Shaq DEVELOPED Kobe

[StrongLurk]

Through Shaq's unique combination of physical talents and skilled ball (particularly off-ball), he was able to develop Kobe while Shaq still dominated the NBA himself to the tune of three straight finals wins/MVPs. Kobe was just a fledgling coming into the league, nothing too noteworthy as the 13th pick and someone who was traded on draft day.

We can owe a lot of Kobe's success to Shaq's dominance. Kobe was able to get playoff and even finals experience with Shaq even though he put up a putrid 15.6 ppg on 41 TS% in the 2000 finals. Just a shame Kobe couldn't accept being number 2 for so long and legit ran Shaq out of town. Kobe is one of the GOATS, but I can't rank him over Shaq all time even though they are both top 10 players.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yep

And Kobe went on to win 2 garbage rings against bogus comp which further inflated his legacy

He had by far the most help in those seasons relative to his comp, so I don't weight them heavily at all

They weren't quite curry level (garbage nickelodeon rings) - but they were close

[Real Men Wear Green]

A few days or weeks ago some dumbass said that Bryant developed Derek Fisher. This is about as bad as that. It's like the two sets of trolls are competing to see who can be a dumber ****.

[3ba11]

Kobe led the 2000 playoffs in clutch ppg (last 5 within 5), while Shaq was nothing in the clutch.

Kobe also led the 01' and 02' Playoffs

So Kobe was the Lakers' closer and the triangle has zero rings without Kobe/MJ - they invented the footwork needed to score a lot in that offense

[3ba11]

A few days or weeks ago some dumbass said that Bryant developed Derek Fisher. This is about as bad as that. It's like the two sets of trolls are competing to see who can be a dumber ****.


MJ developed Grant, BJ and Pippen from single-digit rookies into viable producers

Otoh, what rookie or young player did Lebron develop?

Surely a player with high IQ will have a good track record of developing young players and good teammate fits, as needed to win organically

lol .. now try to find some red herring to avoid addressing the substance, per your standard

[Real Men Wear Green]

MJ developed Grant, BJ and Pippen from single-digit rookies into viable producers

Otoh, what rookie or young player did Lebron develop?

Surely a player with high IQ will have a good track record of developing young players and good teammate fits, as needed to win organically

lol .. now try to find some red herring to avoid addressing the substance, per your standard
I didn't say James developed anyone so your point is completely irrelevent as per usual. I am not trying to give players credit for the hard work of other players. But what made your "point" especially stupid was that you give Bryant credit for "developing" Fisher when Fisher was a point guard that just walked the ball up passed it to Kobe and then went to go stand in a corner and hopefully hit a three when the defense cheated off of him. You relentlessly slam "Bron Ball" for deemphasizing the point guard when Kobe's game did the exact same thing. In reality neither guy had a bad approach, both players won enough to make such criticism irrelevant, But you want to demonize James for dominating the ball when you're too stupid to see that Bryant did that too he just was more likely to shoot while James is more of a passer.

[Chick Stern]

Shaq couldn’t win a ring with LeBron

The reality is with the exception of Caron, and a couple of others, any player who played at least two seasons with Kobe, played their best when with him.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Shaq couldn’t win a ring with LeBron

The reality is with the exception of Caron, and a couple of others, any player who played at least two seasons with Kobe, played their best when with him.
You really think no one knows Shaq was too old when he played with James? That we can't look up statistics? What is the benefit of posting stupid shit?

[3ba11]

I didn't say James developed anyone so your point is completely irrelevent as per usual. I am not trying to give players credit for the hard work of other players. But what made your "point" especially stupid was that you give Bryant credit for "developing" Fisher when Fisher was a point guard that just walked the ball up passed it to Kobe and then went to go stand in a corner and hopefully hit a three when the defense cheated off of him. You relentlessly slam "Bron Ball" for deemphasizing the point guard when Kobe's game did the exact same thing. In reality neither guy had a bad approach, both players won enough to make such criticism irrelevant, But you want to demonize James for dominating the ball when you're too stupid to see that Bryant did that too he just was more likely to shoot while James is more of a passer.


The triangle doesn't allow ball-dominance, so don't pretend that Kobe was breaking the offense a majority of the time - he wasn't..

The triangle required a certain low-dribble footwork to score a lot and Kobe mastered this footwork (goat midrange game).

Kobe's ability to average 30 in a low-dribble offense like the triangle and win with that offense is a goat achievement..

Lebron doesn't have this skill - his Luka-style skillset couldn't play in the triangle and would require a different coach or offense.

There are stats that tell this story... Kobe had a higher assisted rate (off-ball), better ball movement teams (higher team assist) and goat teammate fits, so he could win organically.. Whereas Lebron's skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters - he literally deceases their assists and increases their assisted rate, so he lacks the chemistry and brand to win organically..

[AlternativeAcc.]

The triangle doesn't allow ball-dominance, so don't pretend that Kobe was breaking the offense a majority of the time - he wasn't..

The triangle required a certain low-dribble footwork to score a lot and Kobe mastered this footwork (goat midrange game).

Kobe's ability to average 30 in a low-dribble offense like the triangle and win with that offense is a goat achievement..

Lebron doesn't have this skill - his Luka-style skillset couldn't play in the triangle and would require a different coach or offense.

There are stats that tell this story... Kobe had a higher assisted rate (off-ball), better ball movement teams (higher team assist) and goat teammate fits, so he could win organically.. Whereas Lebron's skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooters - he literally deceases their assists and increases their assisted rate, so he lacks the chemistry and brand to win organically..

Kobe never won without the best help, LeBron has

Kobe always had the best help when he won... so your theory sucks

[1987_Lakers]

The triangle doesn't allow ball-dominance, so don't pretend that Kobe was breaking the offense a majority of the time - he wasn't..

Lol, you clearly never saw a Laker game once Shaq left. Super cringe post.

[3ba11]

Kobe never won without the best help, LeBron has

Kobe always had the best help when he won... so your theory sucks


Heading into the 15' season, Klay/Dray hadn't been all-stars yet, while Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars - that's why the Cavs were the preseason favorite in 15' and 16.

Lebron's super-teams had 3 go-to options (elite 1st options), while the Warriors only had 1, so Curry had to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals).

Lebron actually hand-picked the preseason favorite from 11-16' (6 straight years)..... and also 20' and 21'.. That's every year that he won the title plus a lot more where he actually lost with the preseason favorite (11', 14', 21', 22')




Kobe never won without the best help, LeBron has

Kobe always had the best help when he won... so your theory sucks


Lebron's super-teams were the only teams in history where 3 guys teamed up that averaged 24-25+ the prior year - it was three elite 1st options consolidating power on 1 team, aka unprecedented.

Imagine if Booker teamed up with Joker and KAT - this would consolidate power and ruin any real competition in that conference.. Yet somehow Lebron is viewed as goat for being a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy), thereby never learning how to win (organic, aka chemistry)..

Despite being gifted Year 1 favorites in 11' and 15' (easiest path possible), he has a pathetic 4/20 championship frequency - not top 10

[Atlantis]

If Kobe played 30-40 minutes a game his rookie year he would've developed even faster. Why would an all-time great player's development be contingent on a teammate?

You're trying to make Kobe out to be like some average dude with an average mentality.

He's not.

If Shaq didn't exist, Kobe's career would be more or less the same as it was. His rise to greatness was not some accident or being at the right place at the right time, but the natural outcome of an internal drive that would've crushed all obstacles in its path.

If you don't know this deep down in your heart, you're not a Kobe fan.

[Atlantis]

Through Shaq's unique combination of physical talents and skilled ball (particularly off-ball), he was able to develop Kobe while Shaq still dominated the NBA himself to the tune of three straight finals wins/MVPs. Kobe was just a fledgling coming into the league, nothing too noteworthy as the 13th pick and someone who was traded on draft day.

We can owe a lot of Kobe's success to Shaq's dominance. Kobe was able to get playoff and even finals experience with Shaq even though he put up a putrid 15.6 ppg on 41 TS% in the 2000 finals. Just a shame Kobe couldn't accept being number 2 for so long and legit ran Shaq out of town. Kobe is one of the GOATS, but I can't rank him over Shaq all time even though they are both top 10 players.

Why is it a shame? Why should an all-time great player continue to defer to another all-time great player according to some flawed definition of seniority that doesn't apply to those who are truly great, who end up breaking the rules anyway? You're trying to superimpose your warped mentality of what Kobe should've done in situation X when a transcendent talent isn't going to see things the same way.

You're not a real Kobe fan. You're just a hater. The truest sign of a Kobe hater is rehashing this tired narrative that was used to try to diminish him throughout his career.

[ShawkFactory]

If Kobe played 30-40 minutes a game his rookie year he would've developed even faster. Why would an all-time great player's development be contingent on a teammate?

You're trying to make Kobe out to be like some average dude with an average mentality.

He's not.

If Shaq didn't exist, Kobe's career would be more or less the same as it was. His rise to greatness was not some accident or being at the right place at the right time, but the natural outcome of an internal drive that would've crushed all obstacles in its path.

If you don't know this deep down in your heart, you're not a Kobe fan.

It’s an ironic post addressing 3balls spam threads. He’s (jokingly) blindly ascribing a players development to a teammate.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Kobe didn't run Shaq out - Dr Buss made the decision to ship out the Big Aristotle because he didn't want to pay him what he wanted and if anything it was Phil Jackson making it an ultimatum for either him or Kobe. Then you mix in PJ's contract demands again it falls to Buss not wanting to renew Jacksons contract.

Plus ownership didn't want to run the triangle anymore which they abandoned anyway once GP and Malone arrived to town in that disaster season.

[StrongLurk]

It’s an ironic post addressing 3balls spam threads. He’s (jokingly) blindly ascribing a players development to a teammate.

No no...that can't be what I'm doing. Kobe's development solely relied on Shaq's supreme physical talents and basketball skills (particularly off-ball). Compared to a more limited player like MJ who could only develop Pippen (uber talented 5th overall pick) into a "trash player", Shaq was able to develop a traded, unwanted 13th pick high schooler into one of the top 8 basketball players of all time.

Kobe may have airballed a bunch of clutch shots in the playoffs, and even played terrible in their first finals together (15.6ppg on 41 TS%), but Shaq's constant carry jobs including his all-time 2000 carry job gave Kobe the TASTE/EXPERIENCE of the finals. This was the biggest motivating factor in Kobe's career, hence the immediate jump in Kobe's production after. Of course, Kobe eventually went off the rails and tried to snag a FMVP in 2004 at the cost of the Lakers, and then immediately drove Shaq out after his failure...

[8Ball]

A few days or weeks ago some dumbass said that Bryant developed Derek Fisher. This is about as bad as that. It's like the two sets of trolls are competing to see who can be a dumber ****.

You do realize these threads are all genesis from 3ball retard threads and just a parody?

This thread is literally birthed from the stupid "jordan developed Pippen" bullshit.

[2much_knowledge]

Through Shaq's unique combination of physical talents and skilled ball (particularly off-ball), he was able to develop Kobe while Shaq still dominated the NBA himself to the tune of three straight finals wins/MVPs. Kobe was just a fledgling coming into the league, nothing too noteworthy as the 13th pick and someone who was traded on draft day.

We can owe a lot of Kobe's success to Shaq's dominance. Kobe was able to get playoff and even finals experience with Shaq even though he put up a putrid 15.6 ppg on 41 TS% in the 2000 finals. Just a shame Kobe couldn't accept being number 2 for so long and legit ran Shaq out of town. Kobe is one of the GOATS, but I can't rank him over Shaq all time even though they are both top 10 players.

If your are gonna mention the 15.6, at least mention the ankle injury too

[MadDog]

Facetious or not, you sound like a casual talking about Shaq's "offball" skill. Dude just ran to the cup and went back to the basket. How did Shaq "develop" Kobe with an entirely different playstyle and skillset.

[Full Court]

Otoh, what rookie or young player did Lebron develop?






Lebron developed Kyle Kuzma.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gq.com%2Fphotos%2F619d44c7f 3b9613312e5a58d%2F16%3A9%2Fw_2560%252Cc_limit%2Fst ory%252520dnc%252520259207888_4588755407868444_173 4975685078234037_n.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1

[Gohan]

A few days or weeks ago some dumbass said that Bryant developed Derek Fisher. This is about as bad as that. It's like the two sets of trolls are competing to see who can be a dumber ****.


Stop picking on the Down syndrome kids on this board

[rawimpact]

If I had to credit anyone with KBs development during his professional career, it would have to be Phil Jackson

As far as development of skills goes, well, I think we can all agree Jordan would be that person.

[Rysio]

Playing next to a huge star like shaq helped or motivated him to become a huge star himself so in a way he did develop kobe lol.

[StrongLurk]

Thread cliffs.

Kobe's development solely relied on Shaq's supreme physical talents and basketball skills (particularly off-ball). Compared to a more limited player like MJ who could only develop Pippen (uber talented 5th overall pick) into a "trash player", Shaq was able to develop a traded, unwanted 13th pick high schooler into one of the top 8 basketball players of all time.

Kobe may have airballed a bunch of clutch shots early in his career in the playoffs, and even played terrible in their first finals together (15.6ppg on 41 TS%), but Shaq's constant carry jobs including his all-time 2000 carry job gave Kobe the TASTE/EXPERIENCE of the finals. This was the biggest motivating factor in Kobe's career, hence the immediate jump in Kobe's production after. Of course, Kobe eventually went off the rails a bit and tried to snag a FMVP in 2004 at the cost of the Lakers, and then immediately drove Shaq out after his failure...

P.S. THIS IS NOT A KNOCK ON KOBE. I already said he's one of the 8 best players of all time. This is just the historical record that Shaq developed Kobe and ultimately, Shaq > Kobe on all time lists.

[John8204]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsENSlsSXQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0R4KX6N6-Y

Jerry West developed Kobe...you can even see the guys Kobe patterned his game after...Jerry, Baylor, and Oscar.

[Cali Syndicate]

Yep

And Kobe went on to win 2 garbage rings against bogus comp which further inflated his legacy

He had by far the most help in those seasons relative to his comp, so I don't weight them heavily at all

They weren't quite curry level (garbage nickelodeon rings) - but they were close

Kobe beat bogus comp yet beat the teams that lebron failed against. Lol

[FilmyCogTurner]

If I had to credit anyone with KBs development during his professional career, it would have to be Phil Jackson

As far as development of skills goes, well, I think we can all agree Jordan would be that person.

I would say Tex Winter and the Mr. Basketball himself, they seemed like Kobe's strongest allies when he first entered the league.

Jackson obviously taught him a lot but he was Shaq's guy through and through, not until 2004 did PJ start warming up to KB.

[Atlantis]

StrongLurk is the first poster I've ever put on an ignore list...on any message board ever. There's something about him/her that really gets on my nerves.

[FKAri]

Kobe literally gave birth to Shaq.

[StrongLurk]

StrongLurk is the first poster I've ever put on an ignore list...on any message board ever. There's something about him/her that really gets on my nerves.

Whose alt is this? :lol

[RRR3]

Whose alt is this? :lol
Some butthurt Kobe stan who doesn't get that this thread is a joke.

[8Ball]

Thread cliffs.

Kobe's development solely relied on Shaq's supreme physical talents and basketball skills (particularly off-ball). Compared to a more limited player like MJ who could only develop Pippen (uber talented 5th overall pick) into a "trash player", Shaq was able to develop a traded, unwanted 13th pick high schooler into one of the top 8 basketball players of all time.

Kobe may have airballed a bunch of clutch shots early in his career in the playoffs, and even played terrible in their first finals together (15.6ppg on 41 TS%), but Shaq's constant carry jobs including his all-time 2000 carry job gave Kobe the TASTE/EXPERIENCE of the finals. This was the biggest motivating factor in Kobe's career, hence the immediate jump in Kobe's production after. Of course, Kobe eventually went off the rails a bit and tried to snag a FMVP in 2004 at the cost of the Lakers, and then immediately drove Shaq out after his failure...

P.S. THIS IS NOT A KNOCK ON KOBE. I already said he's one of the 8 best players of all time. This is just the historical record that Shaq developed Kobe and ultimately, Shaq > Kobe on all time lists.

My God. Imagine spending 9 years writing like a total retard and thinking it convinced anyone.

This is an accurate portrayal of 3ball posting.

Welldone.

[8Ball]

StrongLurk is the first poster I've ever put on an ignore list...on any message board ever. There's something about him/her that really gets on my nerves.

This is a 3ball parody thread buddy.

Replace Shaq and Kobe with Jordan and Pippen and its exactly how 3ball types his bullshit