When Scottie Pippen Played WITHOUT MJ He Was MVP Caliber! 1993-94 Highlights

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd2GgvXt3SM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7aWMfcDlk&fbclid=IwAR2zjpVs8E2zG2-dg16o_maS2mQweWQpNfMo66WNpgQLkXqIlwG2t1vIDmA

[Lebron23]

Scottie Pippen finished 3rd place in MVP voting in 1993-94. Also won the all star MVP during that season. Bulls over achieved in 1994.

[Gohan]

before wade played with lebron he was mvp caliber and he only made it to the first round that year.

[97 bulls]

Funny, thing. Watching these videos, it's clear Pippe. Had no problem breaking people down off the dribble.

Only a fool would say a player that is capable of being top 10 in scoring in the NBA is a bad scorer. Using small sample size playoff series where Pippen is hurt is just idiotic. Then, if he didn't play, they'd be calling him soft.

[TheGoatest]

The bottom line:

In the regular season:

1993-94 Bulls in the games The Great Scott Pippen + Horace Grant played together had a better record than the 1992-93 Bulls in the games The Great Scott Pippen + Horace Grant + Foolish jordon played together

In the playoffs:

The 1992-93 Bulls beat the 1 all-star Knicks on a questionable call(s) that went in Bulls' favor.
The 1993-94 Bulls lost to the 3 all-star Knicks on a questionable call that went in Knicks' favor... If you can call something as blatantly non-foul as this for "questionable":

https://thumbor.bigedition.com/scottie-pippen-and-hubert-davis/WsFjAkibgG_0Oop09YBnQ3mcHZE=/800x0/filters:quality(80)/granite-web-prod/7d/58/7d58a02616ae4afbb982595fefe30021.jpg

[RogueBorg]

Scottie Pippen finished 3rd place in MVP voting in 1993-94. Also won the all star MVP during that season. Bulls over achieved in 1994.

Pippen had 7 first place votes-Robinson had 24-Olajuwon had 66-It wasn't even close.
Maybe loser mentality thinks the Bulls season was a success, but when you're used to winning it all it's a failure.

4/10 fans are used to losing so often.

[97 bulls]

Pippen had 7 first place votes-Robinson had 24-Olajuwon had 66-It wasn't even close.
Maybe loser mentality thinks the Bulls season was a success, but when you're used to winning it all it's a failure.

4/10 fans are used to losing so often.

Why do you guys always go out of your way to bash Pippen?

As bad as you guys talk about Pippen, you'd think that the Bulls would've been terrible without MJ. They weren't, and in my opinion, had Pippen played all 80 games, the Bulls end up with the best or 2nd best record in the NBA. And that would've probably catapulted Scottie Pippen to be the front runner for the MVP race.

Let's talk value between the 3 players. Olajuwan and Robinson was their teams best scorer. And their best defender and defensive anchor. The same for Pippen. But Pippen also ran his team's offense. I honestly feel the only reason Pippen didn't win MVP in 94 was because he missed those 10 games.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why do you guys always go out of your way to bash Pippen?

As bad as you guys talk about Pippen, you'd think that the Bulls would've been terrible without MJ. They weren't, and in my opinion, had Pippen played all 80 games, the Bulls end up with the best or 2nd best record in the NBA. And that would've probably catapulted Scottie Pippen to be the front runner for the MVP race.

Let's talk value between the 3 players. Olajuwan and Robinson was their teams best scorer. And their best defender and defensive anchor. The same for Pippen. But Pippen also ran his team's offense. I honestly feel the only reason Pippen didn't win MVP in 94 was because he missed those 10 games.
Pippen & Grant missed 10 games each, if they each play 80 or so like you said, the Bulls probably finish with the best record in the league.

[Bacchus]

The Chicago Bulls had a record of 34-31 without Michael Jordan in 1994-95.

[Full Court]

AD and Westbrook were both MVP caliber without Lebron.

Yet without AD Bronie can't even make the playoffs. :lol

[97 bulls]

The Chicago Bulls had a record of 34-31 without Michael Jordan in 1994-95.

Correction. That record was without Jordan, Grant, Paxson, or Cartwright.

You Jordan fans are demented. And this is why you get all these "1-9" posts.

[Spurs m8]

Correction. That record was without Jordan, Grant, Paxson, or Cartwright.

You Jordan fans are demented. And this is why you get all these "1-9" posts.

Here's this fake Bulls fan again

[1987_Lakers]

Here's this fake Bulls fan again

Me an 97 Bulls go way back, we would get in heated debates well over a decade ago, mostly of him defending that Bulls team. He isn't a fake unlike yourself. "Alexa, name me a Spurs player."

[Axe]

The Chicago Bulls had a record of 34-31 without Michael Jordan in 1994-95.
55-27 and 34-31 are actually not bad records for a team who temporarily didn't have ballhog 1-9 dad killer in those seasons as their first scoring option bt. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Me an 97 Bulls go way back, we would get in heated debates well over a decade ago, mostly of him defending that Bulls team. He isn't a fake unlike yourself. "Alexa, name me a Spurs player."

Lol. Good looking out bro. I was taken aback when that troll called me a fake bulls fan because I'm defending the players on the Bulls lol. These Jordan fans are a sight to see.

[Round Mound]

Best Or 2nd Best (depends on how you feel about Grant Hill) SF of the 90's.

[Baller789]

Best Or 2nd Best (depends on how you feel about Grant Hill) SF of the 90's.

Oh Grant was definately better.

[TheMan]

Oh Grant was definately better.

Yup, it's not even a debate, Pip was the better defender but Hill was no slouch either, was as good if not better as a facilitator and much better offensively, Hill could create his own shot.

[RogueBorg]

Pippen & Grant missed 10 games each, if they each play 80 or so like you said, the Bulls probably finish with the best record in the league.

So what? They played together in the post-season and didn't even make the ECF?

I was watching a documentary about the Raiders last night. Al Davis preached to his team, the goal is not to make the playoffs or the Super Bowl, the goal was to win the whole damn thing. Anything less is a failure.

[3ba11]

.

Here's what Pippen did without MJ (historical record)



https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/cKS3B2.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-04-2022/B-6qB7.gif



The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF just like 94' Bulls:


Playoffs

16' Wade'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' Pippen..... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%




Iguodala 2009 Playoffs vs Dwight.... 21.5... 6.3... 6.7... 44.9%... lost in 6 (no kukoc miracle)

Pippen 1994 Playoffs vs Ewing......... 21.7... 7.7... 4.7... 40.5%... lost in 7 (kukoc miracle)




^^^^^^ the historical record shows that Pippen played at a Wiggins or Iggy-caliber but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status

There are zero examples of Pippen playing above a Wiggins or Iggy caliber or playing at a Hakeem/Barkley/Shaq level (MVP level)... So this thread is BS.. Pippen was never talked about as an MVP candidate in 1994 - literally never.

He was worse than Jeff Green outside the dynasty system that he grew up in (outside the triangle), so this idea that he was one of the best SF's is simply dumb - he was a SYSTEM PLAYER that couldn't create his own shot in the halfcourt - Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games and frequently outscored Pippen in the 4th quarter or clutch time, such as the entire 98' Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS).. Houston was literally amazed at how bad Pippen was (https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif)... but carry on





.

[Bacchus]

At Least Jordan won every year Pippen was a All-Star. James lost twice playing with two all-stars Bosh and Wade

[ShawkFactory]

So what? They played together in the post-season and didn't even make the ECF?

I was watching a documentary about the Raiders last night. Al Davis preached to his team, the goal is not to make the playoffs or the Super Bowl, the goal was to win the whole damn thing. Anything less is a failure.

This post is so so stupid. SO stupid.

[Bacchus]

Pippen went from winning a championship with Jordan to losing in the first round with Hakeem and Barkley

.[/QUOTE]

[3ba11]

This post is so so stupid. SO stupid.


You probably think that Mitch Richmond in Jordan's place would've beaten the Knicks in 94'

Except they barely beat the Knicks in 92' and 93' with Jordan, so Mitch wasn't nearly enough

People forget that the Kukoc miracle avoided a sweep to the Knicks - that bulls team was just a one-off regular season fluke that was severely exposed in the playoffs and 95' before MJ returned..

They had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 in a one-off fluke year based on surprise factor and no pressure period.. but they were actually a garbage team as the playoffs and 95' confirmed.

[ShawkFactory]

You probably think that Mitch Richmond in Jordan's place would've beaten the Knicks in 94'

Except they barely beat the Knicks in 92' and 93' with Jordan, so Mitch wasn't nearly enough

People forget that the Kukoc miracle avoided a sweep to the Knicks - that bulls team was just a one-off regular season fluke that was severely exposed in the playoffs and 95' before MJ returned..

They had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 in a one-off fluke year based on surprise factor and no pressure period.. but they were actually a garbage team as the playoffs and 95' confirmed.

None of this bullshit has anything to do with why his post in stupid.

[jlip]

At Least Jordan won every year Pippen was a All-Star. James lost twice playing with two all-stars Bosh and Wade

Should someone tell him?

[8Ball]

Funny, thing. Watching these videos, it's clear Pippe. Had no problem breaking people down off the dribble.

Only a fool would say a player that is capable of being top 10 in scoring in the NBA is a bad scorer. Using small sample size playoff series where Pippen is hurt is just idiotic. Then, if he didn't play, they'd be calling him soft.

Pippen would have won more all-nba 1st teams if he had a team to himself.

[97 bulls]

So what? They played together in the post-season and didn't even make the ECF?

I was watching a documentary about the Raiders last night. Al Davis preached to his team, the goal is not to make the playoffs or the Super Bowl, the goal was to win the whole damn thing. Anything less is a failure.

They did it without your God Michael Jordan

[3ba11]

They did it without your God Michael Jordan


Did what exactly - avoided getting swept via Kukoc miracle in the 2nd Round?

and have about 80 legendary chokes in the same series like the dumb foul or sitting out, and also 3 on 20% in the fourth quarter

there's zero examples of pippen playing above an iggy or wiggins-caliber in his career and he never even reached iggy-caliber outside the triangle (system player)

and the 94' Bulls had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 in a one-off fluke based on surprise factor and no pressure period.. but they were actually a garbage team as the playoffs and 95' confirmed.

[97 bulls]

.

Here's what Pippen did without MJ (historical record)



https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-21-2021/cKS3B2.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-12-2021/LCBZJA.gif

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-04-2022/B-6qB7.gif



The Heat were injured in 15' but nearly made 16' ECF just like 94' Bulls:

But the Heat replaced Lebron James with Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, and Goran Dragic. The Bulls replaced Jordan with Pete Myers. Hell I'll even give you a rookie Toni Kukoc. And why are you excusing the Heat situation with injuries? You cut Pippen no slack when he was hurt.
Playoffs


16' Wade'...... 22.3 PER.. 4.9 bpm.. 0.148 ws/48.. 0.8 vorp.. 22/6/4 on 47%
94' Pippen..... 22.8 PER.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.149 ws/48.. 0.7 vorp.. 23/8/6 on 43%




Iguodala 2009 Playoffs vs Dwight.... 21.5... 6.3... 6.7... 44.9%... lost in 6 (no kukoc miracle)

Pippen 1994 Playoffs vs Ewing......... 21.7... 7.7... 4.7... 40.5%... lost in 7 (kukoc miracle)




^^^^^^ the historical record shows that Pippen played at a Wiggins or Iggy-caliber but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status

There are zero examples of Pippen playing above a Wiggins or Iggy caliber or playing at a Hakeem/Barkley/Shaq level (MVP level)... So this thread is BS.. Pippen was never talked about as an MVP candidate in 1994 - literally never.

He was worse than Jeff Green outside the dynasty system that he grew up in (outside the triangle), so this idea that he was one of the best SF's is simply dumb - he was a SYSTEM PLAYER that couldn't create his own shot in the halfcourt - Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games and frequently outscored Pippen in the 4th quarter or clutch time, such as the entire 98' Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS).. Houston was literally amazed at how bad Pippen was (https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif)... but carry on





.

The math ain't mathing bro. Pippen was talked about as an MVP caliber player. Hell he got first place votes. Only a fool would say that Pippen is on the level of Andrew Wiggins. Even with this "winning spotlight" nonsense that you spout. Wiggins won last year. Nobody is calling him a top player of today.

Your arguments are a joke, and you troll so hard that you contradict your own logic. Like for instance, you argue that James stats are only better than MJs because of the rule changes, but then you throw that logic right out the window when it comes to comparing stats between Wade and Pippen or whoever and Pippen.

You excuse the Heats failure by saying they were injured, but you don't apply the same courtesy to Scottie Pippen.

You ignore plain facts. You say Jordan had to score so much because played with guys that couldn't score, but Jordan himself said he scored so much because he wanted to lead the league in scoring.

In fact, there's not one argument you've made that hasn't been soundly refuted over and over and over again. Many have been refuted using YOUR logic.

[Hey Yo]

A 6th round pick journeyman replaced MJ in the starting lineup and still won 55gms.

[TheGoatest]

A 6th round pick journeyman replaced MJ in the starting lineup and still won 55gms.

I can't imagine how far the 1993-94 Bulls would've gone had they had a 14.5 ppg, 13.1 rpg & 3.6 apg averaging Charles Oakley, or a 22.9 ppg on .554 averaging Orlando Woolridge instead of that journeyman.

[97 bulls]

Did what exactly - avoided getting swept via Kukoc miracle in the 2nd Round?

and have about 80 legendary chokes in the same series like the dumb foul or sitting out, and also 3 on 20% in the fourth quarter

there's zero examples of pippen playing above an iggy or wiggins-caliber in his career and he never even reached iggy-caliber outside the triangle (system player)

and the 94' Bulls had to 3-peat first before they could win 55 in a one-off fluke based on surprise factor and no pressure period.. but they were actually a garbage team as the playoffs and 95' confirmed.

That's your opinion. I've shown you respected players, coaches, and sportswriters calling Pippen a top 5 player when he played. Nobody says that about Andre Iguodala. Lol.

And yes, they didn't win in 94. But if I didn't know better, based on the way you talk about Jordan's teammates, I'd think that they were the worst team in the league when Jordan left. But the fact is they weren't. Nobody wins without their best player. The Bulls faired far better than all other greats when their best player was injured for a substantial amount of time or left the team. And the kicker is that the Bulls replacement was trash. You can't say that about any other player.

Again, you keep bring up the Heat in 15 and 16. But they actually got Allstars to replaced James. And they still could only do what the Bulls did even though the Bulls didn't get an Allstar to replace MJ. For emphasis, the Heat went out and got established NBA player to replace James. The Bulls got a guy that wasn't even in the league. And did just as well.

It's like two people running and covering the same distance, except one had to go through a swamp, barb wire fencing, and a mine field. The other in an air conditioned car on a newly paved road. The Bulls did the same with much less.

[3ba11]

Pippen was talked about as an MVP caliber player.





Literally never - he was never viewed as anywhere near Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler - these were 1st options that led their team to the Finals and Pippen wasn't anywhere near this level - anyone that was old enough in the 90's knows this.






Only a fool would say that Pippen is on the level of Andrew Wiggins.





It's obvious that Pippen is at an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber because there's zero examples of him playing better than those guys - he's 0/6 in FMVP with similar Finals averages to Wiggins (19 on 42%), except Pippen's clutch and efficiency was actually worst all-time.

Pippen never exceeded the production level of Wiggins, Middleton, Lowry, Klay, or Pau - he was never an elite-producing sidekick like Kareem, AD, Wade, Kobe, etc.

This is obvious historical fact.. The historical record also shows that Wiggins was an 18-24 ppg player outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle.





Even with this "winning spotlight" nonsense that you spout. Wiggins won last year. Nobody is calling him a top player of today.





No one said Pippen was a good player in 1991 when he won either - he wasn't even an all-star..

Pippen didn't start getting all-time recognition until it was clear that the Bulls were the heavy favorite to repeat in 92'... And you'll see that with Wiggins this year - if the Warriors look like a clear favorite to repeat, Wiggins will start to get all-world recognition (winning spotlight) and certainly a 3-peat would make him an all-time player - history like WINNERS (even if they were carried like Wiggins and Pippen).






You argue that 5James stats are only better than MJs because of the rule changes





I've never argued that Lebron's stats were better than MJ's because they aren't - MJ has better stats across the board (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, PPG, efficiency per possession, plus/minus, net rating, RAPTOR)






but then you throw the rule change logic right out the window when it comes to comparing stats between Wade and Pippen or whoever and Pippen.





I compare Pippen to his peers in the 90's... :confusedshrug:

I say that every 90's sidekick was a "1b" capable of elite scoring and taking over many series, except Pippen.. Pippen is the only sidekick that wasn't a go-to player and had low peak capability (wasn't on scouting report), so ONLY MJ was forced to defeat maximum defensive attention at all times (carry scoring load in every series)..






You excuse the Heats failure by saying they were injured, but you don't apply the same courtesy to Scottie Pippen.





The Heat were injured in 2015 but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls.. The only difference is that fossil Wade outplayed peak Pippen with near-equal stats, while having goat-level clutch stats compared to Pippen's worst ever - Wade and Curry led the NBA in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF.






You say Jordan had to score so much because played with guys that couldn't score, but Jordan himself said he scored so much because he wanted to lead the league in scoring.





We saw Pippen's peak without Jordan (22.0 and 5.6 apg) and it was less than his peak with Jordan (21.0 and 7.0 apg)

So teammates played near capacity alongside Jordan's off-ball game.

And HoopsNY's data shows that Jordan won 95% of games when he had the scoring help that Magic, Lebron or Shaq enjoys (a sidekick that averages mid or high 20's).. We always wondered how Jordan would do with Kareem or Kobe and HoopsNY's data showed that he would win literally 78-80 games a year.






In fact, there's not one argument you've made that hasn't been soundly refuted over and over and over again. Many have been refuted using YOUR logic.


You guys just deflect - you don't refute anything and get beat down on here.. That's why I keep coming back

[ShawkFactory]

You guys just deflect - you don't refute anything and get beat down on here.. That's why I keep coming back

:oldlol:

Keep doing your thing if you want but don't lie.

[3ba11]

:oldlol:

Keep doing your thing if you want but don't lie.


If i was getting taught basketball lessons on here than I would probably find another hobby..

But instead it's the other way around (even if you choose to not read or skim the lessons)

[ShawkFactory]

If i was getting taught basketball lessons on here than I would probably find another hobby..

But instead it's the other way around (even if you choose to not read or skim the lessons)

Why? You wouldn't want to learn more about basketball? Makes no sense.

But no, that isn't why you do...whatever you call this.

[3ba11]

Why? You wouldn't want to learn more about basketball? Makes no sense.

But no, that isn't why you do...whatever you call this.


If this forum was populated by Bill Russell, Jerry West and Pat Riley, then I wouldn't mind learning.

But if you guys were teaching me about basketball, then that would mean I was a complete dumbass and probably mentally-challenged (retarded).. fortunately I'm not faced with that scenario here, because I'm on the teacher side along with warriorsfan and others

[ShawkFactory]

If this forum was populated by Bill Russell, Jerry West and Pat Riley, then I wouldn't mind learning.

But if you guys were teaching me about basketball, then that would mean I was a complete dumbass and probably mentally-challenged (retarded).. fortunately I'm not faced with that scenario here, because I'm on the teacher side along with warriorsfan and others

:rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

https://flxt.tmsimg.com/assets/p14569_p_v8_ay.jpg

[97 bulls]

Literally never - he was never viewed as anywhere near Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler - these were 1st options that led their team to the Finals and Pippen wasn't anywhere near this level - anyone that was old enough in the 90's knows this.

Its like you're willfully ignorant. Youve been shown video, and quotes from Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, Dennis Rodman, John Salley, Karl Malone, Chuck Daly, saying that Pippen was a anywhere from top 5 to the 2nd best player or even the best player in the NBA.





It's obvious that Pippen is at an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber because there's zero examples of him playing better than those guys - he's 0/6 in FMVP with similar Finals averages to Wiggins (19 on 42%), except Pippen's clutch and efficiency was actually worst all-time.

Pippen never exceeded the production level of Wiggins, Middleton, Lowry, Klay, or Pau - he was never an elite-producing sidekick like Kareem, AD, Wade, Kobe, etc.

This is obvious historical fact.. The historical record also shows that Wiggins was an 18-24 ppg player outside the dynasty system, while Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle.
And again, you contradict your own logic. When Wade was 33, you called him a shell of his former self, but you don't hold Pippen to the same standard. What's more, is even though you obviously feel Wade is better, you have higher expectations to Pip. And let's not forget you compare stats between eras where you feel James has an easier time scoring because of the rules, but you most that logic when comparing Wade and Wiggins to Pippen.






No one said Pippen was a good player in 1991 when he won either - he wasn't even an all-star..

He was an Allstar in 90.


Pippen didn't start getting all-time recognition until it was clear that the Bulls were the heavy favorite to repeat in 92'... And you'll see that with Wiggins this year - if the Warriors look like a clear favorite to repeat, Wiggins will start to get all-world recognition (winning spotlight) and certainly a 3-peat would make him an all-time player - history like WINNERS (even if they were carried like Wiggins and Pippen).
Dont try to adjust youre argument now. Wiggins is an NBA Champion. Nobody is saying hes a top player in the league.





I've never argued that Lebron's stats were better than MJ's because they aren't - MJ has better stats across the board (PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP, PPG, efficiency per possession, plus/minus, net rating, RAPTOR)
Yes you did.






I compare Pippen to his peers in the 90's... :confusedshrug:
Wiggins and Wade never played in the same era as Pippen.


I say that every 90's sidekick was a "1b" capable of elite scoring and taking over many series, except Pippen.. Pippen is the only sidekick that wasn't a go-to player and had low peak capability (wasn't on scouting report), so ONLY MJ was forced to defeat maximum defensive attention at all times (carry scoring load in every series)..

How can you say Jordan was forced to score all those points when he said he did it because he wanted to leas the league in scoring? You refuse to acknowledge to reconcile this fact. Again, if Jordan is setting out to be the scoring leader, you can't say he was forced to score. He wasn't forced, he WANTED to. Fortunately for him, he had a team good enough to contribute in a myriad of ways and be a 60 win team without him.





The Heat were injured in 2015 but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls.. The only difference is that fossil Wade outplayed peak Pippen with near-equal stats, while having goat-level clutch stats compared to Pippen's worst ever - Wade and Curry led the NBA in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF.

But the Heat replaced James with Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, and Goran Dragic. The Bulls replaced Jordan with Pete Myers lol.




We saw Pippen's peak without Jordan (22.0 and 5.6 apg) and it was less than his peak with Jordan (21.0 and 7.0 apg)

So teammates played near capacity alongside Jordan's off-ball game.

And HoopsNY's data shows that Jordan won 95% of games when he had the scoring help that Magic, Lebron or Shaq enjoys (a sidekick that averages mid or high 20's).. We always wondered how Jordan would do with Kareem or Kobe and HoopsNY's data showed that he would win literally 78-80 games a year.
What Hoops showed was that Jordan didn't have to take as many shots as he did. Because the Bulls were better when the scoring was shared. But as you've been told. Jordan wanted to lead the league in scoring. So we weren't gonna see what the Bulls really could've been. But we caught a glimpse in 94.

And I find it funny that you compare stats from 20 years apart. Pippen played against the Knicks who were one of the greatest defensive teams the NBA has ever seen. The Raptors were 11th in defensive rating in 16. Lol.






You guys just deflect - you don't refute anything and get beat down on here.. That's why I keep coming back
I just refuted everything you stated. Break your fingers so you won't type this nonsense anymore.

[SATAN]

For what it's worth, more people think Pippen was a very good basketball player than Michael Jordan is the goat.

[TheMan]

A 6th round pick journeyman replaced MJ in the starting lineup and still won 55gms.

Only LeLosers focus on what a team did during the regular season...they were coming off a threepeat led by MJ, did they end winning a ring too?

Asking for a friend :lol

[97 bulls]

Only LeLosers focus on what a team did during the regular season...they were coming off a threepeat led by MJ, did they end winning a ring too?

Asking for a friend :lol
Did you expect that Bulls team to win that many games? Much less go to the playoffs?

Also, you must have Scottie Pippen in your top 10. Because he's one of the winningest players NBA history. And he has 6 Championships and 2 Olympic Gold Medals to boot.

[SATAN]

LeLosers

This guy claims to be like 40-50 years old and talks like this. :facepalm

[Axe]

For what it's worth, more people think Pippen was a very good basketball player than Michael Jordan is the goat.
:applause:

[Round Mound]

Every person that wasn't a MJ stan knows how good Pippen was. Jordan is the GOAT but Pippen is one of the best SFs ever, especially all around wise.

[3ba11]

Every person that wasn't a MJ stan knows how good Pippen was.






Bullshit

Houston hated Pippen and was shocked to see how much he sucked and whined.. This is well-documented and they traded him for nothing.

Shaq said that Pippen wasn't on scouting reports

X-Man bullied and trash-talked Pippen while dominating him

Horry said Pippen was garbage (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s))

Ultimately, we know that Pippen was finishing plays for the Rockets at half the rate of fossil Barkley - Barkley was garbage in 99'!!!... Pippen was drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the same playoff opponent 5/5 times.. He's also 0/6 in FMVP and he's the only guy that failed to reach Horry-level in the Finals over a meaningful sample size (0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals).

So there's all these objective measures that show Pippen was garbage.. He only ever played at an Iggy caliber






Jordan is the GOAT but Pippen is one of the best SFs ever, especially all around wise.





If only there was actual performance to back up your claims

55 wins isn't top 30 or one of the best SF's ever

Only the 6 rings inflates him, otherwise he was Wiggins except a worse scorer

That's what the facts show - he only has the media's inflation based on winning spotlight

[97 bulls]

Bullshit

Houston hated Pippen and was shocked to see how much he sucked and whined.. This is well-documented and they traded him for nothing.
Not true. Pippen wanted out of Houston because he didn't like the offense and Barkley wasn't committed to winning according to Pippen. Again, all this information was given to you in a previous thread.


The system that was in place in Houston was completely different than the one he was used to when playing for the Bulls. There was a lot of iso basketball, unlike the free-flowing system the Bulls had in place with the triangle offense. Hakeem and Barkley were taking most of the shots, and Pippen's main task was to get them the ball, and he wasn't so much involved in the offense as he was with the Bulls.

"I kept feeding the ball to them in the low post. That was my whole job. Which meant a lot of standing around and watching them play one-on-one. I was used to the triangle, to the ball moving from one player to the next on every possession until we found the best scoring opportunity. I felt as I were back in the late eighties, watching Michael throw up a million shots night after night.


Shaq said that Pippen wasn't on scouting reports
Shaq also called him a great player in that same quote. Lol. Didn't you say nobody felt Pippen was a great player?


X-Man bullied and trash-talked Pippen while dominating him

Horry said Pippen was garbage (here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s))

Ultimately, we know that Pippen was finishing plays for the Rockets at half the rate of fossil Barkley - Barkley was garbage in 99'!!!...
Barkley should've been. They ran the offense through him and Olajuwan. Pippen was relgated to basically being a 3pt shooter and a passer. That's why 4 of Pips 12 FGAs were 3s. And, Pippen had a higher EFG% than Barkley.


Pippen was drastically outplayed by Reggie Miller against the same playoff opponent 5/5 times.. He's also 0/6 in FMVP and he's the only guy that failed to reach Horry-level in the Finals over a meaningful sample size (0/6 in reaching Horry's gamescore from the 95' Finals).

So there's all these objective measures that show Pippen was garbage.. He only ever played at an Iggy caliber






If only there was actual performance to back up your claims

55 wins isn't top 30 or one of the best SF's ever

Only the 6 rings inflates him, otherwise he was Wiggins except a worse scorer

That's what the facts show - he only has the media's inflation based on winning spotlight

Everything else you stated is just drivel.

[MadDogg]

Pippen and this season in particular are grossly overrated. Guy lost in the second round after coming off a three-peat. Who cares? :confusedshrug: Stop pretending its some GOAT feat lol

[Gohan]

Pippen and this season in particular are grossly overrated. Guy lost in the second round after coming off a three-peat. Who cares? :confusedshrug: Stop pretending its some GOAT feat lol

:cheers:

[97 bulls]

Pippen and this season in particular are grossly overrated. Guy lost in the second round after coming off a three-peat. Who cares? :confusedshrug: Stop pretending its some GOAT feat lol
Lol. Bro. You got guys in here calling a Pippen a bum. Bums don't lead teams to 55 wins. Bums don't lead their teams in 5 major categories. Something that only been done by 5 other players.

And any sports fan knows that when the best player goes down, the team is drastically effected. It took 7 games and a bad call to finally oust the Bulls.

But how about this, how many number two players are you taking over Pippen? In NBA history.

[SATAN]

MadDogg is 3ball btw

[TheMan]

This guy claims to be like 40-50 years old and talks like this. :facepalm
Says the 30+ guy who calls himself SATAN

[SATAN]

It's much less egotistical than "TheMan" tbh. :lol

[TheMan]

It's much less egotistical than "TheMan" tbh. :lol

You just jelly I'm the man :pimp:

[AirBonner]

Thread cliffs: Pippen without MJ was at best a Kroger stock boy

[Bawkish]

Only in ISH where you consider 1993-94 Bulls as one the greatest teams in Chicago's franchise history

Nevermind that in 1989 & 1990, MJ suffered big time back problems from carrying the entire team deep with combined total of 3 games away from NBA Finals

[nayte]

Pippen is just a proxy in the Jordan .LeBron wars.
Better not to take these thread seriously

[97 bulls]

Only in ISH where you consider 1993-94 Bulls as one the greatest teams in Chicago's franchise history

Nevermind that in 1989 & 1990, MJ suffered big time back problems from carrying the entire team deep with combined total of 3 games away from NBA Finals

It is when you take into consideration what other number 2s did when the teams best player went down. I bet if Pippen flopped, you Jordanites would never let us forget it.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is just a proxy in the Jordan .LeBron wars.
Better not to take these thread seriously
Lol. So posters can't post great things about Scottie Pippen?

Even if what you're saying is true, understand that the Jordanites started this when they began bashing Jordan's teammates to prop up Jordan. All others are doing is posting stuff that shows what his teammates accomplished.

[97 bulls]

Nobody bashes Tony Parker to prop up Tim Duncan
Nobody bashes James Worthy to prop up Magic Johnson, Nobody bashes Kevin McHale to prop up Larry Bird, Nobody bashes Kobe Bryant to prop up Shaq. Nobody bashes Klay Thompson to prop up Steph Curry

[3ba11]

Nobody bashes Tony Parker to prop up Tim Duncan
Nobody bashes James Worthy to prop up Magic Johnson, Nobody bashes Kevin McHale to prop up Larry Bird, Nobody bashes Klay Thompson to prop up Steph Curry


^^^ 5 reasons that's apples and oranges:


1) You're knocking me for trashing pippen, but lebron fans INFLATE pippen for the purposes of trashing MJ !!!..... aka 1-9 and the idea that MJ would never have won without 19 on 42% from Pippen (career Finals average)

2) The 1st options that you mentioned above aren't in the goat debate (Bird, Duncan, Curry), so there's no fake debate that challenges their goatness - aka there's no need to point out that Klay was infact a secondary producer that forced Curry to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load) because no one is saying Curry is goat or challenging it.

3) none of the sidekicks you mentioned had the 2nd option role to themselves - they all had to share spotlight with 3rd and 4th stars on super-teams, which the Bulls never had.

4) None of them have 6 rings inflating their resume like Pippen

5) None of them are ranked top 30 like Pippen (only Pippen is inflated)




Nobody bashes Tony Parker to prop up Tim Duncan
Nobody bashes James Worthy to prop up Magic Johnson, Nobody bashes Kevin McHale to prop up Larry Bird, Nobody bashes Klay Thompson to prop up Steph Curry


Parker had to share spotlight with a 3rd star, but if Tony Parker won 5 rings with Duncan as the only 2 stars on the team, he would be recognized as top 30 like Pippen.. The difference is that parker VALIDATED his greatness by winning FMVP (25 on 57%) and achieving elite production in many series, while there are zero examples of Pippen playing above an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber

People don't realize that whenever Pippen played, we knew that he would play MUCH worse than Reggie Miller, aka Pippen was drastically outplayed by Miller against the same playoff opponent 5/5 times - he ALWAYS played much worse than Reggie Miller - that's Pippen's caliber.. And we have many other examples of his caliber... aka 0/6 in FMVP.... 0/6 in reaching Horry-level in the Finals... finished plays at half the rate of fossil Barkley in Houston (https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif).... And on... and on... and on..

These are all gauges of Pippen's ability and there's no good gauges - only bad ones like the ones above.

And unlike Wiggins (who developed a losing reputation in Minnesota), Pippen landed with MJ as a rookie - he enjoyed a winning reputation until he left MJ - without MJ, he was always exposed with historic choke (94', 99', 00')

[Hey Yo]

Only in ISH where you consider 1993-94 Bulls as one the greatest teams in Chicago's franchise history

Nevermind that in 1989 & 1990, MJ suffered big time back problems from carrying the entire team deep with combined total of 3 games away from NBA Finals

Jordan quit before game 5 even started in the 89 ECF.

[3ba11]

Not true. Pippen wanted out of Houston because he didn't like the offense and Barkley wasn't committed to winning according to Pippen.





It's well-documented that Houston hated Pippen and said he was a bad player and whiner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-sdnrLGrec&t=09m40s


1999 Pippen - 14 on 40%

^^^ you're trying to excuse that, which should let you know that you're on the wrong side of the argument.







The system that was in place in Houston was completely different than the one he was used to when playing for the Bulls. There was a lot of iso basketball, unlike the free-flowing system the Bulls had in place with the triangle offense. Hakeem and Barkley were taking most of the shots, and Pippen's main task was to get them the ball, and he wasn't so much involved in the offense as he was with the Bulls.





Houston designed the offense for Pippen but he just sucked:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif


They literally tried running the triangle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-sdnrLGrec&t=08m51s

[MadDogg]

Lol. Bro. You got guys in here calling a Pippen a bum. Bums don't lead teams to 55 wins. Bums don't lead their teams in 5 major categories. Something that only been done by 5 other players.

And any sports fan knows that when the best player goes down, the team is drastically effected. It took 7 games and a bad call to finally oust the Bulls.

But how about this, how many number two players are you taking over Pippen? In NBA history.

You're like 3ball who just repeats himself, over and over. Pippen was an awesome #2 and alltime great. We get it dude lol. Yes, Chicago had just rattled off 3 straight titles and lost in the semifinals the following year. Without Jordan and adding Kerr/Kukoc.

Whoop-dee-****ing-do :oldlol:


Pippen is just a proxy in the Jordan .LeBron wars.
Better not to take these thread seriously

Exactly. You don't get these threads made about Dirk, David Robinson or even Doctor J. Like chill bro, its just Scottie Pippen lol

[3ba11]

.
How good is Pippen?

He will ALWAYS play much worse than Reggie Miller - they played the same playoff opponent 5 times:



R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage



He isn't capable of reaching peak Horry-level in the Finals:



95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS



He will finish plays at half the rate of 36-year old Barkley



*SOURCE* (https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif)




No one respected him - everyone knew he couldn't create his own shot and was a system player with low peak capability:



Horry says he would "lock up Scottie Pippen" - here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZpVlMVYr-A&t=24s)

Shaq says Pippen "wasn't on scouting report" - here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)

[97 bulls]

It's well-documented that Houston hated Pippen and said he was a bad player and whiner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-sdnrLGrec&t=09m40s


1999 Pippen - 14 on 40%

^^^ you're trying to excuse that, which should let you know that you're on the wrong side of the argument.







Houston designed the offense for Pippen but he just sucked:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif


They literally tried running the triangle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-sdnrLGrec&t=08m51s

Bro. Go back and watch the video you posted again. Pippen demanded a trade. Pippen said that the offense the Rockets ran wasn't the triangle. And you can't implement an offense like that in the middle of the season. Hell Barkley himself said the offense was bad and stagnant.

It's no secret that Barkley wasn't committed to winning. He was a great player, but he got by solely on talent. That's why he never won. Not to mention that Rockets team was old. I just find it funny that you excuse Wade's failure by alluding to his age, but won't do the same for Pippen with the Rockets and Trailblazers. Even though they were basically the same age.


Can you for once be consistent in your arguments?

[3ba11]

Bro. Go back and watch the video you posted again. Pippen demanded a trade. Pippen said that the offense the Rockets ran wasn't the triangle. And you can't implement an offense like that in the middle of the season. Hell Barkley himself said the offense was bad and stagnant.

It's no secret that Barkley wasn't committed to winning. He was a great player, but he got by solely on talent. That's why he never won. Not to mention that Rockets team was old. I just find it funny that you excuse Wade's failure by alluding to his age, but won't do the same for Pippen with the Rockets and Trailblazers. Even though they were basically the same age.


Can you for once be consistent in your arguments?


The video says that Rudy ran the triangle for Pippen and changed plays for Pippen but Pippen finished those plays less than half as often as plays for Barkley

so you're just ignoring all the facts... Are you aware that pippen averaged 14 on 40% in 1999? How are you defending that?... How are you like "no, that was actually good"

Ultimately, how good will Pippen play against a given team?... MUCH WORSE THAN REGGIE MILLER - they faced the same playoff opponent 5 times and Miller drastically outplayed Pippen 5/5 times (100% of the time)

Pippen is 0/6 in reaching peak Horry-level in the Finals and no one respected him (see shaq and horry quotes in previous post

So you're just wrong about pippen - every objective measure shows that he sucked - he couldn't create his own shot and had low peak capability (no gameplanning required)

[3ba11]

keep in mind that Pippen shot 40% in 1999 - ON ONLY 14 PPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so he had a tiny burden AND STILL COULDN"T HANDLE IT!!!!!!!!!

the reality is that pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan - any other team that has a modicum of scoring at 2nd option will push Pippen to 3rd of 4th option like Houston, or like the 1998 Playoffs when Kukoc outscored Pippen in the 4th quarter and clutch time (last 5 within 5)...

So Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan and otherwise was a 3rd-8th option like he was in Houston and Portland.. Any tiny bit of scoring talent will push Pippen to 3rd option or worse just like Kukoc did in the 2nd half of playoff games.

if pippen never played with jordan, he would be considered worse than Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota before joining Curry's dynasty system.. Pippen is the quintissential system player (aka nothing outside the system that he grew up in)

[97 bulls]

keep in mind that Pippen shot 40% in 1999 - ON ONLY 14 PPG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He shot 43% becuase 30% of his FGAs were 3s. That was his complaint.


so he had a tiny burden AND STILL COULDN"T HANDLE IT!!!!!!!!!

the reality is that pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan - any other team that has a modicum of scoring at 2nd option will push Pippen to 3rd of 4th option like Houston, or like the 1998 Playoffs when Kukoc outscored Pippen in the 4th quarter and clutch time (last 5 within 5)...

So Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan and otherwise was a 3rd-8th option like he was in Houston and Portland.. Any tiny bit of scoring talent will push Pippen to 3rd option or worse just like Kukoc did in the 2nd half of playoff games.

if pippen never played with jordan, he would be considered worse than Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota before joining Curry's dynasty system.. Pippen is the quintissential system player (aka nothing outside the system that he grew up in)
The reality is that Pippen is a top an Alltime great and a Hall of Famer.

[97 bulls]

You're like 3ball who just repeats himself, over and over. Pippen was an awesome #2 and alltime great. We get it dude lol. Yes, Chicago had just rattled off 3 straight titles and lost in the semifinals the following year. Without Jordan and adding Kerr/Kukoc.

Whoop-dee-****ing-do :oldlol:



Exactly. You don't get these threads made about Dirk, David Robinson or even Doctor J. Like chill bro, its just Scottie Pippen lol

Lol. No. You're like 3ball. You probably are 3ball. You guys both have the same dumb logic. And if it's so trivial? Why comment? Nobody is making you click on to this thread.

[3ba11]

he shot 43%





Again, 43% is horrific on such a small burden (14 ppg)

And the reason Pippen's burden was small was because any modicum of scoring talent among the cast will push Pippen down to 3rd through 8th option like he was in Houston and Portland..

And again, the Rockets literally ran the triangle for Pippen.. They changed plays to suit his demands and he finished those plays at half the rate of fossil Barkley.. Pippen simply isn't a 1st option or even a 2nd option - he was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan - any modicum of scoring talent from teamamtes will push Pippen down like when Kukoc averaged more ppg in the 4th quarter and clutch time of the 96' and 98' Playoffs.. again, pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer (jordan)






The reality is that Pippen is a top an Alltime great and a Hall of Famer.





That's what we're debating - we're debating whether those media awards were warranted, or whether the media was influenced by the winning spotlight.

The evidence shows it's the latter (the media is influenced by winning spotlight) because there are zero examples of Pippen playing above an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber, while being worse than Jeff Green outside the system that he grew up in (system player).

[TheMan]

Bro. Go back and watch the video you posted again. Pippen demanded a trade. Pippen said that the offense the Rockets ran wasn't the triangle. And you can't implement an offense like that in the middle of the season. Hell Barkley himself said the offense was bad and stagnant.

It's no secret that Barkley wasn't committed to winning. He was a great player, but he got by solely on talent. That's why he never won. Not to mention that Rockets team was old. I just find it funny that you excuse Wade's failure by alluding to his age, but won't do the same for Pippen with the Rockets and Trailblazers. Even though they were basically the same age.


Can you for once be consistent in your arguments?

Just to be clear, I'm a Bulls fan first and an MJ fan second. I don't bash Pippen nor his teammates, hell MJ is the first to tell you Pip was integral in winning 6 titles.

What I push against is the narrative that Scottie Pippen was the catalyst in the Bulls championship run (GoatTits), he was McHale to Bird, Worthy to Magic, Drexler to Hakeem, Kobe to Shaq, Gasol to Kobe etc...some of these fools say that to prop up James and throw shade at MJ. Without MJ, there's no 90s Bulls dynasty, and yes, he needed Pippen, every GOAT tier player needs quality teammates, can't win without a team. Don't confuse me with 3ba11.

[MadDogg]

Lol. No. You're like 3ball. You probably are 3ball. You guys both have the same dumb logic. And if it's so trivial? Why comment? Nobody is making you click on to this thread.

You're mentally impaired or something lol. I don't even agree with 3ball, and have literally argued with him. Also are you a mod? If I want to comment on something I'll comment. :confusedshrug: You just spam the forum though with your ridiculous Pippen affinity. Again, that's 3ball just on the other side of the coin. Yikes.

[97 bulls]

Again, 43% is horrific on such a small burden (14 ppg)

This is another example of your agenda. Pippen said the offense wasnt conducive to his strengths. He said they wanted him to be a 3pt shooter. And the stats bare it out. He played almost 5 more minutes a game than Barkley and Olajuwan, but took less shots. And 30% of those shots were from 3.



And the reason Pippen's burden was small was because any modicum of scoring talent among the cast will push Pippen down to 3rd through 8th option like he was in Houston and Portland..
Pippen was older in Portland damn near 35 years old. Again, think back to your Wade argument. You said Wade was old. Why can't you afford the same logic to Pippen? Put prime Pippen on that Portland team and they Mollywhomp the Lakers.


And again, the Rockets literally ran the triangle for Pippen..
No they didn't.


They changed plays to suit his demands and he finished those plays at half the rate of fossil Barkley..
Pippen and were basically the same age lol. You're acting like Pippen was young.


Pippen simply isn't a 1st option or even a 2nd option - he was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan - any modicum of scoring talent from teamamtes will push Pippen down like when Kukoc averaged more ppg in the 4th quarter and clutch time of the 96' and 98' Playoffs.. again, pippen was only a 2nd option alongside the goat scorer (jordan)
Small sample size bro. Kinda hard to make thst determination when Pippen only had one full year to lead a team in his prime.






That's what we're debating - we're debating whether those media awards were warranted, or whether the media was influenced by the winning spotlight.

The evidence shows it's the latter (the media is influenced by winning spotlight) because there are zero examples of Pippen playing above an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber, while being worse than Jeff Green outside the system that he grew up in (system player).

Winning is always gonna be the benchmark bro. It's not like Pippen was a bench player. He played a major role on 6 Championships.

Pippen was considered one of the best players in the league in 94 and 95. Even though the Bulls didn't win.

[bison]

if pippan never played with jordan and never won all those rings, he would be mostly forgotten player, like a kendall gill or cedric ceballos type

[97 bulls]

Just to be clear, I'm a Bulls fan first and an MJ fan second. I don't bash Pippen nor his teammates, hell MJ is the first to tell you Pip was integral in winning 6 titles.

What I push against is the narrative that Scottie Pippen was the catalyst in the Bulls championship run (GoatTits), he was McHale to Bird, Worthy to Magic, Drexler to Hakeem, Kobe to Shaq, Gasol to Kobe etc...some of these fools say that to prop up James and throw shade at MJ. Without MJ, there's no 90s Bulls dynasty, and yes, he needed Pippen, every GOAT tier player needs quality teammates, can't win without a team. Don't confuse me with 3ba11.

I agree with everything you stated. I wouldn't change a thing. What I'd like to direct your attention to us perspective. As I see it, the Lebron fans are only responding to this notion that Jordan won those 6 rings by himself. Even more so in spite of his teammates. As if not only did they not help, they actually hurt and Jordan had to overcome playing with less talented players than other alltjme greats.

I mean, if you're saying Scottie Pippen was Mo Williams, or he'd be a run of the mill player, then it's obvious that these clowns believe that MJ could've win with anybody.

And that's where you get the 1-9 responses, and the 94 and 95 seasons, and the proping of his teammates. It's to show that Jordan had great players around him as well.

I've always maintained that these Jordan stans created this monster.

[97 bulls]

if pippan never played with jordan and never won all those rings, he would be mostly forgotten player, like a kendall gill or cedric ceballos type

This is what I'm talking about lol. Prime example.

[TheGoatest]

if pippan never played with jordan and never won all those rings, he would be mostly forgotten player, like a kendall gill or cedric ceballos type

The Great Scott Pippen accomplished more in his 1993-94 season without Foolish jordon's ball hogging than those players accomplished in their careers combined.
He also accomplished more in the 1993-94 season than Foolish jordon himself did in the 5 seasons he played without The Great Scott Pippen by the way, but that's besides the point. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

You're mentally impaired or something lol. I don't even agree with 3ball, and have literally argued with him. Also are you a mod? If I want to comment on something I'll comment. :confusedshrug: You just spam the forum though with your ridiculous Pippen affinity. Again, that's 3ball just on the other side of the coin. Yikes.

Lol. I know what you're doing bro. You want to silence me because I disagree with you and 3ball stupid logic. So instead of actually debating my points, you'd rather make it seem as if I'm the one being trivial. How am I spamming? How often do you see me posting? 3ball is the one you need to be going after. And I see no issue with posting the great things Pippen has done.

This is typical. Anytime someone posts something positive about Scottie Pippen or any of Jordans teammates, insecure Jordanite clowns like you and 3ball come in and troll the thread. There's a Dennis Rodman thread that was made today. Sure enough, 3ball stupid ass comes in to bash Rodman.

Stop the passive aggressive BS. If you don't like my responses put me on ignore chump. I'm not asking for your opinion.

[MadDogg]

Lol. I know what you're doing bro. You want to silence me because I disagree with you and 3ball stupid logic. So instead of actually debating my points, you'd rather make it seem as if I'm the one being trivial. How am I spamming? How often do you see me posting? 3ball is the one you need to be going after. And I see no issue with posting the great things Pippen has done.

This is typical. Anytime someone posts something positive about Scottie Pippen or any of Jordans teammates, insecure Jordanite clowns like you and 3ball come in and troll the thread. There's a Dennis Rodman thread that was made today. Sure enough, 3ball stupid ass comes in to bash Rodman.

Stop the passive aggressive BS. If you don't like my responses put me on ignore chump. I'm not asking for your opinion.

I think you were dropped on your head as a kid. Repeatedly lol. Already told you that 3ball and I dont agree. The only "point" you made is the same tired one you ALWAYS make. Its the same shit. Rinse and repeat. "Pippen = Underrated. Jordan = overrated! Pippen was the leader. Jordan was just a scorer! 55 wins in 1994! 1-9 without Pippen!!!" You and 3ball do this because you're agenda posters, obsessed with narratives.

Look at you bringing up "Jordanites" lol. You already told on yourself. But feel free to be a shitcan poster. You're right. I can't stop a dumbass from punching keys. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

I think you were dropped on your head as a kid. Repeatedly lol. Already told you that 3ball and I dont agree. The only "point" you made is the same tired one you ALWAYS make. Its the same shit. Rinse and repeat. "Pippen = Underrated. Jordan = overrated! Pippen was the leader. Jordan was just a scorer! 55 wins in 1994! 1-9 without Pippen!!!" You and 3ball do this because you're agenda posters, obsessed with narratives.

Look at you bringing up "Jordanites" lol. You already told on yourself. But feel free to be a shitcan poster. You're right. I can't stop a dumbass from punching keys. :oldlol:

I know what you said. I'm calling you a liar. You have the same crazy ass talking points that the other Jordanites do. And I'm gonna keep making my points clown.

[MadDogg]

I know what you said. I'm calling you a liar. You have the same crazy ass talking points that the other Jordanites do.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?490731-Dennis-Rodman-won-7-rebounding-titles-in-the-90%92s/page3

A thread where I argue 96 Rodman could've been FMVP. 3ball doesn't agree. What now asshole?


And I'm gonna keep making my points clown.

lol no surprise there. Idiots tend to repeat themselves

[97 bulls]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?490731-Dennis-Rodman-won-7-rebounding-titles-in-the-90%92s/page3

A thread where I argue 96 Rodman could've been FMVP. 3ball doesn't agree. What now asshole?



lol no surprise there. Idiots tend to repeat themselves

I'm still calling you a liar. As I stated in a previous post you're a passive aggressive BSer as well. And you didn't argue anything, you just made a comment dummy. Whoop-dee-damn-do.

[MadDogg]

I'm still calling you a liar. As I stated in a previous post you're a passive aggressive BSer as well. And you didn't argue anything, you just made a comment dummy. Whoop-dee-damn-do.

I mean, that's all we can do here. Make a comment. Its a message-board, dumbfukk :oldlol: Idk what else you want to go off of, but its irrelevant at this point. You're hopelessly remedial.

[3ba11]

This is another example of your agenda. Pippen said the offense wasnt conducive to his strengths. He said they wanted him to be a 3pt shooter.





So Pippen doesn't fit with Hakeem and couldn't be his sidekick or win titles with him - Pippen said it himself - they wanted him to be a shooter.

The bad fit with Hakeem cements Pippen's status as role-playing defensive player alongside Hakeem, especially since Pippen is always moved below 2nd option whenever there's a modicum of scoring talent elsewhere on the cast.. We saw this in Houston and Portland, while Kukoc was 2nd option in the 98' Playoffs - he actually led Pippen in 4th quarter and clutch time ppg for entire 98' Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS), while having mini-personal runs of dominance in the 96' Finals as Pip wet the bed (outlined in the championship video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=30m08s), here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=33m50s), and here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=37m33s)).

Ultimately, the historical record shows that Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan, and otherwise had bad fits or insufficient scoring punch to be a 2nd option elsewhere.







Why can't you afford the same age excuse to Pippen that you give Wade in 2014?





I never called Wade old because he was an all-star from 2013 to 2016 with prime Pippen stats (20/5/5), which includes leading the Heat to the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls.







Pippen was older in Portland damn near 35 years old. Again, think back to your Wade argument. You said Wade was old.





no, that's what YOU said

age was your excuse for Wade playing poorly in the 14' Finals

I've always refuted this by saying that Wade wasn't that old and had simply had a bad series - he actually was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF because Lebron averaged 22.8 and Wade got 20/5/5 - Wade was also an all-star and achieved prime Pippen stats in the 16' season, which included nearly making the ECF just like the 94' Bulls.

So when you guys called Wade old for that one bad series, the reality is that he had simply fallen to prime Pippen level from 2013 to 2016 (20/5/5 with all-star), and therefore was susceptible to having real stinkers occasionally (see the 92' ECSF, 93' 1st Round or 96' Finals - pippen averaged about 15 on 35% in each series, give or take a point or percentage).






Put prime Pippen on that Portland team and they Mollywhomp the Lakers.





You can say that about anything - put prime Grant Hill on the 16' Warriors and they win.

Ultimately, it takes very little scoring ability among the cast to unseat Pippen as 2nd option - Kukoc was 2nd option over prime Pippen in the 98' Playoffs by virtue of similar ppg and leading 4th quarter ppg.. In addition to Pippen's low ppg, his limited capacity outside the triangle (system player) and bad fits with post players like Hakeem, Rasheed and Sabonis would put him below sidekick status on any team outside of Jordan's - he was only 2nd option alongside Jordan.

Pippen is the only 90's sidekick that was more of a hustle/transition player that needed the triangle to set everything up for him (system player)..

[97 bulls]

I mean, that's all we can do here. Make a comment. Its a message-board, dumbfukk :oldlol: Idk what else you want to go off of, but its irrelevant at this point. You're hopelessly remedial.

Lol. You said you argued with 3ball dummy. You made a comment. That's all you did.

But I stand corrected. Touche.

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2015/VNMnV0.gif


Imagine giving Jordan's sidekick a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter of the clinching game.............

Could he win without Jordan?.. What more could he ask for right?

Of he couldn't win... the ONLY thing pippen knew to do was choke it off... literally not a winner or achiever without the dynasty that MJ built

[97 bulls]

So Pippen doesn't fit with Hakeem and couldn't be his sidekick or win titles with him - Pippen said it himself - they wanted him to be a shooter.
So?


The bad fit with Hakeem cements Pippen's status as role-playing defensive player alongside Hakeem, especially since Pippen is always moved below 2nd option whenever there's a modicum of scoring talent elsewhere on the cast.. We saw this in Houston and Portland, while Kukoc was 2nd option in the 98' Playoffs - he actually led Pippen in 4th quarter and clutch time ppg for entire 98' Playoffs (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=PTS), while having mini-personal runs of dominance in the 96' Finals as Pip wet the bed (outlined in the championship video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=30m08s), here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=33m50s), and here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfAoaAb3Nc0&t=37m33s)).

Ultimately, the historical record shows that Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan, and otherwise had bad fits or insufficient scoring punch to be a 2nd option elsewhere.

All it shows was that Pippens style and strengths didnt mesh well with Olajuwan and Barkely. Its not a knock on any of them. And they were all old







I never called Wade old because he was an all-star from 2013 to 2016 with prime Pippen stats (20/5/5), which includes leading the Heat to the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls.







no, that's what YOU said

Heres your quote:


The Heat were injured in 2015 but nearly made the 16' ECF just like the 94' Bulls.. The only difference is that fossil Wadeoutplayed peak Pippen with near-equal stats, while having goat-level clutch stats compared to Pippen's worst ever - Wade and Curry led the NBA in clutch points for the 2016 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter of the 94' ECSF.[/B]
The word you used was "fossil". In other words you called Wade old.


age was your excuse for Wade playing poorly in the 14' Finals
I never brought up 2014. In fact, you actually changed my quote. Why would you lie on me by actually changing my words? People get sued for that. Lol


I've always refuted this by saying that Wade wasn't that old and had simply had a bad series - he actually was equal-scoring partner to Lebron in the 14' ECF because Lebron averaged 22.8 and Wade got 20/5/5 - Wade was also an all-star and achieved prime Pippen stats in the 16' season, which included nearly making the ECF just like the 94' Bulls.

I never brought up Wade 3ball. You did. And you called Wade a fossil. I did answer your 2016 assessment on the Heat. The Heat replaced Lebron James with Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, and Goran Dragic. And you never responded to this fact.








You can say that about anything - put prime Grant Hill on the 16' Warriors and they win.

Apples to Oranges. Pippen was actually on that Blazers team. He was just old.


Ultimately, it takes very little scoring ability among the cast to unseat Pippen as 2nd option - Kukoc was 2nd option over prime Pippen in the 98' Playoffs by virtue of similar ppg and leading 4th quarter ppg.. In addition to Pippen's low ppg, his limited capacity outside the triangle (system player) and bad fits with post players like Hakeem, Rasheed and Sabonis would cement him below sidekick status on any team outside of Jordan's - he was only 2nd option alongside Jordan.

Pippen is the only 90's sidekick that was more of a hustle/transition player that needed the triangle to set everything up for him (system player)..
Go back and rewatch the two videos that started this chat.

[outofstomach]

Only in ISH where you consider 1993-94 Bulls as one the greatest teams in Chicago's franchise history

Nevermind that in 1989 & 1990, MJ suffered big time back problems from carrying the entire team deep with combined total of 3 games away from NBA Finals
it can’t even be taken seriously honestly :lol it’s amazing how this 97 bulls kid goes to the grave defending pippen due to people simply pointing out that he wasn’t GOAT-tier, while covertly (or not so subtly, really) attempting to disparage jordan and discredit him, it’s just sad and clearly agenda driven :lol

it is what it is though

[outofstomach]

Pippen is just a proxy in the Jordan .LeBron wars.
Better not to take these thread seriously
literally this :lol lots of these folk itt don’t genuinely care or appreciate pippen’s time in the NBA, he’s just a pawn to further anti-MJ rhetoric and sometimes obviously vice versa, i only really see mostly of the former, the latter mainly comes from 3ball :lol

[Axe]

it can’t even be taken seriously honestly :lol it’s amazing how this 97 bulls kid goes to the grave defending pippen due to people simply pointing out that he wasn’t GOAT-tier, while covertly (or not so subtly, really) attempting to disparage jordan and discredit him, it’s just sad and clearly agenda driven :lol

it is what it is though
You are entitled to your own opinion but you can't say pippen is garbage tho. :confusedshrug:

[outofstomach]

You are entitled to your own opinion but you can't say pippen is garbage tho. :confusedshrug:
i’d never say pippen is garbage, the truth is that pippen was a fantastic/solid player, however it seems like people tend to blow more smoke up his ass than is warranted to diminish Jordan, this is where people began harping on his various playoff failures and times he quit etc

[3ba11]

All it shows was that Pippens style and strengths didnt mesh well with Olajuwan and Barkely. Its not a knock on any of them. And they were all old





You said it - Pippen didn't fit with Hakeem - so he couldn't win with Hakeem like 1999 showed..

And those Rockets were more stacked than the Bulls because Pippen was at 3rd option, not 2nd like the Bulls.

Pippen just sucked and only MJ could win with him... Heck, prime Wade/Bosh couldn't win with Pippen in the 2011 Finals - Lebron was exactly like Pippen in that series (18/7/6 and frightened in the clutch).. MJ won 6 titles with that crap.







Heres your quote:

The word you used was "fossil". In other words you called Wade old.





You misunderstood the point - I was complimenting Wade and saying that old Wade from 2016 outplayed prime Pippen from 1994.

which he did.

Wade nearly led the 16' Heat to the ECF just like 94' Pippen with similar stats, except Wade led the league in clutch points for the 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter against the Knicks.

you never have any response for Pippen's shit performance and the fact that he never played better than Iggy or Wiggins.. or that everyone outplays prime pippen like fossil wade, or reggie miller or horry - all you have are dumb media accolades - you have no PERFORMANCE to brag about for Pippen.. he never played better than iggy or wiggins.. and 55 wins is normal - not top 30 all-time






The Heat replaced Lebron James with Luol Deng, Joe Johnson, and Goran Dragic. And you never responded to this fact.





Bulls replaced jordan with myers, kerr, kukoc, longley, wennington, caffey - the entire team was upgraded






Apples to Oranges. Pippen was actually on that Blazers team. He was just old.





2000 Pippen was younger than Jordan when Jordan won his 6th title and 5th league MVP.

Pippen just sucked. He had no handle or jumper and was 8th option on those Blazers.






Go back and rewatch the two videos that started this chat.





Those are highlights and mean nothing - Pippen wasn't a good scorer with the lowest peak scoring capability of any 90's sidekick - he's the only 90's sidekick that wasn't a 1b and capable of elite production.. he was a transition player and couldn't score in the half court

Do you realize that Kukoc was preferred over Pippen? Do you think that's a joke or something?.. it's actual fact!!! that's how bad pippen was.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games and outscored pippen in the 4th and clutch time.

[97 bulls]

You said it - Pippen didn't fit with Hakeem - so he couldn't win with Hakeem like 1999 showed..
Right. That doesnt mean Pippen sucked. Jordan wouldn't have won with Olajuwan either if he was relegated to being a 3pt shooter.


those Rockets were more stacked than the Bulls because Pippen was at 3rd option, not 2nd like the Bulls.

Pippen just sucked and only MJ could win with him... Heck, prime Wade/Bosh couldn't win with Pippen in the 2011 Finals - Lebron was exactly like Pippen in that series (18/7/6 and frightened in the clutch).. MJ won 6 titles with that crap.
Why didn't Jordan even get close to winning without Pippen. Again, the math aint mathing. The Bulls were awful until Pippen came along.






You misunderstood the point - I was complimenting Wade and saying that old Wade from 2016 outplayed prime Pippen from 1994.

which he did.
Totally different situations.


Wade nearly led the 16' Heat to the ECF just like 94' Pippen with similar stats, except Wade led the league in clutch points for the 2nd Round, while Pippen averaged 3 on 20% in the 4th quarter against the Knicks.
Pippen was the much better defender.


you never have any response for Pippen's shit performance and the fact that he never played better than Iggy or Wiggins.. or that everyone outplays prime pippen like fossil wade, or reggie miller or horry - all you have are dumb media accolades - you have no PERFORMANCE to brag about for Pippen.. he never played better than iggy or wiggins.. and 55 wins is normal - not top 30 all-time
I gave you responses before. Pippen played hurt. He didn't take almost 2 years off to recoup, he always made the playoffs. Or sometime, he just played bad. But even when he had bad offensive stats, he still had high impact because of his defensive abilities.






Bulls replaced jordan with myers, kerr, kukoc, longley, wennington, caffey - the entire team was upgraded
Really bro? SMDH. Kerr replaced Paxson, Longley replaced Cartwright. MYERS replaced Jordan.







2000 Pippen was younger than Jordan when Jordan won his 6th title and 5th league MVP.

Pippen just sucked. He had no handle or jumper and was 8th option on those Blazers.

I honestly think this is what its about. You think Pippen is Jordan's level. So you much go out of your way to disprove that logic to yourself.





Those are highlights and mean nothing - Pippen wasn't a good scorer with the lowest peak scoring capability of any 90's sidekick - he's the only 90's sidekick that wasn't a 1b and capable of elite production.. he was a transition player and couldn't score in the half court

Do you realize that Kukoc was preferred over Pippen? Do you think that's a joke or something?.. it's actual fact!!! that's how bad pippen was.. Kukoc was preferred in the 2nd half of playoff games and outscored pippen in the 4th and clutch time.
I disagree. Pippen was the perfect compliment to Jordan who impacted the game in a myriad of ways.

[Axe]

i’d never say pippen is garbage, the truth is that pippen was a fantastic/solid player, however it seems like people tend to blow more smoke up his ass than is warranted to diminish Jordan, this is where people began harping on his various playoff failures and times he quit etc
Lol 1-9 is being brought up for those casuals who think jordan was a solo force during the 90s dynasty when in reality, he's quite had a stacked team bt. Well, at least compared to the mild competition that existed in their time before.

[Baller789]

Lol 1-9 is being brought up for those casuals who think jordan was a solo force during the 90s dynasty when in reality, he's quite had a stacked team bt. Well, at least compared to the mild competition that existed in their time before.

The incel has spoken.

:bowdown:

[Axe]

Exhibit A above of a renowned horny prostitute who can't stop following me like a hungry bitch. :oldlol:

[Pitbull]

Pippen is one of best perimeter defenders of all time.

[Baller789]

Exhibit A above of a renowned horny prostitute who can't stop following me like a hungry bitch. :oldlol:

Yes Mr. Incel.

[1987_Lakers]

Has Baller ever said anything worth reading?

[Baller789]

Has Baller ever said anything worth reading?

How would you know? Unless you read it. Which means you just contradicted yourself.

:pimp:

[SATAN]

Has Baller ever said anything worth reading?

I never seen him say anything at all worth reading before blocking him. He wasn't as bad as Full Court but yeah...Another one of those posters that clearly doesn't watch basketball and is just here to troll basketball fans. I think they could both benefit from seeing a therapist.

It's amusing seeing hateraid unleash on them every now and then though. :lol

[Baller789]

I never seen him say anything at all worth reading before blocking him. He wasn't as bad as Full Court but yeah...Another one of those posters that clearly doesn't watch basketball and is just here to troll basketball fans. I think they could both benefit from seeing a therapist.

It's amusing seeing hateraid unleash on them every now and then though. :lol

Pretend to block me, but then have alts. :roll:

[Axe]

has baller ever said anything worth reading?
n-e-v-e-r

[Phoenix]

Pippen just sucked. He had no handle or jumper and was 8th option on those Blazers.






Since when is the third scorer on a team the '8th option:
Season:
Wallace 16.4
S.Smith 14.9
Pippen/Stoudamire 12.5
Sabonis 11.9

Playoffs:
Wallace 17.9
Smith 17.1
Pippen 14.9
Sabonis 11.3
Stoudamire 8.9

We get it, you think Pippen sucks. You're not changing your mind, and people you're arguing with every day aren't changing theirs. Ultimately who gives a fukk? But you can make your redundant points without the extreme hyperbole. And no, I'm not going back and forth with you like the others here are. Even I'm guilty of it at times, but you're given way too much attention( including the 2 minutes I'm wasting now typing this).

[Hey Yo]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-17-2015/VNMnV0.gif


Imagine giving Jordan's sidekick a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter of the clinching game.............

Could he win without Jordan?.. What more could he ask for right?

Of he couldn't win... the ONLY thing pippen knew to do was choke it off... literally not a winner or achiever without the dynasty that MJ built

Imagine replacing prime Jordan with a 6th round pick and thinking they could win 55gms.


Oh wait, they did..... :roll:

[ImKobe]

Anyone tell me what Pippen did in '99 coming off a 3-Peat on a new loaded team without Jordan?

[TheMan]

Imagine replacing prime Jordan with a 6th round pick and thinking they could win 55gms.


Oh wait, they did..... :roll:

They overachieved but us Bulls fans knew they weren't winning it all without their best player.

[TheGoatest]

Anyone tell me what Pippen did in '99 coming off a 3-Peat on a new loaded team without Jordan?

He had a .500 season, unlike you know who without you know who in the 5 seasons between 1984-87 and 2001-03. :roll:


They overachieved but us Bulls fans knew they weren't winning it all without their best player.

https://media.tenor.com/T-2ZALlZIlIAAAAM/happiness-laughing.gif

[Hey Yo]

They overachieved but us Bulls fans knew they weren't winning it all without their best player.

They won more postseason games in 94 than they did with their best player in 95.

[Soundwave]

They won more postseason games in 94 than they did with their best player in 95.

That Shaq-Penny Magic team would've destroyed, probably swept the 1994 Bulls.

The 95 Bulls actually probably could have beaten them, but Jordan made that gaffe at the end of game 1 and was gassed at the end of game 6 too ... but you can't just take 18 months off basketball and come back in the same shape. If the 95 Bulls had gotten Jordan back maybe 2 months earlier ... that would've been quite interesting.

Think they probably beat Orlando in that case even without Rodman.

[Round Mound]

They did loose Horace Grant in 1995. That's the main reason why the Bulls could not advance more. Lets remember that Jordan scored 55 points on the Knicks in 1995. So he wasn't THAT rusty as some claim to believe.

[Axe]

That Shaq-Penny Magic team would've destroyed, probably swept the 1994 Bulls.

The 95 Bulls actually probably could have beaten them, but Jordan made that gaffe at the end of game 1 and was gassed at the end of game 6 too ... but you can't just take 18 months off basketball and come back in the same shape. If the 95 Bulls had gotten Jordan back maybe 2 months earlier ... that would've been quite interesting.

Think they probably beat Orlando in that case even without Rodman.
Nice try but the 55-win bulls in 94 still had a better rs record than the magic that year, so they would have hca in case they had to face them in the playoffs bt.

[Soundwave]

They did loose Horace Grant in 1995. That's the main reason why the Bulls could not advance more. Lets remember that Jordan scored 55 points on the Knicks in 1995. So he wasn't THAT rusty as some claim to believe.

That's not really how basketball works, I don't think too many people here actually even have played basketball at a high school level.

Bulls had Orlando on the ropes in game 1 and 6 of that series, Jordan just didn't have his conditioning under him. Baseball is a totally different kind of sport.

There's "basketball shape" and there's "playoff basketball shape" too. Yes he could score 55 in bursts on sheer talent, but he clearly was not as the same exact player from 1993 or 1995-96.

If he had come back maybe around Christmas time instead of like freaking March (very late in the season) with only 17 games to go in the season ... that's cutting it way too late.

If anything it just shows you can't cheat the game even if you're the greatest. You gotta put in the work, doesn't matter who you are. And that's not a bad lesson for anyone, there's no short cut to greatness.

[Soundwave]

Nice try but the 55-win bulls in 94 still had a better rs record than the magic that year, so they would have hca in case they had to face them in the playoffs bt.

They get killed by Orlando, the Magic were sometimes lazy because they were so talented but that team was loaded.

If Penny did not get hurt and Shaq had stayed they probably win 2-3 titles eventually, probably starting in 1999. Pippen is no where near on the same planet as Shaq, Jordan + Shaq would win like 10 titles in a row it wouldn't even be fair to the league.

[Axe]

They get killed by Orlando, the Magic were sometimes lazy because they were so talented but that team was loaded.

If Penny did not get hurt and Shaq had stayed they probably win 2-3 titles eventually, probably starting in 1999. Pippen is no where near on the same planet as Shaq, Jordan + Shaq would win like 10 titles in a row it wouldn't even be fair to the league.
Yep, so talented that they got swept in the finals by a 47-win team despite their hca. :oldlol:

I like shaq a lot but he wasn't ripe yet during that time and his help in orlando isn't something noteworthy either.

[TheMan]

He had a .500 season, unlike you know who without you know who in the 5 seasons between 1984-87 and 2001-03. :roll:



https://media.tenor.com/T-2ZALlZIlIAAAAM/happiness-laughing.gif
Everyone here knows I'm a Bulls fan. I'm not changing from team to team chasing my mancrush.

[TheMan]

They won more postseason games in 94 than they did with their best player in 95.

True, but after that they were led to another threepeat by said best player so it's all good :cheers:

[ImKobe]

He had a .500 season, unlike you know who without you know who in the 5 seasons between 1984-87 and 2001-03. :roll:




Rockets won 31 out of 50 and he was the 3rd best player next to a washed up Barkley & Hakeem. 33%FG in a 1st round loss. Up 1 and turns the ball over which costs them Game 1 and basically the series too as it's a BO5.. 6/23 in a home elimination game taking 11 3PA in 1999 lmao.. Pippen was never THAT guy.

[SATAN]

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/r4g6zurw19zgxyhebwfp.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC4i_6FAOxQ

:bowdown:

[TheMan]

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/r4g6zurw19zgxyhebwfp.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC4i_6FAOxQ

:bowdown:

Love me some Pip :cheers:

[TheGoatest]

Rockets won 31 out of 50 and he was the 3rd best player next to a washed up Barkley & Hakeem. 33%FG in a 1st round loss. Up 1 and turns the ball over which costs them Game 1 and basically the series too as it's a BO5.. 6/23 in a home elimination game taking 11 3PA in 1999 lmao.. Pippen was never THAT guy.

No surprise that a Foolish jordon extremist alt desperately wants to make it look like 3rd leading scorer = 3rd best player. You must have that confused with Foolish jordon being worse than a past his prime Jerry Stackhouse on the Wizards, who averaged more points AND assists than Foolish jordon.
The Great Scott Pippen made the all-defensive team with the Rockets (something that Foolish jordon never did without him), while the Rockets had a significantly better record than the previous, as well as the following season without him. Kind of like the Bulls did.. Yet oddly enough they did just fine without Foolish jordon in 1993-94.

And LMAO at a Foolish jordon extremist alt daring to talk about series-costing turnovers...

https://images.solecollector.com/complex/image/upload/m7tdrq1uqt9yxrjdnjne.jpg

Careful there with that ball, Foolish jordon. Nick just might end up snatching it. :roll:

[Axe]

*autistic rambling*
You look foolish trying to obsess about anything in the 90s, despite thinking it's a watered-down era or inferior to modern eras. Get a grip boyo. You are no different from that bran-hating mongoloid full court.

[TheMan]

You look foolish trying to obsess about anything in the 90s, despite thinking it's a watered-down era or inferior to modern eras. Get a grip boyo. You are no different from that bran-hating mongoloid full court.

He's the 3ba11 of the Bran fam. Both obsessed with their mancrush and spending waaaay too much time throwing shade at the player that has them on skates.

[1987_Lakers]

Love me some Pip :cheers:

Too bad Justin Fields looks like another bust for Chicago.

[3ba11]

He's the 3ba11 of the Bran fam. Both obsessed with their mancrush and spending waaaay too much time throwing shade at the player that has them on skates.


Don't equate MJ and Lebron and pretend that both guys have a case

one is a fraud - that isn't a mancrush or whatever beta euphemism and projecting spin you want to put on it - it's facts

modern media propped up a guy that stacked his team and doesn't really know how to win - 20 years of mostly losing his ass and getting excuses from the media

again.. they aren't the same - the lebron fans don't have a case to say Jordan was a fraud

[TheMan]

Too bad Justin Fields looks like another bust for Chicago.

I don't understand what my love for Pippen has to do with Justin Fields? You could've just posted your opinion on Fields in the NFL thread too. And yeah, he looks lost BUT he has trash around him so it's difficult to really judge...when he has time and isn't running for his life, he has made decent passes.

[TheMan]

Don't equate MJ and Lebron and pretend that both guys have a case

one is a fraud - that isn't a mancrush or whatever beta euphemism and projecting spin you want to put on it - it's facts

modern media propped up a guy that stacked his team and doesn't really know how to win - 20 years of mostly losing his ass and getting excuses from the media

again.. they aren't the same - the lebron fans don't have a case to say Jordan was a fraud

I agree that the media is pushing a false narrative, but my point is that you spend way too much time hating on James. Relax bro, MJ is the consensus GOAT, LeBron isn't overtaking MJ's spot this late into his career, if it hasn't happened already, it never will. Chill.

[Baller789]

n-e-v-e-r

Axe has n-e-v-e-r lost his virginity :lol

[Axe]

I never seen him say anything at all worth reading before blocking him. He wasn't as bad as Full Court but yeah...Another one of those posters that clearly doesn't watch basketball and is just here to troll basketball fans. I think they could both benefit from seeing a therapist.

It's amusing seeing hateraid unleash on them every now and then though. :lol
So true. All of her posts are nothing but ad hominem garbage. :oldlol:

[Baller789]

So true. All of her posts are nothing but ad hominem garbage. :oldlol:

Ad hominems, like your corny one liners? Delusional as always :D


Poor incel.

[Axe]

Sorry you can't stay on topic because i'm the root cause of your meltdowns, slutty bitch. :confusedshrug:

[Bawkish]

When Pip plays hard....every Brontards gets a boner

[Baller789]

Sorry you can't stay on topic because i'm the root cause of your meltdowns, slutty bitch. :confusedshrug:

Incorrect.

Unlike you I have a life outside this forum.

[Axe]

If that's true, then you wouldn't follow me like a dog in these threads. :confusedshrug:

[Baller789]

If that's true, then you wouldn't follow me like a dog in these threads. :confusedshrug:

Lmao! I don't even check the boards daily. Unlike a certain incel stuck in a basement fatty.

[Axe]

Guys, somebody admit this silly bitch above me into a mental asylum. Not sure if she's high on adderalls or crack once more.

[Baller789]

Guys, somebody admit this silly bitch above me into a mental asylum. Not sure if she's high on adderalls or crack once more.

:roll:

Poor incel, maybe you should go out more.

[Axe]

She lied about saying she has 'a life outside of this forum' yet she can't stop whining about me lmao.

[Baller789]

28k posts says otherwise. :pimp:

[TheGoatest]

28k posts says otherwise. :pimp:

:oldlol: @ you being forced to admit that career totals matter when it suits your agenda.

[Axe]

And the bitch is still not done barking. Exactly just like her pathetic boyfriend. :confusedshrug: :lol

[Baller789]

Funny thing about Axe is the closest he would ever get to a woman is calling everyone else a she. :oldlol:

What an incel.

[Axe]

Blurts out earlier she 'has a life outside this forum'. But keeps on whining about a random user in this message board for no apparent reason lol. Liar as usual.

[nayte]

Foolish Jordon is now one of my favourite sayings lol

Should of had ten rings if he wasn't so foolish

It's like abridged..silly Gohan ..lol

[Baller789]

Blah blah blah I make up corny "insulting" dorky adjectives.

Incel indeed. :lol

[Axe]

:oldlol: @ you being forced to admit that career totals matter when it suits your agenda.
:roll:

[Baller789]

If you call 28k posts in a dead forum a career...

:roll:


What a bunch of losers. :oldlol:

[Axe]

yap yap yap yap
:roll:

[Baller789]

The incel has spoken.

[Axe]

help me help! i can't stop whining about a random poster who has 28k posts!
:yaohappy:

[Baller789]

Axe the GOAT with 28k CAREER posts.

Hey don't get mad at me, that's your fellow Bronies logic. :oldlol:

[Axe]

*sniffle* bronies! *sniffle*
:lol

[Baller789]

Career 28k posts. And his fellow Bronie even doubled down on it like a badge of honor :oldlol:

Thats how you stay a virgin Axey.

[Axe]

Waaah axe and those bronies waaah ! ! !
Lmao look who's still on suicide watch, guys.

[Baller789]

The insults would actually have merit if Axe wasn't a fat incel.


Except he is. So meh.

[Axe]

Hurrr axe an incel durrr can't leave him alone at all kyuhhh
:biggums:

[Baller789]

Why would I stop poking at the retarded kid when I'm enjoying myself. :lol

[Axe]

help ! my arse can't stop bleeding because of a random person in the internet !
:facepalm

[Baller789]

:facepalm

Was that supposed to hurt?

Oh you lil incel, so naive in the ways of the outside world. :lol

[Axe]

an incel makes my fragile ego shiver
...

[Baller789]

Axe the virgin :oldlol:

[Axe]

i'm an anti-incel waste of sperm who wishes to be blown in smithereens there at ukraine
Interesting.

[Baller789]

Axe on full meltdown mode. Poor incel.

Couldn't even get laid if I gave him $10,000 :cry:

[Axe]

Oof slutty projecting hysterically once again to prove her hypocrisy and utter lack of self-awareness. Yikes.

[Baller789]

Incel alert. Incel alert. Incel alert.

:lol

[Axe]

waaah i'm still asshurt by him waaah ! ! !
Go kill yourself then, slutty. :cheers:

[Baller789]

Axe doesnt even know what a $lu+ is. He's a vrigin. :(

He just found it on the internet. Poor incel.

[Axe]

Pass the meth. You are much worse than an incel after you lied about having a life outside this forum, slutty. It's crystal clear nothing's changed about your lunatic behavior since you joined this board two years ago.

[3ba11]

.

2020 Playoffs

Jamal Murray........ 27/5/7 on 63 TS
Nikola Jokic.......... 24/9/6 on 61 TS


By failing to win with Murray, Jokic couldn't elevate him to media accolade like MJ did for Pippen..

Pippen made All-NBA in Year 5 - this was in 92' after winning in 91' - Murray could've followed this same path by making All-NBA in Year 5 (21') after winning in 20'.

Pippen was simply elevated by playing with someone that was good enough to win with his secondary level of production.. Otherwise, he's literally the most overrated player ever - he's the only secondary producer in history that ranks so highly, due to unprecedented winning spotlight (6/6)

[ShawkFactory]

Magic/Worthy in the 1991 finals combined: 37/14/12 on 55 TS%, 31.0 total game score

Lebron and AD in the 2020 WCF combined: 58/17/12 on on 64 TS%, 48.5 total game score

Looks like Joker saw some significantly stiffer competition than did Jordan in 91.

[3ba11]

Magic/Worthy in the 1991 finals combined: 37/14/12 on 55 TS%, 31.0 total game score

Lebron and AD in the 2020 WCF combined: 58/17/12 on on 64 TS%, 48.5 total game score

Looks like Joker saw some significantly stiffer competition than did Jordan in 91.


False argument.. Jordan toppled a goat dynasty in the ECF, while the 91' Lakers had a deeper cast than the 20' Lakers - this includes 4 guys getting Pippen production in the Finals (17+ ppg).. So Magic's deep cast outplayed the Bulls, hence Jordan needing goat stats to win - this includes 31/7/11 on 56% and no turnovers against maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load in Finals).. Jokic would've easily have won if he dominated like this.

In addition to facing worse teams than Jordan, Jokic had more help than Jordan (see previous stats).. Btw, Jordan also personally contained Isiah and Magic in those series and others (he was primary defender on them).

So again - by failing to win with Murray, Jokic couldn't elevate him to media accolade like MJ did for Pippen... Jordan simply elevated Pippen by winning with him, otherwise Pippen would be perceived as Iggy or Wiggins (about 150th all-time)

[ShawkFactory]

False argument..

So you’re the only one who gets to:

- compare numbers across eras without context

- make the “star + sidekick = team” argument

You’ve done both literally within the last 4 posts but don’t seem to allow it to go the other way :lol

[3ba11]

So you’re the only one who gets to:

- compare numbers across eras without context

- make the “star + sidekick = team” argument

You’ve done both literally within the last 4 posts but don’t seem to allow it to go the other way :lol


Murray had higher gamescore against the Lakers than any of Pippen's Finals, but Jokic couldn't win with this superior help because he couldn't dominate like Jordan (18 vs 30 gamescore).

If Jokic had a 30 gamescore like Jordan, this would make the Lakers work harder and wear then down, thus taking away from their own capacity for production/gamescore.. Jokic simply couldn't impose his will, while Jordan did and won (thus elevating Pippen to media accolade the following year)

[ShawkFactory]

Murray had higher gamescore against the Lakers than any of Pippen's Finals, but Jokic couldn't win with this superior help because he couldn't dominate like Jordan (18 vs 30 gamescore).

If Jokic had a 30 gamescore like Jordan, this would make the Lakers work harder and wear then down, thus taking away from their own capacity for production/gamescore.. Jokic simply couldn't impose his will, while Jordan did and won (thus elevating Pippen to media accolade the following year)

Okay gotcha. Well that settles the age-old Jokic vs Jordan debate.

[3ba11]

Okay gotcha. Well that settles the age-old Jokic vs Jordan debate.


Indeed and it also confirms that Jordan elevated Pippen to media accolade by winning with him, while Joker couldn't do the same with Murray...

Ultimately, the historical record shows that unprecedented winning spotlight inflated an Iggy or Wiggins-caliber performer into all-time status

[Baller789]

Pass the meth. You are much worse than an incel after you lied about having a life outside this forum, slutty. It's crystal clear nothing's changed about your lunatic behavior since you joined this board two years ago.
Says the incel who checks the forum every hour.

What a loser :oldlol:

[Axe]

27 hours later and the biggest slut itb is still not finished melting down. Miserable life of a 4chan troll. :lol

[Baller789]

Less than an hour... Thank you for proving my point basement dweller.

[Axe]

She's just getting more desperate with each passing day, guys.

[Baller789]

Still needs to checkin ever so often equals no social life. Poor guy.


Thats why Axe is a virgin fatty.

[Axe]

Let's see..

Goes on hiatus for more than a day.

Still bumps this thread days later to show everyone she couldn't ignore me at all. :confusedshrug:

Yep, what an utter retard. So pathetic. :oldlol:

[Baller789]

Lets see, thread gets bumped after a few days yet the incel replied within a few hours as if he has nothing else to do with his sad excuse for a life and shows he can't ignore me at all. :confusedshrug:

What a hypocritic moron. :roll:

[Axe]

Horny ass sucker was completely unaware she's responsible for derailing this thread with something irrelevant below. :confusedshrug:
vvv

The incel has spoken.

:bowdown:

Lol go back to flirting at grindr, idiot. 💩💩💩

[Baller789]

Axe you are adorable. Talking about things you know very little about since you don't go out of the basement nor take daily showers. :lol

[Axe]

Still couldn't get my point because she's too fixated on me. :cry: :roll:

[Baller789]

Hard to not be fixated on the stinky fatty. :oldlol:

[Axe]

I wonder how many pages she's going to keep her meltdowns on, hmmm...

[Baller789]

As long as I enjoy laughing at the dork in this thread sweetie. :lol

[Axe]

So freaking easy to make my bitch bark like a lunatic lol.

[Baller789]

You couldnt even get laid much less make other people bark. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Yet she's still yapping to prove my point rofl

[Baller789]

Yet Axe still has to cease to be an incel. :lol

Which is waaaaay worse. :roll:

[Axe]

Good girl, can't stop barking at my command.

Now bark again, my bitch.

[Baller789]

You couldnt command anything champ. Not even your limp micro Venis :lol

[Axe]

Damn, what a piece of cake.

Please bark again, insecure biatch. Thank you.

[hateraid]

Yet she's still yapping to prove my point rofl

The ease you get your dog's to bark on command lol

[Baller789]

And the alt is back. You needed the backup fatboy?

:roll:

[Axe]

The ease you get your dog's to bark on command lol
Lmao i didn't realize i've got crazy bitches create accounts here fully dedicated to stalking me while making them bark like a fool. For instance the horny **** sucker above me. :oldlol:

[Baller789]

Poor Axe, still obsessively checking and replying to this thread within the hour.

He has nothing better to do obviously. :lol

Loser alert.

[Axe]

Lmao like i said she can't stop yapping.

[hateraid]

Lmao i didn't realize i've got crazy bitches create accounts here fully dedicated to stalking me while making them bark like a fool. For instance the horny **** sucker above me. :oldlol:

Lol, and he just called me a alt lolol. Posters like baller and full court just can't help themselves. Their need for the last post is their only life line. They should be screened for narcissism. The mentally ill type. But keep it up!

[Baller789]

Yup. Usernames with gigantic post counts and seemingly no social life outside this forum.


Sounds legit. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Lol, and he just called me a alt lolol. Posters like baller and full court just can't help themselves. Their need for the last post is their only life line. They should be screened for narcissism. The mentally ill type. But keep it up!
Accurate af. They're the deepthroat couple who both met at grindr and had sex with each other. Then they've become so busy barking at random posters here because they are useless sissies who sorely lack self-awareness.

[Baller789]

An incel talking about self awareness.

Oh Axey, so innocent in the ways of the real world. :oldlol:

[Axe]

And the bitch barks again because she couldn't get my point. As well as trying to deflect so desperately. ;)

[Baller789]

You can't even get b!tch3s you virgin dork :roll:

[Axe]

All these stupid projections she makes just because she can't stop bleeding so hard about me in the last five pages of this thread lol.

[Baller789]

You know my 10 year old nephew can make better insults than Axe. :oldlol:

[Axe]

Lmao she's still yapping desperately to wholly confirm my point.

[Baller789]

ahahahahaha!

Whatever floats your boat Axe.

[Axe]

She just can't quit barking like a bitch i see.

[hateraid]

Yup. Usernames with gigantic post counts and seemingly no social life outside this forum.


Sounds legit. :oldlol:

Bbbbbbut longevity! Jordan did it in less time!!

18000 in 16 years
V
4000 in 2 in 2 years

Who has a higher post count?

Use your Jordan logic dummy

I'm on here way less than you. Who has a life?

Lolol

[bison]

Saying pippan was ever mvp caliber is such an extremist statement. Such extreme hate speech does not belong on a public forum

[Baller789]

Bbbbbbut longevity! Jordan did it in less time!!

18000 in 16 years
V
4000 in 2 in 2 years

Who has a higher post count?

Use your Jordan logic dummy

I'm on here way less than you. Who has a life?

Lolol

16 years vs 2 years. :roll:

You tell me.

[3ba11]

.
THE CONSENSUS ON PIPPEN


:whatever: <--------- that's what Isiah Thomas' thinks about Pippen and says here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nBRe4uA9s&t=02m40s


Here's Isiah stating EMPHATICALLY that the 93' Bulls were a 1-man team:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w&t=01m34s


COLIN COWHERD

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=04m19s



BILL LAIMBEER:



"We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordanaires. And you can't win championships like that, with only one player."."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-jordan-rules-what-the-last-dance-documentary-doesnt-say-about-pistons-defense-against-michael-jordan/amp/



SHAQ TALKING ABOUT PIPPEN:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif



"I don't let bums (https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2533220-shaquille-oneal-sounds-off-on-scottie-pippen-while-explaining-instagram-feud.amp.html) disrespect me..."

"Don't make me pull up the scouting report. You wasn't even a factor on the scouting report. It was all about Mike."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2533220-shaquille-oneal-sounds-off-on-scottie-pippen-while-explaining-instagram-feud.amp.html

"You did okay, but MJ did most of the work"

"yes THE GREAT MICHAEL JORDAN GOT YOU SIX RINGS , but you will always be remembered as MR 2nd FIDDLE."

"See what happens when Michael Jordan ain't protecting you, you lose a 17 pt lead in the fourth quarter." (referring to 2000 WCF Game 7)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/nba-star-shaquille-oneal-slams-scotty-pippin-in-social-media-squabble/amp/



JERRY KRAUSE, BULLS GM:


“Would Pippen have been great someplace else?

Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him... No, Michael made him a man.

Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And he - Collins - had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5453558



CHUCK DALY:


"It doesn't entail me playing you necessarily... it's our 5.... playing... you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gCMWuCdsGQ&t=27m41s

[hateraid]

16 years vs 2 years. :roll:

You tell me.

So by your conclusion Lebron is better than Jordan. Got it

[Baller789]

So by your conclusion Lebron is better than Jordan. Got it

Hey you said that not me.

And you just contradicted your self trying to be right. :roll:

[hateraid]

Hey you said that not me.

And you just contradicted your self trying to be right. :roll:

Your conclusion. I'm just referencing you. You're not very bright are you?

[TheGoatest]

So by your conclusion Lebron is better than Jordan. Got it

https://media.tenor.com/A0REOBRcXzcAAAAC/black-boy-reaction.gif

[Baller789]

Your conclusion. I'm just referencing you. You're not very bright are you?


https://media.tenor.com/A0REOBRcXzcAAAAC/black-boy-reaction.gif

Exhibit A on how your mental gymnastics backfire :roll:

[hateraid]

Exhibit A on how your mental gymnastics backfire :roll:

So longevity > average

Got it.

Lebron better than Jordan according to you

[Full Court]

:roll: ^What a dingus.

[FultzNationRISE]

:lebronamazed:

[3ba11]

The highlights are mostly transition dunking because Pippen was useless in tight halfcourt sets - he simply wasn't a franchise player and any team with him as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty like we saw in 1995

[ImKobe]

The highlights are mostly transition dunking because Pippen was useless in tight halfcourt sets - he simply wasn't a franchise player and any team with him as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty like we saw in 1995

It's why he couldn't up his scoring against the Knicks as the #1 option in '94. He scored more ppg and on better percentages as a #2 to MJ against that Knicks team the year before. He struggled even though his all-star teammates were really efficient in that series (BJ and Grant both averaged 16.7 ppg on 60+%TS in the series).