Did Larry Bird have the GOAT Talent?

[8Ball]

Larry Bird's career always perplexes me and amazes me at the same time.


Won MVP award 3 years in a row in the earlier 'modern' era while Jordan and Magic were playing. Nobody has won 3 MVPs in a row since Bird. I think this is probably his most greatest, insane achievement.

All nba 1st team for about 8 straight years.

Elite passer.
Great rebounder.
Elite shooter.
Elite free throw shooter.
Elite game sense.
Active defensively.


What was Larry Bird's weakness and why isn't he a top 3or top 4 GOAT? No longevity? Not enough rings?


I think Luka is kinda close to Bird, but Larry Bird has better shooting talent.

[SouBeachTalents]

Outside of 1984-87 Bird had some very pedestrian playoff runs/series for a player of his stature.

[iamgine]

His 1st MVP his main competitor was Bernard King.
His 2nd MVP his main competitor was Magic Johnson.
His 3rd MVP his main competitor was Dominique Wilkins.

[Round Mound]

GOAT Vision
GOAT B-Ball IQ
GOAT Anticipation
GOAT Team-Player
GOAT Team Defender
GOAT Stationary/Half Court Passer
GOAT Outlet Passer
GOAT Toughness
One Of The GOAT Shooters
One Of The GOAT Rebounding SFs
One Of The GOAT Passers in General
etc

Weakness: Not A Great Leaper, Not That Fast, Not A Great 1 on 1 Individual Defender etc

[John8204]

Yeah I'd rank him in the top five all-time. He didn't have a long enough career to really be in contention for #1 or #2 spots all-time his peak years were incredible. You didn't know if you were going to see globetrotter Bird making fancy passes and shooting crazy threes or disciplined Bird that would just out work everyone out there.

[TheGoatest]

Talent alone does not make a GOAT. You still have to be a physically gifted individual, which Bird was not. But talent is much more valuable than athleticism overall though.

[3ba11]

I think Bird might be the goat passer

It would be crazy to see him grow up in today's game and be a Luka-style ball-dominator that imposes spot-up roles - he would be a worse player that lacked the teammate development, fits and brand of ball to win organically

[Sulico]

I think Allen Iverson had GOAT talent.

Not enough work ethic though.

[coastalmarker99]

I am going to say that Muggsy Bogues had the Goat talent.


The amount of skill and talent that guy must have had to make it to the NBA at 5,3 and play 14 years is just remarkable.

[ralph_i_el]

The back injuries clearly robbed him of a lot of prime years.

[8Ball]

Talent alone does not make a GOAT. You still have to be a physically gifted individual, which Bird was not. But talent is much more valuable than athleticism overall though.

Correct.

He isn't the GOAT because he didn't have the elite athletic body that GOATs have.


But I think he is more naturally talented as a player vs LeBron and Jordan. He just didn't have the body that could produce the same results for as long a period.

[Axe]

Correct.

He isn't the GOAT because he didn't have the elite athletic body that GOATs have.


But I think he is more naturally talented as a player vs LeBron and Jordan. He just didn't have the body that could produce the same results for as long a period.
He was around 22 the first time he played in the league. Imagine if he did so at a younger age similar to Kong's.

[colts19]

GOAT Vision
GOAT B-Ball IQ
GOAT Anticipation
GOAT Team-Player
GOAT Team Defender
GOAT Stationary/Half Court Passer
GOAT Outlet Passer
GOAT Toughness
One Of The GOAT Shooters
One Of The GOAT Rebounding SFs
One Of The GOAT Passers in General
etc

Weakness: Not A Great Leaper, Not That Fast, Not A Great 1 on 1 Individual Defender etc

Great Post RoundMound, I think Bird was by far the most talented player ever. He just didn't have the all-time great Athletic ability that Jordan and Lebron have. I have been around and played BB all my life and when I was a young man a friend of mine said come with me to ISU's practice and see this transfer guy who will be playing for us next year. After watching him in one practice I told all of my family and friends, This guy is the greatest non-center I have ever seen. He was doing things in practice that were stunning. They chuckled but I was right.

[Bacchus]

Greatest passer of all-time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CExjzyTRxnQ

[8Ball]

Great Post RoundMound, I think Bird was by far the most talented player ever. He just didn't have the all-time great Athletic ability that Jordan and Lebron have. I have been around and played BB all my life and when I was a young man a friend of mine said come with me to ISU's practice and see this transfer guy who will be playing for us next year. After watching him in one practice I told all of my family and friends, This guy is the greatest non-center I have ever seen. He was doing things in practice that were stunning. They chuckled but I was right.

If Bird had Jordan or LeBron's body he would be the GOAT.

I watch both of them and I always felt bird had more talent.

Maybe I am wrong and nolstagic about Bird since he did not have as many dominant playoff runs as Jordan and Bron did.

Maybe athleticism is just that important to being a GOAT? But then you see Joker and Luka dominate from pure skill.

[Wally450]

GOAT trash talker also. That's gotta count for something lol

[mr4speed]

Greatest passer of all-time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CExjzyTRxnQ
Thanks for sharing this link. I always felt Bird's passing goes unnoticed and too many categorize Bird as a great shooter only. Bird had a feel for the game and court vision that was amazing. I loved his creativity with passing and ability to thread the needle through traffic, even bouncing his passes between opponents legs. I still believe if you pick any 4 other players that the guy who could raise the level of those 4 other guys the most is Bird. Bird can score, shoot, hustle, set screens, rebound, and create opportunities for the other 4 players with his passing and not be ball dominant. He motivated his teammates by example and did not scream at them. And at the end of a close game, Bird is the guy telling the coach, "get me the ball". Look at what Bird did at Indiana State. Bird played every game as if it was a must win, hated to lose and had a general dislike of his opponents. Players today from opposing teams vacation together. Bird played with a passion to win. Thanks.

[Chick Stern]

Let’s be honest - the primary reason that Bird won three straight is that the voting establishment was East coast based, hated the Lakers, couldn’t stay up late to watch Western teams, and heavily skewed towards the Celtics. Also, he was white.
That is not to say that Bird wasn’t spectacular, he was.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Greatest passer of all-time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CExjzyTRxnQ

Uh that would be Magic Johnson.

[colts19]

Magic was the best when the ball was being pushed. Bird was the best in a half-court situation.Lebron is the best at holding the ball hunting for assist.

[FilmyCogTurner]

Birds biggest weakness... I dunno pavement?

[John8204]

Let’s be honest - the primary reason that Bird won three straight is that the voting establishment was East coast based, hated the Lakers, couldn’t stay up late to watch Western teams, and heavily skewed towards the Celtics. Also, he was white.
That is not to say that Bird wasn’t spectacular, he was.

Not really Bird getting MVP's during his time was more because of the age of the other guys. Moses wasn't getting a fourth MVP with 1 ring, Kareem wasn't getting another MVP, Dr J was also to old to award him another one. Bird actually came in second for 3 straight seasons before awarded. For me the more dubious MVP's were Magic's three in four years because of Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley and John Stockton were putting up insane numbers

[mr4speed]

Great Post RoundMound, I think Bird was by far the most talented player ever. He just didn't have the all-time great Athletic ability that Jordan and Lebron have. I have been around and played BB all my life and when I was a young man a friend of mine said come with me to ISU's practice and see this transfer guy who will be playing for us next year. After watching him in one practice I told all of my family and friends, This guy is the greatest non-center I have ever seen. He was doing things in practice that were stunning. They chuckled but I was right.
Great post from you also and you were right. When Bird played it was must see TV as you never knew what you might see. Here is a link to a photo from the November 9th issue of Sports Illustrated from 1981 from page 84 that shows Bird blocking Kareem's skyhook. https://vault.si.com/vault/1981/11/09/70982#&gid=ci0258c132a001278a&pid=70982---102---image This is for those who never saw a young Bird hustle - he played with passion!

[Round Mound]

Thanks colts 19 for the compliment and as mr4speed says PRIME Bird was one of the best ever. Even passed 1988 his last somewhat healthy year...he was very impressive knowing that he had all those injuries and still was able to toy with most of the league. No player had more heart that Bird IMO.

[Champ]

Let’s be honest - the primary reason that Bird won three straight is that the voting establishment was East coast based, hated the Lakers, couldn’t stay up late to watch Western teams, and heavily skewed towards the Celtics. Also, he was white.
That is not to say that Bird wasn’t spectacular, he was.

That logic doesn't jive with what happened in '81, when he should've won it over Dr. J.

[Champ]

Outside of 1984-87 Bird had some very pedestrian playoff runs/series for a player of his stature.

This has become a bit of a myth over the years, propagated by certain Bird bashers. Had a great run during the '81 playoffs. And despite the quick physical decline post-87, he still managed to put up career playoffs numbers nearly identical to his regular season stats.

Not to mention, numerous legendary playoff moments outside of '84-'87.

[Round Mound]

That logic doesn't jive with what happened in '81, when he should've won it over Dr. J.

He wasn't shooting well yet still averaged like 15 RPG, 7 APG and like 3 SPG.

[8Ball]

This has become a bit of a myth over the years, propagated by certain Bird bashers. Had a great run during the '81 playoffs. And despite the quick physical decline post-87, he still managed to put up career playoffs numbers nearly identical to his regular season stats.

Not to mention, numerous legendary playoff moments outside of '84-'87.

To the Bird fans.

What are the great playoff runs that he has had, including wins and losses in the finals?

[colts19]

Correct.

He isn't the GOAT because he didn't have the elite athletic body that GOATs have.


But I think he is more naturally talented as a player vs LeBron and Jordan. He just didn't have the body that could produce the same results for as long a period.

I think you are a fair minded poster so I have a question for you. If you take everyones 3 year peak, how would you rank them? Based only on those 3 years.