View Full Version : Finals wins divided into 2 categories (since 1980) - sharing vs carrying load
3ba11
08-01-2022, 08:57 PM
.
Finals won with 2 guys sharing the scoring load:
1980 (Kareem, Magic)
1981 (Maxwell, Bird)
1982 (Kareem, Magic)
1983 (Moses, Dr. J)
1985 (Magic, Kareem)
1986 (Bird, McHale)
1987 (Magic, Worthy)
1988 (Magic, Worthy)
1989 (Isiah, Dumars)
1990 (Isiah, Dumars)
2001 (Shaq, Kobe)
2004 (Chauncey, Rip)
2005 (Duncan, Manu)
2007 (Parker, Duncan)
2008 (Pierce, Allen)
2011 (Dirk, Terry)
2012 (Lebron, Wade)
2013 (Lebron, Wade)
2014 (Kawhi, Duncan)
2016 (Lebron, Iggy)
2017 (Durant, Curry)
2018 (Durant, Curry)
2020 (Lebron, AD)
2021 (Giannis, Middleton)
Finals won with 1 guy carrying scoring load (defeating maximum defensive attention):
1984 (Bird)
1991 (MJ)
1992 (MJ)
1993 (MJ)
1996 (MJ)
1997 (MJ)
1998 (MJ)
1999 (Duncan)
2000 (Shaq)
2002 (Shaq)
2006 (Wade)
2009 (Kobe)
2010 (Kobe)
2015 (Curry)
2019 (Kawhi)
2022 (Curry)
LeBron averaged like 10 more PPG than anyone else on his team in the 2013 playoffs, nice omission :lol
3ba11
08-01-2022, 09:03 PM
LeBron averaged like 10 more PPG than anyone else on his team in the 2013 playoffs, nice omission :lol
The thread title says Finals, and Lebron never carried scoring load in a Finals win (never defeated maximum defensive attention) - in the 13' Finals, Lebron only averaged 25 and Wade 20.. Usage was nearly identical
Lebron can't defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match his Finals scoring.. He can't win with secondary producers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that average far less
The thread title says Finals, and Lebron never carried scoring load in a Finals win (never defeated maximum defensive attention) - in the 13' Finals, Lebron only averaged 25 and Wade 20.. Usage was nearly identical
Lebron can't defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals), so he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match his Finals scoring.. He can't win with secondary producers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that average far less
Shaq averaged almost 10 PPG more than Kobe in the 2002 finals. Guess you better give that one to him too.
3ba11
08-01-2022, 09:24 PM
Shaq averaged almost 10 PPG more than Kobe in the 2002 finals. Guess you better give that one to him too.
Done
Done
What’s the excuse for 2001? Shaq outscored him 33.0-24.6 :lol
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:04 AM
What’s the excuse for 2001? Shaq outscored him 33.0-24.6 :lol
The line is double digits, aka 10 point margin... This is especially fair for 2001, where Kobe was truly a 1b for those playoffs and dominate the Spurs (at the same age that Lebron wet the bed)
The line is double digits, aka 10 point margin... This is especially fair for 2001, where Kobe was truly a 1b for those playoffs and dominate the Spurs (at the same age that Lebron wet the bed)
The line is double digits according to whom? You? :lol
One player is pretty clearly carrying the load if they’re outscoring someone else by close to 9 PPG. What Kobe did against the Spurs is irrelevant you already said only the finals count :no:
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:09 AM
The line is double digits according to whom? You? :lol
It's intuitive - 10 points is the margin for a lot of things
One player is pretty clearly carrying the load if they’re outscoring someone else by close to 9 PPG.
You want to make it 9?
Okay.. it's 9... But it damn sure ain't 5 or 6 (the margin Lebron would need)..
The line must be drawn somewhere and 9 or 10 sounds reasonable
It's intuitive - 10 points is the margin for a lot of things
You want to make it 9?
Okay.. it's 9... But it damn sure ain't 5 or 6 (the margin Lebron would need)..
The line must be drawn somewhere and 9 or 10 sounds reasonable
Welp there’s 3 carry jobs by Shaq. Better rank him number two behind MJ or you’ll be inconsistent.
1987_Lakers
08-02-2022, 01:14 AM
3ba11 destroyed per usual.
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:15 AM
Welp there’s 3 carry jobs by Shaq. Better rank him number two behind MJ or you’ll be inconsistent.
Shaq got swept like 89 times and needs to be fed the ball near the rim - this is why Kareem lost in the 70's despite being better than prime Shaq (sidenote: I realized today that part of the reason for Magic's subpar Finals record is because Kareem was actually way past his prime for the entire 80's, and infact otherworldly in the 70:s - but again, Kareem was like Shaq and needed to be fed the ball by goat PG's or wings, otherwise he lost his ass)
1987_Lakers
08-02-2022, 01:27 AM
Shaq got swept like 89 times and needs to be fed the ball near the rim - this is why Kareem lost in the 70's despite being better than prime Shaq (sidenote: I realized today that part of the reason for Magic's subpar Finals record is because Kareem was actually way past his prime for the entire 80's, and infact otherworldly in the 70:s - but again, Kareem was like Shaq and needed to be fed the ball by goat PG's or wings, otherwise he lost his ass)
You thought Kareem was in his prime throughout the entire 80's? LOL
Another example how you don't know shit about history.
Shaq got swept like 89 times and needs to be fed the ball near the rim - this is why Kareem lost in the 70's despite being better than prime Shaq (sidenote: I realized today that part of the reason for Magic's subpar Finals record is because Kareem was actually way past his prime for the entire 80's, and infact otherworldly in the 70:s - but again, Kareem was like Shaq and needed to be fed the ball by goat PG's or wings, otherwise he lost his ass)
Moving the goalposts. By your own logic carry jobs are what make MJ GOAT. This is your stated criteria. Thus Shaq is second. Own it, snivelly.
You thought Kareem was in his prime throughout the entire 80's? LOL
Another example how you don't know shit about history.
He thinks Westbrook is in his prime now.
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:33 AM
You thought Kareem was in his prime throughout the entire 80's? LOL
Another example how you don't know shit about history.
I knew he wasn't in his prime, but I hadn't applied this fact to the Lakers' Finals record
Unlike you, I don't think Finals records are random - I believe they tell a story of team ceiling - Finals record is a good indicator of the team ceiling a player yields
If you're 6/6, then you clearly yield the best teams... Otoh, if you're a woat 4/10, then you yield garbage teams (despite having the preseason favorite from 11-16', 20-22')..
And we know that weak brand of ball causes favored talent (preseason favorites) to underacheive, so Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance is the worst brand of all time
1987_Lakers
08-02-2022, 01:35 AM
I knew he wasn't in his prime, but I hadn't applied this fact to the Lakers' Finals record
This doesn't make sense. You knew he wasn't in his prime, but still didn't apply it? LOL
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:37 AM
This doesn't make sense. You knew he wasn't in his prime, but still didn't apply it? LOL
Yeah that's what you guys do with Lebron - that's why you don't know much about him and think he's high IQ (due to many facts that you haven't applied)
1987_Lakers
08-02-2022, 01:38 AM
Yeah that's what you guys do with Lebron - that's why you don't know much about him and think he's high IQ (due to many facts that you haven't applied)
Don't change the subject, what you just said doesn't make sense, which makes me believe you actually thought Kareem was in his prime throughout the entire 80's.
Sad.
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:43 AM
Don't change the subject, what you just said doesn't make sense, which makes me believe you actually thought Kareem was in his prime throughout the entire 80's.
Sad.
No I made sense.
You lost again.. don't pretend or play dumb
Moving the goalposts. By your own logic carry jobs are what make MJ GOAT. This is your stated criteria. Thus Shaq is second. Own it, snivelly.
3ball?
1987_Lakers
08-02-2022, 01:47 AM
No I made sense.
You lost again.. don't pretend or play dumb
"I knew Kareem was past his prime, but still didn't apply that fact to the Lakers finals record" - 3ball
https://c.tenor.com/JrH_G03WmIIAAAAM/im-retarded-mirror-check.gif
"I knew Kareem was past his prime, but still didn't apply that fact to the Lakers finals record" - 3ball
https://c.tenor.com/JrH_G03WmIIAAAAM/im-retarded-mirror-check.gif
Ask him who was better between Kobe in the 2000 finals or LeBron in the 2009 ecf. He can’t answer it’s priceless
3ba11
08-02-2022, 01:57 AM
Ask him who was better between Kobe in the 2000 finals or LeBron in the 2009 ecf. He can’t answer it’s priceless
And you can't answer who played better - Kobe in the 09' Finals or Lebron in the 07'
Accept the thread title - Lebron had easier rings (sharing scoring loads in Finals, never carrying)
And you can't answer who played better - Kobe in the 09' Finals or Lebron in the 07'
Accept the thread title - Lebron had easier rings (sharing scoring loads in Finals, never carrying)
Kobe played better. Now you answer.
*crickets*
3ba11
08-02-2022, 02:21 AM
Kobe played better. Now you answer.
*crickets*
Clutch PPG (last 5 within 5)
00' Kobe Finals..... 8.0 on 60%.. 0.3 tov.. took over OT game
09' Lebron ECF...... 5.8 on 56%.. 1.2 tov.. ragdolled in OT game
* Lebron lost 3 fourth quarter leads in series
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4
^^^ Kobe
Clutch PPG (last 5 within 5)
00' Kobe Finals..... 8.0 on 60%.. 0.3 tov.. took over OT game
09' Lebron ECF...... 5.8 on 56%.. 1.2 tov.. ragdolled in OT game
* Lebron lost 3 fourth quarter leads in series
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4
^^^ Kobe
15.6 PPG on 41.1 TS% vs 38.5 PPG on 59.1 TS% and he can’t admit LeBron played better.
3ba11
08-02-2022, 02:25 AM
15.6 PPG on 41.1 TS% vs 38.5 PPG on 59.1 TS% and he can’t admit LeBron played better.
The clutch numbers speak for themselves
Lebron turned the ball over 1.2 times in the clutch versus 0.8 assists - that's like getting 8 assists in a game and 12 turnovers
:yaohappy: #LeFraud
The clutch numbers speak for themselves
Lebron turned the ball over 1.2 times in the clutch versus 0.8 assists - that's like getting 8 assists in a game and 12 turnovers
:yaohappy: #LeFraud
This is truly stupid even for you.
Sulico
08-02-2022, 02:32 AM
Sharing IS carrying.
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