What are the ceiling and floor all-time rankings for Curry?

[dankok8]

I personally have him at #12 all-time but I can see the argument over everyone not in the GOAT tier.

On the other end of the spectrum I can see him under a lot of guys if we emphasize durability and longevity.

[warriorfan]

GOAT and #10

[WhiteKyrie]

GOAT and #10

Lol stop.

Mike
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Shaq

#8 - #10 - Ceiling Area

In discussion with the Kobe, Duncan and Hakeem tier.

#15 - Floor Area

[bison]

GOAT and #10

The King With the Big Thing, King Dingo.

[warriorfan]

The King With the Big Thing, King Dingo.

the kang swanging his big thang all over these salty ho’s

chef mandingo.

[bison]

the kang swanging his big thang all over these salty ho’s

chef mandingo.

Dropping loads of buckets on the court, and dropping buckets of loads off the court. The King of Swing, Mr. Mandingo Curry.

[warriorfan]

Chef Mandingo and Klay Johnson splash bros and big kumbuckets filling them up big time

[Hey Yo]

15 out of a possible 66 FMVP votes.


:whatever:

[Axe]

Chef Mandingo and Klay Johnson splash bros and big kumbuckets filling them up big time
🤔🤔🤔

[3ba11]

.
if he wins 2 more titles, his ceiling is #1

he checks all the boxes:



- quality of rings - won numerous rings without super-teams and without "1b" sidekicks that achieve elite production, while also defeating maximum defensive attention (carried the scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title runs)

- organic capability - ball-dominators impose spot-up roles that stall young players, whereas Curry's skillset promotes ball movement and therefore has the teammate development, fits, and brand of ball to win organically

- can defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load) and therefore win with less - unlike ball-dominators that lack sufficient brand of ball to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams, Curry maintains brand of ball at carry-job volumes (ball movement), so he can carry the scoring load against top teams and win with secondary producers like Wiggins or Klay.

- coachable - his elite on-ball and off-ball game fits with any teammate or system (coachable), so the team can employ the best brand of ball and have the best team ceilings/Finals records (the best teams)

- changed the game - goat era impact (3ball)

[HoopsNY]

I commented on someone's post recently where I believe that he really is tough to rank. Even if KD doesn't join the Warriors in 2017, there's no guarantee that they don't win in 2017 and 2018. 2018 is probably a given but 2017 would have been a dog fight like 2016. What happens if they win both years?

In the end, it's possible that Steph still has 4 titles without KD. And given the fact that he is responsible for changing the way the game is played entirely, and being the most impactful and biggest threat, you'd have to say he's the GOAT player of this era.

How many players are responsible for changing the game and were the biggest weapons offensively? MJ and Wilt come to mind. Wilt has 2 titles. Steph has 4. LeBron is clearly the better player but how much better or more impactful are Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, or Duncan?

Kareem has longevity and defense, but was he more impactful? Did he have a ring like Steph's 2022 title?

I honestly don't know where to place Steph, which is amazing because he was always and is an average at best defensive player. But if we rank Russell that high without offense, then why should Steph be slighted?

[3ba11]

I commented on someone's post recently where I believe that he really is tough to rank. Even if KD doesn't join the Warriors in 2017, there's no guarantee that they don't win in 2017 and 2018. 2018 is probably a given but 2017 would have been a dog fight like 2016. What happens if they win both years?

In the end, it's possible that Steph still has 4 titles without KD. And given the fact that he is responsible for changing the way the game is played entirely, and being the most impactful and biggest threat, you'd have to say he's the GOAT player of this era.

How many players are responsible for changing the game and were the biggest weapons offensively? MJ and Wilt come to mind. Wilt has 2 titles. Steph has 4. LeBron is clearly the better player but how much better or more impactful are Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, or Duncan?

Kareem has longevity and defense, but was he more impactful? Did he have a ring like Steph's 2022 title?

I honestly don't know where to place Steph, which is amazing because he was always and is an average at best defensive player. But if we rank Russell that high without offense, then why should Steph be slighted?


so curry's titles with durant don't count?

do you realize that durant broke lebron's collusion record, so lebron had the same advantage for 6 years before durant colluded?

lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16'), so he enjoyed the same unprecedented collusion advantage that Durant had, except for longer.

so it amazes me that curry's rings with durant don't count due to unprecedented collusion advantage, but Lebron's rings had the exact same unprecedented advantage (player-driven collusion and super-team formation)

[HoopsNY]

so curry's titles with durant don't count?

do you realize that durant broke lebron's collusion record, so lebron had the same advantage for 6 years before durant colluded?

lebron's "decision" locked down the league with 3 chips in 6 years and preseason favorite status for 6 straight years (11-16'), so he enjoyed the same unprecedented collusion advantage that Durant had, except for longer.

so it amazes me that curry's rings with durant don't count due to unprecedented collusion advantage, but Lebron's rings had the exact same unprecedented advantage

That wasn't my point. My point is that even if we were to discount the rings, then there is no guarantee that GS loses in 2017 and 2018.

As for LeBron; even if he doesn't collude in 2010, which resulted in at least 2 titles, there is no guarantee that Cleveland wouldn't have won it all or that they wouldn't have added a key piece to their team to allow them to overcome Boston in the Eastern Conference playoffs, and eventually win against Dallas or OKC.

It's all speculation, really. I think he wins at least 3 titles had he not colluded anyway.

[ShawkFactory]

I commented on someone's post recently where I believe that he really is tough to rank. Even if KD doesn't join the Warriors in 2017, there's no guarantee that they don't win in 2017 and 2018. 2018 is probably a given but 2017 would have been a dog fight like 2016. What happens if they win both years?

In the end, it's possible that Steph still has 4 titles without KD. And given the fact that he is responsible for changing the way the game is played entirely, and being the most impactful and biggest threat, you'd have to say he's the GOAT player of this era.

How many players are responsible for changing the game and were the biggest weapons offensively? MJ and Wilt come to mind. Wilt has 2 titles. Steph has 4. LeBron is clearly the better player but how much better or more impactful are Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, or Duncan?

Kareem has longevity and defense, but was he more impactful? Did he have a ring like Steph's 2022 title?

I honestly don't know where to place Steph, which is amazing because he was always and is an average at best defensive player. But if we rank Russell that high without offense, then why should Steph be slighted?

Why is 2018 a given? Obviously the Cavs were worse but it would be very tough for them to have gotten past the Rockets without KD.

[SouBeachTalents]

That wasn't my point. My point is that even if we were to discount the rings, then there is no guarantee that GS loses in 2017 and 2018.

As for LeBron; even if he doesn't collude in 2010, which resulted in at least 2 titles, there is no guarantee that Cleveland wouldn't have won it all or that they wouldn't have added a key piece to their team to allow them to overcome Boston in the Eastern Conference playoffs, and eventually win against Dallas or OKC.

It's all speculation, really. I think he wins at least 3 titles had he not colluded anyway.
With the Cavs? I think he'd be lucky to get 1 title a la Dirk in Dallas. It had been established by that point the Cavs front office was incapable of putting a legitimate championship caliber team together, no player wanted to go to Cleveland even to play with LeBron, and the Cavs most likely would've been a treadmill 55-60 win team, preventing them from ever having a high draft pick.

You can criticize him joining Wade & Bosh, but imo his ceiling with Cleveland was 1 title, and in this rang obsessed basketball culture, that was just not going to cut it historically, so I think he made the right decision in leaving Cleveland. Even if he managed to win the weak East a few times, he wasn't beating the likes of the Thunder/Spurs/Warriors without a better supporting cast.

[dankok8]

Honestly I think if KD never goes to the Warriors, they still beat the Cavs in 2017 and win the title. However they lose in the WCF in 2018 and the Rockets go on to win the title that year. 2019 onwards nothing really changes.

Lebron with the Cavs probably wins 1 ring at some point. They would make a 2-3 finals from 2010 onwards so he would get his shot. Then again it isn't impossible that he retires with zero rings if he never changes teams. The Cavs in 2010 were already an aging team with Jamison/Shaq and had few valuable assets or cap space to sign major free agents.

[TheGoatest]

Currently, he's in the lower end of the Olajuwon-Kobe-Moses Malone tier.
Ceiling is Bird-Shaq-Wilt tier.

[3ba11]

As for LeBron; even if he doesn't collude in 2010, which resulted in at least 2 titles, there is no guarantee that Cleveland wouldn't have won it all





of course - there was a 1-star, organic ring up for grabs in 2011 and Dirk grabbed it

it would've been lebron's, but he left a year before completing the organic learning curve

(teammate development, teammate fits, brand of ball/strategy, team identity).






added a key piece to their team to allow them to overcome Boston in the Eastern Conference playoffs





Nonsense - the old Celtics were already massive underdogs in 2010 - the only reason the Cavs lost that series was because Lebron averaged 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose a 2-1 lead..

He averaged 34 on 53% to get the lead, and then 21 on 34% to lose it - a complete meltdown and historic.. But instead of buckling down and grabbing the 1-star ring that was up for grabs in 2011, Dirk grabbed it after buckling down for 10 years..

Why do you ignore these facts?... The Cavs were a 7-year organic team by 2010 and had everything they needed to eventually win just like Dirk did with his 1-star team.






and eventually win against Dallas





If Lebron had stayed in Cleveland for 2011, they would've been the league favorite for the 3rd year running, while having the reputed defense and organic chemistry needed to beat Dallas - the Heat lacked these things (defense, chemistry).







It's all speculation, really. I think he wins at least 3 titles had he not colluded anyway.





Organic chemistry and a developed brand of ball should win more than 3 titles for a great player like Lebron - look at Duncan, Curry, Kobe and MJ - organic juggernauts that won 5+ titles each - BETTER BASKETBALL (brand of ball) WINS MORE WITH LESS... there's very little super-teams or 1b sidekicks among all those rings (some.. but not a lot).... So those guys learned to win (organic), while Lebron only learned to team-hop (talent-based winning).

[Stephonit]

Currently, he's in the lower end of the Olajuwon-Kobe-Moses Malone tier.
Ceiling is Bird-Shaq-Wilt tier.

No one ever explains why.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I mean, not particularly high. Maybe top 200 being as though he's a niche 3pt specialist whose career has been magnified due to luck/great rosters.

He's a niche guy. I don't rate him. He's not very good

[HylianNightmare]

8-13

[StrongLurk]

Let's just wait until his career is over. I will say I do NOT have him top ten all time right now.

[3ba11]

It had been established by that point the Cavs front office was incapable of putting a legitimate championship caliber team together





Lebron's skillset is impossible to build around - that's why he needs to collude for super-teams and all-star teams.

A GM must find the all-time scoring and shooting help that his skillset needs... Unfortunately, ball-dominators lack the brand of ball to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, AD, Wade and Kyrie.. In addition to needing goat scoring help, ball-dominators impose spot-up roles that stall young players, so they lack the teammate development, fits and brand to win organically.

It's a GM's nightmare.

In Lebron's case, GM's must literally pluck the top two 1st options from other teams in the conference and put them with Lebron (Wade/Bosh)... In addition to all-time scoring help (star help), Lebron's brand needs goat shooters like Allen, Korver, and many more..

In contrast, a GM's dream is having an assassin 1st option and expert jumpshooter that can carry the scoring load, thus allowing the GM to fill out the team with cheap defenders.. Obviously, this dream goes out the window with Lebron - a GM must build a literal super-team where the sidekick and 3rd option are infact franchise-carrying 1st options themselves and the remaining cast is littered with goat shooters like Allen, Korver, Miller, Green and more.

[HoopsNY]

Why is 2018 a given? Obviously the Cavs were worse but it would be very tough for them to have gotten past the Rockets without KD.

Good point; I forgot about them. Wasn't a given as you've rightly pointed out. I still feel they stood a chance to win seeing that they blew out Houston in game 6 with Durant shooting just 35%. Harden would have probably still choked game 7 away.

[HoopsNY]

With the Cavs? I think he'd be lucky to get 1 title a la Dirk in Dallas. It had been established by that point the Cavs front office was incapable of putting a legitimate championship caliber team together, no player wanted to go to Cleveland even to play with LeBron, and the Cavs most likely would've been a treadmill 55-60 win team, preventing them from ever having a high draft pick.

You can criticize him joining Wade & Bosh, but imo his ceiling with Cleveland was 1 title, and in this rang obsessed basketball culture, that was just not going to cut it historically, so I think he made the right decision in leaving Cleveland. Even if he managed to win the weak East a few times, he wasn't beating the likes of the Thunder/Spurs/Warriors without a better supporting cast.

That's still 1 title from 2011-2014, then 2016, and 2020. So 3 titles.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron's skillset is impossible to build around - that's why he needs to collude for super-teams and all-star teams.

A GM must find the all-time scoring and shooting help that his skillset needs... Unfortunately, ball-dominators lack the brand of ball to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams (too ball-dominant), so they need all-time scoring help like Kareem, AD, Wade and Kyrie.. In addition to needing goat scoring help, ball-dominators impose spot-up roles that stall young players, so they lack the teammate development, fits and brand to win organically.

It's a GM's nightmare.

In Lebron's case, GM's must literally pluck the top two 1st options from other teams in the conference and put them with Lebron (Wade/Bosh)... In addition to all-time scoring help (star help), Lebron's brand needs goat shooters like Allen, Korver, and many more..

In contrast, a GM's dream is having an assassin 1st option and expert jumpshooter that can carry the scoring load, thus allowing the GM to fill out the team with cheap defenders.. Obviously, this dream goes out the window with Lebron - a GM must build a literal super-team where the sidekick and 3rd option are infact franchise-carrying 1st options themselves and the remaining cast is littered with goat shooters like Allen, Korver, Miller, Green and more.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history&p=14582825&viewfull=1#post14582825

[3ba11]

When did Lebron learn good basketball like Curry?

When did Lebron learn to have a #1 offense or a ball movement team (high team assists), or when were his teams ever known to play the best brand of ball?

Lebron never learned the teammate development, fits and brand to win organically, so he never learned how to WIN (organic), and only learned how to team-hop.. Imagine Lebron on a team like the Warriors or Spurs - he would destroy them into NON-dynasties!!!!!... what a travesty that would be...

[SouBeachTalents]

That's still 1 title from 2011-2014, then 2016, and 2020. So 3 titles.
How are the Cavs drafting Kyrie if LeBron never leaves and they don't become the worst team in the league? That immediately takes 2016 off the table. There's simply way too many what if's to assume if he never leaves Cleveland in 2010 he still ends up in L.A. with AD a decade later.

[3ba11]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history&p=14582825&viewfull=1#post14582825


yes we know that Curry proved me wrong and that's why I put him in my top 5

if Lebron would prove me wrong, maybe I'd do the same with him.

it's funny how the light bulb went off with curry and i realized that he fulfilled my top 5 criteria (organic capability, aka great brand of ball.... and ability to defeat maximum defensive attention, aka carry scoring load on title run for playoffs and Finals)

[Stephonit]

Let's just wait until his career is over. I will say I do NOT have him top ten all time right now.

Again no explanation.

[Axe]

Let's just wait until his career is over. I will say I do NOT have him top ten all time right now.
Top 15 at best and that's being humble.

[SouBeachTalents]

yes we know that Curry proved me wrong and that's why I put him in my top 5

if Lebron would prove me wrong, maybe I'd do the same with him.

it's funny how the light bulb went off with curry and i realized that he fulfilled my top 5 criteria (organic capability, aka great brand of ball.... and ability to defeat maximum defensive attention, aka carry scoring load on title run for playoffs and Finals)
Nah, it's not that he proved you wrong, you literally didn't even know how Curry plays :lol Read those comments, you were getting called out by everyone, even tpols, for having no idea what you were talking about.

[3ba11]

Let's just wait until his career is over. I will say I do NOT have him top ten all time right now.


winning with secondary producers at sidekick (no 1b's) and no-super-teams in 2015 and 2022, while defeating maximum defensive attention (carrying scoring load)...

can you describe a superior ring quality than that?.. :confusedshrug:

how about changing an entire era or winning the most titles in an era.. or building a lottery team into champion TWICE and leading perennial losers like Wiggins to the title as 2nd best player.

the peak of most player's careers like 06' Wade or 94' Hakeem is when they defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run) - it's the toughest kind of ring and Curry has 2 rings like that... He's in the expert jumpshooter class that can carry the scoring load (otoh, ball-dominators lack brand of ball at carry-job volumes and need all-time scoring help to win)

[3ba11]

Nah, it's not that he proved you wrong, you literally didn't even know how Curry plays :lol Read those comments, you were getting called out by everyone, even tpols, for having no idea what you were talking about.


Everyone knew that he was a 3-point shooter and played off-ball, but I was blinded by the fact that he was abusing the 3-point line and turning the game into this spaced-out, beginner format

But the reality is that the game was already going that direction... so it wasn't Curry's fault and I was able to see the light that he fulfilled all my criteria and is RIGHT THERE WITH KOBE AND MJ

[HoopsNY]

How are the Cavs drafting Kyrie if LeBron never leaves and they don't become the worst team in the league? That immediately takes 2016 off the table. There's simply way too many what if's to assume if he never leaves Cleveland in 2010 he still ends up in L.A. with AD a decade later.

You're right. But even then, with Boston out of the picture, and no player empowerment movement propelling KD to GS, I think he still stands a good chance.

But you are correct. I didn't factor that in. The reasonable answer is, we just don't know.

[John8204]

I've got him ahead of Stockton, Dr J, Dirk, Hondo, CPIII, Shaq, Barkley, KG, AI, Gervin, Durant, Giannis

Right now I have him at 15...he can overtake Duncan, Moses, Olajuwon, Robertson, and West.

The only player behind him that can overtake him is Giannis

The four metrics that moves him up are...
5-6 rings
25K points
3rd MVP

[LeGoat4Life]

Top 5 ceiling

Majority of the fan base already have curry higher than Lebron already

Anything curry does right now is pure gravy

[Gohan]

Top 5 ceiling

Majority of the fan base already have curry higher than Lebron already

Anything curry does right now is pure gravy

Not only is curry over lebron i think most fans have the juggernaut, iverson over lebron too. Good post. Glad to see some knowledgeable posters on here

[Full Court]

Given how old he is, his ceiling is fringe top 5 barring a miracle.

Floor is 12-15ish, which is where he already is.

[Manny98]

GOAT and #10
This

[TheGoatest]

No one ever explains why.

No prob, I'll explain why:

2 MVPs (as many as Steve Nash)
1 Finals MVP (as many as Cedric Maxwell)
4 All-NBA 1st teams (fewer than Dwight Howard)
0 All-defensive teams (fewer than Avery Bradley)
His current combination of career totals and averages (aside from his 3 point record about as impressive as Carmelo Anthony)

Puts him in the Olajuwon-Kobe-Moses tier.

Realistically, even optimistically, he will not be able to add so much on top of these to put him above the Bird-Shaq-Wilt tier.

[Stephonit]

No prob, I'll explain why:

2 MVPs (as many as Steve Nash)
1 Finals MVP (as many as Cedric Maxwell)
4 All-NBA 1st teams (fewer than Dwight Howard)
0 All-defensive teams (fewer than Avery Bradley)
His current combination of career totals and averages (aside from his 3 point record about as impressive as Carmelo Anthony)

Puts him in the Olajuwon-Kobe-Moses tier.

Realistically, even optimistically, he will not be able to add so much on top of these to put him above the Bird-Shaq-Wilt tier.

Media awards weigh heavily in all-time rankings? Convince me you're not a lemming simply following whatever some marketing consultant wants you to believe.

[Hakeem Olajuwon]

Ceiling = below MJ, LeBron, Kareem

Floor = above Oscar, West, Dr J