Actual proof that 16' Wade > 94' Pippen

[3ba11]

.
Clutch Points (last 5 within 5) for 2016 2nd Round:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-01-2022/-5mtpL.gif

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&PerMode=TotalsMode=Totals



Clutch Points for 1994 2nd Round:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/jbCxdB.gif


Pippen also amazingly had zero clutch points for the entire 98' 2nd Round (here (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=2&PerMode=Totals))



The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF without Lebron just like 94' Bulls without MJ


Playoffs

16' WADE'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%


^^™ the difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber

Wade has far superior scoring, efficiency, and clutch, while also having better apg and bpg and FMVP.. He would've had 2 FMVP but Lebron choked in 2011 after Wade led the team in scoring for those playoffs

[Axe]

1-9

[zeerghit]

no playground stories today?

[3ba11]

1-9


Thread Cliffs

Lebron fans thought Wade sucked from 13-16' because he had fallen to Pippen-caliber production, aka 20/5/5

And the old version of Wade was still superior to Pippen because of clutch (above) and he was also a near-equal scoring partner to Lebron in the 13' Finals, so Lebron never defeated maximum defensive attention (never carried scoring load in Finals).

[coastalmarker99]

94 Pippen was a complete beast.


His impact was immense as led his team in a lot of stats.



Also, the Bulls were 4-6 (33-win pace) without him--and that was with them facing a soft schedule during that time.


They went 51-21 with him (58-win pace). Their net offensive rating was +2.2 with him (8th); -2.6 without him (21st).

[3ba11]

94 Pippen was .

Their net offensive rating was +2.2 with him (8th); -2.6 without him (21st).





^^^ Pedestrian for a 1st option and Pippen was worst-ever in the playoffs as the OP shows.. Wade was top tier in the clutch and on the Curry or Kawh level, while Pippen was literally a nothing role player in the 4th that couldn't get his own shot..

So it's night and day between Wade and Pippen.. Wade is superior in everything (scoring, efficiency, assists, PER, BPM, WS/48, etc).. It isn't even close.

Furthermore, the 3-peat system, chemistry and belief won 55 games, not the ordinary talent.

We know this because Pippen was borderline lottery in 95' with horrific numbers before Jordan returned to restore 3-peat caliber - Pippen literally destroyed a dynasty in less than 18 months and begged MJ to return like Draymond begging KD

[SATAN]

no playground stories today?

:lol

He's sitting at home furious about Pippen being a great basketball player that practically carried his guy to 6 championships. Feverishly looking at basketball reference in desperation. So insanely angry that veins are popping out of his neck. About to explode with rage:

https://i.imgflip.com/2/w2woj.jpg

:facepalm

[SATAN]

Also 1-9

[SouBeachTalents]

OP always whines about dumb fans, when he’s the one constantly making astoundingly retarded threads like this. Always makes it about ppg like a dumb casual would, cherry picks irrelevant stats like this. Nobody who’s knowledgeable about basketball would ever make this argument, though I think sadly he just does it for the attention these days. Fakkit :lol

[8Ball]

Still waiting on the proof? Where is the proof?

[ShawkFactory]

Wow this might be one of the biggest cherry-picks I’ve seen. At 6:22 AM?

I could see OP taking adderall and taking the entire night to scheme up ways to discredit Pippen.

[8Ball]

Wow this might be one of the biggest cherry-picks I’ve seen. At 6:22 AM?

I could see OP taking adderall and taking the entire night to scheme up ways to discredit Pippen.

Ever since HoopsNY (a Jordan fan) castrated 3ball in that other thread, 3ball hasn't been the same. :lol

[3ba11]

Always makes it about ppg





Because that's the help that everyone in history needed... :hammerhead:

Everyone in history that won multiple rings needed juggernaut scoring help and teammates that could achieve elite ppg

Except Jordan... Only Jordan won a bunch of rings with with hustlers/defenders and no elite scoring help

It's easier for GM's to build a team of hustlers and defenders than getting expensive star scorers, but only MJ allowed a GM to build a team this way (with cheaper defenders instead of expensive star scorers)






Always makes it about ppg





Wade was better at scoring, efficiency, assists, blocks, clutch, PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48 and FMVP






Always makes it about ppg





Playoffs

16' WADE'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' PIPPEN.... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%


The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF without Lebron just like 94' Bulls without MJ

The difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does, while Pippen drove the Bulls downward and was borderline lottery in 95' before MJ restored 3-peat caliber

Wade has far superior scoring, efficiency, and clutch, while also having better apg and bpg and FMVP.. He would've had 2 FMVP but Lebron choked in 2011 after Wade led the team in scoring for those playoffs

[ShawkFactory]

The difference is that Wade was building the Heat like a real 1st option does

He signed with the Bulls just weeks after this happened.

Also can someone please post the playoff advanced number of 90 Pippen and 09 Mo Williams?

[Kblaze8855]

This is very very close to being too stupid for me to pretend I’m not supposed to be moderating this place. We are never clear on where the line is between fun trolling and just being stupid….but this is somewhere around there. I only clicked this because I assumed even your joyless hate fueled ass would have to inject some humor into such a ridiculous premise but no. You wrote that bullshit like you’re dead serious and expect someone to talk to you about it seriously.

I’m obviously not stopping you at the moment I just thought you would benefit from knowing.

[ShawkFactory]

This is very very close to being too stupid for me to pretend I’m not supposed to be moderating this place. We are never clear on where the line is between fun trolling and just being stupid….but this is somewhere around there. I only clicked this because I assumed even your joyless hate fueled ass would have to inject some humor into such a ridiculous premise but no. You wrote that bullshit like you’re dead serious and expect someone to talk to you about it seriously.

I’m obviously not stopping you at the moment I just thought you would benefit from knowing.

Cue the "you're just mad because you can't refute anything I said"

[Kblaze8855]

Cue the "you're just mad because you can't refute anything I said"

One thing I wonder. Regardless of the subject matter or who in particular is saying it has anyone here actually read an argument they thought was so sound they simply couldn’t frame a response? No right? Yet that is so often the go to when nobody wants to talk about some bullshit and waste an afternoon.

I know my way around building a pretty tough argument but I’m still well aware that many if not most of the time somebody just changes the subject or criticizes me personally and goes about their day its because they just want to go grab something out of the refrigerator and watch TV till the kid comes home from school.

Do we not allow for people to just not wanna make the whole afternoon a fight over Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels being a better duo than Marion and Diaw or something? Do we not accept that people just wanna do something else…but also let us know we’re being ****ing stupid?

[StrongLurk]

Wow this might be one of the biggest cherry-picks I’ve seen. At 6:22 AM?

I could see OP taking adderall and taking the entire night to scheme up ways to discredit Pippen.

Isn't he West Coast? So he posted this at 3:22am :lol

[ShawkFactory]

One thing I wonder. Regardless of the subject matter or who in particular is saying it has anyone here actually read an argument they thought was so sound they simply couldn’t frame a response? No right? Yet that is so often the go to when nobody wants to talk about some bullshit and waste an afternoon.

I know my way around building a pretty tough argument but I’m still well aware that many if not most of the time somebody just changes the subject or criticizes me personally and goes about their day its because they just want to go grab something out of the refrigerator and watch TV till the kid comes home from school.

Do we not allow for people to just not wanna make the whole afternoon a fight over Josh Howard and Marquis Daniels being a better duo than Marion and Diaw or something? Do we not accept that people just wanna do something else…but also let us know we’re being ****ing stupid?

I think it’s different when you’re actually formulating tough and legitimate arguments. In that case if someone doesn’t respond I could potentially see feeling like you got em. Even though it’s not the case most of the time.

But when there are bullshit arguments like the one in this thread then the “you can’t refute me” becomes “I want you to waste your time responding”.

Unless 3ball thinks that this is actually a good argument but that’s truly hard to believe.

[Sulico]

Thaere is no way in hell 16 feet Wade is better than 94 feet Pippen.

[JohnMax]

3ball is trying to discredit Pippen to elevate Jordan. His hero Skip Bayless does the same thing.

https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1260596146868609025

[Axe]

no playground stories today?
:oldlol:

[Axe]

OP always whines about dumb fans, when he’s the one constantly making astoundingly retarded threads like this. Always makes it about ppg like a dumb casual would, cherry picks irrelevant stats like this. Nobody who’s knowledgeable about basketball would ever make this argument, though I think sadly he just does it for the attention these days. Fakkit :lol
True, op's delusional disciples are big fagg0ts too.

[3ba11]

Wow this might be one of the biggest cherry-picks I’ve seen.





A fossil version of Wade versus peak Pippen should benefit Pippen... :hammerhead:

You act like there's some dominant Pippen series that I'm omitting... You can scour Pippen's entire career - he never played materially-different from an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber, which is why a fossil version of Wade matched peak Pippen's production.. And Wade predictably destroyed him in clutch production as well..

Pippen was simply inflated by the winning spotlight and association with Jordan.. When Curry wins again in 2023, you'll see Wiggins get picked for the latest Dream Team and inflated just like 92' Pippen.. Yet everyone was saying Wiggins was horrific in Minnesota just like Pippen was horrific in Houston and outside the dynasty chemistry that he grew up in..

It's interesting because Wiggins was actually an 18-24 ppg scorer outside of the Warriors' dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle

[3ba11]

He signed with the Bulls just weeks after this happened.





And???... Wade built them back to Eastern contenders and then went to pick up that bag

Otoh, Pippen destroyed a 3-peat dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months






Also can someone please post the playoff advanced number of 90 Pippen and 09 Mo Williams?





09' Cavs'..... #3 defense... 18 on 38% from Mo... lost to #4 SRS Magic (2 all-stars)
89' Bulls... #11 defense... 15 on 40% from Pip... defeat #1 SRS Cavs' (3 all-stars)
90' Bulls... #19 defense... 16 on 42% from Pip... 7 games w/ dynasty Pistons


^^^ the goat always did more with less on both sides of the ball

:confusedshrug:

#factsgonnafacts.






Also can someone please post the playoff advanced number of 90 Pippen and 09 Mo Williams?





Jordan had similar playoff success in 89', so we can look at 89' Pippen - he averaged 15 on 40% as Jordan defeated the #1 SRS team.. Otoh, Lebron never defeated a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

Ultimately, Lebron lacks elite jumpshooting skill, while also lacking brand of ball and efficiency at carry-job volumes, so he can't have carry-jobs against good teams and needs juggernaut scorers at sidekick.

[ShawkFactory]

And???... Wade built them back to Eastern contenders

:oldlol:

You're proving our point.

[3ba11]

:oldlol:

You're proving our point.





Lebron left the Heat in shambles after record blowout loss, while injuries to Wade and Bosh caused lottery in 2015 - so Wade's near-run to the ECF in 2016 was infact a decent rebuild to meaningful status in the conference.

Wade was building the team like a 1st option is supposed to, while Pippen destroyed a dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron left the Heat in shambles after record blowout loss, while injuries to Wade and Bosh caused lottery in 2015 - so Wade's near-run to the ECF in 2016 was infact a decent rebuild to meaningful status in the conference.

Wade was building the team like a 1st option is supposed to, while Pippen destroyed a dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months.

You’re welcome.

[Round Mound]

As a scorer yes. As a defender, passer-play maker and rebounder nope

[nayte]

Wow this might be one of the biggest cherry-picks I’ve seen. At 6:22 AM?

I could see OP taking adderall and taking the entire night to scheme up ways to discredit Pippen.

Haha most definitely. To get to that is just...well 3ballesk

[light]

The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF without Lebron just like 94' Bulls without MJ

Here's the difference:

The Bulls didn't lose a step without Jordan and won 55 games in their first year without him and they remained a playoff team and a contender all the way up until 1998.

On the other hand, the Heat immediately lost a step and stumbled without LeBron, only winning 37 games and missing the playoffs in their first season without him, forcing them to regroup and reconsider.

That's besides another important thing:

Pippen was considered the best perimeter player and best all-around player in the NBA in 1994 and many people considered him the best overall player in the league in 1994. Pippen made 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defensive in 1994.

On the other hand ESPN's esteemed panel of voters for their NBARank had Dwyane Wade ranked 40th after his 2016 season so the idea that 2016 Wade was anywhere near as awesome as 1994 Pippen is absolutely ridiculous.

[nayte]

Didn't they lose Bosh that year or am I wrong?
Or was it the next year

[3ba11]

Here's the difference:

The Bulls didn't lose a step without Jordan and won 55 games in their first year without him and they remained a playoff team and a contender all the way up until 1998.

On the other hand, the Heat immediately lost a step and stumbled without LeBron, only winning 37 games and missing the playoffs in their first season without him, forcing them to regroup and reconsider.

That's besides another important thing:

Pippen was considered the best perimeter player and best all-around player in the NBA in 1994 and many people considered him the best overall player in the league in 1994. Pippen made 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defensive in 1994.

On the other hand ESPN's esteemed panel of voters for their NBARank had Dwyane Wade ranked 40th after his 2016 season so the idea that 2016 Wade was anywhere near as awesome as 1994 Pippen is absolutely ridiculous.


No, the Bulls' 3-peat system and pride yielded a 1-hit wonder like the 15' Hawks, who were similarly exposed in the playoffs and following year as 1-hit frauds

The 95' Bulls were borderline lottery before MJ returned to restore them to 3-peat status..

So Pippen destroyed a dynasty to borderline lottery in less than 18 months - aka the Bulls' fell off a cliff without MJ..

Otoh, the 14' Heat weren't falling from 3-peat status - they were already garbage and equivalent to a 1st Round Western team.. And the 15' Heat missed the playoffs by 1/2 game because Wade/Bosh missed 40 games - that's why it's significant that Wade immediately rebuilt them into an Eastern contender in 16', while Pippen had the aforementioned downward trajectory

[3ba11]

As a scorer yes. As a defender, passer-play maker and rebounder nope





^^^ juggernaut scoring help is what everyone in history needed, except Jordan

Players that need a lot of scoring help need the most star-help - they need a bunch of perennial all-stars around them and all-time producers like Kareem, Wade, or AD..

Otoh, players that can carry the scoring load like Curry or MJ can win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Pippen or Klay.. It's easier for GM's to build a team of hustlers and defenders but this requires a 1st option that can carry the scoring load like MJ or Curry.






As a defender, passer-play maker and rebounder nope





Career APG

Westbrook..... 8.6
Rondo............ 8.0
Kyrie.............. 5.7
Wade............. 5.4
Jordan........... 5.3
Pippen........... 5.2


^^^ Pippen is the only guy that couldn't create his own shot or break guys down off-the-dribble, so he averaged the least assists and is the only guy incapable of getting elite assist levels (8+)..

Pippen was literally a nothing role player without the dynasty chemistry and system that he grew up in (triangle... system player).

[1987_Lakers]

1-9