Nba tv is playing the 07 finals.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s on in this bar I’m in. I’m surprised Lebron looks so old in 07. I expected him to look like a kid.

These are some(relative) bums out here.

Big Z hadn’t gone totally bald though. I always liked his offensive rebounding and tip outs. He looks younger than I remember not that he’s really doing much.

[1987_Lakers]

Wasn't the finale of The Sopranos more watched than the Finals that year?

[Kblaze8855]

Drew gotdamn Gooden….

I hated him on the Bulls. I imagine Cavs fans did too. He’s making Big Z look like Hakeem on both ends right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Wasn't the finale of The Sopranos more watched than the Finals that year?


I wouldn’t be surprised. Tv finales of that level are often huge. Being on hBo obviously limits it though. I’m positive I watched it.

[SouBeachTalents]

I wouldn’t be surprised. Tv finales of that level are often huge. Being on hBo obviously limits it though. I’m positive I watched it.
I had never even watched the Sopranos to that point and I still tuned in to the finale :lol I, like millions of others I'm sure, legit thought the cable went out when it cut to black.

[Kblaze8855]

Im getting 01 finals feelings watching this. Every time I look at either series I’m reminded how little of a **** teams gave about Eric snow. He’s goes hard on a curl to get open up top and Manu didn’t so much as jog after. He gets it…remembers he can’t shoot…drives in to miss a floater…they get the rebound and he brings it back out and posts up Drew Gooden for some reason. Manu sags so far off him he steals the entry pass.

That dude should not have been on a finals floor at that age.

[Kblaze8855]

There are 4 centers on the floor at once. Tim Duncan isn’t one of them.

A modern team would be salivating. That said…I almost forgot what it looks like to play off ball defense. Bowen is a criminal and they are holding Boobie a good bit on his cuts too. I love it.

[warriorfan]

I always like the old games on NBATV. I would watch but I got to take care of some things unfortunately. Btw Steph still gets held on cuts in the finals. Been happening for years. There’s three different rule sets in the nba. Regular season rules, playoff rules, and finals rules. It is a little annoying, not the product but the inconsistency. I would rather they call regular season more like playoffs and then let them go at it a little more in the finals.

[Kblaze8855]

Francisco Elson and Jacque Vaughn on the floor together with 3 years washed Finley, Duncan, and Bowen.

Vaughn made 14 threes his final 6 seasons combined.

Hes out here as the primary ball handler being utterly disregarded.

People really act like those Spurs teams were more talented than they were.

[sdot_thadon]

Man Big Z was good to take up space in the middle set big picks and rebound, soft touch on his jumper but anything that required as much as a foot shuffle? Not good for him lol.

[Kblaze8855]

The 3 people on the floor right now who you would identify as a point guard played a combined 223 games in 2007. They made a combined 16 threes. And Tony Parker made 15 of them.

Brent Barry out here pump faking with like 8 feet of space and stepping in for midrange jumpers like he isn’t a 45% 3 point shooter. A 20 year old would be disgusted by this game right now.

[Kblaze8855]

I always like the old games on NBATV. I would watch but I got to take care of some things unfortunately. Btw Steph still gets held on cuts in the finals. Been happening for years. There’s three different rule sets in the nba. Regular season rules, playoff rules, and finals rules. It is a little annoying, not the product but the inconsistency. I would rather they call regular season more like playoffs and then let them go at it a little more in the finals.

Relative to the past Steph doesn’t get defended off the ball at all. He gets defended harder than most today obviously because he’s a wmd but nobody can hold like they used to. The nba just didn’t want that in the game.

The way a Starks or Bowen played defense would be literally 6 fouls in the first quarter now.


These are back to back plays from when the rule change started:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TinyLightAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdventurousSolidDobermanpinscher-size_restricted.gif


They absolutely screwed defenders and beat it out of them. Bowen is doing all that 5 times a play and they are doing it right back. Routine basketball defense from pre 2015 is flat out illegal.

The players try just as hard if not harder but the rules are against them.

[warriorfan]

Relative to the past Steph doesn’t get defended off the ball at all. He gets defended harder than most today obviously because he’s a wmd but nobody can hold like they used to. The nba just didn’t want that in the game.

The way a Starks or Bowen played defense would be literally 6 fouls in the first quarter now.


These are back to back plays from when the rule change started:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TinyLightAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdventurousSolidDobermanpinscher-size_restricted.gif


They absolutely screwed defenders and beat it out of them. Bowen is doing all that 5 times a play and they are doing it right back. Routine basketball defense from pre 2015 is flat out illegal.

The players try just as hard if not harder but the rules are against them.

Not in the finals. You won’t find touch fouls like that during them. Regular season shitfests with teams like Rockets and Pacers? They will call that sort of nonsense. But like I said in the previous post, there are rules for regular season, post season, and finals. All three don’t get called consistently, this isn’t anything new and you have watched basketball plenty long enough to know it. If I was more motivated I would go hunt for some clips from Finals over the past 6 or 7 years. They allow Steph to be held off ball a huge amount of the time during the Finals. I’m not making stuff up. Maybe later tonight I’ll try to find some stuff but I feel like it would be a waste of time because you already know what I’m getting at.

[Kblaze8855]

What I’m saying is even if it is worse during the finals you only notice it because of what you are now used to seeing. The “holding” you see in a modern playoff series is literally less physical off the ball play than an old preseason game.

Finals or not the defense people played on Reggie would literally result in a first quarter foul out today on Steph. Or Dame. Or whoever. And it doesn’t mean Steph can’t be better than those old players(he’s obviously a mile beyond Reggie regardless). It’s not a who is better or has it easier issue. It’s the league deciding what to emphasize and the players correctly adjusting.

Saying players still hold is like saying there are still hard fouls. Sure. There will always be hard fouls. But you can’t compare it to the day to day experience of the time before flagrants existed.

Its a relative thing. Relative to other modern guards some stars get held up more but relative to the games in question nobody is.

Bruce Bowens defense on Ray Allen, Dirk, or Kobe would honestly…no exaggeration…be 6 fouls in 5 minutes called the way they do it now. The way they called it in the clips I showed you is how they are trained to call it. The nba has red training videos you can access at times showing what these fouls are.

By the freedom of movement standards?

Bruce Bowen fouls out after 6-10 trips down the floor. So would Starks, Derek Harper, Payton, Pippen, Jordan, and most of the tough defenders.

They don’t want that in the game anymore.

[97 bulls]

The 3 people on the floor right now who you would identify as a point guard played a combined 223 games in 2007. They made a combined 16 threes. And Tony Parker made 15 of them.

Brent Barry out here pump faking with like 8 feet of space and stepping in for midrange jumpers like he isn’t a 45% 3 point shooter. A 20 year old would be disgusted by this game right now.

Lol

[SaltyMeatballs]

It’s on in this bar I’m in. I’m surprised Lebron looks so old in 07. I expected him to look like a kid.

These are some(relative) bums out here.

Big Z hadn’t gone totally bald though. I always liked his offensive rebounding and tip outs. He looks younger than I remember not that he’s really doing much.

And your first intuition was to post on ISH? :roll:

07 Finals were a snoozefest. Everyone knew the Cavs had no chance against that Spurs team. What I remember most in that matchup was how good Tony Parker was. Felt like all of his floaters were going in

[3ba11]

Each series that people thought the Cavs overperformed (06' ECSF, 07' ECF, 08' ECSF), their defense held the opponent to 4-10 points below regular season ortg.

Defense was the team's calling card - that's how they were competitive despite sometimes anemic offense (26 on 35% for Lebron in 08' Semis).

Only Lebron lost series as 1st option due to shooting efficiency (below 40%), including the 15' Finals, 07' Finals and 08' 2nd Rd

[Lebron23]

And your first intuition was to post on ISH? :roll:

07 Finals were a snoozefest. Everyone knew the Cavs had no chance against that Spurs team. What I remember most in that matchup was how good Tony Parker was. Felt like all of his floaters were going in

That's why LeBron defended Tony Parker in the 2013 NBA Finals. The Spurs played some solid defense on a 22 years old LeBron in the Finals. 2012-2020 LeBron James would have beaten that Spurs team in the Finals.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2091071-how-lebron-james-guarding-tony-parker-stops-san-antonio-spurs-offense

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2007-nba-finals-cavaliers-vs-spurs.html The scores were close despite the talent and skills deficit

[Lebron23]

Each series that people thought the Cavs overperformed (06' ECSF, 07' ECF, 08' ECSF), their defense held the opponent to 4-10 points below regular season ortg.

Defense was the team's calling card - that's how they were competitive despite sometimes anemic offense (26 on 35% for Lebron in 08' Semis).

Only Lebron lost series as 1st option due to shooting efficiency (below 40%), including the 15' Finals, 07' Finals and 08' 2nd Rd

LeBron despite his bad performance in his first 2 finals performance is still averaging more points than Kobe in the NBA Finals. More rebounds and assists too.

[WhiteKyrie]

It’s on in this bar I’m in. I’m surprised Lebron looks so old in 07. I expected him to look like a kid.

These are some(relative) bums out here.

Big Z hadn’t gone totally bald though. I always liked his offensive rebounding and tip outs. He looks younger than I remember not that he’s really doing much.

At that point the game’s top players weren’t committing a coup de etat on their employers and becoming competitive cowards by needing to team and consolidate massive amounts of superstar talent on just a couple teams in each conference.

If Wade who was having a massive MVP caliber season that year didn’t throw out his shoulder, they would’ve been the ones in the Finals for the East anyway.

[Lebron23]

At that point the game’s top players weren’t committing a coup de etat on their employers and becoming competitive cowards by needing to team and consolidate massive amounts of superstar talent on just a couple teams in each conference.

If Wade who was having a massive MVP caliber season that year didn’t throw out his shoulder, they would’ve been the ones in the Finals for the East anyway.

I think that was the season the Bulls swept the Miami Heat in the NBA Finals.

[ShawkFactory]

Each series that people thought the Cavs overperformed (06' ECSF, 07' ECF, 08' ECSF), their defense held the opponent to 4-10 points below regular season ortg.

Defense was the team's calling card - that's how they were competitive despite sometimes anemic offense (26 on 35% for Lebron in 08' Semis).

Only Lebron lost series as 1st option due to shooting efficiency (below 40%), including the 15' Finals, 07' Finals and 08' 2nd Rd

Who were those defensive maestros from 06-08 on the Cavs you speak of??? Lebron being the answer would hurt you.

But I’ll save you. The reason teams scored below their regular averages is because the Cavs at that time played at or among the slowest pace in the league. Hence less points for everyone.

Second-grader.

[WhiteKyrie]

I think that was the season the Bulls swept the Miami Heat in the NBA Finals.
You mean 1st round? Yes. But only because Wade came back too early and was a shell of himself.

Before his injury in Houston he was clearly the best player in the league following his Finals MVP the summer prior. 28/8/8 carrying an old Heat team, sans the now near washed up Shaq for much of it as well.

[1987_Lakers]

You mean 1st round? Yes. But only because Wade came back too early and was a shell of himself.

Before his injury in Houston he was clearly the best player in the league following his Finals MVP the summer prior. 28/8/8 carrying an old Heat team, sans the now near washed up Shaq for much of it as well.

Meh, That Miami team was imploding even before the Wade injury. I remember in the season opener they got destroyed on national TV by like 40 points and everyone in the media just ripped them the very next day.

As a team they were only 26-28 before the Wade injury, nowhere near as good as they were in 2006 when they won a title.

I actually believe their '05 team was their best team in the Shaq-Wade era, better all-around contribution from more players.

[Lebron23]

Meh, That Miami team besides Wade was imploding even before the Wade injury. I remember in the season opener they got destroyed on national TV by like 40 points and everyone in the media just ripped them the very next day.

As a team they were only 26-28 before the Wade injury, nowhere near as good as they were in 2006 when they won a title.

I actually believe their '05 team was their best team, better all-around contribution from more players.

They kinda reminded me of the 2012 Dallas Mavericks after winning the championship in 2011. They kinda imploded.

[1987_Lakers]

The famous Alonzo Mourning gif came from that season opener beatdown.

https://c.tenor.com/t9mA9VFdTyQAAAAM/yes-no.gif

[kawhileonard2]

Wasn't the finale of The Sopranos more watched than the Finals that year?

Lebron doesn't get good ratings that's why.

[kawhileonard2]

I think that was the season the Bulls swept the Miami Heat in the NBA Finals.

You mean 1st round.

[Smook A.]

Lebron doesn't get good ratings that's why.

LeBron carries the ratings

[Wally450]

I remember being in high school then and talking to another friend in the weight room about that Finals series. I said there's no way the Cavs win a game and the Spurs will sweep. My buddy said that the Cavs would take a game. I don't think he realized how much better the Spurs were than the Cavs.

[3ba11]

LeBron despite his bad performance in his first 2 finals performance is still averaging more points than Kobe in the NBA Finals. More rebounds and assists too.


But those stats are within a garbage brand of ball so his TEAM has low assists and the worst Finals record in history of 3-pointer basketball

Lebron's teams are like the "Clippers" of the Finals - lottery record on the championship level (22-33), so his stats mean little - he's literally just chucking on a bad team and losing basketball

Otoh, Kobe had elite jumpshooting skill, which facilitates ball movement and allows a better brand of ball (aka coachable - he doesn't force the coach to run some garbage, "heliocentric" brand that revolves around 1 guy dominating the ball, smh... And people wonder why he's 4/10 on the championship level)

[Manny98]

How did LeBron get to the finals with this garbage on his team :facepalm

[ColinRobinson]

How did LeBron get to the finals with this garbage on his team :facepalm

The only team that they really beat was a ben wallace less detroit.

The other two teams, were really crumbled.

[Manny98]

The only team that they really beat was a ben wallace less detroit.

The other two teams, were really crumbled.

Like that Nets team with prime Richard Jefferson,Vince Carter and Jason Kidd

And LeGOAT basically beat them by himself :bowdown:

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron carries the ratings

Then why does he have the worst ratings in the finals?

[kawhileonard2]

How did LeBron get to the finals with this garbage on his team :facepalm

How did Lebron lose to Jason Terry despite having a proven finals mvp winner? How did Lebron lose with HCA to a German?