If Embiid can score 30 ppg and win a scoring title... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

1987_Lakers

08-29-2022, 11:11 PM

OP can you explain this?

I wouldn't go as far as calling him a cancer.

He kinda forced his way into the Lakers, he demanded a trade from the Sixers. With the Warriors, the franchise was low on money and Wilt and the owner did not get along.

With the right pieces, he could transform a team into title contenders like he did with the Sixers, but there is no doubt in my mind that he is the most overrated offensive player ever. People just look at his stats and are enamored by them without looking at more context.

Wilt averaged 42 ppg in his first 5 seasons with the Warriors, but the Warriors as a team were only an average offense in one of those seasons ('62). They always ranked near the bottom in offense when Wilt was there. Even MJ & LeBron were able to have seasons where they had top 10 offenses when they didn't have much help, LeBron in particular led the Cavs to the #4 offense in '09.

Lakers offense slightly regressed when they added Wilt.
101.7 ORTG without Wilt in '68
98.5 ORTG with Wilt in '69

Sixers offense with and without Wilt...
98.1 ORTG with Wilt in '68
98.1 ORTG without Wilt in '69.

No drop off whatsoever.

To me Wilt gets more overlooked as a defender, he was an all-time great defender in his prime, but his impact on the offensive end wasn't anywhere near as great as some people make it out to be. If he had Russell's mentality and just cared more about winning more than his own stats we might be having Wilt GOAT convos right now. Instead, this is a dude so obsessed with stats and records that he was having this type of reaction when Glen Rice broke his All-star record...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vShi7hQSL1k
10 min mark.

I mean seriously, who the fvck gets this upset about someone breaking your All-star record? :roll:

1987_Lakers

08-29-2022, 11:21 PM

One fact that is also being overlooked, in Wilt's first 5 years in the NBA, his team usually averaged around 105-115 shot attempts a game.

The Sixers in 2022 averaged 84 shot attempts a game, that's 20-30 less shot attempts, in fact the Sixers were one of the slower paced teams in the league. If you adjust the numbers with pace then there is no way in hell Wilt is gonna drop 40 points a game in today's league, it's just common sense.

Mask the Embiid

08-29-2022, 11:21 PM

Just think about how a prime Wilt would do in today's league. It wouldn't even be fair. Who's going to stop him? Rudy Gobert? I can see Giannis maybe giving him a few problems if assigned to guard the paint, but not many others.

He might even break his own single game scoring record.

Idk who you think Giannis is defensively…but Giannis is not that guy pal…trust me, he’s not that guy.

There is not one good center fan base that is worried “man I hope the bucks don’t wake up and put Giannis on our guy” (embiid,jokic,Ad,kat,ect)

FultzNationRISE

08-29-2022, 11:31 PM

Good point. If old and slow Lebron can muscle to the hoop for 30 ppg, just think what prime Wilt would do in today's league.

It wouldn't even be fair.

Hmm, yeah, but so why couldnt every player do that last year, instead of just two of them?

light

08-30-2022, 04:44 AM

Just think about how a prime Wilt would do in today's league. It wouldn't even be fair. Who's going to stop him? Rudy Gobert? I can see Giannis maybe giving him a few problems if assigned to guard the paint, but not many others.

He might even break his own single game scoring record.

Please. There are all sorts of players that can defend Wilt Chamberlain today. He didn't have this type of competition in his early years when he was scoring 100 points on scrubs. The biggest player on the Knicks in 1962 when Wilt scored 100 points was Darrall Imhoff who was 6'9 220.

220 is on the light side for a modern small forward but Imhoff was the Knicks center.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 06:57 AM

Hmm, yeah, but so why couldnt every player do that last year, instead of just two of them?

Uhhhhhh, cause they're two of the top scorers in the league?

Wilt is on a whole other level though.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 07:00 AM

OP can you explain this?

Yes, I can explain it.

The explanation is that you're a Bronie in damage control mode who bristles at Wilt being ranked higher than your hero. :confusedshrug:

"If he had Russell's mentality and just cared more about winning more than his own stats we might be having GOAT convos..."

Oh, the irony! :lol That could describe Bronie to a tee. Bu-bu-but that's hypocrisy! Lol.

:milton

8Ball

08-30-2022, 08:53 AM

Wilt played against white plumbers and averaged 20ppg in the 2nd half of his career while in an era where teams shot much more per game vs today.

20-25 ppg max.

Also a 50% free throw shooter so he would end up like how Dwight ended up, unplayable.

Edit to add: Embiid can shoot 3s, post up, shoot midrange, and shoots 80% from FTs, Embiid is so much more talented than Wilt.

8Ball

08-30-2022, 08:58 AM

Please. There are all sorts of players that can defend Wilt Chamberlain today. He didn't have this type of competition in his early years when he was scoring 100 points on scrubs. The biggest player on the Knicks in 1962 when Wilt scored 100 points was Darrall Imhoff who was 6'9 220.

220 is on the light side for a modern small forward but Imhoff was the Knicks center.

Are you kidding me, 6'9 220 lbs center was guarding Wilt? 220lbs is a large shooting guard today :roll:

RogueBorg

08-30-2022, 09:03 AM

8Ball

08-30-2022, 09:04 AM

Wilt also averaged 48.5 minutes/game at the pace you mentioned in '61-'62 I believe. That in and of itself is amazing.

Not even, look at the competition he played against.

Modern players today could play 60 minutes a game if you imported all those slow ass plumbers from the late 50s into the NBA. I don't think the average NBA player in the late 50s and early 60s would even make a modern college roster if they were in their prime, let alone drafted into the NBA.

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 09:28 AM

Yes, I can explain it.

The explanation is that you're a Bronie in damage control mode who bristles at Wilt being ranked higher than your hero. :confusedshrug:

"If he had Russell's mentality and just cared more about winning more than his own stats we might be having GOAT convos..."

Oh, the irony! :lol That could describe Bronie to a tee. Bu-bu-but that's hypocrisy! Lol.

:milton

I came in and posted real facts about Wilt and your response is "Bronie". Pretty typical.

And no, LeBron is ranked ahead of Wilt in most lists I've seen, you know this too. And LeBron isn't even close to being the stat padder Wilt was. Your trolling game needs some serious work.

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 09:34 AM

Wilt also averaged 48.5 minutes/game at the pace you mentioned in '61-'62 I believe. That in and of itself is amazing.

In today's game he plays 38 mpg max.

RogueBorg

08-30-2022, 10:16 AM

In today's game he plays 38 mpg max.

Wilt averaged over 48 at a much higher pace, why couldn't a young Wilt average 48 at a much slower pace?

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 10:18 AM

Wilt averaged over 48 at a much higher pace, why couldn't a young Wilt average 48 at a much slower pace?

Because teams are not retarded today, you can't play someone 48 mpg. The athletes today are a different animal.

No coach today is gonna be playing someone 48 mpg, get real.

RogueBorg

08-30-2022, 10:25 AM

The athletes today are a different animal.

The athletes today are softer.

FilmyCogTurner

08-30-2022, 02:32 PM

Athletically Giannis would be the closet comparison - game wise I dunno, it would be interesting to see. Wilt as strong as he was seems to have played with a lot of finesse back in his time but I could be wrong about that.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 06:02 PM

I came in and posted real facts about Wilt and your response is "Bronie". Pretty typical.

And no, LeBron is ranked ahead of Wilt in most lists I've seen, you know this too. And LeBron isn't even close to being the stat padder Wilt was. Your trolling game needs some serious work.

Nope, you posted irrelevant facts that had nothing to do with the OP.

But yes, let's talk about stat padding. Stat padding: stats that don't translate into your team winning. Wilt won 2 championships in 15 years. Lebron won 4 championships in 19 seasons, but for one of those championships, he wasn't even the best player on the team.

So if we say both of them are stat padders, then Wilt did it a whole lot better than Bronie did. He led the league in scoring 8 years and in rebounding 11 times. How many times did Lebron do either of those? And that's not even mentioning all of Wilt's numerous other records that still stand.

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 06:57 PM

Nope, you posted irrelevant facts that had nothing to do with the OP.

But yes, let's talk about stat padding. Stat padding: stats

I brought up how Wilt put up those numbers when his team averaged 105-115 shot attempts a game. Embiid averaged 30 when his team averaged 84 shot attempts a game. You completely ignored that post, no way in hell is Wilt gonna average 40 a game with today's league playing at a much slower pace, not to mention he isn't gonna be playing 45 mpg in today's league either. Why did you ignore this fact?

And you do know LeBron had a chance to win the scoring title last season right? As soon as the Lakers got eliminated he shut down the season, someone asked him if he wanted to chase the scoring title and he said, "No". Does that seem like a stat padder to you?

I've watched LeBron his whole career and I've never seen him get accused of stat padding to the level Wilt did, not even close.

"Won 4 chips, but wasn't the best player for one of them".

Most considered him the best player in 2020, but of course you won't admit that.

Hell, you could easily argue Jerry West was the Lakers best player when they won it in 1972, he finished 2nd in MVP voting that year behind Kareem, So in reality Wilt might have 1 title as the best player on the team. :lol

John8204

08-30-2022, 07:17 PM

The big thing about Wilt is that when he changed teams he had to change his style. He couldn't be "the man" he had to be a teammate...once the league expanded and those roster spots opened up you could have a Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, or a Dennis Rodman, Steve Nash, or Ben Wallace. Wilt's not leading the league in assists in todays NBA he's also not stopping at 30K points

Full Court

08-30-2022, 09:16 PM

I brought up how Wilt put up those numbers when his team averaged 105-115 shot attempts a game. Embiid averaged 30 when his team averaged 84 shot attempts a game. You completely ignored that post, no way in hell is Wilt gonna average 40 a game with today's league playing at a much slower pace, not to mention he isn't gonna be playing 45 mpg in today's league either. Why did you ignore this fact?

And you do know LeBron had a chance to win the scoring title last season right? As soon as the Lakers got eliminated he shut down the season, someone asked him if he wanted to chase the scoring title and he said, "No". Does that seem like a stat padder to you?

I've watched LeBron his whole career and I've never seen him get accused of stat padding to the level Wilt did, not even close.

"Won 4 chips, but wasn't the best player for one of them".

Most considered him the best player in 2020, but of course you won't admit that.

Hell, you could easily argue Jerry West was the Lakers best player when they won it in 1972, he finished 2nd in MVP voting that year behind Kareem, So in reality Wilt might have 1 title as the best player on the team. :lol

Lol. Yes, I do know that Lebron had a chance to win the scoring title last year. Homie was gunning for it so much he didn't play defense. But guess what, he didn't make it. You make it sound like he gave up the scoring title just out of generosity. He was inadequate. :confusedshrug:

Bronie is DEFINITELY a stat padder. He's just not even that great at stat padding. :lol

If Wilt could play 48 minutes a game at a high pace, he could certainly play 45 minutes at today's slow pace. Jordan averaged over 40 mpg multiple times. Lebron averaged over 42 mpg in two different seasons. Wilt might break a record and be the first player to ever average 49 mpg. :lol

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 09:43 PM

If Wilt could play 48 minutes a game at a high pace, he could certainly play 45 minutes at today's slow pace. Jordan averaged over 40 mpg multiple times. Lebron averaged over 42 mpg in two different seasons. Wilt might break a record and be the first player to ever average 49 mpg. :lol

A player hasn't played 45 mpg since the 70's, but keep thinking coaches today would play him 45 mpg. :lol

And you still haven't even addressed the insane high pace Wilt played at in the 60's, inflating his stats. Just because he averaged 42 ppg in the early 60's doesn't automatically mean he averages those numbers today.

RRR3

08-30-2022, 09:48 PM

A player hasn't played 45 mpg since the 70's, but keep thinking coaches today would play him 45 mpg. :lol

And you still haven't even addressed the insane high pace Wilt played at in the 60's, inflating his stats. Just because he averaged 42 ppg in the early 60's doesn't automatically mean he averages those numbers today.
Holy shit he thinks Wilt would average the same MPG today? He's quite possibly the stupidest poster on the board.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 09:50 PM

A player hasn't played 45 mpg since the 70's, but keep thinking coaches today would play him 45 mpg. :lol

And you still haven't even addressed the insane high pace Wilt played at in the 60's, inflating his stats. Just because he averaged 42 ppg in the early 60's doesn't automatically mean he averages those numbers today.

Pace is slower, but defense is a TON looser. So he'd plausibly have a much higher field goal %, which would make up for the slower pace.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 09:51 PM

Holy shit he thinks Wilt would average the same MPG today? He's quite possibly the stupidest poster on the board.

:lol

You saying that is like Axe calling someone autistic. :roll:

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 09:53 PM

Holy shit he thinks Wilt would average the same MPG today? He's quite possibly the stupidest poster on the board.

No coach in today's league is playing his star player even 40 mpg, coaches are way too cautious about injuries and are bigger believers in resting nowadays. Last time a player averaged 40 MPG was over a decade ago.

Full Court

08-30-2022, 09:54 PM

No coach in today's league is playing his star player even 40 mpg, coaches are way too cautious about injuries and are bigger believers in resting nowadays. Last time a player averaged 40 MPG was over a decade ago.

And Wilt Chamberlain is dead. We're talking about hypotheticals here. And in my hypothetical scenario, Wilt's hypothetical coach recognizes that he's unstoppable and keeps him on the floor longer than average.

We're not trying to build rockets here.

Besides, how is he going to pad stats from the bench??? :lol

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 09:59 PM

Pace is slower, but defense is a TON looser. So he'd plausibly have a much higher field goal %, which would make up for the slower pace.

Funny, this guy right here watched tons of 60's basketball and he shows that the refs didn't allow any physical contact and the whistles were blowing like crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPXSqOhykg

19:10 mark

Look at the "loose" defense at 19:37 :roll:

RRR3

08-30-2022, 10:02 PM

1987_Lakers

08-30-2022, 10:04 PM

And Wilt Chamberlain is dead. We're talking about hypotheticals here. And in my hypothetical scenario, Wilt's hypothetical coach recognizes that he's unstoppable and keeps him on the floor longer than average.
l

A smart coach would see these numbers and trade him for LeBron.

Lakers offense slightly regressed when they added Wilt.
101.7 ORTG without Wilt in '68
98.5 ORTG with Wilt in '69

Sixers offense with and without Wilt...
98.1 ORTG with Wilt in '68
98.1 ORTG without Wilt in '69.

No drop off whatsoever.

:roll:

1987_Lakers

08-31-2022, 09:18 AM

Im actually surprised full court hasn't responded to the video I posted. I'm starting to see if you actually discuss basketball with him, he really doesn't know much and tends to go away when you back up your claims with facts.

He will respond right away if there are childish insults involved though. :lol

RRR3

08-31-2022, 09:23 AM

Bankaii

08-31-2022, 09:52 AM

This dude makes his first non-Lebron post (still managed to make this thread about him lol) and gets absolutely slaughtered by 1987. Stick to trolling:oldlol:

1987_Lakers

08-31-2022, 09:54 AM

This dude makes his first non-Lebron post (still managed to make this thread about him lol) and gets absolutely slaughtered by 1987. Stick to trolling:oldlol:

:pimp:

Full Court

08-31-2022, 04:52 PM

His response...

^Yep. Confirmed triggered Bronie. :lol

Full Court

08-31-2022, 04:54 PM

Funny, this guy right here watched tons of 60's basketball and he shows that the refs didn't allow any physical contact and the whistles were blowing like crazy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IPXSqOhykg

19:10 mark

Look at the "loose" defense at 19:37 :roll:

Surely you don't think a sample size of a few cherry picked plays are representative of an era, do you? If you do, I'll be happy to post some videos of plays from that era that show tight defense. Lol.

But for the sake of discussion, let's assume you're right for a second. Who in today's game do you see effectively defending against Wilt?

Full Court

08-31-2022, 04:56 PM

A smart coach would see these numbers and trade him for LeBron.

Lakers offense slightly regressed when they added Wilt.
101.7 ORTG without Wilt in '68
98.5 ORTG with Wilt in '69

Sixers offense with and without Wilt...
98.1 ORTG with Wilt in '68
98.1 ORTG without Wilt in '69.

No drop off whatsoever.

:roll:

A SMART coach would see that Wilt can perform on both ends of the court, while Bronie hasn't played good D in years. You'd be out of your mind to want Bronie on your team over Wilt.

1987_Lakers

08-31-2022, 05:03 PM

A SMART coach would see that Wilt can perform on both ends of the court, while Bronie hasn't played good D in years. You'd be out of your mind to want Bronie on your team over Wilt.

Too bad even your hero Skip Bayless ranks Bron ahead of Wilt. :oldlol:

1987_Lakers

08-31-2022, 05:08 PM

Surely you don't think a sample size of a few cherry picked plays are representative of an era, do you? If you do, I'll be happy to post some videos of plays from that era that show tight defense. Lol.

But for the sake of discussion, let's assume you're right for a second. Who in today's game do you see effectively defending against Wilt?

Cherry picked sample size? You do know the guy who posted that vid spends hours watching tape from every big name player from every era right?

Even if you want to ignore his vid, there is a different guy who watched every game from every decade and came to a similar conclusion, refs were super whistle happy when he watched a game from the 60s.

As for your last question, hard to say. Almost impossible to answer that question since Wilt played 60 years ago, but from the tape I've seen he seems super athletic which is obviously a plus, but his post moves do seem a bit awkward, someone like Kareem had a more refined post game.

Full Court

08-31-2022, 06:31 PM

Cherry picked sample size? You do know the guy who posted that vid spends hours watching tape from every big name player from every era right?

Even if you want to ignore his vid, there is a different guy who watched every game from every decade and came to a similar conclusion, refs were super whistle happy when he watched a game from the 60s.

As for your last question, hard to say. Almost impossible to answer that question since Wilt played 60 years ago, but from the tape I've seen he seems super athletic which is obviously a plus, but his post moves do seem a bit awkward, someone like Kareem had a more refined post game.

I don't disagree that Kareem had a more refined game, but Chamberlain's awkward looking moves were obvious effective. We got to see Wilt and Kareem match up head to head. I don't see many of the current centers stopping Kareem either.