Manu Ginobili vs Gilbert Arenas

[Carbine]

Who was the more impactful player?

After Gilbert's remarks about Manu on his recent podcast, I thought it would be appropriate to make this thread.

[Xiao Yao You]

Arenas was good. Manu is one of the greats

[Axe]

Guys, who do you think amongst the two would mesh better with baguette biyombo?

[Real Men Wear Green]

Arenas wrecked a generation of Wizard basketball so Arenas had more of an impact. Yes I am just being contrary.

[ShawkFactory]

Impactful? I mean it's probably Arenas. For better or worse.

Nobody is choosing Gilbert Arenas over Ginobili on their team though so who cares. Ginobili was better.

[FultzNationRISE]

Did Dilbert say something outlandish to get some headlines for his podcast?

Color me astonished.

[Vino24]

Kobe said Manu reminded him of himself. Crafty as hell. Manu is easily better

[Xiao Yao You]

Guys, who do you think amongst the two would mesh better with baguette biyombo?

they'd both out score Gobert. Isn't that what you really want to know?

[JohnMax]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qi_rhbtrS8

[Xiao Yao You]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qi_rhbtrS8

Crawford better than Manu! :roll:

[paksat]

I mean are we talking about a prime gilbert arenas with no injuries? You guys are out of your mind if you're taking manu over hibachi lol.

Manu averaged 14 ppg for his career, quit making him out to be something he's not. Gilbert dropped 29 ppg one season and told 3 different teams he was gonna drop 50+ on them for what happened at the olympics, and then he went and did it. The only thing that stopped arenas from being all time great level is injuries.

manu is a fine player, but hibachi put 60 on kobe and the lakers in LA, manu could never dream of taking over a game like that.

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean are we talking about a prime gilbert arenas with no injuries? You guys are out of your mind if you're taking manu over hibachi lol.

Manu averaged 14 ppg for his career, quit making him out to be something he's not. Gilbert dropped 29 ppg one season and told 3 different teams he was gonna drop 50+ on them for what happened at the olympics, and then he went and did it. The only thing that stopped arenas from being all time great level is injuries.

manu is a fine player, but hibachi put 60 on kobe and the lakers in LA, manu could never dream of taking over a game like that.

you have to look past the stats when it comes to Manu. I'd want him on my team for sure. Arenas big stats on mediocre teams. That's what keeps him from being an all time great.

[SouBeachTalents]

you have to look past the stats when it comes to Manu. I'd want him on my team for sure. Arenas big stats on mediocre teams. That's what keeps him from being an all time great.
Yeah, neither is a true franchise guy, and I'd take Manu over Arenas every time as my 2nd/3rd option.

[fsvr54]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Qi_rhbtrS8

Such a horribly idiotic take from Gilbert

[Xiao Yao You]

Such a horribly idiotic take from Gilbert

Crawford great 6th man. Manu great player who came off the bench

[FultzNationRISE]

I mean are we talking about a prime gilbert arenas with no injuries? You guys are out of your mind if you're taking manu over hibachi lol.

Manu averaged 14 ppg for his career, quit making him out to be something he's not. Gilbert dropped 29 ppg one season and told 3 different teams he was gonna drop 50+ on them for what happened at the olympics, and then he went and did it. The only thing that stopped arenas from being all time great level is injuries.

manu is a fine player, but hibachi put 60 on kobe and the lakers in LA, manu could never dream of taking over a game like that.


Basketball isnt an iso game. Arenas was a terrible defender, playmaker, and all around leader. He can get his own points but it doesnt have a big impact on winning games.

A lot of people think if you remove a 30 ppg scorer from a team, it means they're going to score 30 ppg less. That's not how it actually works.

Players like Dilbert are the most overrated in basketball.

[Im Still Ballin]

Basketball isnt an iso game. Arenas was a terrible defender, playmaker, and all around leader. He can get his own points but it doesnt have a big impact on winning games.

A lot of people think if you remove a 30 ppg scorer from a team, it means they're going to score 30 ppg less. That's not how it actually works.

Players like Dilbert are the most overrated in basketball.

Opportunity cost!

[Akeem34TheDream]

He is a clown for comparing Ginobili with Crawford.

[post]

objectively speaking arenas was a very good player who peaked at second team all nba

ginobili was a very good player who peaked at third team all nba

one could say ginobili was better because

1. he actually played defense
2. sacrificed stats/accolades for rings
3. had better plus minus numbers

crawford may have looked nice at least on offense but but i'm pretty sure 30 out of 30 nba gms take ginobili

[Axe]

they'd both out score Gobert. Isn't that what you really want to know?
https://c.tenor.com/yJTcJo166X4AAAAC/baby-wag-finger.gif

[paksat]

Basketball isnt an iso game. Arenas was a terrible defender, playmaker, and all around leader. He can get his own points but it doesnt have a big impact on winning games.

A lot of people think if you remove a 30 ppg scorer from a team, it means they're going to score 30 ppg less. That's not how it actually works.

Players like Dilbert are the most overrated in basketball.

ginobli is better than him in quite a few areas, but he's not even remotely the kind of scorer arenas was. Arenas had kobe scared to guard him

Arenas was a clown, but that same season he must have hit 12 game winners at the buzzer beater. I would say your point would stand more IF manu was THE MAN on those spurs teams. But he had parker and duncan around him. It would be more easily compared if manu had been the go-to guy without a top 10 all time player on his team. Manu was an all out hustle guy for the first 3-4 years of his career.

Basketball isn't an iso game, but lebron does nothing but iso and run pick and roll after pick and roll with the ball in his hands. How many of you actually watched hibachi back then live and in his prime?

Manu only averaged 4 assist a game for his career, that's allen iverson level. On top of that, gilbert actually average more steals than manu did. I'm telling you guys, manu's overrated for an all time great. His numbers are absolutely pedestrian.

[post]

ginobli is better than him in quite a few areas, but he's not even remotely the kind of scorer arenas was. Arenas had kobe scared to guard him

Arenas was a clown, but that same season he must have hit 12 game winners at the buzzer beater. I would say your point would stand more IF manu was THE MAN on those spurs teams. But he had parker and duncan around him. It would be more easily compared if manu had been the go-to guy without a top 10 all time player on his team. Manu was an all out hustle guy for the first 3-4 years of his career.

Basketball isn't an iso game, but lebron does nothing but iso and run pick and roll after pick and roll with the ball in his hands. How many of you actually watched hibachi back then live and in his prime?

Manu only averaged 4 assist a game for his career, that's allen iverson level. On top of that, gilbert actually average more steals than manu did. I'm telling you guys, manu's overrated for an all time great. His numbers are absolutely pedestrian.

i could post highlight videos of arenas and ginobili doing very impressive looking things which probably won't get us very far

it's not like arenas had nothing when you consider all stars and positive players jamison and butler he played with

manu was the leading scorer on the 2008 spurs in the regular season and the leading scorer on the spurs in the playoffs in 2011

to some degree it's more accurate to say manu and duncan were THE MEN and parker benefitted more from playing with them but was still very good

[Xiao Yao You]

i could post highlight videos of arenas and ginobili doing very impressive looking things which probably won't get us very far

it's not like arenas had nothing when you consider all stars and positive players jamison and butler he played with

manu was the leading scorer on the 2008 spurs in the regular season and the leading scorer on the spurs in the playoffs in 2011

to some degree it's more accurate to say manu and duncan were THE MEN and parker benefitted more from playing with them but was still very good

Parker was certainly a distant number 3 until Manu and Tim started to age anyway

[paksat]

Parker averaged more PPG while shooting a much higher percentage

[post]

Parker averaged more PPG while shooting a much higher percentage

true at least going by ppg and fg% but that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things

[Xiao Yao You]

true at least going by ppg and fg% but that's a pretty narrow way of looking at things

but it's the ISH way

[post]

but it's the ISH way

with some here apparently and some in general

just seems like common sense people would eventually at least try to come up with numbers that tell you how good an overall player someone is

i'm not even a big math guy but i find it interesting

[paksat]

with some here apparently and some in general

just seems like common sense people would eventually at least try to come up with numbers that tell you how good an overall player someone is

i'm not even a big math guy but i find it interesting

it's not like parker is only 1 percent higher, it's significant just how much higher he is in that regard. Not a better defender nope, but the way people talk about ginobli you'd think he averaged more steals per game than cp3. Truth is, he doesn't even average more steals than gilbert, and his blocks per game is at .3




gilbert is at .2 lol

[post]

it's not like parker is only 1 percent higher, it's significant just how much higher he is in that regard. Not a better defender nope, but the way people talk about ginobli you'd think he averaged more steals per game than cp3. Truth is, he doesn't even average more steals than gilbert, and his blocks per game is at .3




gilbert is at .2 lol

ginobili was a better 3 point shooter and free throw shooter

bruce bowen averaged less than 1 steal and less than 1 block for his career yet made the all defensive team 8 times

stuff like this leads people to attempt to evaluate players by calculating all the different parts of the game that are captured in box scores and that aren't

people who excel at math do this stuff and it can get somewhat complicated but the stats keep getting better over time basically as far as i can tell

i don't expect this to convince you if you aren't familiar with it and there is still uncertainty and room for discussion but i believe that is gradually closing

and the sports media will panic over this because the truth will be obvious and they could be out of a job

[Xiao Yao You]

it's not like parker is only 1 percent higher, it's significant just how much higher he is in that regard. Not a better defender nope, but the way people talk about ginobli you'd think he averaged more steals per game than cp3. Truth is, he doesn't even average more steals than gilbert, and his blocks per game is at .3




gilbert is at .2 lol

blocks is a good way to evaluate guards!

[tanibanana]

At their peak I would want Arenas if I have a weak team, but I would take Manu if I have an average to strong team.
And in general (no context), I would pick Manu.

[ShawkFactory]

I mean are we talking about a prime gilbert arenas with no injuries? You guys are out of your mind if you're taking manu over hibachi lol.

Manu averaged 14 ppg for his career, quit making him out to be something he's not. Gilbert dropped 29 ppg one season and told 3 different teams he was gonna drop 50+ on them for what happened at the olympics, and then he went and did it. The only thing that stopped arenas from being all time great level is injuries.

manu is a fine player, but hibachi put 60 on kobe and the lakers in LA, manu could never dream of taking over a game like that.

He played like something he wasn't to the benefit of his team. He's one the best passers I've ever seen and could score 25 when he wanted.

Being content to let Duncan eat and win a game or series is not a knock on Manu.

[SouBeachTalents]

paksat with some astoundingly bad takes itt. Rodman averaged less than a steal and block per game, guess that means he wasn't a great defender :lol

[paksat]

ginobili was a better 3 point shooter and free throw shooter

bruce bowen averaged less than 1 steal and less than 1 block for his career yet made the all defensive team 8 times

stuff like this leads people to attempt to evaluate players by calculating all the different parts of the game that are captured in box scores and that aren't

people who excel at math do this stuff and it can get somewhat complicated but the stats keep getting better over time basically as far as i can tell

i don't expect this to convince you if you aren't familiar with it and there is still uncertainty and room for discussion but i believe that is gradually closing

and the sports media will panic over this because the truth will be obvious and they could be out of a job

I understand where you're coming from, I just don't think that gilbert and ginobli are in the same sphere. Gilbert arenas was in the same realm as tracy mcgrady at one point, so if you're taking ginobli over that kind of impact his intangibles should be amazing.

when you talk about greatest defenders the league has ever seen, ginobli isn't even in the 3rd tier.

[paksat]

paksat with some astoundingly bad takes itt. Rodman averaged less than a steal and block per game, guess that means he wasn't a great defender :lol

18 rebounds per game during one season is stats that actually show up and win games.

13.3 ppg / 1.3 spg / .3 bpg / 3.5 rpg

this intagible stuff needs to actually show at some point, because those stats right there are hardly different than jj redicks. Stephen curry is listed at 6'2 vs manu at 6'6, guess who gets more rebounds?

anyway, have your 13.3 ppg i'm gonna take the guy that no one can guard and will drop 50 at any point.

[ShawkFactory]

18 rebounds per game during one season is stats that actually show up and win games.

13.3 ppg / 1.3 spg / .3 bpg / 3.5 rpg

this intagible stuff needs to actually show at some point, because those stats right there are hardly different than jj redicks. Stephen curry is listed at 6'2 vs manu at 6'6, guess who gets more rebounds?

anyway, have your 13.3 ppg i'm gonna take the guy that no one can guard and will drop 50 at any point.

Im confused by this. Did it not? You’re talking about a dude who won 4 rings and a gold medal with Argentina.

[Rysio]

Manu never had an opportunity to be the "guy" on a team but he was skilled enough to do something similar as arenas did for a few seasons but he can do more than just score so I think on a garbage team he could have even bigger impact just slightly worse scorer.

[paksat]

Im confused by this. Did it not? You’re talking about a dude who won 4 rings and a gold medal with Argentina.


I mean show in the stats, like are you a beast? Then is it going to actually start showing at some point? I think you're giving manu way too much credit for those 4 rings. He has a top 10 player ever on his team and a top 3 coach. He also had a young kawhi among others, it's too much help it really is.

Put it this way, someone brought up jamison and butler sand said gilbert actually had something to work with. If we switch the two, does manu carry that team to a championship?

And yes he won a gold, but that usa team was garbage that almost lost several times and did in fact lose. That team, whom I watched every game of, was just terrible. Greece had their way with them, Argentina had their way with them. Lebron and carmelo should be flat out ashamed at those teams. Iverson was trash, duncan played badly, and specifically lebron and carmelo did zero to alleviate it.

I don't know how else to put this though, at this point it's almost like i'm sitting here trying to convince some of you that manu is a bad player. He's not, but 13.3 ppg being defended with, "he did it for the team." Well why can't he get more rebounds at least? He's 6'6 how many rebounds does he get? Less than gilbert arenas... whose career numbers are gutted because of a horrific knee injury that happened right around his 7th year in the league.

What would it take for gilbert to eclipse him at this point if we go back in a time machine? Gilbert gets more steals, more rebounds, way more points, even on blocks and he has done this while his numbers are stunted from knee surgeries. All while commanding 100% of the opposing teams defensive attention. Are we gonna say that manu is just so much better as "glue" guy that it eclipses the actual production and defensive attention that gilbert does?

[Lebron23]

Manu is the better 6th man. Gilbert is the better franchise player. In hindsight Harden becoming an franchise player, and MVP level of player is better than being a 6th man if he stays in OKC.

[Reggie43]

Yeah Arenas was obviously more talented but he doesnt seem like a guy who would make sacrifices in his game playing for a contending team.

Manu on the other hand knew how to play within the system and thrived in his role and was a high iq all around player.

The problem is Manu never faced the type of defenses, responsibilities and pressure that Arenas had which comes with being a franchise player so we would never know how he performs on his own team removed from the great situation that he had (Spurs)

[ShawkFactory]

I mean show in the stats, like are you a beast? Then is it going to actually start showing at some point? I think you're giving manu way too much credit for those 4 rings. He has a top 10 player ever on his team and a top 3 coach. He also had a young kawhi among others, it's too much help it really is.

Put it this way, someone brought up jamison and butler sand said gilbert actually had something to work with. If we switch the two, does manu carry that team to a championship?

And yes he won a gold, but that usa team was garbage that almost lost several times and did in fact lose. That team, whom I watched every game of, was just terrible. Greece had their way with them, Argentina had their way with them. Lebron and carmelo should be flat out ashamed at those teams. Iverson was trash, duncan played badly, and specifically lebron and carmelo did zero to alleviate it.

I don't know how else to put this though, at this point it's almost like i'm sitting here trying to convince some of you that manu is a bad player. He's not, but 13.3 ppg being defended with, "he did it for the team." Well why can't he get more rebounds at least? He's 6'6 how many rebounds does he get? Less than gilbert arenas... whose career numbers are gutted because of a horrific knee injury that happened right around his 7th year in the league.

What would it take for gilbert to eclipse him at this point if we go back in a time machine? Gilbert gets more steals, more rebounds, way more points, even on blocks and he has done this while his numbers are stunted from knee surgeries. All while commanding 100% of the opposing teams defensive attention. Are we gonna say that manu is just so much better as "glue" guy that it eclipses the actual production and defensive attention that gilbert does?

Oh wow. There’s so many ridiculous points here that I can’t even address all of them.

I’ll just say this: I’m going through both of them as basketball players and the only thing I can think of that Arenas has on Manu was maybe a first step. Which is no small thing, but Manu was better at quite literally every other aspect of basketball.

Just because Arenas played the game a certain way, and that way bring tunnel-visioned scoring a lot of the time, doesn’t mean he’s better. I mean there’s a reason he picked Jamal Crawford over Manu. He has that type of mindset as a player.

Manu could completely take over a game while scoring 26. He picks his spots, moves the ball around, ultimately makes winning plays.

I’m not going to take Boogie over Duncan because stats.

[Xiao Yao You]

Oh wow. There’s so many ridiculous points here that I can’t even address all of them.

I’ll just say this: I’m going through both of them as basketball players and the only thing I can think of that Arenas has on Manu was maybe a first step. Which is no small thing, but Manu was better at quite literally every other aspect of basketball.

Just because Arenas played the game a certain way, and that way bring tunnel-visioned scoring a lot of the time, doesn’t mean he’s better. I mean there’s a reason he picked Jamal Crawford over Manu. He has that type of mindset as a player.

Manu could completely take over a game while scoring 26. He picks his spots, moves the ball around, ultimately makes winning plays.

I’m not going to take Boogie over Duncan because stats.

Not taking Boogie period!

[fsvr54]

Just cause Manu was relegated to a bench role, doesn't mean Gil was a better scorer. PPG does not equal "better scorer"

We're talking about a dude that singlehandedly led a team to destroy the US in the Olympics.

[paksat]

Oh wow. There’s so many ridiculous points here that I can’t even address all of them.

I’ll just say this: I’m going through both of them as basketball players and the only thing I can think of that Arenas has on Manu was maybe a first step. Which is no small thing, but Manu was better at quite literally every other aspect of basketball.

Just because Arenas played the game a certain way, and that way bring tunnel-visioned scoring a lot of the time, doesn’t mean he’s better. I mean there’s a reason he picked Jamal Crawford over Manu. He has that type of mindset as a player.

Manu could completely take over a game while scoring 26. He picks his spots, moves the ball around, ultimately makes winning plays.

I’m not going to take Boogie over Duncan because stats.


People that take over games don't average 13 ppg

I went ahead and watched that whole episode to get some context. When his stats were brought up Jr Smith said, " wow, those are my stats.."

[ShawkFactory]

People that take over games don't average 13 ppg

I went ahead and watched that whole episode to get some context. When his stats were brought up Jr Smith said, " wow, those are my stats.."

What the fvck are you talking about :lol

I said he could take over a game while scoring 26. The next day Duncan could go 37/16 and Manu would be content scoring like 9. He didn’t play the game the same way Arenas did and it isn’t really because he couldn’t.

[post]

I understand where you're coming from, I just don't think that gilbert and ginobli are in the same sphere. Gilbert arenas was in the same realm as tracy mcgrady at one point, so if you're taking ginobli over that kind of impact his intangibles should be amazing.

when you talk about greatest defenders the league has ever seen, ginobli isn't even in the 3rd tier.

the overall evidence i've seen leads to the conclusion mcgrady was better than arenas but that's another pointless topic

intangibles is one way of putting it but it appears clear there were various elements to his game that when combined together produced an elite impact

i don't have a ranking of greatest defenders ever but it doesn't seem like a stretch to say he was a much better defender than some people want to admit

some years he was probably all defense level just didn't get the credit

wouldn't be the first time someone has said certain players got too few or too many accolades

[post]

Oh wow. There’s so many ridiculous points here that I can’t even address all of them.


i feel you

it can be exhausting and futile addressing everyone

[Gohan]

Lol at these honkeys taking ginobili over arenas, you already know they had their klans hat on their head when they were typing. Take the white sheet from over your face its clouding your judgement.

[post]

can always count on gohan to bring the racism pretend or real and then disappear

anyway here's a lineup of peak honkeys i'd like to see

jokic
kirilenko
bird
ginobili
stockton

[Rysio]

Lol manu ain't white.

[post]

is anyone anything really

might as well say charlize theron is black since she's from africa

[Cali Syndicate]

Manu was not only a better player, but also a better all time great