who or what did lebron.OVERCOME or BUILD [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

John8204

08-09-2022, 09:15 AM

Cool topic....

1. Unlike every other legend Lebron has destroyed the notion of position basketball...he's been a PF/SF/SG/PG/C during his career and really he's gone to the finals which each new position/team
(Cleveland (SF)
(Miami (PF)
(Clevelnd (SG)
(Los Angeles (PG)
By being flexible in his skills and having a checked ego he's managed a level of consistency the likes of which we haven't seen since Jerry West and Bill Russell.

2. He's overcome a fatherless upbringing to be a superstar as a teenager. What makes people like 3Ball and really all Lebron haters disgusting in my eyes is that Lebron should have been a disaster. He was basically a child star brought into the league as an 18 year old with all the money/access and power to destroy himself and others. And yet he's managed to raise a family, keep grounded with a solid core of people around him and never really do anything wrong in 20 years. He hasn't managed to get sucked into the traps of women/drugs/gambling which most top NBA players have. His biggest issue is his relationship with China...which I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you if you think he's the only one...or if their are any businesses that aren't dealing with China.

3. He has never joined a championship level team. Man this claim of him being on Super Teams is just a load of crap. Bosh, Wade, Davis, and Love are all solid players and hall of famers but not a single one of them could lead a team to a conference final on their own. Most couldn't make the playoffs. Dwayne Wade is a player who over the next ten year will fall further and further down all-time lists to the point where he might not be top 50. Kyrie, Love, and Bosh didn't make the top 75 and unless Kyrie comes back and wins a chip won't make the top 100.

4. He has to play and defeat 4 dynasty teams (Detroit, Boston, Golden State, and San Antonio) and those are four very different teams. MJ failed against Detroit and Boston but those were similar teams...you could plan and build your team and wait them out. Lebron has had to deal with Super Teams and Legends conspiring and moving in every offseason...and has had to deal with the organic building teams.

8Ball

08-09-2022, 09:36 AM

Lebron averaged 25/7, while Jordan averaged 35-45 with 8-9 apg against teams of the 07' Pistons' caliber (53 wins and #6 SRS) - ask the 90' Sixers, 89' Knicks or 89' Cavs (#1 SRS and 57 wins)

jordan is 1-3 vs Isiah Thomas.

lebran in game 5 scored 29/30 of the team's last points, including 25 straight points.

arguably more impressive as jordan's best nba game.

LeGoat4Life

08-09-2022, 10:06 AM

Prime Lebron got his ass handled year after year by old Celtic and old spurs

Imagine what would have happen if he played against spurs during their prime

John8204

08-09-2022, 10:24 AM

Prime Lebron got his ass handled year after year by old Celtic and old spurs

Imagine what would have happen if he played against spurs during their prime

They went 2-2 against Lebron in 2010(the last time they beat Lebron) KG was 33, Ray Allen was 34 and PP was 32

Wally450

08-09-2022, 10:35 AM

What a pathetic human being 3ball is.

sdot_thadon

08-09-2022, 11:19 AM

Nothing

He formed super-teams to beat the ancient, underdog Celtics and then AD brought him a title out West (lottery before AD)

Furthermore, two top 10 players were added to the 15' Cavs (Love, Lebron), so they were the 15' and 16' preseason favorites.. Year 1 favorites in 11' and 15' meant that Lebron didn't have to BUILD anything..

Ultimately, the "comp" argument doesn't work for preseason favorites because that would reward underachieving the expectation..

Let's see, he had to overcome the Pistons with an insane game 5 to reach his 1st finals.

Had to overcome Boston in 2011..AND 2012.

Had to overcome a 3-1 deficit against the single most winningest team of all time.

Most overlooked? He overcame unprecedented expectations at 18 and surpassed them.

What did he build? Duh Supa teams! And a legacy that sadly keeps guys Ike you up at night posting about him.

bison

08-09-2022, 11:27 AM

I’m starting to get a little concerned about 3ball.

FKAri

08-09-2022, 02:09 PM

He OVERCAME your virginity to fucc your mind and BUILT a megacomplex in there.

Full Court

08-09-2022, 06:45 PM

He overcame the most turnovers of all time. :roll:

ShawkFactory

08-10-2022, 11:18 AM

He overcame the most turnovers of all time. :roll:

That doesn't even make sense..

The real answer is that he overcame 3ball's sanity.

Full Court

08-10-2022, 10:34 PM

He overcame the most turnovers of all time. :roll:

And he built a lottery super team. :lol

kawhileonard2

08-10-2022, 10:42 PM

He couldn't overcome Dwight Howard, Dirk Nowitzki with HCA nor Carlos Arroyo or Vassilis Spanoulis

3ba11

08-11-2022, 02:37 AM

he had to overcome the Pistons with an insane game 5 to reach his 1st finals.

Jordan did that for multi-game stretches against real opposition:

Games 3-5 of 93' Finals..... 48/10/6

And nearly for entire series:

90' Jordan vs Sixers........ 43/7/7
89' Jordan vs Cavs.......... 40/8/8
89' Jordan vs Knicks....... 37/8/10

Lebron couldn't conquer the East with homecourt advantage and the league favorite, so he formed super-teams in a conference that was routinely won by 1-star teams and wide open for the next decade.

Had to overcome Boston in 2011..AND 2012.

Garnett was a 13/7 bum post-injury and the Celtics were an old, 50-win teams, so the Cavs were massive favorites in 2010 - unfortunately, Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose a 2-1 lead and blow it

he:s the only player in history to lose as the 60-win favorite for 2 straight years.

He didn't beat the Celtics until Garnett/Allen/Pierce were 34/35/33, while MJ beat actual champions that were 29/27/29 (Isiah/Dumars/Rodman).

Had to overcome a 3-1 deficit against the single most winningest team of all time.

Lebron had the preseason favorite, so that title gets overrated - the on-paper talent was obviously there, so it's Lebron's fault for lacking the brand of ball to maintain favorite status and flirt with 70 wins like his peers (Kawhi, Curry).

Lebron also had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention in the 16' Finals, so he didn't overcome maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals).. This is much easier than carrying the load yourself and facing maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in Finals).

Most overlooked? He overcame unprecedented expectations at 18 and surpassed them.

Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - these Year 1 favorites mean that he didn't build anything or overcome anything -;he was gifted Year 1 favorite status (easiest path possible)

Nb1

08-11-2022, 12:30 PM

3ba11

08-11-2022, 12:34 PM

Before Lebron came the lakers had their woest 5 year era in history (12th worst of all NBA teams all time) and Lebron gave them a title just like that. It's insane how you could take one of the worst teams in history and hand them a title just like that. Usually guys need years to gel and guys like Durant join already great teams that play together for a long time like the Warriors to win. But Lebron said, lets have a challenge, give me the worst possible team and i'll win with them and he did!

Lebron was lottery with Ingram/Kuzma/Ball/Caruso

That's pathetic and not top 10 caliber

Then AD arrived and lifted the Lakers from lottery to champion by transforming the defense from worst to first and leading the Lakers in scoring for regular season and playoffs, while also carrying the Lakers to the Finals by dominating Jokic

8Ball

08-11-2022, 05:13 PM

One word that Jordan never overcame:

Dynasties.

/thread.

Thread cliffs.

LeBron overcame dynasties.

Jordan never did.

FilmyCogTurner

08-11-2022, 05:18 PM

Thread cliffs.

8Ball is a remarkably student person.

The Bulls did not beat any dynasties because they WERE THE DYNASTY.

:banana:

GrayGoat

08-11-2022, 05:27 PM

Thread cliffs: MJ had the only stacked deck in the 90’s when that was basically impossible due to expansion

8Ball

08-11-2022, 07:57 PM

Thread cliffs.

8Ball is a remarkably student person.

The Bulls did not beat any dynasties because they WERE THE DYNASTY.

:banana:

Jordan was gifted the most stacked team by Krauss.

Proof below:

- Jordan's most dominant year individually was 91 or 93.

- when the 96 Bulls won 72 games, Jordan didn't even get unanimous MVP voting, in fact he was 4 votes shy.

- When the 2016 Warriors won 73 games, Curry got unanimous MVP because Curry was more dominant than 96 Jordan individually.

So we know for a fact winning 72 games had to do with the absolute stackness of Jordan's teammates relative to the competition.

Gimmedarock

08-11-2022, 10:32 PM

Bron consistently won everywhere he went. No he didn’t win rings every time but he was ALWAYS in the conversation. Rings aren’t everything to me. Watch him play. Who has a more versatile game? As a bonus, he has a legacy of addressing issues off the court. Jordan wasn’t remotely woke.

KNOW1EDGE

08-11-2022, 10:35 PM

Poverty, a fatherless childhood, having an entire NBA franchise thrust onto his shoulders, relentless criticism from strangers.

I’d say he’s done pretty well for himself.

3ba11

08-12-2022, 12:42 AM

Poverty, a fatherless childhood

After Lebron was discovered at 10 years old, he moved in with the coach and was completely coddled more than anyone...

He was completely spoiled and his homies wouldn't even let him get in fights.. that's why he's so soft - he was infact coddled as a kid and teenager.. He never had it tough and his Mom was getting Hummers in high school

having an entire NBA franchise thrust onto his shoulders

Everyone had a franchise thrust upon them... :facepalm:

Bird, Jordan, Isiah - everyone.

My god, you guys are so f*cking weak:

"He had a whole franchise thrust upon him"

Really? the WHOLE franchise? not the WHOLE franchise - no way... who could possibly handle that???... Oh I know - literally everyone... You guys are dumbasses - literally dumb as shit

having an entire NBA franchise thrust onto his shoulders

Lebron won 1 chip with Cleveland and he didn't overcome anything - he hand-picked the Year 1 favorite in 2015 and 2016 (preseason favorite) - hand-picking the Year 1 favorite is the easiest path possible

2 top ten players were added to Kyrie's Cavs (super-team).

I’d say he’s done pretty well for himself.

Absolute garbage compared to MJ, Bird, Kobe and others

He hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 (6 straight years) but only win 3 chips

After Lebron lost as the favorite in 09' and 10', he fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') except the Ray Allen miracle.. Then he was lottery or 1st Round in the West for 2019, 2021 and 2022.

So no one underachieves the expectation like Lebron's shit brand of ball.. 4 for 20 is a garbage winning frequency given his hand-picked rosters

StrongLurk

08-12-2022, 10:05 AM

After Lebron was discovered at 10 years old, he moved in with the coach and was completely coddled more than anyone...

He was completely spoiled and his homies wouldn't even let him get in fights.. that's why he's so soft - he was infact coddled as a kid and teenager.. He never had it tough and his Mom was getting Hummers in high school

Everyone had a franchise thrust upon them... :facepalm:

Bird, Jordan, Isiah - everyone.

My god, you guys are so f*cking weak:

"He had a whole franchise thrust upon him"

Really? the WHOLE franchise? not the WHOLE franchise - no way... who could possibly handle that???... Oh I know - literally everyone... You guys are dumbasses - literally dumb as shit

Lebron won 1 chip with Cleveland and he didn't overcome anything - he hand-picked the Year 1 favorite in 2015 and 2016 (preseason favorite) - hand-picking the Year 1 favorite is the easiest path possible

2 top ten players were added to Kyrie's Cavs (super-team).

Absolute garbage compared to MJ, Bird, Kobe and others

He hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 (6 straight years) but only win 3 chips

After Lebron lost as the favorite in 09' and 10', he fell from preseason favorite to Finals underdog or loser for 6 straight years (11-16') except the Ray Allen miracle.. Then he was lottery or 1st Round in the West for 2019, 2021 and 2022.

So no one underachieves the expectation like Lebron's shit brand of ball.. 4 for 20 is a garbage winning frequency given his hand-picked rosters

It's hilarious you calling anybody "soft". You've been in a permanent meltdown for over a decade over Lebron, yet you call him "soft"? You need help son.

Axe

08-12-2022, 10:06 AM

It's hilarious you calling anybody "soft". You've been in a permanent meltdown for over a decade over Lebron, yet you call him "soft"? You need help son.
:roll:

1987_Lakers

08-12-2022, 10:10 AM

It's hilarious you calling anybody "soft". You've been in a permanent meltdown for over a decade over Lebron, yet you call him "soft"? You need help son.

:oldlol:

FilmyCogTurner

08-12-2022, 11:02 AM

The real funny part is 3ball isn't melty at all and in actuality its the Bronsexuals who are in perpetual meltdown mode even across their alts. Here's a laughing emoji for you guys :roll:

sdot_thadon

08-12-2022, 11:13 AM

Jordan did that for multi-game stretches against real opposition:

Games 3-5 of 93' Finals..... 48/10/6

And nearly for entire series:

90' Jordan vs Sixers........ 43/7/7
89' Jordan vs Cavs.......... 40/8/8
89' Jordan vs Knicks....... 37/8/10

MJ hasn't had a game like that, ever. The stakes, the level of comp, the age. Well.....technically Mj had a pretty close to identical scenario play out in the 1989 ECF, the not widely known 8 shot game in his own game 5. He could have done something similar almost 20 years before Lebron did. But anyhow, Lebron showed us where he was going as a player in that series. I think if he hadn't done that to the Pistons, hed have done better in the finals. But coach Pop saw that coming and said "nah, not us buddy" No one that i can recall has put up a game like that one, it's a truly unique all-time great performance.

Lebron couldn't conquer the East with homecourt advantage and the league favorite, so he formed super-teams in a conference that was routinely won by 1-star teams and wide open for the next decade.

What exactly were the 08 Celtics? And I'm fairly certain the Pistons were sending 3 or 4 guys to the allstar game around that time as well. One star teams doe.

Garnett was a 13/7 bum post-injury and the Celtics were an old, 50-win teams, so the Cavs were massive favorites in 2010 - unfortunately, Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose a 2-1 lead and blow it

he:s the only player in history to lose as the 60-win favorite for 2 straight years.

He didn't beat the Celtics until Garnett/Allen/Pierce were 34/35/33, while MJ beat actual champions that were 29/27/29 (Isiah/Dumars/Rodman).
Those Celtics you're trying to diminish gave Kobe's Lakers everything they could handle in the finals the previous season. They were literally less than a minute from being world champs themselves.

Lebron had the preseason favorite, so that title gets overrated - the on-paper talent was obviously there, so it's Lebron's fault for lacking the brand of ball to maintain favorite status and flirt with 70 wins like his peers (Kawhi, Curry).

Lebron also had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention in the 16' Finals, so he didn't overcome maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals).. This is much easier than carrying the load yourself and facing maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in Finals).
X said
Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 - these Year 1 favorites mean that he didn't build anything or overcome anything -;he was gifted Year 1 favorite status (easiest path possible)
Yeah, preseason favorite is why they hand them the trophy opening night instead of in june right? And Mj never faced "beyond maximum" defensive attention in the finals like Lebron did in 2007, 2015, and 2018. Maximum defensive attention my ass.:oldlol:

ShawkFactory

08-12-2022, 11:13 AM

sdot_thadon

08-12-2022, 11:14 AM

The real funny part is 3ball isn't melty at all and in actuality its the Bronsexuals who are in perpetual meltdown mode even across their alts. Here's a laughing emoji for you guys :roll:

Oh nah, he's been Chernobyl for like a decade solid bud.

FilmyCogTurner

08-12-2022, 11:44 AM

It's the truth and no number of laughing emojis will change that

ShawkFactory

08-12-2022, 12:38 PM

It's the truth and no number of laughing emojis will change that

Repeating something false over and over doesn't make it true.

3ba11

08-12-2022, 01:47 PM

Repeating something false over and over doesn't make it true.

The difference is that you guys are melty ALL THE TIME - your panties STAY in a bunch

Every post is an ad hominem attack or obvious deflection

Otoh, I only get melty a couple times a year, which is how it's supposed to be. We're all is human

ShawkFactory

08-12-2022, 01:52 PM

FilmyCogTurner

08-12-2022, 02:57 PM

The difference is that you guys are melty ALL THE TIME - your panties STAY in a bunch

Every post is an ad hominem attack or obvious deflection

Otoh, I only get melty a couple times a year, which is how it's supposed to be. We're all is human

Panties in a bunch is generous - these dudes assholes swallowed those said panties long ago. No wonder they mad. Hell, I'd be angry too if I wasted the majority of my life stanning a guy who is A, not that good.. and B, does not deserve it.

L after L and no Cool J

Axe

08-12-2022, 04:47 PM

Repeating something false over and over doesn't make it true.
This.

AirBonner

08-12-2022, 07:27 PM

Panties in a bunch is generous - these dudes assholes swallowed those said panties long ago. No wonder they mad. Hell, I'd be angry too if I wasted the majority of my life stanning a guy who is A, not that good.. and B, does not deserve it.

L after L and no Cool J

Hi 3ball

3ba11

08-12-2022, 08:28 PM

The stakes, the level of comp, the age.

Lebron against championship comp from 2007-2011:

07' Lebron Finals..... 22 on 36%
08' Lebron Semis..... 26 on 35%
11' Lebron Finals..... 18 on 47%
10' Lebron Semis..... 21 on 34%*

* for the last 3 games to lose 2-1 lead

^^^ The historical record shows that Lebron was horrible against championship comp from 2007-2011 until Wade finally got through to him on how to perform under pressure... :confusedshrug:

Historical record gonna historical record

Well.....technically Mj had a pretty close to identical scenario play out in the 1989 ECF

Pistons were champs and Jordan averaged 30 on 46% against them, while Lebron wet the bed against championship comp from 07-11' until Wade taught him how to win.. (see previous response above)

And against teams like the 07' Pistons (53 wins and #6 SRS), Jordan averaged 35-45 with 9 apg - see the series against the 89' Cavs or 89' Knicks - these were real upsets of low seed vs high seed... or 90' Sixers (43/7/7 vs Barkley's 53-win team and #6 SRS, just like the 07' Pistons).

MJ hasn't had a game like that, ever.

Lots of guys drop 45-50 against garbage teams in the playoffs like AI in Game 7 of the 2001 ECF.

Otoh, Boobie Gibson carried the Cavs to the Finals in the closeout Game with 32 points, while Lebron wet the bed with 20 on 3-11...

Btw, Jordan had many superior games against real competition on the biggest stage like the Finals,bor the franchise altering "the shot" game

MJ hasn't had a game like that, ever.

Lebron only needed 25 ppg to beat Detroit and the Eastern Playoffs, while Jordan never averaged that little in any series..

So the gap in Eastern Conference comp is staggering and historic.. The 00's East is the only conference in history that was won by multiple 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in.. That's the definition of stacking the deck.

AirBonner

08-12-2022, 08:31 PM

Boobie Gibson >>> Pippen

8Ball

08-12-2022, 08:43 PM

The real funny part is 3ball isn't melty at all and in actuality its the Bronsexuals who are in perpetual meltdown mode even across their alts. Here's a laughing emoji for you guys :roll:

Yeah ok, the guy that makes over 1000 lebron threads last 8 years and makes a LeBron thread almost every single day isn't having a meltdown.

You're on crack.

FilmyCogTurner

08-12-2022, 09:44 PM

Hi 3ball

LOL I barely care enough to post on one account

sdot_thadon

08-12-2022, 10:55 PM

Lebron against championship comp from 2007-2011:

07' Lebron Finals..... 22 on 36%
08' Lebron Semis..... 26 on 35%
11' Lebron Finals..... 18 on 47%
10' Lebron Semis..... 21 on 34%*

* for the last 3 games to lose 2-1 lead

^^^ The historical record shows that Lebron was horrible against championship comp from 2007-2011 until Wade finally got through to him on how to perform under pressure... :confusedshrug:

Historical record gonna historical record

Pistons were champs and Jordan averaged 30 on 46% against them, while Lebron wet the bed against championship comp from 07-11' until Wade taught him how to win.. (see previous response above)

And against teams like the 07' Pistons (53 wins and #6 SRS), Jordan averaged 35-45 with 9 apg - see the series against the 89' Cavs or 89' Knicks - these were real upsets of low seed vs high seed... or 90' Sixers (43/7/7 vs Barkley's 53-win team and #6 SRS, just like the 07' Pistons).

Oh is this that thing where we move the goalposts because you can't refute a point? Pass.

Lots of guys drop 45-50 against garbage teams in the playoffs like AI in Game 7 of the 2001 ECF.

Otoh, Boobie Gibson carried the Cavs to the Finals in the closeout Game with 32 points, while Lebron wet the bed with 20 on 3-11...

Btw, Jordan had many superior games against real competition on the biggest stage like the Finals,bor the franchise altering "the shot" game

You can't differentiate 2 different 40 point games lol. It's not the numbers, it's the way it was done. On the road, 29 of the last 30 cavs points. Bucket to go to overtime and gamewinner as well. Everyone in the world knew what he was going to do in that stretch and no one could do a damn thing about it. Lebron told Boobie going into that game 6 he was going to have opportunities before they even took the floor lol. And yeah, of course Mj has had great games of different types, he never had one like that tho.

Lebron only needed 25 ppg to beat Detroit and the Eastern Playoffs, while Jordan never averaged that little in any series..

So the gap in Eastern Conference comp is staggering and historic.. The 00's East is the only conference in history that was won by multiple 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in.. That's the definition of stacking the deck.
Who cares how much he averaged? If you run now you might be able to catch those goalposts, they move pretty quick tho. Never forget. 4 allstar Pistons, Wade/Shaq Heat, iand big 3 Celtics were the East representatives sandwiched around Lebron's 07 appearance. Stop the Cap.

kawhileonard2

08-12-2022, 11:17 PM

How we know Kobe was greater than Lebron is that when both had stacked teams Lebron struggled or got destroyed by Duncan while kobe would destroy Duncan. Lebron knew this fact and thus avoided Kobe.

3ba11

08-12-2022, 11:28 PM

Oh is this that thing where we move the goalposts because you can't refute a point? Pass.

No you were comparing apples and oranges, aka a garbage team to champions

I'm comparing apples to apples by comparing Lebron and Jordan's performance against championship comp

Jordan destroyed championship comp from his 2nd season (86'), while Lebron was literally wetting the bed against championship comp from 07-11' (through his 8th season).

Night and day

You can't differentiate 2 different 40 point games lol. It's not the numbers, it's the way it was done. On the road, 29 of the last 30 cavs points. Bucket to go to overtime and gamewinner as well. Everyone in the world knew what he was going to do in that stretch and no one could do a damn thing about it. Lebron told Boobie going into that game 6 he was going to have opportunities before they even took the floor lol. And yeah, of course Mj has had great games of different types, he never had one like that tho.

Jordan had games and shots that altered a franchise's fortunes and future

Otoh, Lebron's series against the Pistons was the team's peak - it was all downhill after that..

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance lacked the teammate development, fits and brand of ball (coachability) to build a team up and win organically, so he had to be a talent-based winner (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

Who cares how much he averaged?

Averages are important - Lebron won the East (07') and a Finals (13') with several less PPG than Jordan ever averaged - that's significant - it speaks to burden.

Never forget. 4 allstar Pistons, Wade/Shaq Heat, iand big 3 Celtics were the East representatives sandwiched around Lebron's 07 appearance. Stop the Cap.

There were good Eastern teams in 04', 06' and 08' but the majority of years from 01-09' were won by 1-star teams (Iverson, Lebron, Dwight, Kidd twice)

So the conference was mostly win by 1-star teams and was going to be wide open for the next decade, yet that's the conference he formed super-teams in..

kawhileonard2

08-12-2022, 11:30 PM

How we know Kobe was greater than Lebron is that when both had stacked teams Lebron struggled or got destroyed by Duncan while kobe would destroy Duncan. Lebron knew this fact and thus avoided Kobe.

GrayGoat

08-12-2022, 11:33 PM

Kawhi struggles to stay on the hardwood

kawhileonard2

08-12-2022, 11:34 PM

Kawhi struggles to stay on the hardwood

How we know Kobe was greater than Lebron is that when both had stacked teams Lebron struggled or got destroyed by Duncan while kobe would destroy Duncan. Lebron knew this fact and thus avoided Kobe.

sdot_thadon

08-12-2022, 11:44 PM

Jordan had games and shots that altered a franchise's fortunes and future

Otoh, Lebron's series against the Pistons was the team's peak - it was all downhill after that..

Lebron's frontcourt ball-dominance lacked the teammate development, fits and brand of ball (coachability) to build a team up and win organically, so he had to be a talent-based winner (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy).

Averages are important - if Lebron won the East (07') and a Finals (13') with several less PPG than Jordan ever

There were good Eastern teams in 04', 06' and 08' but the majority of years from 01-09' were won by 1-star teams (Iverson, Lebron, Dwight, Kidd twice)

So the conference was mostly win by 1-star teams and was going to be wide open for the next decade, yet that's the conference he formed super-teams in.
Posted all that trash, but can't provide a game Mj had like that one. Because he never had one. Period.

The rest of the post is trash but I'll show you something since you always repost this stupid argument like it's truth.

00 Pacers- Miller, Davis
01 Sixers- AI, Ratliff, Mutombo
02 Nets - Kidd
03 Nets- Kidd
04 Pistons- Wallace
05 Pistons- Wallace
06 Heat- Wade, Shaq (Pistons send 4 guys)
07 Cavs- Lebron ( Pistons send 2 guys)
08 Celtics- Kg, Allen, Pierce (Pistons send 3 guys)
09 Magic - Dwight, Lewis, Nelson
10 Celtics- Kg, Rondo, Pierce

Allstars on each team that won the East in the 2000s.

Mostly one star teams right? Stop the Cap.

kawhileonard2

08-12-2022, 11:54 PM

How we know Kobe was greater than Lebron is that when both had stacked teams Lebron struggled or got destroyed by Duncan while kobe would destroy Duncan. Lebron knew this fact and thus avoided Kobe.

KNOW1EDGE

08-12-2022, 11:56 PM

I’m with 3ball, all children should be raised in poverty without a father. It’s really an advantage which hurts LeBrons legacy.

Jordan didn’t have that advantage. He was cursed with a nice childhood and 2 loving parents. : (

Axe

08-13-2022, 02:01 AM

3ba11

08-13-2022, 07:41 PM

Posted all that trash, but can't provide a game Mj had like that one. Because he never had one. Period.

Jordan had many superior games that actually built dynasties, while Lebron's Game 5 didn't build anything and was a trainwreck thereafter (08-10' Playoffs and 07' Finals).. His inability to win the East with homecourt caused the "decision" to form super-teams..

He lacked the teammate development, fits and brand of ball to win organically, so he became a talent-based winner (team-hopping.. all-star team strategy)..

00 Pacers- Miller, Davis
01 Sixers- AI, Ratliff, Mutombo
02 Nets - Kidd
03 Nets- Kidd
04 Pistons- Wallace
05 Pistons- Wallace
06 Heat- Wade, Shaq (Pistons send 4 guys)
07 Cavs- Lebron ( Pistons send 2 guys)
08 Celtics- Kg, Allen, Pierce (Pistons send 3 guys)
09 Magic - Dwight, Lewis, Nelson
10 Celtics- Kg, Rondo, Pierce

Allstars on each team that won the East in the 2000s.

Mostly one star teams right? Stop the Cap.

In 2005 and 2009, the Cavs were 1-star teams despite having 2 all-stars.

Similarly, Rashard Lewis wasn't a "star", while Jameer Nelson was hurt for the 09' Playoffs - the Magic had the injury excuse but still won.. lol

They won as historic underdogs (1 of the 5 biggest Vegas upsets in NBA history).

So the 09' Magic were a 1-star team just like the Kidd Nets and 07' Cavs - that's 4 years of 1-star teams and the Iverson carry-job is universally-recognized as a 1-star team (STOP it)...

So that's 5 of 9 years from 01-09' that the East was won by 1-star teams (the majority)... it's the only conference in history that was won by multiple, different 1-star teams, yet that's the conference that Lebron formed super-teams in.

light

08-13-2022, 08:06 PM

Nothing

He formed super-teams to beat the ancient, underdog Celtics and then AD brought him a title out West (lottery before AD)

Furthermore, two top 10 players were added to the 15' Cavs (Love, Lebron), so they were the 15' and 16' preseason favorites.. Year 1 favorites in 11' and 15' meant that Lebron didn't have to BUILD anything..

Ultimately, the "comp" argument doesn't work for preseason favorites because that would reward underachieving the expectation..

Bron overcame the entire league's obsession with stopping him. That defense that Thibs made famous on the Celtics - it was created to stop LeBron. Thibs brought it to the Bulls, to stop LeBron.

Every NBA team copied that defense in some way and today NBA defenses have become experts at stopping one player using those principles because of LeBron.

To 2.9 - to stop LeBron.
Shrink the floor - to stop LeBron.

When a player goes to the finals 8 consecutive times that means he has a giant target on his back with every team in his conference focused on devising ways to defeat him and the Eastern conference never figured it out.

KNOW1EDGE

08-13-2022, 09:24 PM

Jordan's father was killed due to his gambling habits.

It’s actually quite amusing that people still spew this and expect people to believe it as fact.

Michael Jordan’s dad was robbed and killed while he parked his sports car on the side of the road to sleep.-those are actual proven facts that we KNOW.

Conspiracy theorists at the time claimed Michael Jordan had a gambling debt and his father was killed because of it. If you believe that, with absolutely not a single shred of evidence, you are retarded.

3ba11

08-13-2022, 09:30 PM

Bron overcame the entire league's obsession with stopping him. That defense that Thibs made famous on the Celtics - it was created to stop LeBron. Thibs brought it to the Bulls, to stop LeBron.

Every NBA team copied that defense in some way and today NBA defenses have become experts at stopping one player using those principles because of LeBron.

To 2.9 - to stop LeBron.
Shrink the floor - to stop LeBron.

When a player goes to the finals 8 consecutive times that means he has a giant target on his back with every team in his conference focused on devising ways to defeat him and the Eastern conference never figured it out.

You can't "overcome" anything if you already have the preseason favorite - he hand-picked the preseason favorite from 11-16' (super-teams) yet you think he "overcame" Rose's 1-star Bulls?

And Bosh outplayed Lebron against Chicago - he saved Lebron..

Lebron was a 1-trick pony and just another career-losing ball-dominator like Luka until the "decision" to stack the deck..

People forget that Dwight won the East with a 1-star team in 09' and Lebron had a 62-win, 1 seed in the 10' East.. aka 1-star teams were clearly enough to win the East, so Lebron's super-teams were massive overkill