jordon extremist alts' case for jordon being GOAT: Jack of all trades, Master of none

[TheGoatest]

:oldlol: When it comes to the criteria for GOAThood, the alts cannot pick a lane to stay in if his life depended on it:

Winning = Bill Russell is superior
Stats = LeBron and Wilt are superior
Longevity = LeBron and Kareem are superior

Instead, the alts desperately try to adjust the 3 of the criteria above in accordance with which player he is arguing jordon is superior than. Shit is hilarious to watch. :roll:

[RRR3]

Meltdown

[dankok8]

It's true that Jordan's case relies on a combination of factors but there is another factor you didn't mention that most people associate with MJ that gives him an edge.

Domination = Jordan is superior

MJ never got clearly outplayed by anyone in the playoffs while all other GOAT candidates did many times.

MJ won 10 scoring titles and carried the highest offensive loads in playoff history.

And you can have Wilt in the regular season but Lebron isn't superior in stats. Prime Jordan from 1988-1993 was putting up better numbers.

[HoopsNY]

The longevity argument favors LeBron, but actually hurts him, too. If you play longer, you should accumulate more. The problem is, you can't play significantly more and still, somehow, acquire less.

So if MJ played 13 seasons with Chicago (11 full), and managed in that time to somehow win more scoring titles (by a significant margin), more All-Defensive selections, more DPOY awards, more MVPs, more FMVPs, and more titles, then the longevity argument doesn't help LeBron in this case, it actually hurts him.

Add that to what dankok said, and it him having the better years peak for peak, then it's actually not comparable.

If career accomplishments were all that matter (without any context), then yes, I'd say the two are neck and neck, and could reason with putting LeBron #1. But the game is far more complexed than that.

[RRR3]

It's true that Jordan's case relies on a combination of factors but there is another factor you didn't mention that most people associate with MJ that gives him an edge.

Domination = Jordan is superior

MJ never got clearly outplayed by anyone in the playoffs while all other GOAT candidates did many times.

MJ won 10 scoring titles and carried the highest offensive loads in playoff history.

And you can have Wilt in the regular season but Lebron isn't superior in stats. Prime Jordan from 1988-1993 was putting up better numbers.
Never eh? OP is ridiculous but so is this comment.

[RogueBorg]

The longevity argument favors LeBron, but actually hurts him, too. If you play longer, you should accumulate more. The problem is, you can't play significantly more and still, somehow, acquire less.

So if MJ played 13 seasons with Chicago (11 full), and managed in that time to somehow win more scoring titles (by a significant margin), more All-Defensive selections, more DPOY awards, more MVPs, more FMVPs, and more titles, then the longevity argument doesn't help LeBron in this case, it actually hurts him.

Add that to what dankok said, and it him having the better years peak for peak, then it's actually not comparable.

If career accomplishments were all that matter (without any context), then yes, I'd say the two are neck and neck, and could reason with putting LeBron #1. But the game is far more complexed than that.

Excellent post :applause:

[3ba11]

:oldlol: When it comes to the criteria for GOAThood, the alts cannot pick a lane to stay in if his life depended on it:

Winning = Bill Russell is superior
Stats = LeBron and Wilt are superior
Longevity = LeBron and Kareem are superior

Instead, the alts desperately try to adjust the 3 of the criteria above in accordance with which player he is arguing jordon is superior than. Shit is hilarious to watch. :roll:


Career stats aren't the relevant stats

Production rate (dominance) is what matters and Jordan leads all production rate stats like PPG, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, plus/minus, raptor - he simply dominated the most..

No one else reached 30 ppg career playoff except Jordan is at 33.5.. A massive gap (4-5 ppg more than everyone)

And only Jordan won 6 rings as the absolute man on his team - Russell didn't face any defensive attention because he wasn't a primary scoring option for most of his rings.. Otoh, Jordan is the only guy that faced MAXIMUM defensive attention in every series (carried scoring load in every series).

[dankok8]

Never eh? OP is ridiculous but so is this comment.

What is ridiculous about what I said?

[Hey Yo]

33.5ppg on 28fga

[FilmyCogTurner]

I don't think this thread is going as well as they had hoped.

:biggums:

[RRR3]

What is ridiculous about what I said?
You think there’s no chance he wasn’t outplayed in this series by Cummings and/or Moncrief as a rookie? https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1985-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-bucks.html

Or in this one by Bird? https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1987-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

He didn’t exactly have a good series here either outside of one huge game. https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-knicks.html Pippen bailed him out here tbh. Not knocking him you need your teammates to step up obviously.

[TheGoatest]

He was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the 1996 finals. And his team would've been in the exact same spot as the previous season against the Magic if they hadn't acquired Dennis Rodman to clean up jordon's brickage.

[RRR3]

Believing MJ was never outplayed, even in the series that I brought up (+the 96 finals which I forgot but was listed after), simply because he had the most PPG regardless of efficiency or team success, would require you to concede that LeBron was the best player in the 2014, 2015 and 2018 finals which I doubt most MJ fans are willing to do. It also would make criticism of LeBron losing the 09 ECF despite averaging almost 40 PPG on excellent efficiency highly dubious.

[TheMan]

Meltdown

Lol, when even a LeBron stan recognizes how bad another LeBron stan is melting down, then it really has to be BAD :lol

[TheMan]

He was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the 1996 finals. And his team would've been in the exact same spot as the previous season against the Magic if they hadn't acquired Dennis Rodman to clean up jordon's brickage.

After the Bulls were up 3-0, no one back then thought the Bulls would shit the bed 4 straight times. Kemp put up nice numbers when it was all but said and done :confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

BTW, as an MJ stan, I can readily admit LeBron has had the better longevity, that really isn't up for debate.. also not up for debate and if all you Bran stans are being honest, you have to admit MJ had the better peak and dominated his era thoroughly, something LeBron never accomplished.

tl:dr MJ accomplished more in less time (better peak), LeBron played at a higher level in more years (better longevity)...as one of MJ fans senior members here, this is my olive branch to the LeBran Fam, take it or leave it but I warn you, it will get very messy if you leave my outstretched hand unshaken.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8ta3K-pPkZf_v_59QahesdS7reWiORZwo7g&usqp=CAU

[AirBonner]

^ 3 posts in a row by this guy but he’s not melting down in anyway

[TheMan]

^ 3 posts in a row by this guy but he’s not melting down in anyway

In what post am I melting down? I'm answering two different posts coherently and posting a thought in my third.

[8Ball]

:oldlol: When it comes to the criteria for GOAThood, the alts cannot pick a lane to stay in if his life depended on it:

Winning = Bill Russell is superior
Stats = LeBron and Wilt are superior
Longevity = LeBron and Kareem are superior

Instead, the alts desperately try to adjust the 3 of the criteria above in accordance with which player he is arguing jordon is superior than. Shit is hilarious to watch. :roll:

Correct.

First its 6/6 but then Bill Russell is 11/13 so rings argument doesn't work.
Next its 10 scoring titles, but LeBron has the ultimate scoring title so even scoring doesn't work anymore.


Now its discounting longevity because Jordan had none.

[8Ball]

The longevity argument favors LeBron, but actually hurts him, too. If you play longer, you should accumulate more. The problem is, you can't play significantly more and still, somehow, acquire less.

So if MJ played 13 seasons with Chicago (11 full), and managed in that time to somehow win more scoring titles (by a significant margin), more All-Defensive selections, more DPOY awards, more MVPs, more FMVPs, and more titles, then the longevity argument doesn't help LeBron in this case, it actually hurts him.

Add that to what dankok said, and it him having the better years peak for peak, then it's actually not comparable.

If career accomplishments were all that matter (without any context), then yes, I'd say the two are neck and neck, and could reason with putting LeBron #1. But the game is far more complexed than that.

Jordan's peak years are about as equal to LeBrons or worse.

[97 bulls]

I stated this in another thread. Based on the criteria presented, why was Kareem never considered the consensus GOAT? The fact is, Lebron isn't chasing Jordan's numbers. He passed Jordan years ago. So why is Jordan considered the GOAT by many even to this day when he doesn't have the longevity stats? Why aren't you comparing James to Jabaar? If you yourselves feel MJ isn't the GOAT?

This longevity argument is a recent phenomenon. Jordan has always been considered the consensus GOAT.

[97 bulls]

And for the record. The complete saying goes like this:

"A jack of all trades but a master of none, is better than a master of one."

[Spurs m8]

Op spending ALL summer melting down over MJ...

Keep winning, op

[Full Court]

Op spending ALL summer melting down over MJ...

Keep winning, op

Yeah, GynoTits is just desperate with his damage control attempts.

[3ba11]

Believing MJ was never outplayed, even in the series that I brought up (+the 96 finals which I forgot but was listed after), simply because he had the most PPG regardless of efficiency or team success, would require you to concede that LeBron was the best player in the 2014, 2015 and 2018 finals which I doubt most MJ fans are willing to do. It also would make criticism of



LeBron losing the 09 ECF despite averaging almost 40 PPG on excellent efficiency highly dubious.


Lebron cannot carry the scoring load without excessive ball-dominance, which can't beat Finals teams like Orlando (09') or the Warriors (15', 18').. Accordingly, he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match his Finals scoring (12', 13', 16', 20').

So Lebron simply lacks the elite jumpshooting skill (07' Finals, 08' Semis), efficiency at high volume (15' Finals) and brand of ball (09' ECF, 14' Finals) to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load while beating Finals team)..

Otoh, if he could score big amounts while the ball moves, then he could carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams.. This would allow him to win with secondary producers at sidekick like Lowry, Pippen, Klay or Wiggins

[RRR3]

Lebron cannot carry the scoring load without excessive ball-dominance, which can't beat Finals teams like Orlando (09') or the Warriors (15', 18').. Accordingly, he needs all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match his Finals scoring (12', 13', 16', 20').

So Lebron simply lacks the elite jumpshooting skill (07' Finals, 08' Semis), efficiency at high volume (15' Finals) and brand of ball (09' ECF, 14' Finals) to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load while beating Finals team)..

Otoh, if he could score big amounts while the ball moves, then he could carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams.. This would allow him to win with secondary producers at sidekick like Lowry, Pippen, Klay or Wiggins
Literally has nothing to do with what I said you retarded spammer

[kawhileonard2]

How we know Kobe was greater than Lebron is that when both had stacked teams Lebron struggled or got destroyed by Duncan while kobe would destroy Duncan. Lebron knew this fact and thus avoided Kobe.

[kawhileonard2]

He was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the 1996 finals. And his team would've been in the exact same spot as the previous season against the Magic if they hadn't acquired Dennis Rodman to clean up jordon's brickage.

Shawn Kemp won finals mvp?

Kevin Durant in 2017, 2018 did, Kawhi did in 2014, Iggy did in 2015, Dirk did in 2011, Parker did in 2007.

[dankok8]

You think there’s no chance he wasn’t outplayed in this series by Cummings and/or Moncrief as a rookie? https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1985-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-bucks.html

Or in this one by Bird? https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1987-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-bulls-vs-celtics.html

He didn’t exactly have a good series here either outside of one huge game. https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1993-nba-eastern-conference-finals-bulls-vs-knicks.html Pippen bailed him out here tbh. Not knocking him you need your teammates to step up obviously.

I didn't say no chance. He was never clearly outplayed. Those were my words.

[HoopsNY]

I stated this in another thread. Based on the criteria presented, why was Kareem never considered the consensus GOAT? The fact is, Lebron isn't chasing Jordan's numbers. He passed Jordan years ago. So why is Jordan considered the GOAT by many even to this day when he doesn't have the longevity stats? Why aren't you comparing James to Jabaar? If you yourselves feel MJ isn't the GOAT?

This longevity argument is a recent phenomenon. Jordan has always been considered the consensus GOAT.

Yep; you and me both remember the early 90s. The GOAT discussion didn't involve Kareem. It was revisionist history. In fact, people were putting Magic and Bird above him, and they both played just 12 and 13 seasons, respectively.

As a kid, I remember it being about MJ, Magic, Bird, and Russell. Kareem entered the conversation pretty recently IIRC.

[RRR3]

I didn't say no chance. He was never clearly outplayed. Those were my words.
How was he not clearly outplayed by Bird in that series? The efficiency difference is mountainous (66.5% TS to 52.9%) so I’m not giving MJ credit for chucking up
more shots and Bird almost averaged a triple double and swept him. Don’t you claim Durant outplayed LeBron in 2018? Lol be consistent. I don’t know why you think it’s a big deal if he got outplayed anyways everyone has been. It’s only a big deal if you underperform.

[Soundwave]

This is kind of a dumb argument because Jordan does have several of the statisical components you want to see in a GOAT.

For example Wayne Gretzky is universally thought of as hockey GOAT, non-hockey fans nod their head when you say that.

Wayne Gretzky has 10 scoring titles (the most ever in hockey) and the highest PPG in NHL history.

Michael Jordan has 10 scoring titles (the most ever in basketball) and the highest PPG in NBA history, regular season and playoffs.

LeBron has 1 whopping scoring title period, what kind of GOAT in any sport only has 1 scoring title (home run title, most passing yards in a season, whatever).

As the no.1 option, Jordan also has 6 titles, no one else has more than 5 (sorry Kareem, but Magic was the man by the Lakers later titles, Russell was sometimes the 3rd or 4th option on the Celtics offence).

Do people actually spend more than 30 ****ing seconds thinking about making a topic here? Brain dead.

Overall points is also just a measure of longevity, the NBA's top scorer is judged statistically by PPG, and Jordan is the highest ever. Otherwise Karl Malone should be like a top 4-5 player, he has the 3rd most points in NBA history but virtually no one has Karl Malone in their top 10.

[TheGoatest]

:roll: @ the desperation and the mental gymnastics

Wayne Gretzky (the most consensus GOAT in a team sport) is waaaay more like LeBron than like jordon.

Gretzky has 4 titles, the same amount LeBron has.

A player who has won the NHL MVP while playing in Gretzky's own era (Bryan Trottier) has 6 titles (2 more than Gretzky), yet no one would dream of ever calling him better than Gretzky.

Gretzky's "10 scoring titles" don't refer to "goal scoring titles", which is the equivalent of basketball scoring titles. Gretzky has 5 top goal scorer titles.
Alex Ovechkin has 9 goal scoring titles (so far), yet just like Trottier no one would ever dream of calling him better than Gretzky.
Gretzky's 10 scoring titles refer to "goals + assists", aka hockey point titles.
If we convert that to basketball:

LeBron's career ppg = 27.1 ppg
LeBron's career apg = 7.4 apg
LeBron's career "hockey points" per game = 41.9 hppg (assuming all of his assists were 2 pointers, which they obviously weren't, and he has way more assists on 3 pointers than jordon)

jordon's career ppg = 30.1 ppg
jordon's career apg = 5.3 apg
jordon's career "hockey points" per game = 40.7 hppg

And keep in mind LeBron has played 1366 career games, compared to jordon's 1072, so not only is his average higher, but sustained over way more career games played.
Way to set yourself up for a complete FAIL. :facepalm :roll:

[Baller789]

:roll: @ the desperation and the mental gymnastics

Wayne Gretzky (the most consensus GOAT in a team sport) is waaaay more like LeBron than like jordon.

Gretzky has 4 titles, the same amount LeBron has.

A player who has won the NHL MVP while playing in Gretzky's own era (Bryan Trottier) has 6 titles (2 more than Gretzky), yet no one would dream of ever calling him better than Gretzky.

Gretzky's "10 scoring titles" don't refer to "goal scoring titles", which is the equivalent of basketball scoring titles. Gretzky has 5 top goal scorer titles.
Alex Ovechkin has 9 goal scoring titles (so far), yet just like Trottier no one would ever dream of calling him better than Gretzky.
Gretzky's 10 scoring titles refer to "goals + assists", aka hockey point titles.
If we convert that to basketball:

LeBron's career ppg = 27.1 ppg
LeBron's career apg = 7.4 apg
LeBron's career "hockey points" per game = 41.9 hppg (assuming all of his assists were 2 pointers, which they obviously weren't, and he has way more assists on 3 pointers than jordon)

jordon's career ppg = 30.1 ppg
jordon's career apg = 5.3 apg
jordon's career "hockey points" per game = 40.7 hppg

And keep in mind LeBron has played 1366 career games, compared to jordon's 1072, so not only is his average higher, but sustained over way more career games played.
Way to set yourself up for a complete FAIL. :facepalm :roll:

Why doesnt Lebron have more award accomplishments if he played more games?

[dankok8]

How was he not clearly outplayed by Bird in that series? The efficiency difference is mountainous (66.5% TS to 52.9%) so I’m not giving MJ credit for chucking up
more shots and Bird almost averaged a triple double and swept him. Don’t you claim Durant outplayed LeBron in 2018? Lol be consistent. I don’t know why you think it’s a big deal if he got outplayed anyways everyone has been. It’s only a big deal if you underperform.

He wasn't clearly outplayed by Bird in 1987. Jordan was better than Bird in both Game 1 and Game 2 and then Bird was better in Game 3.

People never seeing Jordan get clearly outplayed is a big part of the reason why he's the GOAT. Are you really disputing that he was more dominant in his prime compared to Lebron? It's common knowledge no matter which side of the argument you're on.

[RRR3]

He wasn't clearly outplayed by Bird in 1987. Jordan was better than Bird in both Game 1 and Game 2 and then Bird was better in Game 3.

People never seeing Jordan get clearly outplayed is a big part of the reason why he's the GOAT. Are you really disputing that he was more dominant in his prime compared to Lebron? It's common knowledge no matter which side of the argument you're on.
That’s not how it works. Jordan was godawful in game 3 while Bird was great throughout. I’m not disputing anything just pointing out inconsistencies. Jordan being more dominant than LeBron isn’t really common knowledge the way you’d like it to be anymore I hate to break it to you.

[Soundwave]

:roll: @ the desperation and the mental gymnastics

Wayne Gretzky (the most consensus GOAT in a team sport) is waaaay more like LeBron than like jordon.

Gretzky has 4 titles, the same amount LeBron has.

A player who has won the NHL MVP while playing in Gretzky's own era (Bryan Trottier) has 6 titles (2 more than Gretzky), yet no one would dream of ever calling him better than Gretzky.

Gretzky's "10 scoring titles" don't refer to "goal scoring titles", which is the equivalent of basketball scoring titles. Gretzky has 5 top goal scorer titles.
Alex Ovechkin has 9 goal scoring titles (so far), yet just like Trottier no one would ever dream of calling him better than Gretzky.
Gretzky's 10 scoring titles refer to "goals + assists", aka hockey point titles.
If we convert that to basketball:

LeBron's career ppg = 27.1 ppg
LeBron's career apg = 7.4 apg
LeBron's career "hockey points" per game = 41.9 hppg (assuming all of his assists were 2 pointers, which they obviously weren't, and he has way more assists on 3 pointers than jordon)

jordon's career ppg = 30.1 ppg
jordon's career apg = 5.3 apg
jordon's career "hockey points" per game = 40.7 hppg

And keep in mind LeBron has played 1366 career games, compared to jordon's 1072, so not only is his average higher, but sustained over way more career games played.
Way to set yourself up for a complete FAIL. :facepalm :roll:

You do realize that LeBron's PPG and APG are probably going to fall in the next 3-4 seasons that he plays right? That number is not going to be the one he retires with it will likely drop below 40.7 hppg. Not that most sports fans are even going to give a shit about the metric you outlined, but OK lets go with it, most sports fans will only see "10 scoring titles for Gretzky, 10 scoring titles for Jordan".

Wayne Gretzky won the Rocket Ricard trophy (most goals) 5 times too, even if you equate NHL goals to NBA points only, why does LeBron only have 1 equivalent to that?

If Trottier had 10 Art Ross trophies and was the no.1 player on the Islanders, sure there would be lots of people saying he's better than Gretzky. The offensive catalyst for the Islanders dynasty was Mike Bossy, not Trottier. The last two Cups Trottier won with Pittsburgh he was a shell of the player he used to be, just a role player at that point.

The fact is neither in hockey or basketball is there 1 player who has 6 championships as the no.1 offensive option.

Not Gretzky, not Kareem, not Russell, not Wilt, not Lemieux, not Bossy, not Messier, not Crosby, and not LeBron either. Most guys get to 4 and then hit a brick wall. No shame in having 4, but it just then tells you have incredible it is to have 6.

[dankok8]

That’s not how it works. Jordan was godawful in game 3 while Bird was great throughout. I’m not disputing anything just pointing out inconsistencies. Jordan being more dominant than LeBron isn’t really common knowledge the way you’d like it to be anymore I hate to break it to you.

Bird had 17 points in Game 1, MJ had 35 and on great efficiency. Bird had 29 in Game 2, MJ had 42 on great efficiency. Bird only outplayed him in Game 3. Don't be biased man.

Most people consider peak Jordan to have been a better player than peak Lebron. Ben Taylor did a more thorough analysis than anyone. Jordan has better boxscore stats (by a solid margin), better advanced stats (by a smidge), and better scalability (by a solid margin). Most people on his patreon are extremely knowledgeable about the game and something like 70% of them had Jordan as the best peak. About 15% had Lebron and then the rest had mostly Shaq or someone else. There isn't really much objective data to justify having Lebron over Jordan as a basketball player while there is a lot to justify Jordan over Lebron.

Now if you go for career value then you can certainly argue Lebron because of his edge in longevity.

[RRR3]

Bird had 17 points in Game 1, MJ had 35 and on great efficiency. Bird had 29 in Game 2, MJ had 42 on great efficiency. Bird only outplayed him in Game 3. Don't be biased man.

Most people consider peak Jordan to have been a better player than peak Lebron. Ben Taylor did a more thorough analysis than anyone. Jordan has better boxscore stats (by a solid margin), better advanced stats (by a smidge), and better scalability (by a solid margin). Most people on his patreon are extremely knowledgeable about the game and something like 70% of them had Jordan as the best peak. About 15% had Lebron and then the rest had mostly Shaq or someone else. There isn't really much objective data to justify having Lebron over Jordan as a basketball player while there is a lot to justify Jordan over Lebron.

Now if you go for career value then you can certainly argue Lebron because of his edge in longevity.
I have Jordan ranked first it’s hilarious how insecure you are.

[outofstomach]

This is kind of a dumb argument because Jordan does have several of the statisical components you want to see in a GOAT.

For example Wayne Gretzky is universally thought of as hockey GOAT, non-hockey fans nod their head when you say that.

Wayne Gretzky has 10 scoring titles (the most ever in hockey) and the highest PPG in NHL history.

Michael Jordan has 10 scoring titles (the most ever in basketball) and the highest PPG in NBA history, regular season and playoffs.

LeBron has 1 whopping scoring title period, what kind of GOAT in any sport only has 1 scoring title (home run title, most passing yards in a season, whatever).

As the no.1 option, Jordan also has 6 titles, no one else has more than 5 (sorry Kareem, but Magic was the man by the Lakers later titles, Russell was sometimes the 3rd or 4th option on the Celtics offence).

Do people actually spend more than 30 ****ing seconds thinking about making a topic here? Brain dead.

Overall points is also just a measure of longevity, the NBA's top scorer is judged statistically by PPG, and Jordan is the highest ever. Otherwise Karl Malone should be like a top 4-5 player, he has the 3rd most points in NBA history but virtually no one has Karl Malone in their top 10.
LEBRON HAS 1 SCORING TITLE? :lol

[dankok8]

I have Jordan ranked first it’s hilarious how insecure you are.

How the **** am I insecure? You made a point and I answered you.

Geez I thought you're one of the good posters here.

[coastalmarker99]

Most people view Jordan as the Goat because he is a mixture of Russell and Wilt.


Wilt has the stats and individual dominance but lacks the rings.


Russell has the rings but lacks the stats and individual dominance on both sides of the court.


As for Jordan, he has the stats and individual dominance to go along with winning the most rings as the number one option in NBA history which makes him the Goat in most people's eyes.

[coastalmarker99]

I will say this if not for Russell there wouldn't be a goat debate nowadays.

As without Russell.

Chamberlain would be viewed as the undisputed god-like figure in Basketball history even over Jordan.

He would have retired as the leader in points, points per game, rebounds, and rebounds per game (eta - by huge margins).

He would have been considered the best defensive player of all time.

He most likely would have between 7 and 9 rings and 6 MVPs.


The game would have been divided into pre-Wilt and post-Wilt eras.

The fact that Russell and his teams were able to prevent this from happening is a fairly compelling argument for Russell's greatness and his GOAT case.


As Imagine if Duncan's Spurs kept the Lakers to 1 championship or Magic kept Bird to just one ring in the 1980s!

[light]

Jordan's case relies entirely on his accomplishments with Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. Michael Jordan has no case without Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson.

Remove the efforts of Pippen and Jackson and what does Michael Jordan have? No rings. A few MVPs. A bunch of scoring titles. Then where would he rank all-time? It wouldn't be in the top 5.

[SATAN]

BTW, as an MJ stan, I can readily admit LeBron has had the better longevity, that really isn't up for debate.. also not up for debate and if all you Bran stans are being honest, you have to admit MJ had the better peak and dominated his era thoroughly, something LeBron never accomplished.

tl:dr MJ accomplished more in less time (better peak), LeBron played at a higher level in more years (better longevity)...as one of MJ fans senior members here, this is my olive branch to the LeBran Fam, take it or leave it but I warn you, it will get very messy if you leave my outstretched hand unshaken.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8ta3K-pPkZf_v_59QahesdS7reWiORZwo7g&usqp=CAU

LeBron would easily average 40/10/10 against those mechanics and grocery baggers.

[2much_knowledge]

:oldlol: When it comes to the criteria for GOAThood, the alts cannot pick a lane to stay in if his life depended on it:

Winning = Bill Russell is superior
Stats = LeBron and Wilt are superior
Longevity = LeBron and Kareem are superior

Instead, the alts desperately try to adjust the 3 of the criteria above in accordance with which player he is arguing jordon is superior than. Shit is hilarious to watch. :roll:

This topic again....

Simple question. Who achieved more in the modern era in less time? What other player could afford to retire twice in prime and still be more decoraded? Who among the goats played along side less allstar teammates??

Who represents basketball when they do cross sport legends comparisons?? Then you add style, eye test, popularity and marketing ability and money grossed and no one is in his league

[bullettooth]

If you need to make this many desperate threads to prop up LeBron, it means he's not the goat.