Which decade has the most top 20 all time players at their peak?

[Johnny32]

60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's crazy lebron has seen three different eras and has always been the best player during all of them, competing with multiple top 20 peaks during each one

Greatest athlete of all time by a big margin.

[Johnny32]

It's crazy lebron has seen three different eras and has always been the best player during all of them, competing with multiple top 20 peaks during each one

Greatest athlete of all time by a big margin.

lol it really is insane. dude has been contending for championships in all 3 decades also. compare that to someone like mj who has an embarrassing 6 year window and he was done.

[John8204]

50's - Mikan
60s - wilt, Pettit, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem, Stockton
00s - duncan, kobe, Dirk
10s to currently - legoat, curry

For me it's 60's

[Johnny32]

50's - Mikan
60s - wilt, Pettit, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem, Stockton
00s - duncan, kobe, Dirk
10s to currently - legoat, curry

For me it's 60's

that's really your top 20? can you post it in order?

[Gohan]

Add iverson to the 00s list

[Johnny32]

Add iverson to the 00s list

no

[tontoz]

Shaq was drafted in '92 but somehow doesn't count in the 90s.

:facepalm

Not to mention Malone, DRob, Barkley

[Johnny32]

shaq's peak isn't the 90s dumbfk.

[Johnny32]

it's kind of funny how mj's once thought of all-time great competition is getting exposed for what it really was as the years go on...overrated trash. it's only getting worse too with leluka and jokic coming.

[tontoz]

shaq's peak isn't the 90s dumbfk.


Shaq averaged 29/13 in his 2nd season dumbfk.

[Johnny32]

Shaq averaged 29/13 in his 2nd season dumbfk.

gl arguing shaq peaked in the 90s before his first championship, dumb fk.

[Johnny32]

lol jordan fangirls are so insecure.

"plz wuv my childhood hero's era even if it's watered down and historically weak as fk, plz"

lol so pathetic and embarrassing.

[tontoz]

gl arguing shaq peaked in the 90s before his first championship, dumb fk.

Where did you mention team success in the title of the thread?

Team success and peak as a player are two different things. Not surprised you don't understand the difference.

[Johnny32]

Where did you mention team success in the title of the thread?

Team success and peak as a player are two different things. Not surprised you don't understand the difference.

the desperation is absolutely embarrassing.

[Johnny32]

let's rank these eras from best to worst using this criteria...(most 20 top all time players at their peak)

1. current gen
2. 60s
3. 00s
4. 80s
5. 70s
6. 90s

[tontoz]

the desperation is absolutely embarrassing.


Shaq averaged 20/9 in 05/06 compared to 29/13 in 93/94. I agree your desperation is embarrassing.

[Johnny32]

Shaq averaged 20/9 in 05/06 compared to 29/13 in 93/94. I agree your desperation is embarrassing.

hurrr, he avg 30/15 in b2b playoff runs ending with fmvp in the 00s. mouth breathing tard, ignored.

[John8204]

that's really your top 20? can you post it in order?

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. KAJ
6. Bill
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. West
12. Duncan
13. Moses
14. Hakeem
15. Curry
16. Stockton
17. Dr. J
18. Dirk
19. Pettit
20. Havlicek

And here's roughly my top 110

21-30
Barkley, Baylor, CPIII, Durant, Frazier, KG, Giannis, Gervin, Iverson, Shaq,
31-40
Barry, Leonard, Kidd, K. Malone, Maravich, Reed, Robisnon, Thomas, Thurmond, Wade
41-50
Archibald, Arizin, Ewing, Harden, Hayes, Jokic, McHale, Payton, Pippen, Walton
51-60
Cousy, Drexler, Embiid, English, Miller, Nash, Pierce, Rodman, Schayes, Wilkins
61-70
Allen, Carmello, Cowens, Gilmore, Lillard, McAdoo, Moncrief, Mullin, Unseld, Worthy
71-80
Davis, Howard, D. Johnson, Klay, Lucas, Monroe, Mourning, Mutombo, Parish, Westbrook
81-90
Cunningham, Dantley, Doncic, Greer, Issel, S.Jones, McGrady, Parker, Richmond, Wilkens
91-100
Booker, Carter, Daniels, Debuschere, Gobert, B. Jones, Lanier, King, Kyrie, Webber
101-110
Bing, Butler, Cheeks,Dumars, Fulks, Gola, Hill, Johnston, Sharmann, Sikma

I rank guys based on generation and position

[Johnny32]

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. KAJ
6. Bill
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. West
12. Duncan
13. Moses
14. Hakeem
15. Curry
16. Stockton
17. Dr. J
18. Dirk
19. Pettit
20. Havlicek

And here's roughly my top 110

21-30
Barkley, Baylor, CPIII, Durant, Frazier, KG, Giannis, Gervin, Iverson, Shaq,
31-40
Barry, Leonard, Kidd, K. Malone, Maravich, Reed, Robisnon, Thomas, Thurmond, Wade
41-50
Archibald, Arizin, Ewing, Harden, Hayes, Jokic, McHale, Payton, Pippen, Walton
51-60
Cousy, Drexler, Embiid, English, Miller, Nash, Pierce, Rodman, Schayes, Wilkins
61-70
Allen, Carmello, Cowens, Gilmore, Lillard, McAdoo, Moncrief, Mullin, Unseld, Worthy
71-80
Davis, Howard, D. Johnson, Klay, Lucas, Monroe, Mourning, Mutombo, Parish, Westbrook
81-90
Cunningham, Dantley, Doncic, Greer, Issel, S.Jones, McGrady, Parker, Richmond, Wilkens
91-100
Booker, Carter, Daniels, Debuschere, Gobert, B. Jones, Lanier, King, Kyrie, Webber
101-110
Bing, Butler, Cheeks,Dumars, Fulks, Gola, Hill, Johnston, Sharmann, Sikma

I rank guys based on generation and position

jesus at top 110 lol i won't nitpick it...impressive list.

[tontoz]

hurrr, he avg 30/15 in b2b playoff runs ending with fmvp in the 00s. mouth breathing tard, ignored.

So what? He just had a better team. As an individual he was clearly better in the 90s, he just didn't play with prime Kobe and Wade.

Shaq started declining in '03 and was completely washed by 06. Give him prime Kobe and Wade in the 90s he would have a lot more rings.

[Johnny32]

tontoz
NBA Superstar

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someone inform the desperate 90s tard he's done.

[Johnny32]

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. KAJ
6. Bill
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. West
12. Duncan
13. Moses
14. Hakeem
15. Curry
16. Stockton
17. Dr. J
18. Dirk
19. Pettit
20. Havlicek

And here's roughly my top 110

21-30
Barkley, Baylor, CPIII, Durant, Frazier, KG, Giannis, Gervin, Iverson, Shaq,
31-40
Barry, Leonard, Kidd, K. Malone, Maravich, Reed, Robisnon, Thomas, Thurmond, Wade
41-50
Archibald, Arizin, Ewing, Harden, Hayes, Jokic, McHale, Payton, Pippen, Walton
51-60
Cousy, Drexler, Embiid, English, Miller, Nash, Pierce, Rodman, Schayes, Wilkins
61-70
Allen, Carmello, Cowens, Gilmore, Lillard, McAdoo, Moncrief, Mullin, Unseld, Worthy
71-80
Davis, Howard, D. Johnson, Klay, Lucas, Monroe, Mourning, Mutombo, Parish, Westbrook
81-90
Cunningham, Dantley, Doncic, Greer, Issel, S.Jones, McGrady, Parker, Richmond, Wilkens
91-100
Booker, Carter, Daniels, Debuschere, Gobert, B. Jones, Lanier, King, Kyrie, Webber
101-110
Bing, Butler, Cheeks,Dumars, Fulks, Gola, Hill, Johnston, Sharmann, Sikma

I rank guys based on generation and position

lol i do have one question. how do you justify shaq at 30th all time lol?

[John8204]

Shaq didn't really have a "peak" he had years when he was in shape and years he wasn't..for me as I gut who watched him for his entire career Orlando Shaq was the best Shaq

QUOTE=Johnny32;14639542]lol i do have one question. how do you justify shaq at 30th all time lol?[/QUOTE]

He's top 25(the lists are alphabetical) but I have him 7th at his position

1. Wilt
2. KAJ
3. Russel
4. Mikan
5. M. Malone
6. Hakeem
7. Shaq
8. Robinson
9. Thurmond
10. Reed

He was not better than Olajuwon but he was slightly better then Dave Robinson

[Johnny32]

Shaq didn't really have a "peak" he had years when he was in shape and years he wasn't..for me as I gut who watched him for his entire career Orlando Shaq was the best Shaq

in the playoffs 3-peat shaq was by far his peak and it isn't close.

[tontoz]

Lol kid gets punk'd so he has to run and hide.

In the 03/04 playoffs Shaq averaged 21.5 ppg. Dat peak :bowdown:

[NBAGOAT]

Lol kid gets punk'd so he has to run and hide.

In the 03/04 playoffs Shaq averaged 21.5 ppg. Dat peak :bowdown:

04 shaq isn’t worth mentioning but op is right if he’s looking at peaks. 00 is universally recognized as his peak. Best stats and impact of his career, maybe only year of his career he played all nba defense. Had that elite playoff run etc. calling Orlando Shaq his peak is just arguing to argue

[Johnny32]

@john8204

mikan just no. my cutoff is the 60s. moses only championship came after he joined a team that went to the finals the previous season. winning isn't everything but you can't only have one ring and be over shaq, imo. he was pretty much unstoppable 99-02. moses maybe better reg season player but no at postseason.

[Johnny32]

04 shaq isn’t worth mentioning but op is right if he’s looking at peaks. 00 is universally recognized as his peak. Best stats and impact of his career, maybe only year of his career he played all nba defense. Had that elite playoff run etc. calling Orlando Shaq his peak is just arguing to argue

he's an idiot.

[Mask the Embiid]

The 90’s!





https://i.postimg.cc/GhG6z4cd/8827-EC1-B-047-A-480-F-95-A7-DB188-DDFD46-F.gif

[Johnny32]

The 90’s!





https://i.postimg.cc/GhG6z4cd/8827-EC1-B-047-A-480-F-95-A7-DB188-DDFD46-F.gif

lmao

[tontoz]

04 shaq isn’t worth mentioning but op is right if he’s looking at peaks. 00 is universally recognized as his peak. Best stats and impact of his career, maybe only year of his career he played all nba defense. Had that elite playoff run etc. calling Orlando Shaq his peak is just arguing to argue

That is just one year, and for the record it was 99/00.

Overall he was far more productive in the 90s and it isn't close.

He averaged 29/13 in 93/94 and 29/14 in 99/00. He actually shot better in Orlando, 60% vs 57.5% in LA.

[NBAGOAT]

That is just one year, and for the record it was 99/00.

Overall he was far more productive in the 90s and it isn't close.

He averaged 29/13 in 93/94 and 29/14 in 99/00. He actually shot better in Orlando, 60% vs 57.5% in LA.

Most people count the season that ends as part of the decade right. Could be wrong. Also production doesn’t change the fact that the 3 best years of Shaqs career are 00-02. He has the playoff runs every year, played more games during regular season and his improvement as a passer isn’t big but makes him more impactful on offense. High in Orlando is 4.3a/100 while he’s around the 5s/100 range in 00 and 01 and 4.3 in 02. Shaq has injury and laziness issues from 96-99 too that prevent those from being his best season. Again I’ve never seen this seriously debated by anyone til this thread

[colts19]

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. KAJ
6. Bill
7. Magic
8. Mikan
9. Kobe
10. Oscar
11. West
12. Duncan
13. Moses
14. Hakeem
15. Curry
16. Stockton
17. Dr. J
18. Dirk
19. Pettit
20. Havlicek

And here's roughly my top 110

21-30
Barkley, Baylor, CPIII, Durant, Frazier, KG, Giannis, Gervin, Iverson, Shaq,
31-40
Barry, Leonard, Kidd, K. Malone, Maravich, Reed, Robisnon, Thomas, Thurmond, Wade
41-50
Archibald, Arizin, Ewing, Harden, Hayes, Jokic, McHale, Payton, Pippen, Walton
51-60
Cousy, Drexler, Embiid, English, Miller, Nash, Pierce, Rodman, Schayes, Wilkins
61-70
Allen, Carmello, Cowens, Gilmore, Lillard, McAdoo, Moncrief, Mullin, Unseld, Worthy
71-80
Davis, Howard, D. Johnson, Klay, Lucas, Monroe, Mourning, Mutombo, Parish, Westbrook
81-90
Cunningham, Dantley, Doncic, Greer, Issel, S.Jones, McGrady, Parker, Richmond, Wilkens
91-100
Booker, Carter, Daniels, Debuschere, Gobert, B. Jones, Lanier, King, Kyrie, Webber
101-110
Bing, Butler, Cheeks,Dumars, Fulks, Gola, Hill, Johnston, Sharmann, Sikma

I rank guys based on generation and position

Switch Shaq and Mikan, then if you are talking peaks I would move Walton up quite a bit, if you talking careers I would leave him where he is at. good list anyway.

[tontoz]

Most people count the season that ends as part of the decade right. Could be wrong. Also production doesn’t change the fact that the 3 best years of Shaqs career are 00-02. He has the playoff runs every year, played more games during regular season and his improvement as a passer isn’t big but makes him more impactful on offense. High in Orlando is 4.3a/100 while he’s around the 5s/100 range in 00 and 01 and 4.3 in 02. Shaq has injury and laziness issues from 96-99 too that prevent those from being his best season. Again I’ve never seen this seriously debated by anyone til this thread


Again team success is a separate issue. Put prime Kobe or Wade with him in Orlando, and replace them with Penny in the 00s, and things look a lot different.

His regular season and playoff averages are higher in the 90s. He was actually a transition threat in the 90s. Not so much in the 00s :oldlol:

[Johnny32]

Most people count the season that ends as part of the decade right. Could be wrong. Also production doesn’t change the fact that the 3 best years of Shaqs career are 00-02. He has the playoff runs every year, played more games during regular season and his improvement as a passer isn’t big but makes him more impactful on offense. High in Orlando is 4.3a/100 while he’s around the 5s/100 range in 00 and 01 and 4.3 in 02. Shaq has injury and laziness issues from 96-99 too that prevent those from being his best season. Again I’ve never seen this seriously debated by anyone til this thread

anything to defend their precious.

[NBAGOAT]

Again team success is a separate issue. Put prime Kobe or Wade with him in Orlando, and replace them with Penny in the 00s, and things look a lot different.

His regular season and playoff averages are higher in the 90s.

Wade years are past his prime, I don’t care about those. When I say playoff runs, yes I mean he played better too. Yes kobe is superior to penny, the rest of the lakers roster wasn’t the Magic’s either. I’ll counter with if you replace 00-02 shaq with Orlando shaq, they might win only 1 title. The blazers kings series were that close

[tontoz]

Wade years are past his prime, I don’t care about those. When I say playoff runs, yes I mean he played better too. Yes kobe is superior to penny, the rest of the lakers roster wasn’t the Magic’s either. I’ll counter with if you replace 00-02 shaq with Orlando shaq, they might win only 1 title. The blazers kings series were that close


Exactly. He was already past his prime in '04. That is the point.

He averaged 29/13 way back in 93/94. How can that not be considered part of his prime?

[Johnny32]

60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?

it has to be asked. why do "we" not count russell's but do count jordone's again?

[NBAGOAT]

Exactly. He was already past his prime in '04. That is the point.

He averaged 29/13 way back in 93/94. How can that not be considered part of his prime?

Thread says peak not prime, that’s one year according to most people.

[John8204]

@john8204

mikan just no. my cutoff is the 60s. moses only championship came after he joined a team that went to the finals the previous season. winning isn't everything but you can't only have one ring and be over shaq, imo. he was pretty much unstoppable 99-02. moses maybe better reg season player but no at postseason.

He has 1 more "ring" but he has 7 championships in 8 seasons which puts him in comparison with Jordan.

5× BAA/NBA champion (1949, 1950, 1952–1954)
2× NBL champion (1947, 1948)

He was #2 in efficiency, changed the way basketball was played (we have a shot clock because of him) and his teammates were significantly weaker than Shaqs. We do not have an NBA without Mikan. For me people love Shaq because he's the guy people grew up with but if I'm judging him as a player...

Hakeem - better
Dirk - better
Baylor - better
Shaq -
KG - close
Barkley - close

Shaq also didn't really beat any "great teams" during his entire career. I think he has a losing record against The Spurs and Pistons, he got knocked out by The Jazz and The Bulls. If it wasn't for a crooked ref we might be talking about the Trailblazers or Kings.

[tontoz]

Thread says peak not prime, that’s one year according to most people.


That is news to me, especially when the whole point of the thread is comparing decades.

Not to mention picking a season that started in the 90s.

[John8204]

Switch Shaq and Mikan, then if you are talking peaks I would move Walton up quite a bit, if you talking careers I would leave him where he is at. good list anyway.

I have always said the 77' title is the greatest NBA championship of all-time...I can't put a guy in the top ten at center with just 5 great seasons

11. Ewing
12. Jokic
13. Walton
14. Hayes
15.Embiid

[NBAGOAT]

That is news to me, especially when the whole point of the thread is comparing decades.

It’s a pointless comparison but basically asking which decade has the most best year of someone’s career among top 20 player. One reason it’s pointless is top 20 players aren’t necessarily the guys who had the 20 best single seasons.

[tontoz]

It’s a pointless comparison but basically asking which decade has the most best year of someone’s career among top 20 player. One reason it’s pointless is top 20 players aren’t necessarily the guys who had the 20 best single seasons.

The most best year?

I certainly didn't take it as the best single year and even if we do take it that way Shaq's best year started in the 90s lol.

I took it as a comparison between decades, which one had the most top 20 players when they were at the best. The comparison was between decades. Picking out one year doesn't make sense when comparing one decade to another.

OP was clearly trying to take a shot at the 90s. That was the whole point of the thread.

[Johnny32]

It’s a pointless comparison but basically asking which decade has the most best year of someone’s career among top 20 player. One reason it’s pointless is top 20 players aren’t necessarily the guys who had the 20 best single seasons.

the idea was stolen from a different board with much more knowledgeable posters than here. your opinion on it being pointless or not isn't relevant.

[PeroAntic]

The only reason why the 90s don't have as many top 20 players as the other decades is because to be a top 20 player you need rings and Jordan took that away from everyone in that decade. god damn op is an absolute ****ing moron.

[Johnny32]

i wish i could block the mj stantard and the foreigner from posting in my topic.

[Johnny32]

The only reason why the 90s don't have as many top 20 players

literally stopped reading to point and laugh at your tears.

[NBAGOAT]

the idea was stolen from a different board with much more knowledgeable posters than here. your opinion on it being pointless or not isn't relevant.

Link it please

[Johnny32]

The only reason why the 90s don't have as many top 20 players as the other decades is because to be a top 20 player you need rings and Jordan took that away from everyone in that decade. god damn op is an absolute ****ing moron.

the rest of your post is false anyway. players who peaked in the 90s that were considered top 20ish all time when jordone quit the game for a second time in 98.

drob
malone
barkley
pippen
stockton
ewing
clyde

fast forward 25 years...rip your warm and fuzzy memories of the nba's golden era.

life sucks, eh fatboy?

[PeroAntic]

literally stopped reading to point and laugh at your tears.
Seriously do you have brain damage or something?

[PeroAntic]

the rest of your post is false anyway. players who peaked in the 90s that were considered top 20ish all time when jordone quit the game for a second time in 98.

drob
malone
barkley
pippen
stockton
ewing
clyde

fast forward 25 years...rip your warm and fuzzy memories of the nba's golden era.

life sucks, eh fatboy?

If rings are not taken into account these players are easily as good as today's stars, you buffoon.

[tontoz]

For the record the Bleacher Report has Malone, Barkley and DRob in the top 20.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854727-bleacher-reports-all-time-player-rankings-nbas-top-50-revealed

[Johnny32]

If rings are not taken into account these players are easily as good as today's stars, you buffoon.

you got shit on. walk it off, bitchboy.

[PeroAntic]

you got shit on. walk it off, bitchboy.

You are legitimately retarded. Other stains troll and banter but you are just a retarded fanatic.

[Johnny32]

You are legitimately retarded. Other stains troll and banter but you are just a retarded fanatic.

your entire argument was obliterated in 1.3 mins. now go cry to mommy about the big bad bully, lewaaaaah.

[Axe]

That is just one year, and for the record it was 99/00.

Overall he was far more productive in the 90s and it isn't close.

He averaged 29/13 in 93/94 and 29/14 in 99/00. He actually shot better in Orlando, 60% vs 57.5% in LA.
That might have something to do playing with kobe, uncle. He also won mvp once and that was in year 2000.

[PeroAntic]

your entire argument was obliterated in 1.3 mins. now go cry to mommy about the big bad bully, lewaaaaah.

Literal retard.


For the record the Bleacher Report has Malone, Barkley and DRob in the top 20.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854727-bleacher-reports-all-time-player-rankings-nbas-top-50-revealed


Lets see how you obliterate this argument, retard.

[Johnny32]

Literal retard.




Lets see how you obliterate this argument, retard.

hurrr, it's one man's laughably bad opinion and it's from 2019 lmao.

[tontoz]

hurrr, it's one man's laughably bad opinion and it's from 2019 lmao.


Right, because guys jump into the top 20 every year.

:facepalm

Steph and Durant are already in their top 20. Of the current players the only ones I can think of that are on a top 20 trajectory, not already on the list, are Giannis and Jokic.

[Johnny32]

i'll admit this guy's top 2 isn't terrible. the rest is horrific.

2. legoat james (ranked in 2019 before another championship and before he avg 30 ppg on record 2pt% for a 30 ppg scorer)

Per Game: 27.2 points, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.4 threes, 0.8 blocks

Per 75 Possessions: 27.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.5 threes, 0.8 blocks

Relative True Shooting Percentage: +4.6

Net Rating Swing: +11.4

Box Plus/Minus: 9.1

Win Shares per 48 Minutes: 0.235

LeBron James isn't just first all-time in box plus/minus; he's over a full point ahead of second-place Michael Jordan. And the distance between LeBron and MJ is about the same as the distance between Jordan and eighth-place James Harden.

In the cumulative variant of box plus/minus (think of the difference between points and points per game), LeBron's lead is starting to look like one of those untouchable records, like John Stockton's total assists.

LeBron's cushion there is about the same as the distance between second and 10th place.

Now, let's switch to playoff value over replacement player. Of course, LeBron is first again. But if the amount of value over replacement player between LeBron and second-place MJ were its own individual player, it would rank 19th in NBA history.

Now, box plus/minus is just one way of looking at a player's all-around contributions, and it's not without its flaws. But LeBron's vice grip on the NBA over the last 16 years is summed up well by this particular catch-all.

His list of accolades helps, as well: 15 All-Star selections, 15 All-NBA selections, six All-Defensive selections, four MVPs, three Finals MVPs, three championships and one scoring title.

But even all of that isn't quite enough to give LeBron the No. 1 spot. Yet. Statistically, he may be the best. But he's not the greatest. That comes from winning.

LeBron deserves credit for his nine Finals appearances (including eight straight), but the six Finals losses also have to be considered.

Rings shouldn't be the only factor in this debate. But when it's this close, stacking the 6-0 Finals record up against 3-6 is a fair tiebreaker.

And by the way, calling this "close" is probably an undersell. After examining every catch-all metric and basic number imaginable from the regular season, playoffs and 10-year peaks, it's almost impossible to find any real space between these two.

Relative dominance over each respective era was also considered. Cultural impact was a factor. The level of competition each faced and the level of talent among teammates was relevant. There are so many different angles from which to attack this impossible question.

A 1A/1B solution would honestly be understandable, but you'll get no such politicking on this list. A definitive call must be made, and the argument that holds enough weight to create any differentiation is that six is greater than three.

[tontoz]

For the record I DGAF about the goat debate. The consensus top 3 are Kareem, LeBron, MJ. Whatever order you put them in doesn't matter to me.

If those aren't in your top 3 that is a you problem.

[Johnny32]

i think we have a new 1a since this list was made.

thoughts, guys?

LeROFL

[John8204]

For the record I DGAF about the goat debate. The consensus top 3 are Kareem, LeBron, MJ. Whatever order you put them in doesn't matter to me.

If those aren't in your top 3 that is a you problem.

Wilt and Larry were better than Kareem...Kareem needed a top ten player to win and a number of his single season awards are tainted by a talent split with ABA. Kareem's records are also going to be broken...Wilt's records will never be broken. The All-time starters are established in my eyes.

C - Wilt (2)
SG - Jordan (1)
PF - Lebron (3)
SF - Bird (4)
PG - Magic (7)

[tontoz]

Wilt and Larry were better than Kareem...Kareem needed a top ten player to win and a number of his single season awards are tainted by a talent split with ABA. Kareem's records are also going to be broken...Wilt's records will never be broken. The All-time starters are established in my eyes.

C - Wilt (2)
SG - Jordan (1)
PF - Lebron (3)
SF - Bird (4)
PG - Magic (7)


Wilt had too many playoff duds and played against a lot of weak competition.

Larry's career was pretty short. He was 23 as a rookie and didn't age well. He was basically washed at 32 with that back injury. His career wasn't long enough to be considered top 3.

[John8204]

Wilt had too many playoff duds and played against a lot of weak competition.

Larry's career was pretty short. He was 23 as a rookie and didn't age well. He was basically washed at 32 with that back injury. His career wasn't long enough to be considered top 3.

That's fair.

Larry's short career is why he's not the GOAT but I would still have him top five, he had the greatest peak of any player ever IMHO.

Wilt had to play against a team with a HOFer at every position, Kareem didn't have to play seasons against Rick Barry(4 seasons), Moses Malone(2 Seasons), Mel Daniels(never had to play him), Julius Erving(5 seasons), and George Gervin(5 seasons) That's half the top ten from the 70's that Kareem didn't have to compete against. Even with that lowered level of competition he still couldn't win a championship without one of the two greatest PG's of all time...Oscar and Magic. Wilt on the other hand could pass, rebound, and score at will. He dominated the game and did things no player has ever or will ever do.

I can respect people liking Kareem but for me he's fifth

[tontoz]

Kareem never made a 3 yet he still has the all time scoring record. He was also elite on D and on the boards. His advanced number are sick, frequently leading the league in several different metrics.

There is no question that competition was tougher in the 70s and 80s than the 60s.

[John8204]

Kareem never made a 3 yet he still has the all time scoring record. He was also elite on D and on the boards. His advanced number are sick, frequently leading the league in several different metrics.

There is no question that competition was tougher in the 70s and 80s than the 60s.

You had more competition in the 70's but tougher is difficult because you had fewer roster spots so only the elite could play. It also was much harder to win in the 60's because of differences in officiating, player movement, player compensation, and player treatment. Every generation of basketball gets softer and easier. Guys left the NBA to get better paying jobs and heal up...they weren't able to just kinda coast or rebuild a low level team and win it all.

I'm not saying one generation is better than the other but they are different. I don't think Jordan, Durant, or Curry would have been able to survive in the more physical game of the 60's. On the other hand players from the 60's might not be successful in his era.

As for Kareem...he lost to a lot of centers from Cowens, Unseld, Thurmond, and Walton during his prime.

[colts19]

The only reason why the 90s don't have as many top 20 players as the other decades is because to be a top 20 player you need rings and Jordan took that away from everyone in that decade. god damn op is an absolute ****ing moron.

Didn't Russell do the same in the 60's, yet it has more all time great players without the rings.

[tontoz]

You had more competition in the 70's but tougher is difficult because you had fewer roster spots so only the elite could play. It also was much harder to win in the 60's because of differences in officiating, player movement, player compensation, and player treatment. Every generation of basketball gets softer and easier. Guys left the NBA to get better paying jobs and heal up...they weren't able to just kinda coast or rebuild a low level team and win it all.

I'm not saying one generation is better than the other but they are different. I don't think Jordan, Durant, or Curry would have been able to survive in the more physical game of the 60's. On the other hand players from the 60's might not be successful in his era.

As for Kareem...he lost to a lot of centers from Cowens, Unseld, Thurmond, and Walton during his prime.


He might have lost to them but he didn't get outplayed by them very often. I feel pretty comfortable saying that Kareem outplayed all of them head to head over their careers, by a lot.

[colts19]

i'll admit this guy's top 2 isn't terrible. the rest is horrific.

2. legoat james (ranked in 2019 before another championship and before he avg 30 ppg on record 2pt% for a 30 ppg scorer)

Per Game: 27.2 points, 7.4 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.4 threes, 0.8 blocks

Per 75 Possessions: 27.5 points, 7.5 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.5 threes, 0.8 blocks

Relative True Shooting Percentage: +4.6

Net Rating Swing: +11.4

Box Plus/Minus: 9.1

Win Shares per 48 Minutes: 0.235

LeBron James isn't just first all-time in box plus/minus; he's over a full point ahead of second-place Michael Jordan. And the distance between LeBron and MJ is about the same as the distance between Jordan and eighth-place James Harden.

In the cumulative variant of box plus/minus (think of the difference between points and points per game), LeBron's lead is starting to look like one of those untouchable records, like John Stockton's total assists.

LeBron's cushion there is about the same as the distance between second and 10th place.

Now, let's switch to playoff value over replacement player. Of course, LeBron is first again. But if the amount of value over replacement player between LeBron and second-place MJ were its own individual player, it would rank 19th in NBA history.

Now, box plus/minus is just one way of looking at a player's all-around contributions, and it's not without its flaws. But LeBron's vice grip on the NBA over the last 16 years is summed up well by this particular catch-all.

His list of accolades helps, as well: 15 All-Star selections, 15 All-NBA selections, six All-Defensive selections, four MVPs, three Finals MVPs, three championships and one scoring title.

But even all of that isn't quite enough to give LeBron the No. 1 spot. Yet. Statistically, he may be the best. But he's not the greatest. That comes from winning.

LeBron deserves credit for his nine Finals appearances (including eight straight), but the six Finals losses also have to be considered.

Rings shouldn't be the only factor in this debate. But when it's this close, stacking the 6-0 Finals record up against 3-6 is a fair tiebreaker.

And by the way, calling this "close" is probably an undersell. After examining every catch-all metric and basic number imaginable from the regular season, playoffs and 10-year peaks, it's almost impossible to find any real space between these two.

Relative dominance over each respective era was also considered. Cultural impact was a factor. The level of competition each faced and the level of talent among teammates was relevant. There are so many different angles from which to attack this impossible question.

A 1A/1B solution would honestly be understandable, but you'll get no such politicking on this list. A definitive call must be made, and the argument that holds enough weight to create any differentiation is that six is greater than three.
Lebron is like Magic in that he played in a weak conference, name one great team that he had to play in the east in order to get to the finals. The Pacers were probably by far the stiffest comp he had. That's why he lost in the finals so many times.

[warriorfan]

the desperation is absolutely embarrassing.

Nice self awareness

:lol

[John8204]

Didn't Russell do the same in the 60's, yet it has more all time great players without the rings.

Most of the all-timers from that era were able to win atleast once...

Schayes (55)
Arizin (56)
Pettit (58)
Chamberlain (67)
Frazier (70)
Reed (70)
Oscar (71)
West (72)

Only Elgin Baylor and Nate Thurmond really weren't able to break through at some point. The thing with the 90's was the multiple dynasties (Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Spurs, 76ers, Rockets). Oscar was just stuck on a terrible team..but you saw Pettit, West, and Wilt fighting Bill and later Havlicek in the 60's.

[John8204]

He might have lost to them but he didn't get outplayed by them very often. I feel pretty comfortable saying that Kareem outplayed all of them head to head over their careers, by a lot.

It's a respectable opinion we just differ on the "a lot part". Because for me on an even playing field he didn't dominate and he wasn't playing against dynasties like Wilt and Lebron were. He was able to beat them...but he didn't have the consistency. Then you have this other league with the 2nd best player of the 70's (Erving) and a bunch of other great players. I got a lot of respect for Kareem...my top eight I can see an argument for any of them being GOATS.

[Johnny32]

lol man this tontotard has been on a 6 hr posting frenzy ever since i shit down his throat on the first page. absolutely embarrassing.

[John8204]

Lebron is like Magic in that he played in a weak conference, name one great team that he had to play in the east in order to get to the finals. The Pacers were probably by far the stiffest comp he had. That's why he lost in the finals so many times.

You'd rank Indiana over Detroit, Boston, and Orlando? I thought they were on the same level as Miami and Toronto and a bit above Chicago. How many good seasons did the Pacers have?

[tontoz]

lol man this tontotard has been on a 6 hr posting frenzy ever since i shit down his throat on the first page. absolutely embarrassing.



This clown was so butthurt after getting his ignorance exposed that he had to resort to the filter. But even though he's blocked me he is still talking about me.

:roll:

Rent free

[tontoz]

It's a respectable opinion we just differ on the "a lot part". Because for me on an even playing field he didn't dominate and he wasn't playing against dynasties like Wilt and Lebron were. He was able to beat them...but he didn't have the consistency. Then you have this other league with the 2nd best player of the 70's (Erving) and a bunch of other great players. I got a lot of respect for Kareem...my top eight I can see an argument for any of them being GOATS.


So who outplayed him, or even got close, head to head?

You mentioned cowens earlier. Their head to head matchup was pretty one sided:

https://stathead.com/tiny/jgQG4

[Johnny32]

lol bruh she's still here frantically refreshing my topic desperately waiting for me to quote her lmao. someone pmed me and said she's quoted me at least 10 times since i broke her heart with the ignore feature like 4 hrs ago. so desperate, so needy, so desperate and needy.

[tontoz]

Lol he can't even argue like man, has to hide behind his couch like a coward. Meanwhile everyone else in the thread is actually talking about basketball while this clown is talking about me.

[Johnny32]

you know what i love about gamefaqs. you get the obsessive tard on a hook like this then you block em and the entire topic goes away and they can't even feebly try to defend themselves by posting in it lmao. it has to be infuriating and is the ultimate troll. this loser gets destroyed and just spam posts for 12 hrs straight. i'm sure it's annoying i haven't read even one of those posts but still not as fun.

[John8204]

So who outplayed him, or even got close, head to head?

You mentioned cowens earlier. Their head to head matchup was pretty one sided:


Except Cowens won and Kareem lost...This is Kareem's biggest issue and why I can't rank him as a clear 1-2-3 guy. He's an all-time great, and aside from Wilt I would rank him above everyone of his contemporaries at his position. But going based on my top 110...this is his head to head record

1970 - L (Reed)
1971 - W (Thurmond), (Wilt), (Unseld)
1972 - W (Thurmond), L (Wilt)
1973 - L (Thurmond)
1974 - L (Cowens)
1977 - W (Parish) L (Walton)
1978 - L (Sikma)
1979 - W (Issel), L (Sikma)
1980 - W (Sikma)
1981 - L (Malone)
1982 - (no all-time centers)
1983 - W (Gilmore) L (Malone)
1984 - L (Parish)
1985 - W (Issel), (Parish)
1986 - W (Gilmore), L (Olajuwon)
1987 - W(Parish/Walton)
1988 - (no all-time centers)
1989 - (no all-time centers)

Artis Gilmore (2-0)
Dan Issel (2-0)
Robert Parish (3-1)
Nate Thurmond (2-1)
Wes Unseld (1-0)
Bill Walton (1-1)
Wilt Chamberlain (1-1)
Jack Sikma (1-2)
Dave Cowens (0-1)
Willis Reed - (0-1)
Hakeem Olajuwon (0-1)
Moses Malone - (0-2)

(13-11), is that a record where you can say KAJ dominated his competition...he beat them but domination is a stretch. While his advanced stats might tell a different story wins and loses matter and none of those teams were really on Russell's Celtics level.

I respect Kareem and your opinion on him he's still a guy I have in my top five.

[tontoz]

Kareem outscored Cowens by 10 ppg while shooting 7% better in their head to head matchups. That isn't very competitive.

You seem to be focusing just on the team matchups and ignoring the individual matchups.

[John8204]

Kareem outscored Cowens by 10 ppg while shooting 7% better in their head to head matchups. That isn't very competitive.

You seem to be focusing just on the team matchups and ignoring the individual matchups.

Pretty much, I'm not going through 24 playoff series over a 20 year period of time. You also had the period of time between Oscar and Magic when Kareem was on the same level as everybody else and he didn't win. That's a pretty important thing...not all rings are equal. You think of him as a player that blew these guys out of the water and perhaps he outplayed them but he also lost..11 times to 8 different Centers. It's just not something I can ignore.

[72-10]

Interesting list. Bird and Magic peaked in the '90s if you ask some, as did Shaq, and Duncan was most outstanding from the start of his career. After a legendary career in college, his first game against the dynasty Bulls was a classic.

[72-10]

Dr. J actually hit his peak in the early '80s, often outplaying Bird, as his team continually barnstormed the league. The 1980-81 season for Erving as well as his team (notwithstanding the aforementioned outplaying Bird commentary) was particularly resplendent. Almost every game for Erving over four seasons from 1979-80 through 1982-83 is gold. And then there's three more years of salt.

[RRR3]

Interesting list. Bird and Magic peaked in the '90s if you ask some, as did Shaq, and Duncan was most outstanding from the start of his career. After a legendary career in college, his first game against the dynasty Bulls was a classic.
Who on earth thinks Bird or Magic peaked in the 90s? :facepalm

[72-10]

Who on earth thinks Bird or Magic peaked in the 90s? :facepalm

as far as their skill is concerned, many do, especially their passing and shooting skills which would easily beat a modern zone, be it transition or half-court set, which is saying a lot about Bird considering his back problems.

[iamgine]

60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?
Your mistake is trying to connect 'weakest era' with top 20 peak. It doesn't correlate that way.

[colts19]

Most of the all-timers from that era were able to win atleast once...

Schayes (55)
Arizin (56)
Pettit (58)
Chamberlain (67)
Frazier (70)
Reed (70)
Oscar (71)
West (72)

Only Elgin Baylor and Nate Thurmond really weren't able to break through at some point. The thing with the 90's was the multiple dynasties (Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Spurs, 76ers, Rockets). Oscar was just stuck on a terrible team..but you saw Pettit, West, and Wilt fighting Bill and later Havlicek in the 60's.

You point at MJ and say he dominated the 90's and kept any other all-time great from that time period. However Bill Russell dominated the 60's and with 9 wins in 10 years while MJ had 6 wins in 10 years of the 90's. So Wilt was the only all-time great to break thru.

[TheMan]

Shaq was drafted in '92 but somehow doesn't count in the 90s.

:facepalm

Not to mention Malone, DRob, Barkley

Shhhh, that doesn't jive with OP's agenda...

[TheMan]

Where did you mention team success in the title of the thread?

Team success and peak as a player are two different things. Not surprised you don't understand the difference.

He does, but it doesn't fit his agenda ATM, he'll go the other way when it fits his LeFraud cawksucking duties...:roll: He's a cringe machine, just like his daddy.

[TheMan]

So what? He just had a better team. As an individual he was clearly better in the 90s, he just didn't play with prime Kobe and Wade.

Shaq started declining in '03 and was completely washed by 06. Give him prime Kobe and Wade in the 90s he would have a lot more rings.

Great point about Shaq, he started declining around that time, he was an absolute beast from the get go but that doesn't help OP's agenda...why do you even bother with that retard? He actually thinks 2010s era to now has more top 20 all timers than any other previous eras, I only count 2, maybe 3 (LBJ, Curry, KD) :lol And he pretends DRob, KMalone, Barkley didn't play in the 90s as well :facepalm Good Lord he's just a complete retard SMH

[TheMan]

The most best year?

I certainly didn't take it as the best single year and even if we do take it that way Shaq's best year started in the 90s lol.

I took it as a comparison between decades, which one had the most top 20 players when they were at the best. The comparison was between decades. Picking out one year doesn't make sense when comparing one decade to another.

OP was clearly trying to take a shot at the 90s. That was the whole point of the thread.
:applause:

Dude has a raging hard on for the GOAT that his whole existence here is propping up LeFraud and dropping down MJ anyway he can, anyone with a brain cell can see through his charade.

[TheMan]

For the record the Bleacher Report has Malone, Barkley and DRob in the top 20.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2854727-bleacher-reports-all-time-player-rankings-nbas-top-50-revealed

Obviously, along with MJ, Shaq and Hakeem.

OP fail thread, what a pathetic little boy. :lol

[SATAN]

Furious.

[Gohan]

Op is a flaming phakkit

[TheGoatest]

60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?

Olajuwon being top 20 and possibly even top 10 is accurate. But him being top 10 is overwhelmingly based on what he did in the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons. If you take away those two seasons, he definitely isn't top 20.

Also, Kawhi is not top 20 yet, but he just might crack top 20 by the time his career is over, probably knocking out either of the fringe top 20ers Karl Malone or Barkley from the weak 90s, if they aren't out of the top 20 already that is. So in the end the 2010s might end up with 5 top 20 players.

[Johnny32]

Interesting list. Bird and Magic peaked in the '90s if you ask some, as did Shaq, and Duncan was most outstanding from the start of his career. After a legendary career in college, his first game against the dynasty Bulls was a classic.

Lol @ this moron.

[tontoz]

Who on earth thinks Bird or Magic peaked in the 90s? :facepalm


Seriously WTF they barely played in the 90s. :oldlol:

[Axe]

you got shit on. walk it off, bitchboy.

your entire argument was obliterated in 1.3 mins. now go cry to mommy about the big bad bully, lewaaaaah.
:oldlol:

He surely is a triggered dumbfukk.

[tontoz]

:oldlol:

He surely is a triggered dumbfukk.


Lol he couldn't make a coherent argument so he had to give up and hide behind the filter. Not surprised that Full Courts bitch would have an affinity for him. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Lmao just what tf are you talking about, uncle? What i laughed at wasn't even your beef with him if you can backread properly. :confusedshrug:

[tontoz]

Lmao just what tf are you talking about, uncle? What i laughed at wasn't even your beef with him if you can backread properly. :confusedshrug:



If you can backread properly most of his posts in this thread aren't even discussing basketball, just throwing childish insults around. the two posts you quoted are evidence of that.

It is the same thing you do literally every day. The Giannis 3 pt thread is just the lastest example.

[Axe]

Not sure what i did to trigger you lately, uncle. But you might want to tell the other trolls too, not just me. Some of them can't even stop stalking me until now ffs.

[tontoz]

Not sure what i did to trigger you lately, uncle. But you might want to tell the other trolls too, not just me. Some of them can't even stop stalking me until now ffs.


When you have the most posts in a thread, by far, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror.

When you troll relentlessly then you shouldn't complain when you get trolled.

[Axe]

What tf i wasn't even the one who started it in that thread. :oldlol:

It was an mj vs. giannis three-point thread. I just said the former sucked even with the short three-point line. Then as usual the usual scums had to bring lebron in when the topic isn't even about him. Why are you being a bitch recently, uncle?

[DMAVS41]

Olajuwon being top 20 and possibly even top 10 is accurate. But him being top 10 is overwhelmingly based on what he did in the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons. If you take away those two seasons, he definitely isn't top 20.

Also, Kawhi is not top 20 yet, but he just might crack top 20 by the time his career is over, probably knocking out either of the fringe top 20ers Karl Malone or Barkley from the weak 90s, if they aren't out of the top 20 already that is. So in the end the 2010s might end up with 5 top 20 players.

Could you list your top 20 without Hakeem.

[DMAVS41]

Right, because guys jump into the top 20 every year.

:facepalm

Steph and Durant are already in their top 20. Of the current players the only ones I can think of that are on a top 20 trajectory, not already on the list, are Giannis and Jokic.

Giannis probably already deserves to be top 20.

Luka could definitely achieve that status as well.

[tontoz]

What tf i wasn't even the one who started it in that thread. :oldlol:

It was an mj vs. giannis three-point thread. I just said the former sucked even with the short three-point line. Then as usual the usual scums had to bring lebron in when the topic isn't even about him. Why are you being a bitch recently, uncle?



Dude look at yourself. You spend several hours a day, every day, throwing childish insults around. Get a grip ffs.

As for MJ he had 4 seasons where he attempted at least 2 3s a game. In those seasons he shot...

37.6%
35.2%
42.7%
37.4%

[tontoz]

Giannis probably already deserves to be top 20.

Luka could definitely achieve that status as well.

Giannis certainly could be but guys in their 20s aren't really going to be consensus top 20. I would certainly consider him top 20 but a lot, if not most, won't. He is only 27.

Luka is just getting started.

[Axe]

So why aren't you telling them also whenever they do the same thing? Only me when they're usually the ones responsible for derailing different threads? :confusedshrug:

Come on uncle, you can do better than this. I don't want to have a quarrel with you, old man. I already have a couple of posters here still obsessed with me for several months now. :lol

[tontoz]

So why aren't you telling them also whenever they do the same thing? Only me when they're usually the ones responsible for derailing different threads? :confusedshrug:

Come on uncle, you can do better than this. I don't want to have a quarrel with you, old man. I already have a couple of posters here still obsessed with me for several months now. :lol


Who makes more nonsense name-calling posts than you? Nobody

Also other trolls don't whine " why are they picking on me" when they get trolled.

[Baller789]

Who makes more nonsense name-calling posts than you? Nobody

Bingo

[HoopsNY]

60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?

How is Giannis in the 2010s? His championship came last year and his prime began in the 2010s, but I wouldn't say his peak. And yea, Shaq's peak began in the 90s even though his ultimate peak was 2000-02.

One could argue Duncan's began in 1999. The only year that Tim Duncan looked better than he did in 1999 was 2003 IMO.

[Johnny32]

How is Giannis in the 2010s? His championship came last year and his prime began in the 2010s, but I wouldn't say his peak. And yea, Shaq's peak began in the 90s even though his ultimate peak was 2000-02.

One could argue Duncan's began in 1999. The only year that Tim Duncan looked better than he did in 1999 was 2003 IMO.

hurrr, shaq's peak began in the 90s even though his ultimate peak was 2000-02. durrr, duncan's peak was 99 but he was actually better in 03.

lol man jordone fangirls are disgustingly pathetic.

[Johnny32]

Lmao just what tf are you talking about, uncle? What i laughed at wasn't even your beef with him if you can backread properly. :confusedshrug:

don't mind him. he's very insecure and defensive after what i did to him earlier in this thread. it was deep, hard and violent.

[Axe]

Who makes more nonsense name-calling posts than you? Nobody

Also other trolls don't whine " why are they picking on me" when they get trolled.
So? Sounds like your saltiness come from lebron-curry encounters that we've had before, uncle. You can go put me on ignore if you wish.

[tontoz]

So? Sounds like your saltiness come from lebron-curry encounters that we've had before, uncle. You can go put me on ignore if you wish.


Can you even make a post about basketball without making some kind of personal comment?

3ball is probably the most obsessed troll on the forum but I don't see him running around calling people names or whining when people troll him. You seem incapable of that.

[Baller789]

Well, Axey is the resident ISH snowflake after all :oldlol:

Also incapable of shutting up if anyone has noticed. :(

[HoopsNY]

hurrr, shaq's peak began in the 90s even though his ultimate peak was 2000-02. durrr, duncan's peak was 99 but he was actually better in 03.

lol man jordone fangirls are disgustingly pathetic.

Yea, kinda like LeBron's peak began in 2009 but his ultimate peak was 2012-13. Jordan's peak is universally accepted as '88-'93. Duncan was a force in 1999. Your dad didn't nut in that prostitute who conceived you until 2005, so you don't know anything about back then.

[tontoz]

Anyone see a problem here?



https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20220717-113548.jpg

[Axe]

don't mind him. he's very insecure and defensive after what i did to him earlier in this thread. it was deep, hard and violent.
Now he's obsessed with me too. :lol

[DMAVS41]

Giannis certainly could be but guys in their 20s aren't really going to be consensus top 20. I would certainly consider him top 20 but a lot, if not most, won't. He is only 27.

Luka is just getting started.

Yea, but he's already done so much...would be hard to rank guys like Erving, Dirk, Baylor, KG, Karl Malone...over Giannis at this point.

Luka is just getting started, but he has the trajectory of a top 20 player in terms of how good he is. Doesn't mean he'll get there...he still has to get better, but probably the biggest thing that will hold him back, much like Dirk, is a lack of legit title winning supporting casts in Dallas. At his level the last couple years, he could have won titles with supporting casts similar to what has won historically imo.

[DMAVS41]

For the Shaq stuff.

Counting him in the 00's is more than fair. He probably was at his true best from 00 through 02 and he was still a monster from 03 through 05...and really good, when healthy, the rest of the decade. He only played 6 seasons in the 90's and I don't think he played his best ball in those seasons.

[tontoz]

For the Shaq stuff.

Counting him in the 00's is more than fair. He probably was at his true best from 00 through 02 and he was still a monster from 03 through 05...and really good, when healthy, the rest of the decade. He only played 6 seasons in the 90's and I don't think he played his best ball in those seasons.



Shaq was drafted in '92 so that is 7 full seasons ( and the start of season 8) averaging 27/12 for the decade.

[DMAVS41]

Shaq was drafted in '92 so that is 7 full seasons ( and the start of season 8) averaging 27/12 for the decade.

My bad...it is 7.

In my experience, you don't count half seasons...it is the 00 season. So the 90's, for example, would be seasons 90-99...00's...00-09...etc. If you guys are counting a different way...cool.

Having said that...I think it is more than fair to say Shaq was at his best in the 00's...I'd probably take 00 and 01 Shaq over any version of the 90's...and he played at a high enough level the rest of the decade...was still MVP level in 05...etc.

And for the first 7 seasons of the 00's...he was 26/11...and in the first 6 seasons of playoffs to match the 6 playoffs from the 90's...he was 27/13...

[tontoz]

My bad...it is 7.

In my experience, you don't count half seasons...it is the 00 season. So the 90's, for example, would be seasons 90-99...00's...00-09...etc. If you guys are counting a different way...cool.

Having said that...I think it is more than fair to say Shaq was at his best in the 00's...I'd probably take 00 and 01 Shaq over any version of the 90's.



As a whole he was far more productive in the 90s. '03 was the last year he averaged over 23 ppg. His weight became a consistent problem.

[DMAVS41]

As a whole he was far more productive in the 90s. '03 was the last year he averaged over 23 ppg. His weight became a consistent problem.

I disagree.

If you take the 7 seasons of the 90's and compare it to the first 7 of the 00's...it is very similar.

90's...regular season / playoffs (6)

27/12/3....27/11/3

00's...regular season / playoffs (6)

26/11/3....27/13/3

And he dominated the most, imo, in the 00 and 01 seasons....so if you are talking his peak...definitely fair to say it came in the 00's

Do you not think his peak was the 00 season based on your criteria of raw numbers? He did 30/14/4 in the regular season and the did 31/15/3 in the playoffs while leading a team to a title....and it wasn't like Kobe was the dominant force he would become. Kobe did 21/5/4 52% TS in the playoffs.

And in the finals...did 38/17/2 while Kobe did 16/5/4 (41% TS)

[tontoz]

I disagree.

If you take the 7 seasons of the 90's and compare it to the first 7 of the 00's...it is very similar.

90's...regular season / playoffs (6)

27/12/3....27/11/3

00's...regular season / playoffs (6)

26/11/3....27/13/3

And he dominated the most, imo, in the 00 and 01 seasons....so if you are talking his peak...definitely fair to say it came in the 00's

Do you not think his peak was the 00 season based on your criteria of raw numbers? He did 30/14/4 in the regular season and the did 31/15/3 in the playoffs while leading a team to a title....and it wasn't like Kobe was the dominant force he would become. Kobe did 21/5/4 52% TS in the playoffs.


In the first 7 seasons of the 00s he averaged 25/10 in the regular season compared to 27/12 in the 90s.

[DMAVS41]

In the first 7 seasons of the 00s he averaged 25/10 in the regular season compared to 27/12 in the 90s.

Are you not counting the 00 season as part of the 00's?

[tontoz]

Are you not counting the 00 season as part of the 00's?

Yes I am counting it. You aren't counting the 05/06 season averaging 20/9.

[DMAVS41]

Yes I am counting it. You aren't counting the 05/06 season averaging 20/9.

I am.

Breference has him at 26/11/3 from 00 through 06.

Your numbers must be off in some way because even if you go through the 08 season...he is still at 10.9 boards per game...so I am not sure how you are getting 10 rebounds per game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#2000-2006-sum:per_game

[Johnny32]

it's funny the board i stole this topic from has a few jordone jockers. they're trying to argue at least one of drob/malone/chuck belongs in the top 20 all time and on the 90s list. not one of them has been desperate enough to try and claim shaq's peak was the 90s though lol.

[tontoz]

I am.

Breference has him at 26/11/3 from 00 through 06.

Your numbers must be off in some way because even if you go through the 08 season...he is still at 10.9 boards per game...so I am not sure how you are getting 10 rebounds per game.


Math is obviously not your thing. Here are his point totals from 00-06 straight from bbref.

29.7
28.7
27.2
27.5
21.5
22.9
20

That is a total of 177.5/7 = 25.36.

Do I have to do the rebounds for you too?

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Math is obviously not your thing. Here are his point totals from 00-06 straight from bbref.

29.7
28.7
27.2
27.5
21.5
22.9
20

That is a total of 177.5/7 = 25.36.

Do I have to do the rebounds for you too?

:facepalm

That isn't how you do it...you have to factor in games played you clown.

Try this...https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#2000-2006-sum:per_game

LOL...this guy is calculating this by hand...holy shit.

Regardless...none of that changes that Shaq was at his best in the early 00's...which is what the word peak means...his best.

Go back to claiming KCP is better than Beal...:roll:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yes the calculator is actually right. Are you not capable of using a calculator? :roll:

Games played dumbass

Shaqs peak is universally recognized as being in the early 2000s

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Yes the calculator is actually right. Are you not capable of using a calculator? :roll:

Do you not get how you are wrong?

You have to factor in games played...which breference does for you. I even linked to it for you...he's at 25.6 / 11.4 / 3.1 for the 486 games played from 00 through 06...and he's at 27.1 / 12.2 / 2.5 for the 455 games played from 93 through 99

My god...have you been actually using a calculator when it does it for you? Holy shit...

And I'm still waiting to hear how any of this about averages, which you are wrong about, changes the fact that Shaq played his best ball in the early 00's...

[Axe]

Wonder why uncle t had to delete that calculator comment of his. :ohwell:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Wonder why uncle t had to delete that calculator comment of his. :ohwell:

:roll:

[DMAVS41]

Wonder why uncle t had to delete that calculator comment of his. :ohwell:

Not sure why...it has been quoted twice. :lol

[DMAVS41]

Games played dumbass

Shaqs peak is universally recognized as being in the early 2000s

:facepalm

This is what I'm confused about as well...what seasons in the 90's was Shaq better than he was in 00 and 01?

I saw him say something about Kobe...but Kobe wasn't really anything noteworthy in 00 when Shaq played the best I've ever seen him play....so I can't make sense of the argument.

Also, could you imagine talking shit on here about numbers...while being so wrong...thinking that what Steph Curry averaged in the 20 season in which he played 5 games...should hold as much as weight as seasons he played over 10 times more games...imagine calling someone mathematically challenged while holding that view.

This place is amazing.

[tontoz]

That isn't how you do it...you have to factor in games played you clown.

Try this...https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html#2000-2006-sum:per_game

LOL...this guy is calculating this by hand...holy shit.

Regardless...none of that changes that Shaq was at his best in the early 00's...which is what the word peak means...his best.

Go back to claiming KCP is better than Beal...:roll:


Actually I didn't know you could do that on their site. I've never tried to highlight individual seasons before.

:oldlol:

Still counting all the games makes a .24 difference.

27.1 is still more than 25.6.

[tontoz]

This is what I'm confused about as well...what seasons in the 90's was Shaq better than he was in 00 and 01?

I saw him say something about Kobe...but Kobe wasn't really anything noteworthy in 00 when Shaq played the best I've ever seen him play....so I can't make sense of the argument.

Also, could you imagine talking shit on here about numbers...while being so wrong...thinking that what Steph Curry averaged in the 20 season in which he played 5 games...should hold as much as weight as seasons he played over 10 times more games...imagine calling someone mathematically challenged while holding that view.

This place is amazing.



I think you are missing the entire point of this thread.

[DMAVS41]

Actually I didn't know you could do that on their site. I've never tried to highlight individual seasons before.

:oldlol:

Still counting all the games makes a .24 difference.

27.1 is still more than 25.6.

Cool, so you were dead wrong, as usual...

Yea, nobody said he averaged more in the 00's...I said it was similar output...which it is.

I'll ask again...what does any of that have to do with Shaq's peak? Which season in the 90's was he better than the 00 regular season and playoffs? Because just going off the raw numbers...that was clearly his best season...culminating in an all-time dominant finals...and, again, Kobe was not close to his peak as a player and really struggled in the finals with his play and due to injuries.

[tontoz]

Cool, so you were dead wrong, as usual...

Yea, nobody said he averaged more in the 00's...I said it was similar output...which it is.

I'll ask again...what does any of that have to do with Shaq's peak? Which season in the 90's was he better than the 00 regular season and playoffs? Because just going off the raw numbers...that was clearly his best season...culminating in an all-time dominant finals...and, again, Kobe was not close to his peak as a player and really struggled in the finals with his play and due to injuries.


That .24 ppg makes such a huge difference.


Again serious question. Why do you think OP made this thread?

[DMAVS41]

I think you are missing the entire point of this thread.

Which season was Shaq's best in his career?

[DMAVS41]

Again serious question. Why do you think OP made this thread?

Don't know, don't care.

I'm simply curious if you actually believe Shaq peaked in the 90's.

[AlternativeAcc.]

This is what I'm confused about as well...what seasons in the 90's was Shaq better than he was in 00 and 01?

I saw him say something about Kobe...but Kobe wasn't really anything noteworthy in 00 when Shaq played the best I've ever seen him play....so I can't make sense of the argument.

Also, could you imagine talking shit on here about numbers...while being so wrong...thinking that what Steph Curry averaged in the 20 season in which he played 5 games...should hold as much as weight as seasons he played over 10 times more games...imagine calling someone mathematically challenged while holding that view.

This place is amazing.

Yeah, the seasons after 03 are irrelevant to the convo

We're talking about peaks... and shaqs peak was in the early 2000s.

He just likes arguing nonsense and tries to create strawmans which is why he brought up the whole math thing... while it blew up in his face :oldlol:

[Johnny32]

Lol this is so embarrassing.

[DMAVS41]

That .24 ppg makes such a huge difference.


Again serious question. Why do you think OP made this thread?

You were the one making a big deal out of the numbers, you clown...and you were wrong.

You could just say, my bad...like any normal human being when they realize they are wrong like I did in this very thread when I said 6 instead of 7. It's not a big deal...people get thing wrong...you probably get things wrong more often than most, but my advice to you is to just admit it when you do.

Life is easier that way.

[tontoz]

Don't know, don't care.

I'm simply curious if you actually believe Shaq peaked in the 90's.

Exactly. That is why you aren't following the conversation.


60s - wilt, russell, oscar, west
70s - kareem, dr j, havlicek
80s - magic, bird, moses
90s - mj, hakeem
00s - duncan, shaq, kobe, kg
10s to currently - legoat, kd, curry, giannis

90s looks to be the weakest era with current gen the toughest. thoughts?



His whole point was to take a cheap shot at the 90s. Shaq averaged 27/12 in the 90s but let's just ignore that because his best season was in 2000.

Let's not forget that he had prime Kobe and prime Wade as teammates in the 00s. Don't you think that helped him win rings?

[tontoz]

You were the one making a big deal out of the numbers, you clown...and you were wrong.

You could just say, my bad...like any normal human being when they realize they are wrong like I did in this very thread when I said 6 instead of 7. It's not a big deal...people get thing wrong...you probably get things wrong more often than most, but my advice to you is to just admit it when you do.

Life is easier that way.


I did admit it. It took me minute to realize what you did because I hadn't seen that before.



Actually I didn't know you could do that on their site. I've never tried to highlight individual seasons before.

[DMAVS41]

I'll take this as you don't think Shaq peaked in the 90's.

What does any of that have to do with Kobe or Wade? Nobody, that I've seen, is arguing 05 or 06 as Shaq's peak....and the year often considered Shaq's best...Kobe was not the dominant force he'd become.

In the 00 season in the playoffs...Kobe probably was a similar level player to what Penny was in 95 and 96.

So, I'll just assume you think Shaq peaked in the 00's and are spouting a bunch of nonsense as usual...did I do that calculation correct?

[DMAVS41]

I did admit it. It took me minute to realize what you did because I hadn't seen that before.

You then acted like it doesn't matter...when you were the one making a huge deal out of the numbers...while being extremely aggressive about it...while being wrong of course.

[FKAri]

Math is obviously not your thing. Here are his point totals from 00-06 straight from bbref.

29.7
28.7
27.2
27.5
21.5
22.9
20

That is a total of 177.5/7 = 25.36.

Do I have to do the rebounds for you too?

:facepalm

You're adding up averages and dividing by years. That's doesn't really make mathematical sense.

Either way this thread is clearly another era bashing bait thread. There are so few players in the "top 20" and they will randomly fall into one decade or another. It's stupid. Like Shaq belongs to both decades imo.

[tontoz]

I'll take this as you don't think Shaq peaked in the 90's.

What does any of that have to do with Kobe or Wade?

In the 00 season in the playoffs...Kobe probably was a similar level player to what Penny was in 95 and 96.

So, I'll just assume you think Shaq peaked in the 00's and are spouting a bunch of nonsense as usual...did I do that calculation correct?


You do realize this thread is troll thread, right?

OP was just trying to crap on the 90s. That is the whole point of the thread.

Shaq averaged 29/13 in his second season. That isn't considered his peak because he got swept in the first round. Doesn't make him any less of a player though.

[DMAVS41]

You do realize this thread is troll thread, right?

OP was just trying to crap on the 90s. That is the whole point of the thread.

Shaq averaged 29/13 in his second season. That isn't considered his peak because he got swept in the first round. Doesn't make him any less of a player though.

Cool. That has nothing to do with my point or question...and never did I say Shaq wasn't a monster in the 90's.

But you are wrong about why his second season isn't considered his peak...he actually was not as good as he would become...but I'm not going to argue that with you as seem incapable of looking beyond raw numbers...even though those raw numbers say when his peak clearly was.

I merely said he was still really good for at least the first half of the 00's and his best years came in the early 00's...which I think you agree with.

I don't care, at all, about some 90's vs 00's debate...nor did I even acknowledge it. I was simply curious if you actually thought Shaq peaked in the 90's...and you don't.

Carry on.

[tontoz]

You're adding up averages and dividing by years. That's doesn't really make mathematical sense.

Either way this thread is clearly another era bashing bait thread. There are so few players in the "top 20" and they will randomly fall into one decade or another. It's stupid. Like Shaq belongs to both decades imo.

That is the point.

Yeah I didn't know that you could highlight seasons to add them. That doesn't change the fact that Shaq's averages were higher in the weak era 90s.

[tontoz]

I don't care, at all, about some 90's vs 00's debate...nor did I even acknowledge it.




That is the whole point of this thread and why I have a problem with it.


I think Shaq was better in the 90s overall than in the 00s. As far as his actual peak season that would probably 99/00 when he averaged 29.3/13.6, fractionally

[AlternativeAcc.]

That is the point.

Yeah I didn't know that you could highlight seasons to add them. That doesn't change the fact that Shaq's averages were higher in the weak era 90s.

You weren't bright enough to factor in games played which almost anyone would automatically understand

And you said Shaq peaked in the 90s when everyone knows he peaked in the 2000s.

Stop deflecting

[DMAVS41]

That is the whole point of this thread and why I have a problem with it.


I think Shaq was better in the 90s overall than in the 00s. As far as his actual peak season that would probably 99/00 when he averaged 29.3/13.6, fractionally

It goes beyond raw numbers. This will be my last post, but you need to rethink your view of the NBA if you think the only difference between Shaq in his 2nd year and Shaq in 00 is just a slight difference in raw numbers.

So so so so so much more goes into the impact of a player than just raw totals.

[Johnny32]

lol man this tontotard has got his shit pushed in more in the last 24 hrs than jenna jameson in the 80s.

[Johnny32]

let's rank the decades by most top 20 players of all time in their peak again because their hurt feelings.

1. current era (4)
2. 00s era (4)
3. 60s era (4)
4. 80s era (3)
5. 70 era (3)

w
a
y
.
d
o
w
n
.
h
e
r
e

6. 90s era (2)

lecry moar.

[John8204]

lol man this tontotard has got his shit pushed in more in the last 24 hrs than jenna jameson in the 80s.

https://c.tenor.com/zTzC8MXbyzUAAAAM/chris-hansen-have-a-seat-right-there.gif

You mean when she was between the ages of 6-16

[FKAri]

It goes beyond raw numbers. This will be my last post, but you need to rethink your view of the NBA if you think the only difference between Shaq in his 2nd year and Shaq in 00 is just a slight difference in raw numbers.

So so so so so much more goes into the impact of a player than just raw totals.

Weird thing to be so passionate about.

[tontoz]

I'm off to the golf course so the trolls will have to carry on without me but before I go...

Shaq was better in the 90s than the 00s.

[Johnny32]

let's rank the decades by most top 20 players of all time in their peak again because their hurt feelings.

1. current era (4)
2. 00s era (4)
3. 60s era (4)
4. 80s era (3)
5. 70 era (3)

w
a
y
.
d
o
w
n
.
h
e
r
e

6. 90s era (2)

lecry moar.

this needs to be on the last page cuz their hurt feelings. let's bold it up also.

[Johnny32]

let's rank the decades by most top 20 players of all time in their peak again because their hurt feelings.

1. current era (4)
2. 00s era (4)
3. 60s era (4)
4. 80s era (3)
5. 70 era (3)

w
a
y
.
d
o
w
n
.
h
e
r
e

6. 90s era (2)

lewaaaaaah

[Johnny32]

https://c.tenor.com/zTzC8MXbyzUAAAAM/chris-hansen-have-a-seat-right-there.gif

You mean when she was between the ages of 6-16

not a big porn guy, weirdo. the only name i know cuz she married a mma guy. point stands.

[John8204]

not a big porn guy, weirdo. the only name i know cuz she married a mma guy. point stands.

Look you haven't lived until you've gotten into the amputee midget porn niche.

stubby and sexy
15% off
Nubs and nips

[Johnny32]

Look you haven't lived until you've gotten into the amputee midget porn niche.

stubby and sexy
15% off
Nubs and nips

lol wtf all you man.

[John8204]

lol wtf all you man.

Pft...like I'm the only person who enjoys tickling the weasel to women missing body parts.

Next thing you're going to tell me you aren't into BBW clown porn.

[Johnny32]

Math is obviously not your thing. Here are his point totals from 00-06 straight from bbref.

29.7
28.7
27.2
27.5
21.5
22.9
20

That is a total of 177.5/7 = 25.36.

Do I have to do the rebounds for you too?

:facepalm

lmao never forget

[tontoz]

lmao never forget


Yeah he got me but let's be real that .24 difference isn't exactly material to the argument.

27.1 in the 90s is still greater than 25.6 in the 00s.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yeah he got me but let's be real that .24 difference isn't exactly material to the argument.

27.1 in the 90s is still greater than 25.6 in the 00s.

You were the one crying about .15 difference because he said shaq averaged 26 instead of 25.34, which turns out wasn't the right number anyways

Also, shaq peaked in the early 2000s, so 7 year totals don't mean anything

So your 27 vs 25.6 is irrelevant bogus nonsense

[tontoz]

You were the one crying about .15 difference because he said shaq averaged 26 instead of 25.34, which turns out wasn't the right number anyways

Also, shaq peaked in the early 2000s, so 7 year totals don't mean anything

So your 27 vs 25.6 is irrelevant bogus nonsense


Of course it is to a LeBron Stan that is trying to downplay competition in the 90s.

Curry has a message for you......


*Night night*

[TheMan]

Yea, kinda like LeBron's peak began in 2009 but his ultimate peak was 2012-13. Jordan's peak is universally accepted as '88-'93. Duncan was a force in 1999. Your dad didn't nut in that prostitute who conceived you until 2005, so you don't know anything about back then.

:roll:

[Shooter]

You were the one crying about .15 difference because he said shaq averaged 26 instead of 25.34, which turns out wasn't the right number anyways

Also, shaq peaked in the early 2000s, so 7 year totals don't mean anything

So your 27 vs 25.6 is irrelevant bogus nonsense

+1

Like how the TF is anyone saying Shaq's peak was the 90s versus the 00s

Thats about as low IQ as I've seen on this site.

[Johnny32]

+1

Like how the TF is anyone saying Shaq's peak was the 90s versus the 00s

Thats about as low IQ as I've seen on this site.

pure and utter desperation is how.

[tontoz]

Averaging 27/12 for 7 seasons in the 90s doesn't mean anything. Since his peak year was 2000 the previous 7 years don't count as competition in the 90s.

I've seen the light.....




:facepalm

[Johnny32]

what park of peak is the mouth breathing, window licking, math is hard, 90s tard not comprehending?

[Johnny32]

Interesting list. Bird and Magic peaked in the '90s if you ask some, as did Shaq, and Duncan was most outstanding from the start of his career. After a legendary career in college, his first game against the dynasty Bulls was a classic.

despite giving it his best effort...tontotard doesn't actually have the dumbest post in this thread. that goes to this gem.

[tontoz]

what park of peak is the mouth breathing, window licking, math is hard, 90s tard not comprehending?


Right because when we are comparing decades it doesn't matter which decade he was more productive overall, all that matters is the peak year.

The years when he was fat and out of shape playing under 30 minutes per game don't matter, all that matters is that peak year (which started in the 90s).

[Johnny32]

Right because when we are comparing decades it doesn't matter which decade he was more productive overall, all that matters is the peak year.

The years when he was fat and out of shape playing under 30 minutes per game don't matter, all that matters is that peak year (which started in the 90s).

start your own topic if you'd like to change the criteria. i'll stop by to laugh at you...again.

[tontoz]

despite giving it his best effort...tontotard doesn't actually have the dumbest post in this thread. that goes to this gem.


That was pretty bad. Bird was completely washed in the 90s and magic retired in '91.

[Baller789]

+1

Like how the TF is anyone saying Shaq's peak was the 90s versus the 00s

Thats about as low IQ as I've seen on this site.

Shaq's peak WAS inthe 90's you incel.

Shaq just had a better team and GOAT coaching with the Lakers.

[tontoz]

start your own topic if you'd like to change the criteria. i'll stop by to laugh at you...again.


I don't make troll threads. I'll leave that to you, all your alts, and 3ball.

[Johnny32]

I don't make troll threads. I'll leave that to you, all your alts, and 3ball.

i have no alts. not a troll either. i back up everything i post with links, quotes, stats, and facts.

[Johnny32]

i take that back. i do troll on occasion but only if the poster is a complete moron or trying to troll me first. so it happens a lot here i have to admit.

[Baller789]

i take that back. i do troll on occasion but only if the poster is a complete moron or trying to troll me first. so it happens a lot here i have to admit.

:roll:

[Round Mound]

80's then the 90's

[Bawkish]

OP still didn't state the point of this thread

If his point is that the current era has the most top 20s and say Bron dominated these players then the OP is a fool and this thread is pointless after all

[nayte]

Giannis should be 20's. If we are going by decades.

[HoopsNY]

It's not unreasonable at all to think that Shaq's peak began in the 90s. By '94 and '95, he had won 2 scoring titles (I count '94 because Robinson's stat pad is forgotten in the minds of these children). and he was top 10 in MVP voting every year with the exception of his rookie year.

Shaq was banged up a few of those years, otherwise he'd probably have finished higher.

But one thing that a lot of guys on this board are forgetting is that between '94-'99 (excluding his rookie year), Shaq put up 28/12/3/2 on 58%. And by 2000-02, most, if not all of the elite centers were on the decline, injured, or retired. And that included the likes of Zo, Daughtery, Raja, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo, and Robinson.

It's not uncommon to have peaks overlapping between two decades. It really all boils down to when you came into the league. Coincidentally, guys like Russell, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, and Magic all entered into the league at the end or beginning of a decade.

But even then, Russell won MVP and a title in '58. So you can say 50s/60s. Duncan won a title and FMVP in '99, and was probably in his best form that year than any other year outside of 2003 and maybe 2004. So Duncan is the '90s and '00s?

Even OP lists Giannis as the 10s, probably because Giannis won an MVP in 2019. Fair enough, but it only proves my point. Look at LeBron and MJ, they won MVPs in different decades that both coincided with their peaks.

TLDR; OP is a moron who made an agenda driven thread to discredit MJ and prop up his idol LeBron.

[TheMan]

It's not unreasonable at all to think that Shaq's peak began in the 90s. By '94 and '95, he had won 2 scoring titles (I count '94 because Robinson's stat pad is forgotten in the minds of these children). and he was top 10 in MVP voting every year with the exception of his rookie year.

Shaq was banged up a few of those years, otherwise he'd probably have finished higher.

But one thing that a lot of guys on this board are forgetting is that between '94-'99 (excluding his rookie year), Shaq put up 28/12/3/2 on 58%. And by 2000-02, most, if not all of the elite centers were on the decline, injured, or retired. And that included the likes of Zo, Daughtery, Raja, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo, and Robinson.

It's not uncommon to have peaks overlapping between two decades. It really all boils down to when you came into the league. Coincidentally, guys like Russell, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, and Magic all entered into the league at the end or beginning of a decade.

But even then, Russell won MVP and a title in '58. So you can say 50s/60s. Duncan won a title and FMVP in '99, and was probably in his best form that year than any other year outside of 2003 and maybe 2004. So Duncan is the '90s and '00s?

Even OP lists Giannis as the 10s, probably because Giannis won an MVP in 2019. Fair enough, but it only proves my point. Look at LeBron and MJ, they won MVPs in different decades that both coincided with their peaks.

TLDR; OP is a moron who made an agenda driven thread to discredit MJ and prop up his idol LeBron.
Of course, he's 3ba11 but for LeBron. Both swear they present unbiased stats, links, and facts to back up their claims but not really, both are intellectually dishonest trolls.

[Johnny32]

Of course, he's 3ba11 but for LeBron. Both swear they present unbiased stats, links, and facts to back up their claims but not really, both are intellectually dishonest trolls.

Lol @ your hurt feelings.

[John8204]

It's not unreasonable at all to think that Shaq's peak began in the 90s. By '94 and '95, he had won 2 scoring titles (I count '94 because Robinson's stat pad is forgotten in the minds of these children). and he was top 10 in MVP voting every year with the exception of his rookie year.

Shaq was banged up a few of those years, otherwise he'd probably have finished higher.

But one thing that a lot of guys on this board are forgetting is that between '94-'99 (excluding his rookie year), Shaq put up 28/12/3/2 on 58%. And by 2000-02, most, if not all of the elite centers were on the decline, injured, or retired. And that included the likes of Zo, Daughtery, Raja, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo, and Robinson.

It's not uncommon to have peaks overlapping between two decades. It really all boils down to when you came into the league. Coincidentally, guys like Russell, Duncan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, and Magic all entered into the league at the end or beginning of a decade.

But even then, Russell won MVP and a title in '58. So you can say 50s/60s. Duncan won a title and FMVP in '99, and was probably in his best form that year than any other year outside of 2003 and maybe 2004. So Duncan is the '90s and '00s?

Even OP lists Giannis as the 10s, probably because Giannis won an MVP in 2019. Fair enough, but it only proves my point. Look at LeBron and MJ, they won MVPs in different decades that both coincided with their peaks.

TLDR; OP is a moron who made an agenda driven thread to discredit MJ and prop up his idol LeBron.

Another problem with Shaq (who I love to bury) is his "peak" also coincided with verified crooked officiating.

[TheMan]

Lol @ your hurt feelings.

What hurt feelings? Just calling how it is...no reason for my feelings to be hurt, what you post or don't post here has no bearing in the real world, we're just shooting the shit, bro...it ain't that serious. :cheers:

Just admit you love shitposting, m'kay?

[2much_knowledge]

the desperation is absolutely embarrassing.

Says the kid who started a thread just to talk shit about the 90s.....

[TheMan]

Says the kid who started a thread just to talk shit about the 90s.....

Yup, then he resorts to personal attacks and runs and hides or blocks posters who call him out on his bullshit:lol punk ass gon' punk ass

[Johnny32]

Shhhh, that doesn't jive with OP's agenda...


He does, but it doesn't fit his agenda ATM, he'll go the other way when it fits his LeFraud cawksucking duties...:roll: He's a cringe machine, just like his daddy.


Great point about Shaq, he started declining around that time, he was an absolute beast from the get go but that doesn't help OP's agenda...why do you even bother with that retard? He actually thinks 2010s era to now has more top 20 all timers than any other previous eras, I only count 2, maybe 3 (LBJ, Curry, KD) :lol And he pretends DRob, KMalone, Barkley didn't play in the 90s as well :facepalm Good Lord he's just a complete retard SMH


:applause:

Dude has a raging hard on for the GOAT that his whole existence here is propping up LeFraud and dropping down MJ anyway he can, anyone with a brain cell can see through his charade.


Obviously, along with MJ, Shaq and Hakeem.

OP fail thread, what a pathetic little boy. :lol

LeHurtFeelings.

[TheMan]

LeHurtFeelings.

You're a joke, 3ba11 of the Bran Fam

[Johnny32]

You're a joke, 3ba11 of the Bran Fam

you okay, lil fella?

[Baller789]

you okay, lil fella?

What he said is true tho.

[Johnny32]

What he said is true tho.

except it isn't. i destroy anyone who dares to post in my topics with facts, stats and superior basketball knowledge. 3tard gets ran out of pretty much every thread he creates.

[TheMan]

except it isn't. i destroy anyone who dares to post in my topics with facts, stats and superior basketball knowledge. 3tard gets ran out of pretty much every thread he creates.

That ESPN list had 8 players who played in the 90s :confusedshrug: Magic and Bird were closing out their career, Kobe and Dirk were beginning there's, meanwhile Shaq was a force, winning two scoring titles and leading Orlando to the Finals, TimmyD won a title and was FMVP. Player's careers overlap decades, MJ's peak was right from the get go, Rookie of the Year, DPOY, MVP and scoring titles in the 80s. He belongs in the 80s and 90s. LeBron was a force from the start too, he's a 2000s and 2010s star and depending how long he lasts in 2020s, he may very well be known as a 2020s star, unless you believe he's irrelevant now (which I know you don't). He is still capable of leading a title winning team, which is why those of us who troll the Bran Fam gave y'all so much shit last season :lol

So in short, the 90s must include Shaq, TD, Dream and MJ :confusedshrug:

[Johnny32]

That ESPN list had 8 players who played in the 90s :confusedshrug: Magic and Bird were closing out their career, Kobe and Dirk were beginning there's, meanwhile Shaq was a force, winning two scoring titles and leading Orlando to the Finals, TimmyD won a title and was FMVP. Player's careers overlap decades, MJ's peak was right from the get go, Rookie of the Year, DPOY, MVP and scoring titles in the 80s. He belongs in the 80s and 90s. LeBron was a force from the start too, he's a 2000s and 2010s star and depending how long he lasts in 2020s, he may very well be known as a 2020s star, unless you believe he's irrelevant now (which I know you don't). He is still capable of leading a title winning team, which is why those of us who troll the Bran Fam gave y'all so much shit last season :lol

So in short, the 90s must include Shaq, TD, Dream and MJ :confusedshrug:

your desperate and pathetic excuses for jordone having the worst top 20 all time peak competition is irrelevant.

[TheMan]

your desperate and pathetic excuses for jordone having the worst top 20 all time peak competition is irrelevant.

It is a fact MJ played in the 90s with the players mentioned, you can't rewrite history, not to those of us who lived through it. You might be a bit successful with dimwits your age but all it takes is using Google to disprove your lies :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Love how fans always cry "back in my day" but fail to realize their day was also shit on by the media and former players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&t

[TheMan]

Love how fans always cry "back in my day" but fail to realize their day was also shit on by the media and former players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&t

Happens in every era, plenty of NBA analysts and players calling today the weakest era in terms of how soft the rules are and how much colluding is going on by top stars in order to avoid competition and rack up titles, but I know you know that already...

[Johnny32]

your desperate and pathetic excuses for jordone having the worst top 20 all time peak competition is irrelevant.

x2

[Axe]

Love how fans always cry "back in my day" but fail to realize their day was also shit on by the media and former players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&t
That's why clueless casuals aren't so bright.

[Soundwave]

I don't agree with a lot of these top 20 rankings as if they're gospel to begin with.

For example David Robinson is a better player peak for peak than Kevin Garnett, DRob peaked around 94?

Shaq was pretty much as dominant in the 90s as the 2000s too, his teams were just a bit too raw to win it all.

But I take Shaq 94/95 over the so-called "top players" from many decades. As good as Steph is for example I'd take
94/95 Shaq over him.

Also Giannis is 2020s not 2010s if you want to be strict on which decade they were at their best. You can't have it both ways.

Karl Malone also belongs on that top 20, 2 NBA Finals and beat Shaq-Kobe multiple times, the reason he's not is because Jordan beat them, but there's no shame in losing to the best ever.

Like John Havlicek or even KG are not better than Karl Malone or pre-injury David Robinson or a mid-90s Shaq. Sorry, but nope.

[Johnny32]

I don't agree with a lot of these top 20 rankings as if they're gospel to begin with.

For example David Robinson is a better player peak for peak than Kevin Garnett, DRob peaked around 94?

Shaq was pretty much as dominant in the 90s as the 2000s too, his teams were just a bit too raw to win it all.

But I take Shaq 94/95 over the so-called "top players" from many decades. As good as Steph is for example I'd take
94/95 Shaq over him.

Also Giannis is 2020s not 2010s if you want to be strict on which decade they were at their best. You can't have it both ways.

Karl Malone also belongs on that top 20, 2 NBA Finals and beat Shaq-Kobe multiple times, the reason he's not is because Jordan beat them, but there's no shame in losing to the best ever.

Like John Havlicek or even KG are not better than Karl Malone or pre-injury David Robinson or a mid-90s Shaq. Sorry, but nope.

well most all time lists are a players career/legacy not their peak. shaq would be top 5 on everyone's list if that was the case,

[PeroAntic]

well most all time lists are a players career/legacy not their peak. shaq would be top 5 on everyone's list if that was the case,

90s players legacies were shattered by MJ:oldlol: