Anyone watch the Nets/Bucks game tonight?

[Kblaze8855]

Nets chemistry looking pretty pretty good early….

There are some nice ball movement highlights and Ben finding people everywhere.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If they stay healthy they should dominate the regular season. It's the playoffs where Simmons has had his embarrassing performances.

[Kblaze8855]

Always been overblown to me. He’s one of those guys people simply will not accept isn’t going to try to score. Or maybe they will eventually. When Stockton has 9, 4, 11, 7, 7, and 4 points in 6 straight playoff games as they get eliminated or 9, 2, 7, and 6 we don’t really consider it embarrassing or shocking. Or Rondo having 7 and 6 back to back in his prime. Or Kidd having 1…or 4…it’s just…them doing other things and playing a way we expect them to.

Ben being built like a Lebron or Giannis type minus a scoop or two of mutant powers doesn’t mean he can’t be one of those guys who just isn’t looking to score and dedicates himself to other things. He’s a better defensive Grant Hill if he swapped minds with young Kidd or someone like that. One of those godly wing bodies with a mind that just isn’t trying to play that way.

Not the most extreme version we have seen. Wilt could drop 60 at will when he was a Laker and would play 48 minutes and take two shots.

Some guys just decide scoring isn’t the priority. How long do we keep being let down when they don’t do it?

We gonna watch Ben pass up shots for 13 years and still be appalled when he kicks a layup out for a 3?

[Lee]

I watched some parts. Its preseason still.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Would've won championship if Ben was healthy last season.

People saying Durant is cancer is quite literally the fakes news in sports history. It's laughably inaccurate.

Nets look fantastic.

[Lee]

Would've won championship if Ben was healthy last season.

People saying Durant is cancer is quite literally the fakes news in sports history. It's laughably inaccurate.

Nets look fantastic.

I doubt if BEN played they would have won it all. Dont think of Ben that x-factor.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive been watching a lot of the clips coming out of their games and one thing is clear…they are getting sets in place to punish the people sagging off him. Using him almost like the guards on Dallas getting Dirk looks with down screens.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BlackJitteryAustraliancurlew-size_restricted.gif



KD and Kyrie gonna feast.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I doubt if BEN played they would have won it all. Dont think of Ben that x-factor.

Ben's defense and playmaking on a team full of shooters is absolutely a game changer.

2023 Champs.

[Kblaze8855]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PleasedSoftDouglasfirbarkbeetle-size_restricted.gif

[AlternativeAcc.]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PleasedSoftDouglasfirbarkbeetle-size_restricted.gif

It's over ladies and gentlemen!!!!!!

[Kblaze8855]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaiveOccasionalGangesdolphin-size_restricted.gif

[AlternativeAcc.]

I said all last season Ben was a perfect fit for the Nets


Low IQs like RMWG are skeptical... but thats a guy who was buying Lamar Jackson hype 2 weeks ago. Painfully low IQ

[red1]

I didnt watch the game but I checked the forum so I'm posting in your thread


the nets are going to be the best regular season team in the east this year hands down.





it wont even be close. they all have too much too prove and too much talent. sixers will have a great record too but the nets will have the best record.



if it comes down to a series this year I would probably still put my money on the bucks. giannis is going to be a menace this year and they have a well-balanced team.




champs this year will be the bucks or nets.


if its a team from the west it will be the lakers or warriors.

[TheGoatest]

Ben's defense and playmaking on a team full of shooters is absolutely a game changer.

2023 Champs.

Yes, Ben Simmons will definitely be the difference from "swept in the 1st round" to "NBA champions". With Durant aging from 33 to 34, no less. :roll:

[red1]

Yes, Ben Simmons will definitely be the difference from "swept in the 1st round" to "NBA champions". With Durant aging from 33 to 34, no less. :roll:

they were the best team in the east last year and led all year.... before the trade and before their stars shit the bed....


last year wasn't just an L for the nets... good chance the bucks would have their second ring if they were fully healthy a few months ago...



I think giannis jrue and middleton is enough to take out the warriors from last year...

[Manny98]

Scary Hours...

Simmons locking down Giannis last night was a sight to see :applause:

Going to be a rough year for the Nets haters :oldlol:

[Manny98]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaiveOccasionalGangesdolphin-size_restricted.gif

:bowdown:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Always been overblown to me. He’s one of those guys people simply will not accept isn’t going to try to score. Or maybe they will eventually. When Stockton has 9, 4, 11, 7, 7, and 4 points in 6 straight playoff games as they get eliminated or 9, 2, 7, and 6 we don’t really consider it embarrassing or shocking. Or Rondo having 7 and 6 back to back in his prime. Or Kidd having 1…or 4…it’s just…them doing other things and playing a way we expect them to.

Ben being built like a Lebron or Giannis type minus a scoop or two of mutant powers doesn’t mean he can’t be one of those guys who just isn’t looking to score and dedicates himself to other things. He’s a better defensive Grant Hill if he swapped minds with young Kidd or someone like that. One of those godly wing bodies with a mind that just isn’t trying to play that way.

Not the most extreme version we have seen. Wilt could drop 60 at will when he was a Laker and would play 48 minutes and take two shots.

Some guys just decide scoring isn’t the priority. How long do we keep being let down when they don’t do it?

We gonna watch Ben pass up shots for 13 years and still be appalled when he kicks a layup out for a 3?
There is a difference between a guy that doesn't score much but can hit shots and a guy that that is scared to shoot. The problem with Simmons is that he is the latter. Comparing him to Stockton is way off because whether he took the shot or not Stockton was a threat that teams had to respect. Multiple seasons where he hit well over 40% of his threes. There's just no comparing that to what we see from Simmons. Kidd and Rondo are a bit better cases to examine but both of those guys took their issues as shooters on and would take the shot even though it wasn't their strength. Kidd eventually even became a good shooter and Rondo at least became respectable. Simmons is different because he just won't take jumpers. It's a refusal most likely based on both his lack of skill as well as mental issues. But that is a problem that we have seen teams take advantage of in the postseason. You really think Kidd or Rondo pass up a wide open dunk like we saw from Simmons? That either of those guys could be 6'10 and still only have a 1 point playoff game? His failures have been extreme and absolutely been the reason why Philly lost.

I don't know for sure what happens with his mental health of course. Maybe the issues have been permanently addressed. But I currently have no faith in this dude. The way he missed last season is really one of the most disgraceful things we've ever seen from a pro athlete that didn't break the law. Would you want to rely on someone with the issues he's shown?

[Kblaze8855]

There is a difference between a guy that doesn't score much but can hit shots and a guy that that is scared to shoot. The problem with Simmons is that he is the latter. Comparing him to Stockton is way off because whether he took the shot or not Stockton was a threat that teams had to respect. Multiple seasons where he hit well over 40% of his threes. There's just no comparing that to what we see from Simmons.


Being a good shooter and scoring 4 on 5 shots while your team loses is probably worse actually. If you’re both scoring 10-12 a game the one lacking scoring skills is obviously more understandable.





Kidd and Rondo are a bit better cases to examine but both of those guys took their issues as shooters on and would take the shot even though it wasn't their strength. Kidd eventually even became a good shooter and Rondo at least became respectable. Simmons is different because he just won't take jumpers. It's a refusal most likely based on both his lack of skill as well as mental issues.


Know how many threes Rondo made in his peak outside shooting season of his first 7 years? Talking prime Rondo. Up until his final all star season.

17. That’s the most. He made 5 when they won the title.

I somehow doubt the willingness to miss occasionally or make one open 3 a month made teams respect his jumper. He became a much much worse player when his jumper arrived in fact. 5 threes a season Rondo was much more effective than the guy who developed a reasonable outside shot. Shooting isn’t basketball that just the way we have been conditioned to see it.

And when I’ve watched Kidd simply not care about shooting on his way to 1-4 point playoff games yes I’m fairly sure he could not care if he were he a little taller. Much much better players than Ben Simmons have decided not to score. Quite a few have been stars. Some are in the hall of fame.

Im just wondering at what point we stop hyperventilating when someone who doesn’t score doesn’t score.






But that is a problem that we have seen teams take advantage of in the postseason. You really think Kidd or Rondo pass up a wide open dunk like we saw from Simmons? That either of those guys could be 6'10 and still only have a 1 point playoff game? His failures have been extreme and absolutely been the reason why Philly lost.


Nah. Only a simple narrative for simple tv breakdowns for short attention span fans who have to be kept in place for commercial breaks.

When someone goes 8-25 and your best player has 8 turnovers and you lose close it’s pretty hard to say one other person is the reason you lose. Everyone is the reason they lost. Everyone is always the reason every team loses. We just aren’t wired to acknowledge it because by nature sports fans are petty haters looking to place blame with laser focus.

People aren’t the whole reason their teams lose even when they miss the actual game winning attempt. But being reasonable is seen as excuse making in the era of the hot take.

Ben lost on a good team just like guys who gun away lose on good teams. They swapped him out for a guy who has been the premier chucker of his time and lost anyway. None of this is as simple as emotion and hot take culture makes it seem.


It’s probably easier to take advantage of a guy who doesn’t play defense than it is a guy who doesn’t take shots but can facilitate the scoring of others.

The nets would probably be a worse team if they had Pistol Pete right now than Ben Simmons but when they lost with Pete scoring 26 with 4 assists and giving up 39 shallow minded fans wouldn’t be as upset as they would be when they lose with Ben scoring seven with 11 assists and giving up 16.

We are mesmerized both by hate and the easy story. You think it through it’s hard to blame anybody for losing as much as society chooses to blame the scapegoat of the day.

[Manny98]

It would be nice if Simmons can hit a jump shot every now and then and hit free throws at a decent percentage

But who cares, he still impacts the game on both ends of the floor and helps the Nets offense with his elite playmaking and slashing ability

[Real Men Wear Green]

Being a good shooter and scoring 4 on 5 shots while your team loses is probably worse actually. If you’re both scoring 10-12 a game the one lacking scoring skills is obviously more understandable.Ypu are ignoring the effect on the overall offense. If Stockton is in the corner and Malone is posting up Stocktons man has it in his mind he has to stay close enough to Stockton to contest three on a kick-out, creating space for Malone. Irving is attacking the basket and Simmons is anywhere outside of the paint the opposing defense will ignore Simmons completely. Stockton was a highly intelligent player. Locked in to the old-school approach to playing point guard yes, but it was absolutely effective. So we can speculate that Utah would have done more if Stockton took 15 shots per game but it's not like he demonstrably hurt his team. Simmons' shooting absolutely hurt Philly in decisive playoff games.


Know how many threes Rondo made in his peak outside shooting season of his first 7 years? Talking prime Rondo. Up until his final all star season.

17. That’s the most. He made 5 when they won the title.

I somehow doubt the willingness to miss occasionally or make one open 3 a month made teams respect his jumper. He became a much much worse player when his jumper arrived in fact. 5 threes a season Rondo was much more effective than the guy who developed a reasonable outside shot. Shooting isn’t basketball that just the way we have been conditioned to see it.This part isn't me saying that missed shots are wonderful it's about the fact that I don't see what if anything Simmons is doing to address his shooting issues. Rondo being a hypercompetitive guy didnt want to go down in history as the worst shooting pg in history so he made himself at least competent. There is still no sign of growth in that regard with Simmons. He is at least willing to play again so kudos for that but the next time the Nets lose a game and Simmons misses a crucial free throw will he refuse to play again if Nash gives a postgame reporter an honest answer? This is the aspect to Simmons' issues that is really unacceptable.


And when I’ve watched Kidd simply not care about shooting on his way to 1-4 point playoff games yes I’m fairly sure he could not care if he were he a little taller. Much much better players than Ben Simmons have decided not to score. Quite a few have been stars. Some are in the hall of fame.6 inches isn't just a little bit of height. Being a pass-first pg is generally fine but Simmons truly let Philly down with his performances and even if he can't shoot at all find a way to score some points if your team needs it. Kidd is absolutely not going to fail to try and find a way to help if it is obvious his team needs it. You saw the passed-up dunk. Who else in NBA history does that? I can't think of anyone.


Nah. Only a simple narrative for simple tv breakdowns for short attention span fans who have to be kept in place for commercial breaks.

When someone goes 8-25 and your best player has 8 turnovers and you lose close it’s pretty hard to say one other person is the reason you lose. Everyone is the reason they lost. Everyone is always the reason every team loses. We just aren’t wired to acknowledge it because by nature sports fans are petty haters looking to place blame with laser focus.

People aren’t the whole reason their teams lose even when they miss the actual game winning attempt. But being reasonable is seen as excuse making in the era of the hot take.I concede it's an exagerration to say he's the only reason but he deserves more blame than anyone else. His limitations effect everything. You can't defend Embiid the same way if Simmons is a threat from the perimeter or at least respectable. In the regular season opposing defenses aren't as thoughtfully crafted to exploit his issues but in the playoffs where you might face the same opponent 7 times it's different. You dont see the massive problem his nonshooting has created on multiple occasions?


Ben lost on a good team just like guys who gun away lose on good teams. They swapped him out for a guy who has been the premier chucker of his time and lost anyway. None of this is as simple as emotion and hot take culture makes it seem.


It’s probably easier to take advantage of a guy who doesn’t play defense than it is a guy who doesn’t take shots but can facilitate the scoring of others.A flaw is a flaw. When its major and not being dealt with at all someone will take advantage of it eventually be it on offense or on defense. I prefer the strong defender/bad shooter to his opposite but Simmons has mental issues that make him different from a guy like Jason Kidd. I just can't think of anyone else that missed a whole season because his coach expressed some level of doubt. It's too soft. Kidd, Rondo, Snow, etc. may get pissed off when they heard criticism but they weren't soft like this.

[FultzNationRISE]

Preseason is not exactly where you expect a trio of Simmons, Durant, and Irving to struggle. They're playing no-pressure playground ball. Talent is not the weakness for this core.

Let's wait until theres some adversity.

Then we'll find out what's what.

[Kblaze8855]

I see The problem that everybody’s worst aspect creates for their team. The problem is fans are so conditioned to do nothing but remember shooting and scoring they overdramatize everything related to it and disregard the hundred reasons people can and have lost games.

Ben doesn’t shoot so it’s said they lose because teams take advantage of that hole. But apparently the 28 other points who will shoot…and lost…don’t give these people a clue about how complicated winning and losing is. You talk about his not taking a layup late. Bad. Obviously.

Any more of a mental lapse than say…walking away from maybe the best clutch shooting specialist in history with the finals on the line? This is every bit as dumb…if not worse….


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MasculineInfamousFox-size_restricted.gif



Might be worse. Cost game 5 of the finals they lost in 7. It doesn’t offend as much because people aren’t wired to give a shit.

I went back and watched some of the defense the Knicks played on Reggie when I heard it discussed on a podcast I listen to. The famous 25 point fourth quarter.

The Knicks at one point while Reggie is running wild collapsed into the paint to double Dale Davis being guarded man to man in the post by Anthony Mason. Left Reggie wiiiiiiide open for 3.

You stroll away from a goat tier shooter having the hottest streak of his life to double Dale Davis in the post guarded by one of the toughest post defenders alive?

Absolutely ****ing stupid.


Nobody knows it happened.

For the most part fans don’t watch basketball. Fans watch the basketball which is an important distinction.

For all the hate it gets passing up a layup costs your team no more than misreading a screen on the other end but when one happens it leads sports center and the other is shown only in highlights of the guy who got a layup on the other end because none of this is about actual impact of decisions. It’s about appearances to people who aren’t willing to look past the obvious.

Theres a reason guys like Ben, Draymond, Rodman, Kidd when he got old and many others are so much more highly regarded by coaches and basketball people than by fans. Fans have no idea what they’re seeing and even some who do speak from places of emotion not logic.

Is it more annoying to see a guy pass up a shot than to **** up a switch and leave his man unguarded to lose the game?

It really might be. But the scoreboard doesn’t know the difference.

We watch 180 trips down the court with 300 decisions on defense and offense, 200 box outs, 68 great contests, 39 brain farts, 6 mild injuries, 26 passes to open shooters, 9 blocks, 7 steals, 4 travels and a final score of 116-112 and decide the one play we remember is the only thing to talk about.

Games are won and lost a dozen ways. All at once. I watched Reggie lose the pacers a game not boxing out Scottie Pippen then read 20 years later on here about how he always came through.

Everything that is not scoring gets lost to time because stops or boxing out or merely directing traffic aren’t sexy to casual fans.

So we talk for a year about a bad decision not to shoot but don’t talk for 10 minutes about a bonehead turnover costing a finals game.

It is what it is I suppose…but we really should know better by now. Places like this are supposed to be where the so-called real fans are but most of us evaluate basketball like eight year olds.

[Kblaze8855]

Let me put it lot more simply. Does Ben Simmons often at like a hoe with the ball in his hands and not take advantage of his physical gifts? Yes. But does being an occasional hoe at one thing while being good to elite at literally everything else make you a bad or even average player just because casual fans struggle to acknowledge anything else being important? No.

You can be both a hoe and good.

[Wally450]

Nets will be fine during the regular season until the playoff when Ben becomes unplayable like he has each time the Sixers made the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

Nets will be fine during the regular season until the playoff when Ben becomes unplayable like he has each time the Sixers made the playoffs.


Unplayable in that “Plays 35 minutes a game in the playoffs like always because almost every coach cares more about defense than shooting” kinda way maybe.

if clueless fans had their way he would get benched for curry as they would just lose a different way. Imagine if he had been out there doing his traditional not shooting while they got swept with KD and Kyrie like happened last year. Every supposed basketball expert fan would be telling me he’s the reason they lost and that my claim they could easily have lost anyway was ridiculous. Just wait. When they lose this year he’s going to be entirely responsible while those people pretend last year didn’t happen.

It will be one of the funnier “alternate universe thing actually happens” events in recent memory and no wisdom at all will be gained.

[Jasper]

I am not holding judgement over one game , and nether are the Bucks in their 0-5 pre season.

Just takes time for defenses to catch up(.)

[Kblaze8855]

All they said…the greatest hoes in history:


Dwight Howard
Ben Simmons
Rick Barry for what he did in the 76 playoffs which nobody cares about
Bill Laimbeer(though a worse player than the rest a much bigger hoe to make up for it)
Elvin Hayes
Pippen that one time
Shaq when he implied he wouldn’t play D if he didn’t get the ball
James Harden


Who else?

[FultzNationRISE]

Let me put it lot more simply. Does Ben Simmons often at like a hoe with the ball in his hands and not take advantage of his physical gifts? Yes. But does being an occasional hoe at one thing while being good to elite at literally everything else make you a bad or even average player just because casual fans struggle to acknowledge anything else being important? No.

You can be both a hoe and good.

This is all true, and I personally dont discount the Nets outright just as I didnt when it was Harden, Irving, and Durant.

However I did caution many people who immediately crowned the original “big three” not to underestimate the extent to which lack of maturity and leadership limits teams.

Simmons is replacing James Harden who was an MVP talent. That “unstoppable threesome” ended in disaster because theyre all mental softies.

So talent isnt the point. Simmons is also a mental softy. There is zero doubt this team will underperform relative to talent, bc of mental limitations. Best they can hope for is that theyre a dynasty caliber team, who will get lucky and hold it together long enough for one chip (with zero realistic chance of repeating).

We know who these guys are. Theyre not Tim Duncan, Lebron James type pillars of professional stability. Theyre the opposite. Looking at their talent alone is not a good way to predict their success.

Taking the whole picture in there is ample reason to be skeptical.

[Stephonit]

I'm just about ready to pencil in a Warriors-Nets finals—and it will be epic and glorious!

[Manny98]

I'm just about ready to pencil in a Warriors-Nets finals—and it will be epic and glorious!

Yep looking forward to it :cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

This is all true, and I personally dont discount the Nets outright just as I didnt when it was Harden, Irving, and Durant.

However I did caution many people who immediately crowned the original “big three” not to underestimate the extent to which lack of maturity and leadership limits teams.

Simmons is replacing James Harden who was an MVP talent. That “unstoppable threesome” ended in disaster because theyre all mental softies.

So talent isnt the point. Simmons is also a mental softy. There is zero doubt this team will underperform relative to talent, bc of mental limitations. Best they can hope for is that theyre a dynasty caliber team, who will get lucky and hold it together long enough for one chip (with zero realistic chance of repeating).

We know who these guys are. Theyre not Tim Duncan, Lebron James type pillars of professional stability. Theyre the opposite. Looking at their talent alone is not a good way to predict their success.

Taking the whole picture in there is ample reason to be skeptical.

I realize that you can’t acknowledge it because of how dedicated you are to the troll game but LeBron dabbles a little bit in hoe behavior himself. He doesn’t get all the way in but he dips a toe in the hoe.

[FultzNationRISE]

I realize that you can’t acknowledge it because of how dedicated you are to the troll game but LeBron dabbles a little bit in hoe behavior himself. He doesn’t get all the way in but he dips a toe in the hoe.


In other words you would like to step into my office right now, is that it?

[ArbitraryWater]

im scared

[Chuckbe]

Scary Hours...

Simmons locking down Giannis last night was a sight to see :applause:

Going to be a rough year for the Nets haters :oldlol:

wot abat wen jannis dunked on im?

[Manny98]

wot abat wen jannis dunked on im?

And Giannis shot 6/21 last night, Simmons had him on clamps :applause: