Isiah Thomas was 24-19 vs MJ in their head to head matchups

[GrayGoat]

Thomas loved to beat MJ

[FultzNationRISE]

100%.

MJ knew how to score, but Isiah new how to win.


MJ couldnt make the leap to being a winner until....


https://i.postimg.cc/wBLQqPp4/Along-Came-Scottie.jpg

[tontoz]

That's because he had 1st team All-NBA defender Dumars to guard Jordan. He also had DPOY Rodman and a bunch of strong interior defenders like Salley, Laimbeer, Mahorn etc to beat up Jordan when he got past Dumars.

Isiah was standing around watching the action, guarding spot up shooter Paxon.

[GrayGoat]

That's because he had 1st team All-NBA defender Dumars to guard Jordan. He also had DPOY Rodman and a bunch of strong interior defenders like Salley, Laimbeer, Mahorn etc to beat up Jordan when he got past Dumars.

Isiah was standing around watching the action, guarding spot up shooter Paxon.

Yeah standing around gets you 20pts 9 asts in the 90’s

[Johnny32]

mj was all the greats favorite whipping boy in the 80s. then they all got old...mcd's, gatorade, nike, stern stepped in...and the rest is manufactured superstar history.

[tontoz]

Yeah standing around gets you 20pts 9 asts in the 90’s


First of all Isiah never averaged 20/9 in the 90s. :oldlol:

Secondly my post was about defense.

:facepalm

[RRR3]

Crazy how Isiah gets all the credit for those Pistons teams when they were legit stacked and he wasn’t even a top 5 player when he played.

[8Ball]

Thomas loved to beat MJ

IT destroyed Jordan 3 years in a row.

[TheMan]

100%.

MJ knew how to score, but Isiah new how to win.


MJ couldnt make the leap to being a winner until....


https://i.postimg.cc/wBLQqPp4/Along-Came-Scottie.jpg

Thomas had the luxury of playing with All Stars like Dantley, Aguirre, Dumars and Rodman for most of their matchups...once MJ had a supporting cast, he decimated IT and Co., especially in their later matchups, it's called CONTEXT...

[TheMan]

mj was all the greats favorite whipping boy in the 80s. then they all got old...mcd's, gatorade, nike, stern stepped in...and the rest is manufactured superstar history.

You are either a GOAT troll or an absolute moron, I'm thinking it's the latter.

And if you want to talk whipping boy, LBJ more than holds his own in that department, Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD, Klay, Iggy own his soul :confusedshrug:

[Bacchus]

Curry has a career 15-7 playoff record versus James
Jordan also has won more games in the finals than James while playing 20 less games
Lebron has a bronze medal. How is that possible playing with a bunch of all-stars?

[GrayGoat]

Curry has a career 15-7 playoff record versus James
Jordan also has won more games in the finals than James while playing 20 less games
Lebron has a bronze medal. How is that possible playing with a bunch of all-stars?

Whose alt is this? Cuz I’m about to smack the shit out of it

[3ba11]

The Pistons had 3x all-star at every starting spot (Rodman was 2x), while Jordan didn't have any teammates with all-star resumes for most of those games

But when the casts were closer, Jordan almost never lost to Isiah

Even when the Bulls won in 1991, their cast < Pistons and Pistons were preseason favorite

[GrayGoat]

The Pistons had 3x all-star at every starting spot (Rodman was 2x), while Jordan didn't have any teammates with all-star resumes for most of those games

But when the casts were closer, Jordan almost never lost to Isiah

Even when the Bulls won in 1991, their cast < Pistons and Pistons were preseason favorite
So Isiah maximized his teammates while MJ couldn’t

[8Ball]

Thomas had the luxury of playing with All Stars like Dantley, Aguirre, Dumars and Rodman for most of their matchups...once MJ had a supporting cast, he decimated IT and Co., especially in their later matchups, it's called CONTEXT...

Suddenly context matters? You apply zero context for LeBron.


Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD are all better than IT individually by light years.

[TheMan]

Suddenly context matters? You apply zero context for LeBron.


Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD are all better than IT individually by light years.

You sure about that? Google top NBA players all time, IT is there, half of your list ain't :confusedshrug:

[Johnny32]

You are either a GOAT troll or an absolute moron, I'm thinking it's the latter.

And if you want to talk whipping boy, LBJ more than holds his own in that department, Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD, Klay, Iggy own his soul :confusedshrug:

so it takes 4 all time greats on the same team to beat lebron? brilliant argument, tardboy

[Full Court]

It was a big part of the learning experience for Jordan. As a young player he tried to do everything himself. He was the most talented player in the league, but it's a team sport. Getting beaten helped him realize he had to change. Phil Jackson's mentorship was also a big factor.

And then he three-peated twice and became the GOAT. End of story.


And 20 years after he retires Bronies are STILL trying to do damage control. :lol

[3ba11]

It was a big part of the learning experience for Jordan. As a young player he tried to do everything himself.





^^^ that's what they say on cable tv - but the historical record tells a different story:


[Indent]1989 ECF

Jordan...... 30 on 46%
Pippen........ 9 on 40%[/inden

Yet you're blaming Jordan?.... :biggums:

Jordan would've won from 88-90' with almost anyone else in Pippen's place.

89' Pippen wasn't some all-defender or multiple-time all-star that was averaging 20+ like the studs who join Lebron (Hughes, Jamison, Westbrook, Bosh, Love, Rose, etc) - so Jordan wasn't "diminishing" an established star or not including Pippen in 89'... Pippen just sucked as a young player despite growing by leaps and bounds alongside Jordan (2nd year Pippen doubled his scoring average from his rookie year).

And name something that Phil taught Jordan - the media says that he told Jordan to find Paxson and therefore taught Jordan to pass, except Jordan was already averaging 11 assists and averaged more assists under Collins than Phil.

So Phil didn't teach Jordan anything - J
it's Jordan that should get the credit for making the triangle work - he was the one tasked with averaging 36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals in a low-dribble offense.. People say that Jordan "toned it down" to win, but that's false - he averaged 41 in the 93' Finals and 36 in the prior Finals... His shot attempts INCREASED during both three-peat playoffs - Jordan's highest burdens came on the back leg of the 3-peat (93', 98') where he averaged 30 fga.. Only Jordan could win as scoring champ, so he's the only guy that DIDN'T have to tone it down.






It was a big part of the learning experience for Jordan. As a young player he tried to do everything himself.





89' Jordan took the Pistons to 6 games with 9 on 40% from Pippen..

So do you think Jordan would've won with Worthy in place of Pippen?

I'll give the obvious answer - Jordan would've 3-peated from 87-89' with "Piston-Killer" Worthy.

Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back championsi in 87' and 88' - this includes FMVP in 88', and also 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF to carry the Lakers to the Finals.. Worthy averaged 24 on 57% for the 87' run and led the Lakers in ppg for the 87-91' Playoffs..

Alongside Worthy, Jordan wouldn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load), so his assists and defense would go even higher.

This is the case for most guys in Pippen's place..

And Pippen requires goat scoring help, so the expensive offensive needs (finding expensive scorers and shooters) make it harder for GM's to build a great defensive team.. Otoh, it's easier to build a great defensive team around a great offensive players like Worthy or Reggie Miller since they require less of the expensive offensive help - you can just surround them with cheap defenders.

[3ba11]

It was a big part of the learning experience for Jordan. As a young player he tried to do everything himself.





^^^ that's what they say on cable tv - but the historical record tells a different story:



1989 ECF

Jordan...... 30 on 46%
Pippen........ 9 on 40%


Yet you're blaming Jordan?.... :biggums:

Jordan would've won from 88-90' with almost anyone else in Pippen's place.

89' Pippen wasn't some all-defender or multiple-time all-star that was averaging 20+ like the studs who join Lebron (Hughes, Jamison, Westbrook, Bosh, Love, Rose, etc) - so Jordan wasn't "diminishing" an established star or not including Pippen in 89'... Pippen simply sucked as a young player despite growing by leaps and bounds alongside Jordan (2nd year Pippen doubled his scoring average from his rookie year).

And name something that Phil taught Jordan - the media says that he told Jordan to find Paxson and therefore taught Jordan to pass, except Jordan was already averaging 11 assists and averaged more assists under Collins than Phil.

So Phil didn't teach Jordan anything.. It's Jordan that should get the credit for making the triangle work - he was the one tasked with averaging 36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals in a low-dribble offense (34/7/7 for 91-93' Playoffs)..

People say that Jordan "toned it down" to win, but that's false - he averaged 41 in the 93' Finals and 36 in the prior Finals... His shot attempts INCREASED during both three-peat playoffs - Jordan's highest burdens came on the back leg of the 3-peat (93', 98') where he averaged 30 fga.. Only Jordan could win as scoring champ, so he's the only guy that DIDN'T have to tone it down.






It was a big part of the learning experience for Jordan. As a young player he tried to do everything himself.





89' Jordan took the Pistons to 6 games with 9 on 40% from Pippen..

So do you think Jordan would've won with Worthy in place of Pippen?

I'll give the obvious answer - Jordan would've 3-peated from 87-89' with "Piston-Killer" Worthy.

Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back championsi in 87' and 88' - this includes FMVP in 88', and also 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF to carry the Lakers to the Finals.. Worthy averaged 24 on 57% for the 87' run and led the Lakers in ppg for the 87-91' Playoffs..

Alongside Worthy, Jordan wouldn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load), so his assists and defense would go even higher.

This is the case for most guys in Pippen's place..

And Pippen requires goat scoring help, so the expensive offensive needs (finding expensive scorers and shooters) make it harder for GM's to build a great defensive team.. Otoh, it's easier to build a great defensive team around a great offensive player like Worthy or Reggie Miller because they require less of the expensive offensive help - you can just surround them with cheap defenders

[Full Court]

^^^ that's what they say on cable tv - but the historical record tells a different story:


[Indent]1989 ECF

Jordan...... 30 on 46%
Pippen........ 9 on 40%[/inden

Yet you're blaming Jordan?.... :biggums:

Jordan would've won from 88-90' with almost anyone else in Pippen's place.

89' Pippen wasn't some all-defender or multiple-time all-star that was averaging 20+ like the studs who join Lebron (Hughes, Jamison, Westbrook, Bosh, Love, Rose, etc) - so Jordan wasn't "diminishing" an established star or not including Pippen in 89'... Pippen just sucked as a young player despite growing by leaps and bounds alongside Jordan (2nd year Pippen doubled his scoring average from his rookie year).

And name something that Phil taught Jordan - the media says that he told Jordan to find Paxson and therefore taught Jordan to pass, except Jordan was already averaging 11 assists and averaged more assists under Collins than Phil.

So Phil didn't teach Jordan anything - J
it's Jordan that should get the credit for making the triangle work - he was the one tasked with averaging 36/7/8 in the 91-93' Finals in a low-dribble offense.. People say that Jordan "toned it down" to win, but that's false - he averaged 41 in the 93' Finals and 36 in the prior Finals... His shot attempts INCREASED during both three-peat playoffs - Jordan's highest burdens came on the back leg of the 3-peat (93', 98') where he averaged 30 fga.. Only Jordan could win as scoring champ, so he's the only guy that DIDN'T have to tone it down.






89' Jordan took the Pistons to 6 games with 9 on 40% from Pippen..

So do you think Jordan would've won with Worthy in place of Pippen?

I'll give the obvious answer - Jordan would've 3-peated from 87-89' with "Piston-Killer" Worthy.

Worthy was #1 option on back-to-back championsi in 87' and 88' - this includes FMVP in 88', and also 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF to carry the Lakers to the Finals.. Worthy averaged 24 on 57% for the 87' run and led the Lakers in ppg for the 87-91' Playoffs..

Alongside Worthy, Jordan wouldn't have to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load), so his assists and defense would go even higher.

This is the case for most guys in Pippen's place..

And Pippen requires goat scoring help, so the expensive offensive needs (finding expensive scorers and shooters) make it harder for GM's to build a great defensive team.. Otoh, it's easier to build a great defensive team around a great offensive players like Worthy or Reggie Miller since they require less of the expensive offensive help - you can just surround them with cheap defenders.

No, I'm not "blaming" Jordan. He was the best player in the league. But he had to build up a team before he could win a championship. That's just a fact. He put on one of the greatest individual performances of all time scoring 63 points against Bird and the Celtics, but the Bulls still lost. He had to build up Grant, and yes, Pippen, etc. in order to win.

And Phil Jackson deserves a lot of credit for building up the team too. Jordan doesn't get all of it. One the best player ever learned how to play team ball, they became a dynasty.

[TheMan]

so it takes 4 all time greats on the same team to beat lebron? brilliant argument, tardboy

Kawhi and Duncan ok, where do you rank TParker and Manu on the All Time GOAT rankings? Above LeFraud? Yeah, me too. Go write more anti-MJ posts you mouthbreathing Le******.

[nayte]

Youre arguing with a dude who says he has been fighting the so called battle since 98 lol.if he is that old it's embarrassing the way he posts or he is full of crap

[Johnny32]

Kawhi and Duncan ok, where do you rank TParker and Manu on the All Time GOAT rankings? Above LeFraud? Yeah, me too. Go write more anti-MJ posts you mouthbreathing Le******.

i'm not the tard who listed half a teams roster as players lebron lost to, dumbass.

[Johnny32]

players who used jordone as their personal fluffer in the 80s before daddy stern changed the rules for him.

cummings
moncrief
pierce
bird
mchale
parish
walton
ainge
dj
isiah
dantley
laimbeer
rodman
dumars
vinny
aguirre
salley
edwards
mahorn

hurrr

[Johnny32]

No, I'm not "blaming" Jordan. He was the best player in the league. But he had to build up a team before he could win a championship. That's just a fact. He put on one of the greatest individual performances of all time scoring 63 points against Bird and the Celtics, but the Bulls still lost. He had to build up Grant, and yes, Pippen, etc. in order to win.

And Phil Jackson deserves a lot of credit for building up the team too. Jordan doesn't get all of it. One the best player ever learned how to play team ball, they became a dynasty.

mj's "greatest individual performance of all time"

Jordan's primary assignments shot 12-of-19, and 11 of the 19 attempts were uncontested (8-of-11). All in all, the Celtics scored 31 points when Jordan was the primary defender in the game, the most allowed by any player on either side.

lol @ the hypocrisy.

[TheMan]

^^^Le****** over here must've seen Jordan **** his momma or something with the amount of vitriol this ********** has for someone that doesn't even know he exists...seek help, dude. It's not healthy walking around with so much hate.

Meanwhile, how many of LeFraud's Finals defensive assignments won FMVP on LeBum's watch? Anyone? I know there are quite a few...

[Johnny32]

^^^Le****** over here must've seen Jordan **** his momma or something with the amount of vitriol this ********** has for someone that doesn't even know he exists...seek help, dude. It's not healthy walking around with so much hate.

players who used jordone as their personal fluffer in the 80s before daddy stern changed the rules for him.

cummings
moncrief
pierce
bird
mchale
parish
walton
ainge
dj
isiah
dantley
laimbeer
rodman
dumars
vinny
aguirre
salley
edwards
mahorn

hurrr

[TheMan]

^^^Le****** over here must've seen Jordan **** his momma or something with the amount of vitriol this ********** has for someone that doesn't even know he exists...seek help, dude. It's not healthy walking around with so much hate.

Meanwhile, how many of LeFraud's Finals defensive assignments won FMVP on LeBum's watch? Anyone? I know there are quite a few...
Anyone?

[1987_Lakers]

Suddenly context matters? You apply zero context for LeBron.


Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD are all better than IT individually by light years.

True, funny how Bron haters always bring up his record vs another individual player but completely ignore MJ went 1-3 vs Isiah by their logic.

[Johnny32]

lol not only did mj get torched on the defensive end he also choked twice in that 63 pt game lol. imagine if they held their childhood hero to the same standards they currently hold a 37 yr old to. embarrassing tards are embarrassing and retarded.

[jayfan]

Suddenly context matters? You apply zero context for LeBron.


Dirk, KG, PP, Steph, Kawhi, Duncan, Manu, TParker, Steph, KD are all better than IT individually by light years.


You are tripping hard, my guy.

.

[TheMan]

How much does MJ still being consensus GOAT by landslide margins 20 years into LeFraud's career hurt your feewings? Cry those salty tears, LeQueers :roll:

Keep on making posts throwing shade at the GOAT, maybe someday they'll actually convince someone...:lol

[Johnny32]

the truth hurts their nostalgic middle aged feelings.

leawwww.

[1987_Lakers]

How much does MJ still being consensus GOAT by landslide margins 20 years into LeFraud's career hurt your feewings? Cry those salty tears, LeQueers :roll:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2004777

https://c.tenor.com/zzfoznvCRakAAAAM/over-its.gif

[jayfan]

Crazy how Isiah gets all the credit for those Pistons teams when they were legit stacked and he wasn’t even a top 5 player when he played.


1. Isiah doesn't get all the credit.

2. Isiah was absolutely a top 5 player when he played.


Other than that, great post.

.

[Johnny32]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2004777

https://c.tenor.com/zzfoznvCRakAAAAM/over-its.gif

ouchie.

[TheMan]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2004777

https://c.tenor.com/zzfoznvCRakAAAAM/over-its.gif

Cherrypicking...the one poll that was controlled by Bran stans like yourself yet disregarding all the other RealGM polls where Jordan easily won. You ain't fooling anyone, bro. You know MJ is still easily the consensus GOAT by a majority of experts and casuals.

Try again.

Anyways, I'm off to do weekend things, meanwhile enjoy posting all day here like the LeLosers y'all are.

:cheers:

[tontoz]

1. Isiah doesn't get all the credit.

2. Isiah was absolutely a top 5 player when he played.


Other than that, great post.

.


5th was the highest Isiah ever was in MVP voting and it happened only once. He was in the top 10 only 4 times (5th, 9th twice, 8th)

His last All-NBA team was in '87. During their Finals years Dumars made All-NBA but Isiah didn't.

[1987_Lakers]

Cherrypicking...the one poll that was controlled by Bran stans like yourself yet disregarding all the other RealGM polls where Jordan easily won. You ain't fooling anyone, bro. You know MJ is still easily the consensus GOAT by a majority of experts and casuals.

Try again.

Anyways, I'm off to do weekend things, meanwhile enjoy posting all day here like the LeLosers y'all are.

:cheers:

Enjoy meeting with the cousin. :cheers:

[Johnny32]

anyway thatchick admitted she doesn't even watch basketball anymore. it appears she only comes here to defend her childhood hero's precious legacy. imagine legoat fans still posting here in 2050 all bitter and shit. lol it takes a special kind of loser.

[Rake2204]

If this were tennis, that 24-19 head-to-head record would hold a lot of weight in itself.

Since basketball is a team game, however, I think context is pretty important here.

Those Bad Boys era Pistons deserve a lot of credit for doing what they did. They were one of the deepest teams of all-time composed of a bunch of guys who all understood what it meant to sacrifice for the sake of the team. Sometimes it didn't even feel like there was a starting unit and a bench unit, it was just varying degrees of waves. If it was Isiah's night, so be it. If it was Joe's night, Isiah would defer. And if Vinnie was hot, then either Isiah or Joe wouldn't hesitate to cheer him on from the bench. Similar story in the frontcourt, but from a defensive perspective.

Isiah Thomas was amazing, but of course he didn't win those games alone. In fact, one of his greatest career revelations came when he realized that if he were to sacrifice his individual numbers to a variable degree, it'd benefit his team as a whole (making them more diverse and tougher to stop).

Really, if you go back to watch any of those series ranging from '88 to '91 (which has become tougher in recent days with YouTube cracking down on full length games), it's not too difficult to see how Michael Jordan's Bulls evolved over time and how Jordan was generally the one constant through each of those years. He wasn't perfect, but he was always Michael Jordan.

I'd say, in each series from 1988, 1989, 1990, and 1991, the correct team won. Michael Jordan's supporting cast couldn't hold a candle to those Pistons in '88 and '89 and the fact '89 went six games is a testament to Jordan himself. Honestly, I didn't even think the Bulls were ready in 1990 but they were able to push that series the distance. By '91, those were two teams heading in complete opposite directions. It was like Jordan's kid brothers finally grew up (Pippen and Grant) while the Pistons were an injured dumpster fire after the first month of that season.

That individual head-to-head record, to me I guess, should be a testament to how good those Pistons were as a whole and not necessarily any kind of definitive statement about individual players themselves.

[NBAGOAT]

Cherrypicking...the one poll that was controlled by Bran stans like yourself yet disregarding all the other RealGM polls where Jordan easily won. You ain't fooling anyone, bro. You know MJ is still easily the consensus GOAT by a majority of experts and casuals.

Try again.

Anyways, I'm off to do weekend things, meanwhile enjoy posting all day here like the LeLosers y'all are.

:cheers:

yea those previous polls are from previous years and lebron's still playing. His resume is going get better each year lol. You can laugh at him last year but 2020 certainly helped his resume at least. You shouldnt be posting much if you couldnt even figure this out logically.

[Johnny32]

yea those previous polls are from previous years and lebron's still playing. His resume is going get better each year lol. You can laugh at him last year but 2020 certainly helped his resume at least. You shouldnt be posting much if you couldnt even figure this out logically.

hmm. lebron averaged 30 ppg on the highest 2pt% for a 30 ppg scorer in nba history. not sure laughing at him is an accurate description of his individual play last season.

[kawhileonard2]

Yet Jordan won 3x more titles than him in the same era.

[SATAN]

Cherrypicking...the one poll that was controlled by Bran stans like yourself yet disregarding all the other RealGM polls where Jordan easily won. You ain't fooling anyone, bro. You know MJ is still easily the consensus GOAT by a majority of experts and casuals.

Try again.

Anyways, I'm off to do my cousin, meanwhile enjoy posting all day here like the LeLosers y'all are.

:cheers:

Seething.

[TheGoatest]

Isiah beat that ass in 1987.
jordon came back in 1988 and said "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"
Isiah happily obliged and beat that ass again.
In 1989 jordon came back yet again and Isiah slapped him silly for the third straight year.
After that, the washed Isiah and his washed teammates felt sorry for jordon and threw him a crumb.

[tontoz]

Isiah beat that ass in 1987.
jordon came back in 1988 and said "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"
Isiah happily obliged and beat that ass again.
In 1989 jordon came back yet again and Isiah slapped him silly for the third straight year.
After that, the washed Isiah and his washed teammates felt sorry for jordon and threw him a crumb.

Isiah was washed at 29?

[jayfan]

Yet Jordan won 3x more titles than him in the same era.


Same era? No.


.

[Rake2204]

Isiah was washed at 29?

No, but he did undergo what was supposed to be season-ending wrist surgery in January, only to skip his rehabilitation so he could return for the postseason, though he could not comfortably shoot jump shots initially upon his return.

By then, the wheels had pretty much fallen off for the Pistons that year. They finished the regular season with a 17-18 stretch, Isiah was hurt, Joe Dumars had a chronic foot malady, and guys were going through that classic locker room turmoil with accusations of players no longer caring about the on-court outcome. SI had a feature story on the team's downfall in March. https://vault.si.com/vault/1991/03/18/out-of-sync-with-isiah-thomas-hurt-and-other-players-also-dealing-with-injuries-detroit-is-struggling

In the 1991 Eastern Conference Finals, I've always felt there were two statements that were true at the same time: The Bulls were better than they'd ever been in Jordan's career up to that point and the Pistons were the worst they'd ever been during their years of contention. After needing to go the distance just to beat a 43-win Hawks team in the first round and needing a miracle overtime bank shot to eliminate Larry Bird's corpse in six games in the semis, the outcome against Chicago that year worked out exactly as it should have.

To come back to Isiah's age though, just about that entire Pistons team fell off a cliff and '91 was the start (in fact, the prospect of Bill Laimbeer retiring was even a talking point in the 1990 Finals). Isiah, Laimbeer, Mark Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, William Bedford, and Gerald Henderson would all be out of the league by '94 with John Salley and James Edwards mostly relegated to 12th man duties by that same point or shortly thereafter. Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman were really the only two players to come out of that era with a semblance of a productive career ahead of them.

[Baller789]

Didnt know Isiah played Jordan one on one 43x.

[TheGoatest]

Isiah was washed at 29?

:oldlol: Isiah was RETIRED at 32.

[HoopsNY]

No, but he did undergo what was supposed to be season-ending wrist surgery in January, only to skip his rehabilitation so he could return for the postseason, though he could not comfortably shoot jump shots initially upon his return.

By then, the wheels had pretty much fallen off for the Pistons that year. They finished the regular season with a 17-18 stretch, Isiah was hurt, Joe Dumars had a chronic foot malady, and guys were going through that classic locker room turmoil with accusations of players no longer caring about the on-court outcome. SI had a feature story on the team's downfall in March. https://vault.si.com/vault/1991/03/18/out-of-sync-with-isiah-thomas-hurt-and-other-players-also-dealing-with-injuries-detroit-is-struggling

In the 1991 Eastern Conference Finals, I've always felt there were two statements that were true at the same time: The Bulls were better than they'd ever been in Jordan's career up to that point and the Pistons were the worst they'd ever been during their years of contention. After needing to go the distance just to beat a 43-win Hawks team in the first round and needing a miracle overtime bank shot to eliminate Larry Bird's corpse in six games in the semis, the outcome against Chicago that year worked out exactly as it should have.

To come back to Isiah's age though, just about that entire Pistons team fell off a cliff and '91 was the start (in fact, the prospect of Bill Laimbeer retiring was even a talking point in the 1990 Finals). Isiah, Laimbeer, Mark Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, William Bedford, and Gerald Henderson would all be out of the league by '94 with John Salley and James Edwards mostly relegated to 12th man duties by that same point or shortly thereafter. Joe Dumars and Dennis Rodman were really the only two players to come out of that era with a semblance of a productive career ahead of them.

This is true. Though I think most people will say the '91 Bulls would more than likely have beaten the '89 and '90 Pistons. Both the Pistons and Lakers weren't full strength in the '91 ECF and finals; and Zeke wasn't the same as you've pointed out.

[warriorfan]

Bron got his ass whooped by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

[GrayGoat]

Bron got his ass whooped by Jason Terry in the NBA Finals

You getting your ass whooped by a drug addiction

[Axe]

You getting your ass whooped by a drug addiction
:milton

[warriorfan]

You getting your ass whooped by a drug addiction

That’s highwhey bro. :lol