The Great Scott Pippen out-scored opponents 2nd option in 5 of his 6 NBA finals

[AirBonner]

I thought he was the lowest producing sidekick ever. 3ball?
https://i.ibb.co/48LDH2C/E8-EDA5-EB-630-F-4952-B613-C5-B3-F1-CFE85-F.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZBrw0Sv)

[TheMan]

:rockon:

Love me some Pip

[Bacchus]

You forgot to mention that Wade averaged 26.5 points, 7.0 rebounds and 5.2 assists in 6 games against Dallas
While Lebron was outscored by a bench player

[AirBonner]

MJ didn’t sniff 50 wins without the great Scott Pippen

[3ba11]

.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif


https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/D7mDBLG/kukoc.png



1998 Playoffs 4th Quarter PPG

Kukoc...... 3.3
Pippen..... 2.9

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4



98' ECF

PIPPEN'..... 16.6 on 39%
SMITS....... 16.2 on 55%


"outscoring"..... :facepalm:

How many times did Pippen outscore opposing 2nd options outside the dynasty system (outside the triangle)?
Literally zero. He was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle because he couldn't create his own shot and needs a system to set everything up for him.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.

Furthermore, any above-average sidekick will outscore the opposing 2nd option the majority of the time, but Pippen's low peak capability (transition/hustle player) meant that he never dominated or outscored anyone by much, while also having worst-ever efficiency and clutch...

Pippen's low peak capability meant that he wasn't on the scouting report, which made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

[AirBonner]

When MJ had total control his teams ceiling was ultimately lower. The great Scott Pippen maximized MJ’s intangibles

[red1]

huge fan.


really deserves his props as a great second option. :applause:

[Full Court]

You forgot to mention that Wade averaged 26.5 points, 7.0 rebounds and 5.2 assists in 6 games against Dallas
While Lebron was outscored by a bench player

Yep. I fully acknowledge that Pippen was a better second option than Lebron.

[Johnny32]

lol jordone needed so much help. he needed the better second option, better defensive teammates, better coach, 6th man of the year bench, just to win in a post magic/bird era. pretty embarrassing.

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Then when you watch the games in full and realize Scottie's points weren't all that impactful especially in 4th quarters/crunchtime.

[AirBonner]

Then when you watch the games in full and realize Scottie's points weren't all that impactful especially in 4th quarters/crunchtime.

Pippen not impactful? MJ without Pippen? 1-9

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

The great Scottie Simppen dissapeared for long stretches in playoff series.Why am I supposed to be impressed by this?

[Axe]

The great Scottie Simppen dissapeared for long stretches in playoff series.Why am I supposed to be impressed by this?
Well you're a retarded casual. Ofc you won't understand his value to the bulls bt, doofus. :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Well you're a retarded casual. Ofc you won't understand his value to the bulls bt, doofus. :oldlol:


98' ECF

PIPPEN'..... 16.6 on 39%
SMITS....... 16.2 on 55%


"outscoring"..... :facepalm:

Any above-average sidekick will outscore the opposing 2nd option the majority of the time, but Pippen's low peak capability (transition/hustle player) meant that he never dominated or outscored anyone by much, while also having worst-ever efficiency and clutch...

Pippen's low peak capability meant that he wasn't on the scouting report, which made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

And how many times did Pippen outscore opposing 2nd options outside the dynasty system (outside the triangle)?.. Literally zero. He was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle because he couldn't create his own shot and needs a system to set everything up for him.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.

[AirBonner]

98' ECF

PIPPEN'..... 16.6 on 39%
SMITS....... 16.2 on 55%


"outscoring"..... :facepalm:

Any above-average sidekick will outscore the opposing 2nd option the majority of the time, but Pippen's low peak capability (transition/hustle player) meant that he never dominated or outscored anyone by much, while also having worst-ever efficiency and clutch...

Pippen's low peak capability meant that he wasn't on the scouting report, which made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

And how many times did Pippen outscore opposing 2nd options outside the dynasty system (outside the triangle)?.. Literally zero. He was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle because he couldn't create his own shot and needs a system to set everything up for him.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.
Now what about their defense?

[Axe]

98' ECF

PIPPEN'..... 16.6 on 39%
SMITS....... 16.2 on 55%


"outscoring"..... :facepalm:

Any above-average sidekick will outscore the opposing 2nd option the majority of the time, but Pippen's low peak capability (transition/hustle player) meant that he never dominated or outscored anyone by much, while also having worst-ever efficiency and clutch...

Pippen's low peak capability meant that he wasn't on the scouting report, which made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load)

And how many times did Pippen outscore opposing 2nd options outside the dynasty system (outside the triangle)?.. Literally zero. He was worse than Jeff Green outside the triangle because he couldn't create his own shot and needs a system to set everything up for him.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.
No pip?

[kawhileonard2]

Pippen not impactful? MJ without Pippen? 1-9

Not really. Pippen lost in round 1 with peak Hakeem and Barkley.

[3ba11]

Now what about their defense?


2nd scoring options have to score

Every 90's sidekick was infact a 1b with elite-scoring capability that took over series, except Pippen.. Only Pippen was a transition/hustle player with low peak capability (not on scouting report), so only MJ faced maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load)

So you're asking about defense but everyone in history needed elite-SCORING help... except the GOAT

[3ba11]

Not really. Pippen lost in round 1 with peak Hakeem and Barkley.


Houston had Pippen at third option, and therefore more stacked than the Bulls, who had him at 2nd option

It was telling that the 33-year old Pippen was instantly demoted to 3rd option behind 36-year Barkley and Hakeem

[3ba11]

No pip?


No garbage Pip from 88-90' and replaced by "Bad Boy Killer" Worthy = 3-peat

Then we flip Worthy for Kemp in 92' and start a couple more 3-peats

So no Pip = titles in the 80's and 9+ overall

[SouBeachTalents]

No garbage Pip from 88-90' and replaced by "Bad Boy Killer" Worthy = 3-peat

Then we flip Worthy for Kemp in 92' and start a couple more 3-peats

So no Pip = titles in the 80's and 9+ overall
No Jordan = 55 wins. Add Mitch Richmond to that '94 Bulls team they probably win the title :lol

[kawhileonard2]

No Jordan = 55 wins. Add Mitch Richmond to that '94 Bulls team they probably win the title :lol

Pippen couldn't get out of round 1 with Peak Hakeem and Barkley both of which won MVP. Pippen not winning without playing with a guy who won league mvp and dpoy.

[3ba11]

No Jordan = 55 wins. Add Mitch Richmond to that '94 Bulls team they probably win the title :lol


The Bulls had Jordan in 92' and 93' but barely beat the Knicks both years, so Mitch Richmond wouldn't be anywhere near enough.. :confusedshrug:

People ignore that the 94' ECSF was a fluke series where the Bulls were going to get swept until the Kukoc miracle made it a weird, abnormal series

And the historical record shows that the 94' Bulls had to 3-peat before they could have a fluke 55 wins built on the surprise factor and no pressure period.. They were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned..

Finally, the 15' Heat were injured but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls, while 16' Wade (fossil Wade) outplayed peak Pippen, especially in the clutch.. Wade and Curry led all players in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF

[3ba11]

The Bulls had Jordan in 92' and 93' but barely beat the Knicks both years, so Mitch Richmond wouldn't be anywhere near enough.. :confusedshrug:

People ignore that the 94' ECSF was a fluke series where the Bulls were going to get swept until the Kukoc miracle made it a weird, abnormal series

And the historical record shows that the 94' Bulls had to 3-peat before they could have a fluke 55 wins built on the surprise factor and no pressure period.. They were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned..

Finally, the 15' Heat were injured but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls, while 16' Wade (fossil Wade) outplayed peak Pippen, especially in the clutch.. Wade and Curry led all players in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF


https://media.tenor.com/wqnbvDqaGSEAAAAd/scared-brad-pitt.gif

[AirBonner]

Not only did Pippen outscore most 2nd options he did so while guarding the opposing teams first option

[kawhileonard2]

Not only did Pippen outscore most 2nd options he did so while guarding the opposing teams first option

Pippen couldn't get out of round 1 with Peak Hakeem and Barkley both of which won MVP. Pippen not winning without playing with a guy who won league mvp and dpoy.

[AirBonner]

Pippen couldn't get out of round 1 with Peak Hakeem and Barkley both of which won MVP. Pippen not winning without playing with a guy who won league mvp and dpoy.

That was Pippen with a broken back. Kawhi would have retired with that kind of pain

[kawhileonard2]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8939726/coast-coast-comparing-lebron-james-michael-jordan

Comparing LeBron to Jordan

ADANTE:

Jordan's six-game stretch in 1990 when he went for 46 points a night on 60 percent shooting, with 10 rebounds and five and a half assists per game.

Jordan remains the standard, Bryant his surrogate to provide an approximation of how intense a competitor he was, in case anyone forgot.

What seems even sillier, in retrospect, was the doubt that once existed about whether Michael could win a championship. Most folks either don't know or have forgotten, but for the early part of his career the narrative was "Jordan is too much of a ball hog to win a championship." Before he did it in 1991, no one had won a scoring title and a championship in the same year since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in 1971, so the prevailing wisdom was you couldn't do both. Michael did it six times. And he did it without an All-Star center, something else that wasn't common before he came along.

So Jordan not only changed the way we thought of him, but he changed what we considered to be the path to a championship. LeBron has the chance to do both, as well. He already has eradicated the notion that he can't win the big games. And maybe the new paradigm for a championship player will be a guy who can bring the ball upcourt, operate in the low post, score from any spot and defend multiple positions. (Yeah, good luck trying to find another one of those.)

The nagging question is why it took LeBron so long to embrace his responsibilities in crunch time.

Jordan appeared ready-made for it. He hit the NCAA championship game-winning shot as a freshman at North Carolina. In his second NBA year, he dragged that historically great 1985-86 Boston Celtics squad that won 37 more regular-season games than his Bulls into overtime by scoring 63 points in the Garden.

And what I consider a telltale stat: He never lost a playoff series when he had home-court advantage. LeBron lost with home-court advantage three years in a row. LeBron also has a losing record in the NBA Finals that he needs to rectify.

[kawhileonard2]

That was Pippen with a broken back. Kawhi would have retired with that kind of pain

He had a broke back in 1996 and 1998 as well. In 1999 he was healthy.

[Axe]

No garbage Pip from 88-90' and replaced by "Bad Boy Killer" Worthy = 3-peat

Then we flip Worthy for Kemp in 92' and start a couple more 3-peats

So no Pip = titles in the 80's and 9+ overall
No chip :pimp:

[AirBonner]

No chip :pimp:

If there is no Pip then there is no chip

[kawhileonard2]

If there is no Pip then there is no chip

Did he win league mvp, finals mvp, dpoy once or outscore the league mvp winner in the finals?

[TheMan]

lol jordone needed so much help. he needed the better second option, better defensive teammates, better coach, 6th man of the year bench, just to win in a post magic/bird era. pretty embarrassing.

Seething :roll:

Idiot take after idiotic take, it never stops!

Please love my Bronny :cry:

[TheMan]

No chip :pimp:

No Pip :pimp:

[TheGoatest]

Scoring was the weakest part of his game, yet he still ranked 3rd in scoring among perimeter players in 1993-94, the first season where he wasn't ball-and-chained to Foolish jordon's ball-hogging.
"The Great Scott Pippen was the only player who could score 5 points and still dominate the game" - Reggie Miller
The Great Scott Pippen was dominant and then dominant 3 times on top of that dominance. :rockon:

[3ba11]

the first season where he wasn't ball-and-chained to Foolish jordon's ball-hogging.






92' Pippen...... 21.0 and 7.0 apg
94' Pippen...... 22.0 and 5.6 apg


Pippen reached his career-high (capacity) alongside Jordan's expert jumpshooting and off-ball game, while Lebron's teammates like Wade, Hughes, Bosh, Love, Ingram and many more didn't play anywhere near capacity alongside his ball-dominance.

His ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, so he lacks the teammate development, fits and brand of ball to win organically.






Scoring was the weakest part of his game, yet he still ranked 3rd in scoring among perimeter players in 1993-94,





Elite scorers like Shaq, Hakeem or Barkley have peak capability of 35 ppg, while Pippen had the lowest peak capability of 22 ppg and therefore wasn't on the scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif).

And outside of the dynasty system, Pippen was FAR worse than Wiggins performed outside the Warriors' system (Minnesota Wiggins).

Btw, Pippen averaged 3 points on 20% in the 4th quarter against the 94' Knicks and Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games.. Kukoc saved Pippen in the 94' and averaged more 4th quarter points in the 96' and 98' Playoffs..

Every 90's sidekick was infact a 1b with elite scoring capability that took over series, except Pippen - Pippen is the only sidekick that was more of a transition/hustle player with low peak capability (not on scouting report), so only MJ faced maximum defensive attention at all times (carried scoring load).






1993-94, the first season where Mitch Richmond in Jordan's place could've won.





The Bulls had Jordan in 92' and 93' but barely beat the Knicks both years, so Mitch Richmond wouldn't be anywhere near enough..

People ignore that the 94' ECSF was a fluke series where the Bulls were going to get swept until the Kukoc miracle made it a weird, abnormal series

And the historical record shows that the 94' Bulls had to 3-peat before they could have a fluke 55 wins built on the surprise factor and no pressure period.. They were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned..

Finally, the 15' Heat were injured but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls, while 16' Wade (fossil Wade) outplayed peak Pippen, especially in the clutch.. Wade and Curry led all players in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF






"The Great Scott Pippen was the only player who could score 5 points and still dominate the game" - Reggie Miller





2nd scoring options need to score... :confusedshrug:

And that's what everyone in history needed - elite-scoring help - only the goat didn't need elite-scoring help

So you can pretend that scoring help isn't everything, but that's what everyone in history needed - elite scoring help - only the goat didn't need it and that's why he's the goat.

[TheGoatest]

If there is no Pip then there is no chip

No chip?
Hell, no Pip = no .500 season
Out of 5 attempts, no less. :roll:

[3ba11]

No chip?
Hell, no Pip = no .500 season
Out of 5 attempts, no less. :roll:


If biggest knock that you have on Jordan is that he lost early in his career when basically EVERYONE loses, then you don't have any legitimate criticism of Jordan... (Durant, Giannis, Curry and Lebron were lottery in their first few years)

It isn't surprising that you have no legit criticism of MJ because he had the perfect career - he never lost as the favorite and was never locked up - everyone else in history was.. he also lost the least with an all-star teammate and never lost with a good team (1 or 2 seed).

Due to MJ's perfect career, you must to resort to BS like Jordan losing early in his career like everyone does, even though young Jordan was more competitive against championship comp with 8 seeds than prime Lebron was with super-teams.

Ultimately, Jordan made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing, while Lebron needed the East all-star center and a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran, high seed.. the first time Lebron had a low seed (21'), he lost in the 1st Round.

[TheGoatest]

If biggest knock that you have on Jordan is that he lost early in his career when basically EVERYONE loses, then you don't have any legitimate criticism of Jordan... (Durant, Giannis, Curry and Lebron were lottery in their first few years)

It isn't surprising that you have no legit criticism of MJ because he had the perfect career - he never lost as the favorite and was never locked up - everyone else in history was.. he also lost the least with an all-star teammate and never lost with a good team (1 or 2 seed).

Due to MJ's perfect career, you must to resort to BS like Jordan losing early in his career like everyone does, even though young Jordan was more competitive against championship comp with 8 seeds than prime Lebron was with super-teams.

Ultimately, Jordan made the playoffs, 2nd Round and ECF with nothing, while Lebron needed the East all-star center and a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran, high seed.. the first time Lebron had a low seed (21'), he lost in the 1st Round.

If you are even remotely comparing an era where a 30-52 record = spot in the playoffs to one where 42-40 record = not enough for a playoff spot, then you don't have any legitimate brain cells inside your head.

Also,

:oldlol: @ "never lost as the favorite and was never locked up"

https://images4.imagebam.com/6d/c1/58/MEF7G82_o.png

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eX9Me1OL4lo/maxresdefault.jpg

LMAO @ 0 out of 5 .500 seasons without a teammate who had 6 out of 7 .500 season without you being a "perfect career". :roll:

Ultimately:

No Pip = no .500 season
No Pip + Rodman/Grant = no advancing past 2nd round
Not to mention requiring Phil Jackson, who won 5 more rings.

[Spurs m8]

Did he ever average 27ppg in the finals?

Or even close?

[SATAN]

If you are even remotely comparing an era where a 30-52 record = spot in the playoffs to one where 42-40 record = not enough for a playoff spot, then you don't have any legitimate brain cells inside your head.

Also,

:oldlol: @ "never lost as the favorite and was never locked up"

https://images4.imagebam.com/6d/c1/58/MEF7G82_o.png

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eX9Me1OL4lo/maxresdefault.jpg

LMAO @ 0 out of 5 .500 seasons without a teammate who had 6 out of 7 .500 season without you being a "perfect career". :roll:

Ultimately:

No Pip = no .500 season
No Pip + Rodman/Grant = no advancing past 2nd round
Not to mention requiring Phil Jackson, who won 5 more rings.

https://i0.wp.com/assets.climatecentral.org/images/uploads/news/10_21_15_Alison_GreatScott.gif

[HylianNightmare]

Then when you watch the games in full and realize Scottie's points weren't all that impactful especially in 4th quarters/crunchtime.

Wow and insightful post and a magic fan. 2 rare things on this site

[Shooter]

So if Pippen is a "trash bum" and he outscored everyone in the 90s then the 90s really was trash. Damn.

[TheMan]

3ba11 does make a good point, Goatits and all of his alts only criticism of Jordan is losing as a youngster when all great players do but it must because he's the GOAT and they know it so they have to have SOMETHING to criticize him about :lol Meanwhile their mancrush was lottery during his first years and choking in his prime with his superteam, 2011 :roll: That double standard.