in the Finals..

Curry can defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), while Magic can't and therefore needs the most help in history

[AlternativeAcc.]

Magic couldn't hit the broadside of a barn

He couldn't shoot

So he needed goat scoring help like Kareem and couldn't win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Klay that average far less than the 1st option in the Finals..

Curry can defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), while Magic can't and therefore needs the most help in history

That's why he dropped 42/15/7 in game 6 finals without Kareem at age 21

Literally peaked higher than curry ever has at age 21

Not even close..

[3ba11]

That's why he dropped 42/15/7 in game 6 finals without Kareem at age 21

Literally peaked higher than curry ever has at age 21

Not even close..


That's 1 game where he was carried the whole series

That doesn't compare with Curry defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in playoffs and Finals), and therefore needing far less help..

Curry didn't need all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick and could win with secondary producers like Wiggins that required the 1st option to average far more - again, Curry had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load), while Magic was carried by Kareem and Worthy (who led the scoring and clutch)

[1987_Lakers]

Magic couldn't hit the broadside of a barn

He couldn't shoot

So he needed goat scoring help like Kareem and couldn't win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Klay that average far less than the 1st option in the Finals..

Curry can defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), while Magic can't and therefore needs the most help in history

Peak Magic was more than capable of consistently hitting mid range shots.

[AlternativeAcc.]

That's 1 game where he was carried the whole series

That doesn't compare with Curry defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in playoffs and Finals), and therefore needing far less help..

Curry didn't need all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick and could win with secondary producers like Wiggins that required the 1st option to average far more - again, Curry had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load), while Magic was carried by Kareem and Worthy (who led the scoring and clutch)

Curry has had more help and luck than any player in history by a wide margin

Using your own logic, the Duranr rings don't even count

And the 2 other rings came against injured teams and garbage comp.

Wiggins outplayed the Celtics 1st option, and Curry was carried in every category but scoring

Try again

[3ba11]

Curry has had more help and luck than any player in history by a wide margin

Using your own logic, the Duranr rings don't even count

And the 2 other rings came against injured teams and garbage comp.

Wiggins outplayed the Celtics 1st option, and Curry was carried in every category but scoring

Try again


Wiggins.> Kareem?

You'd rather say that than concede that 3ball is right

[AlternativeAcc.]

Wiggins.> Kareem?

You'd rather say that than concede that 3ball is right

You'd rather create silly strawmans as a defense mechanism while getting destroyed

To each their own

[3ba11]

You'd rather create silly strawmans as a defense mechanism while getting destroyed

To each their own


Everything that I say is historical record

You simply failed at refuting the thread title by claiming that Curry had more help, which implies that Wiggins > Kareem

So you lost

[AlternativeAcc.]

Everything that I say is historical record

You simply failed at refuting the thread title by claiming that Curry had more help, which implies that Wiggins > Kareem

So you lost

Magic peaked higher than Curry in the playoffs at age 21 WITHOUT Kareem while dominating in every facet

I refuted your OP and the strawmans you've presented along the way

[3ba11]

Magic peaked higher than Curry in the playoffs at age 21 WITHOUT Kareem while dominating in every facet

I refuted your OP and the strawmans you've presented along the way



1980 Finals

Kareem..... 33 ppg
Magic........ 21 ppg


2022 Finals

Curry.......... 32 ppg
Wiggins..... 18 ppg


Kareem and Curry defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load in Finals), which is RARE

Otoh, Magic was just a "pippen" in nearly every playoff run or Finals and he never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load)

[AlternativeAcc.]

1980 Finals

Kareem..... 33 ppg
Magic........ 21 ppg


2022 Finals

Curry.......... 32 ppg
Wiggins..... 18 ppg


Kareem and Curry defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load in Finals), which is RARE

Otoh, Magic was just a "pippen" in nearly every playoff run or Finals and he never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load)

What about competition, what about the other players on the roster. What about intangibles ... essentially what about context

Basically you're worse than a casual fan because your arguments involve literally zero amounts of context

Why are you like this?

[G0ATbe]

Does this mean Currys better than anyone Jordan ever faced?

[sdot_thadon]

Curry will pass the late great Kobe Bean Bryant when he gets #5 next year

Ahh, right back around to the stupid circular rangz argument. So here's your predictable play op, latch yourself to Curry's wagon, pray he gets one more ring so you can "prove" he's better than Lebron, while praying to whatever God you worship that he doesn't end up with 7, right?

But you always forget about this guy
https://cdn-qa.nba.com/manage/2022/01/96NSBB160087Russell-scaled.jpg

Nope.

[3ba11]

What about competition, what about the other players on the roster. What about intangibles ... essentially what about context

Basically you're worse than a casual fan because your arguments involve literally zero amounts of context

Why are you like this?


Wiggins was Curry's best teammate, while Magic had several teammates that were superior, including Kareem

It's not even close and I'm surprised that you are refuting anything

You're forgetting that the one time Magic averaged 30 and carried the scoring load - it was so ball-dominant that his 1 seed was massively upset by KJ in 1990

So Magic can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat good teams (too ball-dominant), so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to match his Finals scoring.

Otoh, an off-ball expert like Curry can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat good teams, so he can win with secondary producers like Wiggins