Donovan Mitchell traded to Cavs megathread

[Im so nba'd out]

For 3 unprotected 1st round picks, Colin sexton, Lauri markkanen, and 2 pick swaps
https://i.postimg.cc/cHP4WY49/4-C7-A440-C-2015-45-C0-B22-B-0-F2-F93-F15-A12.gif

[Axe]

What a rebuild lmao

[Spurs m8]

First the Jazz absolutely fleece the Wolves, to record levels..

Now they've fleeced Cleveland too

It's amazing how stupid some NBA execs are lol
Guess they're only human...but my god :facepalm

Props to the Jazz

[Patrick Chewing]

I'm glad the Knicks did not give in. That's an insane amount of picks for a borderline Top 10 player.

[bison]

Danny Ainge gonna Danny Ainge. Doing same thing he did when he took over Boston. Just watch, Jazz will be in the finals in 4 years.

[D-Wait]

Shocked af

My first reaction: I don't like the fit next to Garland. What about the backcourt defense?

[HylianNightmare]

Cleveland really banking on right now

[RRR3]

When are those picks? Cleveland isn't going to be bad for a little while at least, so they won't necessarily be great picks. Still easily has the potential to turn out to be a total steal for the Jazz.

[Kblaze8855]

If healthy Colin can produce almost like a Donovan so getting all that on top of him is pretty nice. I guess the “If healthy” is the issue.

[FultzNationRISE]

Shocked af

My first reaction: I don't like the fit next to Garland. What about the backcourt defense?


This.

The trade for Mitchell is fine in and of itself, but the fit with Garland is sus. Who can make plays for others in that lineup? They still have Rubio I guess but unless they move Garland to the bench or another team Ricky’s not gonna matter much. Unless they wanna run the three of them together, but thats just too little size and defense on the wing.

Curious if theres some followup to this. If not, it feels weird.

[RRR3]

If healthy Colin can produce almost like a Donovan so getting all that on top of him is pretty nice. I guess the “If healthy” is the issue.
Doesn’t provide the same spacing or impact.

[AirBonner]

Ainge fleeced the fvxk out of Cleveland

[fsvr54]

I'm glad the Knicks did not give in. That's an insane amount of picks for a borderline Top 10 player.

Dude ain't even top 20. Most overrated player in the league

[Kblaze8855]

He shot 37/38/40 from 3 the last 3 healthy years so I wouldn’t say his shooting is too great an issue. He’s not Mitchell. It he’s as good as you’re gonna get with a package of picks like that thrown in.

Utah has 15 first rounders the next 7 years.

It’s either a 10 year plan or a 3 year one ending in swapping like 6 for another star. The Celtics never did it but they became contenders without it so I wouldn’t be too worried as a Jazz fan.

[FultzNationRISE]

Dude ain't even top 20. Most overrated player in the league

He is overrated, but he’s a nice upgrade over Garland.


Only problem is they still have Garland. :facepalm

[AirBonner]

He is overrated, but he’s a nice upgrade over Garland.


Only problem is they still have Garland. :facepalm
Garland would be LeBron’s 2nd option on the lakers. Crazy

[ShawkFactory]

Kind of strange since Garland is like 90% of Mitchell.

Can't hurt I guess.

[FultzNationRISE]

Garland would be LeBron’s 2nd option on the lakers. Crazy


Yup.

Bron would have the league thinking Garland’s a superstar, a la Kyrie.

[GOBB]

Garland is better than Sexton. Why didn’t Utah get him instead?

Jazz fans have nothing to cheer for. Shame. Lol

[AirBonner]

Garland is better than Sexton. Why didn’t Utah get him instead?

Jazz fans have nothing to cheer for. Shame. Lol
They will be in the finals before the sixers

[GOBB]

They will be in the finals before the sixers

Damn you’re hate is so bad it’s eating your brain. Yikes.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'm glad the Knicks did not give in. That's an insane amount of picks for a borderline Top 10 player.

top 10? :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

If healthy Colin can produce almost like a Donovan so getting all that on top of him is pretty nice. I guess the “If healthy” is the issue.

but Mitchell is top 10!

[AirBonner]

Damn you’re hate is so bad it’s eating your brain. Yikes.

Was your team in the finals last year? You trashing on another organization is hilarious. I mean I’d try to distract myself too if “the process” was reduced to a washed up Harden

[Druckenmiller]

Cleveland should have kept Sexton then they could have gone from a three big line-up that didn’t okay defense to a three little guard line up that didn’t play defense

Which reminds me, did Mitchell ever get a game of double digit rebounds or assists?

There’s been guys who can’t play a lick get 10+ rebound and 10+ assists in the same game. How do you go that many games without either?

[Xiao Yao You]

He shot 37/38/40 from 3 the last 3 healthy years so I wouldn’t say his shooting is too great an issue. He’s not Mitchell. It he’s as good as you’re gonna get with a package of picks like that thrown in.

Utah has 15 first rounders the next 7 years.

It’s either a 10 year plan or a 3 year one ending in swapping like 6 for another star. The Celtics never did it but they became contenders without it so I wouldn’t be too worried as a Jazz fan.

he's certainly comparable to Mitchell. If Sexton was playing next to Gobert he might be the all star not Mitchell. Mitchell is what the 4th best player on the Cavs now?

[dirkdiggler41]

How can people think the Cavs lost the trade? All picks are going to be late first picks as long as the Cavs don't get injured. Mitchell is 25, Jarret Allen is 24, Garland is 21 and Mobley is 21. They will just become better. The Jazz got a tiny shooting guard who does not play defense, a soft shooter who does not play defense, and a 22-year catch-and-shoot rookie with defense potential.

[Xiao Yao You]

Garland is better than Sexton. Why didn’t Utah get him instead?

Jazz fans have nothing to cheer for. Shame. Lol

Garland wasn't on the table. The Jazz wanted the unprotected picks. The rest is gravy

[Xiao Yao You]

Cleveland should have kept Sexton then they could have gone from a three big line-up that didn’t okay defense to a three little guard line up that didn’t play defense

Which reminds me, did Mitchell ever get a game of double digit rebounds or assists?

There’s been guys who can’t play a lick get 10+ rebound and 10+ assists in the same game. How do you go that many games without either?

he's been close to a triple double but that's not what you're getting from him. You're getting an inefficient gunner who doesn't play D and doesn't pass much. Have fun Cavs fans!

[GOBB]

Garland wasn't on the table. The Jazz wanted the unprotected picks. The rest is gravy

Yeah you’re banking on picks hitting. Good luck with that. The odds of hitting on better talent than Rudy and Mitchell will be tough.

[Xiao Yao You]

How can people think the Cavs lost the trade? All picks are going to be late first picks as long as the Cavs don't get injured. Mitchell is 25, Jarret Allen is 24, Garland is 21 and Mobley is 21. They will just become better. The Jazz got a tiny shooting guard who does not play defense, a soft shooter who does not play defense, and a 22-year catch-and-shoot rookie with defense potential.

Sexton is comparable to Mitchell as I said months ago to the chagrin of the trolls, he's just not on a max contract

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah you’re banking on picks hitting. Good luck with that. The odds of hitting on better talent than Rudy and Mitchell will be tough.

Ainge hits as much or more than anyone. Certainly more than anybody the Jazz have ever had in the front office. But yeah guys like Gobert don't grow on trees. Not likely they get anyone as good out of the Minnesota picks. But it's hard not to see them winning big on this trade. I wouldn't be surprised if they got multiple players as good or better than Mitchell. He's highly overrated

[AirBonner]

Jazz might get two or three Gobert’s out of this trade

[Kblaze8855]

he's certainly comparable to Mitchell. If Sexton was playing next to Gobert he might be the all star not Mitchell. Mitchell is what the 4th best player on the Cavs now?

You’re about as likely to be fair on the subject of Mitchell as 3ball on Pippen.

[Wally450]

That’s a lot for Mitchell. I don’t think Mitchell is all that great. Overrated.

[Kblaze8855]

Sexton is comparable to Mitchell as I said months ago to the chagrin of the trolls, he's just not on a max contract


And yet they had to throw in 3 first rounders, 2 pick swaps, and two players. Seems someone is rather high on him.

[NBAGOAT]

mitchell is way better than sexton. I like the move for cleveland. 3 unprotected picks is a lot but not at lvl of what gobert fetched.

[Xiao Yao You]

Jazz might get two or three Gobert’s out of this trade

3rd best player in Jazz history. Not likely

[Xiao Yao You]

And yet they had to throw in 3 first rounders, 2 pick swaps, and two players. Seems someone is rather high on him.

glad they are. Hard to see this not being considered a huge heist when all is said and done

[Xiao Yao You]

mitchell is way better than sexton. I like the move for cleveland. 3 unprotected picks is a lot but not at lvl of what gobert fetched.

Sexton is more efficient and has put up 24 a game. 2 years younger and making 18 million a year instead of the max!

[Xiao Yao You]

Adrian Wojnarowski: Utah still has coveted veteran trade asserts, including Bojan Bogdanovic, Jordan Clarkson and Mike Conley Jr. They’ll approach an Oklahoma City-esque haul of draft assets once they’re done dealing. (https://*********.com/social/) Jazz consider Markkanen, Sexton and Agbaji keepers for their rebuilding roster.

17 mins ago (https://*********.com/rumor/more-jazz-veterans-on-the-move/) – via Twitter wojespn (https://twitter.com/wojespn)



Please get rid of that bum Clarkson if nothing else!!!

[RRR3]

You’re about as likely to be fair on the subject of Mitchell as 3ball on Pippen.
:roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

And people said the Wolves paid too much:roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

And people said the Wolves paid too much:roll:

the Jazz likely lose the Gobert trade. Hard to imagine them not winning big with this one though.

[bison]

Clarkson about to have his MVP season. Gonna avg 36 ppg this season :rockon:

[Xiao Yao You]

Clarkson about to have his MVP season. Gonna avg 36 ppg this season :rockon:

would be good for the tank certainly. Be miserable to watch

[Manny98]

Jazz :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

New York had the assets package that Utah preferred and the sides seemed to be inching closer to a trade on Sunday night and into Monday, but New York balked on including Quentin Grimes into a trade with RJ Barrett to acquire Donovan Mitchell, (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell) sources said. When guard Immanuel Quickley was proposed as a replacement for Grimes in the trade, Utah wanted three unprotected first-round draft picks as part of the package — but New York would only do a third first-round pick that included Top 5 protections, sources said.

– via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell)





Those packages would’ve included two second-round picks, two pick swaps and two expiring contracts from a third team, sources said. New York would’ve moved out Evan Fournier and first-round pick to a third team to spare Utah taking on Fournier’s remaining $37 million, (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell) sources said.

– via Adrian Wojnarowski @ ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34502825/sources-cleveland-cavaliers-trade-3-first-round-picks-two-swaps-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell)




Knicks never sounded serious to me. They wanted to get rid of Randle and Fournier and keep all their young guys and most of their picks. I'd say they dodged a bullet.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Jazz likely get more value but this isn't a total Ainge screwjob. Mitchell is a likely allstar and will be for the next 5+ years of he stays healthy. Cavs should stay in the top 6 of the east for a long time so there are no likely lottery picks here even though a bad year or two could happen. A season or two ago most fans thought Mitchell was the best player in his draft class. So while this is a good rebuilding move for Utah I'm not laughing at Cleveland for doing it.

[post]

destruction of the jazz proceeding as anticipated

[Xiao Yao You]

Jazz likely get more value but this isn't a total Ainge screwjob. Mitchell is a likely allstar and will be for the next 5+ years of he stays healthy. Cavs should stay in the top 6 of the east for a long time so there are no likely lottery picks here even though a bad year or two could happen. A season or two ago most fans thought Mitchell was the best player in his draft class. So while this is a good rebuilding move for Utah I'm not laughing at Cleveland for doing it.

Mitchell might just be the 2nd best guard and 4th best player on his new team. How does he make the all star team? They actually got 3 former lottery picks in the deal one who is comparable to Mitchell and two years younger

[bladefd]

I'm glad the Knicks did not give in. That's an insane amount of picks for a borderline Top 10 player.

Top 10? Donovan "Chucking" Mitchell is overrated. He would not break my top 20 right now.

[ralph_i_el]

Naw, can't criticize the team that has 4 guys with serious chances of being all stars next year. This is going to be a good looking squad.

I think Mitchell is going to look a lot better on the Cavs.

[Kblaze8855]

Mitchell might just be the 2nd best guard and 4th best player on his new team. How does he make the all star team? They actually got 3 former lottery picks in the deal one who is comparable to Mitchell and two years younger

You thinking he’s the 4th best player has no bearing on the real world where he will immediately be considered the teams best barring a jump by Garland that could put them on equal footing while still less well known.

Vanvleet, Garland, and Lamelo are all less highly regarded. The conference added Dejounte and I assume Kyrie and Simmons will play but he’s right there as a likely pick considering he could comfortably take the spot of the 3 I mentioned above.

Hes an all star contender barring injury for some time.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Mitchell might just be the 2nd best guard and 4th best player on his new team. How does he make the all star team? They actually got 3 former lottery picks in the deal one who is comparable to Mitchell and two years younger

He is already a three time allstar and he is in his prime. This is a stupid question.

[Xiao Yao You]

You thinking he’s the 4th best player has no bearing on the real world where he will immediately be considered the teams best barring a jump by Garland that could put them on equal footing while still less well known.

Vanvleet, Garland, and Lamelo are all less highly regarded. The conference added Dejounte and I assume Kyrie and Simmons will play but he’s right there as a likely pick considering he could comfortably take the spot of the 3 I mentioned above.

Hes an all star contender barring injury for some time.

Allen is the closest player to Gobert in the league and Mitchell was never close to the player Gobert was. Mobley will be their best player eventually. Garland helped lead his team to the playin averaging 22 pts(46/38/89) and 9 assists. Better playmaker and more efficient than his new backcourt mate already. He has to play at least some D too while Mitchell plays none. Be tough for even one Cav guard to make it let alone two. Young, DeRozan, Harden, Van Fleet, LaVine... Mitchell certainly has the hype it takes to be an all star

[Xiao Yao You]

He is already a three time allstar and he is in his prime. This is a stupid question.

He was an all star because Gobert made them good. Without Gobert he was just another gunner on a bad team.

[El Kabong]

Jazz likely get more value but this isn't a total Ainge screwjob. Mitchell is a likely allstar and will be for the next 5+ years of he stays healthy. Cavs should stay in the top 6 of the east for a long time so there are no likely lottery picks here even though a bad year or two could happen. A season or two ago most fans thought Mitchell was the best player in his draft class. So while this is a good rebuilding move for Utah I'm not laughing at Cleveland for doing it.

Mitchell is a FA in 2026, I imagine part of the thinking was banking on Mitchell not being on the team for those 2027/2029 picks and the 2028 swap.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell is a FA in 2026, I imagine part of the thinking was banking on Mitchell not being on the team for those 2027/2029 picks and the 2028 swap.

yep. He wanted the Knicks, Nets or Heat so let's see what happens down the road. Knicks unprotected would have been better

[FultzNationRISE]

Naw, can't criticize the team that has 4 guys with serious chances of being all stars next year. This is going to be a good looking squad.

I think Mitchell is going to look a lot better on the Cavs.


All stars is about regular season stats, and popularity tho.

They might win a decent amount of games... but a Mitchell/Garland backcourt feels too small and one-dimensional to be a playoff threat IMO.

Theyre both iso players who really dont have much floor general savvy in their game. Theres likely to be a lot of “take turns chucking” between two guys who are good but not great by today’s standards. Dont forget, like, everyone scores now. So numbers dont tell the story. By eye test Mitchell and Garland are good players, but not amazing.

The team will look nice in the RS but theyll likely get worked by higher IQ squads in the playoffs. Thats just my opinion.

[Xiao Yao You]

All stars is about regular season stats, and popularity tho.

They might win a decent amount of games... but a Mitchell/Garland backcourt feels too one-dimensional to be a playoff threat IMO.

Theyre both iso players who really dont have much “floor general” savvy in their game. Theres likely to be a lot of “take turns chucking” between two guys who are good but not great by today’s standards. Dont forget, like, everyone scores now. So numbers dont tell the story. By eye test Mitchell and Garland are good players, but not amazing.

The team will look nice in the RS but theyll likely get worked by higher IQ squads in the playoffs. Thats just my opinion.

let's see how much growth Mobley makes. He's their future for sure. Garland or Mitchell will have to go eventually

[DMAVS41]

glad they are. Hard to see this not being considered a huge heist when all is said and done

Don't think so.

The expected value of those picks / players is not as valuable as Mitchell currently is. Ainge is buying potential...the fact that one of them or could be a star or superstar is what sells it on paper, but in reality a couple of them won't even be in the league a couple years after being drafted and maybe you get a solid starter and or role player.

But that is just looking at in a vacuum...the truth is the Cavs can't get a player like Mitchell in free agency and this is the only way. Just like the Wolves...this move is worth the risk imo.

[kawhileonard2]

Bet you Lebron regrets signing that extension now.

[AirBonner]

Bet you Lebron regrets signing that extension now.

I’m sure his life is better than yours

[Meticode]

Personally I'm fine with the trade. The picks are unprotected. Losing Lauri kind of sucks because it takes away that huge three seven footers in the starting lineup deal that the Cavs had working for them. Ultimately Sexton and Garland were never going to work out. Sexton was stunting Garland's growth the whole time they played together because he took the ball out of his hands majority of the time. I think Sexton had to be moved. Garland made the team overall better with his playmaking ability. I felt that Sexton didn't because he never looked to pass. He'd rather take the difficult shot. We'll see what happens...

Allen / Lopez
Mobley / Love
Okoro / Osman
Mitchell / LeVert
Garland / Rubio

...Cavaliers are almost $50 over the payroll though. Holy moly.

The two key factors minus health this year if the Cavaliers take the next step? Mitchell and Garland working together well and if Mobley can had a good sophomore year.

[nayte]

I like this trade for the Cavs. They have their core now. no need for anymore picks it's time to grow with what they got and hopefully win

[Sulico]

Wow!

Cleveland traded two busts for a star. Thats a lot of picks, but overall I think Cleveland murdered Jazz in that trade.

[FireDavidKahn]

the Jazz likely lose the Gobert trade. Hard to imagine them not winning big with this one though.

I will say that the Cavs and Mitchell are about the perfect match together though. 2 of the top defenders in the league can cover his ass

[tontoz]

I believe the Cavs wanted someone to break down the defense off the dribble which is Mitchell's strength. Defensively he has Allen/Mobely protecting the rim behind him.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He was an all star because Gobert made them good. Without Gobert he was just another gunner on a bad team.
It's like you think no one knows he averaged 26 points. The problem with self-delusion is that unlike other forms of desception you are only fooling yourself.

[Im Still Ballin]

I like it. It's a good trade.

Cleveland should be a playoff team for the next three seasons. That gives them every chance to convince Donny Mitch to resign. The Cavs might have a lifer here!

[Xiao Yao You]

Personally I'm fine with the trade. The picks are unprotected. Losing Lauri kind of sucks because it takes away that huge three seven footers in the starting lineup deal that the Cavs had working for them. Ultimately Sexton and Garland were never going to work out. Sexton was stunting Garland's growth the whole time they played together because he took the ball out of his hands majority of the time. I think Sexton had to be moved. Garland made the team overall better with his playmaking ability. I felt that Sexton didn't because he never looked to pass. He'd rather take the difficult shot. We'll see what happens...

Allen / Lopez
Mobley / Love
Okoro / Osman
Mitchell / LeVert
Garland / Rubio

...Cavaliers are almost $50 over the payroll though. Holy moly.

The two key factors minus health this year if the Cavaliers take the next step? Mitchell and Garland working together well and if Mobley can had a good sophomore year.

Mitchell isn't going to take the ball out of Garlands hands too? Mitchell is basically the same player you just described Sexton as being

[Xiao Yao You]

I will say that the Cavs and Mitchell are about the perfect match together though. 2 of the top defenders in the league can cover his ass

yeah but they will have the same problems the Jazz had with a small backcourt. If Mitchell used his frame and wingspan defensively it might work but he's allergic to D. Who's the Cavs coach?

[Xiao Yao You]

It's like you think no one knows he averaged 26 points. The problem with self-delusion is that unlike other forms of desception you are only fooling yourself.

yeah he averaged an inefficient 26 while not even showing up after the all star break. Won't play D or pass the ball so who cares! All I know is the Jazz won with Gobert on the court and lost without him. Without Mitchell they still won games. Strange how that works

[Xiao Yao You]

The Phoenix Suns have interest in trading for Utah Jazz forward Bojan Bogdanovic, Arizona Sports’ John Gambadoro reported Thursday evening (https://arizonasports.com/story/3279769/report-phoenix-suns-reached-out-to-jazz-about-f-bojan-bogdanovic/). Phoenix reportedly reached out to the Jazz about the 33-year-old following Utah’s trade of All-Star Donovan Mitchell to the Cleveland Cavaliers on Thursday. The Jazz are rebuilding after dealing Mitchell and All-Star center Rudy Gobert this offseason, but they still have tradable veteran pieces on the roster.

– via Arizona's Sports Page (https://arizonasports.com/story/3279769/report-phoenix-suns-reached-out-to-jazz-about-f-bojan-bogdanovic/)




who the **** is taking Clarkson! :(

[tontoz]

yeah he averaged an inefficient 26 while not even showing up after the all star break. Won't play D or pass the ball so who cares! All I know is the Jazz won with Gobert on the court and lost without him. Without Mitchell they still won games. Strange how that works

A TS of 57.2% isn't inefficient for a guard. His efficiency this past season was the same as Jaylen Brown and Devin Booker.

[Xiao Yao You]

The Jazz are, according to sources, also engaged in trade conversations around its remaining pieces, namely veterans forward Bojan Bogdanovic, guard Mike Conley and guard Jordan Clarkson (https://theathletic.com/3560814/2022/09/02/donovan-mitchell-jazz-knicks-cavaliers-trade-details/?source=nbatw).

– via Tony Jones @ The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/3560814/2022/09/02/donovan-mitchell-jazz-knicks-cavaliers-trade-details/?source=nbatw)




Get it done Danny especially that bum Clarkson!

[WhiteKyrie]

A win for Cleveland. That back court is tough.

[Xiao Yao You]

A win for Cleveland. That back court is tough.

tough not the word I'd use for Mitchell. Good luck covering for him Mobley and Allen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1-kIMDZ5c

[WhiteKyrie]

tough not the word I'd use for Mitchell. Good luck covering for him Mobley and Allen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1-kIMDZ5c
I don’t trust your basketball opinion, it’s generally always wrong. But thanks for your input, I guess

[Xiao Yao You]

I don’t trust your basketball opinion, it’s generally always wrong. But thanks for your input, I guess

when has it been wrong? I said last season Sexton was comparable to Mitchell. It's not a surprise that he's in this deal. They got another Mitchell that is two years younger for 18 million a year. Danny and I saw it

[Manny98]

Cavs might make the conference finals with Mitchell what a pickup

[Xiao Yao You]

Cavs might make the conference finals with Mitchell what a pickup

let's not get ahead of ourselves. Playoffs would be the first step.

[Manny98]

let's not get ahead of ourselves. Playoffs would be the first step.
He's never missed the playoffs and this is the best team he's played on talent wise

Finally he doesn't have to carry the offense by himself!

[RRR3]

He's never missed the playoffs and this is the best team he's played on talent wise

Finally he doesn't have to carry the offense by himself!
If Xiao wasn’t like 75 years old I’d think Mitchell stole his gf

[Xiao Yao You]

He's never missed the playoffs and this is the best team he's played on talent wise

Finally he doesn't have to carry the offense by himself!

he's never missed the playoffs because Gobert carried them there. No one carried the Cavs to the playoffs last year and Mitchell has never carried anyone. He didn't have to carry the best offense in the league last year either but that doesn't mean he won't try

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[Xiao Yao You]

Marc Berman: There will be other disgruntled fish in the sea for the Knicks – with OKC PG Shai-Gilgeous Alexander often mentioned (https://*********.com/social/)

– via Twitter NYPost_Berman (https://twitter.com/NYPost_Berman)




he makes a lot more sense with Brunson anyway

[Spuddywebby]

The Jazz got a tiny shooting guard who does not play defense,

That’s the same thing that the Cavs got :milton

[Xiao Yao You]

That’s the same thing that the Cavs got :milton

The difference being two years and about 60 million dollars! :cheers:

[Manny98]

he's never missed the playoffs because Gobert carried them there. No one carried the Cavs to the playoffs last year and Mitchell has never carried anyone. He didn't have to carry the best offense in the league last year either but that doesn't mean he won't try
Gobert didn't carry shit.

Mitchell averaged 26 and 5 assists on a team where no one else got close to 20 so Mitchell carried the offense

Jarrett Allen is comparable to Gobert plus Mobley and Garland and Kevin Love coming off the bench

Cavs are loaded, Mitchell has never had this amount of talent surrounding him

They're going to make some noise this upcoming year

[Manny98]

If Xiao wasn’t like 75 years old I’d think Mitchell stole his gf

He's not even on his team yet is still irrationally hating on him like a psychopath

[jayfan]

This.

The trade for Mitchell is fine in and of itself, but the fit with Garland is sus. Who can make plays for others in that lineup? They still have Rubio I guess but unless they move Garland to the bench or another team Ricky’s not gonna matter much. Unless they wanna run the three of them together, but thats just too little size and defense on the wing.

Curious if theres some followup to this. If not, it feels weird.

I feel like this post has to be from last off-season, before Garland went crazy and became THE guy for the Cavs.

Move him to the bench? Or to another team? ....What?

Garland established himself as the bona fide leader, play-maker, PG of the team last year. Think Ja light. He's the last guy going anywhere.

Rubio was 6th man last year, and did a great job. He'll do the same when he comes back from injury, but that won't be til December, maybe.

[GrayGoat]

Is xiao a jazz fan or a wolves fan?

[WhiteKyrie]

when has it been wrong? I said last season Sexton was comparable to Mitchell. It's not a surprise that he's in this deal. They got another Mitchell that is two years younger for 18 million a year. Danny and I saw it

Your basketball opinion has always been horrifically atrocious. You’re extraordinarily out of touch, and just don’t understand the game all that well. Plus you’re too close to the situation, and lack clarity being you’re a massive Utah Jazz Stan.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert didn't carry shit.

Mitchell averaged 26 and 5 assists on a team where no one else got close to 20 so Mitchell carried the offense

Jarrett Allen is comparable to Gobert plus Mobley and Garland and Kevin Love coming off the bench

Cavs are loaded, Mitchell has never had this amount of talent surrounding him

They're going to make some noise this upcoming year

he carried the offense like Rubio did come the playoffs unfortunately. Allen is the closest thing to Gobert but is still no where near him as a defender, rebounder, or much else. Garland and Mitchell are too small. Cavs certainly have talent but no one as good as Gobert until Mobley fully develops so to say they have more talent around Mitchell is a stretch. Will the coach make Mitchell accountable unlike COTY will be the big question there

[Xiao Yao You]

I feel like this post has to be from last off-season, before Garland went crazy and became THE guy for the Cavs.

Move him to the bench? Or to another team? ....What?

Garland established himself as the bona fide leader, play-maker, PG of the team last year. Think Ja light. He's the last guy going anywhere.

Rubio was 6th man last year, and did a great job. He'll do the same when he comes back from injury, but that won't be til December, maybe.

Garland or Mitchell will be gone eventually. Rubio belongs on the bench

[Xiao Yao You]

Your basketball opinion has always been horrifically atrocious. You’re extraordinarily out of touch, and just don’t understand the game all that well. Plus you’re too close to the situation, and lack clarity being you’re a massive Utah Jazz Stan.

I seem to one of the few here that actually does understand the game. On ISH it's all about scoring, triple doubles and hype not the things that actually win ball games. When have I been a massive Jazz stan?

[jayfan]

let's see how much growth Mobley makes. He's their future for sure. Garland or Mitchell will have to go eventually

Serious question for you, Xiao. Your bias against him aside, Do you think Mitchell will be able/willing to conform his game and play within the Cavs' offensive scheme? Lots of movement and two-man game with Mobley and Allen. And Garland is the point man. Will this hurt Mitchell's feelings? Or will he willingly blend in?

[Xiao Yao You]

Serious question for you, Xiao. Your bias against him aside, Do you think Mitchell will be able/willing to conform his game and play within the Cavs' offensive scheme? Lots of movement and two-man game with Mobley and Allen. And Garland is the point man. Will this hurt Mitchell's feelings? Or will he willingly blend in?

Just go watch some Jazz. With Mitchell and Clarkson off the floor they moved the ball more than anyone. With them in the game it was all about the iso and everyone else standing around watching. Conley was a lot more willing to spot up off the ball than Garland will be I imagine. The Jazz ideally would have been built around a two man game of Mitchell and Gobert but that just isn't his thing. Mitchell/Rubio or Garland Rubio will be a better lineup even though 3rd pg Neto often out played the Matador in Utah. Can't see Garland/Mitchell lasting. Eventually one will go for a wing

[Manny98]

Just go watch some Jazz. With Mitchell and Clarkson off the floor they moved the ball more than anyone. With them in the game it was all about the iso and everyone else standing around watching. Conley was a lot more willing to spot up off the ball than Garland will be I imagine. The Jazz ideally would have been built around a two man game of Mitchell and Gobert but that just isn't his thing. Mitchell/Rubio or Garland Rubio will be a better lineup even though 3rd pg Neto often out played the Matador in Utah. Can't see Garland/Mitchell lasting. Eventually one will go for a wing

Why did they go on a four game losing streak last season when Mitchell went down

All that ball movement lead to one of the worst offenses in the NBA, couldn't beat the Rockets at home last season without Mitchell :roll:


https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360496

[RRR3]

Why did they go on a four game losing streak last season when Mitchell went down

All that ball movement lead to one of the worst offenses in the NBA, couldn't beat the Rockets at home last season without Mitchell :roll:


https://www.espn.co.uk/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360496
COTY wouldn’t let Toody unveil his deadly post game that’s why.

[Manny98]

I seem to one of the few here that actually does understand the game. On ISH it's all about scoring, triple doubles and hype not the things that actually win ball games. When have I been a massive Jazz stan?

Well 98% of the Jazz forum on this site was literally made up of just your posts :oldlol:

[FultzNationRISE]

I feel like this post has to be from last off-season, before Garland went crazy and became THE guy for the Cavs.

Move him to the bench? Or to another team? ....What?

Garland established himself as the bona fide leader, play-maker, PG of the team last year. Think Ja light. He's the last guy going anywhere.

Rubio was 6th man last year, and did a great job. He'll do the same when he comes back from injury, but that won't be til December, maybe.

If hes a good playmaker thats fine, I personally didnt see that from him during the play-ins which is the only time I watched him. During the play-ins he looked like a chucker without much court or situational awareness. Like a young, less athletic Russell Westbrook. Keep in mind “spectacular” plays are still only worth two points, so making them a few times a game really doesnt elevate guys’ value the way ESPN and shoe companies might like you to believe.

Mitchell’s the same guy basically, but probably a more polished version. He can get you points over the course of the game, but teams score 90+ points regardless of whether they have no stars or three stars. It’s little intangibles and efficiencies that make playoff differences. Not whether one guy scores 10 points in a quarter that simply could have been collectively scored by 2 or 3 other players instead.

If Garland is a much better floor general than he showed in the play in, cool. Tho it seems unlikely he just changed up his game up completely at that point.

Also Ja probably isnt a great comparison bc MEM has a better win % without him than with him.

[Kblaze8855]

. I seem to one of the few here that actually does understand the game. On ISH it's all about scoring, triple doubles and hype not the things that actually win ball games.


Meanwhile you forever talk up a guy who has won precisely nothing even while people who only score have won more with less talented teams. But of course in true delusional internet stan fashion you combat that fact with the claim that he didn’t play with talent to begin with. The need for stans to downplay the teammates of the object of their affection will always be annoying but it’s just….the way it is.

I remember Johnnysic 20 years ago talking about Pierce being better than whoever because he’s a winner and me asking him how does one use the “He wins” argument for someone who doesn’t actually win anything and he won more than Rudy in the playoffs with Antione Walker and a bunch of dues I’d laugh just typing the names of.

We have stopped so low as to go all “He does the things that win games” about a guy who plays with a couple all star level guards, 6th man of the year candidates, among the better role players in the league in Bojan and had totally different groups of talented wings and good role players and has won 3 games out of the first round in a decade.

As dumb as “He’s a winner” usually is as an argument for the love of god can we at least reserve it for people who win something and not guys who lose the round before the round before winning and doesn’t even make a good show of it?

Hes less of a winner than Carlos Boozer and hate that fact as you may there’s nothing to be done about it.

Winners must win….something. Not even a title. But you can’t become synonymous with not mattering in the playoffs. He might as well be Demar Derozan. Except of course he’s won less in the playoffs.

Dudes like Dame who essentially do nothing but score go to the wcf with CJ and 4 people I don’t think even lasted 2 more years in the league but you know what wins games….

What you’re a fan of has no more real life effectiveness than what the nine year olds on the playground love.

I can send Trae to dribble fancy and launch 30 footers and barely make and then be destroyed in the second round if I give him a couple more all stars and some good rotation guys as well.

Hell I don’t even need Trae. Cuttino Mobley might do that.

“Ineffective” guys you would call chuckers have done more with less than Rudy in every generation of nba basketball but it’s you who knows the mystic ways of winning and have spied it emanating from a guy who mysteriously doesn’t actually accomplish things that define winners. He’s good. He’s better than Roy Hibbert but worse than Nuggets Mutombo. Which makes him….Hawks Mutombo. Right down to winning 50-56 games like 3 times with 2 borderline all star guards(Mookie and Steve Smith) and a tall combo forward white guy who you didn’t realize scored 18 a game(Laettner). And that’s fine. Being slightly declined Mutombo is great but as a winner? Someone who just wills teams to victory? In the words of Eddie from Barbershop he:






https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrizzledHardtofindHoneyeater-size_restricted.gif




“Damn sure ain’t special!”



Mitchell is about to win quite a few games and then lose in the playoffs just like he did playing as one of three all stars with a really good fourth guy in Utah. And Rudy is going to Minnesota to win a bunch of games and then lose in the playoffs as one of three stars with a good fourth guy just like he did in Utah. The only thing that can prevent that is it Ant becoming elite ahead of schedule or Mobley doing the same.

Praise one and shit on the other for the years to come just like you did in the years past they will accomplish about the same thing they did together.

[Gohan]

If hes a good playmaker thats fine, I personally didnt see that from him during the play-ins which is the only time I watched him. During the play-ins he looked like a chucker without much court or situational awareness. Like a young, less athletic Russell Westbrook. Keep in mind “spectacular” plays are still only worth two points, so making them a few times a game really doesnt elevate guys’ value the way ESPN and shoe companies might like you to believe.

Mitchell’s the same guy basically, but probably a more polished version. He can get you points over the course of the game, but teams score 90+ points regardless of whether they have no stars or three stars. It’s little intangibles and efficiencies that make playoff differences. Not whether one guy scores 10 points in a quarter that simply could have been collectively scored by 2 or 3 other players instead.

If Garland is a much better floor general than he showed in the play in, cool. Tho it seems unlikely he just changed up his game up completely at that point.

Also Ja probably isnt a great comparison bc MEM has a better win % without him than with him.

Well if it worked like that then why do most of the time a superstar wins a championship since the points can be scored collectively

[FultzNationRISE]

Well if it worked like that then why do most of the time a superstar wins a championship since the points can be scored collectively


Most of the time a generational player on a good team wins the championship. Every team’s competing for the same goal, so whatever formula is best will have the most success over time, tho it may not succeed each specific time. The optimal formula here is generational player + good team.

The majority of players considered ‘superstars’ bc of highlights and high point totals have never won a title.

[Xiao Yao You]

Meanwhile you forever talk up a guy who has won precisely nothing even while people who only score have won more with less talented teams. But of course in true delusional internet stan fashion you combat that fact with the claim that he didn’t play with talent to begin with. The need for stans to downplay the teammates of the object of their affection will always be annoying but it’s just….the way it is.

I remember Johnnysic 20 years ago talking about Pierce being better than whoever because he’s a winner and me asking him how does one use the “He wins” argument for someone who doesn’t actually win anything and he won more than Rudy in the playoffs with Antione Walker and a bunch of dues I’d laugh just typing the names of.

We have stopped so low as to go all “He does the things that win games” about a guy who plays with a couple all star level guards, 6th man of the year candidates, among the better role players in the league in Bojan and had totally different groups of talented wings and good role players and has won 3 games out of the first round in a decade.

As dumb as “He’s a winner” usually is as an argument for the love of god can we at least reserve it for people who win something and not guys who lose the round before the round before winning and doesn’t even make a good show of it?

Hes less of a winner than Carlos Boozer and hate that fact as you may there’s nothing to be done about it.

Winners must win….something. Not even a title. But you can’t become synonymous with not mattering in the playoffs. He might as well be Demar Derozan. Except of course he’s won less in the playoffs.

Dudes like Dame who essentially do nothing but score go to the wcf with CJ and 4 people I don’t think even lasted 2 more years in the league but you know what wins games….

What you’re a fan of has no more real life effectiveness than what the nine year olds on the playground love.

I can send Trae to dribble fancy and launch 30 footers and barely make and then be destroyed in the second round if I give him a couple more all stars and some good rotation guys as well.

Hell I don’t even need Trae. Cuttino Mobley might do that.

“Ineffective” guys you would call chuckers have done more with less than Rudy in every generation of nba basketball but it’s you who knows the mystic ways of winning and have spied it emanating from a guy who mysteriously doesn’t actually accomplish things that define winners. He’s good. He’s better than Roy Hibbert but worse than Nuggets Mutombo. Which makes him….Hawks Mutombo. Right down to winning 50-56 games like 3 times with 2 borderline all star guards(Mookie and Steve Smith) and a tall combo forward white guy who you didn’t realize scored 18 a game(Laettner). And that’s fine. Being slightly declined Mutombo is great but as a winner? Someone who just wills teams to victory? In the words of Eddie from Barbershop he:






https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrizzledHardtofindHoneyeater-size_restricted.gif




“Damn sure ain’t special!”



Mitchell is about to win quite a few games and then lose in the playoffs just like he did playing as one of three all stars with a really good fourth guy in Utah. And Rudy is going to Minnesota to win a bunch of games and then lose in the playoffs as one of three stars with a good fourth guy just like he did in Utah. The only thing that can prevent that is it Ant becoming elite ahead of schedule or Mobley doing the same.

Praise one and shit on the other for the years to come just like you did in the years past they will accomplish about the same thing they did together.

when you win with a team trying to tank you are a winner. When that team has Exum, Burke and other guys not even in the league in your rotation you are a winner. They pulled two playoff upsets while losing as the favorite once with Conley and Mitchell hurt. He overachieved if anything. Doubt anyone else puts Boozer over Gobert. Another guy that only played one end of the court so of course ISH would love him! GS beating Dallas in the first round allowing the Jazz to make it to the finals puts Boozer over Gobert. Now there's some logic. LOL! I had Boozer's backup over him. Too bad the Jazz didn't or Gobert would have had the modern PF next to him that he never had outside of Diaw's corpse and the last legs of Joe Johnson. Talking up the Jazz PF that gets you 4 boards a game and a 6th man that is one of the worst players I've ever had the displeasure to watch says it all

[bizil]

For me, it's a move the Cavs needed to do. But LONG TERM, I think Donavan is gonna have to play with a bigger PG. OR move the PG flat out. Most of the top PG's in the league are score first as it is. Garland and Mitchell is a very small backcourt. And NEITHER is noted for defense. And Garland to me is more of score first PG. If this was peak CP3 teaming with Mitchell, it would be a much better fit for a small ass backcourt. Because CP3 was a world class defender AND a world class floor general. A lot of pressure is gonna be on Mobley and Allen on the backline. But IF ANYTHING, Garland could be another trade chip down the road if this doesn't work. But the Cavs having three All Stars in the lineup along with a future one in Mobley is a good look for them.

[Kblaze8855]

When you never win a game that matters “winner” isn’t what you are. You’re Demar Derozan. If he won a little less that is. But you just called a sixth man of the year award winner who actual NBA coaches will happily give the ball one of the worst players you ever saw so you’re either dishonest or don’t have a good grasp of what a lot of these words mean. Probably a combo.

Your evaluations obviously mean nothing to the real world where actual coaches and players contradict them daily but you go right ahead. Nobody else understands the game.

Even if your advanced understanding doesn’t seem to know what winning is. Winning and losing doesn’t determine everything but winning and losing absolutely determine if you are a winner. If you never won anything of note…you aren’t a winner.

[Xiao Yao You]

When you never win a game that matters “winner” isn’t what you are. You’re Demar Derozan. If he won a little less that is. But you just called a sixth man of the year award winner who actual NBA coaches will happily give the ball one of the worst players you ever saw so you’re either dishonest or don’t have a good grasp of what a lot of these words mean. Probably a combo.

Your evaluations obviously mean nothing to the real world where actual coaches and players contradict them daily but you go right ahead. Nobody else understands the game.

Even if your advanced understanding doesn’t seem to know what winning is. Winning and losing doesn’t determine everything but winning and losing absolutely determine if you are a winner. If you never won anything of note…you aren’t a winner.

I know exactly what Clarkson is. Not my kind of basketball. I was a pass first pg. He's hard to even watch. Be glad when the prayers, airballs and bricks are against the Jazz not for them.

If you're winning playoff series that you aren't supposed to win you are a winner. It's a team game. Only so much one guy can do. They never put the pieces around him. He never had a chance with another coach. COTM didn't make an adjustment in the past 3 playoffs. Mitchell was never a good fit with him. Hayward, Millsap, McCollum and Gobert would have told a different story than Trey Burke, Dante Exum, Clarkson and company without a doubt

[Xiao Yao You]

Jeff Zillgitt: The Lakers have some interest, I’m told, in the Jazz vets who could be traded (Mike Conley, Jordan Clarkson, Bojan Bogdanovic). (https://*********.com/social/) But the Lakers also want to preserve cap space for next summer and aren’t that interested in taking contracts beyond 2022-23. Bogdanovic on expiring.

– via Twitter JeffZillgitt (https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt)




Jeff Zilgitt: There will be some chatter about a Westbrook/first-rounder for Conley, but Conley’s deal is through 2023-24, (https://*********.com/social/) albeit partially guaranteed. Clarkson has player option for 2023-24.

– via Twitter JeffZillgitt (https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt)







Mike Singer: Have checked with numerous people today re. who might be interested in Jazz vets, and one team has come up multiple times: the Lakers (https://*********.com/social/).
– via Twitter msinger (https://twitter.com/msinger)



Now the Lakers deserve a 2nd run with Clarkson! :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

I know exactly what Clarkson is. Not my kind of basketball. I was a pass first pg. He's hard to even watch. Be glad when the prayers, airballs and bricks are against the Jazz not for them.

If you're winning playoff series that you aren't supposed to win you are a winner. It's a team game. Only so much one guy can do. They never put the pieces around him. He never had a chance with another coach. COTM didn't make an adjustment in the past 3 playoffs. Mitchell was never a good fit with him. Hayward, Millsap, McCollum and Gobert would have told a different story than Trey Burke, Dante Exum, Clarkson and company without a doubt

Precisely nothing the jazz have won with him on the team would or has made anyone be remembered a winner.

Winning isn’t the same as being good or bad.

But winning is winning.

He has done none of it worth talking about.


And you were a point guard? Know who else was? Quinn Snyder. And I suspect those years at Duke made him a much better one than you. And the 20 years coaching on every level(At duke, internationally, and the gleague on top of the nba) couldn’t have hurt.

Tell me please. What do you think you see that he didn’t?

What insight does the backup point from the 1975 Brigham City War Goats have that was unavailable to the guy who was a final four point guard, coached for 20 years, and had a staff of a dozen video scouts and assistants to provide answers to every possible question about any trackable basketball information?

Why do you think you know better? We won’t even go into you also apparently knowing the Jazz better than Jerry Sloan. I’m just wondering about the recent staff.

Why do you think they saw fit to give Clarkson the ball and not call post ups for Rudy like it’s 1982?

What we’re they missing that you caught?

[Xiao Yao You]

Precisely nothing the jazz have won with him on the team would or has made anyone be remembered a winner.

Winning isn’t the same as being good or bad.

But winning is winning.

He has done none of it worth talking about.


And you were a point guard? Know who else was? Quinn Snyder. And I suspect those years at Duke made him a much better one than you. And the 20 years coaching on every level(At duke, internationally, and the gleague on top of the nba) couldn’t have hurt.

Tell me please. What do you think you see that he didn’t?

What insight does the backup point from the 1975 Brigham City War Goats have that was unavailable to the guy who was a final four point guard, coached for 20 years, and had a staff of a dozen video scouts and assistants to provide answers to every possible question about any trackable basketball information?

Why do you think you know better? We won’t even go into you also apparently knowing the Jazz better than Jerry Sloan. I’m just wondering about the recent staff.

Why do you think they saw fit to give Clarkson the ball and not call post ups for Rudy like it’s 1982?

What we’re they missing that you caught?

Quin Snyder was better than me. He was taller too. Doesn't make him a great NBA head coach. He might be the greatest coach the Jazz have ever had but that doesn't mean you keep your job no matter what. Never said I was a better coach than than him or Sloan since I'm not a coach. Doesn't mean they should have an NBA coaching job until they decide they don't want it. You go 1st to 3rd(when divisions mattered) with two of the greatest players ever you lose your job. You do it a 2nd time with Deron and your boy Boozer you get canned. You don't make playoff adjustments for 3 straight years you lose your job. His handling or non handling of Clarkson should have gotten him fired. Unless you coach in Utah that is anyway.

[DMAVS41]

Xiao,

Just how good do you think Gobert is? How many players in the league would you currently take over him if we are talking about just this upcoming season?

[AirBonner]

If Xiao is correct about gobert than the wolves should win atleast 58 games

[Kblaze8855]

It’s Not impossible Minny could be up there. You don’t need a great individual to have a great record. Hawks, Raptors, Grizzlies(talking Gasol not ja) and other teams show that fairly often. He will obviously help the defense and they have plenty of firepower and two potential offensive superstars. Upper 50s isn’t unusual for such a team.

[AirBonner]

It’s Not impossible Minny could be up there. You don’t need a great individual to have a great record. Hawks, Raptors, Grizzlies(talking Gasol not ja) and other teams show that fairly often. He will obviously help the defense and they have plenty of firepower and two potential offensive superstars. Upper 50s isn’t unusual for such a team.
I agree on paper Jazz were maybe a 40 win team without gobert. Right around the same wins the wolves achieved this year

[Kblaze8855]

Xiao,

Just how good do you think Gobert is? How many players in the league would you currently take over him if we are talking about just this upcoming season?

I don’t think he’s ever answered such a question. Just keeps it vague to avoid acknowledging there is a top tier no human on earth would put him and therefore he isn’t elite. Closest I got to an answer on any of the jazz players was when he explained that Conley was as good as Chris Paul to avoid giving a number for where he ranked.

But of course having Chris Paul, Donovan, and Bojan with a 6th man of the year, Ingles, and Royce isn’t giving Rudy anything to work with.

Not as if like 100 people in the hall of fame worked with less for good chunks of their career.

[light]

Quin Snyder was better than me. He was taller too. Doesn't make him a great NBA head coach.

2021-22 GM Survey

Who is the best head coach in the NBA?

1. Erik Spoelstra, Miami – 55%
2. Monty Williams, Phoenix – 17%
3. Quin Snyder, Utah – 14%
4. Gregg Popovich, San Antonio – 10%
5. Mike Budenholzer, Milwaukee – 3%
> Last year: Erik Spoelstra – 46%

[Xiao Yao You]

If Xiao is correct about gobert than the wolves should win atleast 58 games

They should be aiming higher than that. Depends on how much of a leap Ant takes

[Xiao Yao You]

I agree on paper Jazz were maybe a 40 win team without gobert. Right around the same wins the wolves achieved this year

Jazz have never been close to .500 without Gobert

[Xiao Yao You]

I don’t think he’s ever answered such a question. Just keeps it vague to avoid acknowledging there is a top tier no human on earth would put him and therefore he isn’t elite. Closest I got to an answer on any of the jazz players was when he explained that Conley was as good as Chris Paul to avoid giving a number for where he ranked.

But of course having Chris Paul, Donovan, and Bojan with a 6th man of the year, Ingles, and Royce isn’t giving Rudy anything to work with.

Not as if like 100 people in the hall of fame worked with less for good chunks of their career.

if one guy is the only one defending than it isn't enough to work with

[Xiao Yao You]

2021-22 GM Survey

Who is the best head coach in the NBA?

1. Erik Spoelstra, Miami – 55%
2. Monty Williams, Phoenix – 17%
3. Quin Snyder, Utah – 14%
4. Gregg Popovich, San Antonio – 10%
5. Mike Budenholzer, Milwaukee – 3%
> Last year: Erik Spoelstra – 46%

still doesn't make him a great NBA head coach

[DMAVS41]

if one guy is the only one defending than it isn't enough to work with

Isn't enough to do what?

I'd have to look it up, but I think Gobert has won like 2 second round playoff games in his career. I mean, at some point...if he's as good as you say...there have to be some results that back it up.

I agree he hasn't had elite help, but you seem somewhat ignorant to the kind of help tons of other players, better players than Gobert, get for the majority of their careers.

I'm pretty high on Gobert...I would have liked him in Dallas...I really just am curious where you actually rank him...I think that would help clarify these debates quite a bit.

[DMAVS41]

I don’t think he’s ever answered such a question. Just keeps it vague to avoid acknowledging there is a top tier no human on earth would put him and therefore he isn’t elite. Closest I got to an answer on any of the jazz players was when he explained that Conley was as good as Chris Paul to avoid giving a number for where he ranked.

But of course having Chris Paul, Donovan, and Bojan with a 6th man of the year, Ingles, and Royce isn’t giving Rudy anything to work with.

Not as if like 100 people in the hall of fame worked with less for good chunks of their career.

I missed this.

Yea, the downplaying of certain players is reaching new levels here. First it is that Beal isn't better than KCP....and now it is that Sexton is as good as Mitchell. Like, I get the points trying to be made, but I'm hoping they don't believe what they are actually saying.

Very odd if he can't just say Gobert is the 9th best player or something. Would be so clarifying.

[RRR3]

I missed this.

Yea, the downplaying of certain players is reaching new levels here. First it is that Beal isn't better than KCP....and now it is that Sexton is as good as Mitchell. Like, I get the points trying to be made, but I'm hoping they don't believe what they are actually saying.

Very odd if he can't just say Gobert is the 9th best player or something. Would be so clarifying.
He has said Gobert is one of the best offensive players in the league and argued he was better than Jokic a couple years ago so I’m pretty sure he ranks him ridiculously highly. He won’t admit it cuz he’s a coward though.

[Xiao Yao You]

I missed this.

Yea, the downplaying of certain players is reaching new levels here. First it is that Beal isn't better than KCP....and now it is that Sexton is as good as Mitchell. Like, I get the points trying to be made, but I'm hoping they don't believe what they are actually saying.

Very odd if he can't just say Gobert is the 9th best player or something. Would be so clarifying.

no one said Sexton was better but he certainly has a chance and is making 60 million less and is two years younger. It's close enough that I'd take Sexton in a second. The worst thing about Mitchell is you got to pay him max money play one end of the floor and not pass the ball

[Xiao Yao You]

can't quit me!

[Xiao Yao You]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268515/Evan-Mobley-Ineligible-For-Rookie-Scale-Max-In-2024-After-Cavs-Traded-For-Donovan-Mitchell

[DMAVS41]

no one said Sexton was better but he certainly has a chance and is making 60 million less and is two years younger. It's close enough that I'd take Sexton in a second. The worst thing about Mitchell is you got to pay him max money play one end of the floor and not pass the ball

Mitchell has his flaws, but he also has a chance to make this Cavs team scary.

Like I said before...given the expected value of the picks the Cavs gave up, this really was a no brainer for them. Getting a player like Mitchell, flaws and all, is not something the Cavs could pass up imo.

[Xiao Yao You]

Mitchell has his flaws, but he also has a chance to make this Cavs team scary.

Like I said before...given the expected value of the picks the Cavs gave up, this really was a no brainer for them. Getting a player like Mitchell, flaws and all, is not something the Cavs could pass up imo.

makes a lot more sense for them than the Knicks who I don't think would have been very good still

[light]

Mitchell has his flaws, but he also has a chance to make this Cavs team scary.

Like I said before...given the expected value of the picks the Cavs gave up, this really was a no brainer for them. Getting a player like Mitchell, flaws and all, is not something the Cavs could pass up imo.

I just worry about Mitchell and Garland not getting along. Stepping on each other's toes. Garland is probably, already, concerned about how much Mitchell is going to eat into his stats and whether or not he can still make the All-Star team with Mitchell next to him. Mitchell will show up, shoot a lot, be an all-star, and maybe Garland is left on the outside looking in, and then it's only a matter of time before that partnership ends.

[NBAGOAT]

I just worry about Mitchell and Garland not getting along. Stepping on each other's toes. Garland is probably, already, concerned about how much Mitchell is going to eat into his stats and whether or not he can still make the All-Star team with Mitchell next to him. Mitchell will show up, shoot a lot, be an all-star, and maybe Garland is left on the outside looking in, and then it's only a matter of time before that partnership ends.

garland is enough of a playmaking guard compared to say someone like lillard, think he'll be fine not being the leading scorer. also he's coexisted with sexton who's more of a ball hog than mitchell.

[GOBB]

Was your team in the finals last year? You trashing on another organization is hilarious. I mean I’d try to distract myself too if “the process” was reduced to a washed up Harden

Oh the prize is just making finals not winning it? Whatever makes you feel better about your team bud

[Xiao Yao You]

I just worry about Mitchell and Garland not getting along. Stepping on each other's toes. Garland is probably, already, concerned about how much Mitchell is going to eat into his stats and whether or not he can still make the All-Star team with Mitchell next to him. Mitchell will show up, shoot a lot, be an all-star, and maybe Garland is left on the outside looking in, and then it's only a matter of time before that partnership ends.

What if Garland is the all star and not Mitchell?

[WhiteKyrie]

They should be aiming higher than that. Depends on how much of a leap Ant takes

:roll: :roll: :roll:

How highly do you think of this clown? You act like he’s a top five player in the league

[Xiao Yao You]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

How highly do you think of this clown? You act like he’s a top five player in the league

Ant could be

[bladefd]

Ant could be

Anthony Edwards top 5 player? Not even close yet. He would be lucky to be in the top 30, which he probably is without looking into it.

[Sportal]

Anthony Edwards top 5 player? Not even close yet. He would be lucky to be in the top 30, which he probably is without looking into it.

He said he could be, could... Can you read properly or nah? Could be... In the future, has the potential to be.

[bluechox2]

also mobley cant get a rookie max deal now that Mitchell is on the team...so hes gonna wanna get out before is extension

[Xiao Yao You]

also mobley cant get a rookie max deal now that Mitchell is on the team...so hes gonna wanna get out before is extension

He can't get it in the final season of his deal. He can still get it in the off season when he becomes a restricted free agent

[bison]

https://i.ibb.co/1RChKSS/DA560-A22-E57-C-45-AF-B358-3-F6-EF33-F66-A7.jpg

[Xiao Yao You]

https://i.ibb.co/1RChKSS/DA560-A22-E57-C-45-AF-B358-3-F6-EF33-F66-A7.jpg

hopefully Gay is on another team soon. He certainly won't be taking minutes away from their young guys

[Xiao Yao You]

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/268554/The-Cavs-Donovan-Mitchell-And-The-Risk-Of-Vibe-Disruption


In the 2022 playoffs, Donovan Mitchell played defense about as badly as an NBA player can. Dallas Mavericks guards of varying skill levels loved this, as they were able to get into the lane at will, and cause 101-level defensive breakdowns that made for easy passes and open threes. Rudy Gobert, a three-time Defensive Player of The Year, became helpless in this situation, scrambling to cover up mistakes that are too large to actually fix; as the truism goes, any defense is only as good as its weakest member. And Mitchell, with his sub-turnstile presence on the perimeter, was as weak as it gets.

someone paying attention



The best possible explanation for this memorably awful effort is also the most plausible one: Mitchell was doing it on purpose. After a season of loud rumors about the dissolution of his and Gobert’s already fraught relationship, the fifth-year All-Star appeared to be done with the all-important task of trying, in Utah. The postseason, whatever your emotional circumstances may be, is a pretty conspicuous place to give up so visibly, but Mitchell’s doing so didn’t seem to negatively impact his trade value just a few months later. The Cleveland Cavaliers, outbidding the New York Knicks, have acquired him, and added his dynamic scoring skills to arguably the best young core in the sport.



he hasn't ever attempted to play D so it was nothing new. He was awful good luck Cavs! :cheers:

[PerkinsFor3]

I really like this trade for both teams. Cavs are familiair with putting all their draft assets on the table, and basically Stepien'd themselves again with the 3 unprotected picks and 2 swaps being traded. Still, I like the risk they took, and it should be praised, unlike teams such as the Hornets who are mostly stuck in mediocracy for ages because they don't make moves, really.

For the Jazz: amazing haul. We've all talked about the picks a lot. Those are obvious assets, especially considering it might be realistic to expect Mitchell to bounce once his contract is up. I also like the players included.

Sexton signed with the Jazz on a very reasonable number. He's unproven, but he has some upside and if he's put in the right position, I very much doubt he wouldn't be able to come close to what we've seen from Mitchell. Maybe even a bit more efficient scoring?

Lauri is what he is (even though he Super Suomi'd in Eurobasket), but seems like he's a decent trading piece for some teams - I bet the Wizards like him with their weird front court build.

I'm probably most excited about Ochai Agbaji. I have the feeling he could beomce another Kendall Gill-like player. Their college numbers (although it's hard to compare #'s for players from such different eras), here's a stab at it:

Kendall Gill: 4 year college career @ Illinois, solid to great defender, 6-5 around 200 lbs. 20/5/3.5 with 2.2 stl and almost a three. 50/35/78 shooting splits.

Ochai Agbaji: 4 year college career @ Kansas, solid defender, 6-5 around 200 lbs. 19/5/1.6 with 0.9 stl and 2.6 threes. 48/41/74 shooting splits.

That type of player could be a fit on almost any good team.

Sexton, Agbaiji and then the results of future picks could jump start the Jazz rebuild really quickly. I'm curious to see if Ainge takes the Championship road (aggregate picks/young assets for stars in a trade) or the current Celtics road (build a well-balanced roster with good picks.